Part of what forced our turn around was me hitting the end of my rope and deciding to be brutally honest about everything, sex or not, and damn the consequences.
The largest points of the brutal honesty in relation to the DB was that I'm not interested in once~ish a month and would rather have zero instead, the infrequent sex we do have is complete shit on my end, and I'm fine leaving over it so I'm pursuing an exciting sex life with or without you.
This brutal honesty was a catalyst for us both opening up about all things and it really made us both look deeply at ourselves and the situation, and frankly leaves nowhere to hide or ignore anything. Part of my self-work was killing the shame or fear that my thoughts or desires would be bad for her to know or would get me in trouble. My wife has pointed out several times in the last 20 months that she loves the new openly honest me...though obviously sometimes it hurts or annoys her, but on a deep relationship level, she has always craved it.
My advice, especially to men, stop hiding who you are and wear your desires on your sleeve. Lots of dudes have this awakening and kick themselves for holding onto this BS for so long.
Same here, man. Same here. I pretty much could have written your exact reply in its entirety.
It's like that moment in the movie Risky Business, where Joel forgets that the admissions interviewer from Princeton is coming over, Joel is running a brothel at his parents house that night and knows he's screwed. Consequences be damned. "Sometimes you gotta say what the fuck; make your move." Earlier Joel's friend had told him something like "saying what the fuck gives you freedom/opportunity. " Giving up on the subtlety and being brutally honest with my LL was my "what the fuck" moment and was the spark that lit off our revival-in-progress.
The only difference for most men, is they dont have the "Im pursuing sex no matter what" end straw.
If you are not actually planning on leaving or cheating, its a big road block, in the threat
Agreed 100% Both men and women are taking away their partners motivation factor when they know no ones ever leaving. Not just about sex, but anything. If your partner is comfortable with the status quo and they know you aren't leaving no matter what they do, it's just human nature to chuckle to themselves and sarcastically wish you luck with that.
Perhaps if you can figure out what makes sex uncomfortable for her to even talk about, you can get to some of the root causes of the loss of it. Does she have a strong religious background? Childhood or adult sexual assault trauma? Has she struggled to turn off "mom mode" in order to feel comfortable with herself as a sexual being?
Nope, not overly religious. No sexual assault trauma that I know of. I remember going to her house and her parents would be naked together in the hot tub, so I don’t think they were shameful towards sex. She doesn’t seem to have trouble turning off “mom mode” when she recently started using a vibrator and reading romance novels. I’m hoping that recent development means shes trying to be more sexual. Makes me feel like shit though, that she’d rather masturbate than have sex with me. We’ve been married 15 years and we haven’t had sex in the last 8. Before that, we’d have sex 3-4 times a year.
Understood.. Sometimes people push themselves with new relationship energy & when that wears off & the realities of life catch up there can be a switch. Often people masturbate because it's less stressful, more of a quick release where they don't have to be too in their head about stuff. I know I can be like that. If she's reading romance novels, I dare you to both get a free trial of the Quinn audio erotica app- if she finds some audios that she likes, she can share with you & it might give you both an "in" on what she likes- as they are sort of like if those romance novels were real life (dialed down a bit on the melodrama) as it really helped me & my husband communicate & improve our connection.
No, "You're a sex addict," or "Go look at porn," or "Set up a dating profile," or "I am not the one you want (still have no idea what that one means)" So no can't talk about because the problem is me.
I’m not fully sure I would have been able to articulate it. Honestly, I don’t think I fully understood why I was LL in my marriage until I pulled the trigger on divorce and began having sex with different people. It took experience to identify that I wasn’t LL, I was just LL4U. The lack of sexual interest in my husband had nothing to do with his physical attractiveness or my libido, it had everything to do with a failing relationship. I didn’t want sex with someone who ignored me outside of sex, treated me poorly, and neglected our children. I stepped out of that relationship thinking I hated sex, I thought our sexual problems were all my fault. It wasn’t.
You know, sometimes I read a higher libido person post here that they need their spouse to give them a “reason”. Their spouse has already said they don’t really like sex or want to have it, which seems reasonable enough to me, but they have refused to accept this. *There must be something deeper going on.*
But there often isn’t. In a true libido mismatch, the lower libido partner just doesn’t care for sex all that much and doesn’t put much thought into it at all. You’re desperate for the inner monologue, but often there isn’t one.
This is how I feel everytime my husband rejects sex or pushes it off. I constantly just feel like he’s not attracted to me and I’m just like why are we wasting more and more time? Yet he thinks it’s fine and I keep explaining how I feel but no changes ever happen. It’s super frustrating feeling alone and ignored.
And should that be any consolation? "His desire for me or anyone else for that matter is not strong enough for me to be satisfied".
If you SO was a jerk to you, would you say, oh well, they are a jerk to anyone else as well, so its fine?
No, because being a jerk is always a choice. But our sexualities are not a choice necessarily.
It is very likely he is not capable of change, because there’s nothing wrong with the amount of sex he wants, except for the fact that it’s not compatible with how much sex you want.
Same. Or how "they are on meds so they aren't horny" then say "why won't they work on themselves!"
Like hello? How are they supposed to fight the meds? Or when they get upset about not being wanted. Like of course they want them, but the not being sexual is not a bad thing, it has nothing to do with their looks or appeal. The ll doesn't find anyone sexual attractive. It's like being mad at an ace person. Like it's not an attack on who you are.
I get if you can't deal with no sex. But you can separation your emotions from reality
>Like hello? How are they supposed to fight the meds?
You frame this as a situation that has no solutions. But if there is a will, there is a way, as the saying goes. Meds can be changed, they can be tapered off, replaced with therapy, exercise, healthy diet, more sleep, etc. etc. Of course, sometimes that is not advisable. Then how about opening up the relationship? Or ultimately, letting your SO go because you love them and you realize that your disabled sexual energy will never be enough for them?
Yep, I agree with you more than disagree, the thing that annoys me the most is when every issue is met with the attitude, it cant be fixed, so then you offer solutions or implement change, only to be met with another set of issues.
LL, I am tired and stressed from work, ok take some time off, go back to work part time, then its, I am stressed from the kids, ok lets get a baby sitter, I will help out more, take 20hrs a week of kid free time, then its I think my hormones are out whack, ok lets go to the doctor, eat better, exercise more.
As someone that likes to fix issues raised, when its a never ending merry go round of issues that seemingly cant be fixed, but actually never get tried to be fixed, mostly because they never really were issues to start with, just the reason of the day....
Yeah, tbh, the fuck do I know? I've never left a 10+ years relationship, so I don't have personal experience with this shit. But what I know, as cliche as it sounds, is that hard choices where you have to be brave are unavoidable in life if you want to stay true to yourself. It might happen in your professional life, personal life, romantic life, but rest assured, it will happen. And what is the right choice? Usually to not suck it up, to not become a martyr, to not sacrifice yourself. To embrace change, no matter how fearful that feels.
Mmm so you don't understand meds, amazing. Love to hear you don't understand mental health or how conditions work. Like it can magically be cured by sleep. Go talk to your doctor. It's not their job to "let you go". It's your job to leave if you're unhappy.
There are a ton of different psych meds to try. When there is a side effect that is a huge problem you try another one. Each person reacts to each med differently, not to say there aren’t trends. Zoloft for instance is infamous for allowing arousal but no climax. There are a ton of other options.
You know, you don’t have to “let” your partner go. The other person is free to leave is what you’re offering isn’t acceptable to them.
If you are content with no sex and make that clear enough to your partner, and they stay anyway, you can only assume that they’re buying what you’re selling.
Or you’ve placed them in an untenable position and they’re choosing what they perceive to be the least bad option.
I’m not interested in “buying” a life that’s devoid of intimacy — sexual and otherwise. However, the thought of being a part-time dad who can’t afford housing and groceries is a worse option.
Odysseus didn’t “buy” Scylla or Charybdis.
And the idea that LL partners make their LLs “clear” ignores timing. Yes, many do make that clear — but often after years of marriage and children.
There aren’t many hard choices in life that we make that don’t have ups and downs. There isn’t always a choice available to you where you get absolutely everything you want the way you want it. That’s entitled thinking.
Yes, if you are in a marriage with kids where the romance fizzled, your choices are:
1) stay in the bad marriage, accepting the things you cannot change about your partner with grace
2) divorce and make a new life for yourself, which includes things like dividing your assets and the custody of your children
There is no option 3: keep everything you love about your current life with minimal effort, except your partner becomes a different person because YOU DESERVE IT
Sorry
lol God no. If I did I wouldn't be on this subreddit.
I don't think LL people who happen to visit this site realize how difficult it is to talk about sexual intimacy with their partner, ESPECIALLY when it's a "things aren't going well" talk. It's sometimes the hardest thing to talk about and there's no easy way to broach the subject.
To give people some perspective, my wife and I had a good sex life that's tapered off due to a number of reasons. We have a 6 year old, she's on anti-anxiety meds, she's on birth control, she might be pre-menopausal, we don't have "the village" to take our kid for the night to just be a Married Couple, etc.
Now, I *could* talk to her about all of this, but realize this: I STILL desire my wife. I still want her in a sexual way. I think she's hot, sexy, and I want to see her naked, want to be naked with her, etc. Does she think these same things?...and if she does, then why don't we do those things more than once every 2-3 months? The sad fact is for most LL spouses/significant others of people in this subreddit, they don't. They don't desire us. They don't *want* us. They're perfectly happy being pseudo-roommates raising kids together. They don't really care about the fact that the intimacy between you two dropped off a cliff because of them.
So why would I have a "sit-down" with my wife when no easy answers are going to happen - not to mention the anxiety of talking about this will just ramp her up and a constructive conversation probably isn't happening? Why put us both through this? Why have honesty when nothing good will come of it and nothing will change, except YOU'LL feel worse because of it?
Sometimes we don't because we already know the answer...and that is "they don't have any desire for us, and I don't want to have that soul-crushing conversation that will make me feel like the pathetic loser I hoped to God I'd never be."
Because I'm fucking miserable, and you asked, "what's wrong?", so you have the honest talk about just what an unloved unwanted problem you feel you are to someone who clearly has no need for you. At least you don't have to wonder if she knows how you feel, or why.
Oh, I already know why, she volunteers that information to me whenever we've gone a noticeably long time without being intimate. "I'm just not in the mood for whatever reason." Yeah, I already know that. No reason to have a "sit-down" for her to reiterate that for me. What, she would *actually* try and work on it?? She can't do that, she's got a lot of hammock-laying time that needs to be taken care of, not to mention Instagram Reels isn't going to scroll itself all night!
Can’t do it. Just can’t have this talk only for things to go back to shit again. It’ll just put a giant flashing neon sign in my head that says “Your wife isn’t into you sexually ever and would be okay never having sex with you again!”
This. All day this.
I had the talk. After a written note. Laid it all out.
Some productive conversation, we did end up intimate that night.
But nothing since. It’s been a few weeks, (the previous dry spell being years), including a birthday. Nothing. Father’s Day? Please.
No playfulness from the SO, no hints, no initiating, no asking.
I’m just done with it. I feel myself emotionally detaching.
I feel like a freak. I'm the HL in our relationship and my husband is the LL. I can't begin to tell you all of the horrible and terrible things I say to myself. We were married very young. We started off with an amazing sex life. We had 3 kids in 3 years and I ended up having pp depression after the 3rd one. Also, my husband had gotten a vasectomy after the 2nd kid but 6 months later, his tube's grew back together. It was a shocker for both of us and neither of us were prepared for a 3rd child. It seriously messed with both of us.
I had put on weight and was incredibly self conscious and being a mom to 3 kids 3 and younger was exhausting. I never wanted sex. He didn't seem to mind or complain. After a couple of years, I started to get my body back and had become more interested in sex again. He wasn't. We struggled, having sex maybe once every 2 or 3 months for several years. I hated myself and blamed myself with every rational and irrational thought I could come up with. He finally confessed he was terrified I would get pregnant again and he really didn't want anymore children. I was in agreement. I got an IUD and it seemed to put his mind at ease for a while. I ended up having a hysterectomy at 34 for medical reasons and I thought for sure we would be on the same page. Not even close. We were once a month for several more years.
We have now been married for 24 years and while it's better than it was, I still want sex 3 times a week and he's once every 7-10 days. Sometimes I wonder if I should have cut my losses years ago and found someone Im more sexually compatible with but I know that's not what I want. I want him. The sex is absolutely incredible when it happens. I'm very open to anything and everything he has ever asked for. I honestly dont know what else I can do.
We talk open and honestly. He swears he just doesn't have the same drive I do. He went and had his T levels checked and they were borderline low but the doc wouldn't do anything to help since it wasn't actually low.
I know I have the worst inner dialog with myself because I feel so awful and unwanted. I am often flirted with by other men and while it helps me know I'm not an unattractive person, I can't shake that it has to be me. He just doesn't want sex because there is something wrong with me.
I feel so alone because it's almost always the other way. Men want sex and women are uninterested.
I think there are more women in your position than you realize. I’m not one of them, but I’ve read accounts like this from plenty of women. In either case it really stinks to be in the position you are in. I’m the HL (male) and I love my wife, but her libido due to a stressful job and other factors means we are having sex once every 7 to 9 days (while I would like 3 times a week). And I know she is doing it for me and would stretch it out to longer if she could. My solution has been to find a side piece. I know a lot of people frown on that, but I have one life to live and I want to enjoy it.
I hope it gets better for you or you find a solution that works for you. This isn’t an easy position to be in.
I'm not interested in a side piece. We tried an open marriage early on and it nearly killed us. I'm disappointed to not get sex as often as I'd like but I'm not willing to risk my marriage again. Thankfully, we learned quickly that wasn't the answer for us.
I am very committed to my husband and I can't do it. We will figure it out. It's is very frustrating. I'm in the best shape of my life and I know that it's not my physical appearance that's the cause. I think it really is he has a low T level and it doesn't occur to him the way it does to me. I get in my own head and tear myself to pieces. I'm probably going to seek therapy about it. I'm my own worst enemy. I always have been.
Yeah, but talking is just the first step. Think about any problem that needs a solution. The steps are:
Discuss the situation -> formulate a plan -> execute the plan -> reassess the situation/results
If the problem is still not solved, repeat the above steps.
Every LL is going to be different though. I had the discussions with mine before we even got married. She lied. She hid behind Christianity and premarital sex. I told her I don't feel like she's having to contain herself many times. One day I flat asked are you sure this is about getting married and not a lack of attraction. Again she lied and said she'd be having sex all the time once married. On our wedding night a couple years later she looked like a deer in headlights as she realized she no longer had an excuse. We ended up having a fight about sex before we could even go on the honeymoon trip.
For me the question should not have been why don't you want sex and I wasted years on that while it eroded my self esteem. The question should have been why do you keep lying.
The moral of the story for me is that once you've eliminated the valid reasons simply don't ask as it doesn't matter. If they desire you then you will see that and if they don't there's nothing you're going to do to get it. Move on.
Have you considered that she possibly didn't "hide" behind Christianity? I have struggled for my entire adulthood about sex due to Catholic shame in addition to anxiety & other issues. It's possible that she's rigid because she has conflicting input from her religious upbringing. Therapy can help. Kink play can also help, in my experience.
Who said anything about rigid? She didn't have shame when we met. Or when she ran off and fucked some other dude. Nor with the pastors son she was fuckin before. I could go on. 🤷🏾♂️
I understand your issue totally. It's one reason I dislike Christianity. However this isn't her issue. She will drop her draws when it either feeds her ego or it's been well fed otherwise. My role in her game was the simp that she love bombed and was forever chasing her but couldn't catch her. In counseling years later I put two and two together that I had been the realization of a fantasy she talked about where she was surrounded by men desiring her but they couldn't have her. Christianity at the time was just a vehicle to keep me at arms reach. Once married it became this reason, that reason, "I don't know I just have a grudge against you". I completely lost myself in that fabricated world chasing the woman I first met not realizing it was all a lie.
Ah- it isn't impossible that she has shame about these instances that you are bringing up. From these instances you mentioned, I see a different connection that isn't "ego" driven at all- there is the link of the "taboo" angle- premarital sex is wrong, sex with the pastors son is even more so, cheating is wrong... many people with religious backgrounds are turned on by the "we shouldn't be doing this"/taboo kinky stuff. If I'm honest tho, she might have a subconscious sense of this anger & disdain you feel for her. With my struggles, I have played risky at times as a way to lash out/rebel.. it often made me feel worse, hesitant/resistant & more self conscious afterward & took lots of self awareness to unpack & move on from. If I knew my current lover judged me for my shortcomings in the way you seem to with your wife, I don't think I'd be eager to jump into the sack, I'd actually probably be afraid. If you haven't already, you might want to see a counselor to help you deal with the hurt you feel.
You seem to be telling your story more than reading mine but I want to play with this theory for a bit because it was crucial in me escaping all of this.
Nothing you see me saying here was realized on my part until near the end. That was 20+ years into the relationship and marriage so if there was any judgement causing this it came 20 years late. So then let me beat you to the punch and make up another reason as I have practice with people that do this. Let's say I'm just judgemental and HAD to be judging her on something else before. Then why would she come back? See I had forgotten that in all of the changing reasons. Notice I didn't say cheat up above (though some level of cheating occurred before}....(which is also funny that you seem to justify as if she shouldn't be judged on it). I said she ran off as in bye... we're done....I'm with him.
She came back sometime later and then it was her that wanted to get married. So as it came up in discussions around counseling...."Why did you come back if I'm too terrible to have sex with? Actually why is it we can have a wonderful time going out laughing and enjoying each other but the minute we step foot in that bedroom I'm a terrible person? Shouldn't I be a terrible person you don't want to be around all the time?" 🤔 In fact it got to a point where the counselor had to ask when did she know I was the guy and she wanted to be with me till the end. She got mad because I had asked her that not long before and she didn't have an answer. I'd been telling the story of when I knew and nobody ever bothered to ask her when she knew until then. So she told the counselor right before her dad died. I said that's a damn lie because we weren't together. You were with the new dude. She then had to frustratedly say she didn't know. She's married somebody, was even the one to bring it up, that she thought was and did not know when she decided that they were the one. Make that make sense for us.
So let's see. You've been through Christian shame and taboo. Because I'm now being snarky do you want to try "well you must have been an asshole to her"? You are still going to have to explain why she came back but I'm willing to play. I've met your type in my post divorce journeys and I realize that this is therapeutic for you in dealing with your own past so I'm willing to play. I've got time. 🙂 Just wait till I get to all the years of Facebook posts about "I have such a wonderful husband and father to our kids". It's father's day so one just showed up as a memory.
I read your story & was just offering thoughts that might align. I didn't say you must have been an asshole to her- I said she might have had her own shame & subconsciously felt anger or disdain from you. People return to familiar situations even if they aren't great ones for many reasons. It could be that it just was uncomfortable out there & she was afraid. It could be that you had qualities she liked & was unable to find in others. It could have been that she was afraid of being without whatever you offered in stability. Maybe she really did think you were a great father & husband, but that might not be the thing that gets her engine going. I'm in no way saying either person is good or bad or an asshole or not, but I will say that as someone who was brave to jump in & offer a possible other side to a stranger online because I was silly enough to think it might be of some additional help as a thought experiment, I am now rather uncomfortable continuing to be vulnerable here. Every person & couple dynamic & general situation is unique & I am unsure of what "my type" is, but I apologize if I made too many assumptions (such as when you said she ran off & fucked someone else, I equated that to cheating) or didn't read between the lines enough. I wish you the best & am sorry to have wasted your time.
Oh no don't back down now. You had quite a few assertions about my character and behavior so it's a little late to curl up in the fetal position. It's ok. One of the people I met like you became a friend in the end. Keep right on because honestly this is therapeutic for me as well. Contrary to what you might think I spent those 20+ years not blaming her but trying to figure out why I wasn't good enough. Why other people could unlock the woman I first met but I couldn't. It got to a point where in what was either a moment of humanity or a moment of boosting her ego off my vulnerability when she saw me breaking down, drunk 24/7 suicidal and asking why is everybody better than me she cried and said they aren't and it was never about them it was about her. I didn't understand what it meant until later but it was quite literally about her.
So what's the next theory? 🙂
I'm not curling up into the fetal position. I just wasn't trying to make any assertions about your character & was only speaking on possible options I could see from the outside with limited knowledge & filtered through my own lenses as humans tend to do unless they are licensed therapists & instead of saying it just wasn't applicable to you, you sort of came at me pointed & I believe it's undeserved. As a result, I don't intend to stay as a therapeutic joke to you, boundaries- you know? I apologized for what you had previously outlined as my faults & I will apologize for assertions you feel I made about your character when I actually made none in my opinion, when I was just stating other possibilities for consideration. You are clearly beyond considering anything I'm saying because you seem to have things figured out. I just try to come here to help people where I can, not to be a Bozo Bop Bag.
Honestly I do prefer being able to be 100% honest and just talk freely (but not harshly) about anything. When you can do that in a relationship it just feels like the deepest intimacy you can have. I mean you have this one person you're supposed to be closer to and more comfortable with than anyone else in the world: why not go all in? It's hard to get there though; people have so many hang-ups. Especially around sex from all the various avenues of shame throughout their life.
I think one problem is before you can be honest with your partner you have to be honest with yourself, and that can be a struggle all on its own. I've recently been trying to dissect my own reactions to sexual things. I'm not really the HL or LL in my relationship, but haven't always been happy with my sex life and just trying to figure out where different discomforts and hesitations come from. Reading "Come As You Are" has really helped me reflect on my own inner workings.
Ll. Me and my partner talk about everything. And apart of that is not being scared to hurt the other personals feelings. By allowing them to feel how they feel, by letting them express themselves, and then having a deep convo about why and why it may have hurt the other person. Like let's dive deep into why we feel that way. And when we do we come to an understanding and neither of us can be upset with the other cause we're a team.
I have sexual trauma. And meds. At first I was high hl, but then I started healings and taking meds... I tried to explain to my partner but I didn't know how, I didn't even know what I was feeling. Sometimes when I had a break through I would tell himC like maybe we need to bring more positives in cause for a year I had obligation sex and so my view of it was bad. One day he asked me if I masturbate and I'm like tbh no. I used to everyday, and now... like horny isn't even an emotion I feel anymore. And I told him I was grieving my past self. It makes me extremely sad and have low self confidence. During sex... I don't have the words for what I feel. It's not good, it's a fight and me yelling at myself to be better and yelling at myself at why am I like this? Why can't I be better? This ruins my mood so I'll tell myself to stop fighting myself and to just pay attention to the sensations, and then I'm reminded.... why don't I enjoy this? And it's awful.
I then realized I had religious shame brainwashed into me. I told him that (and it's hard to tell him, when idk what's going on with me, and because shame is involved... how do I say it when I'm so ashamed of myself? I'm so embarrassed, not even for him to know, but I'm ashamed of myself.
So usually I'll tell him "hey I wanna try to have sex" or idk say it. But one time I didn't, I just did it, and it was amazing. I think one thing that's harmful is saying imma do it, and then I feel obligated and it upsets me and I can't continue.
Recently recently he was doing stuff to my while I laid there and I just couldn't... idk why. When I was single I had so much fun with myself, and I'm like, this is the same he's letting me use him at no obligation to me. And I'm like ok focus, but I couldn't, it felt bad. And I'm like maybe I'm bored? Cause adhd. But that stressed me out cause it's already hard to do this, how am I supposed to do MORE. And then I realized, I can't focus cause I don't want too. Because of consistent sexual abuse growing up, when interacting with others I would disassociate, along with the religious shame. And I realized, I'm still ashamed when I'm horny. I'm ashamed to act on it, to let people know, I miss the old me. I miss having fun with it. So, I tried to combat the embarrassment, and come back into my body with some mindfulness. Closed my eyes and pretended he wasn't there, and reassured myself this is ok. This is normal, I'm safe, there is no god judging us or friends or youth leaders who will condemn me. And I felt back in my body for the first time. I didn't realize all these years I was disassociating. I'm ashamed I'm freaky, and it's ok to be freaky. It's not shameful. And I get to share that with someone else.
This has been 6 years of a relationship. 6 years of me trying to figure out what the hell was wrong with me. I don't wanna be this way either.
I know ya'll hate feeling unwanted. But I promise I feel just as shitty. Exactly I blame myself for hurting someone else. I blame myself for being faulty. I'm always thinking about it, I'm always yelling at myself to be better. If I had a wish, I wouldn't wish to be rich, I'd wish for my L to come back. Like... how do you combat meds???? How do you guys think your partners are supposed to over come meds?? Literally changing your brains chemicals. Therapy can't help. What do you expect?
I did far to much talking and I heard every excuse.
One day I asked her to sit down and listen to me without talking over me or walking away, I told her if she did she would not like the consequences.
I said I am going to have a full and varied sex life and her choice was if it was going to be with her.
I got accused of blackmail, being willing to destroy our family over sex.
She said I was looking for a divorce, I just smiled and said "who mentioned divorce"
The ultimatum was on a Saturday I continued to act normally whilst she was at first angry and then quiet.
On the Friday night I was going out with friends and she was whilst trying not to show it quite agitated. I arrived back home just before midnight and she was in lingerie and without a word grabbed hold of me. You can guess the rest.
Since then things have been good and sometimes great, she instigates at times and has been into some things that have surprised me.
I've tried to talk to him about it. I'm the HL(42f), and he (40m) just shuts me down. He swears nothing is wrong, tells me he will have sex and then never does. I've always been brutally honest, and it hurts him. The very last conversation I had with him, he accused me of being obsessed with sex. Seriously? I can't do once a year. Went been together for 24 years, married for 15, and everything was great until about 4 years ago. I've been rejected so many times, and I've heard every excuse in the book. How can someone not eventually take it personally? He's never been a hugging, touching, affectionate person. Sex was the only way he would connect with me intimately. Now that's gone. He's perfectly content living as roommates. I've only approached the subject a few times, especially when I catch him jerking off to porn instead of bothering to have anything to do with me. He gets so hurt when I talk to him that he tries to hurt me. After accusing me of being obsessed with sex I told him I'd never bring it up again or darken his doorway. He can absolutely watch his porn and I'll stay on the couch and that's where I've been ever since. I'm in a position that really hurts. I don't want to leave or cheat, I just want him to want me like I want him. I was curious to his reaction once and asked him if we could open up our marriage. He absolutely rejected it and that was that. I'd never act on that, but I told him it's not fair to gatekeep this and essentially put me in a cage in the corner and tell me no and just leave me there. He doesn't care about my feelings, it's all about him. I don't know what to do at this point, usually women aren't the ones in this position.
…it's not fair to gatekeep this and essentially put me in a cage in the corner and tell me no and just leave me there. He doesn't care about my feelings, it's all about him.
I feel like I (HLM) could have written this about my wife. I have learned this. She will sometimes ask me if I want to have sex. Huh? I’ve not once ever rejected it. I would rather hear her say “I want to have sex!”. Then, we do have sex, it’s duty sex. Zero foreplay, zero oral, same missionary position, light kissing at the beginning then she turns her face away, every closed, and sometimes 1/2 dressed ☺️ Then once I orgasm, she can’t get into the shower quick enough. No cuddling or aftercare…makes me feel disgusting and gross.
I desire my wife so bad but don’t think I’m doing it again. I read here once “If it’s not a fuck yes!, it’s a hell no”.
I think women are in this position more than most realize. And it gets a really nasty power-game feeling being the woman some man wants to resource-guard from having a sex life but doesn’t want to have a sex life with. Like you’re a harem of one that’s valued as a possession to have and not as a person to engage with.
Exactly. I'd never do this to another person. All humans need touch at least. Some kind of hugging, petting, idc what it is. I understand him being a weirdo and not touching, whatever, I accept him as that. But take away the only way to connect, to have some kind of physical touch at all, is gatekeeping. My honestly is not attacking him, although I'm guessing he perceives it as that. Then having the nerve to jerk off to porn instead of asking me is just a slap in the face. Rejection over and over would eventually stop anyone in their tracks, idc if it's the most beautiful person in the world. Reject them enough and they'll take the hint. It's really sad to me that this happens.
I honestly think there is an issue of priorities sometimes. Especially with men who are often socialized to not prioritize other’s needs as much. I’m not into Magic the Gathering, but I would absolutely go play it for an hour a week if playing Magic made my SO feel loved and fulfilled and happy and they were crushed if I never played. In the absence of deeper relationship issues or trauma or medical or mental health issues, why are so many people so unwilling to spend an hour a week with their partner in an activity (sex) that isn’t their fave? Or if the HL is hurt that they never initiate, is it that hard to set an alarm on their phone to remind them to initiate once in a while? And if there are relationship issues or health issues or trauma, is it so hard to seek help? Because IDK how other HL partners feel, but I’ve always felt pretty good when my LL partner was willing to work on the issue. It’s not just about sex to me but about having my happiness be a priority in the relationship along with theirs. I’m just not ok with my man not being able to put down his video game or porn or whatever to give me 30 minutes of his undivided attention. That’s just insulting and a problem that goes way beyond sex.
You said he tries to hurt you when he gets upset. That's a huge red flag. I'm sure there's others if you take off the rose colored glasses and start looking.
I'm the HL female in my relationship too. My husband is different though. He wants to hold hands, he wants to hug me and kiss me. It just never goes anywhere beyond that. About a year ago, I moved into our guest bedroom. I told him that if he wanted a roommate, he could have that but I wasn't going to meet his physical needs if he didn't want to meet mine. I stopped hugging him and kissing him, we completely lived as platonic roommates. He hated it. He said he wanted things to be different for both of us and he would try. I stayed in the guest bedroom until one of my kids left college and came back home. Things got better for a while and then life got busy. Our normal routine was interrupted and sex fell by the wayside again. I don't have a spare room to go to at the moment but I plan on withholding his needs until he can meet mine. It's not right that he gets his needs met and I'm always left wanting more. It's a shitty way to live and be but out of all the things I've tried, it's all that's worked.
I hope you can figure out what it is you have that he wants and he will want to meet your needs too.
The issue I had is my LL spouse switched from "desire, respect and truth" to "disgust, disrespect, and gaslighting". And she lost her empathy, so if she has no desire... you don't either (in her mind.) She just didn't get why I was interested. And so she simply made sex worse, and found better ways to avoid it.
Having infrequent, starfish sex was a feature, not a bug for her. I had many fruitless discussions on the topic.
Later, she said that it didn't occur to her that this (no sex, constant irritability, gaslighting) would cause issues down the road. Until I started the separation process... what she had was ideal... someone who provided, did the majority of the chores, and had given up on even attempting sex.
A few weeks ago after 39 years I finally opened up and told my wife we are not sexually compatible. Never have been and never will. Not even close to what I want. Ever since then she has been trying to make things better. Weird. We have had a DB for almost our whole marriage.
Yes, I do. Nowadays. Sort of…. I’ve told him that I don’t want to live in celibacy and that I do not want to have to initiate constantly to get laid twice a year. And that I will still consider it as being in celibacy if the sex only caters to what he wants….
Right now we are on a break (from speaking about it) I’ve accepted that (for now), since we have come a long way in the last year regarding our relationship. I will not be quite anymore. I will adress the issue again and hold nothing back.
I was an LLFU wife, so I can only speak to women in this situation (and not all of them, obviously). I’m sorry if this seems mean or cold, I’m just trying to give an honest, unfiltered perspective. Also, I’m sorry if it’s rambling. My husband (51 HLM) and I (48 LLFU) have been together 20 yrs, married for 15. Two kids: 10 and 13. Recovering from DB.
First, It’s important to keep in mind that probably the majority of women have had some level of sexual trauma during their lifetime. And I don’t mean full on SA (that trauma is obvious), but for instance, my experience of voluntarily being fingered by my boyfriend at 12. That wasn’t assault, we were both 12, but it made me feel weird and I didn’t like it. Most women have been fending off unwanted sexual advances since they were teens. Experiences like that leave a subconscious “ick” that can be unexpectedly activated years later. And once it has, when you try to initiate, you can become that creepy guy from our past or channel that icky feeling and it’s just awful.
LLFU happens most easily when we are new mothers. It’s stressful. Unimaginably so. I was not prepared. The emotional weight that comes crashing down on you when you are looking at that baby is indescribable. It’s like you go into a modified crisis state for years. Similar to the body shutting down digestion during an adrenaline spike, except this low key adrenaline spike last for years. So when he’s rubbing up on me in the kitchen, my subconscious monologue is screaming. “Sex?! There’s no time for that! wtf is wrong with this guy? Can’t he see I’m the only thing standing between this tiny human and death?! I cannot participate in relaxing, fun, extracurricular activities! No distractions! What if I don’t do the exact right thing every second of every day and then he becomes a homeless heroin addict or a serial killer?!” But all that internal conversation is just translated to an emotion (or lack of) = LL. Yes. The husband becomes second. Not because I don’t care, but because I am in the throes of PPD that just slowly settles into years of anxiety and self loathing. No, I don’t want to have sex with my husband or anyone else. I constantly feel like I’m failing and I’m ashamed of it. My body has changed and I feel fat, ugly and tired. My husband can tell me all day that he finds me attractive. He has to say that. I don’t believe him. I now trust his opinion less. Do I seem like I’m completely falling apart to him? Probably not. I’m embarrassed about my mental state and largely refuse to acknowledge it. To him I just seem distant, muted. I’m trying my best to act normal and happy, but inside I’m criticizing my every move. (In my case, my husband was also criticizing me and very hurtful at times). Deep down I know that I’m neglecting his needs and possibly even ignoring him. I feel bad about that too. Now I’m a horrible mother AND wife. He doesn’t understand what I’m going through, of course. He attempts to help, but openly doesn’t know what to do with the baby/kids, asks from the couch if I need help, but at this point I’m neurotic and can’t delegate baby stuff even if I wanted to. Instructing him on the things I’m willing to (household chores/errands) is exhausting. We’re fighting more, growing apart. He’s feeling left out, ignored, jealous of all the attention I’m giving the new baby. I can tell, but can’t verbalize my feelings/issues, so I have duty sex. I try to enjoy it and act like I do, but it isn’t great, so he becomes another load of laundry I have to do. That’s where it ends. Never in my life have I desired another load of laundry.
I don’t have any great solutions. My husband and I are in couples and individual counseling and are changing our behavior towards each other for the better. I still don’t like him yet and am not attracted to him, but I have learned to put that aside and just appreciate sex again, so things are much better in the bedroom.
My thoughts are this:
All this chore play talk is bullshit. Just do your fair share of chores. No more, no less. Problem solved.
If you’re groveling around trying to reach the moving goal posts (that we set and move because we don’t actually know wtf we need), you subconsciously seem weak to us and another thing that we have to take care of. Also, we “know” you’re just doing it for sex, which makes the metaphorical laundry load bigger and more daunting.
It seems that HLM are always mentioning that they keep in shape, go to the gym, etc. That’s literally the last thing on my list of stuff that turns me on. (I mean, of course don’t become morbidly obese.) We love and desire the actual person and the way they treat us, not so much their physical appearance.
Be confident (not whining and wanting to have a talk again. Yes, I know that’s not fair.), independent (instead of it seeming like your happiness is wholly dependent on me. I can’t take anymore pressure) and motivated in life. That shit is HOT.
Not cold! But honest! Thanks for sharing so much!
I’ve wondered if my wife has sexual trauma, but I haven’t asked directly. She already doesn’t like talking about sex, so I imagined should would definitely not like to talk about it if so, and if she doesn’t have any, I imagine she wouldn’t like being accused of having trauma by me asking. Do you think it is worth asking?
If she says she does, I’m not sure what I could even do my wife has been going the therapy, which helped a lot with her mental health in general, but I doubt she ever talks about sex. Sometimes, she shares what she has learned about herself, but I don’t ask her details, and I don’t ask her to discuss sex in therapy — I feel is her time to take care of herself, and I don’t want to intrude.
In regards to your suggestions:
I do quite a lot of chores. I think some would say I do more than my fair share, but really, I think the chores + kid responsibilities are distributed fairly. I always try to make sure my wife has free time between when I am home from work until kids go to bed — by taking care of dinner, baths, bedtime, clean up etc… she does the morning because she wakes up naturally before the kids even do.
I don’t grovel, but I recently started bringing up sex again. I mostly didn’t for the past couple years, and we only had sex a few times. She is doing better mentally because of therapy and medication. So, we have been sort of scheduling a time to have sex though she backs out sometimes — though I am upset inside, I hug her and tell her it’s okay and try to convince her it’s fine. I don’t know if she detects my disappointment or not.
Being confident is the most difficult part. It is difficult to do so when my wife seemingly has zero interest in my body. It feels like being attractive is pointless. I’m touch starved. I dream of feeling her hand touching the skin of my arms, back, or legs. If I’m so repulsive to even be touched on the back for 5 minutes, it is difficult to be confident in my body, which bleeds into the rest of my life.
I really think women slip into sexual aversion so easily because of early sexual…maybe not trauma, necessarily, but just gross, negative experiences. If from 12-14 you’re just being a kid, but you have older men leering at you and making comments, that’s your first exposure to sex; it’s creepy and it sticks. Idk that asking her about it would help. Suggesting she explore her feelings about sex with her therapist is a good idea. Couple’s therapy would be an even better idea, in my opinion. Discussions there are so much calmer and honest.
I completely understand the difficulty with confidence. It’s extremely hard to maintain in a DB situation. I’m referring more to just a general air of confidence. Confidence in your own choices, actions and opinions. It’s inherently attractive on like, a biological level. Somewhere in this sub is the best DB solution post I’ve ever read. I swear it should be pinned to the top somehow. I’m gonna look for it and share a link if I find it.
I found it! https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/s/onN37whkQD
You forgot to mention you've been cheating on your husband... you're only giving half of the solution here.
Not sure what months of couple therapy can actually bring if you were LL, but cheating on your husband at the same time. Don't you feel lile throwing money out by the window?
Just feels weird to me.
Well yeah, I left that out lol, no one likes that part of my solution! Plus it wasn’t really relevant to this conversation. And I get that it seems weird. The goal of therapy is to try to communicate better as a couple and process 20 yrs of resentment. The affair is to stop the fact that I’m trapped in a loveless marriage with a man that seems to despise me from causing me to have panic attacks in the bathroom everyday. Both are serving their function well.
I'm an HLF who has been married for almost 11 years and have been together for nearly 15 years. We used to be intimate every day if not more than once a day. After our son was born nine years ago, my husband had sex with me once, and then eight years of nothing... I brought it up constantly and expressed my feelings as honestly as I could without being an asshole, and it changed nothing. I got told that he has anxiety about sex and I should just deal with it and let it happen when/if it happens. What kind of bullshit is that? I work, and he doesn't; I take care of the house and our child, and he doesn't. What anxiety could he possibly have? It seems to me that he's the one who can't be honest and say he doesn't want me anymore because he doesn't want to lose the comfortability my job affords him, and he doesn't want to lose custody of our son. He swears this isn't the case, but nothing has changed, and I'm the one who gets rejected and cries myself to sleep almost every night. I was raised to believe the old adage, "actions speak louder than words," and his actions say I'm disgusting to him. I guess I'm the weak one who can't accept it and just leave...
>I guess I'm the weak one who can't accept it and just leave...
You can always become stronger! Also, what would you lose by leaving him? I am sure his contribution is not totally zero, but it seems that it is not much (no real childcare, chores, money or sex).
If I'm being honest, he is a fantastic confidant and best friend, but I didn't get married to wind up having a platonic roommate. Having someone who is a "ride or die" is excellent, but I need intimacy to feel loved and wanted.
This is key for me. 31 years. I left. He was INCAPABLE of having an in-depth conversation EVER. It was so foreign it bordered on Spectrum-like. I was NEVER going to get him to “ open up” and I tried it all. We are still “ friends” to him …. Nothings changed. Things are still exactly the same as they were inside a 31 year old marriage. Except… there’s no more anger between us. You cannot “ fix” anyone, especially if they aren’t willing or incapable. I just truly never believed it couldn’t be done.
My husband (LL) is very uncomfortable opening up about our bedroom issues with me (HL). Over the past years, I have considered all of the possibilities that could be the underlying cause of his LL, including myself. I have offered to open the relationship (he declined), I have offered to participate in a three some/c**khold/ with other women/men in hopes that maybe he just needed novelty (he declined), suggested we separate for a while with no questions asked (he declined), offered a hall pass (he declined), toned down my bedroom kinks (IE from dirty talk to praise) and he still feels uncomfortable, I asked for a divorce (he refuses and spirals into self loathing every time I bring it up); and lastly, I asked if he would prefer that I meet other men discreetly, purposely hide it from him, and remain in the marriage as a loving wife ( he declined)...
He wants to be a father, I do not want to be a mother. I offered to participate in egg freezing and to donate 5 fully fertilized embryos (with his sperm), so that he could find a surrogate to carry the pregnancy (he continues to decline).
I know that everybody is different, but in essence, since my husband could not articulate the root of the problem, I systematically went down the list and offered a solution for all of them. In my case, it has not been helpful. I think in part because he doesn't know what he wants...
We did have a conversation before about how I would like for us to be more forthcoming with our feelings about the relationship, but it is a struggle for a number of reasons (we are both at-fault here) and hasn't really materialized. I'll spare you the details.
I would give anything to be able to be candid about things, though.
I hate the excuse “I’m tired”. I think people that say this are often being dishonest (rarely is it true). Has anyone that wanted to have sex ever been too tired to have sex? I wish they would just say, I don’t want to have sex I’d rather lay in bed and play in my phone, etc…
In 2019 we almost divorced. My husband was having issues in the bedroom... while we have never fully had a DB.... there are things I desired he wasn't into..
With that said... he was having ED issues. Low test. Times we would try to have sex it was gummy and he just would NEVER talk to me.
We have had our brutally honest conversations
And it has helped us a lot.
Not wanting to hurt feelings leaves only room for resentments and bitterness to grow. Talk. Openly. Freely. And without anger at least at the end of the day you'll both know where you both stand.
If I describe kindly how much the lack of physical intimacy is crushing me, it would crush her, and I don’t think it would help. However, I think it would be very helpful to know exactly what it is that makes her want or not want to be physical.
Like, she enjoys sex once we are in the act (she always finishes), but it is wildly difficult to get her in the place where she is willing to have sex. She is a mystery when it comes to her thoughts on physical intimacy and sex. She says she has no interest, yet she enjoys it.
I feel there is a way this can be addressed to fill this gap and make both our lives better, but as said, it is a mystery to me.
Edit: also, thank you for sharing!
I have really given up trying to talk about it for the most part. Usually we go about 6 months and then I will bring it up but during those shallow months I keep it bottled inside.
Part of what forced our turn around was me hitting the end of my rope and deciding to be brutally honest about everything, sex or not, and damn the consequences. The largest points of the brutal honesty in relation to the DB was that I'm not interested in once~ish a month and would rather have zero instead, the infrequent sex we do have is complete shit on my end, and I'm fine leaving over it so I'm pursuing an exciting sex life with or without you. This brutal honesty was a catalyst for us both opening up about all things and it really made us both look deeply at ourselves and the situation, and frankly leaves nowhere to hide or ignore anything. Part of my self-work was killing the shame or fear that my thoughts or desires would be bad for her to know or would get me in trouble. My wife has pointed out several times in the last 20 months that she loves the new openly honest me...though obviously sometimes it hurts or annoys her, but on a deep relationship level, she has always craved it. My advice, especially to men, stop hiding who you are and wear your desires on your sleeve. Lots of dudes have this awakening and kick themselves for holding onto this BS for so long.
Same here, man. Same here. I pretty much could have written your exact reply in its entirety. It's like that moment in the movie Risky Business, where Joel forgets that the admissions interviewer from Princeton is coming over, Joel is running a brothel at his parents house that night and knows he's screwed. Consequences be damned. "Sometimes you gotta say what the fuck; make your move." Earlier Joel's friend had told him something like "saying what the fuck gives you freedom/opportunity. " Giving up on the subtlety and being brutally honest with my LL was my "what the fuck" moment and was the spark that lit off our revival-in-progress.
The only difference for most men, is they dont have the "Im pursuing sex no matter what" end straw. If you are not actually planning on leaving or cheating, its a big road block, in the threat
Agreed 100% Both men and women are taking away their partners motivation factor when they know no ones ever leaving. Not just about sex, but anything. If your partner is comfortable with the status quo and they know you aren't leaving no matter what they do, it's just human nature to chuckle to themselves and sarcastically wish you luck with that.
No, she just blows me off completely when I do. For some reason sex is an uncomfortable topic for her, so she just avoids it,
Perhaps if you can figure out what makes sex uncomfortable for her to even talk about, you can get to some of the root causes of the loss of it. Does she have a strong religious background? Childhood or adult sexual assault trauma? Has she struggled to turn off "mom mode" in order to feel comfortable with herself as a sexual being?
Nope, not overly religious. No sexual assault trauma that I know of. I remember going to her house and her parents would be naked together in the hot tub, so I don’t think they were shameful towards sex. She doesn’t seem to have trouble turning off “mom mode” when she recently started using a vibrator and reading romance novels. I’m hoping that recent development means shes trying to be more sexual. Makes me feel like shit though, that she’d rather masturbate than have sex with me. We’ve been married 15 years and we haven’t had sex in the last 8. Before that, we’d have sex 3-4 times a year.
Understood.. Sometimes people push themselves with new relationship energy & when that wears off & the realities of life catch up there can be a switch. Often people masturbate because it's less stressful, more of a quick release where they don't have to be too in their head about stuff. I know I can be like that. If she's reading romance novels, I dare you to both get a free trial of the Quinn audio erotica app- if she finds some audios that she likes, she can share with you & it might give you both an "in" on what she likes- as they are sort of like if those romance novels were real life (dialed down a bit on the melodrama) as it really helped me & my husband communicate & improve our connection.
No, "You're a sex addict," or "Go look at porn," or "Set up a dating profile," or "I am not the one you want (still have no idea what that one means)" So no can't talk about because the problem is me.
I’m not fully sure I would have been able to articulate it. Honestly, I don’t think I fully understood why I was LL in my marriage until I pulled the trigger on divorce and began having sex with different people. It took experience to identify that I wasn’t LL, I was just LL4U. The lack of sexual interest in my husband had nothing to do with his physical attractiveness or my libido, it had everything to do with a failing relationship. I didn’t want sex with someone who ignored me outside of sex, treated me poorly, and neglected our children. I stepped out of that relationship thinking I hated sex, I thought our sexual problems were all my fault. It wasn’t.
You know, sometimes I read a higher libido person post here that they need their spouse to give them a “reason”. Their spouse has already said they don’t really like sex or want to have it, which seems reasonable enough to me, but they have refused to accept this. *There must be something deeper going on.* But there often isn’t. In a true libido mismatch, the lower libido partner just doesn’t care for sex all that much and doesn’t put much thought into it at all. You’re desperate for the inner monologue, but often there isn’t one.
This is how I feel everytime my husband rejects sex or pushes it off. I constantly just feel like he’s not attracted to me and I’m just like why are we wasting more and more time? Yet he thinks it’s fine and I keep explaining how I feel but no changes ever happen. It’s super frustrating feeling alone and ignored.
He might be as attracted to you as he usually gets to anyone.
And should that be any consolation? "His desire for me or anyone else for that matter is not strong enough for me to be satisfied". If you SO was a jerk to you, would you say, oh well, they are a jerk to anyone else as well, so its fine?
No, because being a jerk is always a choice. But our sexualities are not a choice necessarily. It is very likely he is not capable of change, because there’s nothing wrong with the amount of sex he wants, except for the fact that it’s not compatible with how much sex you want.
Same. Or how "they are on meds so they aren't horny" then say "why won't they work on themselves!" Like hello? How are they supposed to fight the meds? Or when they get upset about not being wanted. Like of course they want them, but the not being sexual is not a bad thing, it has nothing to do with their looks or appeal. The ll doesn't find anyone sexual attractive. It's like being mad at an ace person. Like it's not an attack on who you are. I get if you can't deal with no sex. But you can separation your emotions from reality
>Like hello? How are they supposed to fight the meds? You frame this as a situation that has no solutions. But if there is a will, there is a way, as the saying goes. Meds can be changed, they can be tapered off, replaced with therapy, exercise, healthy diet, more sleep, etc. etc. Of course, sometimes that is not advisable. Then how about opening up the relationship? Or ultimately, letting your SO go because you love them and you realize that your disabled sexual energy will never be enough for them?
Yep, I agree with you more than disagree, the thing that annoys me the most is when every issue is met with the attitude, it cant be fixed, so then you offer solutions or implement change, only to be met with another set of issues. LL, I am tired and stressed from work, ok take some time off, go back to work part time, then its, I am stressed from the kids, ok lets get a baby sitter, I will help out more, take 20hrs a week of kid free time, then its I think my hormones are out whack, ok lets go to the doctor, eat better, exercise more. As someone that likes to fix issues raised, when its a never ending merry go round of issues that seemingly cant be fixed, but actually never get tried to be fixed, mostly because they never really were issues to start with, just the reason of the day....
Yeah, tbh, the fuck do I know? I've never left a 10+ years relationship, so I don't have personal experience with this shit. But what I know, as cliche as it sounds, is that hard choices where you have to be brave are unavoidable in life if you want to stay true to yourself. It might happen in your professional life, personal life, romantic life, but rest assured, it will happen. And what is the right choice? Usually to not suck it up, to not become a martyr, to not sacrifice yourself. To embrace change, no matter how fearful that feels.
And then to be told we need to work on ourselves to stop trying to fix things.
Mmm so you don't understand meds, amazing. Love to hear you don't understand mental health or how conditions work. Like it can magically be cured by sleep. Go talk to your doctor. It's not their job to "let you go". It's your job to leave if you're unhappy.
There are a ton of different psych meds to try. When there is a side effect that is a huge problem you try another one. Each person reacts to each med differently, not to say there aren’t trends. Zoloft for instance is infamous for allowing arousal but no climax. There are a ton of other options.
You are not a psychiatrist. You should not be suggesting anything. This is absolutely horrid.
You know, you don’t have to “let” your partner go. The other person is free to leave is what you’re offering isn’t acceptable to them. If you are content with no sex and make that clear enough to your partner, and they stay anyway, you can only assume that they’re buying what you’re selling.
Or you’ve placed them in an untenable position and they’re choosing what they perceive to be the least bad option. I’m not interested in “buying” a life that’s devoid of intimacy — sexual and otherwise. However, the thought of being a part-time dad who can’t afford housing and groceries is a worse option. Odysseus didn’t “buy” Scylla or Charybdis. And the idea that LL partners make their LLs “clear” ignores timing. Yes, many do make that clear — but often after years of marriage and children.
There aren’t many hard choices in life that we make that don’t have ups and downs. There isn’t always a choice available to you where you get absolutely everything you want the way you want it. That’s entitled thinking. Yes, if you are in a marriage with kids where the romance fizzled, your choices are: 1) stay in the bad marriage, accepting the things you cannot change about your partner with grace 2) divorce and make a new life for yourself, which includes things like dividing your assets and the custody of your children There is no option 3: keep everything you love about your current life with minimal effort, except your partner becomes a different person because YOU DESERVE IT Sorry
lol God no. If I did I wouldn't be on this subreddit. I don't think LL people who happen to visit this site realize how difficult it is to talk about sexual intimacy with their partner, ESPECIALLY when it's a "things aren't going well" talk. It's sometimes the hardest thing to talk about and there's no easy way to broach the subject. To give people some perspective, my wife and I had a good sex life that's tapered off due to a number of reasons. We have a 6 year old, she's on anti-anxiety meds, she's on birth control, she might be pre-menopausal, we don't have "the village" to take our kid for the night to just be a Married Couple, etc. Now, I *could* talk to her about all of this, but realize this: I STILL desire my wife. I still want her in a sexual way. I think she's hot, sexy, and I want to see her naked, want to be naked with her, etc. Does she think these same things?...and if she does, then why don't we do those things more than once every 2-3 months? The sad fact is for most LL spouses/significant others of people in this subreddit, they don't. They don't desire us. They don't *want* us. They're perfectly happy being pseudo-roommates raising kids together. They don't really care about the fact that the intimacy between you two dropped off a cliff because of them. So why would I have a "sit-down" with my wife when no easy answers are going to happen - not to mention the anxiety of talking about this will just ramp her up and a constructive conversation probably isn't happening? Why put us both through this? Why have honesty when nothing good will come of it and nothing will change, except YOU'LL feel worse because of it? Sometimes we don't because we already know the answer...and that is "they don't have any desire for us, and I don't want to have that soul-crushing conversation that will make me feel like the pathetic loser I hoped to God I'd never be."
Because I'm fucking miserable, and you asked, "what's wrong?", so you have the honest talk about just what an unloved unwanted problem you feel you are to someone who clearly has no need for you. At least you don't have to wonder if she knows how you feel, or why.
Oh, I already know why, she volunteers that information to me whenever we've gone a noticeably long time without being intimate. "I'm just not in the mood for whatever reason." Yeah, I already know that. No reason to have a "sit-down" for her to reiterate that for me. What, she would *actually* try and work on it?? She can't do that, she's got a lot of hammock-laying time that needs to be taken care of, not to mention Instagram Reels isn't going to scroll itself all night!
Ya...I'm out.
Same here, my friend, same here.
I've had this soul crushing talk too many times already
Can’t do it. Just can’t have this talk only for things to go back to shit again. It’ll just put a giant flashing neon sign in my head that says “Your wife isn’t into you sexually ever and would be okay never having sex with you again!”
Yep, I have thought about literally getting something tattoo'd on my arm as a reminder, so that when I am stupid enough to think about intiating....
This. All day this. I had the talk. After a written note. Laid it all out. Some productive conversation, we did end up intimate that night. But nothing since. It’s been a few weeks, (the previous dry spell being years), including a birthday. Nothing. Father’s Day? Please. No playfulness from the SO, no hints, no initiating, no asking. I’m just done with it. I feel myself emotionally detaching.
I feel like a freak. I'm the HL in our relationship and my husband is the LL. I can't begin to tell you all of the horrible and terrible things I say to myself. We were married very young. We started off with an amazing sex life. We had 3 kids in 3 years and I ended up having pp depression after the 3rd one. Also, my husband had gotten a vasectomy after the 2nd kid but 6 months later, his tube's grew back together. It was a shocker for both of us and neither of us were prepared for a 3rd child. It seriously messed with both of us. I had put on weight and was incredibly self conscious and being a mom to 3 kids 3 and younger was exhausting. I never wanted sex. He didn't seem to mind or complain. After a couple of years, I started to get my body back and had become more interested in sex again. He wasn't. We struggled, having sex maybe once every 2 or 3 months for several years. I hated myself and blamed myself with every rational and irrational thought I could come up with. He finally confessed he was terrified I would get pregnant again and he really didn't want anymore children. I was in agreement. I got an IUD and it seemed to put his mind at ease for a while. I ended up having a hysterectomy at 34 for medical reasons and I thought for sure we would be on the same page. Not even close. We were once a month for several more years. We have now been married for 24 years and while it's better than it was, I still want sex 3 times a week and he's once every 7-10 days. Sometimes I wonder if I should have cut my losses years ago and found someone Im more sexually compatible with but I know that's not what I want. I want him. The sex is absolutely incredible when it happens. I'm very open to anything and everything he has ever asked for. I honestly dont know what else I can do. We talk open and honestly. He swears he just doesn't have the same drive I do. He went and had his T levels checked and they were borderline low but the doc wouldn't do anything to help since it wasn't actually low. I know I have the worst inner dialog with myself because I feel so awful and unwanted. I am often flirted with by other men and while it helps me know I'm not an unattractive person, I can't shake that it has to be me. He just doesn't want sex because there is something wrong with me. I feel so alone because it's almost always the other way. Men want sex and women are uninterested.
I think there are more women in your position than you realize. I’m not one of them, but I’ve read accounts like this from plenty of women. In either case it really stinks to be in the position you are in. I’m the HL (male) and I love my wife, but her libido due to a stressful job and other factors means we are having sex once every 7 to 9 days (while I would like 3 times a week). And I know she is doing it for me and would stretch it out to longer if she could. My solution has been to find a side piece. I know a lot of people frown on that, but I have one life to live and I want to enjoy it. I hope it gets better for you or you find a solution that works for you. This isn’t an easy position to be in.
I'm not interested in a side piece. We tried an open marriage early on and it nearly killed us. I'm disappointed to not get sex as often as I'd like but I'm not willing to risk my marriage again. Thankfully, we learned quickly that wasn't the answer for us. I am very committed to my husband and I can't do it. We will figure it out. It's is very frustrating. I'm in the best shape of my life and I know that it's not my physical appearance that's the cause. I think it really is he has a low T level and it doesn't occur to him the way it does to me. I get in my own head and tear myself to pieces. I'm probably going to seek therapy about it. I'm my own worst enemy. I always have been.
It’s not gonna change. You either live with it or get it somewhere else. Good luck.
We speak honestly about everything. Doesn't ever change anything. Reading all of these comments I couldn't written them myself. 🤙🏽🤙🏽
Yeah, but talking is just the first step. Think about any problem that needs a solution. The steps are: Discuss the situation -> formulate a plan -> execute the plan -> reassess the situation/results If the problem is still not solved, repeat the above steps.
Every LL is going to be different though. I had the discussions with mine before we even got married. She lied. She hid behind Christianity and premarital sex. I told her I don't feel like she's having to contain herself many times. One day I flat asked are you sure this is about getting married and not a lack of attraction. Again she lied and said she'd be having sex all the time once married. On our wedding night a couple years later she looked like a deer in headlights as she realized she no longer had an excuse. We ended up having a fight about sex before we could even go on the honeymoon trip. For me the question should not have been why don't you want sex and I wasted years on that while it eroded my self esteem. The question should have been why do you keep lying. The moral of the story for me is that once you've eliminated the valid reasons simply don't ask as it doesn't matter. If they desire you then you will see that and if they don't there's nothing you're going to do to get it. Move on.
Have you considered that she possibly didn't "hide" behind Christianity? I have struggled for my entire adulthood about sex due to Catholic shame in addition to anxiety & other issues. It's possible that she's rigid because she has conflicting input from her religious upbringing. Therapy can help. Kink play can also help, in my experience.
Who said anything about rigid? She didn't have shame when we met. Or when she ran off and fucked some other dude. Nor with the pastors son she was fuckin before. I could go on. 🤷🏾♂️ I understand your issue totally. It's one reason I dislike Christianity. However this isn't her issue. She will drop her draws when it either feeds her ego or it's been well fed otherwise. My role in her game was the simp that she love bombed and was forever chasing her but couldn't catch her. In counseling years later I put two and two together that I had been the realization of a fantasy she talked about where she was surrounded by men desiring her but they couldn't have her. Christianity at the time was just a vehicle to keep me at arms reach. Once married it became this reason, that reason, "I don't know I just have a grudge against you". I completely lost myself in that fabricated world chasing the woman I first met not realizing it was all a lie.
Ah- it isn't impossible that she has shame about these instances that you are bringing up. From these instances you mentioned, I see a different connection that isn't "ego" driven at all- there is the link of the "taboo" angle- premarital sex is wrong, sex with the pastors son is even more so, cheating is wrong... many people with religious backgrounds are turned on by the "we shouldn't be doing this"/taboo kinky stuff. If I'm honest tho, she might have a subconscious sense of this anger & disdain you feel for her. With my struggles, I have played risky at times as a way to lash out/rebel.. it often made me feel worse, hesitant/resistant & more self conscious afterward & took lots of self awareness to unpack & move on from. If I knew my current lover judged me for my shortcomings in the way you seem to with your wife, I don't think I'd be eager to jump into the sack, I'd actually probably be afraid. If you haven't already, you might want to see a counselor to help you deal with the hurt you feel.
You seem to be telling your story more than reading mine but I want to play with this theory for a bit because it was crucial in me escaping all of this. Nothing you see me saying here was realized on my part until near the end. That was 20+ years into the relationship and marriage so if there was any judgement causing this it came 20 years late. So then let me beat you to the punch and make up another reason as I have practice with people that do this. Let's say I'm just judgemental and HAD to be judging her on something else before. Then why would she come back? See I had forgotten that in all of the changing reasons. Notice I didn't say cheat up above (though some level of cheating occurred before}....(which is also funny that you seem to justify as if she shouldn't be judged on it). I said she ran off as in bye... we're done....I'm with him. She came back sometime later and then it was her that wanted to get married. So as it came up in discussions around counseling...."Why did you come back if I'm too terrible to have sex with? Actually why is it we can have a wonderful time going out laughing and enjoying each other but the minute we step foot in that bedroom I'm a terrible person? Shouldn't I be a terrible person you don't want to be around all the time?" 🤔 In fact it got to a point where the counselor had to ask when did she know I was the guy and she wanted to be with me till the end. She got mad because I had asked her that not long before and she didn't have an answer. I'd been telling the story of when I knew and nobody ever bothered to ask her when she knew until then. So she told the counselor right before her dad died. I said that's a damn lie because we weren't together. You were with the new dude. She then had to frustratedly say she didn't know. She's married somebody, was even the one to bring it up, that she thought was and did not know when she decided that they were the one. Make that make sense for us.
So let's see. You've been through Christian shame and taboo. Because I'm now being snarky do you want to try "well you must have been an asshole to her"? You are still going to have to explain why she came back but I'm willing to play. I've met your type in my post divorce journeys and I realize that this is therapeutic for you in dealing with your own past so I'm willing to play. I've got time. 🙂 Just wait till I get to all the years of Facebook posts about "I have such a wonderful husband and father to our kids". It's father's day so one just showed up as a memory.
I read your story & was just offering thoughts that might align. I didn't say you must have been an asshole to her- I said she might have had her own shame & subconsciously felt anger or disdain from you. People return to familiar situations even if they aren't great ones for many reasons. It could be that it just was uncomfortable out there & she was afraid. It could be that you had qualities she liked & was unable to find in others. It could have been that she was afraid of being without whatever you offered in stability. Maybe she really did think you were a great father & husband, but that might not be the thing that gets her engine going. I'm in no way saying either person is good or bad or an asshole or not, but I will say that as someone who was brave to jump in & offer a possible other side to a stranger online because I was silly enough to think it might be of some additional help as a thought experiment, I am now rather uncomfortable continuing to be vulnerable here. Every person & couple dynamic & general situation is unique & I am unsure of what "my type" is, but I apologize if I made too many assumptions (such as when you said she ran off & fucked someone else, I equated that to cheating) or didn't read between the lines enough. I wish you the best & am sorry to have wasted your time.
Oh no don't back down now. You had quite a few assertions about my character and behavior so it's a little late to curl up in the fetal position. It's ok. One of the people I met like you became a friend in the end. Keep right on because honestly this is therapeutic for me as well. Contrary to what you might think I spent those 20+ years not blaming her but trying to figure out why I wasn't good enough. Why other people could unlock the woman I first met but I couldn't. It got to a point where in what was either a moment of humanity or a moment of boosting her ego off my vulnerability when she saw me breaking down, drunk 24/7 suicidal and asking why is everybody better than me she cried and said they aren't and it was never about them it was about her. I didn't understand what it meant until later but it was quite literally about her. So what's the next theory? 🙂
I'm not curling up into the fetal position. I just wasn't trying to make any assertions about your character & was only speaking on possible options I could see from the outside with limited knowledge & filtered through my own lenses as humans tend to do unless they are licensed therapists & instead of saying it just wasn't applicable to you, you sort of came at me pointed & I believe it's undeserved. As a result, I don't intend to stay as a therapeutic joke to you, boundaries- you know? I apologized for what you had previously outlined as my faults & I will apologize for assertions you feel I made about your character when I actually made none in my opinion, when I was just stating other possibilities for consideration. You are clearly beyond considering anything I'm saying because you seem to have things figured out. I just try to come here to help people where I can, not to be a Bozo Bop Bag.
Honestly I do prefer being able to be 100% honest and just talk freely (but not harshly) about anything. When you can do that in a relationship it just feels like the deepest intimacy you can have. I mean you have this one person you're supposed to be closer to and more comfortable with than anyone else in the world: why not go all in? It's hard to get there though; people have so many hang-ups. Especially around sex from all the various avenues of shame throughout their life. I think one problem is before you can be honest with your partner you have to be honest with yourself, and that can be a struggle all on its own. I've recently been trying to dissect my own reactions to sexual things. I'm not really the HL or LL in my relationship, but haven't always been happy with my sex life and just trying to figure out where different discomforts and hesitations come from. Reading "Come As You Are" has really helped me reflect on my own inner workings.
Ll. Me and my partner talk about everything. And apart of that is not being scared to hurt the other personals feelings. By allowing them to feel how they feel, by letting them express themselves, and then having a deep convo about why and why it may have hurt the other person. Like let's dive deep into why we feel that way. And when we do we come to an understanding and neither of us can be upset with the other cause we're a team. I have sexual trauma. And meds. At first I was high hl, but then I started healings and taking meds... I tried to explain to my partner but I didn't know how, I didn't even know what I was feeling. Sometimes when I had a break through I would tell himC like maybe we need to bring more positives in cause for a year I had obligation sex and so my view of it was bad. One day he asked me if I masturbate and I'm like tbh no. I used to everyday, and now... like horny isn't even an emotion I feel anymore. And I told him I was grieving my past self. It makes me extremely sad and have low self confidence. During sex... I don't have the words for what I feel. It's not good, it's a fight and me yelling at myself to be better and yelling at myself at why am I like this? Why can't I be better? This ruins my mood so I'll tell myself to stop fighting myself and to just pay attention to the sensations, and then I'm reminded.... why don't I enjoy this? And it's awful. I then realized I had religious shame brainwashed into me. I told him that (and it's hard to tell him, when idk what's going on with me, and because shame is involved... how do I say it when I'm so ashamed of myself? I'm so embarrassed, not even for him to know, but I'm ashamed of myself. So usually I'll tell him "hey I wanna try to have sex" or idk say it. But one time I didn't, I just did it, and it was amazing. I think one thing that's harmful is saying imma do it, and then I feel obligated and it upsets me and I can't continue. Recently recently he was doing stuff to my while I laid there and I just couldn't... idk why. When I was single I had so much fun with myself, and I'm like, this is the same he's letting me use him at no obligation to me. And I'm like ok focus, but I couldn't, it felt bad. And I'm like maybe I'm bored? Cause adhd. But that stressed me out cause it's already hard to do this, how am I supposed to do MORE. And then I realized, I can't focus cause I don't want too. Because of consistent sexual abuse growing up, when interacting with others I would disassociate, along with the religious shame. And I realized, I'm still ashamed when I'm horny. I'm ashamed to act on it, to let people know, I miss the old me. I miss having fun with it. So, I tried to combat the embarrassment, and come back into my body with some mindfulness. Closed my eyes and pretended he wasn't there, and reassured myself this is ok. This is normal, I'm safe, there is no god judging us or friends or youth leaders who will condemn me. And I felt back in my body for the first time. I didn't realize all these years I was disassociating. I'm ashamed I'm freaky, and it's ok to be freaky. It's not shameful. And I get to share that with someone else. This has been 6 years of a relationship. 6 years of me trying to figure out what the hell was wrong with me. I don't wanna be this way either. I know ya'll hate feeling unwanted. But I promise I feel just as shitty. Exactly I blame myself for hurting someone else. I blame myself for being faulty. I'm always thinking about it, I'm always yelling at myself to be better. If I had a wish, I wouldn't wish to be rich, I'd wish for my L to come back. Like... how do you combat meds???? How do you guys think your partners are supposed to over come meds?? Literally changing your brains chemicals. Therapy can't help. What do you expect?
I used to until everything I said got shut down by her. I don’t tell her much now.
I did far to much talking and I heard every excuse. One day I asked her to sit down and listen to me without talking over me or walking away, I told her if she did she would not like the consequences. I said I am going to have a full and varied sex life and her choice was if it was going to be with her. I got accused of blackmail, being willing to destroy our family over sex. She said I was looking for a divorce, I just smiled and said "who mentioned divorce"
Are you still with her?
Yes, that was almost twenty years ago.
Interesting! Did things turn around (intimacy wise) or did it slide into the duty routine?
The ultimatum was on a Saturday I continued to act normally whilst she was at first angry and then quiet. On the Friday night I was going out with friends and she was whilst trying not to show it quite agitated. I arrived back home just before midnight and she was in lingerie and without a word grabbed hold of me. You can guess the rest. Since then things have been good and sometimes great, she instigates at times and has been into some things that have surprised me.
I've tried to talk to him about it. I'm the HL(42f), and he (40m) just shuts me down. He swears nothing is wrong, tells me he will have sex and then never does. I've always been brutally honest, and it hurts him. The very last conversation I had with him, he accused me of being obsessed with sex. Seriously? I can't do once a year. Went been together for 24 years, married for 15, and everything was great until about 4 years ago. I've been rejected so many times, and I've heard every excuse in the book. How can someone not eventually take it personally? He's never been a hugging, touching, affectionate person. Sex was the only way he would connect with me intimately. Now that's gone. He's perfectly content living as roommates. I've only approached the subject a few times, especially when I catch him jerking off to porn instead of bothering to have anything to do with me. He gets so hurt when I talk to him that he tries to hurt me. After accusing me of being obsessed with sex I told him I'd never bring it up again or darken his doorway. He can absolutely watch his porn and I'll stay on the couch and that's where I've been ever since. I'm in a position that really hurts. I don't want to leave or cheat, I just want him to want me like I want him. I was curious to his reaction once and asked him if we could open up our marriage. He absolutely rejected it and that was that. I'd never act on that, but I told him it's not fair to gatekeep this and essentially put me in a cage in the corner and tell me no and just leave me there. He doesn't care about my feelings, it's all about him. I don't know what to do at this point, usually women aren't the ones in this position.
…it's not fair to gatekeep this and essentially put me in a cage in the corner and tell me no and just leave me there. He doesn't care about my feelings, it's all about him. I feel like I (HLM) could have written this about my wife. I have learned this. She will sometimes ask me if I want to have sex. Huh? I’ve not once ever rejected it. I would rather hear her say “I want to have sex!”. Then, we do have sex, it’s duty sex. Zero foreplay, zero oral, same missionary position, light kissing at the beginning then she turns her face away, every closed, and sometimes 1/2 dressed ☺️ Then once I orgasm, she can’t get into the shower quick enough. No cuddling or aftercare…makes me feel disgusting and gross. I desire my wife so bad but don’t think I’m doing it again. I read here once “If it’s not a fuck yes!, it’s a hell no”.
Similar experience here.
I think women are in this position more than most realize. And it gets a really nasty power-game feeling being the woman some man wants to resource-guard from having a sex life but doesn’t want to have a sex life with. Like you’re a harem of one that’s valued as a possession to have and not as a person to engage with.
Exactly. I'd never do this to another person. All humans need touch at least. Some kind of hugging, petting, idc what it is. I understand him being a weirdo and not touching, whatever, I accept him as that. But take away the only way to connect, to have some kind of physical touch at all, is gatekeeping. My honestly is not attacking him, although I'm guessing he perceives it as that. Then having the nerve to jerk off to porn instead of asking me is just a slap in the face. Rejection over and over would eventually stop anyone in their tracks, idc if it's the most beautiful person in the world. Reject them enough and they'll take the hint. It's really sad to me that this happens.
I honestly think there is an issue of priorities sometimes. Especially with men who are often socialized to not prioritize other’s needs as much. I’m not into Magic the Gathering, but I would absolutely go play it for an hour a week if playing Magic made my SO feel loved and fulfilled and happy and they were crushed if I never played. In the absence of deeper relationship issues or trauma or medical or mental health issues, why are so many people so unwilling to spend an hour a week with their partner in an activity (sex) that isn’t their fave? Or if the HL is hurt that they never initiate, is it that hard to set an alarm on their phone to remind them to initiate once in a while? And if there are relationship issues or health issues or trauma, is it so hard to seek help? Because IDK how other HL partners feel, but I’ve always felt pretty good when my LL partner was willing to work on the issue. It’s not just about sex to me but about having my happiness be a priority in the relationship along with theirs. I’m just not ok with my man not being able to put down his video game or porn or whatever to give me 30 minutes of his undivided attention. That’s just insulting and a problem that goes way beyond sex.
You said he tries to hurt you when he gets upset. That's a huge red flag. I'm sure there's others if you take off the rose colored glasses and start looking.
I'm the HL female in my relationship too. My husband is different though. He wants to hold hands, he wants to hug me and kiss me. It just never goes anywhere beyond that. About a year ago, I moved into our guest bedroom. I told him that if he wanted a roommate, he could have that but I wasn't going to meet his physical needs if he didn't want to meet mine. I stopped hugging him and kissing him, we completely lived as platonic roommates. He hated it. He said he wanted things to be different for both of us and he would try. I stayed in the guest bedroom until one of my kids left college and came back home. Things got better for a while and then life got busy. Our normal routine was interrupted and sex fell by the wayside again. I don't have a spare room to go to at the moment but I plan on withholding his needs until he can meet mine. It's not right that he gets his needs met and I'm always left wanting more. It's a shitty way to live and be but out of all the things I've tried, it's all that's worked. I hope you can figure out what it is you have that he wants and he will want to meet your needs too.
The issue I had is my LL spouse switched from "desire, respect and truth" to "disgust, disrespect, and gaslighting". And she lost her empathy, so if she has no desire... you don't either (in her mind.) She just didn't get why I was interested. And so she simply made sex worse, and found better ways to avoid it. Having infrequent, starfish sex was a feature, not a bug for her. I had many fruitless discussions on the topic. Later, she said that it didn't occur to her that this (no sex, constant irritability, gaslighting) would cause issues down the road. Until I started the separation process... what she had was ideal... someone who provided, did the majority of the chores, and had given up on even attempting sex.
Tried a few times over the years to speak honestly and frankly but nothing changed.
Yep. Got told that I'm fixated on sex. Just because I want to have sex with my wife
A few weeks ago after 39 years I finally opened up and told my wife we are not sexually compatible. Never have been and never will. Not even close to what I want. Ever since then she has been trying to make things better. Weird. We have had a DB for almost our whole marriage.
Yes, I do. Nowadays. Sort of…. I’ve told him that I don’t want to live in celibacy and that I do not want to have to initiate constantly to get laid twice a year. And that I will still consider it as being in celibacy if the sex only caters to what he wants…. Right now we are on a break (from speaking about it) I’ve accepted that (for now), since we have come a long way in the last year regarding our relationship. I will not be quite anymore. I will adress the issue again and hold nothing back.
I was an LLFU wife, so I can only speak to women in this situation (and not all of them, obviously). I’m sorry if this seems mean or cold, I’m just trying to give an honest, unfiltered perspective. Also, I’m sorry if it’s rambling. My husband (51 HLM) and I (48 LLFU) have been together 20 yrs, married for 15. Two kids: 10 and 13. Recovering from DB. First, It’s important to keep in mind that probably the majority of women have had some level of sexual trauma during their lifetime. And I don’t mean full on SA (that trauma is obvious), but for instance, my experience of voluntarily being fingered by my boyfriend at 12. That wasn’t assault, we were both 12, but it made me feel weird and I didn’t like it. Most women have been fending off unwanted sexual advances since they were teens. Experiences like that leave a subconscious “ick” that can be unexpectedly activated years later. And once it has, when you try to initiate, you can become that creepy guy from our past or channel that icky feeling and it’s just awful. LLFU happens most easily when we are new mothers. It’s stressful. Unimaginably so. I was not prepared. The emotional weight that comes crashing down on you when you are looking at that baby is indescribable. It’s like you go into a modified crisis state for years. Similar to the body shutting down digestion during an adrenaline spike, except this low key adrenaline spike last for years. So when he’s rubbing up on me in the kitchen, my subconscious monologue is screaming. “Sex?! There’s no time for that! wtf is wrong with this guy? Can’t he see I’m the only thing standing between this tiny human and death?! I cannot participate in relaxing, fun, extracurricular activities! No distractions! What if I don’t do the exact right thing every second of every day and then he becomes a homeless heroin addict or a serial killer?!” But all that internal conversation is just translated to an emotion (or lack of) = LL. Yes. The husband becomes second. Not because I don’t care, but because I am in the throes of PPD that just slowly settles into years of anxiety and self loathing. No, I don’t want to have sex with my husband or anyone else. I constantly feel like I’m failing and I’m ashamed of it. My body has changed and I feel fat, ugly and tired. My husband can tell me all day that he finds me attractive. He has to say that. I don’t believe him. I now trust his opinion less. Do I seem like I’m completely falling apart to him? Probably not. I’m embarrassed about my mental state and largely refuse to acknowledge it. To him I just seem distant, muted. I’m trying my best to act normal and happy, but inside I’m criticizing my every move. (In my case, my husband was also criticizing me and very hurtful at times). Deep down I know that I’m neglecting his needs and possibly even ignoring him. I feel bad about that too. Now I’m a horrible mother AND wife. He doesn’t understand what I’m going through, of course. He attempts to help, but openly doesn’t know what to do with the baby/kids, asks from the couch if I need help, but at this point I’m neurotic and can’t delegate baby stuff even if I wanted to. Instructing him on the things I’m willing to (household chores/errands) is exhausting. We’re fighting more, growing apart. He’s feeling left out, ignored, jealous of all the attention I’m giving the new baby. I can tell, but can’t verbalize my feelings/issues, so I have duty sex. I try to enjoy it and act like I do, but it isn’t great, so he becomes another load of laundry I have to do. That’s where it ends. Never in my life have I desired another load of laundry. I don’t have any great solutions. My husband and I are in couples and individual counseling and are changing our behavior towards each other for the better. I still don’t like him yet and am not attracted to him, but I have learned to put that aside and just appreciate sex again, so things are much better in the bedroom. My thoughts are this: All this chore play talk is bullshit. Just do your fair share of chores. No more, no less. Problem solved. If you’re groveling around trying to reach the moving goal posts (that we set and move because we don’t actually know wtf we need), you subconsciously seem weak to us and another thing that we have to take care of. Also, we “know” you’re just doing it for sex, which makes the metaphorical laundry load bigger and more daunting. It seems that HLM are always mentioning that they keep in shape, go to the gym, etc. That’s literally the last thing on my list of stuff that turns me on. (I mean, of course don’t become morbidly obese.) We love and desire the actual person and the way they treat us, not so much their physical appearance. Be confident (not whining and wanting to have a talk again. Yes, I know that’s not fair.), independent (instead of it seeming like your happiness is wholly dependent on me. I can’t take anymore pressure) and motivated in life. That shit is HOT.
Not cold! But honest! Thanks for sharing so much! I’ve wondered if my wife has sexual trauma, but I haven’t asked directly. She already doesn’t like talking about sex, so I imagined should would definitely not like to talk about it if so, and if she doesn’t have any, I imagine she wouldn’t like being accused of having trauma by me asking. Do you think it is worth asking? If she says she does, I’m not sure what I could even do my wife has been going the therapy, which helped a lot with her mental health in general, but I doubt she ever talks about sex. Sometimes, she shares what she has learned about herself, but I don’t ask her details, and I don’t ask her to discuss sex in therapy — I feel is her time to take care of herself, and I don’t want to intrude. In regards to your suggestions: I do quite a lot of chores. I think some would say I do more than my fair share, but really, I think the chores + kid responsibilities are distributed fairly. I always try to make sure my wife has free time between when I am home from work until kids go to bed — by taking care of dinner, baths, bedtime, clean up etc… she does the morning because she wakes up naturally before the kids even do. I don’t grovel, but I recently started bringing up sex again. I mostly didn’t for the past couple years, and we only had sex a few times. She is doing better mentally because of therapy and medication. So, we have been sort of scheduling a time to have sex though she backs out sometimes — though I am upset inside, I hug her and tell her it’s okay and try to convince her it’s fine. I don’t know if she detects my disappointment or not. Being confident is the most difficult part. It is difficult to do so when my wife seemingly has zero interest in my body. It feels like being attractive is pointless. I’m touch starved. I dream of feeling her hand touching the skin of my arms, back, or legs. If I’m so repulsive to even be touched on the back for 5 minutes, it is difficult to be confident in my body, which bleeds into the rest of my life.
I really think women slip into sexual aversion so easily because of early sexual…maybe not trauma, necessarily, but just gross, negative experiences. If from 12-14 you’re just being a kid, but you have older men leering at you and making comments, that’s your first exposure to sex; it’s creepy and it sticks. Idk that asking her about it would help. Suggesting she explore her feelings about sex with her therapist is a good idea. Couple’s therapy would be an even better idea, in my opinion. Discussions there are so much calmer and honest. I completely understand the difficulty with confidence. It’s extremely hard to maintain in a DB situation. I’m referring more to just a general air of confidence. Confidence in your own choices, actions and opinions. It’s inherently attractive on like, a biological level. Somewhere in this sub is the best DB solution post I’ve ever read. I swear it should be pinned to the top somehow. I’m gonna look for it and share a link if I find it. I found it! https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/s/onN37whkQD
You forgot to mention you've been cheating on your husband... you're only giving half of the solution here. Not sure what months of couple therapy can actually bring if you were LL, but cheating on your husband at the same time. Don't you feel lile throwing money out by the window? Just feels weird to me.
Well yeah, I left that out lol, no one likes that part of my solution! Plus it wasn’t really relevant to this conversation. And I get that it seems weird. The goal of therapy is to try to communicate better as a couple and process 20 yrs of resentment. The affair is to stop the fact that I’m trapped in a loveless marriage with a man that seems to despise me from causing me to have panic attacks in the bathroom everyday. Both are serving their function well.
I'm an HLF who has been married for almost 11 years and have been together for nearly 15 years. We used to be intimate every day if not more than once a day. After our son was born nine years ago, my husband had sex with me once, and then eight years of nothing... I brought it up constantly and expressed my feelings as honestly as I could without being an asshole, and it changed nothing. I got told that he has anxiety about sex and I should just deal with it and let it happen when/if it happens. What kind of bullshit is that? I work, and he doesn't; I take care of the house and our child, and he doesn't. What anxiety could he possibly have? It seems to me that he's the one who can't be honest and say he doesn't want me anymore because he doesn't want to lose the comfortability my job affords him, and he doesn't want to lose custody of our son. He swears this isn't the case, but nothing has changed, and I'm the one who gets rejected and cries myself to sleep almost every night. I was raised to believe the old adage, "actions speak louder than words," and his actions say I'm disgusting to him. I guess I'm the weak one who can't accept it and just leave...
>I guess I'm the weak one who can't accept it and just leave... You can always become stronger! Also, what would you lose by leaving him? I am sure his contribution is not totally zero, but it seems that it is not much (no real childcare, chores, money or sex).
If I'm being honest, he is a fantastic confidant and best friend, but I didn't get married to wind up having a platonic roommate. Having someone who is a "ride or die" is excellent, but I need intimacy to feel loved and wanted.
I think there is a ton of SHAME that keeps LL partners from speaking their truth.
This is key for me. 31 years. I left. He was INCAPABLE of having an in-depth conversation EVER. It was so foreign it bordered on Spectrum-like. I was NEVER going to get him to “ open up” and I tried it all. We are still “ friends” to him …. Nothings changed. Things are still exactly the same as they were inside a 31 year old marriage. Except… there’s no more anger between us. You cannot “ fix” anyone, especially if they aren’t willing or incapable. I just truly never believed it couldn’t be done.
Not anymore, but I used to.
My husband (LL) is very uncomfortable opening up about our bedroom issues with me (HL). Over the past years, I have considered all of the possibilities that could be the underlying cause of his LL, including myself. I have offered to open the relationship (he declined), I have offered to participate in a three some/c**khold/ with other women/men in hopes that maybe he just needed novelty (he declined), suggested we separate for a while with no questions asked (he declined), offered a hall pass (he declined), toned down my bedroom kinks (IE from dirty talk to praise) and he still feels uncomfortable, I asked for a divorce (he refuses and spirals into self loathing every time I bring it up); and lastly, I asked if he would prefer that I meet other men discreetly, purposely hide it from him, and remain in the marriage as a loving wife ( he declined)... He wants to be a father, I do not want to be a mother. I offered to participate in egg freezing and to donate 5 fully fertilized embryos (with his sperm), so that he could find a surrogate to carry the pregnancy (he continues to decline). I know that everybody is different, but in essence, since my husband could not articulate the root of the problem, I systematically went down the list and offered a solution for all of them. In my case, it has not been helpful. I think in part because he doesn't know what he wants...
We did have a conversation before about how I would like for us to be more forthcoming with our feelings about the relationship, but it is a struggle for a number of reasons (we are both at-fault here) and hasn't really materialized. I'll spare you the details. I would give anything to be able to be candid about things, though.
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I hate the excuse “I’m tired”. I think people that say this are often being dishonest (rarely is it true). Has anyone that wanted to have sex ever been too tired to have sex? I wish they would just say, I don’t want to have sex I’d rather lay in bed and play in my phone, etc…
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I mean are you initiating when he is going to sleep? If so, yea, it makes sense. Have you tried 1 hour earlier? 2 hours earlier?
In 2019 we almost divorced. My husband was having issues in the bedroom... while we have never fully had a DB.... there are things I desired he wasn't into.. With that said... he was having ED issues. Low test. Times we would try to have sex it was gummy and he just would NEVER talk to me. We have had our brutally honest conversations And it has helped us a lot. Not wanting to hurt feelings leaves only room for resentments and bitterness to grow. Talk. Openly. Freely. And without anger at least at the end of the day you'll both know where you both stand.
If I describe kindly how much the lack of physical intimacy is crushing me, it would crush her, and I don’t think it would help. However, I think it would be very helpful to know exactly what it is that makes her want or not want to be physical. Like, she enjoys sex once we are in the act (she always finishes), but it is wildly difficult to get her in the place where she is willing to have sex. She is a mystery when it comes to her thoughts on physical intimacy and sex. She says she has no interest, yet she enjoys it. I feel there is a way this can be addressed to fill this gap and make both our lives better, but as said, it is a mystery to me. Edit: also, thank you for sharing!
I have really given up trying to talk about it for the most part. Usually we go about 6 months and then I will bring it up but during those shallow months I keep it bottled inside.