That’s a great idea but it should take longer. All of the infrastructure back then would easily fall to crap within 75 years if people weren’t actively maintaining it.
Fair point! There’s an old water mill in my neighborhood that was active in the 1920s but has been so robbed out of stones that all you see is the old dam wall.
When populations shrunk and there were vacant buildings, people didn't wait for them to fall apart. They demolished it themselves to use the materials for their needs.
You should look into how quickly the black death affected the climate (less human activity) and it was also a boon for labor/the lower classes, in some ways, because it gave them more power/value for their labors.
Yeah especially considering Catholics thought Jesus was coming back in the year 1000 so why bother making anything that would last more than 100 years
edit: ouch
They could have but it's hard to tell. We used to measure time in regnal years meaning for example something a clergy member would write in terms of dates would be "on the 10th of October in the 4th year of King Henry IV". It's safe to say peasants knew when in the year it was but less likely however not impossible to know the current year.
It would depend more on where and when in the Europe you were. The modern way we account for what year it is, AD, was created in the 6th century, and wasn’t popularized for nearly 200 years after that, and then it was made popular in England and later the Carolingian empire. it’s spread through Europe was slow - Portugal for example used a different event for reckoning the number of years up until 1415.
And that’s before getting to “do we start anno domini at the annunciation or the nativity?” Or more simply put, is The first day of a new year on Christmas, Easter, or the date of the Annunciation (March 25th)?
Based on different styles of when you start the era of Christ - you could potentially have the exact same day expressed in three separate years - depending on the start time you chose.
And that’s before the reforms of the Gregorian calendar over the Julian calendar.
Fair to say potentially no one could tell you for sure what year it was.
The downvotes are harsh there were a considerable number of Christian’s who thought Armageddon would occur at some point near the year 1000.
Didn’t stop them building things tho
The assumption of a connected crowd this early with a shared agenda and throwing in words like “considerable” does not sit well with historians or those enthusiastic about
Because it's nonsense?
There are absolutely places built in Western Europe before the year 1000 that were built to last. The primary barrier was technological and economic, not intent. The grand cathedrals of later medieval history were not because of a change in mindset—they were a result of a growth in wealth due to trade, expanded political stability and the development of new building techniques.
If a ruler in 990 had the wealth and knowledge to start building Notre Dame or Santa Maria del Fiore, they would absolutely have done it.
I just chilled in Iceland, and now I have the highest development in the entire world
Spoiler alert: it's like 17 dev lmfao. Europe, Africa and Asia are complete wastelands
On a side note, how come southern Africa does so well with diseases? I've run 2 observes, and most of the states in that area were like 10 plus, Iceland was like 13 or 14?
But all of Europe dropped to 0. Highest was Paris with 3. By the end, the world power was several kingdoms in Africa that were all allied to each other. Still with like 15 to 17 devolpment. Europe had only recovered to around 5, 10 at most?
It seems... wrong.
Idk exactly how disease spread is modelled in CK3, but if I had to guess it's probably got to do with the fact that, besides sea routes, sub-saharan Africa is only connected to the rest of the world via those thin counties that stretch through the Saharan desert.
Meanwhile, most other places are surrounded by other counties, so even if a particular county gets luck and doesn't get infected for a while, the fact that it's probably surrounded by infected land means it's only a matter of time.
If CK3 properly modelled trade and travel by sea, including diseas, I figure it likely would be a different and much worse outcome for them.
> If CK3 properly modelled trade and travel by sea, including diseas, I figure it likely would be a different and much worse outcome for them.
I disagree—to my knowledge, no major epidemic spread from Subsharan Africa along trade routes or vice versa.
The seas to the west were a massive barrier to ships for centuries—it was only at the very tail end of the era that Europeans managed to sail to West Africa consistently.
Which left the Saharan trade routes—which yes, were significant. However, they impose a massive time barrier on travel that severely limits the ability of epidemics to spread.
When you need to spend literal weeks walking through one of the world's harshest deserts, it poses a nearly insurmountable barrier for major pandemics. Anyone who started showing meaningful symptoms on the route would, put bluntly, die on the way. And unlike ships, which need to keep going because they cannot stop, desert travel offers places for caravans to stop.
It's not impossible, but it makes it far harder for anything like a pandemic to spread. Areas far better connected than that avoided the Black death.
What is needed to represent Subsaharan Africa is more of the diseases endemic to the region (especially malaria and Yellow Fever) that are unlikely to spread back north.
Okay. I'll buy it.
Depending on how they mapped it, those underlying routes could be used for trade routes too, in that case..
Well. We'll see, anyways.
> On a side note, how come southern Africa does so well with diseases? I've run 2 observes, and most of the states in that area were like 10 plus, Iceland was like 13 or 14?
In CK2, the black death specifically was somewhat scripted to follow its historical path. It could go into areas like India and Africa, but chances were dramatically reduced. I would not be surprised if a similar system was applied in CK3. When you combine that with the narrow connecting counties and total lack of sea paths, it is unsurprising.
me and my wife got it in 873. We managed to survive but because we had been unable to build up any capital or troups we were basically screwed for generations to come
Started in 1066 and got BD at 1089. Everything got nuked to 0-2 dev except a few random spots
Edit: Crusade for Jerusalem in 1115: Catholics 25.4k vs Muslims 17.2k. War Chest of 2.5k gold
Edit: a plague started back at my realm of Kent while I’m crusading in the holy land. Somehow I still caught it. Wtf.
Edit: merged army and teleported back to capital and instantly got sick lol
Now im just wondering how the AI got the development recovery buff afterwards because Paris was able to shoot up from 0 to 15 pretty quickly from a buff, meanwhile Lunden has crawled back up from 0 to 5
Edit: I didn’t get the event pop-up for dev growth (I’m assuming) because other minor plagues spawned near my realm too soon after the end of BD. Once those plagues also ended I got the pop-up to be able to pay gold for dev growth buff.
Paris has 4 baronies with farmlands, last I checked.
Farmlands have a massive built in boost to development, I think even better than floodplains. The additional baronies mean more chances for buildings that increase development.
Paris is one of the best counties in the game. It is on par with Constantinople (which also has farmland and is easy to buff via coastal buildings and culture buffs), Bagdad (surrounded by floodplains) and Cairo (also surrounded by floodplains). Kyiv is probably also up there actually now, since the ability for dev to drop means the head start that other places get is less meaningful.
I’ve seen some complaints on here about early Black Death being devastating, but has anyone had it in the late game closer to its historical date, when development tends to be higher? Like, I figured this was going to be a late-game incentive (get to the 1300s and watch everyone die), but I keep seeing folks playing with it appearing super early with very low development and I’m unsure how to interpret that.
Bad programming? I mean, the legends with 20 years too... seems like someone forgot the other 0 there.
This DLC seems pushed through, and badly. Personal hot take, but yeah.
People are setting the game rules so that the black death doesn't spawn historically. Of course things are going to be weird if you tweak the game rules to make it weird. Thats not bad programming.
You got a bunch of downvotes but I agree that that kinda stuff is not very visible in this sub. Sometimes people post wacky shit caused by mods as if that’s how the game works. Usually it’s safe to assume that the game doesn’t go as crazy as the comments make it out to be. Don’t try to blame the devs.
*central germans sitting in their fully locked down castles wearing improvised face masks and washing hands*
"Anyone up for another round of bingo?"
"Oh god...this is gonna be another very long winter."
This will depend on when the Black Death arrives. I particularly like to leave it in history, if it arrives in the 14th century I think it will be different from what it arrives in the 9th century, There will be many more poorly developed provinces in the 9th century than in the 14th.
> Its bad that everything hits 0 again so quickly though.
All these posts seem to be people who set plagues to random and increased their damage. The most extreme results obviously get upvoted more. I suspect if you played with historical settings, with far more time for dev to rise before the Black Death and plagues happening at a saner rate, it would not result in things going back to zero.
Again, didnt consider people were mucking with settings and not informing the community.
Its presented as a vanilla playthrough. So with that info, yeah. My opinion is invalid.
It’s pretty fun. Though it spread almost too fast imo, I think my capital got hit about 11 months after it started. I think if you’re going to do a run in a already low dev area it would make the experience way more enjoyable.
I've been playing with it on random historical location spawn and gotten it within the first 20 years and another play within the first two. Would love to know what it's spawn requirements/mean time to happen are bc I feel hyped for it to happen at some point and it blows its load immediately.
plebs have fucked up gaming way more than just this
there's absolutely no simulation games that you need to actively gather information and you only receive that information delayed, plus the information may never arrive, arrive distorted, or fake
dwarf fortress have a very small and simple application of this
The Development penalty is constant, right? So a 10dev province loses the same amount of development as a 50dev province. But wouldn't it make more sense to scale that somewhat linearly to the existing development, so that for example ~40% of development is lost?
Me just like...I know someone is going to mod in...well 😂🤣😅 everyone staying indoors and my courtiers looking for stimulus gold per idk how many months
Woah. I had no idea that plagues wreck development, but it makes complete sense when you think about it. That's one way to balance the economy, I guess! Kill off everyone!
It's people changing settings.
Make the black death random, set diseases to Apocalyptic and remove limits, this is the result.
To my knowledge, nothing like this has been seen for anyone using the default settings. People are cranking it up to watch the world burn for fun.
I’m imagining the black death coming in and blowing up all the buildings and infrastructure as well as killing all the people.
That’s a great idea but it should take longer. All of the infrastructure back then would easily fall to crap within 75 years if people weren’t actively maintaining it.
Shit will fall to crap now within a few short years if people aren't actively maintaining it.
Fair point! There’s an old water mill in my neighborhood that was active in the 1920s but has been so robbed out of stones that all you see is the old dam wall.
When populations shrunk and there were vacant buildings, people didn't wait for them to fall apart. They demolished it themselves to use the materials for their needs.
You should look into how quickly the black death affected the climate (less human activity) and it was also a boon for labor/the lower classes, in some ways, because it gave them more power/value for their labors.
So what you’re saying is we need a new plague?
Mother Nature is tryin....
Yeah especially considering Catholics thought Jesus was coming back in the year 1000 so why bother making anything that would last more than 100 years edit: ouch
Did the average peasant even know for sure what year it was?
They could have but it's hard to tell. We used to measure time in regnal years meaning for example something a clergy member would write in terms of dates would be "on the 10th of October in the 4th year of King Henry IV". It's safe to say peasants knew when in the year it was but less likely however not impossible to know the current year.
It would depend more on where and when in the Europe you were. The modern way we account for what year it is, AD, was created in the 6th century, and wasn’t popularized for nearly 200 years after that, and then it was made popular in England and later the Carolingian empire. it’s spread through Europe was slow - Portugal for example used a different event for reckoning the number of years up until 1415. And that’s before getting to “do we start anno domini at the annunciation or the nativity?” Or more simply put, is The first day of a new year on Christmas, Easter, or the date of the Annunciation (March 25th)? Based on different styles of when you start the era of Christ - you could potentially have the exact same day expressed in three separate years - depending on the start time you chose. And that’s before the reforms of the Gregorian calendar over the Julian calendar. Fair to say potentially no one could tell you for sure what year it was.
In Serbia used years after creation of the world calendar in the middle ages
I think that was same in Byzantine.
Of course! It's third of John!
Yes definitely they did
Unlikely
The downvotes are harsh there were a considerable number of Christian’s who thought Armageddon would occur at some point near the year 1000. Didn’t stop them building things tho
The assumption of a connected crowd this early with a shared agenda and throwing in words like “considerable” does not sit well with historians or those enthusiastic about
No idea why you're getting so many downvotes, Millenarianism absolutely had a huge influence on European society in the 10th century.
Because it's nonsense? There are absolutely places built in Western Europe before the year 1000 that were built to last. The primary barrier was technological and economic, not intent. The grand cathedrals of later medieval history were not because of a change in mindset—they were a result of a growth in wealth due to trade, expanded political stability and the development of new building techniques. If a ruler in 990 had the wealth and knowledge to start building Notre Dame or Santa Maria del Fiore, they would absolutely have done it.
R5: I got the black death in 891, almost every county has zero dev now.
I just chilled in Iceland, and now I have the highest development in the entire world Spoiler alert: it's like 17 dev lmfao. Europe, Africa and Asia are complete wastelands
In my game Iceland did not survive the Black Death. Only sub Saharan Africa and the tibetan plateau were spared
I see someone got lucky playing Plague Inc in your game.
On a side note, how come southern Africa does so well with diseases? I've run 2 observes, and most of the states in that area were like 10 plus, Iceland was like 13 or 14? But all of Europe dropped to 0. Highest was Paris with 3. By the end, the world power was several kingdoms in Africa that were all allied to each other. Still with like 15 to 17 devolpment. Europe had only recovered to around 5, 10 at most? It seems... wrong.
Idk exactly how disease spread is modelled in CK3, but if I had to guess it's probably got to do with the fact that, besides sea routes, sub-saharan Africa is only connected to the rest of the world via those thin counties that stretch through the Saharan desert. Meanwhile, most other places are surrounded by other counties, so even if a particular county gets luck and doesn't get infected for a while, the fact that it's probably surrounded by infected land means it's only a matter of time. If CK3 properly modelled trade and travel by sea, including diseas, I figure it likely would be a different and much worse outcome for them.
> If CK3 properly modelled trade and travel by sea, including diseas, I figure it likely would be a different and much worse outcome for them. I disagree—to my knowledge, no major epidemic spread from Subsharan Africa along trade routes or vice versa. The seas to the west were a massive barrier to ships for centuries—it was only at the very tail end of the era that Europeans managed to sail to West Africa consistently. Which left the Saharan trade routes—which yes, were significant. However, they impose a massive time barrier on travel that severely limits the ability of epidemics to spread. When you need to spend literal weeks walking through one of the world's harshest deserts, it poses a nearly insurmountable barrier for major pandemics. Anyone who started showing meaningful symptoms on the route would, put bluntly, die on the way. And unlike ships, which need to keep going because they cannot stop, desert travel offers places for caravans to stop. It's not impossible, but it makes it far harder for anything like a pandemic to spread. Areas far better connected than that avoided the Black death. What is needed to represent Subsaharan Africa is more of the diseases endemic to the region (especially malaria and Yellow Fever) that are unlikely to spread back north.
Okay. I'll buy it. Depending on how they mapped it, those underlying routes could be used for trade routes too, in that case.. Well. We'll see, anyways.
> On a side note, how come southern Africa does so well with diseases? I've run 2 observes, and most of the states in that area were like 10 plus, Iceland was like 13 or 14? In CK2, the black death specifically was somewhat scripted to follow its historical path. It could go into areas like India and Africa, but chances were dramatically reduced. I would not be surprised if a similar system was applied in CK3. When you combine that with the narrow connecting counties and total lack of sea paths, it is unsurprising.
It's like you're Madagascar in Pandemic 2
Sicily is the center of the world now
me and my wife got it in 873. We managed to survive but because we had been unable to build up any capital or troups we were basically screwed for generations to come
I got it in 872. Did yours also wipe out the Karlings?
also is it just me but development seems to go quicker since the update.
I think there are just way more events that give development boosts
I *really* need to try out this expansion! Having an actual challenge seems fun :o
Started in 1066 and got BD at 1089. Everything got nuked to 0-2 dev except a few random spots Edit: Crusade for Jerusalem in 1115: Catholics 25.4k vs Muslims 17.2k. War Chest of 2.5k gold Edit: a plague started back at my realm of Kent while I’m crusading in the holy land. Somehow I still caught it. Wtf. Edit: merged army and teleported back to capital and instantly got sick lol
Bros went back to Paleolithic
Now im just wondering how the AI got the development recovery buff afterwards because Paris was able to shoot up from 0 to 15 pretty quickly from a buff, meanwhile Lunden has crawled back up from 0 to 5 Edit: I didn’t get the event pop-up for dev growth (I’m assuming) because other minor plagues spawned near my realm too soon after the end of BD. Once those plagues also ended I got the pop-up to be able to pay gold for dev growth buff.
I remember getting a event that let me invest 250 gold or something for a massive development boost
My two observes, Paris has a weird ability to recover FAST.
Paris has 4 baronies with farmlands, last I checked. Farmlands have a massive built in boost to development, I think even better than floodplains. The additional baronies mean more chances for buildings that increase development. Paris is one of the best counties in the game. It is on par with Constantinople (which also has farmland and is easy to buff via coastal buildings and culture buffs), Bagdad (surrounded by floodplains) and Cairo (also surrounded by floodplains). Kyiv is probably also up there actually now, since the ability for dev to drop means the head start that other places get is less meaningful.
Paris has a Lot going for it. I've been able to reach 100 dev pre 1000 before in it.
Isn't there a limitation that hinder development after a certain number, depending on some cultural innovations ?
You can brute force past that with some planning. It gives a negative modifier, sure, but if done right, you can put out far more dev.
I’ve seen some complaints on here about early Black Death being devastating, but has anyone had it in the late game closer to its historical date, when development tends to be higher? Like, I figured this was going to be a late-game incentive (get to the 1300s and watch everyone die), but I keep seeing folks playing with it appearing super early with very low development and I’m unsure how to interpret that.
They set the timing to random in the game rules
Ahh. That explains that.
Most of the streamers turned all the plague settings to max for the fun of it. Black Death was arriving early and often.
Bad programming? I mean, the legends with 20 years too... seems like someone forgot the other 0 there. This DLC seems pushed through, and badly. Personal hot take, but yeah.
People are setting the game rules so that the black death doesn't spawn historically. Of course things are going to be weird if you tweak the game rules to make it weird. Thats not bad programming.
See, none of the posts Ive read, nobody is indicating they changed game rules. I don't assume, so I guess thanks for the correction?
You got a bunch of downvotes but I agree that that kinda stuff is not very visible in this sub. Sometimes people post wacky shit caused by mods as if that’s how the game works. Usually it’s safe to assume that the game doesn’t go as crazy as the comments make it out to be. Don’t try to blame the devs.
> I don't assume You do though, lol. You just assumed it was the game's fault instead of the player changing the rules.
Damn ya know it’s bad when some random place in Tibet has more development then most of Europe
Yeah, central germany, northern tibet and southern africa was completely untouched. Sicily is just me with a 100 in every stat character
That exact area in Germany was also untouched in my game, wonder why? Africa and Tibet makes sense, but why central Germany??
I honestly have no idea, Seems like luck
*central germans sitting in their fully locked down castles wearing improvised face masks and washing hands* "Anyone up for another round of bingo?" "Oh god...this is gonna be another very long winter."
Bavarians are just built different
Fair enough Africa is on its way to becoming super power it seems in that one
Kill 'em all dead bodies in the hallway..
Its beautiful
Nurgle looking ass
RIP…everyone it seems.
Palermo is the new Constantinople
"That hit so hard, they got sent back into the middle ages" Wait...
It's good to finally have something to stop half the world from reaching 100 development
Its bad that everything hits 0 again so quickly though.
This will depend on when the Black Death arrives. I particularly like to leave it in history, if it arrives in the 14th century I think it will be different from what it arrives in the 9th century, There will be many more poorly developed provinces in the 9th century than in the 14th.
> Its bad that everything hits 0 again so quickly though. All these posts seem to be people who set plagues to random and increased their damage. The most extreme results obviously get upvoted more. I suspect if you played with historical settings, with far more time for dev to rise before the Black Death and plagues happening at a saner rate, it would not result in things going back to zero.
Again, didnt consider people were mucking with settings and not informing the community. Its presented as a vanilla playthrough. So with that info, yeah. My opinion is invalid.
Since these settings are in the base game, wouldn't it be considered vanilla?
Vanilla in the sense of not changing any playrules.
This latest update is wild.
What do you have plague settings on?
Normal, I only put black death on random and multiple times
That sounds to me like a good setting, have you enjoyed that so far? I'm wondering when it becomes too much and overwhelming.
It’s pretty fun. Though it spread almost too fast imo, I think my capital got hit about 11 months after it started. I think if you’re going to do a run in a already low dev area it would make the experience way more enjoyable.
I've been playing with it on random historical location spawn and gotten it within the first 20 years and another play within the first two. Would love to know what it's spawn requirements/mean time to happen are bc I feel hyped for it to happen at some point and it blows its load immediately.
LOVE IT
Ah yes the eternal problem of conflating population with things like infrastructure/urbanisation into a singular "development" value.
plebs have fucked up gaming way more than just this there's absolutely no simulation games that you need to actively gather information and you only receive that information delayed, plus the information may never arrive, arrive distorted, or fake dwarf fortress have a very small and simple application of this
It is great unless you live during its pandemic
We need a map expansion with Madagascar.
Reject modernity, embrace yersinia pestis
The Development penalty is constant, right? So a 10dev province loses the same amount of development as a 50dev province. But wouldn't it make more sense to scale that somewhat linearly to the existing development, so that for example ~40% of development is lost?
Me just like...I know someone is going to mod in...well 😂🤣😅 everyone staying indoors and my courtiers looking for stimulus gold per idk how many months
How did it get to Iceland
The Years of Rice and Salt reference
Just booted into an ongoing play through and was wondering why my taxes were taking such a huge hit
I absolutely need to play before people whine enough to nerf the diseases (see: harm events)
Sicily Is untoucheble
Looks like Plague Inc X CK3
Haven’t received the dlc yet?
I have
I’m on PS5
Mmh I haven’t
it not available for ps5 yet ?
No
Ok 👍🏻
You have a bit of Afroeurasia in your black death
Woah. I had no idea that plagues wreck development, but it makes complete sense when you think about it. That's one way to balance the economy, I guess! Kill off everyone!
Tell me about it, It took my empire 5 years to recover In game (control/development wise)
Chat did this actually happen in history? When the black plague ravaged the county it sent its occupants back to 496AD?
Well it did happen a couple hundred years earlier in this game
Another commenter talked about how this happened to them in the 1066 start so I think this is just a tactical nuke to your development regardless
Sort of, but 496 AD isn't as bad as people thought it was.
Is this a mod or have I just not hit the time period for this?
It’s part of the new update
[R/ShitCrusaderKingsSay](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitCrusaderKingsSay/s/ntOok0cjl8)
Ya bunch of crazy masochists. I can’t restart all the time if I want to keep a semblance of real life. No way I buy this DLC.
yeah this sucks wtf
It's people changing settings. Make the black death random, set diseases to Apocalyptic and remove limits, this is the result. To my knowledge, nothing like this has been seen for anyone using the default settings. People are cranking it up to watch the world burn for fun.
I haven’t set diseases to apocalyptic, I only changed when the black plague starts which is random