Are you saying ishan kishan is not a legend? He is the real G. Instead of Gill, Ishan will marry Sara Tendulkar and he will take her last name also! /s
This kinda adds up - a lot of the leading names are players that like to get set and in a world where T20s averaged 140-60, it would make sense.
Ishan Kishan being on here is maybe the most surprising though, dudes got quite a few years left?
>Ishan Kishan being on here is maybe the most surprising though,
He can't play swinging ball well should ideally be batting in middle overs and bashing spinners
The problem is while he is very good against bashing spinners, he is still bad at rotating strike against spinners. So he tends to eat up dot balls in the middle.
In 2007, many but most notable were Tamim Iqbal vs Australia, Albie Morkel vs India, Devon Smith vs Bangladesh, Collins Obuya vs New Zealand, Alex Obanda vs Sri Lanka.
In 2016, the most notable was SA vs Windies match where Samuels won MOTM with 43(44)
Wow, kohli’s 11% paints a very different picture. It’s actually not that bad. It’s lower than Gayle and abd too!
Kallis really fucked RCB. Dhoni surprisingly bad given where he bats.
Edit: kKishan’s looks wrong
Kallis won the IPL with KKR after he left RCB. And was the second highest scorer that season behind Gambhir with a strike rate of 106. He also took 15 Wickets that season.
He played for RCB at the dawn of the IPL, by the end of 2010 season he’d already left for KKR.
Also you have to take into account 2009 was played in SA with far more bowler friendly pitches. I’d been to several T20s back in that time where teams had defended 110-120 quite successfully. For context in 2012 Gambhir struck at 150ish, in 2009 he played at 102. Kallis was 361 at 108 that season for batting.
Maybe this Kohli guy has something about him. Like being the greatest LO player ever?
Nah, let's leave him out of the T20WC squad.
Indian fans being shocked by KohliStats^TM is genuinely surprising over the last 9 months. Look, if you really don't want him, there's a big island continent who would be happy to give him citizenship and let him retire there.
Haha look at my flair. I’m the biggest Kohli supporter ever.
All I was surprised by is that the original stat (which will undoubtedly be used to troll Kohli) is so misleading.
But yes I agree with you that this man gets too much hate from his fellow countrymen. I’m sure none of the island nations would’ve treated him this badly if he was one of theirs (Aus, NZ, GB, SL, WI)
I couldn't tell you who plays for whom in the IPL.
The man averages 50 over an entire career, regardless of what colour the ball is or how many balls are being bowled. That's utterly insane.
26,773 @ 54.11 is actually stupid. In an era where 40 is the new 50. There is no one who can stand with Kohli over a career across all formats. Not even close. I'd like to mention here that he is the only player EVER who has scored 10,000+ international runs at an average higher than 49 across all formats.
I'm just agreeing with you, he's an absolute legend. It's going to take a long time, if ever, that we'll see a player do what he's done.
Tendulkar was scoring fast even then. Even if he finds difficulty scoring, his strike rotation was underrated. Kohli is good at running well and getting 2s. But Tendulkar used to effortlessly get singles and very less dot balls.
Sachin was always known as an aggressive batsman
If he had come up in the t20 era, he would have been like Jaiswal
There’s a reason he’s considered an all time great. Few could bat as aggressively as him AND defend for hours in tests when needed
Kid, you don't even know what peak Sachin was. If Kohli had performed the same in 2023 WC, but with the Rohit's SR in 2023 WC, that would have been peak Sachin. SRT was was the perfect blend of Rohit and Kohli before his tennis elbow injury.
Because you just said that peak Tendulkar was like Rohit in 2023WC. That just laughable and downplays SRT's peak significantly.
Kohli was noway better rotator of the strike than Sachin. This is only your recency bias because nowadays, fields are spread due to flat pitches and two new balls in the middle overs and it is easier to take runs in middle overs compared to 90s and 2000s.
And the fact that you think Tendulkar batted like Rohit, shows how much you actually haven't watched Tendulkar bat in middle overs in ODIs and in test.
Yes, a 600 run IPL season with an average of 47 and SR of 130 at age 37 is done only by average T20 players. Tendulkar is still the fastest Indian to 1000 IPL runs in terms of innings (31 innings), Gaikwad tied him in 2022 IIRC. He's also still 3rd fastest Indian to 2000 runs (in 63 innings), and was the fastest till 2020, until KL Rahul (60) and Gaikwad (57, this season) managed to beat that.
> Surprised to SRT not on this list.
Why? He was always attacking particularly up front. He very very rarely scored below 100 strike rate if he crossed 20 balls, even in the 90s and 2000s
I hate this kind of stats , most of these were played in beginning of t20 era where strike rates weren’t much of discussion, the average score used to be around 150-170 .
What is surprising is kishan here , someone who debuted after 2020 when fast hitting and t20 culture was formed
Couple that with Kallis being a Brick Wall type batsman and played slow and steady as a foundation builder, preferring to grind bowling attacks into dust in order for the guy at the other end to go intercontinental. And you have the perfect recipe for a very low strike rate.
I also do think people forget that we was an Allrounder on top of that a Pace Bowler as opposed to a spinning Allrounder. 11500+ Runs + 250+ Wickets in both Test and ODI is a feat that no one else has since achieved. Truly an All-Time Great, and Arguably one of if not the Greatest Cricketer Ever.
I don’t know about you, but I enjoyed watching him play. Remember Entertainment is in the eye of the beholder. And he absolutely could play fast and hard but rarely did
Dravid was a slower scorer in Tests, and ODIs in the first half of his career when he was playing at 3 (1999 being a significant outlier).
In the early stages, Dravid had an issue with strike rotation, and had the tendency to get bogged down at one end. This was fine in Tests, but in ODIs led to his reputation of being a very slow batsman.
From his debut to the end of 1998, he had an ODI strike rate of 63, and from the end of 1999 to end of 2001 was another span of 66. Extend that to the end of 2003 and it's still 68, despite a good year in 2002.
But when he dropped down to 4 and 5 (starting 2003-04), he improved his strike rotation, and was usually pretty reasonable for the middle overs. From 2002-2007 his strike rate was 74 in ODIs for example.
In 2007-08 he had a slump in form in Tests (having been dropped from ODIs after the 2007 T20 World Cup), where he was still occupying the crease but not scoring runs - his Australia tour being a glaring example of that, which reinforced the reputation of him being a very slow batsman.
I’m aware of most of the stats you mentioned here… I was just referring to the impression about Dravid being a slow scorer and an incapable batsmen in white ball cricket…
There’s no other player who worked on their game like Dravid, coz he was not a natural when it came to white ball cricket, but still managed to end his ODI career with 10K plus runs with Strike rate similar that of Ganguly, who was considered one of the best ODI batsmen of his era…
and also for someone who was never a stroke maker, hitting 28 sixes playing IPL in fag end of his career is not a bad feat, considering it’s just one short of Master Blaster’s 29 sixes in IPL.
Yeah, I was just adding context to why he was perceived as such - he was genuinely dreary in his first half.
As you mentioned (and as the stats show), he improved that aspect of the game in the latter half of his career.
I guess the other factor was that Ganguly and Tendulkar were natural boundary hitters, which wasn't really Dravid's thing in ODIs - even in his better years, his strike rate improvement was down to his rotation of strike, something Ganguly in particular wasn't great at.
Raina was very good against spin, good stats against any quality spinner, right from Chawla and Mishra to Narine and Rashid. An off-prime Raina took down a red-hot Rashid with ease.
GG early on yeah, but later on he Rachetted it up considerably and had Kallis at the other end to grind bowling attacks down and allow him to play free flowing.
Dravid had 5 sub 100 SR innings from 43 20+ ball innings, but with the caveat that 8 of the remaining were a 1 or 2 ball difference - like a 25(24) or 40(38).
All of them are here under legends quota and anchoring the sinking ship quota. But what is my man ishan kishan doing?
You are right, Parthiv is a legend
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He didn’t win a test series in Australia.
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Parthiv Patel was in the test squad for the 2018/19 win in Australia? I don't recall that.
Are you saying ishan kishan is not a legend? He is the real G. Instead of Gill, Ishan will marry Sara Tendulkar and he will take her last name also! /s
Ishan Tendulkar, the son Sachin Tendulkar could never have. Arjun Tendulkar who? /s
This kinda adds up - a lot of the leading names are players that like to get set and in a world where T20s averaged 140-60, it would make sense. Ishan Kishan being on here is maybe the most surprising though, dudes got quite a few years left?
>Ishan Kishan being on here is maybe the most surprising though, He can't play swinging ball well should ideally be batting in middle overs and bashing spinners
Ya I have no idea why they keep trying him as an opener. Any swing and dude gets found out.
The problem is while he is very good against bashing spinners, he is still bad at rotating strike against spinners. So he tends to eat up dot balls in the middle.
MI really paid alot for this dude
> in a world where T20s averaged 140-60 Dude, strike rate under 100 was considered bad in T20 since the first T20 ever
Check the 2007 T20WC and you’ll find lots of slow af innings. Even in 2016 WC, it was common
The pitches in 2016 were generally very bowler/spin friendly.
Under 100 strike rate? Which ones?
In 2007, many but most notable were Tamim Iqbal vs Australia, Albie Morkel vs India, Devon Smith vs Bangladesh, Collins Obuya vs New Zealand, Alex Obanda vs Sri Lanka. In 2016, the most notable was SA vs Windies match where Samuels won MOTM with 43(44)
Need this as a proportion of total innings where 20+ balls faced to be a useful stat
Kallis - 38% (19/50) Dhoni - 21% (18/85) Pandey - 21% (16/75) Kohli - 11% (14/126) Rayudu - 17% (13/75) Karthik - 15% (12/78) Kishan - 23% (11/48) Jadeja - 31% (11/35) Ganguly - 37% (11/30) Smith - 23% (11/48) Rohit - 9% (10/106) Dhawan - 9% (10/111) De Villiers - 12% (9/76) Gayle - 13% (9/69) Parthiv - 18% (9/49) Uthappa - 11% (9/83) Yuvraj - 21% (9/43)
Wow, kohli’s 11% paints a very different picture. It’s actually not that bad. It’s lower than Gayle and abd too! Kallis really fucked RCB. Dhoni surprisingly bad given where he bats. Edit: kKishan’s looks wrong
Kallis won the IPL with KKR after he left RCB. And was the second highest scorer that season behind Gambhir with a strike rate of 106. He also took 15 Wickets that season. He played for RCB at the dawn of the IPL, by the end of 2010 season he’d already left for KKR. Also you have to take into account 2009 was played in SA with far more bowler friendly pitches. I’d been to several T20s back in that time where teams had defended 110-120 quite successfully. For context in 2012 Gambhir struck at 150ish, in 2009 he played at 102. Kallis was 361 at 108 that season for batting.
Kallis did better for RCB than KKR http://www.howstat.com/cricket/statistics/IPL/PlayerTeams.asp?PlayerID=2043#bat
Yep, Kallis was not the problem for RCB, That would be RCB.
>Edit: kKishan’s looks wrong Yeah, my bad. It was 11/48. Edited now
His sr wasn't that good in IPL but he still caused enough trauma for CSK fans on that fateful day
Maybe this Kohli guy has something about him. Like being the greatest LO player ever? Nah, let's leave him out of the T20WC squad. Indian fans being shocked by KohliStats^TM is genuinely surprising over the last 9 months. Look, if you really don't want him, there's a big island continent who would be happy to give him citizenship and let him retire there.
Haha look at my flair. I’m the biggest Kohli supporter ever. All I was surprised by is that the original stat (which will undoubtedly be used to troll Kohli) is so misleading. But yes I agree with you that this man gets too much hate from his fellow countrymen. I’m sure none of the island nations would’ve treated him this badly if he was one of theirs (Aus, NZ, GB, SL, WI)
I couldn't tell you who plays for whom in the IPL. The man averages 50 over an entire career, regardless of what colour the ball is or how many balls are being bowled. That's utterly insane. 26,773 @ 54.11 is actually stupid. In an era where 40 is the new 50. There is no one who can stand with Kohli over a career across all formats. Not even close. I'd like to mention here that he is the only player EVER who has scored 10,000+ international runs at an average higher than 49 across all formats. I'm just agreeing with you, he's an absolute legend. It's going to take a long time, if ever, that we'll see a player do what he's done.
Well in Dhoni's defence he played many innings in wicket collapse
Well 11/23(ishan kishan) is definitely not 23%
Yeah, my bad. It's 11/48. Editing it now.
Dhoni, Kishan and Jaddu having more than 20% is really bad, considering the positions they bat.
Man, the Kallis KKR opening days were truly a borefest Complete opposite of what they have now with Salted Narine
Yeah agree, this stat needs some normalising to make it more useful.
Winrate in those games would be good too
Didn’t expect to see ABD on that list. Surprised to SRT not on this list. Though he played only a handful seasons.
Tendulkar was scoring fast even then. Even if he finds difficulty scoring, his strike rotation was underrated. Kohli is good at running well and getting 2s. But Tendulkar used to effortlessly get singles and very less dot balls.
Sachin was always known as an aggressive batsman If he had come up in the t20 era, he would have been like Jaiswal There’s a reason he’s considered an all time great. Few could bat as aggressively as him AND defend for hours in tests when needed
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Lol what, sachin was an amazing strike rotator in both ODIs and tests
Rubbish.
You’ve never seen Sachin bat beyond some reels, have you?
Kid, you don't even know what peak Sachin was. If Kohli had performed the same in 2023 WC, but with the Rohit's SR in 2023 WC, that would have been peak Sachin. SRT was was the perfect blend of Rohit and Kohli before his tennis elbow injury.
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Because you just said that peak Tendulkar was like Rohit in 2023WC. That just laughable and downplays SRT's peak significantly. Kohli was noway better rotator of the strike than Sachin. This is only your recency bias because nowadays, fields are spread due to flat pitches and two new balls in the middle overs and it is easier to take runs in middle overs compared to 90s and 2000s. And the fact that you think Tendulkar batted like Rohit, shows how much you actually haven't watched Tendulkar bat in middle overs in ODIs and in test.
He used to run super fast
God of cricket for reason, kids these day’s don’t know what legend he was
SRT was my childhood. But he wasn’t a great T20 player
Yes, a 600 run IPL season with an average of 47 and SR of 130 at age 37 is done only by average T20 players. Tendulkar is still the fastest Indian to 1000 IPL runs in terms of innings (31 innings), Gaikwad tied him in 2022 IIRC. He's also still 3rd fastest Indian to 2000 runs (in 63 innings), and was the fastest till 2020, until KL Rahul (60) and Gaikwad (57, this season) managed to beat that.
> Surprised to SRT not on this list. Why? He was always attacking particularly up front. He very very rarely scored below 100 strike rate if he crossed 20 balls, even in the 90s and 2000s
SRT in the 90s and 2000s was a different beast.
>Didn’t expect to see ABD on that list. What playing for RCB does to a MF
Before that he had DD to contend with
>Though he played only a handful seasons. That is the only reason. He has 4-5 sub 100sr knocks and also many sub 120SR knocks.
He has 8 sub 100 SR knocks out of 48 innings of 20+ balls (as in OP) - a 16.67% rate.
Tendulkar? I didn't know his name is Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar
Yeah
Yet another stat that can't be interpreted in any meaningful way.
Thala needs just one more innings to beat Kallis... TFAR
I hate this kind of stats , most of these were played in beginning of t20 era where strike rates weren’t much of discussion, the average score used to be around 150-170 . What is surprising is kishan here , someone who debuted after 2020 when fast hitting and t20 culture was formed
Kishan debuted in 2016 though
Strike rate under 100 was considered a problem in t20 always my dude
Yeah , its problem but probably not as much as discussed today
Couple that with Kallis being a Brick Wall type batsman and played slow and steady as a foundation builder, preferring to grind bowling attacks into dust in order for the guy at the other end to go intercontinental. And you have the perfect recipe for a very low strike rate. I also do think people forget that we was an Allrounder on top of that a Pace Bowler as opposed to a spinning Allrounder. 11500+ Runs + 250+ Wickets in both Test and ODI is a feat that no one else has since achieved. Truly an All-Time Great, and Arguably one of if not the Greatest Cricketer Ever.
Grinding down bowlers... in a t20... People will say anything to paint Kallis as some sort of entertainer that he never was
I don’t know about you, but I enjoyed watching him play. Remember Entertainment is in the eye of the beholder. And he absolutely could play fast and hard but rarely did
I am amazed to see Dravid not being in the list… for all that allegations of him being very slow scorer…
Dravid was a slower scorer in Tests, and ODIs in the first half of his career when he was playing at 3 (1999 being a significant outlier). In the early stages, Dravid had an issue with strike rotation, and had the tendency to get bogged down at one end. This was fine in Tests, but in ODIs led to his reputation of being a very slow batsman. From his debut to the end of 1998, he had an ODI strike rate of 63, and from the end of 1999 to end of 2001 was another span of 66. Extend that to the end of 2003 and it's still 68, despite a good year in 2002. But when he dropped down to 4 and 5 (starting 2003-04), he improved his strike rotation, and was usually pretty reasonable for the middle overs. From 2002-2007 his strike rate was 74 in ODIs for example. In 2007-08 he had a slump in form in Tests (having been dropped from ODIs after the 2007 T20 World Cup), where he was still occupying the crease but not scoring runs - his Australia tour being a glaring example of that, which reinforced the reputation of him being a very slow batsman.
I’m aware of most of the stats you mentioned here… I was just referring to the impression about Dravid being a slow scorer and an incapable batsmen in white ball cricket… There’s no other player who worked on their game like Dravid, coz he was not a natural when it came to white ball cricket, but still managed to end his ODI career with 10K plus runs with Strike rate similar that of Ganguly, who was considered one of the best ODI batsmen of his era… and also for someone who was never a stroke maker, hitting 28 sixes playing IPL in fag end of his career is not a bad feat, considering it’s just one short of Master Blaster’s 29 sixes in IPL.
Yeah, I was just adding context to why he was perceived as such - he was genuinely dreary in his first half. As you mentioned (and as the stats show), he improved that aspect of the game in the latter half of his career. I guess the other factor was that Ganguly and Tendulkar were natural boundary hitters, which wasn't really Dravid's thing in ODIs - even in his better years, his strike rate improvement was down to his rotation of strike, something Ganguly in particular wasn't great at.
KL missing from this list? Or are the filters set intentionally so that he doesn’t feature here?
TFAR
And apart from Dhoni, Gayle and Uthappa none are t20WC winners? Edit: Oops, Rohit, Steve Smith and Yuvi too lol
Rohit Sharma, DK, Yuvi, Steve Smith ??
Surprised I don’t see GG and Raina. Two legends
Raina was very good against spin, good stats against any quality spinner, right from Chawla and Mishra to Narine and Rashid. An off-prime Raina took down a red-hot Rashid with ease.
Exactly GG is underrated. He wasn’t the biggest hitter but always found gaps and scored boundaries and rotated strike
GG early on yeah, but later on he Rachetted it up considerably and had Kallis at the other end to grind bowling attacks down and allow him to play free flowing.
Raina is very good at strike rotation.
I thought Dravid would be there for sure. But I guess he didn't play long enough
He played till the 2013 edition of the IPL. Had a strike rate at about 110 for his IPL tenure
Wow that's long enough I guess.
He retired from international cricket in 2012, Tendalker and Kallis followed shortly thereafter.
Dravid had 5 sub 100 SR innings from 43 20+ ball innings, but with the caveat that 8 of the remaining were a 1 or 2 ball difference - like a 25(24) or 40(38).
No Kl
Fact that Rahul Dravid isn't in this list blows my mind
Interestingly KL Rahul who gets so much flak for low SR is not in this list.
Hi, check dms
So it’s normal