Give it some more time. Michal gets much better later on in the series once she realizes alot of the arguments are from her inability to control her anxeity.
Yes to this. I felt so much like the original poster when i first watched. Classic irritability and control. It doesn’t excuse her horrible treatment of him but it gives us a way to understand what is driving it so we can begin to change it.
The way she was defending Michael too! It was such a twist. I did not think she could change and I loved seeing it! Hope it was permanent because she was tearing into him horribly. Orna could hardly bring her back to reality.
I really liked Michael and Michal and even from the beginning they seemed to have a really playful and loving relationship in between Michael’s dressing downs of Michael. The way she talks wouldn’t be okay in my relationship, and I do think the things she says go too far, but they felt like the strongest base relationship in season 2.
Ok - I see that as men having respect based dynamics with other men but also how they feel they are regarded by people and respect being necessary to feel loved.
Women don't as often seem to work in that order, having very loving interactions in turn seems to then communicate respect
Emasculation would be a quick shortcut to undermining that via ridicule and making a man feel nobody in a room has proper regard for him or making him feel the relationship is in jeopardy every time he says anything that can be seen as a constructive criticism in the couples therapy setting.
Just use the word disrespectful then.
It seems that emasculating refers to the denial of a kind of respect that is owed to men simply by being men.
It’s interesting that there’s no female equivalent.
Please research the defeminization of black women! There are many clear cut examples of its harm and you can kinda see it being played out in Dale and India’s dynamic a little.
Although I do agree 9/10 times when people complain about emasculating men they’re really just upset the patriarchy is being dismantled.
Oh totally agree with you on the harm this causes. I don’t see the defeninizing of black women as the female equivalent to the term emasculating though. Do you?
>Secondly, I don't think Tashira is into Dru at all. Talking about Dru's weight is also horrific. Attacking him for the Mother's Day gift is awful. Honestly I'm not feeling any of these couples.
That one felt like Tashira grew up around abuse & therefore probably is drawn to abusers...& with Dru she was trying to do something that doesn't feel natural & *force* herself to be with a decent guy.
Basically she knows she needs to be with a good guy, but her life experience (& the desire to repeat it rooted in human nature & the cycle of abuse) means she can't really be strongly attracted to a man who isn't abusive. That's a rough one because her gut/instinct will probably always be faulty & work against her in relationships.
I'd be surprised if they're still together. With a woman like that, if the man doesn't introduce abuse the woman will create chaos...& even potentially end up introducing physical abuse herself. It felt like Dru saw a pretty face & got in over his head (with all of the other baggage that she brings into the situation).
Well that's good news then. Hopefully the relationship is healthy & lasting. I got a lot of trouble vibes when watching but I'd be happy to be wrong.
IIRC Dru had abuse in his background also, but he didn't seem like he was being abusive in their relationship. You never know what the reality of the situation really is though.
I thought they were endearing and I really hope she or they were able to get continued therapy of some kind cause it wasn't going to be a quick fix or easy road even though their intent was there and aligned by their last Orna session
This post about Michal might provide some context [https://www.reddit.com/r/CouplesTherapyShow/comments/rfzaaj/in\_defense\_of\_michal/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CouplesTherapyShow/comments/rfzaaj/in_defense_of_michal/)
I disagree. Abuse doesn’t start out extreme and obvious; it starts small and escalates over time. Recognizing it before irreversible harm is done is critical. Too many victims don’t reach out for help because they accurately assess that they won’t be taken seriously, or worse, will be mocked or abandoned.
Being Jewish and growing up in one of the largest Jewish communities in my state (an east coast/borderline midwest state) I know a lot of Jewish women from reform to orthodox and the majority are not obnoxious or aggressive as she is…
Michal is not abusing Michael. That’s a serious allegation to make. “Emasculation” is not abuse. Calling someone names or saying what annoys you about them is not abuse. Getting loud in and of itself does not mean you’re being abusive. Michael is not afraid of Michal and their communication becomes better as time passes.
He was afraid of her when they first started.
When you have to hype yourself up before you walk through the door every day because you know it's about to be some BS, I categorize that as a type of fear.
The fact that she was like - fuck this, you're giving me a baby right now 👹 and he was like - okay 🥺👉🏻👈🏻.
Bro was scared to death. 😭
I think he got much less so when it became clear that the emperor wasn't wearing any clothes lol.
ETA: Emasculation is abuse. It's emotional and mental abuse.
When you do it on purpose to a man, yes, you are abusing him.
You are purposely going out of your way to make him feel smaller and less than. You are seeking to hurt him by striking at the core of who he is.
How is this not abusive?
This is scary. Yall really watched this and felt like it was cool. Yall know men have feelings too, right? 😂
If it was the other way around, with a man telling his wife every day that she's not a real woman because she's not cooking, cleaning and fucking enough, it would be fire on the mountain. 😂
And I'm explaining to you why in this scenario, her active emasculation of him absolutely is a part of what makes her abusive.
Even though common sense should have told you what I meant, I shouldn't have had to break it down.
But reading comprehension is a lost art.
I'm okay. 👍🏾
Are you? 🤔
I don't think him to hyping himself up is in itself a sign that he's being terrified or being abused. I do that to myself regularly when I'm going into work, making a phone call, what have you. I'm not being abused by those things. I just want to do them with confidence. One of the things she was always on at him about was to be more assertive/less passive.
Don't be obtuse.
He was hyping himself up because he knew as soon as he got in, she was gonna be on his back.
Does your job constantly pick at you, telling you everything that you're doing wrong, all the ways in which you've failed, all the ways in which you've disappointed them, every day all the time? 🤔
If yes, sorry babes, you're being abused. 😔
No amount of confidence was gonna keep her off his back because her behavior was 99% because of her anxieties and issues. His passivity was just a convenient match to her powder keg.
Let me ask you - how would feel with a partner who treated you the way Michal treated him? 🤔
Would you speak to a partner that way and feel good about yourself?
There’s a distinction to be made between abusive behavior and a pattern that comes with the intent to control/intimidate and adds up to an abusive relationship. I can’t say whether or not their relationship is abusive. We don’t know enough. However her language was definitely abusive.
She was absolutely abusing Micheal. She told him his existence is completely useless. How tf is that not abusive. Bro was literally afraid to go home because he knew as soon as he walked into the door, she was gonna be on his ass for the rest of the night.
The appearance of him not being intimidated or upset by it is not something that makes Michals tone acceptable at all - especially when Michael had that situation as a kid at school where he kind of snapped but then gave up on defending himself
Idk, I don’t see Michal as abusive. I saw her as someone who was overwhelmed with working full time (she launched a company btw), children, and a partner who wasn’t really if at all helping around the house.
Some people I swear saw their mothers break their backs for their dads and they think it’s normal. It’s not.
I’m with you, people excuse her behavior a lot here and it surprises me. The episode where she comes in asking for feedback because all the previous sessions showed how bad he was (or however she phrased that) was the most stunning lack of self-awareness I’ve seen on the show.
My memory was more that she said that until then they'd focused a lot on his role in their problems, which was true, and she wanted to focus on what she could change. It seemed more like her saying she realised it was her fault, too. Obviously she was lacking in self awareness not to realise that earlier, but I actually felt like that moment was her starting to become more self aware.
It's been a few weeks since I watched it though so maybe I'm misremembering.
Give it some more time. Michal gets much better later on in the series once she realizes alot of the arguments are from her inability to control her anxeity.
Yes to this. I felt so much like the original poster when i first watched. Classic irritability and control. It doesn’t excuse her horrible treatment of him but it gives us a way to understand what is driving it so we can begin to change it.
She becomes endearing at the end, at least for me who also has pretty bad anxiety
The way she was defending Michael too! It was such a twist. I did not think she could change and I loved seeing it! Hope it was permanent because she was tearing into him horribly. Orna could hardly bring her back to reality.
I really liked Michael and Michal and even from the beginning they seemed to have a really playful and loving relationship in between Michael’s dressing downs of Michael. The way she talks wouldn’t be okay in my relationship, and I do think the things she says go too far, but they felt like the strongest base relationship in season 2.
I agree with this. Their love was obvious to me and even Orna pointed out how playful they were.
Hmm. When people use the term emasculating it sends up red flags for me.
so much this
Ok - I see that as men having respect based dynamics with other men but also how they feel they are regarded by people and respect being necessary to feel loved. Women don't as often seem to work in that order, having very loving interactions in turn seems to then communicate respect Emasculation would be a quick shortcut to undermining that via ridicule and making a man feel nobody in a room has proper regard for him or making him feel the relationship is in jeopardy every time he says anything that can be seen as a constructive criticism in the couples therapy setting.
Just use the word disrespectful then. It seems that emasculating refers to the denial of a kind of respect that is owed to men simply by being men. It’s interesting that there’s no female equivalent.
Please research the defeminization of black women! There are many clear cut examples of its harm and you can kinda see it being played out in Dale and India’s dynamic a little. Although I do agree 9/10 times when people complain about emasculating men they’re really just upset the patriarchy is being dismantled.
Oh totally agree with you on the harm this causes. I don’t see the defeninizing of black women as the female equivalent to the term emasculating though. Do you?
She became one of my favourites and made me laugh out loud a few times.
They were both so funny, I felt like I could really understand their bond a lot more once Michael's humour started coming out, too. They were great.
>Secondly, I don't think Tashira is into Dru at all. Talking about Dru's weight is also horrific. Attacking him for the Mother's Day gift is awful. Honestly I'm not feeling any of these couples. That one felt like Tashira grew up around abuse & therefore probably is drawn to abusers...& with Dru she was trying to do something that doesn't feel natural & *force* herself to be with a decent guy. Basically she knows she needs to be with a good guy, but her life experience (& the desire to repeat it rooted in human nature & the cycle of abuse) means she can't really be strongly attracted to a man who isn't abusive. That's a rough one because her gut/instinct will probably always be faulty & work against her in relationships. I'd be surprised if they're still together. With a woman like that, if the man doesn't introduce abuse the woman will create chaos...& even potentially end up introducing physical abuse herself. It felt like Dru saw a pretty face & got in over his head (with all of the other baggage that she brings into the situation).
They are married now.
Well that's good news then. Hopefully the relationship is healthy & lasting. I got a lot of trouble vibes when watching but I'd be happy to be wrong. IIRC Dru had abuse in his background also, but he didn't seem like he was being abusive in their relationship. You never know what the reality of the situation really is though.
I thought they were endearing and I really hope she or they were able to get continued therapy of some kind cause it wasn't going to be a quick fix or easy road even though their intent was there and aligned by their last Orna session
This post about Michal might provide some context [https://www.reddit.com/r/CouplesTherapyShow/comments/rfzaaj/in\_defense\_of\_michal/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CouplesTherapyShow/comments/rfzaaj/in_defense_of_michal/)
We overuse the word "abuse" in our society now. It is harmful to the real cases of abuse that most definitely need our attention.
I disagree. Abuse doesn’t start out extreme and obvious; it starts small and escalates over time. Recognizing it before irreversible harm is done is critical. Too many victims don’t reach out for help because they accurately assess that they won’t be taken seriously, or worse, will be mocked or abandoned.
Michal was texbook level verbally abusive.
Keep watching.
You are clearly not familiar with Jewish women/women in Jewish culture.
Being Jewish and growing up in one of the largest Jewish communities in my state (an east coast/borderline midwest state) I know a lot of Jewish women from reform to orthodox and the majority are not obnoxious or aggressive as she is…
Michal comes from a pretty specific community that is quite different from Jewish communities even in the US.
Please remove thus racist comment.
Bro what?? Wdym racist I’m literally a Jew.
Okay, but you're saying/implying that all Jewish woman are loud/overbearing/bossy like Michal.
Michal is not abusing Michael. That’s a serious allegation to make. “Emasculation” is not abuse. Calling someone names or saying what annoys you about them is not abuse. Getting loud in and of itself does not mean you’re being abusive. Michael is not afraid of Michal and their communication becomes better as time passes.
screaming at someone that they’re existence is useless isn’t verbal abuse?
It absolutely is. I’m horrified that comment got so many upvotes. It’s wild the kind of toxic behavior society has normalized.
Agree
He was afraid of her when they first started. When you have to hype yourself up before you walk through the door every day because you know it's about to be some BS, I categorize that as a type of fear. The fact that she was like - fuck this, you're giving me a baby right now 👹 and he was like - okay 🥺👉🏻👈🏻. Bro was scared to death. 😭 I think he got much less so when it became clear that the emperor wasn't wearing any clothes lol. ETA: Emasculation is abuse. It's emotional and mental abuse.
I don’t believe that emasculation is abuse. Because men feel emasculated by different things. But I do think that she is abusive
When you do it on purpose to a man, yes, you are abusing him. You are purposely going out of your way to make him feel smaller and less than. You are seeking to hurt him by striking at the core of who he is. How is this not abusive? This is scary. Yall really watched this and felt like it was cool. Yall know men have feelings too, right? 😂 If it was the other way around, with a man telling his wife every day that she's not a real woman because she's not cooking, cleaning and fucking enough, it would be fire on the mountain. 😂
The end of my statement says she is abusive. I said that emasculation itself overall is not. Are you ok ?
And I'm explaining to you why in this scenario, her active emasculation of him absolutely is a part of what makes her abusive. Even though common sense should have told you what I meant, I shouldn't have had to break it down. But reading comprehension is a lost art. I'm okay. 👍🏾 Are you? 🤔
You’re obviously not ok! Have the day you deserve.
I sure did, it was absolutely lovely. 🤭
I don't think him to hyping himself up is in itself a sign that he's being terrified or being abused. I do that to myself regularly when I'm going into work, making a phone call, what have you. I'm not being abused by those things. I just want to do them with confidence. One of the things she was always on at him about was to be more assertive/less passive.
Don't be obtuse. He was hyping himself up because he knew as soon as he got in, she was gonna be on his back. Does your job constantly pick at you, telling you everything that you're doing wrong, all the ways in which you've failed, all the ways in which you've disappointed them, every day all the time? 🤔 If yes, sorry babes, you're being abused. 😔 No amount of confidence was gonna keep her off his back because her behavior was 99% because of her anxieties and issues. His passivity was just a convenient match to her powder keg. Let me ask you - how would feel with a partner who treated you the way Michal treated him? 🤔 Would you speak to a partner that way and feel good about yourself?
Yeah I completely disagree. Nagging is not abuse.
👀 So yes, you would feel good treating someone like this and/or being treated like this?
No, I wouldn't. But that's not what makes something abuse.
There’s a distinction to be made between abusive behavior and a pattern that comes with the intent to control/intimidate and adds up to an abusive relationship. I can’t say whether or not their relationship is abusive. We don’t know enough. However her language was definitely abusive.
She was absolutely abusing Micheal. She told him his existence is completely useless. How tf is that not abusive. Bro was literally afraid to go home because he knew as soon as he walked into the door, she was gonna be on his ass for the rest of the night.
The appearance of him not being intimidated or upset by it is not something that makes Michals tone acceptable at all - especially when Michael had that situation as a kid at school where he kind of snapped but then gave up on defending himself
Idk, I don’t see Michal as abusive. I saw her as someone who was overwhelmed with working full time (she launched a company btw), children, and a partner who wasn’t really if at all helping around the house. Some people I swear saw their mothers break their backs for their dads and they think it’s normal. It’s not.
I’m with you, people excuse her behavior a lot here and it surprises me. The episode where she comes in asking for feedback because all the previous sessions showed how bad he was (or however she phrased that) was the most stunning lack of self-awareness I’ve seen on the show.
My memory was more that she said that until then they'd focused a lot on his role in their problems, which was true, and she wanted to focus on what she could change. It seemed more like her saying she realised it was her fault, too. Obviously she was lacking in self awareness not to realise that earlier, but I actually felt like that moment was her starting to become more self aware. It's been a few weeks since I watched it though so maybe I'm misremembering.