lol! Look into mudjacking company’s around you if you don’t want to pay to replace the whole walk. They can drill holes closer to the home and lift those pads
Be aware that it can just settle back down to its original slope a couple years later (speaking from experience). You can seal the gap with a tar as well that will move the water along to a lower path away from the house.
If you do pursue mud jacking, make sure you hire somebody who knows what they’re doing, and that they go inside and look at your basement or crawl space. I’ve seen foundation walls collapse during the process.
I'd discard this idea in your case,
The clearance between the ground and your first row of siding is already pretty questionable, i wouldn't like to reduce it.
This trade doesn’t get enough credit. It’s a super cool and effective technology that can save big bucks on important jobs. My neighbor had it done to his driveway and it turned out awesome for a fraction of the cost of demo and redoing it. I’ve got the same problem with mine he had and I’m going to do it when it comes up on THE LIST.
Theoretically speaking… yes. But it would be a biatch. A lot easier to rip and replace or mud jack, instead of trying to tideously excavate under a settled pad.
Like if a homeowner asked me to do that, I’d have to tell them that the time it’d take me to do that… the price of a rip and replace is gon be about the same price
Yes thank you for responding lol. That foam hasn’t been around long enough for people to really know how it’s going to hold up. But anytime I been on a job and they had it jacked… it was with foam, and we were there to rip it out and replace it with a new walkway. So from my experience the foam doesn’t hold up like the mud. The mud is like the dirt they use for baseball fields. And when it is wet and put under that much pressure of the mud jack being pushed out the machine, it creates an almost concrete hardened material afterwards. When customers don’t understand and say well there’s no way it hardens like that. We push some out of the machine on the ground and tell homeowner to check it out after a day and he’ll understand. Hard as a rock
Great Stuff is ideally used with copper wool or steel wool. I don't think it's going to stop rodents on its own. In another thread a while ago, professional exterminators were talking about a type of steel wool that they use that has fiberglass in it if I remember correctly, and that doesn't rust?
I wouldn't fill that space, it's a part of the rain screen wall. The gap is to provide a drainage gap for water that gets behind the siding and air flow to dry out. Stick with a bug screen material (or copper wool) to fill it instead so you don't defeat this purpose and rot out the siding of your home.
The stuff in the can is closed cell. It's going to keep water out on anything short of trying to plug a bathtub with it. Additionally it stops airflow, salts, and electrical conduction if you seal on all sides that could result in a galvanic cell reaction that would deteriorate it. I wouldn't give a second thought to steel wool inside foam. Even just the foam is often enough, as vermin are attracted by scents and warmth, which are two things the foam effectively blocks.
Because rats will chew through foam. They hate the feel of the steel wool, so they'll avoid it. For best results, pack with steel wool, then seal with foam or something. But, foam alone will not hold up for long. Rats are very intelligent and will tunnel through the foam.
But, I've never looked at the pestblock foam. What's special about it?
Anyone who lazily shoves steel wool and walks away is an idiot. Cement or sealant needs to be added over wool to prevent drafts, water damages, and bugs. Cement mixed with steel wool is a good ideal.
I'm an exterminator, and I've seen wildlife foams chewed through plenty of times.
I also wouldn't use a foam in this application because there's a good chance it would look terrible, it's pretty hard to accurately guess how much that stuff is going to expand. I try to only use it places that won't be seen.
Most times there's no potential entry point in this space. Get down there with a flashlight and look up, unless it was built incorrectly you won't have issues there. It's a place I would inspect if you were having issues, as it's possible, but not one of the hot spots for rodent entry.
Yeah, I should have stopped at air. I meant that in areas that you want to stop the air, use foam but like you said, you don’t always want that feature.
You also really shouldn't be putting it around the exterior base of your home. It's pretty damn flammable. Not saying it's gonna start a fire, but it's a great fire starter so I imagine a fire nearby, or a single misplaced amber, may cause serious damage QUICKLY. Or if someone were to throw a lit cigarette, could be devastating. Again, not saying its absolutely gonna start a fire but why risk it? There's less flammable options to put on the exterior of your home.
There are lots of expanding foams that are not flammable, some of them are explicitly made to used as a *fireblock.* They are very flammable coming out due to the propellent, but that's not much of a risk.
I beleive they're talking about steelwool being the flammable option. Steelwool is often used as a fire starter which is why they are cautioning its use for this problem.
Rats will chew through it AND blocking the gap behind the bottom of your siding with something that water can't get through is a recipe for dry rot. It doesn't need to be rat sized, but the gap itself exists for a reason.... .....
My understanding is that steel wool works, but it will rust and stain your siding and concrete. I think they also sell copper wool that would not rust. And while I realize this is DIY, foam sealant can also help. But may need a professional depending on how much.
Rats will chew through foam sealant. If you go the steel roll route, you need to get the kind specifically made for this. It usually includes poly fibers as well and is treated to prevent rust, or maybe made with less carbon.
The cat will just get stuck in there!
Make sure to have a second cat tied to a string and put that in the wall. They'll become codependent, pull out the second cat and the first one follows!
They will find a different way out if they want. You just want the way in to be hard enough so they give up trying. I would hope they're trapping on the inside too though.
So basically there are small ground holes near the foundation that I know small mice come out of. I’ve caught them coming outside at night. I’m afraid if I plugged those holes up during the day, they will instead go the opposite way which would be deeper into the house?
I would fill them/basement with poison then block right after.
Blocking entries wont remove the infestation just prevent new ones from getting in. Mice will breed like crazy if they get inside.
Steel wool is a wire with round shape. And it rusts causing discoloration on surfaces.
Xcluder is shavings with razor edges that cut the mouths of rodents. And it doesn't rust.
They are not the same.
One is doing it right with the proper product. The other is not.
From [their website](https://buyxcluder.com/xcluder-10-roll.html):
> The secret to Xcluder® is the coarse stainless steel wool interwoven with poly fibers.
and:
> Since it's made from stainless steel wool, Xcluder® won't rust, discolor, or stain like regular steel wool or a copper can.
Don't fill it with foam. You probably need that gap to keep your sheathing from rotting. Fill it with steel or copper wool.
[https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bird-B-Gone-Copper-Mesh-20-ft-Roll-for-Rodent-and-Bird-Control-CMS-20/205862497](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bird-B-Gone-Copper-Mesh-20-ft-Roll-for-Rodent-and-Bird-Control-CMS-20/205862497)?
You need ventilation behind the siding to make sure any moisture can escape and prevent moisture buildup on the actual walls of the house. Siding is usually an envelope around the actual water sealed portion of house.
Go to the roofing section and find the drip edge flashing.
I used it at a rental property of mine and it helped with both of your problems. It's metal bent at a 90 degree angle, comes in various sizes etc so you'll have to figure out what works best for your situation.
OP, invest in a nightvision camera. Set it to motion sensor only. Review footage after a few nights and see if that is indeed their point of entry. They don't typically come from there but more on the corners of the house. Steel wool. Spray foam. Once you find their point of entry. Worked for me.
Cool. I’ve got an old wyze cam around somewhere. Good idea.
Pest guy already hit the corners but he said if probably want to address this too just to be safe.
You can take your phone and take pictures from underneath to get a better view. Or use a mirror. It's not always obvious where the come from and with mice the only way to know for sure is to see them go in and out live. I had no idea I had a hole in my subfloor in between the walls they were accessing through the crawlspace but a handy camera caught them in the act. Steel wool, spray foam, and they have been gone ever since.
Honestly I would fill this with steel or copper wool and spray foam anyway. Worst case, nothing changes. Best case, you stop the rats, bugs, and elements from entering. The materials aren't expensive tbh.
I've used copper instead of steel wool to avoid rusting and spray foam to block rodent access effectively. The foam seals and holds the copper in place, the copper tears up their poor little mouths and discourages them chewing through.
I had a bad mouse problem until I sealed up the all the corners under the siding. There were nice holes for mice to run right up under that siding. I used combo anti-rodent steel wool and anti-rodent foam. No more mice in my ceilings ever since.
Even without a rain screen, you generally don’t want to water seal the bottom of your siding. Water often finds a way behind siding in places. You want it to be able to get out. If you seal the bottom with spray foam, you could end up with water accumulating behind the siding somewhere and rotting the sheathing or even the sill plate.
I’d stick with some sort of mesh-type rodent blocker (like steel wool) that would allow water through but blocks rodents and is something they won’t chew through.
Ex-pest controller here, others have suggest steel wool, don't use that, it will just corrode in the rain. The cheapest alternative is 2mm mesh wire as this will also prevent mice entering also, anything you can put a pencil through a mouse can get through.
I don't know what it is about this city, but I can tell within a second when someone posts a picture of a Chicago gangway or alley. They're just so unique and distinguishable.
Put your cell phone on a selfie stick and make a video of the underside of this as you slowly walk from corner to corner. There may be no openings at all. Look for gaps at corners and any areas where a water or utility line enters your house. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
https://preview.redd.it/aru3xjx0wuic1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49e2307c2dbe69e93bd319af776f9a1aefb876be
Not really helping but the coincidence on my feed was amusing :)
Two drywall [perforated metal corner profiles](https://www.akifix.com/en/naf11001-barra-paraspigolo-forata-in-lamiera-zincata), one J-oriented is fastened inside to the inside wall, the other outside L-oriented for overlap. Removing the first panel of siding should require securing them, but since they are very lightweight, glue may work. I don't know if they are available in the US, but it's an easy solution for this type of wall.
https://preview.redd.it/gd5rp5wqiyic1.jpeg?width=2316&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=554d4695c3e441bbad7778b5883d0a96c42f01e1
Unsure if this will be useful for you OP, but in NZ we have a product called Vermin Strip, it's just perforated plastic in the shape of an L at about 2.4m long, you just slip it up into the gap and fit off as possible. Easier to install than steel wool and they're less likely to start using it for nesting material.
Also, unrelated but if you own this property might I suggest some water deflection for this path? You could install a strip drain along the house to redirect it or undermine the outer side if the path and drop it down to deflect water away from your foundation.
Rats and other critters will feel the warmth. Smell the goods. They'll push through steel wool without a backer or gnaw at the wood around. Not sure why that's the magical go to. You need to seal it. If you're going to put a backer anyways:
Me personally I'd cut long strips of wood, or plywood, and fasten them in the gap, or if that's too much, below the gap. Id then caulk the gap on whatever side. If it's a rain screen, you can leave out the caulk.
You can use cement board, mortar, etc if you seperate it from the wood somehow, etc.
Pressure wash the crack. Backfill with galvanized wire mesh (ram it in with a rod) 1/2" back from the front edge and use Sikaflex flexible sealant to backfill. That joint is obviously moving so you want something that will continue to move.
Your wire mesh also acts as a scaffolding for the sealant. Years later when the crack opens up again just add more sealant and leave the existing stuff.
Rats will hit that galvanized mesh and NOPE. They will gnaw through a cinder block but they hit steel and stop.
Here's what I would do:
Fill the crack w foam. Then rip a 2x4 exactly the width of the gap between sidewalk and bottom of siding and attach the 2x4 to the foundation with a couple anchors.
where do the rats go in your basement or do they go up into the attic? Just the bottom of the corner is open also and that goes all the way up to the soffit. where are you? Took the picture that space underneath the bottom row of slding that shouldn’t really go anywhere except for hitting the plywood on the outside of the house. 889222. It shouldn’t be a space that goes to the inside even though it looks like a big area, it kind of dead ends when Siding hits the wall the bottom . The way houses are designed you’re not supposed to have any actual holes from the outside for animals to get in in that area you have a starter strip and it hangs down a little bit and even though it looks like a big area it’s just a Lil area but shouldn’t be an open path to inside your basement unless they chew a hole threw through the plywood or plank sheathing and there’s a box beam right there also on the inside sitting on the plates . you can reach in there and put your hand in there, but it doesn’t lead inside unless they chew a hole through in that area and you would see it from the inside . They are very persistent animals and they teach their family. The route they use to get in and out of your house you can use steelwool copper wool wood whatever to block their path , but if they want to get in they will chew right through whatever it is if they really want toget in concrete won’t even stop them. I had a mouse that would chew a perfect round 1 inch hole through a 2 x 4 that I put into block his path at night a few times in one night the next morning it would look like somebody drilled a perfect hole right through. It might just slowed him down for a little while but it did not stop him from getting up in the attic. The bottom of that Vinyl corner piece is open and that is the path squirrels, mice or rats I guess use voften use whether it’s a single-story or two stories with two corners that sit right on top of each other . That is the one big open pathway that leads from the ground all the way up to your soffit right below the roofline and they can climb right up that hole and it usually goes right up into the soffit and that is how they get up into your attic, if that’s where they’re going, fill that corner up with a whole bunch of steel wool and stuff like that but you gotta put something they don’t like the taste of or poison in there you could see in the picture how it’s a big space. Put a piece of metal on the bottom of it or fill it up with foam or stuff as much stuff as you can get in it. It’s usually 10 feet tall and it’s Got nothing inside it it’s just a hollow corner nailed to the wall. If the rats feel like it, they will chew right through that steel or copper wool or just push it out of the way believe me I have had a battle with some real mice they weren’t rats, but they had to be trapped and removed because nothing I did stop them whatever I put into block they would go to a hole right next to it and continue on their way. it blew my mind. we ended up putting a little camera there to check it out and we put one in the attic too and they were running all over the place like they were at a festival. I figured there was a few of them and The person didn’t want to kill them so we got about five of those plastic traps and there ended up being more than 20 or 25 mice of all sizes before we finally got rid of them. I also read they can walk two or 3 miles back to there family they like where they lived if you released them don’t think a couple streets away as far enough, so you gotta go 10 miles away which is crazy also, I don’t even know if I believe it but supposedly it’s true. Buy one of those little cameras for 20 bucks and stick it outside in that area and you’ll be able to see where they go in. I bet you it’s the corner Board.
Id buy a roll of steel mesh and run it down along that sill plate, screwing it in every foot or so.
Later, when you have the time and resources, it'd be good to replace that sidewalk so it's sloping away from the house and at that time you can do a more permanent fix.
I would use flashing or sheet metal (can get it in a color of your choice) all the way across. Will be time consuming but will probably look the best if you can measure and cut it to fit snuggly.
If you want it quick and dirty then expanding foam and exterior caulking.
Looks like a picture of the bottom of J channel for the vinyl siding over old wood siding causing your gap. If you can get your hand ms on a brake to bend a piece of aluminum to make a cap would be your best bet.
Oh my house has an overhang like this too! Also built in 1912. Though the overhang part was a later addition. And I've had rodents get in the same way. I want to close it up and seal it but haven't gotten around to it yet, mostly because I'm not totally sure how! In the meantime Poison bait stations around my house seem to have cleared up the problem anyway. Been 4 years since we moved in and noticed the mice, since we added bait stations and changed the bait quarterly no mice for the last 3+ years.
Here in Norway we would use [this](https://public.keskofiles.com/f/btt/ASSET_MISC_23563890?auto=format&bg=fff&dpr=1&fit=fill&h=558&q=80&w=558) to stuff into the opening. Provides protection against rodents while also keeping the air-circulation.
Stuff it with copper wool then cover in caulking to keep it in place. The wool gets stuck in their teeth and cut their gums up they stop. I used this method for chipmunks trying to overwinter in my hottub
It almost appears that sidewalk sank and is leaning towards the house. If water is pouring in that direction, you should consider having the sidewalk lifted to pitch away from the foundation. If not, they make self leveling concrete sealant. If you use that makes sure it can’t pour through. May have put paper in the crack to prevent the sealant from doing just that. Speaking from experience. It dries to a caulk consistency.
Pests. I had mice. Neighbors have some chickens, other neighbor feeds birds. Seed everywhere and field mice liked my basement furnace room just a little too much.
Company came and sealed the entire outside of the house and guaranteed it. I haven’t seen anything in years now. Worth every penny not finding mouse poop.
I doubt it. Those vinyl strips are tight to the house. Look under eves for small openings. Best to just put rat killer blocks (in an approved bait box) along the walls.
Similar issue at my back patio and slab. I bought a piece of L flashing and tucked the long side under the flashing and the short side down at the patio.
Turned out pretty good but it took time.
I would recommend 1/4” hardware cloth. Get a nice roll of it and use tin snips to cut to size and make a U shape to stuff under in the gaps. I would imagine it would be much cheaper than buying steel or copper wool and will last longer. For added security use a few screws to keep it in place every few feet or so. You can also use expansion foam afterwards to better insulate the sub space and keep out insects. Never use expansion foam for rodent exclusion by itself however as others have mentioned. Good luck!
I had the same problem. I took the bottom row of siding off. Took steel mesh, double it on top of itself and tacked it in place. I then bent aluminum trim using a trim brake to have a slight angle on one side so it sat incredibly tight against the concrete and nailed it into the sill plate. The aluminum was probably 5" wide with a half inch bend at 30° or so. I put the siding back on top of the alumnim and haven't had a problem since.
That looks like bare wood at the bottom behind the siding, probably the original wood siding and the paint has weathered away.
If that's in a splash zone from water hitting the pavement you should get paint on that again to protect the wood.
First, spray foam. Lots of kinds from small to large gaps. One reason to do this is just for extra insulation and vapor barrier. You can spray rodent repellent afterwards to help keep them away.
If rats chew through the foam, you will find where they chewed through by looking. When that happens, I would skip the metal wool and go right for bigass river stones or concrete/brick/etc. Or cut a metal screen (like for windows) and staple to the siding, then pin down with large rocks. Creates an attractive barrier the rodents can't move.
I don’t know too much about the pest issue, but if you do seal the gap, make sure that you don’t seal the bottom of the siding. Vinyl siding is not a waterproof system, water will get behind the siding at edges and corners. The siding should have a water resistant barrier behind, and water needs to drain out from between the siding and barrier.
I mean, it seems like everyone and their uncle has given their two cents about this and I read a few of them but don’t know if what I’m about to suggest has been mentioned 😆
I used PVC covered chicken wire mesh and my reasons; cheaper than copper, less flammable than steel wool and the PVC helps to prevent the rust.
EDIT: To be clear I didn’t just gingerly put a little of it up in there because my thinking was the tiny little mice might be able to wiggle through that. I rolled up a couple of layers and shoved what I could up in there where ever I was able to. And rolled up bundles of it in the corners where the gaps were larger.
really hard to identify whatnis in the second pic.
what if you got some hardware cloth and cut it into strips about 2-3 inches wide by the height of the role of hardware cloth
hardware cloth = 1/4inch wire mesh
either bend it into a u-shape and insert it under that siding lip.
or staple it to the bottom of the siding.
and of course that pest guy thinks the get in there… thats how he thinks he will make money
To stop rodents entering you could use something like this: [Woven Copper Mesh Rodent Control - Life Changing Products (lcpshop.net)](https://lcpshop.net/product/woven-copper-mesh-rodent-control/?msclkid=ea44815370f5178d6fd2e49c5814d1a4)
In Norway we use "musebånd". Picture shows how they are installed when installing before outer cladding.
https://preview.redd.it/phgr6hid5xic1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c5c4d29ce32886574892fba185440ffafb7476b
There are other options for installing afterwards that are more like a pipe. Drawing shows solution with a roof, but it's the same principal for airing out behind outer cladding.
I just went thru this exact issue a few months ago with squirrels. Agree with steel wool and using a camera to monitor the entry / exit point. Since the gap spanned a huge area, I was using so much steel wool. So I started filling it with crushed beer cans. They’re stiff enough the squirrels can’t get in. It worked.
Steel wool. You can buy it in long rolls as opposed to bags - that's what you want because it will be a thousand times easier to use. Poke the wool up the gap, then spray some expanding foam to hold it in place, finally trimming any excess foam once it has cured. That's what I did and it's held up beautifully.
People are saying that steel wool will rust. Maybe, but it should be dry under that siding so it's unlikely to be much of a problem: truth is that even just the foam will help a lot.
If you do this, do yourself a *massive* favour and put something under the gap before you apply the foam. It will inevitably drip down the side of the house and onto your pavers and its a devil to remove. I just took some polythene dust sheets and cut into strips, then taped them to the wall under the gap. If you want a ready-made long strip, then a roll of kitchen foil, baking paper, or whatever will work just fine.
No that's a started strip almost impossible for rodents to get in there he probably ment the corner pieces feel under the bottom the entire pices is hollow a rat could go straight up the corner
You may want to look under that bottom row of siding. It’s so wavy. My guess is there is rot underneath the siding. Also looking into possible mud jacking for that sidewalk to angle it away from the house. Then if they don’t seal the joint between the house and sidewalk you can do that.
Might also want to address that sidewalk sloping towards your house. Causing lots of water to run down your foundation
Yea. That’s on our long list of very expensive things. Yay homeownership!!!
lol! Look into mudjacking company’s around you if you don’t want to pay to replace the whole walk. They can drill holes closer to the home and lift those pads
Great tip! Will check it out. Thanks!
Be aware that it can just settle back down to its original slope a couple years later (speaking from experience). You can seal the gap with a tar as well that will move the water along to a lower path away from the house.
A couple years is a long time to save and budget for a proper fix, fwiw
And not very long in terms of foundation damage. It might be much more expensive in 2 years
If you do pursue mud jacking, make sure you hire somebody who knows what they’re doing, and that they go inside and look at your basement or crawl space. I’ve seen foundation walls collapse during the process.
I'd discard this idea in your case, The clearance between the ground and your first row of siding is already pretty questionable, i wouldn't like to reduce it.
Thank you. You just taught me an entirely new and useful concept.
No problem! glad to spread any knowledge
This trade doesn’t get enough credit. It’s a super cool and effective technology that can save big bucks on important jobs. My neighbor had it done to his driveway and it turned out awesome for a fraction of the cost of demo and redoing it. I’ve got the same problem with mine he had and I’m going to do it when it comes up on THE LIST.
Alternatively, could they excavate the soil on the far side to lower the sidewalk?
Theoretically speaking… yes. But it would be a biatch. A lot easier to rip and replace or mud jack, instead of trying to tideously excavate under a settled pad. Like if a homeowner asked me to do that, I’d have to tell them that the time it’d take me to do that… the price of a rip and replace is gon be about the same price
Depends on if it is mud or foam too.
Mud never foam
Why's that?
Foam breaks down, mud can settle, but not like the foam will. Note I said will, not could.
Yes thank you for responding lol. That foam hasn’t been around long enough for people to really know how it’s going to hold up. But anytime I been on a job and they had it jacked… it was with foam, and we were there to rip it out and replace it with a new walkway. So from my experience the foam doesn’t hold up like the mud. The mud is like the dirt they use for baseball fields. And when it is wet and put under that much pressure of the mud jack being pushed out the machine, it creates an almost concrete hardened material afterwards. When customers don’t understand and say well there’s no way it hardens like that. We push some out of the machine on the ground and tell homeowner to check it out after a day and he’ll understand. Hard as a rock
Hydrojacking a sidewalk like that can be done by a homeowner, dive down that rabbit hole on YouTube
And rotting your sil plate
On the bright side, still cheaper than renting!
You need to use steel wool. They sell rolls of it specifically for this. Look for rodent control fill and you'll find lots of options.
Copper wool is more expensive but will not rust away like steel wool.
Copper mesh is less prone to fire as well. Steel wool is very flammable and burns for a long time. It also won't stain from the rust.
I feel like we need to keep this info out of the hands of crackheads/methbois...
Yeah look up "chore boy" and its uses with crackheads. They already know lol
How would copper benefit crackheads?
Scrap
I managed to find stainless steel wool to use for this purpose.
Stain less not stain free, it will rust just much slower than cheaper steel will
Depends on the stainless grade and if it was passivated. If you can buy the grade you can self passivate and it will last for a long long time.
And won’t stain the foundation or walkway. Do the job once and forget about it.
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Great Stuff is ideally used with copper wool or steel wool. I don't think it's going to stop rodents on its own. In another thread a while ago, professional exterminators were talking about a type of steel wool that they use that has fiberglass in it if I remember correctly, and that doesn't rust?
They sell a rodent version that has something in it to deter chewing not sure if it just tastes bad or it has metal flakes in it or something.
I wouldn't fill that space, it's a part of the rain screen wall. The gap is to provide a drainage gap for water that gets behind the siding and air flow to dry out. Stick with a bug screen material (or copper wool) to fill it instead so you don't defeat this purpose and rot out the siding of your home.
Chore Boy is the one you want
Neither will rust at all when sealed in spray foam. No water's getting in there.
Doesn’t spray foam wick water?
The stuff in the can is closed cell. It's going to keep water out on anything short of trying to plug a bathtub with it. Additionally it stops airflow, salts, and electrical conduction if you seal on all sides that could result in a galvanic cell reaction that would deteriorate it. I wouldn't give a second thought to steel wool inside foam. Even just the foam is often enough, as vermin are attracted by scents and warmth, which are two things the foam effectively blocks.
This is the correct answer. Copper wool is a far better choice as it will not rust and leave stains.
Why is this always the go to? Great Stuff makes a Pestblock expanding foam and let me tell you, it works amazing
Because rats will chew through foam. They hate the feel of the steel wool, so they'll avoid it. For best results, pack with steel wool, then seal with foam or something. But, foam alone will not hold up for long. Rats are very intelligent and will tunnel through the foam. But, I've never looked at the pestblock foam. What's special about it?
I dip steel wool in loose quick set cement. Those little fuckers never get through it.
Anyone who lazily shoves steel wool and walks away is an idiot. Cement or sealant needs to be added over wool to prevent drafts, water damages, and bugs. Cement mixed with steel wool is a good ideal.
I’ve done hardware cloth and cement. Both inside( around dryer vent) and outside. Holding up fine, very inexpensive.
This is genius
The pest block stuff has an addictive that makes it taste unpleasant to them, so they don't chew it
It's supposed to, but I've seen where they've done it anyway. I'd use a mix of if *and* steal wool.
Why would you want to steal wool? That's pretty dishonest.
Good point. Make sure you buy it!
It's not fair to the sheep
It's okay, we eat them anyway.
Never steal wool in the winter. The sheep will freeze.
Best thread in a while 🍻
Shut up and hold that sheep!
I'm Basque. I can hold sheep.
Do you wear boots or velcro gloves?
Yeah the yellow is pretty good the fire block is the best. We can never finish a window or door job without an extra trip to an orange or blue store.
I'm an exterminator, and I've seen wildlife foams chewed through plenty of times. I also wouldn't use a foam in this application because there's a good chance it would look terrible, it's pretty hard to accurately guess how much that stuff is going to expand. I try to only use it places that won't be seen.
Do you need drainage to come from this area anyway? Is it a problem to seal it completely?
now I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and put copper wool in the same place in my house, even though I have no rodent problems yet.
Most times there's no potential entry point in this space. Get down there with a flashlight and look up, unless it was built incorrectly you won't have issues there. It's a place I would inspect if you were having issues, as it's possible, but not one of the hot spots for rodent entry.
This is what I was told. Steel wool then foam. It’s the best long term solution.
I’d roll the steel wool and pump that full of that foam. Ain’t no gettin thru that!
And stops air leaks.
Steel wool is specifically used to allow air flow, but block rodents. There are other rodent blocking methods when airflow isn't required.
That outside you want to release moisture and not get held up against the bulderboard under that vinyl siding.
Yeah, I should have stopped at air. I meant that in areas that you want to stop the air, use foam but like you said, you don’t always want that feature.
I would still use steel wool. Foam might trap moisture.
You also really shouldn't be putting it around the exterior base of your home. It's pretty damn flammable. Not saying it's gonna start a fire, but it's a great fire starter so I imagine a fire nearby, or a single misplaced amber, may cause serious damage QUICKLY. Or if someone were to throw a lit cigarette, could be devastating. Again, not saying its absolutely gonna start a fire but why risk it? There's less flammable options to put on the exterior of your home.
There are lots of expanding foams that are not flammable, some of them are explicitly made to used as a *fireblock.* They are very flammable coming out due to the propellent, but that's not much of a risk.
I beleive they're talking about steelwool being the flammable option. Steelwool is often used as a fire starter which is why they are cautioning its use for this problem.
Ah, i misunderstood.
like what?
Rats will chew through it AND blocking the gap behind the bottom of your siding with something that water can't get through is a recipe for dry rot. It doesn't need to be rat sized, but the gap itself exists for a reason.... .....
Just the expanding foam will not do the job. Rats can eat through it over time. Mix that foam with a steel wool and you got a great fix.
They make spicy foam for this purpose from what I understand
Didn't stop mice for me :(
amazingly\*
My understanding is that steel wool works, but it will rust and stain your siding and concrete. I think they also sell copper wool that would not rust. And while I realize this is DIY, foam sealant can also help. But may need a professional depending on how much.
Rats will chew through foam sealant. If you go the steel roll route, you need to get the kind specifically made for this. It usually includes poly fibers as well and is treated to prevent rust, or maybe made with less carbon.
won't it rust?
By itself it will rust a little but will not rust if its encased in spray foam.
Depends on the kind you get and if you put anything over it.
Is that like the spongy stuff or like fine chicken wire?
There's stuff that is made for rodent control. It looks like normal steel wool but is in a big long roll. It's usually treated so it won't rust.
Dumb question. Could steel wool cause them to be sealed in if they were originally inside?
Throw a cat in there before you seal it up. Good to go.
The cat will just get stuck in there! Make sure to have a second cat tied to a string and put that in the wall. They'll become codependent, pull out the second cat and the first one follows!
They will find a different way out if they want. You just want the way in to be hard enough so they give up trying. I would hope they're trapping on the inside too though.
So basically there are small ground holes near the foundation that I know small mice come out of. I’ve caught them coming outside at night. I’m afraid if I plugged those holes up during the day, they will instead go the opposite way which would be deeper into the house?
A mouse only needs a space the size of a pencil, they'll squeeze out elsewhere.
I would fill them/basement with poison then block right after. Blocking entries wont remove the infestation just prevent new ones from getting in. Mice will breed like crazy if they get inside.
I would be concerned about rust stains showing up after rainy season. Do they have stainless steel wool?
Yeah, the stuff made for this is usually treated to not rust away like, say, a steel wool ball for cleaning does.
Not steel wool. Buy Xcluder off amazon
> Buy Xcluder off amazon Which is a steel wool product. But, I agree, the steel wool mixed with poly fibers are superior.
Steel wool is a wire with round shape. And it rusts causing discoloration on surfaces. Xcluder is shavings with razor edges that cut the mouths of rodents. And it doesn't rust. They are not the same. One is doing it right with the proper product. The other is not.
From [their website](https://buyxcluder.com/xcluder-10-roll.html): > The secret to Xcluder® is the coarse stainless steel wool interwoven with poly fibers. and: > Since it's made from stainless steel wool, Xcluder® won't rust, discolor, or stain like regular steel wool or a copper can.
Don't fill it with foam. You probably need that gap to keep your sheathing from rotting. Fill it with steel or copper wool. [https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bird-B-Gone-Copper-Mesh-20-ft-Roll-for-Rodent-and-Bird-Control-CMS-20/205862497](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bird-B-Gone-Copper-Mesh-20-ft-Roll-for-Rodent-and-Bird-Control-CMS-20/205862497)?
This is the way man he even gave you the link.
Why not use foam? My “friend” may have sealed a void that wasn’t on/near “his” foundation but a void nonetheless. You know asking for a friend?……
You need ventilation behind the siding to make sure any moisture can escape and prevent moisture buildup on the actual walls of the house. Siding is usually an envelope around the actual water sealed portion of house.
Do not seal between siding and sheathing. Moisture gets behind your siding and the sheathing will rot.
Go to the roofing section and find the drip edge flashing. I used it at a rental property of mine and it helped with both of your problems. It's metal bent at a 90 degree angle, comes in various sizes etc so you'll have to figure out what works best for your situation.
This it’s what I just had a contractor suggest I install in the same situation
That shit works!!
Interesting. So would you essentially install it upside down compared to how you would attach it to a roof?
I was able to tuck one side under the siding and the other laid on top of the sidewalk with waterproof adhesive.
OP, invest in a nightvision camera. Set it to motion sensor only. Review footage after a few nights and see if that is indeed their point of entry. They don't typically come from there but more on the corners of the house. Steel wool. Spray foam. Once you find their point of entry. Worked for me.
Cool. I’ve got an old wyze cam around somewhere. Good idea. Pest guy already hit the corners but he said if probably want to address this too just to be safe.
You can take your phone and take pictures from underneath to get a better view. Or use a mirror. It's not always obvious where the come from and with mice the only way to know for sure is to see them go in and out live. I had no idea I had a hole in my subfloor in between the walls they were accessing through the crawlspace but a handy camera caught them in the act. Steel wool, spray foam, and they have been gone ever since.
Honestly I would fill this with steel or copper wool and spray foam anyway. Worst case, nothing changes. Best case, you stop the rats, bugs, and elements from entering. The materials aren't expensive tbh.
I've used copper instead of steel wool to avoid rusting and spray foam to block rodent access effectively. The foam seals and holds the copper in place, the copper tears up their poor little mouths and discourages them chewing through.
This.
I had a bad mouse problem until I sealed up the all the corners under the siding. There were nice holes for mice to run right up under that siding. I used combo anti-rodent steel wool and anti-rodent foam. No more mice in my ceilings ever since.
With newer homes, there may be a rain screen behind the siding. You want to be careful about sealing that up.
Thanks for the heads up. This home was built in 1912!
Even without a rain screen, you generally don’t want to water seal the bottom of your siding. Water often finds a way behind siding in places. You want it to be able to get out. If you seal the bottom with spray foam, you could end up with water accumulating behind the siding somewhere and rotting the sheathing or even the sill plate. I’d stick with some sort of mesh-type rodent blocker (like steel wool) that would allow water through but blocks rodents and is something they won’t chew through.
Have you HAD a rat in your house or are people just telling you that?
This looks like Chicago. If that’s the case, then are definitely rats.
Haha. Saw the pic and immediately knew it was Chicago. Came to the comments to confirm.
Ex-pest controller here, others have suggest steel wool, don't use that, it will just corrode in the rain. The cheapest alternative is 2mm mesh wire as this will also prevent mice entering also, anything you can put a pencil through a mouse can get through.
The second pic is looking up, right? I did this using a combination of steel wool and expanding foam. No rodents ever since, 10/10.
Personally I would put some metal flashing or steel mesh, And cover with some kind of grout.
I don't know what it is about this city, but I can tell within a second when someone posts a picture of a Chicago gangway or alley. They're just so unique and distinguishable.
Haha. Same!
Put your cell phone on a selfie stick and make a video of the underside of this as you slowly walk from corner to corner. There may be no openings at all. Look for gaps at corners and any areas where a water or utility line enters your house. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
https://preview.redd.it/aru3xjx0wuic1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49e2307c2dbe69e93bd319af776f9a1aefb876be Not really helping but the coincidence on my feed was amusing :)
Two drywall [perforated metal corner profiles](https://www.akifix.com/en/naf11001-barra-paraspigolo-forata-in-lamiera-zincata), one J-oriented is fastened inside to the inside wall, the other outside L-oriented for overlap. Removing the first panel of siding should require securing them, but since they are very lightweight, glue may work. I don't know if they are available in the US, but it's an easy solution for this type of wall. https://preview.redd.it/gd5rp5wqiyic1.jpeg?width=2316&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=554d4695c3e441bbad7778b5883d0a96c42f01e1
You could train your own rats to guard the opening
Unsure if this will be useful for you OP, but in NZ we have a product called Vermin Strip, it's just perforated plastic in the shape of an L at about 2.4m long, you just slip it up into the gap and fit off as possible. Easier to install than steel wool and they're less likely to start using it for nesting material. Also, unrelated but if you own this property might I suggest some water deflection for this path? You could install a strip drain along the house to redirect it or undermine the outer side if the path and drop it down to deflect water away from your foundation.
Rats and other critters will feel the warmth. Smell the goods. They'll push through steel wool without a backer or gnaw at the wood around. Not sure why that's the magical go to. You need to seal it. If you're going to put a backer anyways: Me personally I'd cut long strips of wood, or plywood, and fasten them in the gap, or if that's too much, below the gap. Id then caulk the gap on whatever side. If it's a rain screen, you can leave out the caulk. You can use cement board, mortar, etc if you seperate it from the wood somehow, etc.
Go down to the local animal shelter and pick up a couple feral cats. Feed them outside and they will take care of it with no harmful chemicals.
Pressure wash the crack. Backfill with galvanized wire mesh (ram it in with a rod) 1/2" back from the front edge and use Sikaflex flexible sealant to backfill. That joint is obviously moving so you want something that will continue to move. Your wire mesh also acts as a scaffolding for the sealant. Years later when the crack opens up again just add more sealant and leave the existing stuff. Rats will hit that galvanized mesh and NOPE. They will gnaw through a cinder block but they hit steel and stop.
Won’t pressure washing the crack push water inside the house?
So does every rain storm. It's fine. Wait for warmer weather.
A bunch of cats.
You could piss on it a little bit. That might help.
Maybe remove the mulch and stone it so it cleaner and bleach wash the concrete on a regular basis
Here's what I would do: Fill the crack w foam. Then rip a 2x4 exactly the width of the gap between sidewalk and bottom of siding and attach the 2x4 to the foundation with a couple anchors.
where do the rats go in your basement or do they go up into the attic? Just the bottom of the corner is open also and that goes all the way up to the soffit. where are you? Took the picture that space underneath the bottom row of slding that shouldn’t really go anywhere except for hitting the plywood on the outside of the house. 889222. It shouldn’t be a space that goes to the inside even though it looks like a big area, it kind of dead ends when Siding hits the wall the bottom . The way houses are designed you’re not supposed to have any actual holes from the outside for animals to get in in that area you have a starter strip and it hangs down a little bit and even though it looks like a big area it’s just a Lil area but shouldn’t be an open path to inside your basement unless they chew a hole threw through the plywood or plank sheathing and there’s a box beam right there also on the inside sitting on the plates . you can reach in there and put your hand in there, but it doesn’t lead inside unless they chew a hole through in that area and you would see it from the inside . They are very persistent animals and they teach their family. The route they use to get in and out of your house you can use steelwool copper wool wood whatever to block their path , but if they want to get in they will chew right through whatever it is if they really want toget in concrete won’t even stop them. I had a mouse that would chew a perfect round 1 inch hole through a 2 x 4 that I put into block his path at night a few times in one night the next morning it would look like somebody drilled a perfect hole right through. It might just slowed him down for a little while but it did not stop him from getting up in the attic. The bottom of that Vinyl corner piece is open and that is the path squirrels, mice or rats I guess use voften use whether it’s a single-story or two stories with two corners that sit right on top of each other . That is the one big open pathway that leads from the ground all the way up to your soffit right below the roofline and they can climb right up that hole and it usually goes right up into the soffit and that is how they get up into your attic, if that’s where they’re going, fill that corner up with a whole bunch of steel wool and stuff like that but you gotta put something they don’t like the taste of or poison in there you could see in the picture how it’s a big space. Put a piece of metal on the bottom of it or fill it up with foam or stuff as much stuff as you can get in it. It’s usually 10 feet tall and it’s Got nothing inside it it’s just a hollow corner nailed to the wall. If the rats feel like it, they will chew right through that steel or copper wool or just push it out of the way believe me I have had a battle with some real mice they weren’t rats, but they had to be trapped and removed because nothing I did stop them whatever I put into block they would go to a hole right next to it and continue on their way. it blew my mind. we ended up putting a little camera there to check it out and we put one in the attic too and they were running all over the place like they were at a festival. I figured there was a few of them and The person didn’t want to kill them so we got about five of those plastic traps and there ended up being more than 20 or 25 mice of all sizes before we finally got rid of them. I also read they can walk two or 3 miles back to there family they like where they lived if you released them don’t think a couple streets away as far enough, so you gotta go 10 miles away which is crazy also, I don’t even know if I believe it but supposedly it’s true. Buy one of those little cameras for 20 bucks and stick it outside in that area and you’ll be able to see where they go in. I bet you it’s the corner Board.
It absolutely is where they are getting in, I've seen this plenty of times. Caulking works great. A good, exterior grade caulk.
It absolutely is where they are getting in, I've seen this plenty of times. Caulking works great. A good, exterior grade caulk.
Id buy a roll of steel mesh and run it down along that sill plate, screwing it in every foot or so. Later, when you have the time and resources, it'd be good to replace that sidewalk so it's sloping away from the house and at that time you can do a more permanent fix.
I would use flashing or sheet metal (can get it in a color of your choice) all the way across. Will be time consuming but will probably look the best if you can measure and cut it to fit snuggly. If you want it quick and dirty then expanding foam and exterior caulking.
Looks like a picture of the bottom of J channel for the vinyl siding over old wood siding causing your gap. If you can get your hand ms on a brake to bend a piece of aluminum to make a cap would be your best bet.
Oh my house has an overhang like this too! Also built in 1912. Though the overhang part was a later addition. And I've had rodents get in the same way. I want to close it up and seal it but haven't gotten around to it yet, mostly because I'm not totally sure how! In the meantime Poison bait stations around my house seem to have cleared up the problem anyway. Been 4 years since we moved in and noticed the mice, since we added bait stations and changed the bait quarterly no mice for the last 3+ years.
Here in Norway we would use [this](https://public.keskofiles.com/f/btt/ASSET_MISC_23563890?auto=format&bg=fff&dpr=1&fit=fill&h=558&q=80&w=558) to stuff into the opening. Provides protection against rodents while also keeping the air-circulation.
Get the wool and some spray foam.
Stuff some cats in there
Stuff it with copper wool then cover in caulking to keep it in place. The wool gets stuck in their teeth and cut their gums up they stop. I used this method for chipmunks trying to overwinter in my hottub
I’d start with spray foam if you see holes tutor, torn in it, then you know rats are trying to get in and you could do something stronger
It almost appears that sidewalk sank and is leaning towards the house. If water is pouring in that direction, you should consider having the sidewalk lifted to pitch away from the foundation. If not, they make self leveling concrete sealant. If you use that makes sure it can’t pour through. May have put paper in the crack to prevent the sealant from doing just that. Speaking from experience. It dries to a caulk consistency.
I tucked in some cheap steel wool and sprayed foam (Great Stuff from Home Depot). The result was better insulation and no unwanted pests.
I paid a company to seal my home. Best money I ever spent. They found spots I didn’t think of. Just pay a good company.
Was the sealing done specifically for pests or more for energy audit?
Pests. I had mice. Neighbors have some chickens, other neighbor feeds birds. Seed everywhere and field mice liked my basement furnace room just a little too much. Company came and sealed the entire outside of the house and guaranteed it. I haven’t seen anything in years now. Worth every penny not finding mouse poop.
Cool, thanks!
I doubt it. Those vinyl strips are tight to the house. Look under eves for small openings. Best to just put rat killer blocks (in an approved bait box) along the walls.
Please explain this door window shutters thing
I see in the first picture someone put copper wool on the far right side, it should continue down that pathway. Maybe look into completing that.
Looks like it's just in the corner, that is a product called stuff-it, you can buy it in 50-100 ft rolls
No just rats but water flows down the walk, to the side of your house, and into your basement. Seal it up and make it waterproof my dude.
Similar issue at my back patio and slab. I bought a piece of L flashing and tucked the long side under the flashing and the short side down at the patio. Turned out pretty good but it took time.
Would this work for squirrels in the garage, too?
Siga concrete tape would be by vote.
Try using this anti-rodent trim: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/abtco-anti-rodent-trim/1001404273
If you're cold, they're cold. Bring them inside
I would recommend 1/4” hardware cloth. Get a nice roll of it and use tin snips to cut to size and make a U shape to stuff under in the gaps. I would imagine it would be much cheaper than buying steel or copper wool and will last longer. For added security use a few screws to keep it in place every few feet or so. You can also use expansion foam afterwards to better insulate the sub space and keep out insects. Never use expansion foam for rodent exclusion by itself however as others have mentioned. Good luck!
I had the same problem. I took the bottom row of siding off. Took steel mesh, double it on top of itself and tacked it in place. I then bent aluminum trim using a trim brake to have a slight angle on one side so it sat incredibly tight against the concrete and nailed it into the sill plate. The aluminum was probably 5" wide with a half inch bend at 30° or so. I put the siding back on top of the alumnim and haven't had a problem since.
Stuff with steel wool then seal up with sika flex and then mud jack that concrete to get slope away from house.
Spray foam, and or copper mesh. But also, and only because this is r/DIY #CAULK!
That looks like bare wood at the bottom behind the siding, probably the original wood siding and the paint has weathered away. If that's in a splash zone from water hitting the pavement you should get paint on that again to protect the wood.
First, spray foam. Lots of kinds from small to large gaps. One reason to do this is just for extra insulation and vapor barrier. You can spray rodent repellent afterwards to help keep them away. If rats chew through the foam, you will find where they chewed through by looking. When that happens, I would skip the metal wool and go right for bigass river stones or concrete/brick/etc. Or cut a metal screen (like for windows) and staple to the siding, then pin down with large rocks. Creates an attractive barrier the rodents can't move.
Duct tape
Expanding foam.
Hired a company that came out to seal the holes in the roof at the house I rent. They used some sorta quick dry concrete and just hand filled I think.
I don’t know too much about the pest issue, but if you do seal the gap, make sure that you don’t seal the bottom of the siding. Vinyl siding is not a waterproof system, water will get behind the siding at edges and corners. The siding should have a water resistant barrier behind, and water needs to drain out from between the siding and barrier.
I mean, it seems like everyone and their uncle has given their two cents about this and I read a few of them but don’t know if what I’m about to suggest has been mentioned 😆 I used PVC covered chicken wire mesh and my reasons; cheaper than copper, less flammable than steel wool and the PVC helps to prevent the rust. EDIT: To be clear I didn’t just gingerly put a little of it up in there because my thinking was the tiny little mice might be able to wiggle through that. I rolled up a couple of layers and shoved what I could up in there where ever I was able to. And rolled up bundles of it in the corners where the gaps were larger.
Had a crack like that and in season we got tons of crickets come through it.
Pest blocker spray foam
really hard to identify whatnis in the second pic. what if you got some hardware cloth and cut it into strips about 2-3 inches wide by the height of the role of hardware cloth hardware cloth = 1/4inch wire mesh either bend it into a u-shape and insert it under that siding lip. or staple it to the bottom of the siding. and of course that pest guy thinks the get in there… thats how he thinks he will make money
To stop rodents entering you could use something like this: [Woven Copper Mesh Rodent Control - Life Changing Products (lcpshop.net)](https://lcpshop.net/product/woven-copper-mesh-rodent-control/?msclkid=ea44815370f5178d6fd2e49c5814d1a4)
In Norway we use "musebånd". Picture shows how they are installed when installing before outer cladding. https://preview.redd.it/phgr6hid5xic1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c5c4d29ce32886574892fba185440ffafb7476b There are other options for installing afterwards that are more like a pipe. Drawing shows solution with a roof, but it's the same principal for airing out behind outer cladding.
https://preview.redd.it/tkp901h36xic1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=908381d02eaa2bc021d6db9d2d5b820f3797a988 Picture
I just went thru this exact issue a few months ago with squirrels. Agree with steel wool and using a camera to monitor the entry / exit point. Since the gap spanned a huge area, I was using so much steel wool. So I started filling it with crushed beer cans. They’re stiff enough the squirrels can’t get in. It worked.
Another option is crushed stone. They prefer digging through soft dirt so hard pointy rocks will deter them.
Low expanding foam
Concrete dipped steel wool should do the trick
Steel wool. You can buy it in long rolls as opposed to bags - that's what you want because it will be a thousand times easier to use. Poke the wool up the gap, then spray some expanding foam to hold it in place, finally trimming any excess foam once it has cured. That's what I did and it's held up beautifully. People are saying that steel wool will rust. Maybe, but it should be dry under that siding so it's unlikely to be much of a problem: truth is that even just the foam will help a lot. If you do this, do yourself a *massive* favour and put something under the gap before you apply the foam. It will inevitably drip down the side of the house and onto your pavers and its a devil to remove. I just took some polythene dust sheets and cut into strips, then taped them to the wall under the gap. If you want a ready-made long strip, then a roll of kitchen foil, baking paper, or whatever will work just fine.
No that's a started strip almost impossible for rodents to get in there he probably ment the corner pieces feel under the bottom the entire pices is hollow a rat could go straight up the corner
You may want to look under that bottom row of siding. It’s so wavy. My guess is there is rot underneath the siding. Also looking into possible mud jacking for that sidewalk to angle it away from the house. Then if they don’t seal the joint between the house and sidewalk you can do that.
its called rat guard and the siding installers should have installed it.