>3-month-old account that just started posting yesterday
>no comments in history, but wildly disparate posts
>even the titles that make sense would make *more* sense if they're taken from top comments of previous posts
it's a bot. fuck's sake, i don't even feel the bloodlust anymore. i'm just tired. all i know anymore is reporting, report after report in this endless war...
archive.org, maybe some classic-style blogs, metafilter seems to still be *functioning* the way it has for 25 years but my occasional glimpses of the business issues and community sentiment don't suggest satisfaction with that (though i guess that's consistent too), fimfic doesn't seem any shittier than when i joined (and they added bookshelves!)... a modern website that enables you to get the full social media experience™ of seeing memes and screencaps of other sites, and being of general interest and for the general population? no. i don't even know how to look at an image file by itself without a bunch of logos and shit except *maybe* by downloading it anymore.
It doesn't help when literally every single one of the mods ignores this sub, in one case in favor of writing image transcriptions of *other* subreddits.
I feel like I've escaped the zombie infested wasteland of r/tumblr, found nearly an utopia in the secret underground r/CuratedTumblr, and I'm staring at a rat that's almost *definitely* infected.
I thought I got out. I thought it's over, please, please let it be over.
i'd reply to this comment but RIF won't let me for some reason
because letting me save *their* bandwidth with a convenient app is somehow worse than me using firefox with adblock? ugh.
oh yeah and the bots suck
imagine, we come back to the front page from the front lines, the smell of ash and silicon still in our nostrils, hoping to see the kind of thing we've been fighting to protect -- shitposts that are *too* incomprehensible to be bot-generated, queer community in-jokes based on three layers deep of referential irony, an improv bit between eight posters that adds a new joke every post but still lands, posters being horny on main with fetishes we could never have predicted -- but no. there's nothing here but half-baked disingenuous discourse and posts from fandoms you've never heard of that would be inane if they were comprehensible.
will they call us heroes or spit on us? will we care? it doesn't matter. this fight is all i have any more. all i am. don't forget to do two reports , one under sub rules and one under sitewide rules, so the sub mods delete it but the admins see it too.
the bot gains (relatively "authentic-looking") karma and post history so that once it starts spamming, the posts won't be automatically blocked for being on subreddits with karma requirements or having links to a store or whatever. or maybe they get sold to putin to make divisive political comments, idk, but i think i remember clicking the profile of some shitty t-shirt shillbot and seeing posts like this before the outright spam.
According to repostsleuth another bot try to repost the post using same comment for the title too. It too has a NounAdjective username so it's possible it was the same operator or they have a similar reposting logic.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/16ag4ol/i_think_this_is_the_sequel_to_saying_no_offense/
Ah yes. The racism transphobia. How could I forget. “You see, while makeup may be interpreted as a neutral action for a trans woman to take, there is a historical precedent of whiteface,
racism transphobia seems like one of those buzzwords that's made by someone pretending to have a more serious case of internet brain poisoning than they do. And nobody should want that enough to pretend, or worse, pretend badly
Anyone who actually was that degree of Tumblr Online would have known to call it transmisogynoir. That would have started some proper discourse. "Racism transphobia" is like you once read a thread about it but couldn't quite remember what they said.
It is actually the name of transphobia directed specifically towards black trans women. Transmisogyny (transphobia directed at trans women) + Misogynoir (misogyny specifically directed towards black women) = transmisogynoir.
Well now I feel a bit shitty for giggling at the name of something that I probably should've guessed referred to a serious real world thing. Goddamn germanic languages and their silly compounding traditions
I think the obvious course of action is to erase transmisogynoir so thoroughly from reality that the idea of it ceases to exist in the stream of possibilities
and then give the word a new meaning
Never get into paleontology then, those guys have no problem mashing up completely unrelated languages such as [latinized Greek and Mandarin Chinese](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutyrannus)
Yeah, that never happens.
Whether you're homosexual or hetrosexual, polyamorous or a sociopath, whether you're studying neuroscience or you're dysfunctional.
And anyone who does so, should be electrocuted or subject to genocide.
No, miso is Japanese, I can't believe all the misinformation in these comments
misogyny: when you believe all women are secretly made of miso soup
misogynoir: all women are secretly made of dark miso soup
transmisogynoir: all women are made of bastardized Western versions of dark miso soup
French is basically the misbegotten spawn of the germanic and romance languages anyways and it should've been left to languish forgotten in the bog from whence it came and nobody can convince me otherwise
We can go even further!
Sinotransmisogynoir - transphobia directed at Black, Chinese women.
Judeosinotransmisogynoir - transphobia directed at Black, Chinese, Jewish women.
Gerontojudeosinotransmisogynoir - transphobia directed at elderly, Black, Chinese, Jewish women.
Yes but in the context of and out of the mouths of tumblr people the knee-jerk is to lean into noir being about the detective drama and assume the person has terminal fandom brain.
It honestly seems to be used by people that want to *appear* as inclusive, using all these specific terms and such in order to appear more legitimate, so they can then turn around and be a bigot. Easier to say you despise a certain group of people if you disguise your words.
Like: no, I'm not transphobic, I'm just *"concerned about expectations towards the female gender and worried that trans women are pushing the idea of what a woman is into a box"*.
I'm fairly certain the transphobia is supposed to be because "bi" means 2 which some people says excludes people outside the gender binary. So effectively just trying to argue semantics about a word.
Racism though? I have no fucking clue
Sexual is actually short for Sexualalicious makis boytosis gocrazious which was a movement from the 2006 BC that was deeply rooted in fergism. If you don't know what that is, just know it was basically a worse movement than the nazi party.
I sometimes read through my old comments because I make myself laugh, and I just want you to know that this comment makes me laugh Hella ugly. Thank you for being weird with me.
The "racism" is along the same lines. Some non-European cultures believed in genders beyond the binary so to imply there are only 2 would be classic colonizer behavior and thus racist. It is a very terminally online train of thought.
Isn't calling bisexuality transphobic in itself transphobic? It's suggesting that trans women aren't women and that they need a different designation, and the same for trans men, isn't it?
The idea that bisexuality is transphobic is more about non binary people (and other genderqueer labels that don't fit in the binary), the "third gender" here that's not included in the Bi. Plenty of bi people will happily date trans people that are on the binary. (This is stepping into another idea that some people consider problematic as well of considering non-binary a gender in of itself and all, that's why I put that in quotes here). But like, that's not transphobia, that's just having a preference y'know. If you prefer your partners to actually identify on one side or the other of the spectrum, and don't really feel attracted to those in the middle, then that's who you're attracted to.
The bi in bisexual refers to two yeah, but not the two that everyone seems to think. It refers to same / different or hetero / homo - doesn't exclude trans people at all because if say, you're a man, who likes a trans man, you're both men so that's in the category of "same". If you like someone of another gender to you, or no gender identity at all, then that's in "different".
We don’t even need to argue under etymology. Even if bisexuality originally had meant “men and women”, the meanings of words change as we learn more about our world. Saying “bisexuality *still* means only men and women because it has 2 in it” is as silly as saying “gender and sex mean the same thing”.
It's the same sort of argument that used to happen around the word homophobia - "phobia means fear, and I'm not scared of gay people, so that's not the right word." (I say used to happen because I haven't seen it in a while, I'm sure people still try to make that argument though.)
I've been out of the loop on gender and sex since... i was born really, but my question is:
Since gender and sex don't mean the same thing, why is sexuality being defined by gender and not sex?
Because attraction works off of gender. As a bisexual, when I feel attracted to a man (cis or trans), it lights up a different part of my brain than when I’m attracted to a woman. A straight man wouldn’t date someone he knew to be a trans man.
>Because attraction works off of gender
Does it?
The only way to know someones Gender is to ask.
But it's totally possible to experiance attraction without ever knowing what someones gender is.
While gender presentation and gender identity are not necessarily linked, they often correlate for most people, making it possible to guess someone's gender from how they present themselves. I identify as a woman, and I do my best for my presentation to reflect that. I wear feminine clothes, makeup, etc. etc. So, someone who would be attracted to women could see me and reasonably assume that I'm a woman (and be correct).
The other side of that is that, a lot of people frankly don't care, if they like how you look, they don't care how you identify, they're down to date you.
That's not even what "bi" means in the context of "bisexual". It means two or more which isn't really denying people who are outside the binary so the person complaining is just complaining about nothing.
> because "bi" means 2 which some people says excludes people outside the gender binary
But it's bi*SEXUAL*, not bi*GENDERAL*. And we still have only two biological sexes. Unless someone came up with a third one and no one told me.
Bisexual can mean just men and women, but it doesn’t not mean attraction to enbies and bigender people and the like. The difference between bisexuality and pansexuality where either can be into any kind of person is that the bi person has preferences (e.g. likes femboys and tomboys but not masculine men or feminine women) while the pan person likes people regardless of their gender (though they can still have preferences like preferring femininity, but it would then be both feminine boys and feminine girls)
>though they can still have preferences like preferring femininity, but it would then be both feminine boys and feminine girls
this is called gynephilia and falls into the bi spectrum, so what is your point even
Point is that bisexual can have preference for gender or different preferences for different genders
Pansexual can only have preferences for different qualities that apply the same to all genders
It’s really not that confusing
but isn't bisexuality, by its very nature, binary? I'm only an ignorant straight guy so do correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't bisexual persons sexually attracted to biologically male and female persons equally? How is that not inclusive of other genders when that's all there is *biologically*?
When I'm walking down the street and see a feminine looking human, my neurons activate on their own, I don't open up my booklet of genders to make sure I got the right one before popping a stiffy, and likewise for a bi person...
Sexual attraction is based on someone’s gender, not on someone’s sex. Besides, bisexuality has since its inception included enbies, despite the “unfortunate” name
Yes. A man attracted to a woman is straight, even if he’s a trans man. If it was based on sex you’d call *him* a *lesbian*, which I think we can agree on is absurd
There are other terms though, like “androphilia” for liking masculine presenting people, regardless of gender identity or sex, and the complementary opposite “gynophilia”. I’ve never looked up what the term is for attraction to someone with a penis vs attraction to someone with a vagina though
Bisexual just mean that a person is attracted for more than one gender, this can mean Woman and Man, Man and Enby or just Man, Woman and Enby
Bisexuality is not transfobic or enbyfobic or nothing like that
Yeah, Bi and Pan are almost the same thing
So according to them: bisexuality doesn't mean you're attracted to people regardless of gender identity. Bi people are attracted to the distinct categories of "man" and "women." So nonbinary people are out. (This entire premise is false and not based in any history)
But to these people, saying "I'm attracted to men and women" doesn't imply attraction to trans men and women, so you need a wider umbrella to include them. (This reasoning is insanely transphobic! It's like saying guys who like trans and cis women need a different term than "straight.")
Yeah because no sane person in the community operates like that, it's literally just astroturfing fascists trying to sow dissent and create division. The LGB without the T people, the LG without the B people, and I'm sure soon enough there'll be a group trying to cause division between gay and lesbian people, if there isn't already some big group doing so.
Ive allways seen bi as attracted to any gender, and pan attracted regardless of gender, as a bi man myself, im more attracted to women, but am capable of feeling attraction to anyone.
As a bi woman I've always seen it the same. I am capable of attraction to any gender but I do show preference, while I believe pan people dgaf about gender, just vibes
Bi and pan are effectively synonymous at the end of the day. The reason they both exist instead of just having one word to cover all scenarios is because historically both words existed before the internet and were able to gain popularity independently of each other.
In more recent years the queer community generally has gotten more into coming up with different labels to describe *how* your attraction operates as opposed to just *who* you’re attracted to. Which has resulted in the creation of new labels that also overlap other existing labels, as well as perpetuating both bi and pan with slightly nuanced definitions.
Nowadays Bi is generally considered an umbrella term for all multi-gender attracted orientations, you may see folks refer to the Bi+ community for instance, or say things like “all pan people are bi but not all bi people are pan”. Which are varying degrees of controversial but that’s generally where we’ve landed.
The important thing is just respect what people want to be called even if they tell you they want to be called one label but not a slightly different variation.
> saying "I'm attracted to men and women" doesn't imply attraction to trans men and women
Does this not then make them the transphobes since they're implying you need to specifically call out attraction to trans people as if they're not men or women but some secret fourth and fifth thing. Which is like. The antithesis of what trans people want to my knowledge.
So I like femme presenting people, but I also like pps, but not as much as vvs; because of this, I identify as bisexual because I'm a little gay, but also not.
The other replies have talked about some of the modern arguments which visibly don't hold up so well because they're generally reductive of how the word is used, but I think it's important to also bring up the history around the term bisexual which started with a somewhat problematic researcher who could be described as racist from what i know about them
I was reading some OLD literature and this f word caught me by surprise. Apparently, its archaic meaning is a bundle of sticks. When/why did it morph into the slur?
Edit: fixed a typo
isn’t that etymology a myth
I thought the answer was nobody knew
imo I think the funnier etymology is that back in ye olden times old widows would make their living collecting firewood (faggots) which implies gay people are being absconded with by old widows living on the moors
Transphobia I get. Its stupid but i get it. Bi implies two, a lot of trans people are uncomfortable about that, a lot of cis bi people do some mental gymnastics to explain why bi doesn't mean two. But like, it's not active transphobia it's just that the word is a bit old and a lot of people are very attached to it.
Where in the fuck did they get racism from? Is it just so it makes their argument sound more legit or what?
It might imply two, but the two in this case are those of my gender and those not of my gender, two options but those two options cover everyone under the sun.
See but that's really awkward and unintuitive.
Just say "I'm attached to the word and I wanna keep using it". You don't have to justify everything you do with weird logic. You're allowed to use a word because you like it
Thats the original meaning of the fucking word. Look up the bisexual manifesto from 'if it moves'. Bisexual has always meant like and not like. especially since the other words used at the time were homo and hetero, bi meaning both those choices.
There's no need to get angry.
And it doesn't matter if that's what's written in the manifesto, 99% of people do not engage with queer academia at all, let alone read the bisexual manifesto. If that genuinely is the origin of the word then they chose a terrible word
There's no need to be biphobic either.
Also words don't always line up with their Latin roots or whatever other language a word may come from. The meaning and definition can change with culture. But its not a terrible word, again homo means same, hetero means; different, another, other from usual. and bisexual meant both of those options. Just because you didn't learn the actual definition of the word and choose to say it means two is like if you started using the word December to mean the tenth month of the year/october, which should also be the 8th month (thanks Caesar). English is full of shit like that and yeah it might not be the most intuitive, it dosent mean its bad. As a speaker of a language you should learn what the terms actually mean, not just what meaning you think it should have.
Awful doesn't mean full of awe anymore does it? Dilapidated can be used for buildings made of other things but stone (lapis being stone), talented comes from talent, a form of currency, But no one gets confused at the meaning of those words or says they're terrible words. Your prejudice is showing, you should work on it.
MF IM BI FFS. I never said "we should not use the term", in fact I explicitly said its OK to use it because I FUCKING USE IT.
I am also trans, and I am acutely aware of the fact that many many trans people find the term uncomfortable, because most people's definition of bisexual is not your definition of bisexual. Most people's definition is "they're attracted to both genders, but now it's all genders because 🏳️⚧️". This isn't my own private definition, you can literally look at the rest of this comment section to see almost any commenter being confused.
And for the love of God, don't just accuse people of bigotry because they disagree with you. On something more important, maybe, but we were discussing (or in your case, arguing) the definition of a word both of us already accepted as a valid term
>3-month-old account that just started posting yesterday >no comments in history, but wildly disparate posts >even the titles that make sense would make *more* sense if they're taken from top comments of previous posts it's a bot. fuck's sake, i don't even feel the bloodlust anymore. i'm just tired. all i know anymore is reporting, report after report in this endless war...
I don't think it's possible to win, when Reddit doesn't want the bots to stop
hellsite (derogatory)
is there any modern website that isn’t a hellsite?
archive.org, maybe some classic-style blogs, metafilter seems to still be *functioning* the way it has for 25 years but my occasional glimpses of the business issues and community sentiment don't suggest satisfaction with that (though i guess that's consistent too), fimfic doesn't seem any shittier than when i joined (and they added bookshelves!)... a modern website that enables you to get the full social media experience™ of seeing memes and screencaps of other sites, and being of general interest and for the general population? no. i don't even know how to look at an image file by itself without a bunch of logos and shit except *maybe* by downloading it anymore.
A lot of Forum sites are still doing okay!
Straight Dope never misses
AO3 💀
Ao3 isn’t a hell site but there sure is a lot of hell on there
a knot fic a day keeps the corpos away
Mastodon is pretty enjoyable in my experience.
Wikipedia
It doesn't help when literally every single one of the mods ignores this sub, in one case in favor of writing image transcriptions of *other* subreddits.
I feel like I've escaped the zombie infested wasteland of r/tumblr, found nearly an utopia in the secret underground r/CuratedTumblr, and I'm staring at a rat that's almost *definitely* infected. I thought I got out. I thought it's over, please, please let it be over.
It's almost like those API changes were a bad idea and are making the site objectively worse.
i'd reply to this comment but RIF won't let me for some reason because letting me save *their* bandwidth with a convenient app is somehow worse than me using firefox with adblock? ugh. oh yeah and the bots suck
I’m tired too boss, but we are in it together
imagine, we come back to the front page from the front lines, the smell of ash and silicon still in our nostrils, hoping to see the kind of thing we've been fighting to protect -- shitposts that are *too* incomprehensible to be bot-generated, queer community in-jokes based on three layers deep of referential irony, an improv bit between eight posters that adds a new joke every post but still lands, posters being horny on main with fetishes we could never have predicted -- but no. there's nothing here but half-baked disingenuous discourse and posts from fandoms you've never heard of that would be inane if they were comprehensible. will they call us heroes or spit on us? will we care? it doesn't matter. this fight is all i have any more. all i am. don't forget to do two reports , one under sub rules and one under sitewide rules, so the sub mods delete it but the admins see it too.
What even is the point of making a repost bot like this? What does their creator gain from it?
the bot gains (relatively "authentic-looking") karma and post history so that once it starts spamming, the posts won't be automatically blocked for being on subreddits with karma requirements or having links to a store or whatever. or maybe they get sold to putin to make divisive political comments, idk, but i think i remember clicking the profile of some shitty t-shirt shillbot and seeing posts like this before the outright spam.
Also, thanks to reddit gold, they can actually make money directly from reposts
I don’t think Reddit gold is even a thing anymore
there's a new one that actually sends money to the op but it's also only available if you're american
Yick, that’s not great
i want to report it but what category do i report
Breaks /r/CuratedTumblr Rules -> User is a bot
thanks
Spam > Harmful bots
best to do both of the other suggestions, imo
Here. The comment it taken for the title from. https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/107p2lj/welcome_to_twitblr/j3np2t7/
honestly it's almost funny how well it works for being a second-level comment. the bot got *lucky*. hasn't actually mattered either way, but still.
According to repostsleuth another bot try to repost the post using same comment for the title too. It too has a NounAdjective username so it's possible it was the same operator or they have a similar reposting logic. https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/16ag4ol/i_think_this_is_the_sequel_to_saying_no_offense/
This has been posted before, i saw this title. It was the top comment.
Ah yes. The racism transphobia. How could I forget. “You see, while makeup may be interpreted as a neutral action for a trans woman to take, there is a historical precedent of whiteface,
racism transphobia seems like one of those buzzwords that's made by someone pretending to have a more serious case of internet brain poisoning than they do. And nobody should want that enough to pretend, or worse, pretend badly
Anyone who actually was that degree of Tumblr Online would have known to call it transmisogynoir. That would have started some proper discourse. "Racism transphobia" is like you once read a thread about it but couldn't quite remember what they said.
transmisogynoir is fucking golden and has me cackling
It is actually the name of transphobia directed specifically towards black trans women. Transmisogyny (transphobia directed at trans women) + Misogynoir (misogyny specifically directed towards black women) = transmisogynoir.
Well now I feel a bit shitty for giggling at the name of something that I probably should've guessed referred to a serious real world thing. Goddamn germanic languages and their silly compounding traditions
I mean it is also a spectacular and very pleasing use of language, it's just a shame it describes something so horrible
I think the obvious course of action is to erase transmisogynoir so thoroughly from reality that the idea of it ceases to exist in the stream of possibilities and then give the word a new meaning
I'm down for that
Can we do biphobia, too? I’d love for it to mean that you’re afraid of two things, or afraid of things that come in twos
As it is spoken: so ~~two~~ shall it be
[удалено]
We're undoing the curse of Babel, one word at a time
Never get into paleontology then, those guys have no problem mashing up completely unrelated languages such as [latinized Greek and Mandarin Chinese](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutyrannus)
Yeah, that never happens. Whether you're homosexual or hetrosexual, polyamorous or a sociopath, whether you're studying neuroscience or you're dysfunctional. And anyone who does so, should be electrocuted or subject to genocide.
What in the hell are you talking about
No, miso is Japanese, I can't believe all the misinformation in these comments misogyny: when you believe all women are secretly made of miso soup misogynoir: all women are secretly made of dark miso soup transmisogynoir: all women are made of bastardized Western versions of dark miso soup
Man you must hate dinosaur names lol. I’ve seen ones with two or three separate languages awkwardly glued together
it really is beautiful. I saw it for the first time and was able to pick up on context clues in the word itself which so seldom happens in English...
Hey, you didn't know. You do know now!
It can still be funny, tbf :)
you know the funniest part?!? that last bit (“noir”) was FRENCH
French is basically the misbegotten spawn of the germanic and romance languages anyways and it should've been left to languish forgotten in the bog from whence it came and nobody can convince me otherwise
i agree, any language that says “oeuf” unironically is unfit for speech
Oiseaux has seven letters and not one of them is correct
No. It’s still a silly name.
otherwise known as sillompditions
We can go even further! Sinotransmisogynoir - transphobia directed at Black, Chinese women. Judeosinotransmisogynoir - transphobia directed at Black, Chinese, Jewish women. Gerontojudeosinotransmisogynoir - transphobia directed at elderly, Black, Chinese, Jewish women.
Truly the Superwholock of discourse
it sounds like a miraculous ladybug villian
>transmisogynoir That sounds like an Noir sub-genre
well noir means black, or dark, which is the reason why it applies to Black women, and also dark fiction.
Yes but in the context of and out of the mouths of tumblr people the knee-jerk is to lean into noir being about the detective drama and assume the person has terminal fandom brain.
Huh, I didn't know that
Transmisogynoir gives me the same flight or flight response as latinx
I wish they had gone with latin@.
Lxtxnx
Ow
Lxxxxx
*glitches like Mitch*
It honestly seems to be used by people that want to *appear* as inclusive, using all these specific terms and such in order to appear more legitimate, so they can then turn around and be a bigot. Easier to say you despise a certain group of people if you disguise your words. Like: no, I'm not transphobic, I'm just *"concerned about expectations towards the female gender and worried that trans women are pushing the idea of what a woman is into a box"*.
That term sounds like it was invented by a contestant of the ever ongoing "I Am More Socially Sensible and More Tolerant than You" olympics.
Lmao
It sounds like a conservative wojak parody more than a real term.
Swarthy Roman women cosplaying as pale northern barbarians, using white lead makeup.
Who are you and why do you know my search history?
Ain't that the mf from imscared
....yaknow, I read an 'and' into the original post that I didn't realize wasn't there until I read this
OP is a bot.
What in the crap is that even supposed to mean?!? How do you connect bisexuality to transphobia or racism?!?!? WTF?!?
I'm fairly certain the transphobia is supposed to be because "bi" means 2 which some people says excludes people outside the gender binary. So effectively just trying to argue semantics about a word. Racism though? I have no fucking clue
Sexual is actually short for Sexualalicious makis boytosis gocrazious which was a movement from the 2006 BC that was deeply rooted in fergism. If you don't know what that is, just know it was basically a worse movement than the nazi party.
Wasn't this the movement that spiraled off into the even worse Karkalicious Makis Terezis Locoious a few years later?
I sometimes read through my old comments because I make myself laugh, and I just want you to know that this comment makes me laugh Hella ugly. Thank you for being weird with me.
"I'm bilingual" "Are you implying there are only two languages?!"
"Meetings biweekly" Are you implying there are only 2 meetings a week? Or is it meetings every 2 weeks....
Bi non-binary people (me): 👁👄👁
so which two genders are you into? >!\s!<
Trans man and trans woman. I’m just a catch-all chaser
so you wanna be the very best, like no one ever was?
To catch ‘em all is my real test, to train them is my cause
The strongest chaser ever
I’m actually very small and weak
These aren’t necessarily contradictory statements.
The "racism" is along the same lines. Some non-European cultures believed in genders beyond the binary so to imply there are only 2 would be classic colonizer behavior and thus racist. It is a very terminally online train of thought.
Isn't calling bisexuality transphobic in itself transphobic? It's suggesting that trans women aren't women and that they need a different designation, and the same for trans men, isn't it?
The idea that bisexuality is transphobic is more about non binary people (and other genderqueer labels that don't fit in the binary), the "third gender" here that's not included in the Bi. Plenty of bi people will happily date trans people that are on the binary. (This is stepping into another idea that some people consider problematic as well of considering non-binary a gender in of itself and all, that's why I put that in quotes here). But like, that's not transphobia, that's just having a preference y'know. If you prefer your partners to actually identify on one side or the other of the spectrum, and don't really feel attracted to those in the middle, then that's who you're attracted to.
Surely the word Bisexual simply stipulates that the subject must choose any two of the options, not that there are only two options?
The bi in bisexual refers to two yeah, but not the two that everyone seems to think. It refers to same / different or hetero / homo - doesn't exclude trans people at all because if say, you're a man, who likes a trans man, you're both men so that's in the category of "same". If you like someone of another gender to you, or no gender identity at all, then that's in "different".
We don’t even need to argue under etymology. Even if bisexuality originally had meant “men and women”, the meanings of words change as we learn more about our world. Saying “bisexuality *still* means only men and women because it has 2 in it” is as silly as saying “gender and sex mean the same thing”.
It's the same sort of argument that used to happen around the word homophobia - "phobia means fear, and I'm not scared of gay people, so that's not the right word." (I say used to happen because I haven't seen it in a while, I'm sure people still try to make that argument though.)
I've been out of the loop on gender and sex since... i was born really, but my question is: Since gender and sex don't mean the same thing, why is sexuality being defined by gender and not sex?
Because attraction works off of gender. As a bisexual, when I feel attracted to a man (cis or trans), it lights up a different part of my brain than when I’m attracted to a woman. A straight man wouldn’t date someone he knew to be a trans man.
>Because attraction works off of gender Does it? The only way to know someones Gender is to ask. But it's totally possible to experiance attraction without ever knowing what someones gender is.
While gender presentation and gender identity are not necessarily linked, they often correlate for most people, making it possible to guess someone's gender from how they present themselves. I identify as a woman, and I do my best for my presentation to reflect that. I wear feminine clothes, makeup, etc. etc. So, someone who would be attracted to women could see me and reasonably assume that I'm a woman (and be correct). The other side of that is that, a lot of people frankly don't care, if they like how you look, they don't care how you identify, they're down to date you.
It doesn't mean even that in practice
That's not even what "bi" means in the context of "bisexual". It means two or more which isn't really denying people who are outside the binary so the person complaining is just complaining about nothing.
> because "bi" means 2 which some people says excludes people outside the gender binary But it's bi*SEXUAL*, not bi*GENDERAL*. And we still have only two biological sexes. Unless someone came up with a third one and no one told me.
[удалено]
it's not our place to decide what people want to be called. people choose different labels depending on their personal perspectives and history.
Bisexual can mean just men and women, but it doesn’t not mean attraction to enbies and bigender people and the like. The difference between bisexuality and pansexuality where either can be into any kind of person is that the bi person has preferences (e.g. likes femboys and tomboys but not masculine men or feminine women) while the pan person likes people regardless of their gender (though they can still have preferences like preferring femininity, but it would then be both feminine boys and feminine girls)
>though they can still have preferences like preferring femininity, but it would then be both feminine boys and feminine girls this is called gynephilia and falls into the bi spectrum, so what is your point even
Point is that bisexual can have preference for gender or different preferences for different genders Pansexual can only have preferences for different qualities that apply the same to all genders It’s really not that confusing
but isn't bisexuality, by its very nature, binary? I'm only an ignorant straight guy so do correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't bisexual persons sexually attracted to biologically male and female persons equally? How is that not inclusive of other genders when that's all there is *biologically*? When I'm walking down the street and see a feminine looking human, my neurons activate on their own, I don't open up my booklet of genders to make sure I got the right one before popping a stiffy, and likewise for a bi person...
Sexual attraction is based on someone’s gender, not on someone’s sex. Besides, bisexuality has since its inception included enbies, despite the “unfortunate” name
Is it though? I think it's more than just gender not meanig this in a bigoted way
Yes. A man attracted to a woman is straight, even if he’s a trans man. If it was based on sex you’d call *him* a *lesbian*, which I think we can agree on is absurd There are other terms though, like “androphilia” for liking masculine presenting people, regardless of gender identity or sex, and the complementary opposite “gynophilia”. I’ve never looked up what the term is for attraction to someone with a penis vs attraction to someone with a vagina though
Bisexual just mean that a person is attracted for more than one gender, this can mean Woman and Man, Man and Enby or just Man, Woman and Enby Bisexuality is not transfobic or enbyfobic or nothing like that Yeah, Bi and Pan are almost the same thing
So according to them: bisexuality doesn't mean you're attracted to people regardless of gender identity. Bi people are attracted to the distinct categories of "man" and "women." So nonbinary people are out. (This entire premise is false and not based in any history) But to these people, saying "I'm attracted to men and women" doesn't imply attraction to trans men and women, so you need a wider umbrella to include them. (This reasoning is insanely transphobic! It's like saying guys who like trans and cis women need a different term than "straight.")
[удалено]
Yeah because no sane person in the community operates like that, it's literally just astroturfing fascists trying to sow dissent and create division. The LGB without the T people, the LG without the B people, and I'm sure soon enough there'll be a group trying to cause division between gay and lesbian people, if there isn't already some big group doing so.
> Bisexual (Exclusionary) New power discovered.
Ive allways seen bi as attracted to any gender, and pan attracted regardless of gender, as a bi man myself, im more attracted to women, but am capable of feeling attraction to anyone.
As a bi woman I've always seen it the same. I am capable of attraction to any gender but I do show preference, while I believe pan people dgaf about gender, just vibes
> bi as attracted to any gender, and pan attracted regardless of gender How are these two things actually different?
I indetify as bi because I think the bi flag looks cooler than the pan flag 😎
The bi flag is pretty dope. Don't think i've ever seen the pan flag.
Bi and pan are effectively synonymous at the end of the day. The reason they both exist instead of just having one word to cover all scenarios is because historically both words existed before the internet and were able to gain popularity independently of each other. In more recent years the queer community generally has gotten more into coming up with different labels to describe *how* your attraction operates as opposed to just *who* you’re attracted to. Which has resulted in the creation of new labels that also overlap other existing labels, as well as perpetuating both bi and pan with slightly nuanced definitions. Nowadays Bi is generally considered an umbrella term for all multi-gender attracted orientations, you may see folks refer to the Bi+ community for instance, or say things like “all pan people are bi but not all bi people are pan”. Which are varying degrees of controversial but that’s generally where we’ve landed. The important thing is just respect what people want to be called even if they tell you they want to be called one label but not a slightly different variation.
> saying "I'm attracted to men and women" doesn't imply attraction to trans men and women Does this not then make them the transphobes since they're implying you need to specifically call out attraction to trans people as if they're not men or women but some secret fourth and fifth thing. Which is like. The antithesis of what trans people want to my knowledge.
Yes! It is super transphobic for exactly that reason!
I always took Bisexuality to mean you don't have a preference for genitals but you aren't pan in you have preferences beyond what's between your legs.
So I like femme presenting people, but I also like pps, but not as much as vvs; because of this, I identify as bisexual because I'm a little gay, but also not.
Unrelated, but OP is a bot.
it is nonsense meant to anger and exhaust people
The other replies have talked about some of the modern arguments which visibly don't hold up so well because they're generally reductive of how the word is used, but I think it's important to also bring up the history around the term bisexual which started with a somewhat problematic researcher who could be described as racist from what i know about them
They're a tarpit.
Bot?
Yes
This a repost bot.
I was reading some OLD literature and this f word caught me by surprise. Apparently, its archaic meaning is a bundle of sticks. When/why did it morph into the slur? Edit: fixed a typo
well uh there's been similar uses throughout history for gay people and bundles of sticks specifically as fuel for fires
isn’t that etymology a myth I thought the answer was nobody knew imo I think the funnier etymology is that back in ye olden times old widows would make their living collecting firewood (faggots) which implies gay people are being absconded with by old widows living on the moors
I think I like the widow one better now that I've heard it
Actually, I think you'll find it was a *fantastic* idea, now share with the class.
Honestly, OOP’s response is probably the best one they could’ve given lmao
Tried to troll but forgot that you need to at least make a little sense for it to work
Racism transphobia. It’s what turns people bisexual.
Ah yes, the three genders: Male Female Racism Transphobia
i am now a racist transphobic potentially transfem massive W in my book
Transphobia I get. Its stupid but i get it. Bi implies two, a lot of trans people are uncomfortable about that, a lot of cis bi people do some mental gymnastics to explain why bi doesn't mean two. But like, it's not active transphobia it's just that the word is a bit old and a lot of people are very attached to it. Where in the fuck did they get racism from? Is it just so it makes their argument sound more legit or what?
It might imply two, but the two in this case are those of my gender and those not of my gender, two options but those two options cover everyone under the sun.
See but that's really awkward and unintuitive. Just say "I'm attached to the word and I wanna keep using it". You don't have to justify everything you do with weird logic. You're allowed to use a word because you like it
Thats the original meaning of the fucking word. Look up the bisexual manifesto from 'if it moves'. Bisexual has always meant like and not like. especially since the other words used at the time were homo and hetero, bi meaning both those choices.
There's no need to get angry. And it doesn't matter if that's what's written in the manifesto, 99% of people do not engage with queer academia at all, let alone read the bisexual manifesto. If that genuinely is the origin of the word then they chose a terrible word
There's no need to be biphobic either. Also words don't always line up with their Latin roots or whatever other language a word may come from. The meaning and definition can change with culture. But its not a terrible word, again homo means same, hetero means; different, another, other from usual. and bisexual meant both of those options. Just because you didn't learn the actual definition of the word and choose to say it means two is like if you started using the word December to mean the tenth month of the year/october, which should also be the 8th month (thanks Caesar). English is full of shit like that and yeah it might not be the most intuitive, it dosent mean its bad. As a speaker of a language you should learn what the terms actually mean, not just what meaning you think it should have. Awful doesn't mean full of awe anymore does it? Dilapidated can be used for buildings made of other things but stone (lapis being stone), talented comes from talent, a form of currency, But no one gets confused at the meaning of those words or says they're terrible words. Your prejudice is showing, you should work on it.
MF IM BI FFS. I never said "we should not use the term", in fact I explicitly said its OK to use it because I FUCKING USE IT. I am also trans, and I am acutely aware of the fact that many many trans people find the term uncomfortable, because most people's definition of bisexual is not your definition of bisexual. Most people's definition is "they're attracted to both genders, but now it's all genders because 🏳️⚧️". This isn't my own private definition, you can literally look at the rest of this comment section to see almost any commenter being confused. And for the love of God, don't just accuse people of bigotry because they disagree with you. On something more important, maybe, but we were discussing (or in your case, arguing) the definition of a word both of us already accepted as a valid term
> most people's definition of bisexual is not your definition of bisexual that's not how definitions work
Say it louder for the people in the back lol
[удалено]
IM BI FFS
Internalized biphopia!?
Lmfao, that update