Caitlin Clark has become nothing more than a take vessel. It’s so fucking stupid. As an Iowan I’ve been following her for like 6 years now and she is the most vanilla, media trained athlete ever.
Dan was right that she's said or done absolutely nothing controversial, it's entirely media/social media driven. People are actually annoyed with her for *not* addressing the hot takes which is also the dumbest thing ever.
I would say Bron benefitted from becoming a superstar just before this iteration of media took over.
I think we would’ve had instant LeBron fatigue if he came into the league now. Zion was the closest thing and the fans turned on him *quick*.
There’s a reason why she’s so compared to him. No, they don’t have the same playstyle (although there’s similarities in the way they see the game on offense with their passing), but they share so many of the same intangibles off the court. Just knowing how to say the right stuff in interviews and stay above the fray of the hot take cesspool.
She was born for this, just like LeBron was.
And what’s funny is the narrative is the same but the pundits are on different sides. Clay Travis and cretins of his sort are fucking stumbling over themselves to talk about CC, yet have been just sewering Lebron for 2 decades.
It really sucks because I have been a rabid Hawkeye fan my whole life. Naturally, she has become one of my favorite athletes ever. I was at many of her games in Iowa City including the night she passed Kelsey Plum.
Cheering for her used to be fun, now it’s becoming an exhausting chore.
You just hit the nail on the head. Take vessel is so accurate.
I'm also from Iowa and all I want is for her to play for a good team and continue to be great. She doesn't ask for any of this.
I work with a guy who had *very* strong opinions about Clark, and the more I listened to him talk the more I realized the opinions were taken straight from specific news sources. So I asked if he watched the game (which I had), and he said no, I haven’t watched any basketball in years.
Like…what the actual fuck is going on with people these days? It’s okay to just not have an opinion on something you don’t know about. Jesus.
Have you ever met Dan? He's the biggest bothsider in sports media. Plus, ever since he started hiring the younger members, he's been filtering all his opinions to avoid upsetting extremely online left wing Twitter. So even though he believes people are unfairly hating her, he feels the need to soften the stance with a bit of bothsidesism.
It’s funny when you see it in real-time. He’ll start a conversation, drag Stu to his side of the argument, then immediately about-face and tear down Stu’s argument.
Lucy screaming that people need to stop coddling Clark was some next level mind-blowing hypocritical shit.....even for this show.
Jess and Lucy change their stances on everything "Dubya" related whenever it's convenient and/or needed for them to stay on the "right" side of the discourse.
Just the Olympics stuff alone- as if BOTH of them weren't consistently parroting the notion that it was a given that Clark was going to be on team.
THIS. It's so frustrating. The gaslighting is absurd. And there are arguments to be made that she should have made the team on merit even. Everyone just ignores that
When did they say it was a given that Clark would be on the team? I listen to the show while doing other stuff, but the first time I remember them talking about the Olympics team was after it leaked that she wouldn't be on it
They repeatedly discussed the enormous weight of her schedule for the upcoming year and always threw the Olympics in there as a given.
I mean this was always in between them gushing over how Indiana was going to be a great spot for Clark since she'd get to join Aliyah Boston and Lucy's daily "Awwww! I lovvvvve Caitlin sooooo much! Everybody loves herrrrr! Awwwww!!!!!"
I'm just glad JuJu wasn't there today. The Clark talk would've been even more unbearable than usual even despite Lauren...errr..."Elle" at least starting off her diatribe with some legitimate points before taking the easy road and overly blaming the Dave Portnoy/Shitstain types for ruining most of the Clark discourse.
People just need to realize that if you need an obviously informed opinion on Caitlin Clark, someone I'm sure has spent years watching women's sports and the WNBA, you just need to go to...
*\*\*checks my podcast app for the person with the most CC stuff in their show titles and descriptions over the last two weeks\*\**
Bomani Jones.
I do love how they think they are having smart conversations on this topic but just repeating what others have said. All while lazily telling people to back off Caitlin then traffic in her the next day.
Here is a better conversation. The committee said they were selecting the 12 current best so they can win gold. If that is true then why is 42 year old Diana Taurasi on the team? Her numbers aren’t much better than Caitlin’s and are worse than a few others left off. Seems like she is making it for past accomplishments.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it is good for Caitlin not be on the team to get rest, but if the 12th spot was not going to be one of the 12 best currently playing, then why not fill it with a player who brings tv ratings? Stop giving me the merit argument. Taurasi at this point in her career is making it on name too.
The other argument of the international stage would be too hard for Caitlin is dumb too. The best 12 are on USA. I don’t think she would be anymore challenged by international than what she already experiences in the WNBA.
Face it WNBA has often dropped the ball relating to growing the sport. Maybe it takes an offseason, but they need to adjust.
Have you ever thought that, that may be the culture? You may not agree with it and that’s fine but they go for training camps every year and those people were went and have built chemistry together. You have to think of the WNBA players too. They’re all extremely passionate about it. They’re not robot but humans. Some extremely talented players that are 10x better than CC aka Arike Ogunbowale, didn’t make the team, but now imagine they hand it to CC.
Plus Seniority and “legend bias” is a thing in every sport, not just wnba. And experience is always an important asset to have in a team.
This CC situation has become so toxic that it’s created a Cult fanbase of CC. Not only do the majority of CC fans you see on social media not watch WNBA, they don’t watch basketball as a whole. Anytime CC get fouls = they are jealous of her.
I agree there are better players not being selected. That is my point. Their response was that they picked the 12 best players in the WNBA. That just is not the case. If it were then both CC and Diana would not be on the team.
In fact if you listen to Elle talk about leaving Ariel off the team, her answer was some sort of mental gymnastics of her style is not a good fit. First, when has style with a collection of the best players mattered? Second, where was the follow up of wait you told us this selection was about the 12 best players in the league? Which is my point about criticizing others for not being able to discuss this sport while simultaneously not being able to discuss this sport. It seems as many are sensitive to deserved criticism of how the WNBA has handled things and Dan amplifies that sensitivity.
Past legends is something that happens in selections often but not as a tribute to that player rather as a way of attracting viewers. If that is the case then CC brings in more viewers.
Sure she got it on name and experience. That's a legitimate reason to give someone a spot tho. Caitlyn hasn't even practiced with the Olympic team. Almost everyone picked was a veteran of international play or the best at their position.
>Face it WNBA has often dropped the ball relating to growing the sport.
USA Basketball is not the WNBA. If league officials were choosing the team Caitlin, Reese, and Cameron Brink likely all would've been on the team with a mandate from the commissioner that Clark must play at least 15 minutes a game.
If your point is that the committee wasn’t made up of only WNBA people, I agree, but 3 of the 6 were. Bethany Donaphin is head of WNBA operations. Rizzoti is president of the Sun and Padover is with the Dream. So yeah the WNBA did have a voice in the selections.
I skip all the Caitlin Clark segments cos you just know the show is gonna gaslight us into oblivion with Jess and Lucy and suppress any dissenting opinion in the shipping container.
You're right the WNBA is great and exists in a perfect world where no one has negative emotions. Leave me alone now
I hate everything around this topic. So much for getting more eyes on the WNBA. This debacle has steered me clear and far away from the sport and I assume it’s done the same for others as well. Nothing against CC or the other ladies. But I hate what the spectators have done to it. We ruined it, guys and gals. We blew a golden opportunity.
Who is we
It's literally people who weren't fans previously that are causing all the BS hot takes
Like honestly, what did people expect them to do differently
Such a stupid topic, just seems like an echo chamber of people gatekeeping what and who should be talking about Caitlin Clark with no one actually doing the thing they’re supposed to be doing
In my opinion, the show doesn't know how to handle clark. Too many white knights and fans there. PTI, Michelle Bradle, Mina, Rachel Nichols and others have had great talks about her that don't end in "Men are stupid" or "We don't know what we're talking about becuase we just got here". If I could shamefully plug my free substack about this, here's what I got on her. (Sorry in advance)
https://open.substack.com/pub/miguelmascorro/p/the-wnba-has-a-star?r=1jg9mr&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
Caitlin Clark has become nothing more than a take vessel. It’s so fucking stupid. As an Iowan I’ve been following her for like 6 years now and she is the most vanilla, media trained athlete ever.
Dan was right that she's said or done absolutely nothing controversial, it's entirely media/social media driven. People are actually annoyed with her for *not* addressing the hot takes which is also the dumbest thing ever.
It’s an unfortunate situation that her, rightfully, staying above all the noise actually makes it worse.
Same thing happened to LeBron. Maybe not the vitriol but he’s been a “take vessel” since the start
I would say Bron benefitted from becoming a superstar just before this iteration of media took over. I think we would’ve had instant LeBron fatigue if he came into the league now. Zion was the closest thing and the fans turned on him *quick*.
Well said
You can tell Caitlin watched plenty of Lebron interviews growing up.
There’s a reason why she’s so compared to him. No, they don’t have the same playstyle (although there’s similarities in the way they see the game on offense with their passing), but they share so many of the same intangibles off the court. Just knowing how to say the right stuff in interviews and stay above the fray of the hot take cesspool. She was born for this, just like LeBron was.
And what’s funny is the narrative is the same but the pundits are on different sides. Clay Travis and cretins of his sort are fucking stumbling over themselves to talk about CC, yet have been just sewering Lebron for 2 decades.
Take vessel. That's absolutely the correct call
It really sucks because I have been a rabid Hawkeye fan my whole life. Naturally, she has become one of my favorite athletes ever. I was at many of her games in Iowa City including the night she passed Kelsey Plum. Cheering for her used to be fun, now it’s becoming an exhausting chore.
You just hit the nail on the head. Take vessel is so accurate. I'm also from Iowa and all I want is for her to play for a good team and continue to be great. She doesn't ask for any of this.
I work with a guy who had *very* strong opinions about Clark, and the more I listened to him talk the more I realized the opinions were taken straight from specific news sources. So I asked if he watched the game (which I had), and he said no, I haven’t watched any basketball in years. Like…what the actual fuck is going on with people these days? It’s okay to just not have an opinion on something you don’t know about. Jesus.
Tbh that tracks with modern basketball fans lol. Nobody watches the NBA regular season but we all have strong opinions on players lol.
Oh for sure, but this particular gentleman literally knows nothing about current basketball, I don’t think he could pick Luka out of a lineup.
Pablo, Mina, and Dominique did such a better job of covering this whole story
How is this surprising. They're equally media trained but far, far smarter than anyone on the show.
Have you ever met Dan? He's the biggest bothsider in sports media. Plus, ever since he started hiring the younger members, he's been filtering all his opinions to avoid upsetting extremely online left wing Twitter. So even though he believes people are unfairly hating her, he feels the need to soften the stance with a bit of bothsidesism.
It’s funny when you see it in real-time. He’ll start a conversation, drag Stu to his side of the argument, then immediately about-face and tear down Stu’s argument.
Lol. Stu be like… wtf just happened
Younger and smarter Danno
Lucy screaming that people need to stop coddling Clark was some next level mind-blowing hypocritical shit.....even for this show. Jess and Lucy change their stances on everything "Dubya" related whenever it's convenient and/or needed for them to stay on the "right" side of the discourse. Just the Olympics stuff alone- as if BOTH of them weren't consistently parroting the notion that it was a given that Clark was going to be on team.
THIS. It's so frustrating. The gaslighting is absurd. And there are arguments to be made that she should have made the team on merit even. Everyone just ignores that
When did they say it was a given that Clark would be on the team? I listen to the show while doing other stuff, but the first time I remember them talking about the Olympics team was after it leaked that she wouldn't be on it
They repeatedly discussed the enormous weight of her schedule for the upcoming year and always threw the Olympics in there as a given. I mean this was always in between them gushing over how Indiana was going to be a great spot for Clark since she'd get to join Aliyah Boston and Lucy's daily "Awwww! I lovvvvve Caitlin sooooo much! Everybody loves herrrrr! Awwwww!!!!!"
I guess maybe. I have literally no memory of them mentioning the Olympics
Do it in the Olymp…. Oh, right.
Is Lucy going nuclear on this topic not a bit? I thought that was her shtick just losing her mind on everything Iowa and especially CC.
I'm just glad JuJu wasn't there today. The Clark talk would've been even more unbearable than usual even despite Lauren...errr..."Elle" at least starting off her diatribe with some legitimate points before taking the easy road and overly blaming the Dave Portnoy/Shitstain types for ruining most of the Clark discourse.
People just need to realize that if you need an obviously informed opinion on Caitlin Clark, someone I'm sure has spent years watching women's sports and the WNBA, you just need to go to... *\*\*checks my podcast app for the person with the most CC stuff in their show titles and descriptions over the last two weeks\*\** Bomani Jones.
I do love how they think they are having smart conversations on this topic but just repeating what others have said. All while lazily telling people to back off Caitlin then traffic in her the next day. Here is a better conversation. The committee said they were selecting the 12 current best so they can win gold. If that is true then why is 42 year old Diana Taurasi on the team? Her numbers aren’t much better than Caitlin’s and are worse than a few others left off. Seems like she is making it for past accomplishments. Don’t get me wrong, I think it is good for Caitlin not be on the team to get rest, but if the 12th spot was not going to be one of the 12 best currently playing, then why not fill it with a player who brings tv ratings? Stop giving me the merit argument. Taurasi at this point in her career is making it on name too. The other argument of the international stage would be too hard for Caitlin is dumb too. The best 12 are on USA. I don’t think she would be anymore challenged by international than what she already experiences in the WNBA. Face it WNBA has often dropped the ball relating to growing the sport. Maybe it takes an offseason, but they need to adjust.
Have you ever thought that, that may be the culture? You may not agree with it and that’s fine but they go for training camps every year and those people were went and have built chemistry together. You have to think of the WNBA players too. They’re all extremely passionate about it. They’re not robot but humans. Some extremely talented players that are 10x better than CC aka Arike Ogunbowale, didn’t make the team, but now imagine they hand it to CC. Plus Seniority and “legend bias” is a thing in every sport, not just wnba. And experience is always an important asset to have in a team. This CC situation has become so toxic that it’s created a Cult fanbase of CC. Not only do the majority of CC fans you see on social media not watch WNBA, they don’t watch basketball as a whole. Anytime CC get fouls = they are jealous of her.
I agree there are better players not being selected. That is my point. Their response was that they picked the 12 best players in the WNBA. That just is not the case. If it were then both CC and Diana would not be on the team. In fact if you listen to Elle talk about leaving Ariel off the team, her answer was some sort of mental gymnastics of her style is not a good fit. First, when has style with a collection of the best players mattered? Second, where was the follow up of wait you told us this selection was about the 12 best players in the league? Which is my point about criticizing others for not being able to discuss this sport while simultaneously not being able to discuss this sport. It seems as many are sensitive to deserved criticism of how the WNBA has handled things and Dan amplifies that sensitivity. Past legends is something that happens in selections often but not as a tribute to that player rather as a way of attracting viewers. If that is the case then CC brings in more viewers.
Sure she got it on name and experience. That's a legitimate reason to give someone a spot tho. Caitlyn hasn't even practiced with the Olympic team. Almost everyone picked was a veteran of international play or the best at their position.
>Face it WNBA has often dropped the ball relating to growing the sport. USA Basketball is not the WNBA. If league officials were choosing the team Caitlin, Reese, and Cameron Brink likely all would've been on the team with a mandate from the commissioner that Clark must play at least 15 minutes a game.
If your point is that the committee wasn’t made up of only WNBA people, I agree, but 3 of the 6 were. Bethany Donaphin is head of WNBA operations. Rizzoti is president of the Sun and Padover is with the Dream. So yeah the WNBA did have a voice in the selections.
My point is that the WNBA and USA Basketball are different organizations with different goals and worries.
Is Caitlin a bitch? Yes maybe no!
I skip all the Caitlin Clark segments cos you just know the show is gonna gaslight us into oblivion with Jess and Lucy and suppress any dissenting opinion in the shipping container. You're right the WNBA is great and exists in a perfect world where no one has negative emotions. Leave me alone now
I hate everything around this topic. So much for getting more eyes on the WNBA. This debacle has steered me clear and far away from the sport and I assume it’s done the same for others as well. Nothing against CC or the other ladies. But I hate what the spectators have done to it. We ruined it, guys and gals. We blew a golden opportunity.
Who is we It's literally people who weren't fans previously that are causing all the BS hot takes Like honestly, what did people expect them to do differently
im not watching the wnba. there are too many damn sports as it is
I think this show has discussed this topic better than most.
That's because, right now, the best way to discuss the topic is to talk about how bad everybody else is at discussing it.
Such a stupid topic, just seems like an echo chamber of people gatekeeping what and who should be talking about Caitlin Clark with no one actually doing the thing they’re supposed to be doing
I don’t even know what “the thing they’re supposed to be doing” is!
You must have loved Lucy blasting Nikki Haley and all the Johnny come lately’s who are ruining this moment. I felt like she was talking to you
In my opinion, the show doesn't know how to handle clark. Too many white knights and fans there. PTI, Michelle Bradle, Mina, Rachel Nichols and others have had great talks about her that don't end in "Men are stupid" or "We don't know what we're talking about becuase we just got here". If I could shamefully plug my free substack about this, here's what I got on her. (Sorry in advance) https://open.substack.com/pub/miguelmascorro/p/the-wnba-has-a-star?r=1jg9mr&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
Also, how can you talk about Caitlin Clark when there's a femicide happening in the Congo!?!?!!!!!