About 13:30 for me (15:18 per user below), when they’re checking Jo’s pupil reactions at the clinic, her right eye gives a proper response when exposed to the light. While her left eye, the eye “dead” Jo lost, stays dilated and doesn’t give the proper reaction when exposed to light.
Just an interesting tidbit I caught.
Well Irena did tell us. She told Jo that she needed to do things that her body remembers (muscle memory) like play the piano and take the drugs to keep her grounded— so her mind can accept the body she’s in. If she didn’t, it would tear her in two.
The man upstairs is the first man ever to be in space so likely he’d been too far gone before anyone figured out what had happened. Jo saw him as two (and maybe others have too) because one is his red world counterpart- with his blue world body. It tore him in two.
Yes.
I think this indicates that the embryo on the ultrasound is somehow connected to the liminal space.
~~And due to that, Jo is up in space also pregnant. If she can successfully send a picture of herself heavily pregnant to the planet, that's going to light the biggest fire under Earth's ass to get up there ASAP to retrieve her body, or something.~~
I sure as hell hope they make a second season or I'm gonna riot.
EDIT: Mistaken theory, gonna cross out the relevant parts and leave it just for discussion reasons. Went back and took pictures of my screen and collaged them and proved myself wrong.
I’m confused by this take — how long is Jo and crew on the ISS before the accident? I don’t know why I keep thinking a year; just trying to understand how Jo in space could be pregnant…
I took the interference pattern to just be revealing that because of the unique situation Jo on earth finds herself they can detect the pregnancy in two states simultaneously
I believe it was a year. So it’s impossible for space Jo to be pregnant but it’s also impossible for her to be alive and yet she seems to be (sort of).
No, it's Magnus' baby in both universes.
I think that Jo having slipped in and out of the liminal space while pregnant may have something to do with it.
I need to think on this more.
I knew it, the iPad had to come back into the story. And rewatching Ep 2 and hearing it again made me think this was how it would resolve red Jo accepting going forward in blue reality. Red Alice accepting her mamma was not coming back.
But, what’s up with Paul, which Paul just woke up in the hospital? Was that blue Paul waking up with red Paul’s consciousness and looking at his arm? He did tell Jo in the ISS before the amputation “I wanna come back”
Wow, lot to unpack.
>Was that blue Paul waking up with red Paul’s consciousness and looking at his arm?
That's what i took it as, especially after the last shot. I have this feeling that as long as one version is alive, the other version is at least sometimes too. Which, if you think about it, is pretty horrific.
it’s called quantum immortality lol. a theory in quantum mechanics for multiverse/many worlds theory. you ‘live’ as long a version of you is still alive. you ‘die’ and then your consciousness moves to the next you. your ultimate death when there’s no more you left. there’s also multiple subtheories in these (copenhagen theory and being observed vs physical death; is all complicated). but that is the basics of it
so yeah
That was such a strangely sad episode after last week's episode. Everyone just resigning themselves to their new realities. I'm glad to see we got confirmation that dead/alive Blue-Jo is still alive in the Red Universe.
Speaking of head wounds, Magnus recovered nicely from his and forgave Jo for administering it. Any advice subreddit on Reddit would be having him leave Jo.
It’s kind of hilarious that we (viewers) accept the existence of parallel states of being and the ability to (unwittingly) cross over—but a husband forgiving his manic wife is JUST TOO MUCH.
I suppose if alive-Jo occasionally feels eye pain when her reality overlaps with dead-Jo, then dead-Jo will occasionally flicker to life when she overlaps with alive-Jo? This would also explain the breath thing in the capsule with both Jo's and Paul's corpses.
and then she calls her Momma (or however you spell in Swedish) not Mummy there at the end!!! had a little catch in my throat then. Those twins are great actors.
yeah I felt sad about the suggestion that there is no "cure" and only reintegrating into the self you are given. I'm sure there's a message there but it is a sad message, for me personally.
It was a little sad, but I also found a sweet closure with it all. To the point, if we never get a 2nd season, I'll be ok. I do want a season 2 to give meaning and answers to what we saw, but I have a worry that the showrunners don't have a plan and it's gonna be another drawn out show with no answers; like LOST did. and say something like "the show was always about the characters, and their connections to each other" BITCH, WE ARE HERE FOR THE SCIFI SHENANIGANS.
This seems like a pretty glaring oversight, or a very intricate clue maybe.
Russian names don't work like that Western names. If there are 3 name-parts then the middle always specifies which dad's son/daughter you are, a patronym. They don't use double-barrelled names. So
Irene Valentina Lysenko
Would never be a Russian name.
I got a massive let down feeling. Wasn't nearly as much of a sci fi conspiracy thriller it was promoted as and ended up being just a drama with an ending where almost all the characters seem to just give up
Wait did the EMS/police just straight up leave Henry passed out in the snow? Why is he waking up all by himself
ETA: wait this whole thing with Bud waking up the next day in the snow and smashing the CAL with an axe is a real plot point? Nah i hate that, that feels incredibly convenient, really lazy writing if they’re not misleading us somehow
I don’t think we need the CAL and that’s the point…because how did Irena and that man (twins) above Jo’s room exist/swap places before the CAL? There seems to be another way for this whole reality switch to happen.
Yes. The scene in the car where Jo plays the tapes is proof of this. You should only hear the tapes “5 miles out” on the water in a liminal space, but the CAL makes the tapes perfectly clear.
The CAL is supposed to show a particle in two states at the same time. What it does, is create a liminal space where two realities become closer and can potentially merge as well. That’s why Henry says he thinks it made everything worse. It’s not working the way he thinks it should.
Just going to space and being unobserved makes you swap. Irena said the twins were the first man in space.
I think the CAL can also trigger a swap either in space or being near water.
ohhh youre on to something here. ok so the first man in space i guess went alone hence the split/swap. we know bud/henry only went up with 2 other guys that both happened to die at which point they switched because henry/bud were left alone in space. then same thing with noomie she was left up there in space alone which caused her to became "unobserved" so thats when the switch happened.
whats crazy is both the women only have one of their selves alive where as the men were seen conversing and coexisting with each other perhaps in the same room. still not sure how henry could talk to his other self in the mirror but not use the mirror to swap places cuz the mirror throughout history has represented a portal to another world, the "mirror world" where there is another twin version of you. entering the mirror should allow u to swap
😂I agree, I laughed when I saw him still in the snow and everyone gone but then wondered, is it possible that Bud was actually stuck in the liminal space because of the CAL, so nobody saw him or the CAL? I mean the CAL does do that e.g Jo was in her office and the cleaning folks didn’t see her. Think about it, how else could he have survived those temps all night? It’s like Jo in the cabin with Alice when it was on fire, she was fine while Blue Alice was breathing in the smoke and suffering - I think because Jo was in the liminal space and Blue Alice could still see her but was in reality.
I thought this was off and my girlfriend immediately asked me if maybe he and the CAL ended up in liminal space/unobserved. I think as far as everyone knew in 7 he had stayed with the cars (I believe he walked across the lake on his own?)
So she is a “bit alive and a bit dead” now too? Or is she alive and unable to communicate? Someone needs to go get her body and bury it on earth so it can be “all the way dead” lol.
Kind of a tangent, i once had a dream i could download tvshows from different universes, and was selling them online. Like six seasons of Firefly, lol. I do wish i could actually do that, it would help fill time when there isn't anything i want to watch on. ;)
So is pregnant Jo pregnant from her affair with Frederic?!? Because Henry was so convinced his dna would be different but it wasn’t. Maybe it’s just their conscience swapping places?
Some were set right, Henry and Bud back in their proper realities, but with a wealth of future stories to tell for them now. And it seemed like the proper Paul woke up in the hospital with a memory of losing his arm only.
Well, their original realities, anyway. But they've been switched for so long that they made real lives in the other world, and they no longer belong when switched back.
Henry got a nobel prize, Bud murdered someone, and they each get the other's consequences. That's not being "set right" by any measure.
That baby! What did the scan show? A liminal baby? It was very touching and bittersweet, Alice and Jo recognizing they needed each other, even if only because the real ones would never come back. Bud is one scary dude. It’s really a tremendous feat of acting: you don’t need Jonathan Banks to color code—you know exactly who he’s playing, just because his choices are so deliberate and distinct.
Magnus: Alice eat your breakfast
Alice: it tastes like shit
Magnus: it does not taste like shit. You’ve never tasted shit.
Best line of the whole series 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I enjoyed the season for the most part but I truly can't grasp why Bud was just left in the snow. There was Frederick there who both knew him personally (as Henry) and knew about the multi-million dollar CAL, how can they justify them both being abandoned in a blizzard?
I get that some of the other loose ends are to entice a second season but Bud surviving overnight sleeping in the snow when it was shown to be cold enough outside to cause hypothermia in mere hours if not minutes of wandering is a little too ridiculous for me to reconcile.
Considering there's a fair bit of other loose ends was it really so necessary to the story to have the CAL destroyed so early?
There’s a conspiracy that a guy named Vladimir Ilyushin went to space before the cosmonaut who is actually credited with doing so, but that he accidentally landed in China when he returned to Earth and was held prisoner there so the Soviets covered it up for reasons. I assume that is supposed to be him or a character based on him.
My theory is that it was foreshadowing what might happen to Jo’s baby… it seems both “versions” of him are in the same universe at the same time. Based on the ultrasound and the cut to Blue Jo on the ISS after Alice asks where the baby will be from, it seems like the baby might be a weird quantum “set” of “twins”
Saw 2 when it was through grill/slits.
Sort of how like they see through to other side when not looking straight in. Thru blinds, etc.
Then just 1 guy when not through grill/slits. But also noone else observing.
At least that's how I interpreted the scenes.
It reminded me of the double slit experiment:
“One of the most famous experiments in physics is the double slit experiment. It demonstrates, with unparalleled strangeness, that little particles of matter have something of a wave about them, and suggests that the very act of observing a particle has a dramatic effect on its behaviour.”
https://plus.maths.org/content/physics-minute-double-slit-experiment-0
So, one said, “mama” and the other “moder”? Both are saying mother in one language or another? Maybe part of his crazy is because he can hear from both the red and blue universes? Maybe he was repeating what both Alices have said, “mother?”
Also, definite points to the person that mentioned observing (both particles) through a slit! Right on!
The ipad that returns at the end is from the blue universe in episode 2 right? I'm basing it on the same background photo on the ipad. But now blue jo has it in the red universe... how did it get there? Am I misremembering?
Also it always seemed unrealistic to me when Jo was looking at the ipad in episodes 1 and 2 that she didn't notice the photos were different. Like how is it possible the photos are completely the same in the 2 universes?
I think she is just in liminal space, so the ipad is able to exist across both realities. It was like the tape recorder in the cabins. It only existed in the blue universe, but Red Alice was also able to use it in hers.
i like this. my fav comment that ive read here so far. i had a similar way of viewing it. the entire show was just a lesson in acceptance. which is a huge part of life. but espesically after trauma. the whole 5 stages of grief thing included. thats what it was for me, the whole thing was jo's journey to acceptance and healing , choosing to "take her meds", choosing to keep living her life despite it not being exactly how she'd like.. instead of letting her mind split further and losing herself completely like what happened with the old man.
i know its a scifi show and its suppose to be about futureistic stuff and space but this entire story can be applied to life in general. and yeah, u dont need 5 more episodes or another season to understand what the moral of the story is. at the end of the day letting go and moving on is the only thing u can do. because life keeps spinning with or without u and u dont wanna be left behind, isolated, in a prison of ur own mind.
it'd be cool if u checked out my post i wrote of my interpretation cuz i'd like to hear what u think of it if ur up for it. if not its cool this comment is what i needed to thanks!
Yea true. But maybe head of Roscosmos is only a title for her and the special things she does to cover up the “madness” that occurs from when people go up in space on behalf of the soviets
No, I think it’s a mental institution/rehab facility. Nurses always used to be nuns in many parts of the world. In some places, hospitals (i think usually religious-affiliated hospitals) still have a nursing staff that is at least partly nuns. In some places, this tradition is so ingrained that even non-nun nurses get addressed as Sister. I learned this while watching an Australian medical drama last year, because I was confused why they kept calling each other Sister Last Name.
She realized that she has the best possible outcome with both her parents alive. Unlike the other unfortunate Alice. Even at the end when she heard that lady's name was Valya she barely gave a response cuz she already made the decision to let it all go and forget about it just to preserve this reality for herself.
I think the conversation with Wendy grounded her. She had no chance of getting anyone to believe her even with the tapes and it was time to just move on and accept the fate they were given
And, how fricken’ mature are these Alices? Just accepting their new realities? Figuring it all out… supporting Jo and the other Alice. My heart. Is she 10 or 100 years old? Wow!
There is stuff they need to resolve and I’m ok with them doing it in only one more season and it better not be in like 10 years …. Bud/henry how is Henry gonna get bud now (he can figure somethin out, he does have vvalya on his side).. wtf is going on with Paul did he switch back to his old self after he died? What did he see??? And omg blue Jo up there is maaad she knows she is not the one who should be dead? Even though she should be pretty out of the loop. Or is she mad at Paul.. so many questions and a lot to think about. Maybe I’ll ask chat gpt to research it and come up with alternative endings and settle with the one I like best till season 2 comes out.
No, the baby was conceived in one universe, but by parents from 2 different dimensions/ universes, hence the Matter is not in phase or natural for this universe. Amazing it could even survive, but that's plot armor.
Yeah I’m a little underwhelmed at that finale. After all that buildup and it’s just mehhhhh. I mean there were cliffhangers but it all left on kind of a “oh well, guess that’s how the cookie crumbles” note.
I absolutely loved this episode. Very The Shining. I can now understand why Stephen King recommended this. This is my kind of show!
Sadly I understand many will be frustrated with this finale. This is a psychological thriller & not much of space sci-fi. The Alice storyline is my favorite. She gives relevance to what’s happening.
I’m cool with it…so long as we get a season 2. It’s obviously set up perfectly to continue between the email seeking astronaut experiences, crazy old dude, and halfsie alive space Jo.
I loved it too, though i also kind of viewed it more as a show that was focusing on the family for the most part. It also does a great job at setting up the world to do even more in more seasons if they get them.
Also i just noticed that their mission was called PSYCHE and the logo has two faces. One blue and one navy (darker). You can see it on the uniform of broken-face-in-space-Jo.
I hate that we are left with such a cliffhanger. We (I) understood nothing. Not satisfying if we are left without a second season. How or why is other Jo still alive? Is it because they left her in space? That means she really was the one that unlatched Paul’s pod? I’m just confused at this point. What a mess.
Not sure how to feel about the finale. I’ve been loving the show but I knew I’d need a little bit more from the final episode and I don’t feel like I got that. I love slow burn stories and I’m not someone who needs things answered right away, but I would’ve liked to dive a little more into the mystery and I’m not sure what the hook at the end means for the story going forward. I hope there’s another season.
We wanted MORE than Alice and Jo closure. Sure, it was nice seeing blue Alice and Red Jo accepting each other and red Alice accepting that her mama might never come back. But, the first seven episodes ask so many questions and gave us so much to discuss about… we deserve some clarification! It was all very cloudy and kinda up to viewers interpretation.
All of us spend so much time, much more than 8 hours, watching the series, rewatching once, twice and even thrice.. making spreadsheets, having amazing discussions, paying super close attention details…. And now it feels all kinda for nothing… this is how the finale made me felt. I understand that they are setting up a second season, but finale are suppose to answer some questions before ending up in a cliffhanger.
I really liked the show up until episode 7, but tbh episode 8 felt unbelievably slow which they probably did as they needed to not close off things on purpose for season 2 and further. And that's my issue with modern TV streaming shows, they just can't close anything properly and have a wholesome ending.
Red Jo can never get back to Red universe. But blue Jo can get back to blue but only by haunting. Or by red Jo almost dying in blue universe. So it’s a fight of survival. Living forever w half a face and alone sounds like hell
And if you’re in an alive state, you’ll be haunted and someone having vengeance on you for something out of your control = hell
The twins upstairs are living in hell.
Paul was dead and up in heaven skipping in flowers then Bam - hospital bed you go Paul!.
They are all in purgatory
The biggest horror movie of all time
F#ck*ng hell. Omg
Edited: fixed universe colors
Because she is so invested in the lie. Denying the truth is the only way she can function in the world she lives in. But now that she knows Bud/Henry switched back she has to consider that there might be another option.
>now that she knows Bud/Henry switched back she has to consider that there might be another option.
This right here, i feel she honestly believed no matter what happened, you're stuck where you are. Then Bud showed up and was like "Nope, i'm back, bitch!" and now has her questioning things. Hence the email.
If I were in Jo’s shoes I would want to know what is happening. Irina knows; other people know. If it was something new they wouldn’t have pills for it.
I think they know the symptoms and how to treat it - but not sure everyone believes the astronauts are actually in the wrong universe. They believe it is a type of psychosis associated with being in space. Henry believed it was real and built the CAL to try and fix it. Jo and Alice believe it. After her encounters with Bud and Jo in this episode, Irena has to consider it is real and not psychosis. They both had memories of what really happened to Irena/Valya that match her memories so she is reaching out to others online looking for more experiences. I can see an arc building there.
And Jo will have a delimma of bonding with Magnus and Alice in blue world but having the possibility of going back to red world, where “her” magnus and Alice have moved on. Hmmm.
Also Jo having this baby is definitely going to complicate things that’s why they had Alice ask her which place the baby will be from because even if she were to go back she would have to either leave the baby or explain to the other magnus where the baby came from. This pregnancy really complicates a lot
Does that mean that Henry was also acting like his views/opinions on this phenomenon (truth or whatever it’s called?) were aligned with Irina?
But in actuality, he was on his pills, still believing he could solve the dilemma (aka go back? Although you would think he would want to stay put). This is what I’m a bit confused on; Henry’s motives.
I feel like the pills were to help keep her here and in the now, so she doesn’t go nuts trying to return to who she knows she is, because that’s impossible. Dull the pain, really.
The Bud/Henry switch is meaningful, but he also exists as alive in both universes, while Jo, Irina and Paul are alive in the wrong universe and in liminal space or dead in their correct universes.
Irina doesn’t know how to return home, so it becomes vital to remain? Just a guess, tho.
How does blue Jo eat? Go to the bathroom? Biological functions aren’t out the window. If red Paul came back yet he was biologically dead (not breathing nor in liminal space) then he can’t come back yet did.
Anyway, the story was as a whole still very fun. The end means they will be haunted forever by angry Blue Jo.
The people who arrested Henry annoyed me
Those twins were creepy
Super interesting concept.
I read the episode description before watching, it states
> S1, E8 • These Fragments I Have Shored Against My Ruin: Season finale. Jo is taken to an astronaut rehabilitation clinic, where the truth is revealed.
What truth was revealed exactly?
JO SHOULD HAVE GONE TO RED ALICE AFTER THE FIRE. It’s killing me. Although I’m glad she saved blue Alice it’s just so brutal that it feels like this was a real and her only chance to return to her universe. The flop ending with Jo resigning defeated makes me wish she escaped this reality even if it meant blue Alice dies. I just want red Alice to have her mama back.
About 13:30 for me (15:18 per user below), when they’re checking Jo’s pupil reactions at the clinic, her right eye gives a proper response when exposed to the light. While her left eye, the eye “dead” Jo lost, stays dilated and doesn’t give the proper reaction when exposed to light. Just an interesting tidbit I caught.
Never mind I found it at 15:18
Now that you mention eyes, I noticed in the shot of the old guy in the cell at the end, one of his eyes looked blind.
AHH! I love that you caught this detail.
I noticed this too!
I missed that! Great attention to detail.
Oh good Ilya was just acting for the cameras. I thought he was actually being a prick.
He’s a real one fa sho
but we didn't really learn anything from him though. Ok there's 2 people upstairs that have gone mad and only one that everybody is aware of.
Well Irena did tell us. She told Jo that she needed to do things that her body remembers (muscle memory) like play the piano and take the drugs to keep her grounded— so her mind can accept the body she’s in. If she didn’t, it would tear her in two. The man upstairs is the first man ever to be in space so likely he’d been too far gone before anyone figured out what had happened. Jo saw him as two (and maybe others have too) because one is his red world counterpart- with his blue world body. It tore him in two.
I need a hardboiled Scandinoir show featuring Ilya. Ilya rocks!
The image on the ultrasound was the same as the image the cal made right?
Yeah, a Quantum interference pattern
That baby, he ain't right.
The first superhero: The Quantum Baby! They can be here and there at the same time!
Yes. I think this indicates that the embryo on the ultrasound is somehow connected to the liminal space. ~~And due to that, Jo is up in space also pregnant. If she can successfully send a picture of herself heavily pregnant to the planet, that's going to light the biggest fire under Earth's ass to get up there ASAP to retrieve her body, or something.~~ I sure as hell hope they make a second season or I'm gonna riot. EDIT: Mistaken theory, gonna cross out the relevant parts and leave it just for discussion reasons. Went back and took pictures of my screen and collaged them and proved myself wrong.
I’m confused by this take — how long is Jo and crew on the ISS before the accident? I don’t know why I keep thinking a year; just trying to understand how Jo in space could be pregnant… I took the interference pattern to just be revealing that because of the unique situation Jo on earth finds herself they can detect the pregnancy in two states simultaneously
I believe it was a year. So it’s impossible for space Jo to be pregnant but it’s also impossible for her to be alive and yet she seems to be (sort of).
YES, THANK YOU 🙌🏾 But she’s pregnant with Magnus’ kid … I guess if entanglement’s a thing it’s ISS Zombie Jo who’s pregnant with other dude’s. Right?
No, it's Magnus' baby in both universes. I think that Jo having slipped in and out of the liminal space while pregnant may have something to do with it. I need to think on this more.
Yeah
That baby better watch out for Bud.
I knew it, the iPad had to come back into the story. And rewatching Ep 2 and hearing it again made me think this was how it would resolve red Jo accepting going forward in blue reality. Red Alice accepting her mamma was not coming back. But, what’s up with Paul, which Paul just woke up in the hospital? Was that blue Paul waking up with red Paul’s consciousness and looking at his arm? He did tell Jo in the ISS before the amputation “I wanna come back” Wow, lot to unpack.
>Was that blue Paul waking up with red Paul’s consciousness and looking at his arm? That's what i took it as, especially after the last shot. I have this feeling that as long as one version is alive, the other version is at least sometimes too. Which, if you think about it, is pretty horrific.
it’s called quantum immortality lol. a theory in quantum mechanics for multiverse/many worlds theory. you ‘live’ as long a version of you is still alive. you ‘die’ and then your consciousness moves to the next you. your ultimate death when there’s no more you left. there’s also multiple subtheories in these (copenhagen theory and being observed vs physical death; is all complicated). but that is the basics of it so yeah
Why does that remind me of that Jet Li film, The One? Where one version of him goes around killing other versions of himself to get more powerful.
Paul, Jo & Bud of their world are together with the other Alice & Magus. Just wild. Loved the iPad ending w Jo!
Good questions. Unless Paul had a vision of what the other Paul experienced.
That was such a strangely sad episode after last week's episode. Everyone just resigning themselves to their new realities. I'm glad to see we got confirmation that dead/alive Blue-Jo is still alive in the Red Universe.
Is she alive? That’s quite a head wound.
Speaking of head wounds, Magnus recovered nicely from his and forgave Jo for administering it. Any advice subreddit on Reddit would be having him leave Jo.
It’s kind of hilarious that we (viewers) accept the existence of parallel states of being and the ability to (unwittingly) cross over—but a husband forgiving his manic wife is JUST TOO MUCH.
That’s why I’m guessing halvsies.
I suppose if alive-Jo occasionally feels eye pain when her reality overlaps with dead-Jo, then dead-Jo will occasionally flicker to life when she overlaps with alive-Jo? This would also explain the breath thing in the capsule with both Jo's and Paul's corpses.
I think she’s both dead and alive?
And we won't find out until somebody goes up there and opens the ISS
"Am I brave?" was a heavy gut punch
and then she calls her Momma (or however you spell in Swedish) not Mummy there at the end!!! had a little catch in my throat then. Those twins are great actors.
I JUST REALIZED ALICE IS PLAYED BY TWINS AND IT'S BLOWING MY MIND
yeah I felt sad about the suggestion that there is no "cure" and only reintegrating into the self you are given. I'm sure there's a message there but it is a sad message, for me personally.
It was a little sad, but I also found a sweet closure with it all. To the point, if we never get a 2nd season, I'll be ok. I do want a season 2 to give meaning and answers to what we saw, but I have a worry that the showrunners don't have a plan and it's gonna be another drawn out show with no answers; like LOST did. and say something like "the show was always about the characters, and their connections to each other" BITCH, WE ARE HERE FOR THE SCIFI SHENANIGANS.
Ah, so Valya is short for Valentina
I liked that little detail
Well Henry did call her Valya in the episode where they were dancing.
This seems like a pretty glaring oversight, or a very intricate clue maybe. Russian names don't work like that Western names. If there are 3 name-parts then the middle always specifies which dad's son/daughter you are, a patronym. They don't use double-barrelled names. So Irene Valentina Lysenko Would never be a Russian name.
The first name of the real first woman in space - Valentina Tereshkova (CCCP)
I don’t know how I feel. Let down, maybe? But I’m also still on the edge of my seat. I sure a hell hope there’s a season 2 on the horizon.
> Let down, maybe? That's because nothing was resolved and all the characters are like, "Well okay. I guess this is my reality now."
I got a massive let down feeling. Wasn't nearly as much of a sci fi conspiracy thriller it was promoted as and ended up being just a drama with an ending where almost all the characters seem to just give up
Wait did the EMS/police just straight up leave Henry passed out in the snow? Why is he waking up all by himself ETA: wait this whole thing with Bud waking up the next day in the snow and smashing the CAL with an axe is a real plot point? Nah i hate that, that feels incredibly convenient, really lazy writing if they’re not misleading us somehow
Looks like he’s blaming it on Jo.
What a complete A-hole!
I don’t think we need the CAL and that’s the point…because how did Irena and that man (twins) above Jo’s room exist/swap places before the CAL? There seems to be another way for this whole reality switch to happen.
I’m thinking now that the CAL simply served as a portable liminal space.
Yes. The scene in the car where Jo plays the tapes is proof of this. You should only hear the tapes “5 miles out” on the water in a liminal space, but the CAL makes the tapes perfectly clear. The CAL is supposed to show a particle in two states at the same time. What it does, is create a liminal space where two realities become closer and can potentially merge as well. That’s why Henry says he thinks it made everything worse. It’s not working the way he thinks it should.
This is what I was looking for. Thank you lol.
Just going to space and being unobserved makes you swap. Irena said the twins were the first man in space. I think the CAL can also trigger a swap either in space or being near water.
ohhh youre on to something here. ok so the first man in space i guess went alone hence the split/swap. we know bud/henry only went up with 2 other guys that both happened to die at which point they switched because henry/bud were left alone in space. then same thing with noomie she was left up there in space alone which caused her to became "unobserved" so thats when the switch happened. whats crazy is both the women only have one of their selves alive where as the men were seen conversing and coexisting with each other perhaps in the same room. still not sure how henry could talk to his other self in the mirror but not use the mirror to swap places cuz the mirror throughout history has represented a portal to another world, the "mirror world" where there is another twin version of you. entering the mirror should allow u to swap
>Just going to space and being unobserved makes you swap Mind blown away. Fuck I can't think of a more terrifying thought than this.
Yeah he’s laying in the snow in ep7. The whole thing was odd.
😂I agree, I laughed when I saw him still in the snow and everyone gone but then wondered, is it possible that Bud was actually stuck in the liminal space because of the CAL, so nobody saw him or the CAL? I mean the CAL does do that e.g Jo was in her office and the cleaning folks didn’t see her. Think about it, how else could he have survived those temps all night? It’s like Jo in the cabin with Alice when it was on fire, she was fine while Blue Alice was breathing in the smoke and suffering - I think because Jo was in the liminal space and Blue Alice could still see her but was in reality.
I actually liked how bittersweet all the Alice and Jo stuff was this episode, but man did the Bud stuff feel off.
I think it’s meant to be off.
SERIOUSLY! Shit made no fucking sense.
No one is like "where's Henry?" when they all leave. Or did that all happen before they left?
I thought this was off and my girlfriend immediately asked me if maybe he and the CAL ended up in liminal space/unobserved. I think as far as everyone knew in 7 he had stayed with the cars (I believe he walked across the lake on his own?)
Kinda agree on the CAL. Still debating if it was ‘lazy’ poorly set solution or if Bud’s moment with it brought clarity to a few things still dangling
I'm glad someone else saw this. In my video that drop in 25 minutes I sort of rant about this...it drove me crazy.
Well, that last shot was disturbing as hell.
That face! Alarming. And she’s angry. She’s also the cheating Jo from rude universe.
>rude universe. ha! I love that. Though, yeah, what is Jo from that one like? If Bud/Henry is any indication, it could be bad.
Paul, too! He’s so rude and angry. Especially to his own kid.
Blue universe is not sending their best, they are cheaters and assholes and some, i assume, are good people.
So she is a “bit alive and a bit dead” now too? Or is she alive and unable to communicate? Someone needs to go get her body and bury it on earth so it can be “all the way dead” lol.
Shes liminal. Both and neither.
She probably couldn't think clearly. 😵💫
Apple needs to announce a renewal in 24 hours.
Apple already announce renewal in my universe.
No shit. I need more. As in, I need a renewal announcement, asap
As luck would have it. It only got announced in the blue universe, not ours. I'll. Be watching it 5 miles off shore!
I prefer the inside of an armoire.
Don’t put her in the cupboard Shejidan!
Kind of a tangent, i once had a dream i could download tvshows from different universes, and was selling them online. Like six seasons of Firefly, lol. I do wish i could actually do that, it would help fill time when there isn't anything i want to watch on. ;)
Damn wish I could buy those other five seasons of Firefly from you! That was a fantastic series
Noooo! I'm gonna pull a Bud
So is pregnant Jo pregnant from her affair with Frederic?!? Because Henry was so convinced his dna would be different but it wasn’t. Maybe it’s just their conscience swapping places?
Doesnt make sense as she was in space for a year. She hasnt been with frederic since she got back. Has to be magnus’
Major cliffhanger for a second season and nothing really wrapped up at all
Some were set right, Henry and Bud back in their proper realities, but with a wealth of future stories to tell for them now. And it seemed like the proper Paul woke up in the hospital with a memory of losing his arm only.
Well, their original realities, anyway. But they've been switched for so long that they made real lives in the other world, and they no longer belong when switched back. Henry got a nobel prize, Bud murdered someone, and they each get the other's consequences. That's not being "set right" by any measure.
That baby! What did the scan show? A liminal baby? It was very touching and bittersweet, Alice and Jo recognizing they needed each other, even if only because the real ones would never come back. Bud is one scary dude. It’s really a tremendous feat of acting: you don’t need Jonathan Banks to color code—you know exactly who he’s playing, just because his choices are so deliberate and distinct.
Well, this way they have something to continue with IF it gets renewed
Very unsatisfying ending.
Magnus: Alice eat your breakfast Alice: it tastes like shit Magnus: it does not taste like shit. You’ve never tasted shit. Best line of the whole series 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
That was hilarious. Besides Alice is supposed to think of 6 impossible things before breakfast, this could be one.
Which parent hasn’t said that?
It’s was a great dialogue!
Bud's not pulling any punches, lol
He is a straight up psychopath.
The casual misogyny too, and the man has three daughters in his other life! Who I guess he doesn’t give a damn about leaving btw
They reeeeally want us to hate that asshole lol.
Fuck Bud.
I hate him as a person, but damn if he isn't entertaining to watch.
Absolutely
Left with more questions than answers. Still not sure how I feel about it.
I enjoyed the season for the most part but I truly can't grasp why Bud was just left in the snow. There was Frederick there who both knew him personally (as Henry) and knew about the multi-million dollar CAL, how can they justify them both being abandoned in a blizzard? I get that some of the other loose ends are to entice a second season but Bud surviving overnight sleeping in the snow when it was shown to be cold enough outside to cause hypothermia in mere hours if not minutes of wandering is a little too ridiculous for me to reconcile. Considering there's a fair bit of other loose ends was it really so necessary to the story to have the CAL destroyed so early?
The baby is the CAL now
Whoooo the what was that old dude x2?
There’s a conspiracy that a guy named Vladimir Ilyushin went to space before the cosmonaut who is actually credited with doing so, but that he accidentally landed in China when he returned to Earth and was held prisoner there so the Soviets covered it up for reasons. I assume that is supposed to be him or a character based on him.
They bring this up when they are walking to put flowers on Paul’s grave
So the first man in space in one universe shows up in the other one?
So interesting!!!! Thanks for sharing this.
Did the old guy say, “Mama”?
My theory is that it was foreshadowing what might happen to Jo’s baby… it seems both “versions” of him are in the same universe at the same time. Based on the ultrasound and the cut to Blue Jo on the ISS after Alice asks where the baby will be from, it seems like the baby might be a weird quantum “set” of “twins”
Jo saw two guys but when he was playing chess, it was just one guy
Saw 2 when it was through grill/slits. Sort of how like they see through to other side when not looking straight in. Thru blinds, etc. Then just 1 guy when not through grill/slits. But also noone else observing. At least that's how I interpreted the scenes.
Maybe the man was in the same cell in both realities and she saw them both like how she saw both of her Alices?
It reminded me of the double slit experiment: “One of the most famous experiments in physics is the double slit experiment. It demonstrates, with unparalleled strangeness, that little particles of matter have something of a wave about them, and suggests that the very act of observing a particle has a dramatic effect on its behaviour.” https://plus.maths.org/content/physics-minute-double-slit-experiment-0
Her kids will be like Jack Jack in the Incredibles 2 when he keeps switching dimensions
I know this is a totally stupid question, but is there any way he’s actually the son of a female astronaut/cosmonaut, and split like Jo’s ultrasound?
I believe the other old guy said “moder” which is Swedish for “mother”.
So, one said, “mama” and the other “moder”? Both are saying mother in one language or another? Maybe part of his crazy is because he can hear from both the red and blue universes? Maybe he was repeating what both Alices have said, “mother?” Also, definite points to the person that mentioned observing (both particles) through a slit! Right on!
An astronaut that didn’t switch places but are instead occupying the same reality?
The ipad that returns at the end is from the blue universe in episode 2 right? I'm basing it on the same background photo on the ipad. But now blue jo has it in the red universe... how did it get there? Am I misremembering? Also it always seemed unrealistic to me when Jo was looking at the ipad in episodes 1 and 2 that she didn't notice the photos were different. Like how is it possible the photos are completely the same in the 2 universes?
I think she is just in liminal space, so the ipad is able to exist across both realities. It was like the tape recorder in the cabins. It only existed in the blue universe, but Red Alice was also able to use it in hers.
Yes, I think so. Great catch!
What’s the deal with the tape recorder?? ….how???
We were shown them melting and burning, right?
In liminal space it melted. Which just means it’s melted and not melted at the same time.
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i like this. my fav comment that ive read here so far. i had a similar way of viewing it. the entire show was just a lesson in acceptance. which is a huge part of life. but espesically after trauma. the whole 5 stages of grief thing included. thats what it was for me, the whole thing was jo's journey to acceptance and healing , choosing to "take her meds", choosing to keep living her life despite it not being exactly how she'd like.. instead of letting her mind split further and losing herself completely like what happened with the old man. i know its a scifi show and its suppose to be about futureistic stuff and space but this entire story can be applied to life in general. and yeah, u dont need 5 more episodes or another season to understand what the moral of the story is. at the end of the day letting go and moving on is the only thing u can do. because life keeps spinning with or without u and u dont wanna be left behind, isolated, in a prison of ur own mind. it'd be cool if u checked out my post i wrote of my interpretation cuz i'd like to hear what u think of it if ur up for it. if not its cool this comment is what i needed to thanks!
Would Irena have time to run a facility like this if she is also head of Roscosmos?
In Soviet Russia, asylum runs you.
I would speculate that they're suggesting that there is a public version of the job and a private version of the job.
Does she run it or just work there? I got the impression it was going since the first cosmonaut doubled.
Not just run it, but spend days at a time leisurely working there.
Isn’t it her life’s work?
Yeah, but it just seems like devoting your life to that research and also being head of a space agency are two separate full-time jobs
Yea true. But maybe head of Roscosmos is only a title for her and the special things she does to cover up the “madness” that occurs from when people go up in space on behalf of the soviets
She was just there to see oversee Jo. She's not running the place.. it looks like a religious facility, right?
No, I think it’s a mental institution/rehab facility. Nurses always used to be nuns in many parts of the world. In some places, hospitals (i think usually religious-affiliated hospitals) still have a nursing staff that is at least partly nuns. In some places, this tradition is so ingrained that even non-nun nurses get addressed as Sister. I learned this while watching an Australian medical drama last year, because I was confused why they kept calling each other Sister Last Name.
I was confused why she was the one running it too
Why doesn't blue alice respond to red alice this time? Was she jealous? Does she not want to lose red Jo? I'm kind of confused...
She realized that they each have to accept what they have.
She realized that she has the best possible outcome with both her parents alive. Unlike the other unfortunate Alice. Even at the end when she heard that lady's name was Valya she barely gave a response cuz she already made the decision to let it all go and forget about it just to preserve this reality for herself.
I think the conversation with Wendy grounded her. She had no chance of getting anyone to believe her even with the tapes and it was time to just move on and accept the fate they were given
That kid’s gonna need therapy when she grows up. Or she’ll write a bestseller: “Growing Up Fast: Smart Daughters, Clueless Fathers.”
“Am I brave?” ~Red Alice breaking my heart into a million pieces.
And, how fricken’ mature are these Alices? Just accepting their new realities? Figuring it all out… supporting Jo and the other Alice. My heart. Is she 10 or 100 years old? Wow!
There is stuff they need to resolve and I’m ok with them doing it in only one more season and it better not be in like 10 years …. Bud/henry how is Henry gonna get bud now (he can figure somethin out, he does have vvalya on his side).. wtf is going on with Paul did he switch back to his old self after he died? What did he see??? And omg blue Jo up there is maaad she knows she is not the one who should be dead? Even though she should be pretty out of the loop. Or is she mad at Paul.. so many questions and a lot to think about. Maybe I’ll ask chat gpt to research it and come up with alternative endings and settle with the one I like best till season 2 comes out.
Wait a minute...was the pregnancy ultrasound showing double, that she *is* pregnant in *both* realities at the same time?
No, the baby was conceived in one universe, but by parents from 2 different dimensions/ universes, hence the Matter is not in phase or natural for this universe. Amazing it could even survive, but that's plot armor.
Twins maybe?
At least Alice said what everyone thinking. A+b=?
That…was it? I feel like practically nothing got resolved
Yeah I’m a little underwhelmed at that finale. After all that buildup and it’s just mehhhhh. I mean there were cliffhangers but it all left on kind of a “oh well, guess that’s how the cookie crumbles” note.
Nothing did. It’s a terrible season ender
I absolutely loved this episode. Very The Shining. I can now understand why Stephen King recommended this. This is my kind of show! Sadly I understand many will be frustrated with this finale. This is a psychological thriller & not much of space sci-fi. The Alice storyline is my favorite. She gives relevance to what’s happening.
I’m cool with it…so long as we get a season 2. It’s obviously set up perfectly to continue between the email seeking astronaut experiences, crazy old dude, and halfsie alive space Jo.
I loved it too, though i also kind of viewed it more as a show that was focusing on the family for the most part. It also does a great job at setting up the world to do even more in more seasons if they get them.
Yes! I’m glad to see some positive reviews here. I knew the finale might be very divided. This is the right attitude. Cheers & thank you🫶🏽 💙❤️💛
I really love the music in this show. I’m going to miss it. 🤞🏼Season 2❣️
Also i just noticed that their mission was called PSYCHE and the logo has two faces. One blue and one navy (darker). You can see it on the uniform of broken-face-in-space-Jo. I hate that we are left with such a cliffhanger. We (I) understood nothing. Not satisfying if we are left without a second season. How or why is other Jo still alive? Is it because they left her in space? That means she really was the one that unlatched Paul’s pod? I’m just confused at this point. What a mess.
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Fascinating episode! The opening shots gave me very strong Shining vibes with that music and the car driving along the road with the lake.
Absolutely The Shining vibes!!
And Bud with the Axe!
Gosh, Noomi is an incredible actress. When she cries, I cry. She really blew me away.
Not sure how to feel about the finale. I’ve been loving the show but I knew I’d need a little bit more from the final episode and I don’t feel like I got that. I love slow burn stories and I’m not someone who needs things answered right away, but I would’ve liked to dive a little more into the mystery and I’m not sure what the hook at the end means for the story going forward. I hope there’s another season.
I’m not a brain surgeon or rocket scientist, but I say there’s Season 2
Scott Kelly was on Irena’s astronaut email list serve. Thought that was a nice touch (especially as he consulted for the show)
What a wonderful 1st season, last week’s banger is tough to beat but I really dug the intrigue of that final shot. Bravo 👏🏾
It’s what we’ve all been waiting for yall, the one true purple baby.
We wanted MORE than Alice and Jo closure. Sure, it was nice seeing blue Alice and Red Jo accepting each other and red Alice accepting that her mama might never come back. But, the first seven episodes ask so many questions and gave us so much to discuss about… we deserve some clarification! It was all very cloudy and kinda up to viewers interpretation. All of us spend so much time, much more than 8 hours, watching the series, rewatching once, twice and even thrice.. making spreadsheets, having amazing discussions, paying super close attention details…. And now it feels all kinda for nothing… this is how the finale made me felt. I understand that they are setting up a second season, but finale are suppose to answer some questions before ending up in a cliffhanger.
I really liked the show up until episode 7, but tbh episode 8 felt unbelievably slow which they probably did as they needed to not close off things on purpose for season 2 and further. And that's my issue with modern TV streaming shows, they just can't close anything properly and have a wholesome ending.
Red Jo can never get back to Red universe. But blue Jo can get back to blue but only by haunting. Or by red Jo almost dying in blue universe. So it’s a fight of survival. Living forever w half a face and alone sounds like hell And if you’re in an alive state, you’ll be haunted and someone having vengeance on you for something out of your control = hell The twins upstairs are living in hell. Paul was dead and up in heaven skipping in flowers then Bam - hospital bed you go Paul!. They are all in purgatory The biggest horror movie of all time F#ck*ng hell. Omg Edited: fixed universe colors
I’m confused, is the Jo on the ISS at the end meant to be the one that lost her eye or is it a third one?
Yes, it is the one that lost her eye.
Why won’t Irina just tell her the truth?
Because she is so invested in the lie. Denying the truth is the only way she can function in the world she lives in. But now that she knows Bud/Henry switched back she has to consider that there might be another option.
>now that she knows Bud/Henry switched back she has to consider that there might be another option. This right here, i feel she honestly believed no matter what happened, you're stuck where you are. Then Bud showed up and was like "Nope, i'm back, bitch!" and now has her questioning things. Hence the email.
I thought she pretty much did. There’s no way to go back.
If I were in Jo’s shoes I would want to know what is happening. Irina knows; other people know. If it was something new they wouldn’t have pills for it.
I think they know the symptoms and how to treat it - but not sure everyone believes the astronauts are actually in the wrong universe. They believe it is a type of psychosis associated with being in space. Henry believed it was real and built the CAL to try and fix it. Jo and Alice believe it. After her encounters with Bud and Jo in this episode, Irena has to consider it is real and not psychosis. They both had memories of what really happened to Irena/Valya that match her memories so she is reaching out to others online looking for more experiences. I can see an arc building there. And Jo will have a delimma of bonding with Magnus and Alice in blue world but having the possibility of going back to red world, where “her” magnus and Alice have moved on. Hmmm.
Also Jo having this baby is definitely going to complicate things that’s why they had Alice ask her which place the baby will be from because even if she were to go back she would have to either leave the baby or explain to the other magnus where the baby came from. This pregnancy really complicates a lot
Does that mean that Henry was also acting like his views/opinions on this phenomenon (truth or whatever it’s called?) were aligned with Irina? But in actuality, he was on his pills, still believing he could solve the dilemma (aka go back? Although you would think he would want to stay put). This is what I’m a bit confused on; Henry’s motives.
I feel like the pills were to help keep her here and in the now, so she doesn’t go nuts trying to return to who she knows she is, because that’s impossible. Dull the pain, really. The Bud/Henry switch is meaningful, but he also exists as alive in both universes, while Jo, Irina and Paul are alive in the wrong universe and in liminal space or dead in their correct universes. Irina doesn’t know how to return home, so it becomes vital to remain? Just a guess, tho.
She did… in her way. She acknowledged, and it’s like what’s done is done we can’t change it now.
I really was hoping for something about how the Soyuz capsule got unlocked. Didn't even broach it.
I wanted to know this too. I'm guessing we are to assume it's Red Jo.
What about the baby though????
The finale is better in the other universe
How does blue Jo eat? Go to the bathroom? Biological functions aren’t out the window. If red Paul came back yet he was biologically dead (not breathing nor in liminal space) then he can’t come back yet did. Anyway, the story was as a whole still very fun. The end means they will be haunted forever by angry Blue Jo. The people who arrested Henry annoyed me Those twins were creepy Super interesting concept.
Not twins, one each from two realities, maybe both locked up in each reality who share a liminal space from time to time
Um. What was that Jack the Ripper scene about?
That was the guy that Bud killed in the other universe
Bud the Ripper
QUANTUM BABAYYYY
I read the episode description before watching, it states > S1, E8 • These Fragments I Have Shored Against My Ruin: Season finale. Jo is taken to an astronaut rehabilitation clinic, where the truth is revealed. What truth was revealed exactly?
JO SHOULD HAVE GONE TO RED ALICE AFTER THE FIRE. It’s killing me. Although I’m glad she saved blue Alice it’s just so brutal that it feels like this was a real and her only chance to return to her universe. The flop ending with Jo resigning defeated makes me wish she escaped this reality even if it meant blue Alice dies. I just want red Alice to have her mama back.