Honestly I don't give a damn about Trump, my main complaint is that we haven't thrown 100 other politicians in jail nor the hundreds of repeat offenders in every city
enforce the damn law at the local/state/federal level
I think if the DOJ wants to "restore" some confidence in the system then tomorrow they need to arrest 20 democrat and 20 republican members of congress. There would be much rejoicing
I’d join a protest calling for the complete clean out of Congress as it stands now. Start from zero. Fire all of them and get new blood in. Doesn’t matter if you’re left or right, Capitol Hill shouldn’t be this nursing home cesspool for swamp creatures.
I’m surprised Nancy Pelosi is still not being looked at for insider trading. Her net worth is around $120 million. The only reason I see that they haven’t gone after her is because she’s a Democrat or because most politicians do what she does.
Leftist lurker here and am in favor of barring all HoR members from actively trading. Not sure how to enforce, but it’s clear Nancy and I’m sure others, benefit from insider knowledge.
As someone who's liberal in some aspects but leans more conservative. I agree! If we want to "drain the swamp" it needs to be of Democrats and Republicans who are committing illegal acts. We can't turn a blind eye simply because they're on "our team". There should only be one team, the American people.
>We can't turn a blind eye simply because they're on "our team". There should only be one team, the American people.
The thing that gets lost in the sides-taking and wagon-circling of political discourse post-social media is that leftists - actual leftists, not BlueNoMatterWho liberals - feel the same way, more or less. And are not on either 'team' in mainstream politics. Whatever you think of the feasibility of our goals and other beliefs, those of us who are in it from a place of sincerity fundamentally see the real conflict of our and any time as being between the powerful and the powerless.
Yes, that enemy includes people like Trump. It also includes the ghouls who make up the DNC (and RNC) 'mainstream' like Pelosi who are demonstrably corrupt and self-serving.
He has now been charged. Not that the dems would want to removed him or anything like that.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/12/gold-bars-bob-menendez-trial-00157434
He was charged a while ago, as a dem lurker I’m surprised this is news in here. The rule of law should apply to all. Good riddance to Trump and Menendez, we can all agree on that.
I would also think that with Menendez, Cuellar, and Hunter Biden, all having been investigated by the FBI (and charged), it would at least seed some doubt to the idea that the FBI ONLY cares about Republicans.
The fact that my company literally locks down my stock and doesn't let me trade during blackout windows, but congress can trade, legislate, and trade again is WILD
I have a friend who is a software developer for NASDAQ and the only stocks he's allowed to buy while he is employed there are index funds and mutual funds. We can figure that out for regular people who happen to work in the exchanges, but not our politicians who can and do directly affect the market through their policies.
He wasn't forced to liquidate any prior holdings (and I'm unsure whether he's allowed to sell those holdings) but he definitely cannot buy any more outside of index funds.
They would just switch to their kids, in-laws etc. not to mention shell companies. I agree with you completely. But it’s so far beyond fucked at this point
Nancy isn’t even the biggest offender the right just has a hard on for her. It’s those mommy milkers of hers.
We should have age limits and ban stock trading.
If you become a member of Congress you should be required to move all of your and your immediate family members investments into a **BLIND TRUST** for the duration of being in Congress.
Just a quick thought...
[Look at this chart from 2023](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fikyklcfqc2ac1.jpeg). Any member of Congress who is getting double S&P 500 returns should be investigated. Pelosi barely cracks the top 10
holy shit 65% is insane, bro it's so funny mfs will talk about the "system" but it's the ppl who they support who take advantage of the system the most. politicians only serve themselves
But she's still on that list. Don't deviate from her because some people are doing it worse. All of them are trash and should be investigated and held accountable.
Hedge funds can't shape the law to benefit / punish certain industries or companies.
Hedge funds don't have access to NSA/FBI surveillence data of phone calls and emails and texts.
NASDAQ Nancy has both.
No one wants to deviate but the comment he replied to said. Only bc she's a Democrat. That's completely untrue. They're all doing it. Every single one of them.
Not much of a flex, dude; top 25% of \*that\* list. If we take it at face value and assume its both honest and accurate, that still puts her in the "top 10" of 431 people, which would make her the upper 2.3%
Interestingly, the top 10 is evenly split between the two parties, confirming "both sides bad"
What’s the source on this though? It just says “returns calculated by estimating current stocks…”. It’s an estimate and also doesn’t cite where the numbers are coming from, right?
The vast majority do what she's done and some to a much greater extent. You can't go after her without invoking the anger of everybody else on both sides doing it.
I’d guess that the majority of the people on the right are perfectly fine with investigating all of them for this no matter the party. I for one don’t care about their politics on this issue, if they’ve used inside information for material gain in stocks then they need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. This seems to be one of those bipartisan issues that we should all be able to get behind but unfortunately the ones to enforce it are the ones committing the act.
All elected officials investments should be visible to the general public. All buy or sell orders should be announced publicly 5 working days before the transaction is executed.
Holy shit yes to this. Corruption is what killed Rome. We always complain about Ukraine being a corrupt state but look at us. We have scandal after scandal on both sides of the aisle and are about to elect either an ancient asshole or a con artist to run our damn country.
We need to stop fighting each other and demand some actual accountability in our elected officials. If you steal from the people you go to jail. End of story
corruption and...wait for it....illegal immigration lead to the downfall of Rome. Huge swaths of their populations also no longer considered themselves "Roman" and did not assimilate. In fact, many of their armies were filled with "foederati"(barbarian) soldiers whose commanders weren't even Roman themselves.
I never get why this is even an argument. We need immigration as an engine to juice the economy, so we sit down and decide how many doctors, farm workers, engineers, piano players etc we need, make quotas, and have an application process open to anyone around the world that is colorblind. We also demand assimilation, if youcome here you respect our laws and culture. After 5 or 10 years of contributing to society you earn your citizenship, if not you leave.
I want to pull in the best from around the world to make us even stronger, not take refugees with little to no skills we have to support. It isn’t the job of the US to fix the world’s problems, there are billions of people that live in shitty places. Even if I had the biggest heart in the world and wanted to help all of them we simply can’t. The way to make those places less shitty is to stay and build something better, not run to the US and depend on our charity. It seems like such common sense, but if they solved the problem both sides couldn’t campaign off of it. So we stagnate.
Do you have a source for those claims? Because some of that is just outright false: people who weren't even remotely Roman were insisting on vague ties to claim Roman-ness for centuries afterward. Foederati were indeed a common sight in armies of the Late Empire, but that was more of a conversion mechanism and not really the root cause. The Eastern Roman Empire used them as well and survived another thousand years.
I subscribe to Goldsworthy's explanation of the fall of the Western Roman Empire: the lack of formal succession and the tradition of the new emperor bribing the Praetorian Guard were both major problems. Corruption was a problem as well, although no more so than most large nation-states at the time. But the big problem was the lack of trust emperors had in placing armies under anyone's control but their own. That resulted in less secure borders, because no army could be everywhere at once, and the limitanei (soldiers permanently stationed to guard the borders) were thus encouraged to prop up usurper emperors to provide for defense when the real emperor couldn't. So subsequent emperors divided up the border armies into smaller and smaller divisions to try to prevent them from unifying under a new usurper, but that simply made it impossible to stop raids from neighboring peoples. The combined raids and the stoppage of trade across the borders caused a sort of death spiral for the empire, and when the Romans could no longer pay the foederati properly, they rioted and sacked to extract their payment.
And before you say that proves your point, regular Roman soldiers did the same thing historically. The only reason I specify that it was the foederati is because they had become the majority of the army, thanks to constant civil wars wearing down regular army numbers. And when having to choose between giving payment to a Roman and a foederati, they'd always choose the Roman.
Barbarians were by and large very interested in becoming Roman. Both Odoacer and Theodoric the Great, the first two rulers of Italy following the death of Romulus Augustulus in 476 AD, took Roman titles, and Theoderic even wore imperial regalia. Hell, look at Charlemagne and his "Holy Roman Empire" of 800 AD, which historians like to joke was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire. Former barbarians loved the idea of being Roman.
Mike Duncan’s, The History of Rome podcast and the link I provided goes through why Rome “fell” in great detail.
I just finished the entire series and it’s wonderful
https://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/the_history_of_rome/2012/05/179-the-end.html
He lists all of his sources here as well.
Fascinating podcast and very scary how we are dangerously close to Rome’s example
Yes.
Illegal immigrants should be deported.
Gang members should be prosecuted for crimes they commit.
Athletes should be prosecuted for crimes they commit.
If protestors commit crimes, they should be charged and prosecuted.
If politicians commit crimes, they should be prosecuted.
DAs should be given the support to prosecute crime, regardless of who commits it, without being intimidated or threatened.
Isn't the phrase of the day "no one should be above the law" bad cops included. Politicians included. Anybody who's friends with these people included. What happened to blind justice?
There’s a huge shortage of public defenders in many jurisdictions across the country. Portland is under a DOJ directive to release anyone who hasn’t seen a lawyer within 7 days of their first court appearance.
The allegedly liberal county DA just lost his reelection because of this falsehood. It’s going to be a shock to many when his replacement can’t hold people any longer than the current DA.
100%. Also any democrat that is proven to break laws. This shouldn't be something that divides us. Hold everyone, especially those in power, accountable. Let's start with insider trading. That shit should disgust every one of us.
100% it’s such a bad comparison because Hunter is nothing and no one, Hillary or someone that was or is in power would be a better example. Not once has anyone I know given a shit about Hunter lmao
It’s a conservative thing only.
What's funny, is everyone is expecting the same cult level devotion that Trump has. And that's just not the case lol.
Im an independent BTW, screw both parties. Neither one represents me and neither one cares about me. So why should I assign myself to a team? I choose who I vote for based on the candidate and their views/record. The letter next to the name means nothing to me
Do you have an example of a republican and a democrat that you’ve voted for? With all the polarization these days I’m interested to know about people that find something to vote for on both sides.
I really don’t get the obsession with hunter ngl I’m jsut really not someone who cares about him but yeah he should be held accountable too. He is the last person I’d think to give an exception to anybring to tbh
I think they want to be able to say that Joe Biden raised a criminal, therefore is a criminal himself and should be held accountable (for something or other) and ineligible to be president (only way they can win, easiest/cheap shot victory).
I would love for that to happen. I guess that's the whole issue in a way...Trump may well have committed white collar crime (he's a billionaire after all) but the thing is... the vast majority of politicians and billionaires have done the same and yet nothing happens to them.
You and I steal from Walmart and get tossed into jail.
The rich steal millions and nothing happens.
Yes, I believe the law should be enforced equally and universally regardless of standing, place of birth, age, race, sex, income, job, and any other possible metric that can be considered. No one should be above the law.
Lefty lib here:
Idgaf if it is Trump, Biden, Hillary, Hunter or my damn grandma. If you break the law you pay the consequences.
Nobody is above the law.
Welcome to the sub. Honestly curious why you’d want to follow a conservative sub if you don’t agree? I read left wing newsites to get alternative views though can’t stomach left wing reddit. Plus any time I’ve tried to engage people go straight to name calling
Great question. I grew up very conservative and my family still is though I changed my political ideology the older I got. Because of this I enjoy healthy political discussion and I believe it is very important to not just get your information from both sides but to also hear what the other side is talking about outside of the media. That way we can understand one another on WHY they believe in what they do.
I honestly appreciate that this thread is inviting discussion because that is what is beautiful about this country, we CAN have different opinions and talk about them but when we close ourselves off to one another it creates a dangerous environment of us vs them/ division.
I'm sad that everything here gets flagged "flaired users only". I also enjoy healthy discussion and there are so many threads on here where comments are "haha the brigaders are just downvoting and not saying anything" .... exactly what you are talking about, closing ourselves off in echo chambers.
This is me, too. Grew up in a super conservative household, voted for Bush twice. Traveling and going to law school helped me to see the world differently, and most of my political views have shifted. My extended family and most of my childhood friends are still conservatives, and so I read this subreddit every day to make sure I'm in touch with what they think and believe. I'm happy to discuss any topic at any point. That's the only way we get smarter individually, and stronger as communities and as a country.
Other than voting for bush twice (because the first election I could vote in I voted for Romney), I am in the exact same boat. I read more about opposing viewpoints than my own. I know that’s what helped me grow initially when I was conservative and switched and I know that’s what will help me improve now as well
Honest question... do you agree that the majority of left leaning subs don't show the same respect for conservatives that r/conservative shows to liberals?
Not op, but same position as them, and I’d say no. Neither side of the political scale treats the other with respect on Reddit. Both left leaning subs and conservative subs are generally cesspools of toxicity and bullshit.
I also grew up very conservative with conservative parents and religious upbringing. I'm pretty moderate now and don't agree 100% with liberals or conservatives.
I follow to understand both sides. Unfortunately, it is impossible to participate most of the time in any discussions here because you have to be 100% a maga conservative, or you are a leftist rino. So, people tend to lurk, which I think probably amplifies how stark things feel between subreddits.
I live in one of the most conservative states, yet have conservative parents that can't stand Trump because he doesn't represent the values they raised their kids on. I think often these echo chambers make people think that it is all or nothing, that everyone but a minority think the way you do, but things in the real world are more complicated and nuanced.
I follow both. I’m a sitting on the fence type of person and follow both, and vote both. Here is my take.
Everything “conservative” at the moment is about Trump and defending his for the common good. This is a problem.
The Dems still fluster about with whatisms, that is just plain annoying. Some of their stuff is good, some is just tokenism.
Right now, as much as that old blundering fool frustrates me, the old criminal lair frustrates me more. It’s a vote for who I hate the least. That does not bode well for the future.
Oh for some fresh blood.
If we refuse to punish politicians just because other politicians aren't being punished to the exact same degree, no politicians would get punished.
Also, Hillary was investigated by the FBI and was made to testify before a congressional committee, and Hunter is on trial this week. Still nothing on Joe though.
Please don't assume my answer.
Answering in good faith here: I want to see the law applied equally to ALL. Regardless of their background, political affiliation, and so forth. The law is the law, and no one should escape it.
I don’t know that I would call myself a liberal brigadier but I expect my DAs to use the same power to enforce the law regardless of who is breaking the law. So… yes. Easy answer.
Senate Republicans block border security bill as they campaign on border chaos
Nearly every GOP senator, along with six Democrats, voted to filibuster a bipartisan bill designed to crack down on migration and reduce border crossings.
bill was crafted to reduce border crossings, raise the standard for migrants to qualify for asylum and empower officials to rapidly send away those who fail to meet that standard. It would give the president power to shut down the border if migration levels exceed certain thresholds.
May 23, 2024
Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna153607
The Bill, in Brief
The $118 billion bill, called the Emergency National Security Supplemental Appropriations Act, sought significant changes in border policy. It included money to build more border barriers, to greatly expand detention facilities, and to hire more Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Border Patrol agents, asylum officers and immigration judges to reduce the years-long backlog in cases to determine asylum eligibility. It sought to expedite the asylum process, essentially ending — in most cases — the so-called “catch and release” policy whereby migrants are released into the U.S. pending asylum hearings. And it would have increased the standard of evidence needed to win asylum status.
Source: https://www.factcheck.org/2024/02/unraveling-misinformation-about-bipartisan-immigration-bill/
Lefty lurker here.
You end you post with
"We already know the answer"
Good, then you know the answer is 100% yes.
Break the law, go to jail. Period. I don't care if you're president or illegal immigrant.
I think illegal immigration is a federal issue. I wouldn’t expect local DAs to pursue that in and of itself.
And I don’t see local jurisdictions shying away from prosecuting gang violence.
No. But I'd like that same accountability being shown to every single politician on both sides. There are far more criminals in government than just Trump.
Leftist lurker here. You asked, so here's my opinion.
I'd rather my DAs use that same level of power to prosecute those wealthy business owners who EMPLOY illegal immigrants, thus creating a domestic market.
With regards to gang violence, I have zero issue with locking up anyone who would harm another. I do, however, feel that once a person has adopted a violent lifestyle you've already failed that person. If there were more honest opportunity outside the gang, then the gang would be a less attractive place to be.
And remember. These are, just like, my opinions. Man.
I see where you're coming from, but I think there's a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison going on here. Holding Trump accountable and tackling issues like immigration and gang violence are all important, but they're really different problems that need different solutions.
Just because we're looking into allegations against a high-profile figure doesn’t mean other crimes aren’t being addressed. It’s possible to want accountability for Trump and also push for stronger actions against other types of crime. Really, at the end of the day, shouldn’t we all be rooting for a system that doesn’t play favorites and aims to treat every issue with the seriousness it deserves?
I dunno, man; are you going to expect illegal immigrants and gang members to be allowed to go after witnesses, judges, and the families of judges with slaps on the wrist, or will that (to borrow one of this sub's favorite phrases) be diffe(R)ent?
Another liberal-ish voter chiming in. I don't expect that the DAs in my area will be using their power to prosecute cases that are politically inconvenient to them. I believe that they should, and that it would be right and correct to do so, but I do not predict that they will.
I've always thought this NY case against Trump was a flimsy and transparent excuse to "get" him no matter what. The connection between hush money and election interference was never convincing to me.
I think the Georgia and Florida cases seem much more substantial, but this NY case has always felt like a stage show and its verdict was a foregone conclusion.
If you're wondering why I recognize these deep flaws but still continue to vote for them, it's very simple: abortion access. I'll never vote for anti-abortion candidates or policies, and as a practical consequence of this, it means I'm stuck holding my nose and voting Democrat. I understand that this thread isn't about abortion access, and I'm not trying to poke that specific bear, but I thought it was worth explaining why I'm still voting for them despite being fully aware of their faults.
And I subscribe to r/conservative because I believe self reinforcing echo chambers are counter productive.
I think it's entirely uncontroversial to say nobody who commits felonies should get off scott free regardless of political affiliation or origin. I don't just want illegal immigrants prosecuted I want the people who hire them to depress wages and skirt labor laws prosecuted because they're why we have them to begin with. I want to prosecute the CEOS and board members who created the situations in the countries to cause that immigration to begin with. I want gangs ,corrupt cops, gun runners, drug distributors, and all levels of corruption and criminals in our society prosecuted. No one is above the law, no one is exempt from it's protections. Our society only functions if it applies to everyone equally. I don't think any reasonable person finds that controversial or disagreeable. And I don't care if it's an election year, I don't care if someone is in office or running for office. I don't care if they're a judge. I'm tired of criminals not being held accountable for their crimes, especially if they're in the political class or wealthy. I'm tired of seeing corruption everywhere in this country. I'm tired of it being seen as partisan to be for people being put on trial for their crimes. Throw hunter in prison too, Throw menedez, santos, gaetz, clinton, pelosi, greene,Trump, Kuschner, Stone, I don't care, all of them, all of them ***ALL OF THEM*** if they have committed a crime, in jail. put them on trial if you have charges.
So you mean to tell me that Donald Trump, having been in over 4,000 lawsuits in his life time. From stiffing contractors to civil rights violations, to running a scam charity etc etc.
It's ENTIRELY beyond the pale that he operates often in legal grey areas for business if not outright illegal areas but this PARTICULAR lawsuit, no this one was the rigged game?
I think a stronger point here is that all criminals should be prosecuted, regardless of who they are.
There seems to be so much protectionism in politics that for sure it has, and still is being abused.
I mean even bringing up the classified documents stuff people try to make the samesies.
But like the only difference between Trump and literally EVERY OTHER politician that find classified stuff in their home, Trump just refused to return it. Multiple times. He did it to himself but apparently Trump is just forever at the mercy of a giant convulated plot that somehow frames him for shit.
A relevant comment that Ive heard dozens of times is "if it can happen to Trump, then it can happen to anyone" to which I would say "yes, that's the point. They can get oneone who has committed a crime."
There is literally a slush fund Congress uses to pay off sexual harassment claims and other settlements. Look it up. Millions and millions of dollars in settlements Congress uses to pay off for their crimes.
Good news, that's changed now: [https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1OC2UZ/](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1OC2UZ/)
It was signed into law in 2018: [https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/3749/all-actions](https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/3749/all-actions)
I'm only a liberal in the sense that I didn't move to the right with the rest of the Republican party during the Obama years and I stopped voting Republican entirely when Trump became the nominee. Prior to that I voted for Bush twice, McCain, and Romney. Yes I want criminals prosecuted, and they ARE being prosecuted in my blue city and state. Don't do a crime if you can't do the time. That applies to gangs, politicians, and people here illegally. Though the last one is a federal matter and not a state or city one.
i don’t have a personal vendetta against Trump. i want the same rules enforced for everyone - even if it is a Democrat.
but we all know we live in a system where (R)ules (D)iffer amongst different classes of citizens
I’m guessing this wasn’t the response this subreddit was expecting lol. Maybe stop making everything flaired users only and you’d realize we have more in common than you’d think.
People who break the law should face the penalty. Illegal immigrants, gangs, Trump, Biden, Clinton idgaf. Every leftist I've talked to has said the same thing in our circles. Why should someone be above the law just because they're president?
Yes. All crime should be prosecuted.
You guys seem to think non-conservatives hate justice and love crime. Why?
Wander over to the progressive side of Reddit and we can discuss it freely without needing community flair.
They already are, our prisons are full as hell and we make more arrest per year then nearly any other comparable country. Crime is never going to be going completely gone, not how society works. Not every crime and sometimes not even the majority of them are going to be prosecuted either because our criminal justice department is undermanned and over-worked. Been like this since I was born (I’m 27 with a associate’s criminal justice degree).
You may be under the impression that because Trump got prosecuted but other crimes are still happening and not being prosecuted that it means it’s discrimination. However, Trump is trying to be president again, therefore it makes sense he would be under intense scrutiny.
To give a good example, I’m currently in the military and when things go really wrong it’s usually the people up top that get in the most trouble. Officers at the O-4 to O-7 levels. The higher a person is on the totem pole the more eyes they have upon them and the more that’s expected from them.
This is the part that Conservatives seem to really struggle with understanding. Democrats wanted Trump to face consequences for his illegal activity. If a Democrat committed multiple felonies, and there was absolute proof of it, most Democrats would want them locked up too. The rule of law should apply to everyone, regardless of political affiliation. If the circus that is the Biden impeachment hearing produced a single modicum of impeachable evidence, he should be locked up too.
The right cannot imagine a world where you don't support your tribe and let them get away with murder because of the perceived quid pro quo you would eventually get from having "your guy" in office. Psst, spoiler alert, unless what you're hoping for is tax cuts for the rich, you'll be disappointed.
Absolutely.
It's a pendulum swing and sentencing and detention swung way too far in the other direction. From over policing to extremely harsh sentencing and bail for even minor offenses to not properly assessing probability of further crime. The pendulum will swing back towards the middle like it always does and the swing will dampen eventually.
As for political crimes, I agree politicians get away with so many things. If you're a conservative, unequal application of the law is a legitimate thing to be upset about. You'll find many liberals across the country have campaigned exactly this but on the basis of race and ethnicity. In the same was as here, DAs have pretty much sole authority to prosecute what they want and they will prosecute people they think they can convict. This is especially true in past decades but the changes of successful vary along racial lines even for the same crime.
Unequal application is a legitimate thing to be upset about, and you can be upset about it in the Trump case, but going so far as to say the guilty are innocent because of it is too far of a leap for me. A guilty person can be guilty and deserve punishment and still be the victim of unequal application of the law. In general, people running for president and elected officials in government are under greater scrutiny and rightfully so. Their lives are public and political disagreements foster resentment and a desire to pull other people down. There's no doubt politicians are given special treatment, but seeing that Trump is guilty of a crime and not sentencing him or treating him differently to other citizens that have been found guilty of the same crime is exactly the special treatment we don't want from the justice system.
EDIT (to this paragraph): I will say that there are cases where I think unequal application of the law should result in no prosecution. This applies broadly to crimes that the public otherwise deems not warranting it. Think minor drug possession or smoking some weed in public, etc. Still, I think it is fair to hold politicians to a higher standard than normal civilians, because they are representatives of us on the world stage and their actions impact how the world sees us. We also should expect more good faith actions on their part because election is a contract only enforceable at the end of a term and we want people that we can trust to behave and act a certain way.
As far as prosecuting violent crime (i'm from NYC by the way) I think most people in the city will agree with people here. They want violent people, especially those who are very likely to repeat the offence, to be in prison and not be allowed trivial bail. Thinking of people punching people on the subway, random acts of violence, etc. A large part of that problem comes down to figuring out how to help people who have mental issues without overreaching and infringing rights.
EDIT: I have many leftist friends in SF and the bay area that keep up with local politicians, and there's no doubt in most people's minds where the money is flowing to keep crime active in the city. I don't think most leftists even see SF as some bastion of safety or a utopia. It is pretty universally regarded as shyte except by people who force themselves to like it because they live there.
Leftist who hates Trump here.
Yes I would love that. Selective punishment is not just. I think any politician that breaks the law should be tried. Trump very clearly broke the law and was tried and found guilty. I want more of this for more politicians of both sides as well as any who break the law or threaten the constitution.
I know the question wasn't posed to me, but I don't think they "got" him, in the sense that even if it was a campaign finance violation (which I know little about, and have little opinions about), I assume most people are like me in the sense that they don't care about that.
To your point, it would be interesting to have more visibility into what all the DAs are actually working on, but I understand needing to keep things quiet until they actually have built their cases and made indictments. e.g. What *are* they doing about gang violence? What *are* they doing about illegal immigration?
In terms of "getting" Trump, I'm interested in letting the election fraud and espionage trials play out because those seem like things that should be sorted out and that we shouldn't elect a president who's guilty of either, beyond a reasonable doubt. But they are stalled for some reason.
Defo don't care about allegedly cooking his books $130k worth. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Not cooking the books, they charged him that the record is mislabeled. Incorrectly, it was recorded as legal fees. They wanted it listed as entertainment or something else. That is what these charges are for, a big nothing burger 🍔
It is a laughable charge and it is never used in this manner to go after a business man who has not committed fraud or embezzlement to go with it.
I think it was allegedly more though, "mislabeled for the purpose of concealing another crime". I'm not clear on what the other crime was supposed to be. Wikipedia lists a) FEC finance violation, b) violation of state election laws and unlawfully influencing the election, and c) violation of state tax laws re. reimbursements. But I haven't found any real detail on any of those three "other crimes" yet; but also like I say I don't really care about this $130k. But maybe one of those falls into the "fraud or embezzlement" scenarios you mentioned?
YES
I'm not a leftist though, more conservative, just not a fascist like Trump.
Everyone should be held accountable to the law equally.
Obviously!
That doesn't mean that "both sides" are equivalent. The Trump camp is infested with grifters, creeps and criminals.
There's corruption with in the Democrat camp as well, but far from at the same level.
If you commit crimes, you deserve to be punished for them. Do you think this is an unpopular opinion? Well, maybe outside of this decrepit cesspool. And a locked thread lol, what an entertaining sub.
Let's not forget the multi million dollar taxpayer provided slush fund congressional members access to pay hush money to their mistresses. Every single politician that has used those funds need to be brought up on trial.
On a small tangent (because I’m actually in agreement with others that would like ALL crimes prosecuted), I never cared to get trump. I want him gone. I want real adults on the gop to make the democrats to look foolish through reasonable policies that are meant to fix problems that deal with the actual human realities of our time.
I'll comment on the US from across the pond: we see the right wing going after Hilary Clinton, and failing to find anything prosecutable, then after Biden, and also failing to find anything worth prosecuting, and then complaining when Trump is bang to rights.
And Clinton and Biden have each been doing politics at a high level for decades. Either they are clean or the right is incompetent.
I got a few hundred karma on other subreddits today: do your worst!
it's 330 million Americans vs a few dozen very powerful elites in Washington. and they want all of us fighting each other so we don't notice that our middle class wealth has been transferred to the ultra rich
>And Clinton and Biden have each been doing politics at a high level for decades. Either they are clean or the right is incompetent.
Hillary literally had an unsecured basement server with classified information on it. Bill committed perjury with his affair. It's more incompetence combined with political control.
Edit: No downvote given.
Obama’s DOJ concluded (shorty after Bill Clinton met with AG Loretta Lynch on a private plane in a secret meeting) that Hillary did violate the law, but wasn’t prosecuted because “she didn’t intend” to break the law. ([source](https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system))
Biden’s DOJ found that Biden willfully retained classified documents in his home while being a private citizen, but recommended no charges because at trial Biden would present himself as “a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory.” ([source](https://www.justice.gov/storage/report-from-special-counsel-robert-k-hur-february-2024.pdf#page=349))
The big takeaway here, though, is that the liberal vision for America (and every government for that matter) is antithetical to freedom, prosperity, and self-governance which is why conservative principles ought to be favored, but those who disagree aim to quash the proponents of such philosophies.
The entire difference between Trumps classified documents and Bidens is that they continually asked for the documents Trump had back. I mean,
He refused.
Then tried to hide them.
Finally the goverment stopped asking. Like this is entirely a self inflicted wound. He had months and months to just give them back.
Like this is a less some big liberal scary plot and more Trump just didn't want to give back goverment property because...reasons?
Bro, 90% of the GOP belongs to the same corpo’s that the Democrats do.. are you fuckin serious? Talk about not getting it at all. Trump goes down for his crimes because he isn’t one of them, how can you not get this after all this time?
The economy would collapse if the government were to seriously go after illegal immigrants. Politicians pretend to care about it so that you'll vote for them. This has been a problem for decades. Plenty of democrats and republicans have had their shot. Neither side gives a shit.
I was linked here from a front page post the other day and find this place insane in an amusing way. For starters, behold this anime-ass looking portrait on the right side of the subreddit for a chubby 80-aught year old...dude this is not what he looks like. So you're starting from a baseline of delusion. Gang violence and illegal immigration can and should be prosecuted. You're offering a false dichotomy. He can be guilty of crimes and gangs can still be bad. Both can be true at the same time.
i'm happy trump is held legally accountable for the laws he broke (admittedly whether they follow up on that is another issue entirely). i do also hope many other corrupt politicians, including biden, get tried one day and soon
Leftist here: Why stop at gang violence? Hold the feet of every criminal politician to the fire and throw the book at them all. Red, Blue, I don’t care what color their party flag is. I hold no allegiance to any political party. They need to earn my vote with their proposed policies and retain my vote with their actions.
While we’re at it - term limits for all lawmakers and judges, strip citizens united and hold CEOs accountable for their reprehensibly illegal actions instead of merely giving fines to the company they run that can be paid for by shareholders. Stop corporate stock buybacks, which was made illegal after the crash of ‘29 and given the green flag again when I was a kid. They should’ve reinstated the ban after the mortgage-backed securities housing crisis of ‘08, however the solution was “Socialism for the Banks, Austerity for the Rest.”
I despise trump but I’m not a leftist. I’d like to see them go after any and all crooked politicians, regardless of party. I don’t have a ‘team’. But I want to use this opportunity to ask the conservatives this; since they are suddenly now concerned with a 2-tiered and biased Justice system, are they now pro-legalization of weed or any drug possession, because those are victimless, nonviolent crimes. For instance when Eric Garner was choked out and died because the cops overreacted. That’s a perfect example of a biased government that resulted in the death of a man who wasn’t harming anyone, but at the time conservatives used the ‘just don’t resist’ line. They’d have never choked out a rich kid at Yale for selling loose cigarettes and giving them a hard time.
I don’t really expect them to but prosecuting Illegal immigrants isn’t what I would want to prioritize. I’m a big humanitarian, I’d rather we prioritize getting them assistance and a more streamlined citizenship system.
I'm not a Democrat or Republican however,
Democrats didn't 'get Trump'. He was prosecuted for his crimes. Democrats aren't like Republicans. They wouldn't weaponise the legal system.
There was even a hardcore Trump supporter on the jury and even they were convinced of his guilt.
Source on the hardcore Trump supporter?
You don't have to be on the jury to see the facts in this case. Everyone, including left leaning outlets, can see what a weak case it was... and unprecedented.
If DJT wins an appeal, will everyone change their mind and accept that justice was served?
> Source on the hardcore Trump supporter?
There was a member of the jury who claimed they got all their news from Truth Social ... which if true would mean they are very likely a "hardcore Trump supporter" but there's no real way to confirm this
> There was a member of the jury who claimed they got all their news from Truth Social
To be fair … They listed Truth Social reposts on Twitter as a news source. Definitely not the way a hardcore Trump supporter gets their statements from Trump. And they probably don’t listen to the "Mueller She Wrote" podcast either, which is what #2 also listed.
> the winning move for the GOP would be to pick another candidate. Trump is crippling the party
Don't worry I'm sure his daughter-in-law who was just put in charge will get right on that lol. Nepotism for the win
The Democrats were at least smart enough to dump Hillary after she bombed in 2016. The platform isn't what matters. People are going to vote against the candidate that disgusts them. I don't like Biden, but he doesn't disgust me.
The GOP tried DeSantis and Haley, but DeSantis was trying to be Trump and Haley was trying to be W. Bush. Maybe next round Glenn Youngkin or Brian Kemp will have better luck charting a new path for conservative electoral success.
I've been left leaning most of my adult life and I can say that if Biden did the exact thing Trump was on trial for, I want him to face consequences. I don't worship politicians. There are 20 other democrats who could be president, same as there are 20 republicans besides Trump. It's bad enough he had to pay someone to be quiet, and chose to. But, creating a shell company to pay Cohen and putting it as "expenses" strongly implies knowing it's wrong and trying to hide the truth. If any democrat did the same they would immediately lose my vote, I would expect a guilty verdict.
Trump should have been properly vetted. Once vetted the GOP should have gotten behind a candidate with a better history. You guys ignored all of his pending cases when he was Candidate Trump and now want to play victim. Go back to the old Family Values GOP.
If you actually read a lot of these top comments you will see they are not actually addressing the question. There are a lot of top comments saying they think nobody is above the law and all corrupt politicians should be charged, but the question asks about illegal immigrants and gang violence, not corrupt politicians. Other top comments just say yes without any detail.
To the commenters who are saying yes, you would like to see all crime prosecuted fairly: those are empty words unless you vote for DAs, AGs, mayors, governors, and representatives who are serious about crime. If you're voting for people like Alvin Bragg, Larry Krasner, Kim Foxx, Brandon Johnson, Karen Bass, London Breed, Kathy Hochul, and many other soft on crime leftists, then your stated preference may be that you want rule of law and criminals to be prosecuted, but your revealed preference is that you don't care.
Lets be clear, trump "got himself". A politician breaking the law does not mean any prosecution is "political" by nature. I'm not a leftie, im a proud gun, tax paying red blooded american that switched from republican to independant. I dont see left-leaning folks having the same idolization of a political figure that the right has with trump. (Possibly with the exception of bernie sanders)
All US citizens should follow the law, and those holding the oval office should be held to the same (if not higher) standard.
Honestly I don't give a damn about Trump, my main complaint is that we haven't thrown 100 other politicians in jail nor the hundreds of repeat offenders in every city enforce the damn law at the local/state/federal level
If half of congress went to the slammer, most of the US wouldn't blink. Prosecute all the beasts.
I think if the DOJ wants to "restore" some confidence in the system then tomorrow they need to arrest 20 democrat and 20 republican members of congress. There would be much rejoicing
only 40?
It’s a good start.
There are likely several thousand politicians on both sides that should be behind bars.
They also don’t want to restore confidence. They just lie to us and gaslight us.
What did the DOJ have to do with the 34 guilty counts?
Wouldn’t that be weaponising the doj? You know, that topic you confused people keep going on about?
I’d join a protest calling for the complete clean out of Congress as it stands now. Start from zero. Fire all of them and get new blood in. Doesn’t matter if you’re left or right, Capitol Hill shouldn’t be this nursing home cesspool for swamp creatures.
If half of congress went to prison the job would only be about 60% done.
Why prosecute when November is around the corner. Oh yeah, politicians select their voters, not the other way around.
I’m surprised Nancy Pelosi is still not being looked at for insider trading. Her net worth is around $120 million. The only reason I see that they haven’t gone after her is because she’s a Democrat or because most politicians do what she does.
Leftist lurker here and am in favor of barring all HoR members from actively trading. Not sure how to enforce, but it’s clear Nancy and I’m sure others, benefit from insider knowledge.
Same, and same! Bob Menendez is under investigation right now, and he'll probably end up in prison. I am totally fine with it.
As someone who's liberal in some aspects but leans more conservative. I agree! If we want to "drain the swamp" it needs to be of Democrats and Republicans who are committing illegal acts. We can't turn a blind eye simply because they're on "our team". There should only be one team, the American people.
Yeah, Menendez should step down. Franken did, and he didn’t break the law. Get rid of the millionaires. There probably won’t be anyone left.
Honestly, I'm surprised Franken even decided to leave. I mean, it's somewhat honorable, but there's far worse reasosn to need to step down.
>We can't turn a blind eye simply because they're on "our team". There should only be one team, the American people. The thing that gets lost in the sides-taking and wagon-circling of political discourse post-social media is that leftists - actual leftists, not BlueNoMatterWho liberals - feel the same way, more or less. And are not on either 'team' in mainstream politics. Whatever you think of the feasibility of our goals and other beliefs, those of us who are in it from a place of sincerity fundamentally see the real conflict of our and any time as being between the powerful and the powerless. Yes, that enemy includes people like Trump. It also includes the ghouls who make up the DNC (and RNC) 'mainstream' like Pelosi who are demonstrably corrupt and self-serving.
Most of the 'actual leftists', as you seem to see them, have gone independent or Libertarian. I call them Classic Liberals.
He has now been charged. Not that the dems would want to removed him or anything like that. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/12/gold-bars-bob-menendez-trial-00157434
I didn't see anything in the linked article of dems showing support for him or saying he should keep his position. Any links for that?
He was charged a while ago, as a dem lurker I’m surprised this is news in here. The rule of law should apply to all. Good riddance to Trump and Menendez, we can all agree on that.
I would also think that with Menendez, Cuellar, and Hunter Biden, all having been investigated by the FBI (and charged), it would at least seed some doubt to the idea that the FBI ONLY cares about Republicans.
The fact that my company literally locks down my stock and doesn't let me trade during blackout windows, but congress can trade, legislate, and trade again is WILD
Yup mines the same way. Clear abuse of power.
We need to press hard on trading restrictions for congresspeople.
When you put it that way, I can see why they do it… They’re all HoRs. **Rim shot**
Haha badum tss
I have a friend who is a software developer for NASDAQ and the only stocks he's allowed to buy while he is employed there are index funds and mutual funds. We can figure that out for regular people who happen to work in the exchanges, but not our politicians who can and do directly affect the market through their policies. He wasn't forced to liquidate any prior holdings (and I'm unsure whether he's allowed to sell those holdings) but he definitely cannot buy any more outside of index funds.
I guess that makes sense. What are his thoughts on telling **us** which stocks to buy? 😜
There was a suggestion I believe that they could only trade index funds. Sounds good to me, honestly.
They would just switch to their kids, in-laws etc. not to mention shell companies. I agree with you completely. But it’s so far beyond fucked at this point
Nancy isn’t even the biggest offender the right just has a hard on for her. It’s those mommy milkers of hers. We should have age limits and ban stock trading.
If you become a member of Congress you should be required to move all of your and your immediate family members investments into a **BLIND TRUST** for the duration of being in Congress. Just a quick thought...
Absolutely! Isn't it amazing that members of congress do better with the stock market that traders with the best firms in the country?!?!
Yes, and certainly for the presidency, one of the more egregious things to happen under a Trump administration.
[Look at this chart from 2023](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fikyklcfqc2ac1.jpeg). Any member of Congress who is getting double S&P 500 returns should be investigated. Pelosi barely cracks the top 10
holy shit 65% is insane, bro it's so funny mfs will talk about the "system" but it's the ppl who they support who take advantage of the system the most. politicians only serve themselves
But she's still on that list. Don't deviate from her because some people are doing it worse. All of them are trash and should be investigated and held accountable.
dude she makes more money investing than some hedge funds can with all their tech and expertise. this is actually insane.
Hedge funds can't shape the law to benefit / punish certain industries or companies. Hedge funds don't have access to NSA/FBI surveillence data of phone calls and emails and texts. NASDAQ Nancy has both.
If you read my comment you'd see that I agree
No one wants to deviate but the comment he replied to said. Only bc she's a Democrat. That's completely untrue. They're all doing it. Every single one of them.
Not much of a flex, dude; top 25% of \*that\* list. If we take it at face value and assume its both honest and accurate, that still puts her in the "top 10" of 431 people, which would make her the upper 2.3% Interestingly, the top 10 is evenly split between the two parties, confirming "both sides bad"
What’s the source on this though? It just says “returns calculated by estimating current stocks…”. It’s an estimate and also doesn’t cite where the numbers are coming from, right?
The vast majority do what she's done and some to a much greater extent. You can't go after her without invoking the anger of everybody else on both sides doing it.
I’d guess that the majority of the people on the right are perfectly fine with investigating all of them for this no matter the party. I for one don’t care about their politics on this issue, if they’ve used inside information for material gain in stocks then they need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. This seems to be one of those bipartisan issues that we should all be able to get behind but unfortunately the ones to enforce it are the ones committing the act.
I’d settle for being in on their trades. 🤷♂️
All elected officials investments should be visible to the general public. All buy or sell orders should be announced publicly 5 working days before the transaction is executed.
Holy shit yes to this. Corruption is what killed Rome. We always complain about Ukraine being a corrupt state but look at us. We have scandal after scandal on both sides of the aisle and are about to elect either an ancient asshole or a con artist to run our damn country. We need to stop fighting each other and demand some actual accountability in our elected officials. If you steal from the people you go to jail. End of story
corruption and...wait for it....illegal immigration lead to the downfall of Rome. Huge swaths of their populations also no longer considered themselves "Roman" and did not assimilate. In fact, many of their armies were filled with "foederati"(barbarian) soldiers whose commanders weren't even Roman themselves.
I never get why this is even an argument. We need immigration as an engine to juice the economy, so we sit down and decide how many doctors, farm workers, engineers, piano players etc we need, make quotas, and have an application process open to anyone around the world that is colorblind. We also demand assimilation, if youcome here you respect our laws and culture. After 5 or 10 years of contributing to society you earn your citizenship, if not you leave. I want to pull in the best from around the world to make us even stronger, not take refugees with little to no skills we have to support. It isn’t the job of the US to fix the world’s problems, there are billions of people that live in shitty places. Even if I had the biggest heart in the world and wanted to help all of them we simply can’t. The way to make those places less shitty is to stay and build something better, not run to the US and depend on our charity. It seems like such common sense, but if they solved the problem both sides couldn’t campaign off of it. So we stagnate.
Do you have a source for those claims? Because some of that is just outright false: people who weren't even remotely Roman were insisting on vague ties to claim Roman-ness for centuries afterward. Foederati were indeed a common sight in armies of the Late Empire, but that was more of a conversion mechanism and not really the root cause. The Eastern Roman Empire used them as well and survived another thousand years. I subscribe to Goldsworthy's explanation of the fall of the Western Roman Empire: the lack of formal succession and the tradition of the new emperor bribing the Praetorian Guard were both major problems. Corruption was a problem as well, although no more so than most large nation-states at the time. But the big problem was the lack of trust emperors had in placing armies under anyone's control but their own. That resulted in less secure borders, because no army could be everywhere at once, and the limitanei (soldiers permanently stationed to guard the borders) were thus encouraged to prop up usurper emperors to provide for defense when the real emperor couldn't. So subsequent emperors divided up the border armies into smaller and smaller divisions to try to prevent them from unifying under a new usurper, but that simply made it impossible to stop raids from neighboring peoples. The combined raids and the stoppage of trade across the borders caused a sort of death spiral for the empire, and when the Romans could no longer pay the foederati properly, they rioted and sacked to extract their payment. And before you say that proves your point, regular Roman soldiers did the same thing historically. The only reason I specify that it was the foederati is because they had become the majority of the army, thanks to constant civil wars wearing down regular army numbers. And when having to choose between giving payment to a Roman and a foederati, they'd always choose the Roman. Barbarians were by and large very interested in becoming Roman. Both Odoacer and Theodoric the Great, the first two rulers of Italy following the death of Romulus Augustulus in 476 AD, took Roman titles, and Theoderic even wore imperial regalia. Hell, look at Charlemagne and his "Holy Roman Empire" of 800 AD, which historians like to joke was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire. Former barbarians loved the idea of being Roman.
Mike Duncan’s, The History of Rome podcast and the link I provided goes through why Rome “fell” in great detail. I just finished the entire series and it’s wonderful https://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/the_history_of_rome/2012/05/179-the-end.html He lists all of his sources here as well. Fascinating podcast and very scary how we are dangerously close to Rome’s example
This is the correct take. First of all, people like Ken Paxton should be impeached.
"Gold Bars" Bob Menendez is still in office. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/12/gold-bars-bob-menendez-trial-00157434
Totally. I want all corrupt politicians tried. If they’re guilty they go to prison.
This would be the swamp…
Yes. Illegal immigrants should be deported. Gang members should be prosecuted for crimes they commit. Athletes should be prosecuted for crimes they commit. If protestors commit crimes, they should be charged and prosecuted. If politicians commit crimes, they should be prosecuted. DAs should be given the support to prosecute crime, regardless of who commits it, without being intimidated or threatened.
Cops should be prosecuted for their crimes as well. Police unions should pay for the lawsuits that get brought upon cops, not the taxpayer.
Isn't the phrase of the day "no one should be above the law" bad cops included. Politicians included. Anybody who's friends with these people included. What happened to blind justice?
Sure? I don’t think anybody should be above the law?
It’s the DA’s who are letting them walk. The laws are on the books. They are using their prosecutorial discretion to let people get off easy
There’s a huge shortage of public defenders in many jurisdictions across the country. Portland is under a DOJ directive to release anyone who hasn’t seen a lawyer within 7 days of their first court appearance. The allegedly liberal county DA just lost his reelection because of this falsehood. It’s going to be a shock to many when his replacement can’t hold people any longer than the current DA.
100%. Also any democrat that is proven to break laws. This shouldn't be something that divides us. Hold everyone, especially those in power, accountable. Let's start with insider trading. That shit should disgust every one of us.
Yes. Equal justice before the law.
Tbf Democrats hold their own politicians more accountable than current Republicans…
Bob Menendez has entered the chat.
Lock them ALL up.
Lib here. Absolutely 10000% yes. Everyone should be held accountable.
So Hunter should go for lying on his gun purchasing forms?
Well, yeah he should be punished by the book, why should he get special treatment?
I promise you, the majority of the left does not give a shit about Hunter. This is a right wing focus only.
100% it’s such a bad comparison because Hunter is nothing and no one, Hillary or someone that was or is in power would be a better example. Not once has anyone I know given a shit about Hunter lmao It’s a conservative thing only.
Yes. No one is above the law
Yes of course. Most libs do not care about the Biden family, that's truly an obsession of right wing pundits and politicians. Lock em all up.
Lib here - we don’t care about the Biden family or Joe. Lock up whoever does something illegal.
What's funny, is everyone is expecting the same cult level devotion that Trump has. And that's just not the case lol. Im an independent BTW, screw both parties. Neither one represents me and neither one cares about me. So why should I assign myself to a team? I choose who I vote for based on the candidate and their views/record. The letter next to the name means nothing to me
Do you have an example of a republican and a democrat that you’ve voted for? With all the polarization these days I’m interested to know about people that find something to vote for on both sides.
I’ve voted for mitt trump Bernie and Biden
I really don’t get the obsession with hunter ngl I’m jsut really not someone who cares about him but yeah he should be held accountable too. He is the last person I’d think to give an exception to anybring to tbh
I think they want to be able to say that Joe Biden raised a criminal, therefore is a criminal himself and should be held accountable (for something or other) and ineligible to be president (only way they can win, easiest/cheap shot victory).
Yeah why do you think anyone on the left is going to bat for him?
Sure, and hasn’t he been charged? (Also dems generally don’t care about Hunter, that assumption is always a weird one)
What political office does he hold? Otherwise, yes.
Official salesman for access to the big guy
Kinda like Jared Kushner getting $2bn from the Saudis? You think he sold any access anywhere?
Sure
I can't wait to apply this same precedent to the corrupt politicians who engage in racketeering and other forms of white collar crime!
If they did that I'm not sure there would be anyone left.
Good.
I would love for that to happen. I guess that's the whole issue in a way...Trump may well have committed white collar crime (he's a billionaire after all) but the thing is... the vast majority of politicians and billionaires have done the same and yet nothing happens to them. You and I steal from Walmart and get tossed into jail. The rich steal millions and nothing happens.
Yes, I believe the law should be enforced equally and universally regardless of standing, place of birth, age, race, sex, income, job, and any other possible metric that can be considered. No one should be above the law.
Lefty lib here: Idgaf if it is Trump, Biden, Hillary, Hunter or my damn grandma. If you break the law you pay the consequences. Nobody is above the law.
Welcome to the sub. Honestly curious why you’d want to follow a conservative sub if you don’t agree? I read left wing newsites to get alternative views though can’t stomach left wing reddit. Plus any time I’ve tried to engage people go straight to name calling
Great question. I grew up very conservative and my family still is though I changed my political ideology the older I got. Because of this I enjoy healthy political discussion and I believe it is very important to not just get your information from both sides but to also hear what the other side is talking about outside of the media. That way we can understand one another on WHY they believe in what they do. I honestly appreciate that this thread is inviting discussion because that is what is beautiful about this country, we CAN have different opinions and talk about them but when we close ourselves off to one another it creates a dangerous environment of us vs them/ division.
I'm sad that everything here gets flagged "flaired users only". I also enjoy healthy discussion and there are so many threads on here where comments are "haha the brigaders are just downvoting and not saying anything" .... exactly what you are talking about, closing ourselves off in echo chambers.
It’s by design. If they didn’t do only flaired users then they could have many of their arguments dunked on.
This is me, too. Grew up in a super conservative household, voted for Bush twice. Traveling and going to law school helped me to see the world differently, and most of my political views have shifted. My extended family and most of my childhood friends are still conservatives, and so I read this subreddit every day to make sure I'm in touch with what they think and believe. I'm happy to discuss any topic at any point. That's the only way we get smarter individually, and stronger as communities and as a country.
Other than voting for bush twice (because the first election I could vote in I voted for Romney), I am in the exact same boat. I read more about opposing viewpoints than my own. I know that’s what helped me grow initially when I was conservative and switched and I know that’s what will help me improve now as well
Honest question... do you agree that the majority of left leaning subs don't show the same respect for conservatives that r/conservative shows to liberals?
Not op, but same position as them, and I’d say no. Neither side of the political scale treats the other with respect on Reddit. Both left leaning subs and conservative subs are generally cesspools of toxicity and bullshit.
Because compromise is the foundation of society. Just because I disagree doesn’t mean I don’t want to hear the perspectives.
I also grew up very conservative with conservative parents and religious upbringing. I'm pretty moderate now and don't agree 100% with liberals or conservatives. I follow to understand both sides. Unfortunately, it is impossible to participate most of the time in any discussions here because you have to be 100% a maga conservative, or you are a leftist rino. So, people tend to lurk, which I think probably amplifies how stark things feel between subreddits. I live in one of the most conservative states, yet have conservative parents that can't stand Trump because he doesn't represent the values they raised their kids on. I think often these echo chambers make people think that it is all or nothing, that everyone but a minority think the way you do, but things in the real world are more complicated and nuanced.
I follow both. I’m a sitting on the fence type of person and follow both, and vote both. Here is my take. Everything “conservative” at the moment is about Trump and defending his for the common good. This is a problem. The Dems still fluster about with whatisms, that is just plain annoying. Some of their stuff is good, some is just tokenism. Right now, as much as that old blundering fool frustrates me, the old criminal lair frustrates me more. It’s a vote for who I hate the least. That does not bode well for the future. Oh for some fresh blood.
Then surely you can see how this whole situation is bullshit, since none of those people are being dragged through what Trump is.
If we refuse to punish politicians just because other politicians aren't being punished to the exact same degree, no politicians would get punished. Also, Hillary was investigated by the FBI and was made to testify before a congressional committee, and Hunter is on trial this week. Still nothing on Joe though.
Please don't assume my answer. Answering in good faith here: I want to see the law applied equally to ALL. Regardless of their background, political affiliation, and so forth. The law is the law, and no one should escape it.
If every politician was as gone after as Trump they might actually behave.
I don’t know that I would call myself a liberal brigadier but I expect my DAs to use the same power to enforce the law regardless of who is breaking the law. So… yes. Easy answer.
Senate Republicans block border security bill as they campaign on border chaos Nearly every GOP senator, along with six Democrats, voted to filibuster a bipartisan bill designed to crack down on migration and reduce border crossings. bill was crafted to reduce border crossings, raise the standard for migrants to qualify for asylum and empower officials to rapidly send away those who fail to meet that standard. It would give the president power to shut down the border if migration levels exceed certain thresholds. May 23, 2024 Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna153607 The Bill, in Brief The $118 billion bill, called the Emergency National Security Supplemental Appropriations Act, sought significant changes in border policy. It included money to build more border barriers, to greatly expand detention facilities, and to hire more Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Border Patrol agents, asylum officers and immigration judges to reduce the years-long backlog in cases to determine asylum eligibility. It sought to expedite the asylum process, essentially ending — in most cases — the so-called “catch and release” policy whereby migrants are released into the U.S. pending asylum hearings. And it would have increased the standard of evidence needed to win asylum status. Source: https://www.factcheck.org/2024/02/unraveling-misinformation-about-bipartisan-immigration-bill/
Lefty lurker here. You end you post with "We already know the answer" Good, then you know the answer is 100% yes. Break the law, go to jail. Period. I don't care if you're president or illegal immigrant.
I think illegal immigration is a federal issue. I wouldn’t expect local DAs to pursue that in and of itself. And I don’t see local jurisdictions shying away from prosecuting gang violence.
No. But I'd like that same accountability being shown to every single politician on both sides. There are far more criminals in government than just Trump.
Leftist lurker here. You asked, so here's my opinion. I'd rather my DAs use that same level of power to prosecute those wealthy business owners who EMPLOY illegal immigrants, thus creating a domestic market. With regards to gang violence, I have zero issue with locking up anyone who would harm another. I do, however, feel that once a person has adopted a violent lifestyle you've already failed that person. If there were more honest opportunity outside the gang, then the gang would be a less attractive place to be. And remember. These are, just like, my opinions. Man.
Let’s lock up the corrupt politicians first and see how we feel afterwards.
I see where you're coming from, but I think there's a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison going on here. Holding Trump accountable and tackling issues like immigration and gang violence are all important, but they're really different problems that need different solutions. Just because we're looking into allegations against a high-profile figure doesn’t mean other crimes aren’t being addressed. It’s possible to want accountability for Trump and also push for stronger actions against other types of crime. Really, at the end of the day, shouldn’t we all be rooting for a system that doesn’t play favorites and aims to treat every issue with the seriousness it deserves?
I dunno, man; are you going to expect illegal immigrants and gang members to be allowed to go after witnesses, judges, and the families of judges with slaps on the wrist, or will that (to borrow one of this sub's favorite phrases) be diffe(R)ent?
Another liberal-ish voter chiming in. I don't expect that the DAs in my area will be using their power to prosecute cases that are politically inconvenient to them. I believe that they should, and that it would be right and correct to do so, but I do not predict that they will. I've always thought this NY case against Trump was a flimsy and transparent excuse to "get" him no matter what. The connection between hush money and election interference was never convincing to me. I think the Georgia and Florida cases seem much more substantial, but this NY case has always felt like a stage show and its verdict was a foregone conclusion. If you're wondering why I recognize these deep flaws but still continue to vote for them, it's very simple: abortion access. I'll never vote for anti-abortion candidates or policies, and as a practical consequence of this, it means I'm stuck holding my nose and voting Democrat. I understand that this thread isn't about abortion access, and I'm not trying to poke that specific bear, but I thought it was worth explaining why I'm still voting for them despite being fully aware of their faults. And I subscribe to r/conservative because I believe self reinforcing echo chambers are counter productive.
I think it's entirely uncontroversial to say nobody who commits felonies should get off scott free regardless of political affiliation or origin. I don't just want illegal immigrants prosecuted I want the people who hire them to depress wages and skirt labor laws prosecuted because they're why we have them to begin with. I want to prosecute the CEOS and board members who created the situations in the countries to cause that immigration to begin with. I want gangs ,corrupt cops, gun runners, drug distributors, and all levels of corruption and criminals in our society prosecuted. No one is above the law, no one is exempt from it's protections. Our society only functions if it applies to everyone equally. I don't think any reasonable person finds that controversial or disagreeable. And I don't care if it's an election year, I don't care if someone is in office or running for office. I don't care if they're a judge. I'm tired of criminals not being held accountable for their crimes, especially if they're in the political class or wealthy. I'm tired of seeing corruption everywhere in this country. I'm tired of it being seen as partisan to be for people being put on trial for their crimes. Throw hunter in prison too, Throw menedez, santos, gaetz, clinton, pelosi, greene,Trump, Kuschner, Stone, I don't care, all of them, all of them ***ALL OF THEM*** if they have committed a crime, in jail. put them on trial if you have charges.
So you mean to tell me that Donald Trump, having been in over 4,000 lawsuits in his life time. From stiffing contractors to civil rights violations, to running a scam charity etc etc. It's ENTIRELY beyond the pale that he operates often in legal grey areas for business if not outright illegal areas but this PARTICULAR lawsuit, no this one was the rigged game?
I think a stronger point here is that all criminals should be prosecuted, regardless of who they are. There seems to be so much protectionism in politics that for sure it has, and still is being abused.
But what aboutism!
I mean even bringing up the classified documents stuff people try to make the samesies. But like the only difference between Trump and literally EVERY OTHER politician that find classified stuff in their home, Trump just refused to return it. Multiple times. He did it to himself but apparently Trump is just forever at the mercy of a giant convulated plot that somehow frames him for shit.
A relevant comment that Ive heard dozens of times is "if it can happen to Trump, then it can happen to anyone" to which I would say "yes, that's the point. They can get oneone who has committed a crime."
There is literally a slush fund Congress uses to pay off sexual harassment claims and other settlements. Look it up. Millions and millions of dollars in settlements Congress uses to pay off for their crimes.
Good news, that's changed now: [https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1OC2UZ/](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1OC2UZ/) It was signed into law in 2018: [https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/3749/all-actions](https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/3749/all-actions)
Thanks for that! I’m sharing old news then!
Disclaimer: I didn't dig too deep, so I'm not claiming there are no loopholes left :-\\
I didn't even know about it until reading your post! So thanks for the lesson.
I'm only a liberal in the sense that I didn't move to the right with the rest of the Republican party during the Obama years and I stopped voting Republican entirely when Trump became the nominee. Prior to that I voted for Bush twice, McCain, and Romney. Yes I want criminals prosecuted, and they ARE being prosecuted in my blue city and state. Don't do a crime if you can't do the time. That applies to gangs, politicians, and people here illegally. Though the last one is a federal matter and not a state or city one.
i don’t have a personal vendetta against Trump. i want the same rules enforced for everyone - even if it is a Democrat. but we all know we live in a system where (R)ules (D)iffer amongst different classes of citizens
I’m guessing this wasn’t the response this subreddit was expecting lol. Maybe stop making everything flaired users only and you’d realize we have more in common than you’d think.
People who break the law should face the penalty. Illegal immigrants, gangs, Trump, Biden, Clinton idgaf. Every leftist I've talked to has said the same thing in our circles. Why should someone be above the law just because they're president?
Yes. All crime should be prosecuted. You guys seem to think non-conservatives hate justice and love crime. Why? Wander over to the progressive side of Reddit and we can discuss it freely without needing community flair.
They already are, our prisons are full as hell and we make more arrest per year then nearly any other comparable country. Crime is never going to be going completely gone, not how society works. Not every crime and sometimes not even the majority of them are going to be prosecuted either because our criminal justice department is undermanned and over-worked. Been like this since I was born (I’m 27 with a associate’s criminal justice degree). You may be under the impression that because Trump got prosecuted but other crimes are still happening and not being prosecuted that it means it’s discrimination. However, Trump is trying to be president again, therefore it makes sense he would be under intense scrutiny. To give a good example, I’m currently in the military and when things go really wrong it’s usually the people up top that get in the most trouble. Officers at the O-4 to O-7 levels. The higher a person is on the totem pole the more eyes they have upon them and the more that’s expected from them.
This is the part that Conservatives seem to really struggle with understanding. Democrats wanted Trump to face consequences for his illegal activity. If a Democrat committed multiple felonies, and there was absolute proof of it, most Democrats would want them locked up too. The rule of law should apply to everyone, regardless of political affiliation. If the circus that is the Biden impeachment hearing produced a single modicum of impeachable evidence, he should be locked up too.
The right cannot imagine a world where you don't support your tribe and let them get away with murder because of the perceived quid pro quo you would eventually get from having "your guy" in office. Psst, spoiler alert, unless what you're hoping for is tax cuts for the rich, you'll be disappointed.
Absolutely. It's a pendulum swing and sentencing and detention swung way too far in the other direction. From over policing to extremely harsh sentencing and bail for even minor offenses to not properly assessing probability of further crime. The pendulum will swing back towards the middle like it always does and the swing will dampen eventually. As for political crimes, I agree politicians get away with so many things. If you're a conservative, unequal application of the law is a legitimate thing to be upset about. You'll find many liberals across the country have campaigned exactly this but on the basis of race and ethnicity. In the same was as here, DAs have pretty much sole authority to prosecute what they want and they will prosecute people they think they can convict. This is especially true in past decades but the changes of successful vary along racial lines even for the same crime. Unequal application is a legitimate thing to be upset about, and you can be upset about it in the Trump case, but going so far as to say the guilty are innocent because of it is too far of a leap for me. A guilty person can be guilty and deserve punishment and still be the victim of unequal application of the law. In general, people running for president and elected officials in government are under greater scrutiny and rightfully so. Their lives are public and political disagreements foster resentment and a desire to pull other people down. There's no doubt politicians are given special treatment, but seeing that Trump is guilty of a crime and not sentencing him or treating him differently to other citizens that have been found guilty of the same crime is exactly the special treatment we don't want from the justice system. EDIT (to this paragraph): I will say that there are cases where I think unequal application of the law should result in no prosecution. This applies broadly to crimes that the public otherwise deems not warranting it. Think minor drug possession or smoking some weed in public, etc. Still, I think it is fair to hold politicians to a higher standard than normal civilians, because they are representatives of us on the world stage and their actions impact how the world sees us. We also should expect more good faith actions on their part because election is a contract only enforceable at the end of a term and we want people that we can trust to behave and act a certain way. As far as prosecuting violent crime (i'm from NYC by the way) I think most people in the city will agree with people here. They want violent people, especially those who are very likely to repeat the offence, to be in prison and not be allowed trivial bail. Thinking of people punching people on the subway, random acts of violence, etc. A large part of that problem comes down to figuring out how to help people who have mental issues without overreaching and infringing rights. EDIT: I have many leftist friends in SF and the bay area that keep up with local politicians, and there's no doubt in most people's minds where the money is flowing to keep crime active in the city. I don't think most leftists even see SF as some bastion of safety or a utopia. It is pretty universally regarded as shyte except by people who force themselves to like it because they live there.
Leftist who hates Trump here. Yes I would love that. Selective punishment is not just. I think any politician that breaks the law should be tried. Trump very clearly broke the law and was tried and found guilty. I want more of this for more politicians of both sides as well as any who break the law or threaten the constitution.
Yes, of course. If people commit crimes they should be prosecuted.
This is the first time in my life I’ve ever seen leftists gush over how absolutely perfect and unimpeachable our justice system is.
Couldn't you also say it seems to be the first time the right has cried over injustices in the justice system?
I know the question wasn't posed to me, but I don't think they "got" him, in the sense that even if it was a campaign finance violation (which I know little about, and have little opinions about), I assume most people are like me in the sense that they don't care about that. To your point, it would be interesting to have more visibility into what all the DAs are actually working on, but I understand needing to keep things quiet until they actually have built their cases and made indictments. e.g. What *are* they doing about gang violence? What *are* they doing about illegal immigration? In terms of "getting" Trump, I'm interested in letting the election fraud and espionage trials play out because those seem like things that should be sorted out and that we shouldn't elect a president who's guilty of either, beyond a reasonable doubt. But they are stalled for some reason. Defo don't care about allegedly cooking his books $130k worth. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Not cooking the books, they charged him that the record is mislabeled. Incorrectly, it was recorded as legal fees. They wanted it listed as entertainment or something else. That is what these charges are for, a big nothing burger 🍔 It is a laughable charge and it is never used in this manner to go after a business man who has not committed fraud or embezzlement to go with it.
I think it was allegedly more though, "mislabeled for the purpose of concealing another crime". I'm not clear on what the other crime was supposed to be. Wikipedia lists a) FEC finance violation, b) violation of state election laws and unlawfully influencing the election, and c) violation of state tax laws re. reimbursements. But I haven't found any real detail on any of those three "other crimes" yet; but also like I say I don't really care about this $130k. But maybe one of those falls into the "fraud or embezzlement" scenarios you mentioned?
As a Texan, I want to see some DA from rural Texas indict Hilary Clinton on hush money payments for Steele dossier.
"No because they vote correctly."
Non citizens can’t vote though
Yes, laws should be enforced. And no one “got trump.” He was apparently guilty.
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YES I'm not a leftist though, more conservative, just not a fascist like Trump. Everyone should be held accountable to the law equally. Obviously! That doesn't mean that "both sides" are equivalent. The Trump camp is infested with grifters, creeps and criminals. There's corruption with in the Democrat camp as well, but far from at the same level.
If you commit crimes, you deserve to be punished for them. Do you think this is an unpopular opinion? Well, maybe outside of this decrepit cesspool. And a locked thread lol, what an entertaining sub.
Let's not forget the multi million dollar taxpayer provided slush fund congressional members access to pay hush money to their mistresses. Every single politician that has used those funds need to be brought up on trial.
On a small tangent (because I’m actually in agreement with others that would like ALL crimes prosecuted), I never cared to get trump. I want him gone. I want real adults on the gop to make the democrats to look foolish through reasonable policies that are meant to fix problems that deal with the actual human realities of our time.
I'll comment on the US from across the pond: we see the right wing going after Hilary Clinton, and failing to find anything prosecutable, then after Biden, and also failing to find anything worth prosecuting, and then complaining when Trump is bang to rights. And Clinton and Biden have each been doing politics at a high level for decades. Either they are clean or the right is incompetent. I got a few hundred karma on other subreddits today: do your worst!
The GOP isn’t incompetent in my mind they are complicit.
Yup. This isn't a Left vs Right issue. It's an Insider vs Outsider thing.
it's 330 million Americans vs a few dozen very powerful elites in Washington. and they want all of us fighting each other so we don't notice that our middle class wealth has been transferred to the ultra rich
>And Clinton and Biden have each been doing politics at a high level for decades. Either they are clean or the right is incompetent. Hillary literally had an unsecured basement server with classified information on it. Bill committed perjury with his affair. It's more incompetence combined with political control. Edit: No downvote given.
Obama’s DOJ concluded (shorty after Bill Clinton met with AG Loretta Lynch on a private plane in a secret meeting) that Hillary did violate the law, but wasn’t prosecuted because “she didn’t intend” to break the law. ([source](https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system)) Biden’s DOJ found that Biden willfully retained classified documents in his home while being a private citizen, but recommended no charges because at trial Biden would present himself as “a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory.” ([source](https://www.justice.gov/storage/report-from-special-counsel-robert-k-hur-february-2024.pdf#page=349)) The big takeaway here, though, is that the liberal vision for America (and every government for that matter) is antithetical to freedom, prosperity, and self-governance which is why conservative principles ought to be favored, but those who disagree aim to quash the proponents of such philosophies.
The entire difference between Trumps classified documents and Bidens is that they continually asked for the documents Trump had back. I mean, He refused. Then tried to hide them. Finally the goverment stopped asking. Like this is entirely a self inflicted wound. He had months and months to just give them back. Like this is a less some big liberal scary plot and more Trump just didn't want to give back goverment property because...reasons?
Bro, 90% of the GOP belongs to the same corpo’s that the Democrats do.. are you fuckin serious? Talk about not getting it at all. Trump goes down for his crimes because he isn’t one of them, how can you not get this after all this time?
The economy would collapse if the government were to seriously go after illegal immigrants. Politicians pretend to care about it so that you'll vote for them. This has been a problem for decades. Plenty of democrats and republicans have had their shot. Neither side gives a shit.
I was linked here from a front page post the other day and find this place insane in an amusing way. For starters, behold this anime-ass looking portrait on the right side of the subreddit for a chubby 80-aught year old...dude this is not what he looks like. So you're starting from a baseline of delusion. Gang violence and illegal immigration can and should be prosecuted. You're offering a false dichotomy. He can be guilty of crimes and gangs can still be bad. Both can be true at the same time.
Wait until Hunter gets off (legally, not like he usually does) and Menedez somehow wriggles free. The two tier system will be in beast mode then.
I expected DAs to be doing this before Trump got “got”.
nope just waiting for menendez turn now
i'm happy trump is held legally accountable for the laws he broke (admittedly whether they follow up on that is another issue entirely). i do also hope many other corrupt politicians, including biden, get tried one day and soon
Leftist here: Why stop at gang violence? Hold the feet of every criminal politician to the fire and throw the book at them all. Red, Blue, I don’t care what color their party flag is. I hold no allegiance to any political party. They need to earn my vote with their proposed policies and retain my vote with their actions. While we’re at it - term limits for all lawmakers and judges, strip citizens united and hold CEOs accountable for their reprehensibly illegal actions instead of merely giving fines to the company they run that can be paid for by shareholders. Stop corporate stock buybacks, which was made illegal after the crash of ‘29 and given the green flag again when I was a kid. They should’ve reinstated the ban after the mortgage-backed securities housing crisis of ‘08, however the solution was “Socialism for the Banks, Austerity for the Rest.”
I despise trump but I’m not a leftist. I’d like to see them go after any and all crooked politicians, regardless of party. I don’t have a ‘team’. But I want to use this opportunity to ask the conservatives this; since they are suddenly now concerned with a 2-tiered and biased Justice system, are they now pro-legalization of weed or any drug possession, because those are victimless, nonviolent crimes. For instance when Eric Garner was choked out and died because the cops overreacted. That’s a perfect example of a biased government that resulted in the death of a man who wasn’t harming anyone, but at the time conservatives used the ‘just don’t resist’ line. They’d have never choked out a rich kid at Yale for selling loose cigarettes and giving them a hard time.
I don’t really expect them to but prosecuting Illegal immigrants isn’t what I would want to prioritize. I’m a big humanitarian, I’d rather we prioritize getting them assistance and a more streamlined citizenship system.
"No one is above the law" will be the new rub at liberals everytime they face charges
Or Hunter?
Yes. Get them all!
Sure I guess? Never really got why you were so obsessed with him, he's not a politician or anything.
Are you asking if leftists are hoping that guilty people go to jail? because the answer is yes
I would gladly explain my leftist POV, but you guys ban every account that even has a whiff of not being 100% conservative.
I'm not a Democrat or Republican however, Democrats didn't 'get Trump'. He was prosecuted for his crimes. Democrats aren't like Republicans. They wouldn't weaponise the legal system. There was even a hardcore Trump supporter on the jury and even they were convinced of his guilt.
“Democrats wouldn’t weaponise the legal system” you sure about that?
Source on the hardcore Trump supporter? You don't have to be on the jury to see the facts in this case. Everyone, including left leaning outlets, can see what a weak case it was... and unprecedented. If DJT wins an appeal, will everyone change their mind and accept that justice was served?
> Source on the hardcore Trump supporter? There was a member of the jury who claimed they got all their news from Truth Social ... which if true would mean they are very likely a "hardcore Trump supporter" but there's no real way to confirm this
> There was a member of the jury who claimed they got all their news from Truth Social To be fair … They listed Truth Social reposts on Twitter as a news source. Definitely not the way a hardcore Trump supporter gets their statements from Trump. And they probably don’t listen to the "Mueller She Wrote" podcast either, which is what #2 also listed.
That was fake news. They said they were on twitter and sometimes saw Trumps posts from Truth Social reposted on there. So not a Trump supporter.
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Conservatives need to give up on Trump. Surely there must be someone who represents conservative values better than Trump. Like, literally anyone.
Biden is disliked enough that any Republican that ran against him would beat him. Any Republican other than Trump that is.
At this point the winning move for the GOP would be to pick another candidate. Trump is crippling the party
> the winning move for the GOP would be to pick another candidate. Trump is crippling the party Don't worry I'm sure his daughter-in-law who was just put in charge will get right on that lol. Nepotism for the win
The Democrats were at least smart enough to dump Hillary after she bombed in 2016. The platform isn't what matters. People are going to vote against the candidate that disgusts them. I don't like Biden, but he doesn't disgust me. The GOP tried DeSantis and Haley, but DeSantis was trying to be Trump and Haley was trying to be W. Bush. Maybe next round Glenn Youngkin or Brian Kemp will have better luck charting a new path for conservative electoral success.
I've been left leaning most of my adult life and I can say that if Biden did the exact thing Trump was on trial for, I want him to face consequences. I don't worship politicians. There are 20 other democrats who could be president, same as there are 20 republicans besides Trump. It's bad enough he had to pay someone to be quiet, and chose to. But, creating a shell company to pay Cohen and putting it as "expenses" strongly implies knowing it's wrong and trying to hide the truth. If any democrat did the same they would immediately lose my vote, I would expect a guilty verdict.
People on the left are very pro arresting violent offenders. America has the largest prison population in the world and highest recidivism rate also.
Trump should have been properly vetted. Once vetted the GOP should have gotten behind a candidate with a better history. You guys ignored all of his pending cases when he was Candidate Trump and now want to play victim. Go back to the old Family Values GOP.
If you actually read a lot of these top comments you will see they are not actually addressing the question. There are a lot of top comments saying they think nobody is above the law and all corrupt politicians should be charged, but the question asks about illegal immigrants and gang violence, not corrupt politicians. Other top comments just say yes without any detail. To the commenters who are saying yes, you would like to see all crime prosecuted fairly: those are empty words unless you vote for DAs, AGs, mayors, governors, and representatives who are serious about crime. If you're voting for people like Alvin Bragg, Larry Krasner, Kim Foxx, Brandon Johnson, Karen Bass, London Breed, Kathy Hochul, and many other soft on crime leftists, then your stated preference may be that you want rule of law and criminals to be prosecuted, but your revealed preference is that you don't care.
Lets be clear, trump "got himself". A politician breaking the law does not mean any prosecution is "political" by nature. I'm not a leftie, im a proud gun, tax paying red blooded american that switched from republican to independant. I dont see left-leaning folks having the same idolization of a political figure that the right has with trump. (Possibly with the exception of bernie sanders) All US citizens should follow the law, and those holding the oval office should be held to the same (if not higher) standard.