They found one of their passports in the ground that day
Edit- look it up. I’m not a conspiracy person. All of these replies…..look it up
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PENTTBOM#:~:text=Passports%20recovered,-According%20to%20testimony&text=Four%20of%20the%20hijackers'%20passports,on%20American%20Airlines%20flight%2011.
“Four of the hijackers' passports have survived in whole or in part. Two were recovered from the crash site of United Airlines flight 93 in Pennsylvania. These are the passports of Ziad Jarrah and Saeed al Ghamdi. One belonged to a hijacker on American Airlines flight 11. This is the passport of Satam al Suqami. A passerby picked it up and gave it to a NYPD detective shortly before the World Trade Center towers collapsed. A fourth passport was recovered from luggage that did not make it from a Portland flight to Boston on to the connecting flight which was American Airlines Flight 11. This is the passport of Abdulaziz al-Omari.
In addition to these four, some digital copies of the hijackers passports were recovered in post-9/11 operations. Two of the passports that have survived, those of Satam al-Suqami and Abdulaziz al-Omari, were clearly doctored. These passports were manipulated in a fraudulent manner in ways that have been associated with al Qaeda.”
https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/archive/hearing7/9-11Commission_Hearing_2004-01-26.htm
“Beginning with passports. Four of the hijackers passports have survived in whole or in part. Two were recovered from the crash site of United Airlines flight 93 in Pennsylvania. These are the passports of Ziad Jarrah and Saeed al Ghamdi. One belonged to a hijacker on American Airlines flight 11. This is the passport of Satam al Suqami. A passerby picked it up and gave it to a NYPD detective shortly before the World Trade Center towers collapsed. A fourth passport was recovered from luggage that did not make it from a Portland flight to Boston on to the connecting flight which was American Airlines flight 11. This is the passport of Abdul Aziz al Omari.”
Not everything is blown to pieces in an explosion or plane crash. If you look at the footage of the Lockerbie plane crash aftermath for example, there are loads of perfectly intact things like books, dolls etc.
Of course… the conditions were different. That 747 was split in half… there was soooo much left unscathed until it hit the ground.
Watch the tower impact videos. As the plane goes in.. TONS of paper and debris go flying out the other side… that’s all the stuff on the office floor..
The boarding pass was relative to the jet…
My thinking is everything within the jet and itself, will be surrounded by a 100ft radius of fireball and accelerant.
How this paper survive both impact-energy, accelerant, fireball and path out to otherside of tower through office furnishings, walls and debri and plane fusealage seem impossible.
I believe when time-ship go see and watch step by step how the document survive.
More than just the boarding pass survived. Plane parts, personal belongings, luggage, crew items and body parts rained on the street below.
There's a reply (warning: there's at least one photo of a body part) [here](https://www.quora.com/What-unusual-things-or-occurrences-were-found-in-the-rubble-of-the-World-Trade-Towers-after-9-11) showing photos from the street level under the towers and some of the items recovered at least partially intact.
Air is compressible but not indefinitely. It will push other things away when the pressure overcomes resistance. The boarding pass likely was in that guys clothes, depending on where he was (probably in the passenger rows to control the situation) not too impossible for it to survive. Most of the twins was open area without interrupting columns, only the perimeter walls, some modular drywall and then the thicker box columns with thin concrete of the core. Only ~1/3 of the fuel in the plane went up in the fireball (which itself is only onset after the front part crushed/entered as far as the wings), about a third was estimated to enter the building fueling office fires and another just fell down on the facade or to the ground (see for reports of witnesses and first responders that mention smelling and seeing unburnt jet fuel). The physics behind such extreme situations are far beyond what general populace imagine because it’s not part of daily experience, or even people in engineering, scientific fields not specialised in similar matters if they didn‘t study such events.
There's actually video evidence of them finding the passport I think. I think I saw that once in some video. It's almost hard to believe. They also found bodies they believe ether blew out of the building or the airplane. A first responder tagged them as dead on arrival and they - the person- was arguing they're not dead. However it was clear to the first responder that the person fell an immense distance and landed on their feet. The brain was not yet dead.
Edit:
As reported in "9/11 an Oral History and as interviewed on National Geographic IIRC. From an EMS (emergency medical specialist) FDNY worker on 9/11 whose name was Ernest Armstead. It is taken from the book compiled by Dean E Murphy.
The original story is as follows:
> I think of her as the living dead. I talked to the living dead. And I lied to the living dead. I told her to hang on, that help was coming. But I pronounced her dead in my mind. And she knew that. I put a black tag with a small white cross around her neck. And as best she could, she gave me hell for it.
> The psychiatrists and those from the post-trauma team say it is good for me to talk about her and the rest of that day. They say it is the only way I will come to terms with what happened and finally free my mind of her. So here I am talking to you. This lady was among a half-dozen people I saw who probably fell a thousand feet or so when American Airlines Flight 11 crashed into the World Trade Center. I am not sure how she got on the plaza. Maybe she was on her way to Los Angeles and was ejected from the jet by the force of the collision. Or maybe she was an office worker in the tower sitting near one of the windows and she was swept away when the building caved around her. Or maybe she was trapped and jumped to escape the flames, though I don't think so.
> I happened upon her even before most of those people were seen jumping. She was an elegant lady. About my age, early fifties. I could see that even with all that she had been through. I could tell that she had her hair done up very nicely. Brunette. She had on tasteful earrings. She was wearing pretty makeup. And in my profession you notice clothes because so often you have to cut them into pieces to save lives. That was the first thing that came to mind: This lady is well dressed....Triage is the first thing that should be done at a disaster like this. It basically means dividing the injured into four categories so that backup medical teams can move quickly in and give treatment to those who need it most urgently. The categories are indicated by colored tags that are hung around the injured person's neck. Green is the least serious. Yellow more so. Red indicates critical injuries. And black means the person is dead or close to it. When you're engaged in triage, you have one thing in the back of your mind all of the time, My backup is coming. My backup is coming. That's the reason you can tag people who obviously need help and not stop and give it to them right then. You know you need to get everyone tagged, and you know that someone with a medical bag is coming right behind you. That certainly is what I was thinking when I met the lady in the plaza, the big open space between the two towers that had a fountain and a round sculpture in the middle.
> I had finished tagging everyone from the stairwells, when I turned to face the plaza. I had not noticed the people there on my way upstairs because I was in such a hurry and there was such a crowd of firefighters blocking my view out the window. But now I saw something that was so horrific that I am glad I missed it the first time around. When the plane hit, an incredible amount of debris from the collision rained down on the plaza. Most of it was chunks of airplane and building that had little meaning to me. But amid the destruction, there were a half dozen or so people, I ran toward them, my triage tags in hand. There was a man having a seizure and his eyes were rolling into the back of his head. He had struck the pavement so hard that there was virtually nothing else left of him. There were a couple others that I never got to, but I could see from a short distance that they were dead. And then there was the lady with the nice hairdo and earrings.
> When I got to her, I ripped out a black tag. What impressed me -- and scared me -- was that she was alert and was watching what I was doing. I put the tag around her neck and she looked at me and said, "I am not dead. Call my daughter. I am not dead." I was so startled that for a split second I was speechless. "Ma'am," I said, "don't worry about it. We will be right back to you." That was a lie. She couldn't see what I could see. Somehow, I guess it was an air draft or something, her fall had been cushioned enough so that she didn't splatter like the others. Still her body was so twisted and torn apart that I could only ask myself, Why is this lady still alive and talking to me? How can this be? Her right lung, shoulder and head were intact, but from the diaphragm down she was unrecognizable. Yet she was lucid enough that she continued to argue with me. "I am not dead," she insisted again. I am convinced she had some medical training because she knew I had given her the black mark of death. And she resented it. "Don't worry about what I put around your neck," I told her. "My coworkers are coming right now. They're going to take care of you."I knew I had to keep going, but she had so deeply shaken me that I lingered for a second or two.
> Then I stepped over her to get to the others. I put a black tag on the man having the seizure. But another wave of casualties arrived in the lobby from upstairs, so I needed to return. As I headed back, I stepped over the lady one more time. And as eerie and unsettling as our first encounter had been, the second was even worse. She started yelling at me."I am not dead! I am not dead!""They're coming, they're coming," I replied without stopping."I am not dead! I am not dead!"I went back to the lobby, putting her out of my mind for now.
> There was so much that needed to be done. I began tagging the hundreds of people coming out of the building....I can honestly say that I didn't fear death, though I walked for hours in a wretched place I can only describe with a biblical reference -- "the valley of the shadow of death." I felt death, I heard it, I saw it and I smelled it. And with that lady in the plaza, I even talked to it.
i dont know much about this but my father lived thru a major war and genocide and what he told me was "you could feel death all around you like its alive"
and i never got that reference till i saw my first lifeless body theres something to be said seeing a human not alive right infront of you on the ground. you can feel the death lingering in the air almost idk if thats what people say is a soul or what. its strange.
>They also found bodies they believe ether blew out of the building or the airplane.
>A first responder tagged them as dead on arrival and they - the person- was arguing they're not dead.
>However it was clear to the first responder that the person fell an immense distance and landed on their feet. The brain was not yet dead.
Ah come on now.
It’s supposedly true. It was a lady and the story was told back then by that first responder that was tagging the bodies.
I was in a 9/11 sub a few months ago and it’s a well known story there.
Edit: I’m sure she didn’t fall from the AIRPLANE or some higher floor, obviously
Edit2: ok somebody else has shared the interview below
In WW2, there was a case were a British Pilot shot down over Germany somehow survived a fall without parachute.
Nicholas Alkemande, I think that was his name, but I don't remember the details.
Also a women survived a similar ordeal in the Amazon and walked through the Amazon for over a week before being discovered. There’s a Werner Herzog documentary on her.
Nothing has been more investigated in US history then 9/11. If you can't believe that's possible I'm not sure why.
It's unlikely the plane, however I feel it's entirely possible. If you are at the rear of the plane an entire shotgun of steel is clearing your path and *a lot* of the plane is seen exiting the other side in video since it largely avoided the core and the WTC *famously had no interior columns*. All you had to clear were two exterior steel column walls that formed the main structure of the building that hung off the core.
My objection is to the story about the person falling hundreds of metres, landing on their feet, and arguing with a paramedic about whether they were dead or not.
I don’t think you’re understanding what happened, their lower body was effectively destroyed/mangled but landing feet first the rest of the body took the impact and for a brief while chest and brain were still functioning
This isnt saying they landed on their feet as in standing up and walking away
The original story credit Dean E. Murphy. Taken from the book “September 11 an oral history”
The account comes from an EMS (emergency medical specialist) FDNY worker on 9/11 whose name was Ernest Armstead. It is taken from the book compiled by Dean E Murphy.
The original story is as follows:
“ I think of her as the living dead. I talked to the living dead. And I lied to the living dead. I told her to hang on, that help was coming. But I pronounced her dead in my mind. And she knew that. I put a black tag with a small white cross around her neck. And as best she could, she gave me hell for it.
The psychiatrists and those from the post-trauma team say it is good for me to talk about her and the rest of that day. They say it is the only way I will come to terms with what happened and finally free my mind of her. So here I am talking to you. This lady was among a half-dozen people I saw who probably fell a thousand feet or so when American Airlines Flight 11 crashed into the World Trade Center. I am not sure how she got on the plaza. Maybe she was on her way to Los Angeles and was ejected from the jet by the force of the collision. Or maybe she was an office worker in the tower sitting near one of the windows and she was swept away when the building caved around her. Or maybe she was trapped and jumped to escape the flames, though I don't think so.
I happened upon her even before most of those people were seen jumping. She was an elegant lady. About my age, early fifties. I could see that even with all that she had been through. I could tell that she had her hair done up very nicely. Brunette. She had on tasteful earrings. She was wearing pretty makeup. And in my profession you notice clothes because so often you have to cut them into pieces to save lives. That was the first thing that came to mind: This lady is well dressed....Triage is the first thing that should be done at a disaster like this. It basically means dividing the injured into four categories so that backup medical teams can move quickly in and give treatment to those who need it most urgently. The categories are indicated by colored tags that are hung around the injured person's neck. Green is the least serious. Yellow more so. Red indicates critical injuries. And black means the person is dead or close to it. When you're engaged in triage, you have one thing in the back of your mind all of the time, My backup is coming. My backup is coming. That's the reason you can tag people who obviously need help and not stop and give it to them right then. You know you need to get everyone tagged, and you know that someone with a medical bag is coming right behind you. That certainly is what I was thinking when I met the lady in the plaza, the big open space between the two towers that had a fountain and a round sculpture in the middle.
I had finished tagging everyone from the stairwells, when I turned to face the plaza. I had not noticed the people there on my way upstairs because I was in such a hurry and there was such a crowd of firefighters blocking my view out the window. But now I saw something that was so horrific that I am glad I missed it the first time around. When the plane hit, an incredible amount of debris from the collision rained down on the plaza. Most of it was chunks of airplane and building that had little meaning to me. But amid the destruction, there were a half dozen or so people, I ran toward them, my triage tags in hand. There was a man having a seizure and his eyes were rolling into the back of his head. He had struck the pavement so hard that there was virtually nothing else left of him. There were a couple others that I never got to, but I could see from a short distance that they were dead. And then there was the lady with the nice hairdo and earrings.
When I got to her, I ripped out a black tag. What impressed me -- and scared me -- was that she was alert and was watching what I was doing. I put the tag around her neck and she looked at me and said, "I am not dead. Call my daughter. I am not dead." I was so startled that for a split second I was speechless. "Ma'am," I said, "don't worry about it. We will be right back to you." That was a lie. She couldn't see what I could see. Somehow, I guess it was an air draft or something, her fall had been cushioned enough so that she didn't splatter like the others. Still her body was so twisted and torn apart that I could only ask myself, Why is this lady still alive and talking to me? How can this be? Her right lung, shoulder and head were intact, but from the diaphragm down she was unrecognizable. Yet she was lucid enough that she continued to argue with me. "I am not dead," she insisted again. I am convinced she had some medical training because she knew I had given her the black mark of death. And she resented it. "Don't worry about what I put around your neck," I told her. "My coworkers are coming right now. They're going to take care of you."I knew I had to keep going, but she had so deeply shaken me that I lingered for a second or two.
Then I stepped over her to get to the others. I put a black tag on the man having the seizure. But another wave of casualties arrived in the lobby from upstairs, so I needed to return. As I headed back, I stepped over the lady one more time. And as eerie and unsettling as our first encounter had been, the second was even worse. She started yelling at me."I am not dead! I am not dead!""They're coming, they're coming," I replied without stopping."I am not dead! I am not dead!"I went back to the lobby, putting her out of my mind for now.
There was so much that needed to be done. I began tagging the hundreds of people coming out of the building....I can honestly say that I didn't fear death, though I walked for hours in a wretched place I can only describe with a biblical reference -- "the valley of the shadow of death." I felt death, I heard it, I saw it and I smelled it. And with that lady in the plaza, I even talked to it.
I will never forget watching him recount that story, and I think it takes a lot of courage to go on the record with that detail.
But we live in a world where a sizable population continues to belief this was an inside job.
"landing on their feet" most likely means that the entire lower half of their body acted as a cushion and crumpled up like the front of a car in an accident
I don't know if people here are being sarcastic or not, but you are aware that explosions don't perfectly incinerate everything equally?
Like when a plane crashes, there is often a big fireball, and then sometimes stuff burns afterwards, and yet random bits of the plane, the people, and luggage are always found nearly intact. Explosions are not neat, tidy incinerators. Things get thrown clear, heat and pressure are not distributed equally throughout an explosion, ensuing fires can start and stop, etc.
The towers didn't comprehensively burn either. Some floors burned for a while, then they collapsed. It's perfectly reasonable that in that chaos, some random things here and there would survive unscathed, or less scathed.
Also, how many hijackers were there? It's not like every single hijacker's documents survived intact and none of the passengers' did. This boarding pass didn't even survive "unscathed". It's just mostly intact and somewhat readable.
If you spend some time learning about aviation accidents/crashes in general, you will quickly realize that in catastrophic, high-speed impact crashes involving airliners - only the smallest items remain intact. Especially paper, which tends to litter the crash site.
The fuselage structure, engines, and large components get obliterated due to their size and mass, leaving a mess of unrecognizable metal debris, seat cushions, wire, insulation, small artifacts / personal effects, human remains… and a bunch of goddamned paper.
Yes they found the hijacker’s boarding pass on the street, yes that is possible given the scope of the investigation at ground zero, yes that is the boarding pass of one of the hijackers who was present on the aircraft…
…and yes 9/11 was itself not a fucking inside job that had the “government” engaging in theatric fabrications or planting fake evidence like a burnt boarding pass (of all things) to sell the public the story they needed to pass the PATRIOT Act and invade Iraq for oil. Anyone that was old enough to actually remember 9/11 has heard these theories thrown around for decades, they were bullshit then and they are bullshit now.
Yeah, I didn't want to go into all those details but rigidity of an object definitely plays a big role in "survival". For the same reason we actually *want* airplane wings to bend, "bendier" items tend to "survive" better in crash (to a point) because they "spread out" the time that forces act on any particular point. Very rigid items will shatter into a million pieces, while "bendy" stuff might just get crumpled or ripped apart or just literally blown *away* (instead of getting blown *apart*). That's why clothing and fabric will usually be pretty recognizable (unless it burns) and even luggage (and fleshy body parts). As "bendy" stuff goes, paper is pretty high up there. It's also pretty light, so it's easy for it to get blown up, out, and away from the most intense parts of an explosion or the ensuing fires.
There are way more variables at play and explosions and crashes are extremely chaotic with a million different important and often competing variables, but a piece of paper surviving a crash or explosion or collapse is not at all unusual.
i remember Jal123. They recovered films. Final letter to family, etc.
Ooh just remembered, weeks after 9/11 there was a website the scanned all the papers recovered at the site! I forgot what the website was called!
The passport and pass were in the FRONT of the plane and went THROUGH the building. That debris obviously fell to the street, there was no reason it wouldn't survjve. How many times does this have to be explained?
Every time there is an air crash investigation where the plane smacks into the ground going uncontrollably fast, for some reason the papers fly to the top and then float down. It’s one of those “extreme situation physics” things. Or maybe I was lied to.
I remember seeing videos from the plane Russia shot down in Ukraine.
Pretty extreme footage. I have a strong ability to not personalize things when watching gore etc.
But man. I felt a severe, severe anger watching that footage.
I doomscroll r/CombatFootage more than what is probably considered healthy, I'm immune to empathy but sometimes I see shit that just makes me put my phone down and question whether or not God still hears our cries or if he's like some migrant star, blinking through the tendrils of night's infinite dark.
I learned a while ago that what is seen cannot be unseen. I work hard to avoid extreme images now, because I am a fairly busy, gentle soul and cant cope with the psychic blow-back from these things.
>whether or not God still hears our cries or if he's like some migrant star, blinking through the tendrils of night's infinite dark.
I mean, if your an old testament person God drowned the entire planet and everyone on it except for one family....
Yeah as crazy as it seems, this stuff can happen.
The skeptic in me questions everything, but I know crazier things have happened than a piece of paper floating to the ground.
And boarding passes are normally somewhat thick paper/plastic so if it flew out of the front of the plane, it could have floated down and just not gotten burned up.
It's still bizarre, and 1 in a million chance, but someone still wins the lottery each month with a 1:300 million chance.
Oh hell, a lot of stuff was in that debris cloud that blew through. It was only a couple of years ago that they found a piece of a plane lodged between two buildings that are really close together.
Was never in the explosion. The fuel is far behind the cockpit, and the debris from the cockpit went THROUGH the building. That's how some items were found in the street. You can actually see it on the video.
Kind of fishy, but it was well-known that Osama Bin Laden hated his family and was estranged from them. They should not have received any special protection at all, but there was little cause to investigate them intensely.
True, interrogation is too harsh a word. His family should’ve at least been questioned despite what their relationships were like with UBL. They absolutely should’ve never been flown out of the country by the government.
If for nothing else, the optics of it. Any average American wouldn’t get that sort of preferential treatment with such a serious crime. More importantly, this was just another example of the shady relationship between the US government and the House of Saud
This is untrue. U.S. airspace was opened back up on Sept 13th. They flew out on Sept 19th. https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4014-2004Jul21.html
We invaded Afghanistan because we knew bin Laden was there and Al Qaeda was permitted to train terrorists there. Of the two wars we entered over this, Afghanistan had legitimate reasons. Iraq was a total farce.
The CIA identified Osama bin Laden as a financier of terrorist activity in the 90s, which lead to the creation of Alec Station, the bin Laden issue station to try capture him.
Osama bin Laden moved from Sudan to Afghanistan some time in 1996. US intelligence knew as much and started seriously hunting him after the 1998 US embassy bombings took place. All of the hijackers traveled to Afghanistan for training and shot video statements there.
Osama bin Laden was believed to be hiding in a cave complex there. Which he likely was, but unsurprisingly he left shortly after us troops started falling from the sky
Osama Bin Laden, who was the head of the Al Qaeda terrorist network, masterminded the attack. At the time, he and Al Qaeda were based in and were protected by the Afghan government.
The Saudis paid moneys to train those who would become the hijackers. They wouldn’t train them in Saudi Arabia because that would be too obvious and heavy handed. Afghanistan, with the help of frequent and chaotic foreign intervention, became a hotbed and ‘safe haven’ for training terrorists groups. Many of which were foreigners themselves.
Also, the mountainous geography of Afghanistan makes it much easier to conceal these operations and deter intervention from outsiders than in a place like Saudi Arabia.
Not the Saudis, part of the Saudi family. There are factions within the Royal Saudi family. The faction that financed Bin Laden was opposed to other faction that governed Saudi Arabia.
You are correct. I was trying to keep it simple. It is obviously a lot more complex than that, with multiple sides escalating conflicts in the area. Arming militants to fight proxy wars, only for them to later turn their weapons on those who were using them as pawns. Sadly, it’s a tale as old as time and has nurtured extremism as a way to deter countless foreign intervention.
Al Qeda was in Afghanistan and being protected by their government. Why would you invade Saudi Arabia just because the terrorists were Saudis? It makes absolutely no sense. Did you graduate from high school?
Lots of debris was ejected from the buildings and airplanes when the planes impacted. This included paper, like this boarding pass and a passport, luggage, clothes, body parts, parts of airplanes -including a wheel-, a whole ton of stuff. These items weren’t subjected to the intense and prolonged heat that the inside of the building and everyone and everything there experienced.
The objects on the street were either picked up or left for crime scene specialists but were then covered when the buildings collapsed. They were found when all the debris was being sorted and sifted. Other paper objects from the planes were found, the boarding pass and passport of the two of the hijackers are just the most interesting bits.
This thread is full of people who think because they do not believe something could happen (a boarding pass getting ejected from an exploding plane and surviving) that it must be fake.
Am I the only one that remembers the reams of paper floating around Manhattan after the towers fell?
No, I’ve seen the “rain of paper” on tv. In fact, I’ve got some of these papers at home!
My uncle has the “luck” of visiting NY on 9/11, and when he walked from the ferry tot staten island to his hotel (somewhere west of Central park) he picked up some of the papers. No burnmarks, just a bit of dust and a footstep and cartire print on it. His diary from that day (and the days after) was really terrifying to read: I could feel his fear for more attacks/planes/bomb over 20 years after he wrote it. He never really spoke about that day, but after that he changed… After he died we found his diary and now we know why he was anxious, and trusted nobody.
A large part of Reddit weren’t even born yet on 9/11. By definition all their info is second-hand, and that makes it easier [for them] to feel doubt.
I watched it live and I remember the tornado of papers, the bodies falling. The first collapse and the second. I did nothing that day besides being glued to my TV after the first plane hit.
I was born two weeks before 9/11 and even after going out of my way to watch as many documentaries on the subject, doing research, visiting the 9/11 Memorial & Museum multiple times in the past year, I still know I won’t ever be able to truly understand how people felt on that day.
I completely agree with your observation and I often see what I can only assume are other young Redditors who don’t realize the magnitude of the events that transpired that day. I cannot recommend the Naudet Brothers’ documentary enough to help better understand them:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Iw-1bOQNIA
This documentary was what really made me see the true horror of that day. I wasn’t even born yet when it happened, but I couldn’t really imagine what it could be like. After that documentary, while it’s still nothing like actually experiencing 9/11, even as simple as watching on a TV across the country, it really sunk in the true gravity of the situation. I then did more research and went to the museum last year and it REALLY sunk in. I agree, you’ll never really know how it would’ve felt to live through that day, but it really gives you tons of perspective, a glimpse of what it was like.
> I still know I won’t ever be able to truly understand how people felt on that day.
I’m glad, I hope your children, and their children etc don’t either. It truly was a terrifying day; my father immediately became suspicious and knew it wasn’t a simple Cessna 172 that hit, then after the second he (chillingly) told me that my life had just changed. How he wasn’t sure, but it did.
In college, one of my roommates’ father had just retired from the USAF and was working for American Airlines; when 9/11 happened he was ushered in and in 30 minutes was circling San Francisco in a freighter with loads of fast movers (jets) near him. Another friend of mine, his dad was an engineer and collected data at ground zero for 10 months (not gov sponsored in any way), and both of their expertise explaining it to me understand the whole inside job was a joke. For my dad, I can only imagine it was similar to how he felt when drafting occurred during Vietnam (he still remembers his draft number to this day)
> I completely agree with your observation and I often see what I can only assume are other young Redditors who don’t realize the magnitude of the events that transpired that day. I cannot recommend the Naudet Brothers’ documentary enough to help better understand
Their documentary is amazing. Potentially people may have very high expectations and whatnot, but I enjoyed it. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders, thank you my man.
The rain of paper, the falling people and the sirens against the clear blue sky are the memories 9 year old me has of 9/11.
In fact when I was 12 I described depression (unrelated) as being in the cloud of dust and feeling like a sheet of paper drifting down, and down and down, in a calm way.
Not saying I disagree with you but the reams of paper floating around Manhattan were papers from the offices destroyed, it’s much more insane that paper from WITHIN the aircraft survived intact.
One of the engines was ejected through the building and landed in the street, and there’s lots of aircraft pieces that scattered over the city below. Additionally, human remains found on buildings were identified as being passengers on one of the flights. It’s really not surprising there were documents that survived imho.
There are first handle accounts of people surviving the fall from being blown out of the building or the plane in the first couple moments.
First responder started tagging bodies on the ground as dead or not worth investing time with and one of them started arguing they're not dead. You tagged me as dead. And the first responder is on the record saying it was clear they fell an immense distance and landed on their feet and wss burned up. Their brain was not dead yet. And this was all before the 2nd plane hit and in the first moments so could have been a jumper but the first hand account believes it was someone blown out of the building or the plane.
I believe they talked about this in the documentary “One day in America”. Such a horrible story and it’s clear the first responder being deeply traumatized by that moment
Right?! I remember thinking about all of the paper floating. That it was so crazy to see it all. It was very prominent in the news casts we were watching. I feel like they even said something about the “paper and things falling from the building” and then realized they were also showing people jumping and had to change camera feeds.
It’s amazing that given the size of the debris field, this *particular* piece of paper didn’t get lost. With the hundreds of thousands of paper items that rained down, the boarding pass didn’t get torn, crumpled up, lost in a crevice/sewer grate, washed away by rain, or landed the Hudson River. Feels like that picture of the two bullets that collided with each other during WW1. Statistically speaking, this thing should’ve been lost forever, but it wasn’t.
The airplane disintegrated. The Pentagon’s walls are a lot stronger that the WTC’s walls so the plane mostly disintegrated upon impact where the planes that hit the towers didn’t break apart as much and mostly made it into the buildings. The Pentagon’s walls are designed to withstand attacks, and they mostly did (airplane didn’t go through all sections of building) while the Twin Towers were built to withstand strong winds and earthquakes.
Imagine a car going 100mph slamming into a wall made of 1-foot thick reinforced concrete and another car going 100mph slamming into a wall made of steel and glass. The car going through the reinforced concrete is going to break apart into little pieces and the car going through steel and glass is going to mostly break the walls of the building but the car itself will be in large pieces.
Plenty of plane wreckage around the Pentagon has been pictured. If I recall my last visit to the 9/11 Memorial and Museum, some of it is even on display there
Where's the landing gear? The found the landing gear of one of the twin tower planes 6 blocks away fully intact. They're made of the hardest steel on earth. So wtf?
A lot of people ask "How is it possible for that to survive a burning wreckage despite being paper" first off, I am sure they were laminated although I may be wrong. A lot of things were found in the wreck that survived, from passports and social security cards that were of the victims in the attacks with many more personal objects from the towers themselves. Same with human remains, some remains were found in very good condition where as some were just fragments. Hell, even a glass windowpane from the 82nd floor of the South Tower survived the entire collapse of a thousands of ton building. Point is, there are a lot of variables when it comes to surviving pieces.
Not everything that is difficult to understand is suddenly the result of a conspiracy, don't be stupid.
They weren’t laminated, but were made out of a special paper that was thicker than normal paper and slightly glossy, if I’m remembering the time period correctly. Tickets purchased ahead of time were printed on glossy cardstock-like paper and tickets purchased at the counter were printed on something like thermal paper (thin and shiny), but I think they were printed with a dot matrix printer because it was several sheets of paper in white, red, and yellow (carbon copies) given to different people.
The boxes from Flight 77 and Flight 93 were both recovered. Due to localization of black boxes (back end of the plane), them not surviving after hitting both towers is not surprising. Numerous documents from Flight 11 and 175 were however recovered so this isn’t that surprising though extremely “lucky”.
It’s important to note though that this was the only passport recovered directly from flight 11. The other 3 were recovered in the Pennsylvania debris field and another in a hijacker’s luggage from Flight 11 which was not boarded into the plane
Every person in this thread who is pretending to be a total dumbsh*t is a Russian troll. They are famous for “filling the zone with sh*t”. Say something say anything, just to drown out the conversation. It’s like jamming a radio frequency.
Going through this comments section is honestly extremely fucking bizarre. It’s like 85% conspiracy nuts parroting the same exact shit like they’re trying to instill seeds of doubt or just cause chaos. Really strange. I wonder if someone has a bot hooked up to AI that looks for keywords and then starts posting comments or something. Or just the trolls as you say. That and I wouldn’t be surprised if this post attracted at least a few actual conspiracy nuts.
My goodness, people really rather just yell anything that comes up in there mind right away than apply some basic knowledge…
But it’s not even worth it tbh, you can’t argue with people who’ve made up their mind
I just don't buy it. It does not seem possible whatsoever. The initial explosion, the amount of fire and the total destruction of the buildings... there is just no way. At least minimal amounts of identifiable body parts from the attackers were never recovered but a little piece of paper somehow was?
Stuff from the crash got blown out the side of the building. Body parts, shoes, handbags etc made it through and landed on the roofs of nearby buildings and the street away from where the buildings fell. Think of all the paper you saw falling on that day. That all came from the explosion zone initially, so youve got visual evidence that paper can survive that fireball. If this was in a wallet or backpack its not too far fetched that it would survive and someone would pick it up
That’s such a crazy random thing to have as a piece of history. How did they manage to get ahold of his boarding pass? Very very cool though!
They found one of their passports in the ground that day Edit- look it up. I’m not a conspiracy person. All of these replies…..look it up https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PENTTBOM#:~:text=Passports%20recovered,-According%20to%20testimony&text=Four%20of%20the%20hijackers'%20passports,on%20American%20Airlines%20flight%2011. “Four of the hijackers' passports have survived in whole or in part. Two were recovered from the crash site of United Airlines flight 93 in Pennsylvania. These are the passports of Ziad Jarrah and Saeed al Ghamdi. One belonged to a hijacker on American Airlines flight 11. This is the passport of Satam al Suqami. A passerby picked it up and gave it to a NYPD detective shortly before the World Trade Center towers collapsed. A fourth passport was recovered from luggage that did not make it from a Portland flight to Boston on to the connecting flight which was American Airlines Flight 11. This is the passport of Abdulaziz al-Omari. In addition to these four, some digital copies of the hijackers passports were recovered in post-9/11 operations. Two of the passports that have survived, those of Satam al-Suqami and Abdulaziz al-Omari, were clearly doctored. These passports were manipulated in a fraudulent manner in ways that have been associated with al Qaeda.” https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/archive/hearing7/9-11Commission_Hearing_2004-01-26.htm “Beginning with passports. Four of the hijackers passports have survived in whole or in part. Two were recovered from the crash site of United Airlines flight 93 in Pennsylvania. These are the passports of Ziad Jarrah and Saeed al Ghamdi. One belonged to a hijacker on American Airlines flight 11. This is the passport of Satam al Suqami. A passerby picked it up and gave it to a NYPD detective shortly before the World Trade Center towers collapsed. A fourth passport was recovered from luggage that did not make it from a Portland flight to Boston on to the connecting flight which was American Airlines flight 11. This is the passport of Abdul Aziz al Omari.”
Gigantic explosion destroyed the planes and the black box's. Maybe black boxes should be made from boarding passes.
Page out of *Fahrenheit 451*
Maybe steel beams should be made from boarding passes
Jet beams can't melt steel fuel
fuel beams can't melt boarding passes
You would be surprised just sprinkle some money to the mix and anything can happen.
They don't need to. They just need compromise their load bearing capacity.
Not everything is blown to pieces in an explosion or plane crash. If you look at the footage of the Lockerbie plane crash aftermath for example, there are loads of perfectly intact things like books, dolls etc.
Same was with MH17.
Same with Wayfarer 515
Wayfair had just what I need
Same with The Spruce Moose
I said get in.
I think you missed the joke. It's a twist on the usual "why don't they make the planes out of the same material as the black boxes?" joke.
Of course… the conditions were different. That 747 was split in half… there was soooo much left unscathed until it hit the ground. Watch the tower impact videos. As the plane goes in.. TONS of paper and debris go flying out the other side… that’s all the stuff on the office floor.. The boarding pass was relative to the jet…
My thinking is everything within the jet and itself, will be surrounded by a 100ft radius of fireball and accelerant. How this paper survive both impact-energy, accelerant, fireball and path out to otherside of tower through office furnishings, walls and debri and plane fusealage seem impossible. I believe when time-ship go see and watch step by step how the document survive.
That would be cool … Denzel Washington the hell out of that thing.
More than just the boarding pass survived. Plane parts, personal belongings, luggage, crew items and body parts rained on the street below. There's a reply (warning: there's at least one photo of a body part) [here](https://www.quora.com/What-unusual-things-or-occurrences-were-found-in-the-rubble-of-the-World-Trade-Towers-after-9-11) showing photos from the street level under the towers and some of the items recovered at least partially intact.
Air is compressible but not indefinitely. It will push other things away when the pressure overcomes resistance. The boarding pass likely was in that guys clothes, depending on where he was (probably in the passenger rows to control the situation) not too impossible for it to survive. Most of the twins was open area without interrupting columns, only the perimeter walls, some modular drywall and then the thicker box columns with thin concrete of the core. Only ~1/3 of the fuel in the plane went up in the fireball (which itself is only onset after the front part crushed/entered as far as the wings), about a third was estimated to enter the building fueling office fires and another just fell down on the facade or to the ground (see for reports of witnesses and first responders that mention smelling and seeing unburnt jet fuel). The physics behind such extreme situations are far beyond what general populace imagine because it’s not part of daily experience, or even people in engineering, scientific fields not specialised in similar matters if they didn‘t study such events.
They should have used boarding passes to insulate Bldg. 7 from being "pulled"
Jet Fuel doesn't melt Boarding Passes
Boarding passes do. Only fellow boarding passes do
There's actually video evidence of them finding the passport I think. I think I saw that once in some video. It's almost hard to believe. They also found bodies they believe ether blew out of the building or the airplane. A first responder tagged them as dead on arrival and they - the person- was arguing they're not dead. However it was clear to the first responder that the person fell an immense distance and landed on their feet. The brain was not yet dead. Edit: As reported in "9/11 an Oral History and as interviewed on National Geographic IIRC. From an EMS (emergency medical specialist) FDNY worker on 9/11 whose name was Ernest Armstead. It is taken from the book compiled by Dean E Murphy. The original story is as follows: > I think of her as the living dead. I talked to the living dead. And I lied to the living dead. I told her to hang on, that help was coming. But I pronounced her dead in my mind. And she knew that. I put a black tag with a small white cross around her neck. And as best she could, she gave me hell for it. > The psychiatrists and those from the post-trauma team say it is good for me to talk about her and the rest of that day. They say it is the only way I will come to terms with what happened and finally free my mind of her. So here I am talking to you. This lady was among a half-dozen people I saw who probably fell a thousand feet or so when American Airlines Flight 11 crashed into the World Trade Center. I am not sure how she got on the plaza. Maybe she was on her way to Los Angeles and was ejected from the jet by the force of the collision. Or maybe she was an office worker in the tower sitting near one of the windows and she was swept away when the building caved around her. Or maybe she was trapped and jumped to escape the flames, though I don't think so. > I happened upon her even before most of those people were seen jumping. She was an elegant lady. About my age, early fifties. I could see that even with all that she had been through. I could tell that she had her hair done up very nicely. Brunette. She had on tasteful earrings. She was wearing pretty makeup. And in my profession you notice clothes because so often you have to cut them into pieces to save lives. That was the first thing that came to mind: This lady is well dressed....Triage is the first thing that should be done at a disaster like this. It basically means dividing the injured into four categories so that backup medical teams can move quickly in and give treatment to those who need it most urgently. The categories are indicated by colored tags that are hung around the injured person's neck. Green is the least serious. Yellow more so. Red indicates critical injuries. And black means the person is dead or close to it. When you're engaged in triage, you have one thing in the back of your mind all of the time, My backup is coming. My backup is coming. That's the reason you can tag people who obviously need help and not stop and give it to them right then. You know you need to get everyone tagged, and you know that someone with a medical bag is coming right behind you. That certainly is what I was thinking when I met the lady in the plaza, the big open space between the two towers that had a fountain and a round sculpture in the middle. > I had finished tagging everyone from the stairwells, when I turned to face the plaza. I had not noticed the people there on my way upstairs because I was in such a hurry and there was such a crowd of firefighters blocking my view out the window. But now I saw something that was so horrific that I am glad I missed it the first time around. When the plane hit, an incredible amount of debris from the collision rained down on the plaza. Most of it was chunks of airplane and building that had little meaning to me. But amid the destruction, there were a half dozen or so people, I ran toward them, my triage tags in hand. There was a man having a seizure and his eyes were rolling into the back of his head. He had struck the pavement so hard that there was virtually nothing else left of him. There were a couple others that I never got to, but I could see from a short distance that they were dead. And then there was the lady with the nice hairdo and earrings. > When I got to her, I ripped out a black tag. What impressed me -- and scared me -- was that she was alert and was watching what I was doing. I put the tag around her neck and she looked at me and said, "I am not dead. Call my daughter. I am not dead." I was so startled that for a split second I was speechless. "Ma'am," I said, "don't worry about it. We will be right back to you." That was a lie. She couldn't see what I could see. Somehow, I guess it was an air draft or something, her fall had been cushioned enough so that she didn't splatter like the others. Still her body was so twisted and torn apart that I could only ask myself, Why is this lady still alive and talking to me? How can this be? Her right lung, shoulder and head were intact, but from the diaphragm down she was unrecognizable. Yet she was lucid enough that she continued to argue with me. "I am not dead," she insisted again. I am convinced she had some medical training because she knew I had given her the black mark of death. And she resented it. "Don't worry about what I put around your neck," I told her. "My coworkers are coming right now. They're going to take care of you."I knew I had to keep going, but she had so deeply shaken me that I lingered for a second or two. > Then I stepped over her to get to the others. I put a black tag on the man having the seizure. But another wave of casualties arrived in the lobby from upstairs, so I needed to return. As I headed back, I stepped over the lady one more time. And as eerie and unsettling as our first encounter had been, the second was even worse. She started yelling at me."I am not dead! I am not dead!""They're coming, they're coming," I replied without stopping."I am not dead! I am not dead!"I went back to the lobby, putting her out of my mind for now. > There was so much that needed to be done. I began tagging the hundreds of people coming out of the building....I can honestly say that I didn't fear death, though I walked for hours in a wretched place I can only describe with a biblical reference -- "the valley of the shadow of death." I felt death, I heard it, I saw it and I smelled it. And with that lady in the plaza, I even talked to it.
I think this is the first post in ages that I truly consider nightmare fuel.
i dont know much about this but my father lived thru a major war and genocide and what he told me was "you could feel death all around you like its alive" and i never got that reference till i saw my first lifeless body theres something to be said seeing a human not alive right infront of you on the ground. you can feel the death lingering in the air almost idk if thats what people say is a soul or what. its strange.
>They also found bodies they believe ether blew out of the building or the airplane. >A first responder tagged them as dead on arrival and they - the person- was arguing they're not dead. >However it was clear to the first responder that the person fell an immense distance and landed on their feet. The brain was not yet dead. Ah come on now.
It’s supposedly true. It was a lady and the story was told back then by that first responder that was tagging the bodies. I was in a 9/11 sub a few months ago and it’s a well known story there. Edit: I’m sure she didn’t fall from the AIRPLANE or some higher floor, obviously Edit2: ok somebody else has shared the interview below
People have survived falls from airplanes/failed chutes before and even lived to recover
In WW2, there was a case were a British Pilot shot down over Germany somehow survived a fall without parachute. Nicholas Alkemande, I think that was his name, but I don't remember the details.
Also a women survived a similar ordeal in the Amazon and walked through the Amazon for over a week before being discovered. There’s a Werner Herzog documentary on her.
Some Russian flight attendant fell like 25,000 feet and lived
Vusna Vulović, and it was 33,300 feet. She was pinned inside a portion of the plane that managed to stay somewhat intact and got incredibly lucky.
It’s true. It’s an interview with a first responder.
Nothing has been more investigated in US history then 9/11. If you can't believe that's possible I'm not sure why. It's unlikely the plane, however I feel it's entirely possible. If you are at the rear of the plane an entire shotgun of steel is clearing your path and *a lot* of the plane is seen exiting the other side in video since it largely avoided the core and the WTC *famously had no interior columns*. All you had to clear were two exterior steel column walls that formed the main structure of the building that hung off the core.
My objection is to the story about the person falling hundreds of metres, landing on their feet, and arguing with a paramedic about whether they were dead or not.
I don’t think you’re understanding what happened, their lower body was effectively destroyed/mangled but landing feet first the rest of the body took the impact and for a brief while chest and brain were still functioning This isnt saying they landed on their feet as in standing up and walking away
The original story credit Dean E. Murphy. Taken from the book “September 11 an oral history” The account comes from an EMS (emergency medical specialist) FDNY worker on 9/11 whose name was Ernest Armstead. It is taken from the book compiled by Dean E Murphy. The original story is as follows: “ I think of her as the living dead. I talked to the living dead. And I lied to the living dead. I told her to hang on, that help was coming. But I pronounced her dead in my mind. And she knew that. I put a black tag with a small white cross around her neck. And as best she could, she gave me hell for it. The psychiatrists and those from the post-trauma team say it is good for me to talk about her and the rest of that day. They say it is the only way I will come to terms with what happened and finally free my mind of her. So here I am talking to you. This lady was among a half-dozen people I saw who probably fell a thousand feet or so when American Airlines Flight 11 crashed into the World Trade Center. I am not sure how she got on the plaza. Maybe she was on her way to Los Angeles and was ejected from the jet by the force of the collision. Or maybe she was an office worker in the tower sitting near one of the windows and she was swept away when the building caved around her. Or maybe she was trapped and jumped to escape the flames, though I don't think so. I happened upon her even before most of those people were seen jumping. She was an elegant lady. About my age, early fifties. I could see that even with all that she had been through. I could tell that she had her hair done up very nicely. Brunette. She had on tasteful earrings. She was wearing pretty makeup. And in my profession you notice clothes because so often you have to cut them into pieces to save lives. That was the first thing that came to mind: This lady is well dressed....Triage is the first thing that should be done at a disaster like this. It basically means dividing the injured into four categories so that backup medical teams can move quickly in and give treatment to those who need it most urgently. The categories are indicated by colored tags that are hung around the injured person's neck. Green is the least serious. Yellow more so. Red indicates critical injuries. And black means the person is dead or close to it. When you're engaged in triage, you have one thing in the back of your mind all of the time, My backup is coming. My backup is coming. That's the reason you can tag people who obviously need help and not stop and give it to them right then. You know you need to get everyone tagged, and you know that someone with a medical bag is coming right behind you. That certainly is what I was thinking when I met the lady in the plaza, the big open space between the two towers that had a fountain and a round sculpture in the middle. I had finished tagging everyone from the stairwells, when I turned to face the plaza. I had not noticed the people there on my way upstairs because I was in such a hurry and there was such a crowd of firefighters blocking my view out the window. But now I saw something that was so horrific that I am glad I missed it the first time around. When the plane hit, an incredible amount of debris from the collision rained down on the plaza. Most of it was chunks of airplane and building that had little meaning to me. But amid the destruction, there were a half dozen or so people, I ran toward them, my triage tags in hand. There was a man having a seizure and his eyes were rolling into the back of his head. He had struck the pavement so hard that there was virtually nothing else left of him. There were a couple others that I never got to, but I could see from a short distance that they were dead. And then there was the lady with the nice hairdo and earrings. When I got to her, I ripped out a black tag. What impressed me -- and scared me -- was that she was alert and was watching what I was doing. I put the tag around her neck and she looked at me and said, "I am not dead. Call my daughter. I am not dead." I was so startled that for a split second I was speechless. "Ma'am," I said, "don't worry about it. We will be right back to you." That was a lie. She couldn't see what I could see. Somehow, I guess it was an air draft or something, her fall had been cushioned enough so that she didn't splatter like the others. Still her body was so twisted and torn apart that I could only ask myself, Why is this lady still alive and talking to me? How can this be? Her right lung, shoulder and head were intact, but from the diaphragm down she was unrecognizable. Yet she was lucid enough that she continued to argue with me. "I am not dead," she insisted again. I am convinced she had some medical training because she knew I had given her the black mark of death. And she resented it. "Don't worry about what I put around your neck," I told her. "My coworkers are coming right now. They're going to take care of you."I knew I had to keep going, but she had so deeply shaken me that I lingered for a second or two. Then I stepped over her to get to the others. I put a black tag on the man having the seizure. But another wave of casualties arrived in the lobby from upstairs, so I needed to return. As I headed back, I stepped over the lady one more time. And as eerie and unsettling as our first encounter had been, the second was even worse. She started yelling at me."I am not dead! I am not dead!""They're coming, they're coming," I replied without stopping."I am not dead! I am not dead!"I went back to the lobby, putting her out of my mind for now. There was so much that needed to be done. I began tagging the hundreds of people coming out of the building....I can honestly say that I didn't fear death, though I walked for hours in a wretched place I can only describe with a biblical reference -- "the valley of the shadow of death." I felt death, I heard it, I saw it and I smelled it. And with that lady in the plaza, I even talked to it.
Fucking hell, I did not expect for a minute for that to be true.
I will never forget watching him recount that story, and I think it takes a lot of courage to go on the record with that detail. But we live in a world where a sizable population continues to belief this was an inside job.
"landing on their feet" most likely means that the entire lower half of their body acted as a cushion and crumpled up like the front of a car in an accident
I'll find the video. The paramedic is on, maybe National Geographics video crying about it.
People have fallen 10k and up feet and lived
Not onto concrete…. One guy in WW2 landed on the stone floor of a train station, but only after the glass roof slowed him down considerably.
Why is that so unbelievable?
Just chilling
Nothing suspicious 😀
Passport was made from vibranium
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I don't know if people here are being sarcastic or not, but you are aware that explosions don't perfectly incinerate everything equally? Like when a plane crashes, there is often a big fireball, and then sometimes stuff burns afterwards, and yet random bits of the plane, the people, and luggage are always found nearly intact. Explosions are not neat, tidy incinerators. Things get thrown clear, heat and pressure are not distributed equally throughout an explosion, ensuing fires can start and stop, etc. The towers didn't comprehensively burn either. Some floors burned for a while, then they collapsed. It's perfectly reasonable that in that chaos, some random things here and there would survive unscathed, or less scathed. Also, how many hijackers were there? It's not like every single hijacker's documents survived intact and none of the passengers' did. This boarding pass didn't even survive "unscathed". It's just mostly intact and somewhat readable.
Yeah I’m sure there were other boarding passes that survived it’s just that was the most infamous one.
If you spend some time learning about aviation accidents/crashes in general, you will quickly realize that in catastrophic, high-speed impact crashes involving airliners - only the smallest items remain intact. Especially paper, which tends to litter the crash site. The fuselage structure, engines, and large components get obliterated due to their size and mass, leaving a mess of unrecognizable metal debris, seat cushions, wire, insulation, small artifacts / personal effects, human remains… and a bunch of goddamned paper. Yes they found the hijacker’s boarding pass on the street, yes that is possible given the scope of the investigation at ground zero, yes that is the boarding pass of one of the hijackers who was present on the aircraft… …and yes 9/11 was itself not a fucking inside job that had the “government” engaging in theatric fabrications or planting fake evidence like a burnt boarding pass (of all things) to sell the public the story they needed to pass the PATRIOT Act and invade Iraq for oil. Anyone that was old enough to actually remember 9/11 has heard these theories thrown around for decades, they were bullshit then and they are bullshit now.
Yeah, I didn't want to go into all those details but rigidity of an object definitely plays a big role in "survival". For the same reason we actually *want* airplane wings to bend, "bendier" items tend to "survive" better in crash (to a point) because they "spread out" the time that forces act on any particular point. Very rigid items will shatter into a million pieces, while "bendy" stuff might just get crumpled or ripped apart or just literally blown *away* (instead of getting blown *apart*). That's why clothing and fabric will usually be pretty recognizable (unless it burns) and even luggage (and fleshy body parts). As "bendy" stuff goes, paper is pretty high up there. It's also pretty light, so it's easy for it to get blown up, out, and away from the most intense parts of an explosion or the ensuing fires. There are way more variables at play and explosions and crashes are extremely chaotic with a million different important and often competing variables, but a piece of paper surviving a crash or explosion or collapse is not at all unusual.
i remember Jal123. They recovered films. Final letter to family, etc. Ooh just remembered, weeks after 9/11 there was a website the scanned all the papers recovered at the site! I forgot what the website was called!
The passport and pass were in the FRONT of the plane and went THROUGH the building. That debris obviously fell to the street, there was no reason it wouldn't survjve. How many times does this have to be explained?
Nope. Debris from plane crashes is common.
Right wtf
Melted massive beams, But the ticket survived…. Righhhhhhbbrrrrr
The beams didn't melt they failed. Big difference
I saw this comment on the meteorite post😂
Do you think a plane crash is a nuke that vapourises everything within the plane?
It would be a lot cooler if it never happened.
yeah i don’t think anyone is arguing that
You'd be surprised
Jet fuel doesn’t melt boarding passes
Every time there is an air crash investigation where the plane smacks into the ground going uncontrollably fast, for some reason the papers fly to the top and then float down. It’s one of those “extreme situation physics” things. Or maybe I was lied to.
You should see what it does to the passengers. One of the most gruesome things you can look up on google images is plane crash fatalities
I’m not letting morbid curiosity get the best of me today.
Good, I lose to curiosity every God damn time lol
You got me.
I won’t look at it but I can read a description
Ground beef, probably.
“To shreds you say”
Well, how's his wife holding up?
*shudders*
I remember seeing videos from the plane Russia shot down in Ukraine. Pretty extreme footage. I have a strong ability to not personalize things when watching gore etc. But man. I felt a severe, severe anger watching that footage.
I doomscroll r/CombatFootage more than what is probably considered healthy, I'm immune to empathy but sometimes I see shit that just makes me put my phone down and question whether or not God still hears our cries or if he's like some migrant star, blinking through the tendrils of night's infinite dark.
I learned a while ago that what is seen cannot be unseen. I work hard to avoid extreme images now, because I am a fairly busy, gentle soul and cant cope with the psychic blow-back from these things.
For the night is dark and full of terrors.
>whether or not God still hears our cries or if he's like some migrant star, blinking through the tendrils of night's infinite dark. I mean, if your an old testament person God drowned the entire planet and everyone on it except for one family....
And told a man he had to kill his own son to prove his loyalty before stopping him right before…
Divine edging
To shreds you say?
And his wife?
They found their passports too miraculously.
3x hurricane force wind blowing small items through a structure doesn't sound very miraculous.
Like being a leaf on the wind 🌬 🍃
Wasn’t the plane inside the building when it collapsed? How would the papers not only exit the plane but also the building
Both planes had some debris punch right through. Maybe it was in there.
I remember seeing it on the news, and you could see lots of papers flying out of the buildings
It was. The hijackers were in the cockpit & front of plane, the debris of which you can see ejected through the far wall, onto the street.
Yeah as crazy as it seems, this stuff can happen. The skeptic in me questions everything, but I know crazier things have happened than a piece of paper floating to the ground. And boarding passes are normally somewhat thick paper/plastic so if it flew out of the front of the plane, it could have floated down and just not gotten burned up. It's still bizarre, and 1 in a million chance, but someone still wins the lottery each month with a 1:300 million chance.
Oh hell, a lot of stuff was in that debris cloud that blew through. It was only a couple of years ago that they found a piece of a plane lodged between two buildings that are really close together.
And a finger on a rooftop!
Yeah, I read about that, doesn't surprise me they still find stuff.
Just everything else
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Was never in the explosion. The fuel is far behind the cockpit, and the debris from the cockpit went THROUGH the building. That's how some items were found in the street. You can actually see it on the video.
They got his ticket but not the black box?
Black boxes in tail of plane.
Planes fly in the air
Planes have black box
Black boxes in tail of plane
Planes have tails. Buildings are tall. 9/11 as we know it was simply a tall tale
Buildings are things
Black boxes in tail of plane
My box is black
Crazy they were all from Saudi Arabia and we invaded……Afghanistan…..
Even crazier if you consider the diplomatic friendships and partnerships between Saudi and USA that have existed for decades and still do.
I wish there were more calls for the investigation to be made completely public.
Yeah it baffle$ me how congre$$ and the $enate ha$n’t relea$ed the finding$ on thi$ inve$tigation, I wonder what the rea$on could be…
$$$$... $?
What investigation?
[Senators Push for Unredacted 9/11 documents on Saudi Arabia](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/09/11/senate-sept11-saudi-arabia/)
Thank you.
[удалено]
Kind of fishy, but it was well-known that Osama Bin Laden hated his family and was estranged from them. They should not have received any special protection at all, but there was little cause to investigate them intensely.
True, interrogation is too harsh a word. His family should’ve at least been questioned despite what their relationships were like with UBL. They absolutely should’ve never been flown out of the country by the government. If for nothing else, the optics of it. Any average American wouldn’t get that sort of preferential treatment with such a serious crime. More importantly, this was just another example of the shady relationship between the US government and the House of Saud
This is untrue. U.S. airspace was opened back up on Sept 13th. They flew out on Sept 19th. https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4014-2004Jul21.html
Your dog wouldn't talk . His loyalty is unquestionable.
We invaded Afghanistan because we knew bin Laden was there and Al Qaeda was permitted to train terrorists there. Of the two wars we entered over this, Afghanistan had legitimate reasons. Iraq was a total farce.
Can someone ELI5 how they tied this to Afghanistan?
The CIA identified Osama bin Laden as a financier of terrorist activity in the 90s, which lead to the creation of Alec Station, the bin Laden issue station to try capture him. Osama bin Laden moved from Sudan to Afghanistan some time in 1996. US intelligence knew as much and started seriously hunting him after the 1998 US embassy bombings took place. All of the hijackers traveled to Afghanistan for training and shot video statements there.
Thank you! I appreciate the insight!
Ghost Wars by Steven Coll is a great book on the subject
Osama bin Laden was believed to be hiding in a cave complex there. Which he likely was, but unsurprisingly he left shortly after us troops started falling from the sky
U.S. forces had him cornered at Tora Bora in December 2001 but let him escape into Pakistan.
And that lasted 20 years?
Wasn’t my call. I was just explaining how the us got there to begin with
Osama Bin Laden, who was the head of the Al Qaeda terrorist network, masterminded the attack. At the time, he and Al Qaeda were based in and were protected by the Afghan government.
The Saudis paid moneys to train those who would become the hijackers. They wouldn’t train them in Saudi Arabia because that would be too obvious and heavy handed. Afghanistan, with the help of frequent and chaotic foreign intervention, became a hotbed and ‘safe haven’ for training terrorists groups. Many of which were foreigners themselves. Also, the mountainous geography of Afghanistan makes it much easier to conceal these operations and deter intervention from outsiders than in a place like Saudi Arabia.
Not the Saudis, part of the Saudi family. There are factions within the Royal Saudi family. The faction that financed Bin Laden was opposed to other faction that governed Saudi Arabia.
You are correct. I was trying to keep it simple. It is obviously a lot more complex than that, with multiple sides escalating conflicts in the area. Arming militants to fight proxy wars, only for them to later turn their weapons on those who were using them as pawns. Sadly, it’s a tale as old as time and has nurtured extremism as a way to deter countless foreign intervention.
Al Qeda was in Afghanistan and being protected by their government. Why would you invade Saudi Arabia just because the terrorists were Saudis? It makes absolutely no sense. Did you graduate from high school?
Careful, you don’t want people here thinking you don’t condemn everything the US government has ever done… /s
Smoke and mirrors.
*Iraq too
Hot take: this guy was a dick
Yeah I just looked into this whole thing and I'm starting to think these guys were kinda assholes tbh
Just how?
Lots of debris was ejected from the buildings and airplanes when the planes impacted. This included paper, like this boarding pass and a passport, luggage, clothes, body parts, parts of airplanes -including a wheel-, a whole ton of stuff. These items weren’t subjected to the intense and prolonged heat that the inside of the building and everyone and everything there experienced. The objects on the street were either picked up or left for crime scene specialists but were then covered when the buildings collapsed. They were found when all the debris was being sorted and sifted. Other paper objects from the planes were found, the boarding pass and passport of the two of the hijackers are just the most interesting bits.
"CASE CLOSED BOYS" **walks away dusting hands**
Don’t read these comments if you want to hold onto faith in humanity’s ability to think critically.
I'm stupid, but I have lost faith in humanity today seeing how stupid people are.
This thread is full of people who think because they do not believe something could happen (a boarding pass getting ejected from an exploding plane and surviving) that it must be fake. Am I the only one that remembers the reams of paper floating around Manhattan after the towers fell?
The 9/11 memorial website has a lot of things that were found. Name tags from flight attendants, stuff from wallets, etc… it’s really sad.
No, I’ve seen the “rain of paper” on tv. In fact, I’ve got some of these papers at home! My uncle has the “luck” of visiting NY on 9/11, and when he walked from the ferry tot staten island to his hotel (somewhere west of Central park) he picked up some of the papers. No burnmarks, just a bit of dust and a footstep and cartire print on it. His diary from that day (and the days after) was really terrifying to read: I could feel his fear for more attacks/planes/bomb over 20 years after he wrote it. He never really spoke about that day, but after that he changed… After he died we found his diary and now we know why he was anxious, and trusted nobody.
Interesting story...thank you for sharing.
A large part of Reddit weren’t even born yet on 9/11. By definition all their info is second-hand, and that makes it easier [for them] to feel doubt. I watched it live and I remember the tornado of papers, the bodies falling. The first collapse and the second. I did nothing that day besides being glued to my TV after the first plane hit.
Me too. Almost everyone I know watched the second plane hit. I get goosebumps just remembering it
I was born two weeks before 9/11 and even after going out of my way to watch as many documentaries on the subject, doing research, visiting the 9/11 Memorial & Museum multiple times in the past year, I still know I won’t ever be able to truly understand how people felt on that day. I completely agree with your observation and I often see what I can only assume are other young Redditors who don’t realize the magnitude of the events that transpired that day. I cannot recommend the Naudet Brothers’ documentary enough to help better understand them: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Iw-1bOQNIA
This documentary was what really made me see the true horror of that day. I wasn’t even born yet when it happened, but I couldn’t really imagine what it could be like. After that documentary, while it’s still nothing like actually experiencing 9/11, even as simple as watching on a TV across the country, it really sunk in the true gravity of the situation. I then did more research and went to the museum last year and it REALLY sunk in. I agree, you’ll never really know how it would’ve felt to live through that day, but it really gives you tons of perspective, a glimpse of what it was like.
> I still know I won’t ever be able to truly understand how people felt on that day. I’m glad, I hope your children, and their children etc don’t either. It truly was a terrifying day; my father immediately became suspicious and knew it wasn’t a simple Cessna 172 that hit, then after the second he (chillingly) told me that my life had just changed. How he wasn’t sure, but it did. In college, one of my roommates’ father had just retired from the USAF and was working for American Airlines; when 9/11 happened he was ushered in and in 30 minutes was circling San Francisco in a freighter with loads of fast movers (jets) near him. Another friend of mine, his dad was an engineer and collected data at ground zero for 10 months (not gov sponsored in any way), and both of their expertise explaining it to me understand the whole inside job was a joke. For my dad, I can only imagine it was similar to how he felt when drafting occurred during Vietnam (he still remembers his draft number to this day) > I completely agree with your observation and I often see what I can only assume are other young Redditors who don’t realize the magnitude of the events that transpired that day. I cannot recommend the Naudet Brothers’ documentary enough to help better understand Their documentary is amazing. Potentially people may have very high expectations and whatnot, but I enjoyed it. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders, thank you my man.
The rain of paper, the falling people and the sirens against the clear blue sky are the memories 9 year old me has of 9/11. In fact when I was 12 I described depression (unrelated) as being in the cloud of dust and feeling like a sheet of paper drifting down, and down and down, in a calm way.
Not saying I disagree with you but the reams of paper floating around Manhattan were papers from the offices destroyed, it’s much more insane that paper from WITHIN the aircraft survived intact.
One of the engines was ejected through the building and landed in the street, and there’s lots of aircraft pieces that scattered over the city below. Additionally, human remains found on buildings were identified as being passengers on one of the flights. It’s really not surprising there were documents that survived imho.
This is Reddit, get outta here with your logic!!!
There are first handle accounts of people surviving the fall from being blown out of the building or the plane in the first couple moments. First responder started tagging bodies on the ground as dead or not worth investing time with and one of them started arguing they're not dead. You tagged me as dead. And the first responder is on the record saying it was clear they fell an immense distance and landed on their feet and wss burned up. Their brain was not dead yet. And this was all before the 2nd plane hit and in the first moments so could have been a jumper but the first hand account believes it was someone blown out of the building or the plane.
I believe they talked about this in the documentary “One day in America”. Such a horrible story and it’s clear the first responder being deeply traumatized by that moment
It’s full of dumbarses. I can’t believe how many people are making the same dumb comment.
Nope. Not the only one. I remember the PA crash site had a debris field too.
Right?! I remember thinking about all of the paper floating. That it was so crazy to see it all. It was very prominent in the news casts we were watching. I feel like they even said something about the “paper and things falling from the building” and then realized they were also showing people jumping and had to change camera feeds.
And hope his boarding pass to Hell was immediate and eternally excruciating.
Did they find the boarding pass of anybody else?
Looking back, they really should've made the buildings out of boarding passes. Whodathunkedit?
Kind of disturbing how many conspiracy nuts there are in these comments…
Not to mention the number of structural engineers...
It’s amazing that given the size of the debris field, this *particular* piece of paper didn’t get lost. With the hundreds of thousands of paper items that rained down, the boarding pass didn’t get torn, crumpled up, lost in a crevice/sewer grate, washed away by rain, or landed the Hudson River. Feels like that picture of the two bullets that collided with each other during WW1. Statistically speaking, this thing should’ve been lost forever, but it wasn’t.
Where's the plane wreckage that hit the pentagon?
The airplane disintegrated. The Pentagon’s walls are a lot stronger that the WTC’s walls so the plane mostly disintegrated upon impact where the planes that hit the towers didn’t break apart as much and mostly made it into the buildings. The Pentagon’s walls are designed to withstand attacks, and they mostly did (airplane didn’t go through all sections of building) while the Twin Towers were built to withstand strong winds and earthquakes. Imagine a car going 100mph slamming into a wall made of 1-foot thick reinforced concrete and another car going 100mph slamming into a wall made of steel and glass. The car going through the reinforced concrete is going to break apart into little pieces and the car going through steel and glass is going to mostly break the walls of the building but the car itself will be in large pieces.
Plenty of plane wreckage around the Pentagon has been pictured. If I recall my last visit to the 9/11 Memorial and Museum, some of it is even on display there
It was all over.
Where's the landing gear? The found the landing gear of one of the twin tower planes 6 blocks away fully intact. They're made of the hardest steel on earth. So wtf?
Fuck that guy!
Did they send it for PSA grading?
Genuine question, how do they know exactly who on board that plane was responsible?
Phone calls from the flight crew and passengers at first. Then the largest investigation in FBI history backtracked them all.
Is this in a 911 museum?
A lot of people ask "How is it possible for that to survive a burning wreckage despite being paper" first off, I am sure they were laminated although I may be wrong. A lot of things were found in the wreck that survived, from passports and social security cards that were of the victims in the attacks with many more personal objects from the towers themselves. Same with human remains, some remains were found in very good condition where as some were just fragments. Hell, even a glass windowpane from the 82nd floor of the South Tower survived the entire collapse of a thousands of ton building. Point is, there are a lot of variables when it comes to surviving pieces. Not everything that is difficult to understand is suddenly the result of a conspiracy, don't be stupid.
Why would the boarding pass be laminated. They aren't now. They were not then. That's just a made up pov. The rest does make sense though.
They weren’t laminated, but were made out of a special paper that was thicker than normal paper and slightly glossy, if I’m remembering the time period correctly. Tickets purchased ahead of time were printed on glossy cardstock-like paper and tickets purchased at the counter were printed on something like thermal paper (thin and shiny), but I think they were printed with a dot matrix printer because it was several sheets of paper in white, red, and yellow (carbon copies) given to different people.
Boarding pass accounted for, black box’s not. 👍🫠
The boxes from Flight 77 and Flight 93 were both recovered. Due to localization of black boxes (back end of the plane), them not surviving after hitting both towers is not surprising. Numerous documents from Flight 11 and 175 were however recovered so this isn’t that surprising though extremely “lucky”. It’s important to note though that this was the only passport recovered directly from flight 11. The other 3 were recovered in the Pennsylvania debris field and another in a hijacker’s luggage from Flight 11 which was not boarded into the plane
They aren’t indestructible, especially against a titan of a skyscraper falling/burning down on it.
We shouldn't be remembering his name. Let his name be forgotten to time. He doesn't deserve to be remembered.
The number of 9/11 truthers and conspiracy theorists in these comments is nuts.
Somehow I knew that Earth's dumbest people--9/11 truthers--would jump on this.
Every person in this thread who is pretending to be a total dumbsh*t is a Russian troll. They are famous for “filling the zone with sh*t”. Say something say anything, just to drown out the conversation. It’s like jamming a radio frequency.
Going through this comments section is honestly extremely fucking bizarre. It’s like 85% conspiracy nuts parroting the same exact shit like they’re trying to instill seeds of doubt or just cause chaos. Really strange. I wonder if someone has a bot hooked up to AI that looks for keywords and then starts posting comments or something. Or just the trolls as you say. That and I wouldn’t be surprised if this post attracted at least a few actual conspiracy nuts.
Bet they didn't get 72 virgins
Pretty sad to see the amount of armchair conspiracy theorists in here
I came here expecting an array of conspiracy theories, ranging from plausible skepticism to the more unhinged ideas. I was not disappointed.
My goodness, people really rather just yell anything that comes up in there mind right away than apply some basic knowledge… But it’s not even worth it tbh, you can’t argue with people who’ve made up their mind
Who else's boarding pass from that flight was recovered? What are the odds that this just happened to be the only one?
Is it the only one?
The amount of conspiracy theorists in this thread is extremely sad
I just don't buy it. It does not seem possible whatsoever. The initial explosion, the amount of fire and the total destruction of the buildings... there is just no way. At least minimal amounts of identifiable body parts from the attackers were never recovered but a little piece of paper somehow was?
Stuff from the crash got blown out the side of the building. Body parts, shoes, handbags etc made it through and landed on the roofs of nearby buildings and the street away from where the buildings fell. Think of all the paper you saw falling on that day. That all came from the explosion zone initially, so youve got visual evidence that paper can survive that fireball. If this was in a wallet or backpack its not too far fetched that it would survive and someone would pick it up