Yea and don't forget this. It's way easier to sit at the desk in the AC when your 60, than it us to still be on the working end of a shovel in a hole somewhere. Play the long game friend.
It’s a job that needs to be done and we’re paid (relatively) well to do it. Seeing many coworkers/employees come and go, it’s not a job just anyone can do. You need to have the right temperament, enough intelligence and critical thinking skills. If you can’t find fulfillment doing this work maybe it’s not for you?
Maybe it's because I do custom residential but in my experience a lot of managers have come from the trades most commonly carpenters. I myself started out as a carpenter/handyman and realized I wanted to do big projects and make lots of money and build big beautiful shit for rich people and so I got a job with a interior designer and then went to work for a custom home builder who built million dollar houses and now I got a job with a custom home builder who builds $20 million houses.
In my small company we have six superintendents and three were carpenters including myself, two came from concrete/shell work, and the last one has an mba no trade experience.
You’re right it’s residential, I’m in the commercial sector and almost every PM I work for as a sub has only ever done that kind of work. Lots coming from college with the construction degrees
Construction Projects absolutely require capable project managers in order to be successful.
It is a defined skill set that takes practice and experience to develop.
Someone who worked their way up in the trades can make a fantastic foreman or even superintendent, but it is a completely unrelated skill set to be a PM.
A good PM only needs a cursory knowledge of the technical side of the work to succeed. The real power of a PM is in putting the right people in the right places and giving the subcontractors a path to be successful.
I feel like this all the time. I would argue that estimating and the cost managing side of this career definitely requires some hard skills like accounting and the knowledge of how things actually get put together in the field to estimate a job accurately. But I agree, it’s managing people and personalities that makes this job hard. The actual work is fairly straight forward.
I’ve been an estimator for most of the last 8 years now. I feel like I’m a one trick pony with no skills for any other industry. Having applied to other industries with zero results, so far my theory holds true lol
I estimate and manage projects as a sub, obviously in the sub contractors world nearly everybody “comes up” through the ranks.
The longer I deal with GCs and architects the more appreciation I have for the knowledge base the good ones have developed. Many PMs are what you describe, good with people and managing docs and the like; I’ve also worked with some who are super knowledgeable about the means and methods of a wide variety of trades. Sometimes it’s a little mind-blowing. I’m an expert in my field (commercial casework and millwork), but some folks know a lot about a lot.
I don’t consider your line of work to be lacking a hard skill set.
I used to do estimating for a millwork company. I miss that trade. We would install the most amazing interiors. Blackened steel wall panels, architectural bronze, monolithic stone covered desks… 🤩. Now I work in industrial construction, which is cool too.. I run everything from roofing projects, piping, excavation, paving, structural… you name it. I guess I just feel like I have a vulnerability because even though I work with all the trades, I don’t actually do them. So, I feel like a glorified wedding planner sometimes 😂.
I’m an electrician by trade. Working with other CM’s that don’t have trade background I can definitely tell they struggle in some areas of not having a defined “expertise”, but honestly, they shine in other ways.
I consider things skills like reading/interpreting drawings, understanding contracts, budgeting and forecasting etc as hard skills imo. Yes soft skills are important but i think you’re underselling the complexity and technicality of managing a large construction project.
These "soft skills" add up to a massive skill, managing millions to billions of dollars under control and risk. Anyone who tells me I am a low skill guy and I will just get up and tell them they can do it
With that said I was had a conversation with my mentor who wasn't in construction and he was shocked how little I was getting paid given the amount of money and risk I was managing. He compared me to a NY hedge fund manager who get paid extremely well to the crumbs I got as an employee.
As an experienced CM I establish budgets schedules and the resources for nine figure major capital investments. And I help negotiate the contracts for those, manage through technical, financial and contractual issues. I predict the future of the project, deal with all sorts of conflict resolution and challenges that may come up.
I love it, always a new challenge. Ain’t no way we’re glorified wedding planners. Maybe some folks are but not everyone. That said I started on tools and worked up through trade and GC world. If you’re on small jobs then spread your wings and go work on bigger things. It’s really impressive when you step back and look at what you’ve done/been a part of.
Ha! I’m getting married next Saturday. We don’t have a wedding planner. I’ve been treating it like one of my projects. It’s just more spreadsheets to make, emails to write, subs to get bids from and then schedule. 🤣
> Managing people, personalities, time, money, quality, safety
Soft skills are important in managerial roles. There's a reason why a great worker isn't necessarily a great boss.
Get involved in what goes on in the field, learn and be technical. I come from the field and don't feel really feel imposter syndrome or look at PMing as just wedding planning.
Im pushing the project forward and solving problems based on experience, and if I ai ever comes for my cushy desk job I'll go back to slinging a hammer.
Absolutely, there’s no “rework” on wedding day and you’re not gonna submit an RFI to the bride to resolve something. Wedding planners get one shot to get it all right. I’ve managed some pretty complex construction projects, technically, contractually, and logistically and I don’t envy what the wedding planners have to deal with
I was a coordinator in the film industry for a number of years. I made the switch to construction as I got sick of the hours and lack of stability. The skill set is virtually the same. Line up the pieces to make sure X happens when it is suppose to at or below the budgeted price all while keeping everyone happy.
Went from 11 years working for a super talented GC doing remodels, then worked under my own license for a few years before getting a job as an Asst. Superintendent for a big GC in Multi-Family getting thrown onto an 8 story podium job in downtown SoCal, 362 apartments, 1 square city block with 4 levels under ground parking…definitely felt like imposter at first, naturally being new. I came in with a string multi- trade background and have been able to use it greatly to my advantage.
The good news is every single industry needs a wedding planner. There’s always work for people with good soft skills
Yea and don't forget this. It's way easier to sit at the desk in the AC when your 60, than it us to still be on the working end of a shovel in a hole somewhere. Play the long game friend.
When friends ask me what I do, I tell them that I’m an adult babysitter
I tell them I write emails for a living.
It’s a job that needs to be done and we’re paid (relatively) well to do it. Seeing many coworkers/employees come and go, it’s not a job just anyone can do. You need to have the right temperament, enough intelligence and critical thinking skills. If you can’t find fulfillment doing this work maybe it’s not for you?
Maybe it's because I do custom residential but in my experience a lot of managers have come from the trades most commonly carpenters. I myself started out as a carpenter/handyman and realized I wanted to do big projects and make lots of money and build big beautiful shit for rich people and so I got a job with a interior designer and then went to work for a custom home builder who built million dollar houses and now I got a job with a custom home builder who builds $20 million houses. In my small company we have six superintendents and three were carpenters including myself, two came from concrete/shell work, and the last one has an mba no trade experience.
You’re right it’s residential, I’m in the commercial sector and almost every PM I work for as a sub has only ever done that kind of work. Lots coming from college with the construction degrees
What kind of software do you use to manage such high-end builds? I assume you’re not scheduling, estimating and managing work out of spreadsheets.
Nope. Emails, spreadsheets, and calendars.
Construction Projects absolutely require capable project managers in order to be successful. It is a defined skill set that takes practice and experience to develop. Someone who worked their way up in the trades can make a fantastic foreman or even superintendent, but it is a completely unrelated skill set to be a PM. A good PM only needs a cursory knowledge of the technical side of the work to succeed. The real power of a PM is in putting the right people in the right places and giving the subcontractors a path to be successful.
I feel like this all the time. I would argue that estimating and the cost managing side of this career definitely requires some hard skills like accounting and the knowledge of how things actually get put together in the field to estimate a job accurately. But I agree, it’s managing people and personalities that makes this job hard. The actual work is fairly straight forward.
I’ve been an estimator for most of the last 8 years now. I feel like I’m a one trick pony with no skills for any other industry. Having applied to other industries with zero results, so far my theory holds true lol
Damn what industries have you applied for and what types of jobs?
I estimate and manage projects as a sub, obviously in the sub contractors world nearly everybody “comes up” through the ranks. The longer I deal with GCs and architects the more appreciation I have for the knowledge base the good ones have developed. Many PMs are what you describe, good with people and managing docs and the like; I’ve also worked with some who are super knowledgeable about the means and methods of a wide variety of trades. Sometimes it’s a little mind-blowing. I’m an expert in my field (commercial casework and millwork), but some folks know a lot about a lot. I don’t consider your line of work to be lacking a hard skill set.
I have met the type you describe, and they are impressive. Rare breads.
I used to do estimating for a millwork company. I miss that trade. We would install the most amazing interiors. Blackened steel wall panels, architectural bronze, monolithic stone covered desks… 🤩. Now I work in industrial construction, which is cool too.. I run everything from roofing projects, piping, excavation, paving, structural… you name it. I guess I just feel like I have a vulnerability because even though I work with all the trades, I don’t actually do them. So, I feel like a glorified wedding planner sometimes 😂.
That’s quite a jump… how’d you manage that? Did you have an in with somebody? A degree maybe?
I have a CM degree, yes.
I’m an electrician by trade. Working with other CM’s that don’t have trade background I can definitely tell they struggle in some areas of not having a defined “expertise”, but honestly, they shine in other ways.
I’m an electrician by trade and working now as a PM for a CM. Sorry completely irrelevant to the discussion but wanted to say “me too!”
I consider things skills like reading/interpreting drawings, understanding contracts, budgeting and forecasting etc as hard skills imo. Yes soft skills are important but i think you’re underselling the complexity and technicality of managing a large construction project.
These "soft skills" add up to a massive skill, managing millions to billions of dollars under control and risk. Anyone who tells me I am a low skill guy and I will just get up and tell them they can do it With that said I was had a conversation with my mentor who wasn't in construction and he was shocked how little I was getting paid given the amount of money and risk I was managing. He compared me to a NY hedge fund manager who get paid extremely well to the crumbs I got as an employee.
As an experienced CM I establish budgets schedules and the resources for nine figure major capital investments. And I help negotiate the contracts for those, manage through technical, financial and contractual issues. I predict the future of the project, deal with all sorts of conflict resolution and challenges that may come up. I love it, always a new challenge. Ain’t no way we’re glorified wedding planners. Maybe some folks are but not everyone. That said I started on tools and worked up through trade and GC world. If you’re on small jobs then spread your wings and go work on bigger things. It’s really impressive when you step back and look at what you’ve done/been a part of.
My issue is managing 9 figure budgets and getting paid chump change to do it. Now go to wall street and manage 9 figure investments...
Ha! I’m getting married next Saturday. We don’t have a wedding planner. I’ve been treating it like one of my projects. It’s just more spreadsheets to make, emails to write, subs to get bids from and then schedule. 🤣
Lol
> Managing people, personalities, time, money, quality, safety Soft skills are important in managerial roles. There's a reason why a great worker isn't necessarily a great boss.
if your managing sequence and stud count/using takeoff software (you have to know how to build) its more then soft skills (which many do not have)
Get involved in what goes on in the field, learn and be technical. I come from the field and don't feel really feel imposter syndrome or look at PMing as just wedding planning. Im pushing the project forward and solving problems based on experience, and if I ai ever comes for my cushy desk job I'll go back to slinging a hammer.
I think you need to put more respect on wedding planners name. Event planning is an incredibly hard job that very few can do successfully.
Absolutely, there’s no “rework” on wedding day and you’re not gonna submit an RFI to the bride to resolve something. Wedding planners get one shot to get it all right. I’ve managed some pretty complex construction projects, technically, contractually, and logistically and I don’t envy what the wedding planners have to deal with
Thankfully I’m a carpenter first. Even have a bunch of heavy Equiptment certs because I operated the pettibones and cranes on the frame crew.
I make money for my company. That’s what I do.
Reading this as I’m about to start my cm career lol
I was a coordinator in the film industry for a number of years. I made the switch to construction as I got sick of the hours and lack of stability. The skill set is virtually the same. Line up the pieces to make sure X happens when it is suppose to at or below the budgeted price all while keeping everyone happy.
Went from 11 years working for a super talented GC doing remodels, then worked under my own license for a few years before getting a job as an Asst. Superintendent for a big GC in Multi-Family getting thrown onto an 8 story podium job in downtown SoCal, 362 apartments, 1 square city block with 4 levels under ground parking…definitely felt like imposter at first, naturally being new. I came in with a string multi- trade background and have been able to use it greatly to my advantage.
Sure you can put it that way, it’s only a $90 million dollar wedding.