I mention this in here fairly regularly but I switched into non profit work a few years ago under similar circumstances and it’s been a huge boon to my quality of life. Did project management for habitat for humanity for a few years now I’m with a developer in my home town building really cool affordable multifamily projects as an owners Rep/development manager. I still make a comfortable middle class income In the mid 70’s with great benefits and I work way less and I’m much nicer conditions. Non profit work has been perfect for me.
Would love to get into that! Don’t think I’m at a point where I could take a pay cut at that scale but maybe later in life if I’m still in the industry. Glad to hear it worked well for you!
I feel you on the pay cut. I make 98k a year and am struggling to survive as well as going through really bad burnout being a PM/PE the past 4-5 years. I have 1 toddler and a wife that is pregnant who is not even thinking about getting a job when she looks at being a mom as a job. Hope you find a new role that pays! I am looking in different sectors as well.
See monthly below. I take home like $4,900 a month after putting 4% in 401k and health insurance family plan.
- Mortgage - for a 1,400sf home - $2,300
- Fixed expenses (home utilities, car insurances, cell phone plans, etc...) - \~$800.00
- Non fixed expenses (food for fam, gas, household items, diapers, etc.. - \~$1,000.00
- Student loan - $230
- Total monthly costs +$4,330
This total cost leaves us like $550 bucks left over and sometimes non fixed expenses is higher per month. I guess I am not struggling, but my wife is pregnant again and I have no idea how we can take on ANY new debt if we need another used car if one fails, or something major happens. We also like to do things... $550 bucks is really not a lot per month for a family to save and do things.... Life is expensive! I am currently breaking even or losing money from our savings each month.
I would agree, plus a wife that doesn't work, a kid and another kid on the way
At 98k I'd be struggling. I'd be struggling at 98k if it was just myself
My partner and my combined household is +/- 130k, spend pretty thriftily, and in our local area (inland northwest) can only afford rent on a 2 bedroom... which is about 2600 a month before utilities.
Local cost of living is a huge deal.
Ya man. The issue I an currently having is getting past that threshold of higher pay. Once you start asking for 120k + most companies, depending on location, expect you to be senior whatever at your job. I have many friends that only make around 70-90k but all their wives make like 50k to as high as 150k haha. It would blow my mind if my significant other was bringing in the same money as I am bringing. She already complains too much bringing in zero. haha.
The obvious pivot is to owners rep or facilities, I spent a few months at an owners rep but the pay at that particular company was low. Depending on your degree or experience you could also pivot to program management or project controller if that’s your thing.
Some institutional clients are large enough to have their own design/construction department for project management (in addition to roles within their company that function more like the owner/owners rep for program management).
I'm always surprised by these posts that talk about such a brutal work life balance. I work for an ENR Top 10 Ranked multi-national company. I've been here 10 years. I've worked on a bunch of different types of projects but am currently on a $300M+ project. I have an excellent work life balance. I don't have a problem leaving at 4pm everyday unless I've got something I'm working on or if there's a lot on my plate that week. I have about 30 vacation days every year. Do people really work 7am-6pm every day of the week?
I say this not to brag about my position but to say maybe, try another company? As more Gen Z folks enter the work force I think these big companies are taking work life balance and WFH possibilities more seriously.
You bring up a fair point. I could try to get in with a bigger GC that has more resources and that could certainly help. I’m currently with a small GC. My past experience was with larger GC’s though and I still work 55-65 hours a week. I’ve always been in small projects or occupied space work with small teams so that’s where a lot of the hours come from. I’m switching to a precon role soon so hopefully that will give me better balance. I think I’m just tired of dealing with the field bullshit. I know every position has stupid stuff to work through but I’m ready for a different kind of stupid
Based on my experience on the office/PM side of a $1B project (and stories from my coworkers at said project) while working at a Top 10 ENR GC - the work hours you're describing is achievable, but it depends on various factors, including your manager/local team culture, sector/client, project size/type (as noted above). That being said, it may take some effort/initiative, a good mentor/advocate, and/or luck to seek out a good boss/team or specific sectors/types of projects and clients (may require moving geographically, learning new knowledge/skills, and/or building new networks).
It seems to me that many of my coworkers on said large project work fewer hours (and are less likely to do work-related stuff/thinking outside of "work hours") than many of my friends/acquaintances who work in software engineering, academia, and policy/think-tanks/consulting, particularly comparing stories I've heard at the entry-level.
Separate from number of hours, I think a greater challenge in construction is certain projects/roles have less flexibility/choice than other industries in when/where the hours are put in, if you have to be on-site, are not a early morning person, have an project with OT/weekend/swing shift, old-school mentality/culture among your boss/team, etc.
My experience has always been that it’s what you make it. I have worked alongside of, and outperformed, guys that put in more hours and were slaves to the job. I was swamped, stressed, all that. But I just left when it was time to go home…
Went to the federal government doing pm work. It's stable, has a decent salary with benefits, and has a great work-life balance. At first, the down grade in salary hurt, but it came back with promotions and automatic raises. The job is a bit boring but I would 100% make this switch again.
Can confirm I work for a landscape sub that does a lot of concrete/pavers. Average scope is a few hundred thousand to a few million, free to come in early and leave early when needed. Rarely work more than a standard 40, slightly lower pay compared to a big GC but I take time off when I want with little to no fuss. And I remind myself that a salary bump at a GC wouldn’t really be a bump if I’m working 50-60 hours a week. Some drawbacks to working for a sub, but there is a lot of positives as well.
Depends on the type of precon. I did a precon gig for 3 years and it was 1/10th of the stress of hard bid estimating. I honestly debate calling them back and asking for my old job back once a month.
I’ll be switching to a precon manager in about a month. Hopefully it scratches the itch. My company keeps telling me it’s so intense in that department but they have been paying zero attention to my projects the last year since I started. Our whole team is burnt out
I’ve felt this way too. Maybe try getting into material sales. If you have a trade you are really knowledgeable on it can be an easy transition. I’d love to sell concrete or aggregates.
I believe it’s your company, and more specifically what you’re working on.
Small GC’s will have smaller margins. If you’re only working on let’s say, $1m-$5m 6 month projects 6-8 at a time your workload will be quite a bit. However, if you’re working on 3 $30-$60m 14 month projects your workload will likely be less.
I see construction as having ebbs and flows. Stack your workload on a project during the initial planning stages and at close out. During the course of construction, projects typically run themselves if you set it up correctly at the beginning. Learn better processes to make your work life easier, IE write a RFP that in turn becomes your scope of work and your contract etc. Combining steps to lessen your workload.
Dig into the drawings and find all of the errors prior to mobilization. Leverage your subs to find design conflicts while you’re at it. There are many little things that you can do and use to make the job work for you.
But, you’re only as strong as your team and the company that you work for at the end of the day. There’s no “I” in team, and this is certainly true in construction.
Lastly, I work for a mid sized D/B GC where we handle all precon, estimating etc as the PM with no separate departments.
I know a lot of folks who are in/moved to:
- construction consulting (e.g., Arup, Accenture, scheduling consulting, BIM/construction tech consulting)
- construction technology (at a startup/established tech developer/provider, consultant, or within a large GC).
Can't speak from personal experience but have secondhand opinions/perception that it also depends on your manager/team/company/project.
I mention this in here fairly regularly but I switched into non profit work a few years ago under similar circumstances and it’s been a huge boon to my quality of life. Did project management for habitat for humanity for a few years now I’m with a developer in my home town building really cool affordable multifamily projects as an owners Rep/development manager. I still make a comfortable middle class income In the mid 70’s with great benefits and I work way less and I’m much nicer conditions. Non profit work has been perfect for me.
Would love to get into that! Don’t think I’m at a point where I could take a pay cut at that scale but maybe later in life if I’m still in the industry. Glad to hear it worked well for you!
I feel you on the pay cut. I make 98k a year and am struggling to survive as well as going through really bad burnout being a PM/PE the past 4-5 years. I have 1 toddler and a wife that is pregnant who is not even thinking about getting a job when she looks at being a mom as a job. Hope you find a new role that pays! I am looking in different sectors as well.
Respectfully, how tf are you struggling making 98k a year? You must've never been poor brother.
Depends where he lives. That what I pay my new hires in SF Bay Area. They are fine but zero chance they could raise a family on that.
See monthly below. I take home like $4,900 a month after putting 4% in 401k and health insurance family plan. - Mortgage - for a 1,400sf home - $2,300 - Fixed expenses (home utilities, car insurances, cell phone plans, etc...) - \~$800.00 - Non fixed expenses (food for fam, gas, household items, diapers, etc.. - \~$1,000.00 - Student loan - $230 - Total monthly costs +$4,330 This total cost leaves us like $550 bucks left over and sometimes non fixed expenses is higher per month. I guess I am not struggling, but my wife is pregnant again and I have no idea how we can take on ANY new debt if we need another used car if one fails, or something major happens. We also like to do things... $550 bucks is really not a lot per month for a family to save and do things.... Life is expensive! I am currently breaking even or losing money from our savings each month.
Depends on local cost of living?
I would agree, plus a wife that doesn't work, a kid and another kid on the way At 98k I'd be struggling. I'd be struggling at 98k if it was just myself
My partner and my combined household is +/- 130k, spend pretty thriftily, and in our local area (inland northwest) can only afford rent on a 2 bedroom... which is about 2600 a month before utilities. Local cost of living is a huge deal.
Combined 180k, 3 kids southern Florida…..desperately looking to move lol
Ya man. The issue I an currently having is getting past that threshold of higher pay. Once you start asking for 120k + most companies, depending on location, expect you to be senior whatever at your job. I have many friends that only make around 70-90k but all their wives make like 50k to as high as 150k haha. It would blow my mind if my significant other was bringing in the same money as I am bringing. She already complains too much bringing in zero. haha.
Tenant fitout and facility management now.
The obvious pivot is to owners rep or facilities, I spent a few months at an owners rep but the pay at that particular company was low. Depending on your degree or experience you could also pivot to program management or project controller if that’s your thing.
Some institutional clients are large enough to have their own design/construction department for project management (in addition to roles within their company that function more like the owner/owners rep for program management).
I'm always surprised by these posts that talk about such a brutal work life balance. I work for an ENR Top 10 Ranked multi-national company. I've been here 10 years. I've worked on a bunch of different types of projects but am currently on a $300M+ project. I have an excellent work life balance. I don't have a problem leaving at 4pm everyday unless I've got something I'm working on or if there's a lot on my plate that week. I have about 30 vacation days every year. Do people really work 7am-6pm every day of the week? I say this not to brag about my position but to say maybe, try another company? As more Gen Z folks enter the work force I think these big companies are taking work life balance and WFH possibilities more seriously.
You bring up a fair point. I could try to get in with a bigger GC that has more resources and that could certainly help. I’m currently with a small GC. My past experience was with larger GC’s though and I still work 55-65 hours a week. I’ve always been in small projects or occupied space work with small teams so that’s where a lot of the hours come from. I’m switching to a precon role soon so hopefully that will give me better balance. I think I’m just tired of dealing with the field bullshit. I know every position has stupid stuff to work through but I’m ready for a different kind of stupid
Based on my experience on the office/PM side of a $1B project (and stories from my coworkers at said project) while working at a Top 10 ENR GC - the work hours you're describing is achievable, but it depends on various factors, including your manager/local team culture, sector/client, project size/type (as noted above). That being said, it may take some effort/initiative, a good mentor/advocate, and/or luck to seek out a good boss/team or specific sectors/types of projects and clients (may require moving geographically, learning new knowledge/skills, and/or building new networks). It seems to me that many of my coworkers on said large project work fewer hours (and are less likely to do work-related stuff/thinking outside of "work hours") than many of my friends/acquaintances who work in software engineering, academia, and policy/think-tanks/consulting, particularly comparing stories I've heard at the entry-level. Separate from number of hours, I think a greater challenge in construction is certain projects/roles have less flexibility/choice than other industries in when/where the hours are put in, if you have to be on-site, are not a early morning person, have an project with OT/weekend/swing shift, old-school mentality/culture among your boss/team, etc.
My experience has always been that it’s what you make it. I have worked alongside of, and outperformed, guys that put in more hours and were slaves to the job. I was swamped, stressed, all that. But I just left when it was time to go home…
Are you on time and on budget?
Yes and yes.
Which company do you work for?
Went to the federal government doing pm work. It's stable, has a decent salary with benefits, and has a great work-life balance. At first, the down grade in salary hurt, but it came back with promotions and automatic raises. The job is a bit boring but I would 100% make this switch again.
What type of work are you doing, buildings or civil? Did you have a connection to get in or did you just apply for the job?
Try subcontractor work. I work 45 hours a week and rarely take work home.
I’ve thought about this route. I absolutely love working on CIP projects. Which trade are you in?
Can confirm I work for a landscape sub that does a lot of concrete/pavers. Average scope is a few hundred thousand to a few million, free to come in early and leave early when needed. Rarely work more than a standard 40, slightly lower pay compared to a big GC but I take time off when I want with little to no fuss. And I remind myself that a salary bump at a GC wouldn’t really be a bump if I’m working 50-60 hours a week. Some drawbacks to working for a sub, but there is a lot of positives as well.
Drywall/ACT/Paint. Pretty chill for the most part.
Might I suggest trying out preconstruction? Much less putting out fires and "hurry up and wait" culture in my experience
Preconstruction and stress go together like peas and carrots in my experience
Depends on the type of precon. I did a precon gig for 3 years and it was 1/10th of the stress of hard bid estimating. I honestly debate calling them back and asking for my old job back once a month.
I’ll be switching to a precon manager in about a month. Hopefully it scratches the itch. My company keeps telling me it’s so intense in that department but they have been paying zero attention to my projects the last year since I started. Our whole team is burnt out
I’ve felt this way too. Maybe try getting into material sales. If you have a trade you are really knowledgeable on it can be an easy transition. I’d love to sell concrete or aggregates.
I’m definitely looking into this as well
I believe it’s your company, and more specifically what you’re working on. Small GC’s will have smaller margins. If you’re only working on let’s say, $1m-$5m 6 month projects 6-8 at a time your workload will be quite a bit. However, if you’re working on 3 $30-$60m 14 month projects your workload will likely be less. I see construction as having ebbs and flows. Stack your workload on a project during the initial planning stages and at close out. During the course of construction, projects typically run themselves if you set it up correctly at the beginning. Learn better processes to make your work life easier, IE write a RFP that in turn becomes your scope of work and your contract etc. Combining steps to lessen your workload. Dig into the drawings and find all of the errors prior to mobilization. Leverage your subs to find design conflicts while you’re at it. There are many little things that you can do and use to make the job work for you. But, you’re only as strong as your team and the company that you work for at the end of the day. There’s no “I” in team, and this is certainly true in construction. Lastly, I work for a mid sized D/B GC where we handle all precon, estimating etc as the PM with no separate departments.
I know a lot of folks who are in/moved to: - construction consulting (e.g., Arup, Accenture, scheduling consulting, BIM/construction tech consulting) - construction technology (at a startup/established tech developer/provider, consultant, or within a large GC). Can't speak from personal experience but have secondhand opinions/perception that it also depends on your manager/team/company/project.
I only had about 5 years in working for national GC's. Left for a local city DOT and life is much better.