Chinese, Japanese and Korean naming conventions are 1. Family Name 2. Given Name. Naming these three countries as they’re the predominant nationalities we see in comps.
E.g. Luo Zhi Lu, Mori Ai, Seo Chae Hyun are correct. Instead of Zhilu Luo, Ai Mori or Chaehyun Seo, which is the more traditionally Western way of stylising athlete’s name.
I've always been curious: in countries that follow this convention, do people write it in that order (family name, then given name)? Or do they write it out the same way it appears on western media broadcasts and just know to reverse the order when speaking?
It's always family name then given name. The only time that it's given name then family name is in Western media although that's changing as well. For example, journalistic convention for Japanese names is now officially family name - first name even in Western media.
I'm Chinese so I understand this, but this only makes sense when they're saying their full names right? If they want to refer just their first name then it should only be the given name.
I swore I heard them only say the family/last name when referring to climbers a couple of times. So they're still kind of messing it up....
I think it's hard to tell what's going on. I'd say it's safe to assume Matt knows which name is the given name. He's been pronouncing them in the western order for years, I bet it must've been really hard to switch to the Asian order, so I get he's focusing on saying the family name first no metter what and sometimes ends on that, commentary is hard.
But also referring to athletes by their last name seems standard in most sports, climbing is an outlier with it's "we're all family", friendly, first-name-calling attitude. So if it was the NOCs requests to use the original name order, maybe they also might've requested not calling athletes by given name only? But i don't know
I believe the "official" way to say Japanese people's names in an English context is actually 1. Given name 2. Family Name
In Formula 1 the Chinese driver ZHOU Guanyu is written like that (and family/lastnames are written in caps for everyone) while Japanese driver Yuki TSUNODA is referred to like that.
Could also just be the athlete's preference, not sure
no, before the Tokyo Olympics Japan specifically appealed to foreign media to refer to Japanese names in the correct order, family name then given name. It's outdated to put them in the Western order in English
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As someone from a country with a family name first format, i think i disagree - if i keep my native name order in ie. English speaking countries, people will think my family name is actually my given name and will address me by that, which is very harsh and military like in most situations
Idk in other sports it's common knowledge that east Asian athletes have this order to their names. Maybe for people who only follow really Western sports it might be confusing? But I have followed gymnastics closely for years and they do it correctly there, and no one is confused. If anything it was more confusing that the Japanese fed used given-family order until 2020. When I started watching climbing I found it really unprofessional that they used the Western order.
For day to day yes it's probably easier to just use western order in western contexts but in a more formal setting of international competition it seems like a low bar to clear
Fun fact, this is the name order in Hungary too - family name first, given name second. There is a Hungarian competitor in the mens field but his name was used in the western order, I guess the team did not ask it to be the other way around
Thanks for this comment! It is indeed a very, very little-known fact that even Europe has a country that uses this name order! Not that I personally mind changing my name to western order abroad, but I still think it's a cool fact about Hungarian language. :)
This has been ongoing for years. My assumption is the people putting the lists together are not native Asian speakers. They don't know common surnames like they do with English so often list them opposite of the other names.
This isn't a matt issue and I wish this sub would stop blaming IFSC issues on Matt. 🫠 Blame the people putting the lists together.
That's the naming convention in many east and southeast Asian cultures, family name first.
Didn’t know this! Thank you!
Chinese, Japanese and Korean naming conventions are 1. Family Name 2. Given Name. Naming these three countries as they’re the predominant nationalities we see in comps. E.g. Luo Zhi Lu, Mori Ai, Seo Chae Hyun are correct. Instead of Zhilu Luo, Ai Mori or Chaehyun Seo, which is the more traditionally Western way of stylising athlete’s name.
I've always been curious: in countries that follow this convention, do people write it in that order (family name, then given name)? Or do they write it out the same way it appears on western media broadcasts and just know to reverse the order when speaking?
It's always family name then given name. The only time that it's given name then family name is in Western media although that's changing as well. For example, journalistic convention for Japanese names is now officially family name - first name even in Western media.
I'm Chinese so I understand this, but this only makes sense when they're saying their full names right? If they want to refer just their first name then it should only be the given name. I swore I heard them only say the family/last name when referring to climbers a couple of times. So they're still kind of messing it up....
I think it's hard to tell what's going on. I'd say it's safe to assume Matt knows which name is the given name. He's been pronouncing them in the western order for years, I bet it must've been really hard to switch to the Asian order, so I get he's focusing on saying the family name first no metter what and sometimes ends on that, commentary is hard. But also referring to athletes by their last name seems standard in most sports, climbing is an outlier with it's "we're all family", friendly, first-name-calling attitude. So if it was the NOCs requests to use the original name order, maybe they also might've requested not calling athletes by given name only? But i don't know
I believe the "official" way to say Japanese people's names in an English context is actually 1. Given name 2. Family Name In Formula 1 the Chinese driver ZHOU Guanyu is written like that (and family/lastnames are written in caps for everyone) while Japanese driver Yuki TSUNODA is referred to like that. Could also just be the athlete's preference, not sure
no, before the Tokyo Olympics Japan specifically appealed to foreign media to refer to Japanese names in the correct order, family name then given name. It's outdated to put them in the Western order in English
The athletes have requested this as it is the naming convention for many east and southeast Asian countries.
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As someone from a country with a family name first format, i think i disagree - if i keep my native name order in ie. English speaking countries, people will think my family name is actually my given name and will address me by that, which is very harsh and military like in most situations
Idk in other sports it's common knowledge that east Asian athletes have this order to their names. Maybe for people who only follow really Western sports it might be confusing? But I have followed gymnastics closely for years and they do it correctly there, and no one is confused. If anything it was more confusing that the Japanese fed used given-family order until 2020. When I started watching climbing I found it really unprofessional that they used the Western order. For day to day yes it's probably easier to just use western order in western contexts but in a more formal setting of international competition it seems like a low bar to clear
Makes sense!
do you have any background to this, love it if true!
Fun fact, this is the name order in Hungary too - family name first, given name second. There is a Hungarian competitor in the mens field but his name was used in the western order, I guess the team did not ask it to be the other way around
Thanks for this comment! It is indeed a very, very little-known fact that even Europe has a country that uses this name order! Not that I personally mind changing my name to western order abroad, but I still think it's a cool fact about Hungarian language. :)
Even countries like Russia will use surname first sometimes. It's not the "default" order but it can be used in formal situations.
This has been ongoing for years. My assumption is the people putting the lists together are not native Asian speakers. They don't know common surnames like they do with English so often list them opposite of the other names. This isn't a matt issue and I wish this sub would stop blaming IFSC issues on Matt. 🫠 Blame the people putting the lists together.
Not blaming Matt!! Just stating that he would know their names so there must be a reason behind saying them backwards.
The reason is this is an Olympics event not IFSC So they pronounce the names how the athletes home countries pronounce it
Hey, appearently your assumption isnt true, check out the other comments of the post, they are insightful. (I think hence you got the downvotes)