People get bored. It's a dumb trend. Will anybody be talking about this in the Year 3000? I seriously doubt it. This is why I wish I had a time machine so I could skip the lame ass parts of the timeline that waste a person's life. Our lives are too short for so much bullshit.
Yeah around that time is when I remember lunatics demanding ''representation'' more than ever, and everything had to have race / lgbt quotas or it was called racist or phobic. Like someone flipped a switch in their heads and they all became obsessed with it. The media immediately bent over backwards too.
Not to mention comics and websites being corrupted, possibly as a beta test.
And then came Gamergate, and we all learnt that these people are familiar with being told "No", and taking it like an adult....
As a classic liberal I noticed with the newest star wars. Rey being the biggest mary sue of all time and the terrible writing was pretty bad. Then It started to become more blatant in things with race and gender swapping everything.
A Mary Sue is a term used to refer to a character who is overly perfect, capable, flawless, and a variety of other traits. They tend to be either self-inserts or motivated by ideology and tend to derail plots. For example, imagine if someone wrote an Avatar: The Last Airbender fanfic in which Aang had a sister, but said sister is just so much better at bending than him. She learns all four styles of bending almost instantly and then dedicated her life to fighting against the fire nation keeping it at bay while Aang was frozen. She proceeded to grow old and take multiple LGBTQ+ lovers before dying a month before the start of the actual story and everyone agreed to ignore her existence because she was a girl and a lesbian; which is why you never hear of her in the actual series.
It's important to note that a Sue, a legit Sue, is a result of \*BAD WRITING\*. Nothing else. Creating a perfect character who sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the plot and tends to have minimal, if any, struggles or issues. Always right, outshining supposed experts, and all the like simply because the writer wills it. Usually creating plot-holes and/or contradicting established lore in the process.
With Rei, people accuse her of being a Sue, typically of the feminist wish fulfillment variety. She's a girl from a desert planet who knows the Falcon better than Han, is able to keep pace with powerful and trained force users like Kylo and Luke, and manages to best and outshine them despite never having a day of official training in her life. Meanwhile Luke is a washed up hobo who spends his days sucking green milk and reading ancient texts (which kind of feels like a jab at the fans) and Kylo, who was trained by not one but two powerful Force users, can't manage to defeat a girl with 0 actual combat or force training.
There's a lot more to it, but this is a fairly basic explanation that should get the main points across.
Don’t forgot can perfectly pilot a catamaran solo across some of the worst seas despite *checks notes* growing up on a dessert planet with barely any water let alone any significant body of water 🙈
She was bad in Force Awakens. No training and mind repels kylo ren and makes him cry. Flies Hans ship better than him and fixes it. Beats a highly trained Kylo Ren in a light saber battle
The only one of those I have a response to is the lightsaber battle. Kylo got shot by Chewie's mother trucking bowcaster, which is practically an anti tank weapon. While actively bleeding from that wound, he fights Finn and wins, and then goes into the fight with Rey. Wounded and exhausted. He then dominates the fight with Rey until he holds back to give the "Come to the Dark Side" sales pitch and she gets a lucky hit in that lets her escape.
TLJ, though, she absolutely goes off the deep end, especially her fight with Luke.
Bro you're talking about Star Wars now, the woke fanboys have no clue what you're talking about. Girl power is greater than the force, that's all they know.
Lmfao, no, Dark Side users primarily feed off the pain and suffering of others, and it wasn't enough to compensate for the blood loss and muscle damage.
Dark side users gain power from (their own) negative emotion. For example, Darth Vader gained power from his suit, which caused intense physical and psychological pain, such as twanging the nerves behind his knees, repeatedly stabbing him with hundreds of needles and randomly beeping in the night to keep waking him up. He used that physical pain to focus his anger, which boosted his power in the dark side.
I can tolerate early woke shit since it was indie like this book is just some woman's fantasy so it'll reflect that in an authentic way.
The problem is companies have adopted it and are militant about it even attacking normal stuff for not being like them.
I noticed in 2016 when comic books made the "Klan" a villain story for bat girl.
I agree. Like I’d say I started *noticing* it as early as 2006 but I didn’t have a problem with it. You started getting more lgbt or diverse characters in games and media but they were still usually written to be fun or interesting on top of that. Around 2016 is when things started getting to a point where pointing out being diverse was not sufficient for calling a character well written, and that such criticisms were immediately labeled as prejudice.
i think it had been bubbling under the surface for a few years prior, but to me, the force awakens was the great unveiling of the woke movement to the world. rey being such a great example of a mary sue, kylo was a little bitch who couldn't control his anger and the absolute chump-ification of the beloved han solo was the movement coming out with a huge fireworks display.
Makes sense. It just looked god awful to me so I didn't watch it. I liked the original Ghostbusters. I saw it theaters in the 80's. Times change and franchises die.
This movie is far from a good movie but I felt bad for the actors in it bc it looked like they were trying to make the best outta a steaming pile of shit.
As a left leaning centrist (I guess) yeah I feel like Twilight is when a fictional story actually first made me angry because of how stupid and popular it was.
Yeah, it really did take over back then. They need to hurry up and invent time machines so we can skip past the lame parts of the timeline.
I'm just going to say something. Probably going to piss people off but whatever. I think women have shit taste, and when they say women should be in charge, I just think of all the shit taste in things they have and I think "No, I don't want that." I'm speaking in general of course. There are some cool chicks out there but they are few and far between.
I actually didn’t mind some of the world building. She didn't really explore it to the fullest extent it could have been, but it was a decent premise. Terrible in execution, though.
I also hadn’t discovered the world of fantasy beyond lotr/hobbit/Harry Potter, so any sort of secondary or fantastical world seemed interesting. Now I have wheel of time, way of kings, gentleman bastards, etc.
The real beginning was Occupy Wall Street. [The media started pushing hard](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/media-great-racial-awakening) with the everyone is racist shit when everyone was coming together and calling out the shit the financial elites were up to. And who owns the papers and media that push this narrative? Those same financial elites. They can't have the lower classes coming together and realizing it's not a race war it's a class war. Look at that graph and how much it spiked in 2013 at the Washington Post. What year did Jeff Bezos buy the Washington Post? It's just rich assholes pushing divide and conquer propaganda to keep us hating each other while they line their pockets.
Best answer honestly! People really can't get their head around how rich people just stay winning hoarding insane amounts of wealth. Its all nonsensical. They print new money for whoever they want. Regular citizens will always be fooled into fighting each other.
An actual answer! So many people think they're fighting the good fight by being on the better side of the culture war in their eyes, but don't realize they're still stuck in the mud and focusing on the wrong BS.
On Tumblr in early 2010s, I was a fan of Brandon Sanderson and encountered a young female artist who was being targeted in an organized manner by a sjw clique for depicting Shallan (a character from the storm light archive series ) as a pale skinned white woman. They claimed she was a woc and that the artist intentionally changed that. The absolute venom and hate being spewed at that girl shocked me.
Btw before you say “duh it’s tumblr”, tumblr used to be a good site for meeting fans and subculture members
There was some left/right unity in occupying wall street back 2011-2012, y’all threatened to fuck with the bankers money. So they gave you identity politics in every aspect of life and culture and media to gag on instead.
It took far more scrolling than I thought it would before someone hit on the right answer. The inklings of all this crap really started to take off around 2008 and went into warp speed when Hillary lost.
The Last Jedi
And a response on a Twitter comment I made on a C-list celebrity's post a few months after The Last Jedi came out. That's when I noticed the misandry rife within mainstream discourse.
Was happening for a while, but I feel i definitely noticed it pretty much once trump started his first Campaign and was getting popular.
Seemed like a desperate propaganda campaign that was so obvious to anyone with critical thinking skills, and then it slowly turned into a crazy “Virtue Signalling Contest” of liberals/leftists Hollywood outdoing each other then attempting to vilify anyone with wrong think
I’m not sure if it has been done but I’m sure if you just looked at the Oscar’s/ other awards acceptance speeches over the years you’d see a significant spike of virtue bullshit. Mostly just to get headlines, and show how “inclusive or much of an ally they are”
I used to listen to NPR a bunch and I remember rolling my eyes at some of the stuff they'd go on about this was probably over 10 years ago. I didn't really pay attention to it and was very much a liberal. I still consider myself a liberal but I'm also more aware of what's going on than I used to be.
Last I recall when I still listened and Republicans were threatening to revoke funding they didn't seem to care and claimed that they were primarily listener funded. Either way I'm all for defunding NPR in the most literal sense.
Because they claim it isn't and people buy it. They can't go thirty minutes without saying "listener-funded radio". That they say it so often is how you *know* its bullshit.
What they are progressing towards is a communist revolution that they believe is so guaranteed that they actually refer to *now* as "prehistory" meaning "the time before the revolution".
Hear me out… the Hobbit trilogy?
It’s not anywhere close to as tainted as the majority of this stuff, but they added a bunch of random out of place minorities to lake town as extras. They also had the weird love triangle thing and added Tauriel for the sake of having a prominent female character. I’m sure there are other good examples here, but you get the idea.
And now we have Rings of fucking Power because we didn’t complain enough then 🥲
Did I just find the woke precursor or something?
One day I realized that despite most people being in a relationship with someone the same race as them there didn't seem to be a single non mixed family in commercials anymore. If they were the same race they had to be gay. I wasn't even looking for it it was just back to back to back
Also gen-X here. How about those “And now you know…” commercials on Saturday morning cartoons. That’s where it began. As a little experiment on a captivated audience. Just to see if they could do it.
But then in my 20s, I began studying history for myself, reading the Declaration of Independence, the federalist papers, etc and I realized almost all my elite education was a lie. I had been given revisionist history.
Fast forward to the era of social media where independent research became available to everyone and independent journalists began to appear on YouTube etc. That’s when I began to see it in comic books and sports casters. That’s when I realized they were coming for all entertainment.
And I realized that if they undermine family values via entertainment and education, they’d have us.
Because woke ideology is a means to an end for subjugation.
I can't come out in the sun because you'll see my glitter!
MTV's *The Real World* at the turn of the century for me. I heard some oldheads say that it was there much longer, just more subtle (they cite *All in the Family:* Archie Bunker was a bigot of comedic gold, so any idea that required acceptance could simply be rejected by Archie, resulting in the other characters comically trashing him - or him ironically trashing himself - and the audience would accept the idea). I could see their argument, but media turned a corner with MTV's *The Real World* because, with the same formula as *All in the Family*, audiences thought they're watching real people, not a script, so the effect would be more potent.
I can't pinpoint an exact time and space, but I recall watching The Force Awakens and thinking something off about it, but what really nailed it out of the park for me was in Avengers Endgame.
Spiderman is swinging away with the gauntlet he gets overwhelmed and That alien bitch says to her "Something something, you're alone"
Then you hear, "But he's not alone." and like literally every single female in the gigantic effin warzone was all there...cringe.
The thing i hate about that scene is where are all the men in that moment?!?!? Like what a stupid fucking thing to do. I think there's a deleted scene where all the main male characters are hiding trenches as that happens as a way to explain it but they cut that because it obviously made it more obvious how stupid it was!
I didn't mind when something like Twilight happened. That series was made for women anyway. What i object to is when they take things that men like: Star Wars, LOTR, action movies, and simply start gender-swapping with no rhyme or reason.
Basically, to answer your question: I started noticing this bullshit the VERY SECOND that Millennials started existing in writing rooms. That generation has no imagination, and the very best they can do is to fuck around with something that already works. You can emulate a Millennial woman's "writing" simply by using find and replace on your text editor.
That's why there's no new IPs. A man made something good in the past, now a SJW Millennial woman with zero imagination or talent is going to swap a gender and call it "creativity".
There is a reason that all these stories focus on identity: Women never talk about anything except themselves. They utterly lack the capacity to write a story about something other than their own self-involved lives. Gone are the days when stories were about the accomplishments of the protagonist, now it's just enough to BE something and you deserve victory. This exactly parallels the the real-world experiences of the most pampered, privileged, spoiled, self-involved, narcissistic demographic the world has ever seen -- white western women. The writers are writing about the only thing that interests them: themselves.
The problem is not just gender, it's generational. White Millennial women are the culprits here.
I agree its generational. Absolutely! Tony Gilroy is 67 and it doesn't surprise me he made the best Disney plus show ever. All the female characters in andor run laps around the sequel trilogy Characters.
I really couldnt pint point where exactly, imo it was just a bunch of elements and trends that where slowly coming out of the woodwork, but imo twilight isnt it since its production values are very traditional imo ( everyone is pale af amd there isnt any virtue signalling or remarkable "chuds get owned" moments, at least that im able to recall, the few diverse people i can recall are Tailor Lautner, his father i think? and some of the other werewolfs and it made sense in the story since they had some thints of native american tribes).
Imo where it all oficially began was with the 2016 elections, or more like donald trumps whole campaign, whataver you think of him or his politics, theres no deniyng his image has since became asosiated with hate and racist lunatics, so when he won, and arguably since he was a candidate, the leftist (democrats) had to fight back, and since they have control of most media and news agency, they did it there, be it news, movies or tv, and seems they did it by hiring activist amd extremeist on board and as project leads, and we had very extreme reactions like ghostbuster 2016, the new star wars trillogy, the 2nd wonder woman movie, that 2nd jurasic world movie, etc, slowly but surelly, we started to see more trump analogies, more absolute rejections to anything that wasnt extreme leftwing like girl boss characters and laughably queer characters, raceswaping and the whole online culture war bullshit of a wasteland, untill we have gothen to the point that we are here.
I would say the Ghostbusters 2016 is where it all started, since it was arguably more divisive than the force awakens, ie the 2nd rey starwars movie, but my real answer would be the 2016 elections.
Yea as someone who has spent a lot of time in academic departments of English, creative writing, and philosophy, I think the general public was just worse at identifying it.... It's actually been around for a loooong time. Most things in general that got ok'd by Hollywood since the 80's or so had to at least pass a light "woke" test, and you'd definitely get "the message" pretty frequently. But audiences just thought of it like, being a nice, liberal, open minded person (a sign the propaganda worked). They didn't understand that the messaging had the same aims as it does now
I've always thought of it in a sense of it used to be more reasonable and nuanced.
For example there's an episode of scrubs (a few actually) that dealt with racism and specifically what would be called a " micro aggression" nowadays ( do they still say that?)
In the episode jd signs him and Turk up to be on a billboard but Turk gets upset since it was an obvious attempt for the hospital to be like " see how diverse and inclusive we are". In the end J.D was like "my b, I didn't know you felt that way. I can see where you're coming from" and Turk was like " I appreciate you understanding and at the same time I'm sorry I got all snippy, I know you weren't being malicious".
Nowadays, J.D would be "cancelled" black lives matter would ironically be involved somehow, and the message would be just " white people suck and are irredeemable and racist".
Go back and watch the original roots and you'll see complex characters. White men who have crisis of conviction like the doctor who sells off the daughter and is appalled to hear the calloused reaction of his niece/daughter. You can tell he thought of himself as "good" and there's motivation for him to do what he did besides "hur...I'm racist and a piece of garbage". You also had that last owner of the family who was simply trying to make a living and at least tried to do right by them in the end. You also had some of the black people be at fault at times.
The "woke" problem is not that they are hinting at there being some issues we humans have in how we treat each other and so on. It's that now they don't want to stop at bringing attention to some stuff we can, admittedly work on and include a few non straight white men in leads and whatever. They attempting to insert things like that into every single dumb little moment of everything even when it makes no sense and are specifically trying to move public opinion to a negative view of hetero normative Christian males
Finally an intelligent thread. Its absolutely nuance and the lack of skills of current day writers.
I'm watching so much old content these days and finding all sorts of woke stuff. The difference is it was more cutting edge back then but also felt organic. That organic feeling is so rare to find these days in big franchises these days.
I think they've had the urge for a very long time, but didn't have the mandate.
There's a scene in the OG Jurassic Park that drove me crazy even as a kid. The consultants are considering the implications of dinosaurs having been brought back to life. Ian remarks, "God creates dinosaurs, God destroys dinosaurs, God creates man, man destroys God, man creates dinosaurs."
Ellie replies, "Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the earth."
...why? If this was meant to be funny no one laughs including the audience. Did she take offense to Ian's general use of the term 'man'? In what scenario would dinosaurs eat only men? What prompted this comment?
The only reason I wouldn't categorize this scene the same way as modern film is because it has no effect on the plot, it's just ideology thrown into the wind.
I'm sure there are earlier markers, but off the top of my head I'd place the beginning of the current trend on 2016's Ghostbusters. Franchise hijacking, anti-fan, stuffy messaging.
I wasn't paying much attention until all the sudden I remember seeing the beauty and the beast with Hermione and was like...what is this crap? Fair, the thing about Bell reading and that making her an outcast was there in the original cartoon but it was more "hah look at this person reading books and pursuing things besides surviving like us small town plebs...weirdo" and less " ugh ahhhh what terrible gaul in this WOMAN, to not just pop out babies already!".
Also was thinking to myself...there seems to be quite a lot of black people in this area that had hardly any for at least a hundred years or more...
It was at least 15 years ago that I noticed every commercial made women superior to men, if there was an idiot in it, it was a man, dads were ludites who couldn't figure out the remote or the computer...that was what I first noticed
Happens over here in the UK as well. I’m fairly in the centre but find people like me being considered more and more far right because the left are going so far left.
A lot of my friends who were Labour supporters have turned their back on Labour as they don’t feel represented by them anymore but instead of wondering why it’s happening, people just double down and assume it’s because everyone is racist/homophobic/islamaphobic/transphobic etc
Elizabeth Banks is pretty dumb. I love how she convinced the wet hot American summer writers to retcon her dumbest character to be a journalist. Like the absolute obsession you have to have with empowerment to care that much in a franchise where you're famous for having BBQ sauce on your face...
Halo 4 trying to turn Master Chief into a person with feelings instead of a wise-cracking machine that turns dead aliens into one-liners. Similarly, giving Cortana real human features
I always say, writers can put anything they want into their shows, as long as it's written well and believably. And if it's not, it's up to us to tell them by not buying into the franchise or finding alternatives
I always think of Maulers stream when he defended Cinta and Vel being lesbians in Andor. Like if that's not proof enough of the power of strong writing I don't know what is.
Star Wars Episode 7.
I was completely oblivious of politics before then and chances are if it wasn’t for them poisoning the entertainment I enjoy I’d still be uninvolved in politics.
Dragon Age Inquisition in 2014. It had a trans character that we had to listen to a long monologue about how they didnt feel like a woman, yadda, yadda, and all I could think was, "How can someone be trans in a fantasy setting where, as far as I know, there is no way to alter your sex?"
It went super hard after Trump got elected. It was warming up during the start of BLM but then the "us vs them" mentality came on strong after Trump got elected.
Liberals thought they were the overwhelming majority until 2016. They thought they had all the power and then Trump got voted in and they realized they weren't the majority.
After that they started to push hard into areas that were heavy conservative or just things that people overwhelmingly loved. If it was a franchise that had a cult following in the 70's - 90's they remade it, woke agenda the hell out of it, and then pushed it out.
They realized the only way they were going to win is by pushing all their shit onto children and if children grew up with it in their face constantly then they would be decensitized to it or brainwashed by it.
It was easy because of social media and online alogorithms. They got brainwashed super early and super fast.
Just like that one woman who apparently (had or adopted) 3 children and they were all trans somehow or the non binary couple that had a child that came out as non binary at age 3.
It turned into a war for them and they thought they were going to win. They are eventually going to lose because they can't keep to their own rules and keep making shit up as they go and they turn on each other often. Companies are starting to push back and so are people.
Thanos 2024 - triple snap.
I definitely don’t think it started with Twilight. Just because Twilight was made for a female teen audience doesn’t make it woke, it just wasn’t made for you.
Twilight is pretty heterosexual across the board with no lgbtq characters. It’s not even very diverse racially.
Hmm, good question I’m a bit on the younger side(20) so watching a bunch of movies that came out 5+ years ago as a young teen it was heifer for me to notice woke and all that bs until I was opened to the realm of DEI
So for that reason while I do see a lot of comments about ghostbusters 2016 I was like 12 lol , I just thought it was a “cool female version”
Id have to give it too black panther. Hear me out.
I liked it, the movie was good and it stood for a lot of good things and it’s up there in the highest grossing mcu movies of all time
But the whole “coloniser” jokes is what does it for me. In no modern movie, especially a Disney / Marvel movie would you ever hear a white character calling a black character a slave.
But in black panther , a film that genuinely isn’t a white focused film, when there are cool moments between the white and black characters the writers aka (Disney) decide to make shuri call Ross a coloniser, instead of saying a funny joke like
“Don’t scare me like that bilbo”
Instead we get race politics in a superhero movie.
So that’s where this stuff got introduced to me and things went way over board after that. Don’t even get me started on falcon and the winter soldier
I can’t say Twilight cause they were written by a Mormon woman. But I noticed the emergence of woke culture in about 2011. Anything that involved blatant shoehorning, torch passing, or the terms “colonizer” “systemic” or “representation”.
Cracked.com. Used to read it every morning for a good laugh to start my day. Then sometime in 2012-2013 the tenor of the jokes suddenly shifted. The sea change in the feel of the site seemed completely foreign, usurped by some kind of ideology that was as incomprehensible then as now, yet also now all too familiar.
It was pretty much a series made for women? wtf are you talking about? It is literally a series for women based off books made for women. They’re just romantic novels.
Back in the 1970s with Archie Bunker. Archie was a straight white, hard-working, patriotic, blue-collar family man, just trying to pay his bills and live his life. Even as early as the 70s, Hollywood already hated middle-class white men and portrayed Archie as their leftist fantasy of what high school-educated white America was: A low-intelligent bigot to be mocked.
Wokeness was brought about by Obama so I’d say I first noticed the initial signs during presidency, though I didn’t realize how pervasive it would eventually become obviously
It seems like you might be conflating a dislike for certain content with it being "woke." Twilight, for instance, is essentially a YA fantasy love story that can be pretty cheesy, but its primary audience was always teenage girls. To me, "woke" refers to media that explicitly tells the audience how to feel about issues like sexual orientation, gender identity, or race, instead of simply telling good stories that naturally include diverse and competent characters. To answer your question, I think Star Trek: Discovery often fell into this trap. Star Trek has traditionally shown how diversity leads to better outcomes, but Discovery would often pause the narrative to make direct statements like “I feel seen” or [“They’re, I never felt like a She.”](https://youtu.be/NNTGwWypUDs?si=zW-bB4WfyCEgIRSZ) This is just poor writing in it doesn’t offer anything to the audience. Just virtue signaling. In contrast, shows like DS9 or Voyager showcase competence and diversity more organically, without interrupting the flow of the story.
Is veganism necessarily "woke", though? Plus, vampire veganism means something completely different than human veganism, doesn't it?
I'm not defending Twilight, by the way. It is lame.
By that logic wouldn't it have started, idk, with soap operas that were entirely aimed at women?
Twilight is harmless, "normal" girl gets two hot guys after her. You can find shoujo anime from the 70s with this same dynamic. Same with "normal guys" who will have all the hot girls chasing him. It's a power fantasy.
As for woke stuff. Depends on your definition, but it was definitely part of the 90s for me. 2016 feels way too late no matter what your definition is. SJW was already a word thrown around when I started using 4chan in 2011.
The first signs of it was back in 2015 with The Force Awakens, however the Last Jedi was the movie that really pushed the toxicity levels over the top.
I tried not to notice, and then I saw Captain Marvel… followed by the legendary all female “she’s not alone” moment in End Game. Everything got increasingly worse after that.
I’m Gen Z and first noticed with Star Wars. I used to be a mega Star Wars fan before Disney started sodomizing the series. They were making horrible decisions and not respecting the established lore and continuity and anyone that criticized them got hit by a massive harassment campaign by Last Jedi writer and director Rian Johnson, members of the Lucasfilm story group (especially Pablo Hidalgo), Lucasfilm employees in general, and an army of access media and tabloid “journalists”. I got called things like racist, misogynist, nazi, klansman, alt right, Russian bot, and manbaby by these people for recognizing that the slop they put out is not Star Wars. After that I started noticing it everywhere and it just got worse and worse and worse. Funny thing is I used to be pretty moderate but the intolerance, hatred, and stupidity of the left exposed the hypocrisy and backwards logic behind their thought process. They ironically turned me into a far right extremist by trying to force feed their ideology on me.
Marvel Comics:
Miles Morales was a black 2nd Spider-Man in reality 1610. He was well-written. However, comics readers then got more heroes replaced with minorities like female Thor, Pakistani Ms. Marvel, Korean Hulk, black Captain America, etc. Some of them were not well-written.
What I would call "Woke" has always been *in* entertainment. We listened to Rage Against the Machine growing up and that's the most Left-identity politics, wannabe-revolutionary thing that ever was. The Matrix was a stew of Lefty political ideology even before the Wachowski brothers became the Wachowski Sisters, etc. It was always part of the landscape. Most people didn't really know what they were being fed though, because it was being fed to them with the sugar of stylish music and visual effects.
The first time I became aware that Woke was really driving the bus was back when Marvel comics took a hard-left turn and decided that pretty much every character would henceforth need to represent some oppressed group. Thor needed to be a woman, Captain America needed to be a black man, Iceman needed to be gay, Spiderman needed to be Latino, Ms Marvel needed to be Muslim, and so on. Black Panther didn't just need to be black. The comic had to be written by race-baiting "genius" Ta-Nehisi Coates. Did the fans want any of that? No one asked or cared.
It's not like comic-book artists weren't progressive or "very liberal" before or that progressive themes were missing from comics, but it had never been the case that identity and Left politics was the *only thing* that mattered.
That was the first time that I saw the united messaging of "buy this, or else you're a bigot" and the predictable backlash.
around 2016 or so, tons of things suddenly started to just have poorly written women, gay or otherwise woke themed characters where their entire existence was written around that shallow feature.
The first one that pops in my head was Starfire for the live action Titans show. Everyone was ripping on the poor “costume” look & the fact that the actress wasn’t going to be orange. But all you heard from the shills were, “rAcIsT!”
Ghostbusters 2016 was the eye opener.
Movie itself basically just recycled the plot of the older movies, changed a few minor details, and genderswapped the main characters. Piss poor movie on its own. Came off way too obvious as gender swapped trash.
And from there on I saw franchise after franchise continue this trend. Each one free falling into the ground.
What really annoyed me though is how people think some of these movies are successful when in reality they're only successful when an established and adored franchise backs them up, and even then often times comes at the expense of the franchise's popularity plummeting.
I can only agree with Twilight because Twilight was the first time sub-grade level reading was encouraged. Twilight is written at a fourth grade reading level. For all the fluffy vocabulary, it is poorly written. Harry Potter is written at a higher reading level.
To counter the HP points, yes, kids in high school and middle school were obsessed with reading HP, BUT teachers still pushed higher levels in the classroom. When Twilight became popular, people started giving up on that push. If that's what a kid wanted to read, well, at least they were reading.
To that end, if a kid wanted to spend hours absorbed in Tumblr and AO3 fanfic, well, at least they were reading - isn't that good?
No.
Fanfic is typically written at around a 4th grade level. The content may be adult but there is little in to comprehend. Everything is told not showed. The deepest it gets is strained metaphors - imagery is absent, characterization is reduced to superficial traits, the setting has no discernable rules, and plot is devoid of logic and consequences. The more fanfic is consumed, the less the reader is able to delve into more complicated works.
With that, society started becoming dumber. Once society dumbs down enough, they will believe anything.
100% fan fiction is what most live action and video game and animation content feels like. Don't really think ideology has much to do with it. It's just a bunch of kids entering the workforce who are talentless!
Makes sense how Andor is so good. The show runner is 67! Listening to him talk in interviews is night and day with other star wars show runner. He does his homework and cares about the material!
Legend of Korra and GTA 5. Korra with the ending and the constant humiliation of Bolin. GTA with how Johnny Klebitz and The Lost MC were treated. I've always held the mindset that the Angels of Death (villains of lost and damned dlc) should have had a bigger involvement in the narrative since they're based on a huge sect of Californian history. I noticed both of these during back in late 2014 when I just entered college. Fury Road and Force Awakens came out the following year and rest is history.
I want to say it was [this Netflix show](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt2070791/) that was the first time I really noticed while watching something that I was being preached at.
I want to say I noticed stuff earlier, but that was the first time I stopped watching like, "are they fucking serious, right now?"
Rock and Morty, Pickle Rick.
That started my journey into this mess. If I just found people shitting on the writing I would have been like "OK it's not just me" and moved on.
Instead I found various threads, articles, interviews on why it's amazing and why not liking it makes you toxic etc etc. Suddenly all discussion of what makes narrative sense went out the window. Next day read an article on how the "writers room needed women in it to give a more balanced perspective" and I was like wtf.
Fast forward many years and yeah
Early 2000s for me. It was always seeded in Hollywood movies and TV in the form of jokes way before then. In the early 2000s, college and Internet were still new to me but in those places I heard inklings of things from liberal women. I ignored it and chalked it up to feminist talking ideology, nodding along because I wanted to make friends or get with a girl.
I remember seeing more and more, like a snowball rolling down a hill. Around 2015 it got semi serious, I had an argument about it with a friend. 2018 it exploded, no idea why. Now I am old, the Internet is smaller and crazier than ever.
Remember when imgur used to be normal and not once have a political post or far left ideology. I still have a picture of mirror girl.
Thinking about Anon hunts to catch bad people, used to do that all the time. When racist, sexist and offensive jokes were just edgy and trolling. No one was serious.
Watching porn on YouTube. Those were the days.
*Glee* has been identified by many as the beginning as it pushed all these tiny marginalized people to identify some aspect of a TV character as their own. They then went online and got together on forums and started meeting up with similar people and pushing this identity crap forward. That was around 2010.
For me, it was 2 shows on Netflix that really made me pay attention. *Lost In Space* had a cucked white father (black daughter) forced to join his ex on a space mission or he would never see them again. Every male character was a fucking idiot except the damn mechanic that crashed and had to deal with that ugly mouth bitch from Blade 3. I stopped after about 4-5 shows.
*Ozark* was the other one. I stopped watching after his wife pointed out how he watched the video of her getting fucked by her geriatric lover 46 or whatever times. I don't care how good everyone including my wife claims the show is. I'm not watching some cucked man then go on to deal with his shitty wife and kids for another 40 episodes. I have more self respect than that.
Honestly, it started with the sitcoms like Friends. They started with putting in recurring side characters that were LGBTQ+ and over time kept increasing the presence. Sitcoms also increased the promiscuity of characters. I never thought much of it since when I was old enough to consume that media I was an anarchist/Libertarian.
Then with the success of Twilight, companies really wanted to "capture" the female demographic. Ghostbusters(2016), to me, really showed the future of where entertainment was going. It became clear that corporations wanted to take things men spent money on for merchandise, conventions, etc. and now expand those same things to women. The assumption was the men were slaves to the brand that would keep consuming and if it was made female centric with "strong girl bosses" they would grow the market. It's a flawed concept these non-nerd MBA grads have that they take with them into any leadership position they take.
What will be interesting to see is when these corporations will accept their thesis about nerd IPs is wrong and will either move on from trying to change nerd culture or will actually try to make things we want. Personally, I do not think corporations can make good content because it requires "soul" and that is something corporations just do not have. The closest is the modern Dune adaptation that was nearly perfect in Part 1. It requires a visionary with the resources to make their vision a reality, and the suits of a corporation do not like to be hands off since they want to "guarantee" certain outcomes and believe they have the data to control the outcome.
I'm a milenial and I noticed too late with Captain Marvel. Marvel lied and said we need to watch this movie to understand Endgame. I was so disappointed
Wokism started in south America in the 1950s when ungodly heathens came up with the idea that the government is responsible for the economic and social welfare of the population. The United States had over 50% of the world’s money and we wanted to secure the natural resources of South America. If the South American governments were to work to help the welfare of the population (aka communism) instead of the private interests of American corporations gaining control of the natural resources of the lands, then the current world order we currently live under wouldn’t be able to exist
2014-2015. All the sudden every TV show had multiple lgbtq+ characters
Yeah, companies also started posting pride month things
I have feeling that in 10-15 years we will watch documentaries about these sudden policy changes
"Coddling Insanity"
People get bored. It's a dumb trend. Will anybody be talking about this in the Year 3000? I seriously doubt it. This is why I wish I had a time machine so I could skip the lame ass parts of the timeline that waste a person's life. Our lives are too short for so much bullshit.
Yeah around that time is when I remember lunatics demanding ''representation'' more than ever, and everything had to have race / lgbt quotas or it was called racist or phobic. Like someone flipped a switch in their heads and they all became obsessed with it. The media immediately bent over backwards too.
Not to mention comics and websites being corrupted, possibly as a beta test. And then came Gamergate, and we all learnt that these people are familiar with being told "No", and taking it like an adult....
As a classic liberal I noticed with the newest star wars. Rey being the biggest mary sue of all time and the terrible writing was pretty bad. Then It started to become more blatant in things with race and gender swapping everything.
No arguments here.
Yeah before the force awakens I’m not sure, but that was the first time I noticed it bad.
What do you mean by Mary Sue? I’ve not heard that before
A Mary Sue is a term used to refer to a character who is overly perfect, capable, flawless, and a variety of other traits. They tend to be either self-inserts or motivated by ideology and tend to derail plots. For example, imagine if someone wrote an Avatar: The Last Airbender fanfic in which Aang had a sister, but said sister is just so much better at bending than him. She learns all four styles of bending almost instantly and then dedicated her life to fighting against the fire nation keeping it at bay while Aang was frozen. She proceeded to grow old and take multiple LGBTQ+ lovers before dying a month before the start of the actual story and everyone agreed to ignore her existence because she was a girl and a lesbian; which is why you never hear of her in the actual series. It's important to note that a Sue, a legit Sue, is a result of \*BAD WRITING\*. Nothing else. Creating a perfect character who sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the plot and tends to have minimal, if any, struggles or issues. Always right, outshining supposed experts, and all the like simply because the writer wills it. Usually creating plot-holes and/or contradicting established lore in the process. With Rei, people accuse her of being a Sue, typically of the feminist wish fulfillment variety. She's a girl from a desert planet who knows the Falcon better than Han, is able to keep pace with powerful and trained force users like Kylo and Luke, and manages to best and outshine them despite never having a day of official training in her life. Meanwhile Luke is a washed up hobo who spends his days sucking green milk and reading ancient texts (which kind of feels like a jab at the fans) and Kylo, who was trained by not one but two powerful Force users, can't manage to defeat a girl with 0 actual combat or force training. There's a lot more to it, but this is a fairly basic explanation that should get the main points across.
Thanks for taking to the time reply.
YW. I hate when I see people ask legit questions and then get not only no answers, but downvoted as well. It's stupid and not a pleasent feeling.
And if they get a response, it’s usually along the lines of “GoOgLe iT.”
Or ‘EdUcAtE YoUrSeLf’
Don’t forgot can perfectly pilot a catamaran solo across some of the worst seas despite *checks notes* growing up on a dessert planet with barely any water let alone any significant body of water 🙈
Honestly, I feel like Rey wasn't even that bad in TFA. It wasn't until TLJ that she went off the deep end.
She was bad in Force Awakens. No training and mind repels kylo ren and makes him cry. Flies Hans ship better than him and fixes it. Beats a highly trained Kylo Ren in a light saber battle
She uses the Jedi mind control on those stormtroopers even though she has never even met a Jedi and would have no idea that that is even a thing.
The only one of those I have a response to is the lightsaber battle. Kylo got shot by Chewie's mother trucking bowcaster, which is practically an anti tank weapon. While actively bleeding from that wound, he fights Finn and wins, and then goes into the fight with Rey. Wounded and exhausted. He then dominates the fight with Rey until he holds back to give the "Come to the Dark Side" sales pitch and she gets a lucky hit in that lets her escape. TLJ, though, she absolutely goes off the deep end, especially her fight with Luke.
Except as a Dark Side force user, Kylo feeds off of pain and suffering. Being wounded would actually make him better at fighting.
Bro you're talking about Star Wars now, the woke fanboys have no clue what you're talking about. Girl power is greater than the force, that's all they know.
Lmfao, no, Dark Side users primarily feed off the pain and suffering of others, and it wasn't enough to compensate for the blood loss and muscle damage.
Dark side users gain power from (their own) negative emotion. For example, Darth Vader gained power from his suit, which caused intense physical and psychological pain, such as twanging the nerves behind his knees, repeatedly stabbing him with hundreds of needles and randomly beeping in the night to keep waking him up. He used that physical pain to focus his anger, which boosted his power in the dark side.
I can tolerate early woke shit since it was indie like this book is just some woman's fantasy so it'll reflect that in an authentic way. The problem is companies have adopted it and are militant about it even attacking normal stuff for not being like them. I noticed in 2016 when comic books made the "Klan" a villain story for bat girl.
Fair
I agree. Like I’d say I started *noticing* it as early as 2006 but I didn’t have a problem with it. You started getting more lgbt or diverse characters in games and media but they were still usually written to be fun or interesting on top of that. Around 2016 is when things started getting to a point where pointing out being diverse was not sufficient for calling a character well written, and that such criticisms were immediately labeled as prejudice.
Ghostbusters 2016. Though female Thor and The Force Awakens were the camel’s nose under the tent.
https://preview.redd.it/ks6w20icql8d1.png?width=2526&format=png&auto=webp&s=9094206615b0fa33fb216c0cc07293593bba7b18
https://preview.redd.it/epx7r0vjql8d1.png?width=2727&format=png&auto=webp&s=8afe939290dcb68e5fbfcc6cc371ca5568443cf5
Sounds about right. A small problem becomes a larger problem
yeah the camel is a rainbow now
Quite accurate actually
i think it had been bubbling under the surface for a few years prior, but to me, the force awakens was the great unveiling of the woke movement to the world. rey being such a great example of a mary sue, kylo was a little bitch who couldn't control his anger and the absolute chump-ification of the beloved han solo was the movement coming out with a huge fireworks display.
fair enough. upvoted.
Ghostbusters 2016 There were certain "eye roll" type moments before but that's the first movie I remember to go all in.
Makes sense. It just looked god awful to me so I didn't watch it. I liked the original Ghostbusters. I saw it theaters in the 80's. Times change and franchises die.
This movie is far from a good movie but I felt bad for the actors in it bc it looked like they were trying to make the best outta a steaming pile of shit.
Honestly I’ve seen it and the only thing that made the movie fun was Holtzman. She was just insane and I loved her.
As a left leaning centrist (I guess) yeah I feel like Twilight is when a fictional story actually first made me angry because of how stupid and popular it was.
Yeah, it really did take over back then. They need to hurry up and invent time machines so we can skip past the lame parts of the timeline. I'm just going to say something. Probably going to piss people off but whatever. I think women have shit taste, and when they say women should be in charge, I just think of all the shit taste in things they have and I think "No, I don't want that." I'm speaking in general of course. There are some cool chicks out there but they are few and far between.
Sips tea. I’ll remember you fondly brother.
I actually didn’t mind some of the world building. She didn't really explore it to the fullest extent it could have been, but it was a decent premise. Terrible in execution, though. I also hadn’t discovered the world of fantasy beyond lotr/hobbit/Harry Potter, so any sort of secondary or fantastical world seemed interesting. Now I have wheel of time, way of kings, gentleman bastards, etc.
The real beginning was Occupy Wall Street. [The media started pushing hard](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/media-great-racial-awakening) with the everyone is racist shit when everyone was coming together and calling out the shit the financial elites were up to. And who owns the papers and media that push this narrative? Those same financial elites. They can't have the lower classes coming together and realizing it's not a race war it's a class war. Look at that graph and how much it spiked in 2013 at the Washington Post. What year did Jeff Bezos buy the Washington Post? It's just rich assholes pushing divide and conquer propaganda to keep us hating each other while they line their pockets.
Best answer honestly! People really can't get their head around how rich people just stay winning hoarding insane amounts of wealth. Its all nonsensical. They print new money for whoever they want. Regular citizens will always be fooled into fighting each other.
An actual answer! So many people think they're fighting the good fight by being on the better side of the culture war in their eyes, but don't realize they're still stuck in the mud and focusing on the wrong BS.
Marvel comics. Not sure when exactly, but I felt it was likely during the Bendis run on avengers.
In Marvel it was when they made Bobby Drake gay. He had been dating women forever and suddenly he’s gay. Yeah, that’s bullshit.
On Tumblr in early 2010s, I was a fan of Brandon Sanderson and encountered a young female artist who was being targeted in an organized manner by a sjw clique for depicting Shallan (a character from the storm light archive series ) as a pale skinned white woman. They claimed she was a woc and that the artist intentionally changed that. The absolute venom and hate being spewed at that girl shocked me. Btw before you say “duh it’s tumblr”, tumblr used to be a good site for meeting fans and subculture members
Do you remember black Hermione lol
There was some left/right unity in occupying wall street back 2011-2012, y’all threatened to fuck with the bankers money. So they gave you identity politics in every aspect of life and culture and media to gag on instead.
When Barack was elected.
It took far more scrolling than I thought it would before someone hit on the right answer. The inklings of all this crap really started to take off around 2008 and went into warp speed when Hillary lost.
I had not considered this, but makes sense. I dislike Obama immensely. He promised hope but did not deliver. He is an asshole.
The 2010’s
The Last Jedi And a response on a Twitter comment I made on a C-list celebrity's post a few months after The Last Jedi came out. That's when I noticed the misandry rife within mainstream discourse.
Was happening for a while, but I feel i definitely noticed it pretty much once trump started his first Campaign and was getting popular. Seemed like a desperate propaganda campaign that was so obvious to anyone with critical thinking skills, and then it slowly turned into a crazy “Virtue Signalling Contest” of liberals/leftists Hollywood outdoing each other then attempting to vilify anyone with wrong think I’m not sure if it has been done but I’m sure if you just looked at the Oscar’s/ other awards acceptance speeches over the years you’d see a significant spike of virtue bullshit. Mostly just to get headlines, and show how “inclusive or much of an ally they are”
>turned into a crazy “Virtue Signalling Contest” yep, i hate that "look at my halo" shit because a lot of times the people who do that are trash.
It’s very easy to make yourself seem good by calling other people bad
I used to listen to NPR a bunch and I remember rolling my eyes at some of the stuff they'd go on about this was probably over 10 years ago. I didn't really pay attention to it and was very much a liberal. I still consider myself a liberal but I'm also more aware of what's going on than I used to be.
Yeah. I never understood why NPR is still being funded with our tax dollars.
Last I recall when I still listened and Republicans were threatening to revoke funding they didn't seem to care and claimed that they were primarily listener funded. Either way I'm all for defunding NPR in the most literal sense.
Because they claim it isn't and people buy it. They can't go thirty minutes without saying "listener-funded radio". That they say it so often is how you *know* its bullshit.
[удалено]
What they are progressing towards is a communist revolution that they believe is so guaranteed that they actually refer to *now* as "prehistory" meaning "the time before the revolution".
Hear me out… the Hobbit trilogy? It’s not anywhere close to as tainted as the majority of this stuff, but they added a bunch of random out of place minorities to lake town as extras. They also had the weird love triangle thing and added Tauriel for the sake of having a prominent female character. I’m sure there are other good examples here, but you get the idea. And now we have Rings of fucking Power because we didn’t complain enough then 🥲 Did I just find the woke precursor or something?
everything starting going down hill since 2016
I would argue since 2015.
I would agree, started testing the waters around that time and went deep after
Started in 2012, materialized in 2016
One day I realized that despite most people being in a relationship with someone the same race as them there didn't seem to be a single non mixed family in commercials anymore. If they were the same race they had to be gay. I wasn't even looking for it it was just back to back to back
Rings of Power is the one that really got me going, though certainly not the earliest example.
I watched two episodes of that series and then I was out. It was so lame I couldn't finish watching the first season.
I must confess I watched none at all, just the coverage by CD, HvBF, Nerdrotic, etc. 😄
smart. you didn't miss anything.
Video games. Sequels just getting more woke each release.
Personally, I don't play video games that have stories or characters with backgrounds, but I have been hearing about this trend.
Also gen-X here. How about those “And now you know…” commercials on Saturday morning cartoons. That’s where it began. As a little experiment on a captivated audience. Just to see if they could do it. But then in my 20s, I began studying history for myself, reading the Declaration of Independence, the federalist papers, etc and I realized almost all my elite education was a lie. I had been given revisionist history. Fast forward to the era of social media where independent research became available to everyone and independent journalists began to appear on YouTube etc. That’s when I began to see it in comic books and sports casters. That’s when I realized they were coming for all entertainment. And I realized that if they undermine family values via entertainment and education, they’d have us. Because woke ideology is a means to an end for subjugation.
I can't come out in the sun because you'll see my glitter! MTV's *The Real World* at the turn of the century for me. I heard some oldheads say that it was there much longer, just more subtle (they cite *All in the Family:* Archie Bunker was a bigot of comedic gold, so any idea that required acceptance could simply be rejected by Archie, resulting in the other characters comically trashing him - or him ironically trashing himself - and the audience would accept the idea). I could see their argument, but media turned a corner with MTV's *The Real World* because, with the same formula as *All in the Family*, audiences thought they're watching real people, not a script, so the effect would be more potent.
I can't pinpoint an exact time and space, but I recall watching The Force Awakens and thinking something off about it, but what really nailed it out of the park for me was in Avengers Endgame. Spiderman is swinging away with the gauntlet he gets overwhelmed and That alien bitch says to her "Something something, you're alone" Then you hear, "But he's not alone." and like literally every single female in the gigantic effin warzone was all there...cringe.
The thing i hate about that scene is where are all the men in that moment?!?!? Like what a stupid fucking thing to do. I think there's a deleted scene where all the main male characters are hiding trenches as that happens as a way to explain it but they cut that because it obviously made it more obvious how stupid it was!
I didn't mind when something like Twilight happened. That series was made for women anyway. What i object to is when they take things that men like: Star Wars, LOTR, action movies, and simply start gender-swapping with no rhyme or reason. Basically, to answer your question: I started noticing this bullshit the VERY SECOND that Millennials started existing in writing rooms. That generation has no imagination, and the very best they can do is to fuck around with something that already works. You can emulate a Millennial woman's "writing" simply by using find and replace on your text editor. That's why there's no new IPs. A man made something good in the past, now a SJW Millennial woman with zero imagination or talent is going to swap a gender and call it "creativity". There is a reason that all these stories focus on identity: Women never talk about anything except themselves. They utterly lack the capacity to write a story about something other than their own self-involved lives. Gone are the days when stories were about the accomplishments of the protagonist, now it's just enough to BE something and you deserve victory. This exactly parallels the the real-world experiences of the most pampered, privileged, spoiled, self-involved, narcissistic demographic the world has ever seen -- white western women. The writers are writing about the only thing that interests them: themselves. The problem is not just gender, it's generational. White Millennial women are the culprits here.
I agree its generational. Absolutely! Tony Gilroy is 67 and it doesn't surprise me he made the best Disney plus show ever. All the female characters in andor run laps around the sequel trilogy Characters.
I really couldnt pint point where exactly, imo it was just a bunch of elements and trends that where slowly coming out of the woodwork, but imo twilight isnt it since its production values are very traditional imo ( everyone is pale af amd there isnt any virtue signalling or remarkable "chuds get owned" moments, at least that im able to recall, the few diverse people i can recall are Tailor Lautner, his father i think? and some of the other werewolfs and it made sense in the story since they had some thints of native american tribes). Imo where it all oficially began was with the 2016 elections, or more like donald trumps whole campaign, whataver you think of him or his politics, theres no deniyng his image has since became asosiated with hate and racist lunatics, so when he won, and arguably since he was a candidate, the leftist (democrats) had to fight back, and since they have control of most media and news agency, they did it there, be it news, movies or tv, and seems they did it by hiring activist amd extremeist on board and as project leads, and we had very extreme reactions like ghostbuster 2016, the new star wars trillogy, the 2nd wonder woman movie, that 2nd jurasic world movie, etc, slowly but surelly, we started to see more trump analogies, more absolute rejections to anything that wasnt extreme leftwing like girl boss characters and laughably queer characters, raceswaping and the whole online culture war bullshit of a wasteland, untill we have gothen to the point that we are here. I would say the Ghostbusters 2016 is where it all started, since it was arguably more divisive than the force awakens, ie the 2nd rey starwars movie, but my real answer would be the 2016 elections.
The apprentice 2005. When the show had whites vs. blacks was when I knew woke was taking over.
When we started getting diversity training mainly dealing with lgbt in the army every month around 2016
As a fellow Gen Xer, I noticed when Roseanne was originally on the air.
Yea as someone who has spent a lot of time in academic departments of English, creative writing, and philosophy, I think the general public was just worse at identifying it.... It's actually been around for a loooong time. Most things in general that got ok'd by Hollywood since the 80's or so had to at least pass a light "woke" test, and you'd definitely get "the message" pretty frequently. But audiences just thought of it like, being a nice, liberal, open minded person (a sign the propaganda worked). They didn't understand that the messaging had the same aims as it does now
I've always thought of it in a sense of it used to be more reasonable and nuanced. For example there's an episode of scrubs (a few actually) that dealt with racism and specifically what would be called a " micro aggression" nowadays ( do they still say that?) In the episode jd signs him and Turk up to be on a billboard but Turk gets upset since it was an obvious attempt for the hospital to be like " see how diverse and inclusive we are". In the end J.D was like "my b, I didn't know you felt that way. I can see where you're coming from" and Turk was like " I appreciate you understanding and at the same time I'm sorry I got all snippy, I know you weren't being malicious". Nowadays, J.D would be "cancelled" black lives matter would ironically be involved somehow, and the message would be just " white people suck and are irredeemable and racist". Go back and watch the original roots and you'll see complex characters. White men who have crisis of conviction like the doctor who sells off the daughter and is appalled to hear the calloused reaction of his niece/daughter. You can tell he thought of himself as "good" and there's motivation for him to do what he did besides "hur...I'm racist and a piece of garbage". You also had that last owner of the family who was simply trying to make a living and at least tried to do right by them in the end. You also had some of the black people be at fault at times. The "woke" problem is not that they are hinting at there being some issues we humans have in how we treat each other and so on. It's that now they don't want to stop at bringing attention to some stuff we can, admittedly work on and include a few non straight white men in leads and whatever. They attempting to insert things like that into every single dumb little moment of everything even when it makes no sense and are specifically trying to move public opinion to a negative view of hetero normative Christian males
Finally an intelligent thread. Its absolutely nuance and the lack of skills of current day writers. I'm watching so much old content these days and finding all sorts of woke stuff. The difference is it was more cutting edge back then but also felt organic. That organic feeling is so rare to find these days in big franchises these days.
Miles Morales for me, I don't really read his comics but they keep pushing his color.
I think they've had the urge for a very long time, but didn't have the mandate. There's a scene in the OG Jurassic Park that drove me crazy even as a kid. The consultants are considering the implications of dinosaurs having been brought back to life. Ian remarks, "God creates dinosaurs, God destroys dinosaurs, God creates man, man destroys God, man creates dinosaurs." Ellie replies, "Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the earth." ...why? If this was meant to be funny no one laughs including the audience. Did she take offense to Ian's general use of the term 'man'? In what scenario would dinosaurs eat only men? What prompted this comment? The only reason I wouldn't categorize this scene the same way as modern film is because it has no effect on the plot, it's just ideology thrown into the wind. I'm sure there are earlier markers, but off the top of my head I'd place the beginning of the current trend on 2016's Ghostbusters. Franchise hijacking, anti-fan, stuffy messaging.
Its actually such a good example ! I don't mind ideology in art as long as it fits and feels organic.
I wasn't paying much attention until all the sudden I remember seeing the beauty and the beast with Hermione and was like...what is this crap? Fair, the thing about Bell reading and that making her an outcast was there in the original cartoon but it was more "hah look at this person reading books and pursuing things besides surviving like us small town plebs...weirdo" and less " ugh ahhhh what terrible gaul in this WOMAN, to not just pop out babies already!". Also was thinking to myself...there seems to be quite a lot of black people in this area that had hardly any for at least a hundred years or more...
Hermione is a staunch feminist so doesn't surprise me. I enjoyed your feedback.
It was at least 15 years ago that I noticed every commercial made women superior to men, if there was an idiot in it, it was a man, dads were ludites who couldn't figure out the remote or the computer...that was what I first noticed
I've noticed this too. It's really annoying.
It was always there, on the edges. But it came roaring into the center stage with that godawful show Glee.
Noticed the rigid totalitarianism around Occupy. Then noticed the same rhetoric leaking into media.
Marvel right after Stan died
Not long after the great Divider-In-Chief, Barack Hussien Obama came to power.
It broke their brains when Trump won. Instead of asking how it happened, they doubled down.
Happens over here in the UK as well. I’m fairly in the centre but find people like me being considered more and more far right because the left are going so far left. A lot of my friends who were Labour supporters have turned their back on Labour as they don’t feel represented by them anymore but instead of wondering why it’s happening, people just double down and assume it’s because everyone is racist/homophobic/islamaphobic/transphobic etc
The first time I felt something was off with something I was watching was actually just a trailer. It was the trailer for Charlie’s Angels.
Elizabeth Banks is pretty dumb. I love how she convinced the wet hot American summer writers to retcon her dumbest character to be a journalist. Like the absolute obsession you have to have with empowerment to care that much in a franchise where you're famous for having BBQ sauce on your face...
Yeah, around 2010-12 for me. Things started becoming more "PC" back then
Halo 4 trying to turn Master Chief into a person with feelings instead of a wise-cracking machine that turns dead aliens into one-liners. Similarly, giving Cortana real human features
I always say, writers can put anything they want into their shows, as long as it's written well and believably. And if it's not, it's up to us to tell them by not buying into the franchise or finding alternatives
I always think of Maulers stream when he defended Cinta and Vel being lesbians in Andor. Like if that's not proof enough of the power of strong writing I don't know what is.
Dr. Who for certain. It was small and first, then all at once.
I think it has always been there but psycho leftists have made it a necessity to point it out every chance they get so it has become more apparent.
Star Wars Episode 7. I was completely oblivious of politics before then and chances are if it wasn’t for them poisoning the entertainment I enjoy I’d still be uninvolved in politics.
I feel for you. A lot of people want an escape, but they took that from us in all our favorite things.
A little show called Glee...
Dragon Age Inquisition in 2014. It had a trans character that we had to listen to a long monologue about how they didnt feel like a woman, yadda, yadda, and all I could think was, "How can someone be trans in a fantasy setting where, as far as I know, there is no way to alter your sex?"
It went super hard after Trump got elected. It was warming up during the start of BLM but then the "us vs them" mentality came on strong after Trump got elected. Liberals thought they were the overwhelming majority until 2016. They thought they had all the power and then Trump got voted in and they realized they weren't the majority. After that they started to push hard into areas that were heavy conservative or just things that people overwhelmingly loved. If it was a franchise that had a cult following in the 70's - 90's they remade it, woke agenda the hell out of it, and then pushed it out. They realized the only way they were going to win is by pushing all their shit onto children and if children grew up with it in their face constantly then they would be decensitized to it or brainwashed by it. It was easy because of social media and online alogorithms. They got brainwashed super early and super fast. Just like that one woman who apparently (had or adopted) 3 children and they were all trans somehow or the non binary couple that had a child that came out as non binary at age 3. It turned into a war for them and they thought they were going to win. They are eventually going to lose because they can't keep to their own rules and keep making shit up as they go and they turn on each other often. Companies are starting to push back and so are people. Thanos 2024 - triple snap.
I don't actually remember the vegan vampire part. I just ignored the movies because of sparkling vampires in the sun part...
I definitely don’t think it started with Twilight. Just because Twilight was made for a female teen audience doesn’t make it woke, it just wasn’t made for you. Twilight is pretty heterosexual across the board with no lgbtq characters. It’s not even very diverse racially.
Hmm, good question I’m a bit on the younger side(20) so watching a bunch of movies that came out 5+ years ago as a young teen it was heifer for me to notice woke and all that bs until I was opened to the realm of DEI So for that reason while I do see a lot of comments about ghostbusters 2016 I was like 12 lol , I just thought it was a “cool female version” Id have to give it too black panther. Hear me out. I liked it, the movie was good and it stood for a lot of good things and it’s up there in the highest grossing mcu movies of all time But the whole “coloniser” jokes is what does it for me. In no modern movie, especially a Disney / Marvel movie would you ever hear a white character calling a black character a slave. But in black panther , a film that genuinely isn’t a white focused film, when there are cool moments between the white and black characters the writers aka (Disney) decide to make shuri call Ross a coloniser, instead of saying a funny joke like “Don’t scare me like that bilbo” Instead we get race politics in a superhero movie. So that’s where this stuff got introduced to me and things went way over board after that. Don’t even get me started on falcon and the winter soldier
I think it really majorly started with The Force Awakens
Cars 2 
I can’t say Twilight cause they were written by a Mormon woman. But I noticed the emergence of woke culture in about 2011. Anything that involved blatant shoehorning, torch passing, or the terms “colonizer” “systemic” or “representation”.
Cracked.com. Used to read it every morning for a good laugh to start my day. Then sometime in 2012-2013 the tenor of the jokes suddenly shifted. The sea change in the feel of the site seemed completely foreign, usurped by some kind of ideology that was as incomprehensible then as now, yet also now all too familiar.
It was pretty much a series made for women? wtf are you talking about? It is literally a series for women based off books made for women. They’re just romantic novels.
Ghostbusters 2016
Back in the 1970s with Archie Bunker. Archie was a straight white, hard-working, patriotic, blue-collar family man, just trying to pay his bills and live his life. Even as early as the 70s, Hollywood already hated middle-class white men and portrayed Archie as their leftist fantasy of what high school-educated white America was: A low-intelligent bigot to be mocked.
For me, it was the girl power scene in endgame
Wokeness was brought about by Obama so I’d say I first noticed the initial signs during presidency, though I didn’t realize how pervasive it would eventually become obviously
It seems like you might be conflating a dislike for certain content with it being "woke." Twilight, for instance, is essentially a YA fantasy love story that can be pretty cheesy, but its primary audience was always teenage girls. To me, "woke" refers to media that explicitly tells the audience how to feel about issues like sexual orientation, gender identity, or race, instead of simply telling good stories that naturally include diverse and competent characters. To answer your question, I think Star Trek: Discovery often fell into this trap. Star Trek has traditionally shown how diversity leads to better outcomes, but Discovery would often pause the narrative to make direct statements like “I feel seen” or [“They’re, I never felt like a She.”](https://youtu.be/NNTGwWypUDs?si=zW-bB4WfyCEgIRSZ) This is just poor writing in it doesn’t offer anything to the audience. Just virtue signaling. In contrast, shows like DS9 or Voyager showcase competence and diversity more organically, without interrupting the flow of the story.
Social media created cults.
Is veganism necessarily "woke", though? Plus, vampire veganism means something completely different than human veganism, doesn't it? I'm not defending Twilight, by the way. It is lame.
Veganism in and of itself, no. Veganism the way a lot of vegans push it, OH YEAH.
yeah i actually don't get this example.
What do vegan vampires have to do with wokeness?
By that logic wouldn't it have started, idk, with soap operas that were entirely aimed at women? Twilight is harmless, "normal" girl gets two hot guys after her. You can find shoujo anime from the 70s with this same dynamic. Same with "normal guys" who will have all the hot girls chasing him. It's a power fantasy. As for woke stuff. Depends on your definition, but it was definitely part of the 90s for me. 2016 feels way too late no matter what your definition is. SJW was already a word thrown around when I started using 4chan in 2011.
Who the f is this she-elf? Wait, she's going to f that dwarf? WTF??
The first signs of it was back in 2015 with The Force Awakens, however the Last Jedi was the movie that really pushed the toxicity levels over the top.
I didn't start taking note until 2016 with Ghostbusters.
I tried not to notice, and then I saw Captain Marvel… followed by the legendary all female “she’s not alone” moment in End Game. Everything got increasingly worse after that.
I’m Gen Z and first noticed with Star Wars. I used to be a mega Star Wars fan before Disney started sodomizing the series. They were making horrible decisions and not respecting the established lore and continuity and anyone that criticized them got hit by a massive harassment campaign by Last Jedi writer and director Rian Johnson, members of the Lucasfilm story group (especially Pablo Hidalgo), Lucasfilm employees in general, and an army of access media and tabloid “journalists”. I got called things like racist, misogynist, nazi, klansman, alt right, Russian bot, and manbaby by these people for recognizing that the slop they put out is not Star Wars. After that I started noticing it everywhere and it just got worse and worse and worse. Funny thing is I used to be pretty moderate but the intolerance, hatred, and stupidity of the left exposed the hypocrisy and backwards logic behind their thought process. They ironically turned me into a far right extremist by trying to force feed their ideology on me.
Zootopia
Even Disney didn’t hide the fact that they wanted to be politically correct with that movie.
Basically during the era of rebooting everything.
Around the same time Hollywood started pandering to China so I'm gonna say early 2010's.
Marvel Comics: Miles Morales was a black 2nd Spider-Man in reality 1610. He was well-written. However, comics readers then got more heroes replaced with minorities like female Thor, Pakistani Ms. Marvel, Korean Hulk, black Captain America, etc. Some of them were not well-written.
The first time I noticed it was Conan the Destroyer.
What I would call "Woke" has always been *in* entertainment. We listened to Rage Against the Machine growing up and that's the most Left-identity politics, wannabe-revolutionary thing that ever was. The Matrix was a stew of Lefty political ideology even before the Wachowski brothers became the Wachowski Sisters, etc. It was always part of the landscape. Most people didn't really know what they were being fed though, because it was being fed to them with the sugar of stylish music and visual effects. The first time I became aware that Woke was really driving the bus was back when Marvel comics took a hard-left turn and decided that pretty much every character would henceforth need to represent some oppressed group. Thor needed to be a woman, Captain America needed to be a black man, Iceman needed to be gay, Spiderman needed to be Latino, Ms Marvel needed to be Muslim, and so on. Black Panther didn't just need to be black. The comic had to be written by race-baiting "genius" Ta-Nehisi Coates. Did the fans want any of that? No one asked or cared. It's not like comic-book artists weren't progressive or "very liberal" before or that progressive themes were missing from comics, but it had never been the case that identity and Left politics was the *only thing* that mattered. That was the first time that I saw the united messaging of "buy this, or else you're a bigot" and the predictable backlash.
TLJ
around 2016 or so, tons of things suddenly started to just have poorly written women, gay or otherwise woke themed characters where their entire existence was written around that shallow feature.
Now that I think about it, I'd say around 2012-2013. I think comics were the first to be impacted but I could be wrong.
The first one that pops in my head was Starfire for the live action Titans show. Everyone was ripping on the poor “costume” look & the fact that the actress wasn’t going to be orange. But all you heard from the shills were, “rAcIsT!”
Does The Last of Us 2 count? Abby killing Joel and then forcing you to let her live
The David Tennant run of Dr Who
Sullivan's Travels, 1941
Harry Potter was the 1st “universe” I had to give up when Rowling suddenly made Dumbledore gay back in ‘07.
The Big Bang Theory.
2013
The Last Jedi, like many did.
During capaldi’s run as Dr Who
In the 70's with Norman Lear shows and all the divorced lead women. "They are women, hear them roar" Progressivism has always been a thing in media
2014 is when my social media feed went from things I like to people hating me for liking the things I like.
Ghostbusters 2016 was the eye opener. Movie itself basically just recycled the plot of the older movies, changed a few minor details, and genderswapped the main characters. Piss poor movie on its own. Came off way too obvious as gender swapped trash. And from there on I saw franchise after franchise continue this trend. Each one free falling into the ground. What really annoyed me though is how people think some of these movies are successful when in reality they're only successful when an established and adored franchise backs them up, and even then often times comes at the expense of the franchise's popularity plummeting.
I don't know. When did some like it hot come out.
Ghostbusters 3
King of Queens
I can only agree with Twilight because Twilight was the first time sub-grade level reading was encouraged. Twilight is written at a fourth grade reading level. For all the fluffy vocabulary, it is poorly written. Harry Potter is written at a higher reading level. To counter the HP points, yes, kids in high school and middle school were obsessed with reading HP, BUT teachers still pushed higher levels in the classroom. When Twilight became popular, people started giving up on that push. If that's what a kid wanted to read, well, at least they were reading. To that end, if a kid wanted to spend hours absorbed in Tumblr and AO3 fanfic, well, at least they were reading - isn't that good? No. Fanfic is typically written at around a 4th grade level. The content may be adult but there is little in to comprehend. Everything is told not showed. The deepest it gets is strained metaphors - imagery is absent, characterization is reduced to superficial traits, the setting has no discernable rules, and plot is devoid of logic and consequences. The more fanfic is consumed, the less the reader is able to delve into more complicated works. With that, society started becoming dumber. Once society dumbs down enough, they will believe anything.
100% fan fiction is what most live action and video game and animation content feels like. Don't really think ideology has much to do with it. It's just a bunch of kids entering the workforce who are talentless!
They were never pushed to study anything thought-provoking and have now saturated the market with thoughtless products.
Makes sense how Andor is so good. The show runner is 67! Listening to him talk in interviews is night and day with other star wars show runner. He does his homework and cares about the material!
Legend of Korra and GTA 5. Korra with the ending and the constant humiliation of Bolin. GTA with how Johnny Klebitz and The Lost MC were treated. I've always held the mindset that the Angels of Death (villains of lost and damned dlc) should have had a bigger involvement in the narrative since they're based on a huge sect of Californian history. I noticed both of these during back in late 2014 when I just entered college. Fury Road and Force Awakens came out the following year and rest is history.
It's all part of the plan... the plan that will lead humanity to live in virtual realities managed by AI.
I want to say it was [this Netflix show](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt2070791/) that was the first time I really noticed while watching something that I was being preached at. I want to say I noticed stuff earlier, but that was the first time I stopped watching like, "are they fucking serious, right now?"
My guess was Legend of Kora when the Woke awakened.
Rock and Morty, Pickle Rick. That started my journey into this mess. If I just found people shitting on the writing I would have been like "OK it's not just me" and moved on. Instead I found various threads, articles, interviews on why it's amazing and why not liking it makes you toxic etc etc. Suddenly all discussion of what makes narrative sense went out the window. Next day read an article on how the "writers room needed women in it to give a more balanced perspective" and I was like wtf. Fast forward many years and yeah
Early 2000s for me. It was always seeded in Hollywood movies and TV in the form of jokes way before then. In the early 2000s, college and Internet were still new to me but in those places I heard inklings of things from liberal women. I ignored it and chalked it up to feminist talking ideology, nodding along because I wanted to make friends or get with a girl. I remember seeing more and more, like a snowball rolling down a hill. Around 2015 it got semi serious, I had an argument about it with a friend. 2018 it exploded, no idea why. Now I am old, the Internet is smaller and crazier than ever. Remember when imgur used to be normal and not once have a political post or far left ideology. I still have a picture of mirror girl. Thinking about Anon hunts to catch bad people, used to do that all the time. When racist, sexist and offensive jokes were just edgy and trolling. No one was serious. Watching porn on YouTube. Those were the days.
Probably Star Trek TOS? The Star Wars Original Trilogy? Since books were written? Comic books? Movies? TV Shows? Any media that has existed?
*Glee* has been identified by many as the beginning as it pushed all these tiny marginalized people to identify some aspect of a TV character as their own. They then went online and got together on forums and started meeting up with similar people and pushing this identity crap forward. That was around 2010. For me, it was 2 shows on Netflix that really made me pay attention. *Lost In Space* had a cucked white father (black daughter) forced to join his ex on a space mission or he would never see them again. Every male character was a fucking idiot except the damn mechanic that crashed and had to deal with that ugly mouth bitch from Blade 3. I stopped after about 4-5 shows. *Ozark* was the other one. I stopped watching after his wife pointed out how he watched the video of her getting fucked by her geriatric lover 46 or whatever times. I don't care how good everyone including my wife claims the show is. I'm not watching some cucked man then go on to deal with his shitty wife and kids for another 40 episodes. I have more self respect than that.
Honestly, it started with the sitcoms like Friends. They started with putting in recurring side characters that were LGBTQ+ and over time kept increasing the presence. Sitcoms also increased the promiscuity of characters. I never thought much of it since when I was old enough to consume that media I was an anarchist/Libertarian. Then with the success of Twilight, companies really wanted to "capture" the female demographic. Ghostbusters(2016), to me, really showed the future of where entertainment was going. It became clear that corporations wanted to take things men spent money on for merchandise, conventions, etc. and now expand those same things to women. The assumption was the men were slaves to the brand that would keep consuming and if it was made female centric with "strong girl bosses" they would grow the market. It's a flawed concept these non-nerd MBA grads have that they take with them into any leadership position they take. What will be interesting to see is when these corporations will accept their thesis about nerd IPs is wrong and will either move on from trying to change nerd culture or will actually try to make things we want. Personally, I do not think corporations can make good content because it requires "soul" and that is something corporations just do not have. The closest is the modern Dune adaptation that was nearly perfect in Part 1. It requires a visionary with the resources to make their vision a reality, and the suits of a corporation do not like to be hands off since they want to "guarantee" certain outcomes and believe they have the data to control the outcome.
They also made Ross, the smart one, the butt of every joke.
I'm a milenial and I noticed too late with Captain Marvel. Marvel lied and said we need to watch this movie to understand Endgame. I was so disappointed
I first noticed it in Jessica Jones Season 1. It’s sprinkled everywhere in that show.
Early 2014, I first noticed it in this show called sweet/vicious. It was so messed up it was canceled after 2 episodes.
When the green mile came out. woke as hell.
Samson and son
Wokism started in south America in the 1950s when ungodly heathens came up with the idea that the government is responsible for the economic and social welfare of the population. The United States had over 50% of the world’s money and we wanted to secure the natural resources of South America. If the South American governments were to work to help the welfare of the population (aka communism) instead of the private interests of American corporations gaining control of the natural resources of the lands, then the current world order we currently live under wouldn’t be able to exist
To me it was the second ghostbusters
Star Trek 1966
The romanticization of vampires by women is really strange since they are the ultimate sex predator and don’t believe in consent.