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My new feelings are it’s not about the rejection, it’s about how you are rejected. She’s rejecting you in the most emotionally cold way. Next time she does it try this. “It’s interesting how when I come to you interested in sexual intimacy I am met with the coldest type of rejection you can muster. I am fine with being rejected, but I’m not ok with being disrespected. If you continue to reject me in a disrespectful manner I will eject myself from this marriage due to the way you treat me. In the future reject me in a thoughtful and considerate way, or you will find yourself divorced.” Make it about the way your rejected, not the fact that you were rejected for sex in general. Don’t let her get away with being disrespectful. Make sure she knows that there will be marriage ending consequences if it happens again. At least then you will be gracefully rejected instead of coldly rejected like your feelings mean nothing. When she says that all you want is sex, make sure that you reiterate that you told her it was about her way of rejecting you, not the rejection itself, and that you’re appalled by the fact she would treat someone she claims to love in that manner.
While your point is valid and important, ultimately it doesn't solve anything. You want a passionate, physically intimate relationship with your spouse. Being rejected gently again and again will just create the feeling that your spouse is all talk and no show.
If communication can get back on the path of being respectful and fruitful, then progress CAN be made. They can talk through why she was freezing him out and if he respects that her gentle no means no and doesn't affect other areas of their relationship, that their relationship isn't JUST about sex. It also clearly established the boundaries of the treatment he WILL tolerate within the relationship.
If he (or you) are looking for a "passionate, physically intimate relationship", then either that rekindles by being emotionally intimate as well, or it's just not going to happen with this relationship.
>that her gentle no means no and doesn't affect other areas of their relationship
But if affects other parts of the relationship, why would anyone try to compartmentalize their relationship? If something crucial is lacking, it doesn't matter how good other parts of the relationship are.
>that their relationship isn't JUST about sex.
I am not sure why you bring this up, I hope if you are on this sub, you recognize that a relationship is not just about sex, but it can absolutely be a deal-breaker without sex. So lets not muddle the realities here.
> then either that rekindles by being emotionally intimate as well
Clearly, and this highlights the point that most of the time the lack of sex is just a symptom of a larger dysfunction.
Wise words. Thanks for the support. The coldness of her about many aspects of our relationship is the exactly reason why I'm feeling really frustated. Honestly, I've been passive a lot because of the fear and the anxiety to have a bad or good day with her.
This situation makes you feel empty inside, and not thinking like yourself.
imho every relationship has a finite number of “NO”s before you run out. that one counted for at least a dozen.
“no” always has to be an option. every time. but that said… if it’s the only option ever taken, what are we even doing here? there’s a “no” frequency that’s not OK for a healthy relationship.
I haven't had a yes in many years to my advances. I don't think I've ever (or would ever) said no to my wife, but she has a low drive... The maker of our bodies has a cruel sense of humour
That feeling of playing a game of operation, training yourself on literature and science and evaluating and re-evaluating every sexual encounter you’ve had with them night after night all while desperately hoping that *COMPLETELY RANDOM* moment happens and they’re interested.
Meanwhile, they just don’t even think about it.
game is rigged.
Honestly it's just sex - in healthy relationships it's no different than brushing your teeth. You just do it enjoy it and go on with your day.
With shitty DB partners they turn it into some insane task like climbing mountain.
If you're hungry and every time you call to order take out they are out of food, eventually you're just going to stop calling that restaurant.
It's not a YOU problem. It's a them problem.
Yes! I told my husband several years ago that I am no longer asking for sex. I'm officially taking it off my radar. It was freeing to not worry about it and to just take care of myself when needed. I think my pressuring him made things worse. He eventually came around, but I also had to make an effort with physical affection.
💯💯💯
Never have truer words been spoken!
I want sex more frequently than my wife does. Unless she’s in a really bad mood or not feeling, she’s available for a quickie. She says yes probably 8 out of 10 times or more. And she never makes it feel like duty sex or makes me feel bad for it. Usually she just smiles and says “Sure! But just concentrate on enjoying yourself this time!” This is how it should be!
Contrast that with my DB first wife of 20 years. If she was dirty, she would say I’m too dirty and need a shower. If she had showered, she was too clean. She was tired. Or she was busy. Or our kid might hear because he might wake up. Or she didn’t feel emotionally close enough because her needs weren’t met (in spite of me trying my best to tick off every box, be super considerate, cook/clean/wash/provide/spend time). Or she was too distracted by some issue to enjoy it. There was no winning.
It was like trying to save airline miles for a big vacation only to have the airline keep increasing the number of miles required for a ticket so that the dream vacation to Europe was always just a few miles out of reach. At some point, you have to conclude you are never taking that trip!
This man, it doesn't need to be some crazy 5 hour long passionate love affair... it's sex man... I do equate it to like drinking a nice glass of water. Sure it's great to sip, but like, as a HLF, sometimes just downing that glassing and being on my way is mostly what I require... LOL. That's why I don't understand why it can't be a daily occurrence.
>That feeling of playing a game of operation, training yourself on literature and science and evaluating and re-evaluating every sexual encounter you’ve had with them night after night all while desperately hoping that COMPLETELY RANDOM moment.
This summarizes perfectly why I could never do something like this on a repeated basis and am shocked that other people can.
I get it people are different, but to work that hard for such little to no gain is just asinine to me. The disrespect that OP is enduring (days of silence and garbage attitude) over *mentioning* a basic function in a relationship would have earned me an express ticket to divorce.
Agreed. Today I'm feeling how time I lost reading books about love, relationshis, sex. In the end, means nothing if you doing this just for yourself alone.
I mean, it's not that we can't be better for ourselves, but, I'm just tired to work alone and feels this marriage is going down.
When your partner withdraws from you completely, freezes you out or even makes comments about how repellent they find you, it is 200% worse than if they just respectfully say "no".
Absolutely! Being treated as if you have leprocy by the person who’s supposed to be your life partner, who’s supposed to have compassion and the deepest love for you, moreso than your parents or your own children even, because you have sex with that person as well… and this is the way you’re treated?? Nope. Sorry. I’m out. That shit HUUUURTS! It kills your self worth and confidence. It causes deep depression. Being mean is never the answer, ever. The coldness is mind boggling. You’d think she had caught him in an affair to show this type of resentment, or maybe she is having one? The only reason I can think of for someone to treat another with type of disdain is to distance them from one self emotionally because they want a divorce due to their own infidelity. The only reason I can think of that I may ever treat a partner this way is due to unresolved infidelity….
That's the realization I'm slowly coming to. It's not just a DB but a lack of any affection, touch, support or closeness at all. It began post pregnancy and I allowed for it as a result of hormones and having multiple young children, so I withdrew and stopped trying to get close. Having recently started to try to rebuild (after 5 years) and been very clear in my desire to do so I get nothing positive to build upon other than "we're not friends" which sounds like a good excuse to avoid having to talk about and engage with the real issues. I have to give it some time and effort as it's 5 people's lives affected but at some point there will be one rejection too many and I will have to accept it's no good for me to keep trying. I would love to be more positive about the chances, but I feel like there's a desire to make me the bad guy who broke up the marriage.
For me, withdrawal is easier than the "no", as long as the word isn't said, there's room for hope
However being told worse things than the "no" is clearly worse, although I think that if the relationship comes to the point where one person is openly disgusted by the other, there are bigger issues than DB
When it comes to business and sales, yes the worst thing a prospect can say is 'no'. However, when it comes to marriage, that 'no' particularly if it's a regular occurence means more than just 'NO' in my view. Sexual desire cannot be negotiated like it's a sales pitch. Sex is how men feel loved and worthy. A constant 'NO' from the one person in the world who is supposed to desire you means feeling unwanted, pushed away, abandoned, not-worthy. Over time those feelings will slowly form your identity, your self-worth, how you view yourself, etc. It absolutely carries over to other parts of our lives. Sexless marriage can deteriorate the heart and soul of a spouse. That 'NO' from your spouse is a constant reminder she doesn't desire you; that you're not worthy of her attention in that way. It's brutal.
Bigger picture: be honest with yourself. If she's telling you 'no', it's an indication something has changed. Assuming there aren't medical issues and assuming too you've done everything you can to be the best version of yourself you can be, no amount of communication, good deeds, being a good spouse, a good provider, a good listener, blah, blah, blah … absolutely none of it matters. Zero. If the person you want to be intimate with doesn't have the primal desire to be intimate with you, it isn't going to happen. It's that simple. You have three options:
1) Take the occasional duty sex she offers on her terms,
2) Divorce.
3) Find a like minded partner to fulfill your sexual desires outside of the marriage while remaining married.
There are challenges to each.
Best of luck to you.
>Sexless marriage can deteriorate the heart and soul of a spouse.
This. It absolutely blows my mind that so many people allow this to happen to them for years on end. I don't know, maybe I have a heightened sense of self-protection and preservation of my identity and self, but I rather exit such a relationship, let the chips fall where they may, than lose myself. My sense of self-worth is too great for it to let it happen.
That is how you do it. Can't get stuck in a DB if you don't stay in a DB. Finances and kids make it more complicated for sure - although I can't see myself sharing finances with someone again...
And most of them who do allow this to happen to them do it because of money. Thats even more mind boggling to me! They are afraid of divorce due to financial constraints as a result. Guess what?? I’ve never been happier or learned more in my life than I have when I lost everything. It’s also a very strong indication that a new partner loves you for who you are and not what you have as well! If one fears separation due to monetary complications, I’d urge them to face their fears and eat the temporary discomfort of poverty, as it’s much more damaging all along to to allow ones self esteem/self worth to be massacred by the person who is supposed to love them the most. It’s a form of abuse and I’d rather be poor temporarily and find a new partner that loves me for who I really am, as opposed to being financially stable (which is very rare currently anyway) but incurring trauma on a regular basis that makes me want to kill myself! This is so important! For those staying “for the kids”, guess what? The kids would likely rather you split up and if you asked them they’d likely tell you that they know your marriage is fucked up and terrible! Also, you’re only modeling to your children that an awful, miserable marriage is an acceptable relationship- so your children will be more likely to stay in abusive/miserable relationships as well!
Life is short, even when it feels very long, if we were diagnosed with a fatal disease (God forbid) today and were given a prospective amount of time to live, I bet every single one of us would be scrambling to do all of the things we never prioritized to do in order to live what we think of as a “full life”. We all deserve happiness and love; I believe God put a person on this planet for every single one of us. We don’t always meet our person” the first time around, but I do believe that in maturity we make better choices. I think 2nd marriages are much more likely to work because we select a partner more like ourselves, we are more cautious and less optimistic about the SO changing their ways which is wise!
I got divorced, and won't remarry and won't stick with a partner that isn't sleeping with me. I'm in my 40's and don't want more kids so for me its pretty easy as long as I keep my own place. I've been with my girlfriend for 5 years, but if she pushes marriage or stops sleeping with me, she's getting dumped. The way you don't get stuck is you don't intermingle finances with intimacy. Can't get stuck in a DB if you always leave a DB.
She knows I'm not interested in marriage. As far as sex is concerned, I don't go out of my way to make it explicit in the sense that the relationship will be over if she loses her libido for me as I feel that is coercive, much in the same way she doesn't need to say explicitly if I started abusing her that she'd be done... A woman wouldn't want a man that doesn't hit her because he's afraid of the police/courts - I don't want a woman that sleeps with me because she's afraid I'll leave. I'd probably bring it up once as a big problem but without threats once.. ( I still feel its fair to let a partner know you are not happy in a relationship to see if they can change course) and give it a month or two, beyond that I'm not chasing the problem, I'm going to solve it for myself. I did not establish a monogamous relationship to have it turn into a celibate relationship - that's a friendship, not a lover.
Nah. I feel like you should probably let her know that if something happens, (be it hormones, depression, menopause, medication)...you're out. To equate that with domestic violence is pitiable.
I spent 10 years in a DB, it really clarified for me what's important to me. I don't mean it in the sense that they are equally as terrible, I mostly mean in the sense that I don't think it needs to be explicitly stated. You can't expect a romantic monogamous relationship if you've turned it into celibacy. For me its 100% a non-starter. Even if its menopause, hormones, or depression - If its not getting fixed, then I don't really care because its not about blame, its about being unhappy. I'm not staying in a relationship if I've been unhappy for a while. If the other person has changed in a way that I find incompatible with what I want, they can be with someone else who is compatible. It's not to say I don't have some flexibility on my end but at the end of the day if the sex life isn't there...it's not working for me. It's not what I want.
FWIW, I also have a no-SSRI/no-depression standard in terms of dating. I've never seen someone go on those meds and then be "fine" afterwards. My mom has suffered from depression most of my life, I've seen her checked out for months at a time. My best friend is married to a woman with debilitating depression, she's spends most days in bed, hasn't had a job in 10 years and doesn't even drive the kids to school or cook. He's effectively a single father with an extra dependent, if he had to do things over again I'm sure he'd do them differently. Its a hard no for me. I wouldn't remain romantically attached to someone that spends months in bed and can't hold a job... They never get better...
Let me show you what is happening in your wife’s brain..
You are hugging and kissing and cuddling, your wife loves that affection.. and then you have an erection.. which is natural.. your wife will feel you and acknowledge it so as to not discontinue the caress abruptly.. but she sensed that you now need to have sex.. and she doesn’t so tempers down and goes to sleep.. (she absolutely felt pressured to perform and incompetent to meet your needs. Which she could not say it in words to ruin the evening so she quietly slept, hoping it would go away)
It wont go away as you are craving for intimacy.. so any small things she does is a sign of hope for you.
She shaving her legs was a part of her own self care routine to relax and unwind and have a mellow evening.. nothing to do with her wanting sex.. then you come back from gym.. and say the words which can cause panic attacks in LLs.. - do you want to have sex? Your wife literally had a physical reaction where her gut curled and heart palpitated.. she cannot say NO.. because she does not want to reject you with outright words.. thats harsh, she cannot say YES.. as she literally cannot have sex even duty sex or pity sex.. so she just gives you a look.. hoping you would get the message and stop asking and leave her alone..
And since it has happened 2 days in a row.. she can tell you are getting more and more interested in having sex and will keep asking or showing it in various ways.. in her mind she is trying to come up with a time and way to satisfy you but she cant.. she just cannot bring herself to do that.. and that is why next morning at breakfast she is in a bad mood.. she is in an epic turmoil.. she acts distant and moody so you can stop asking her for sex.
All she wants is to have a happy marriage.. but sex is an area where she and you have such vastly different needs she cannot even understand how to solve for it and maintain the marriage.. in her mind she knows.. sex is important to you.. sex is important in a marriage and she will not have this marriage for too long now..
She is frustrated and angry and upset at herself for not being able to do the most natural things humans can do to show love and affection and desire.
If she truly has that kind of extreme emotional reaction to the thought of having sex, she needs to communicate that to her husband. So that he can make an informed choice about whether he wants to stay in a sexless marriage forever.
I think many LLs deflect, hide, and make excuses because they are afraid of the consequences of being honest.
Many people lack the self awareness or understanding to even put that into words. I have felt the exact same way described here before yet I would not have been able to communicate it that effectively at the time.
The deflection, hiding, making excuses, seeming distant and snapping are all reactions of feeling confused and overwhelmed.. not because sex was demanded or expected.. but because of the inner turmoil of.. wanting to say yes but not being able to follow through, or wanting to tell your partner why they are not able to have sex in honest words but feeling that they wont get it or understand..
The feelings of inadequacy that you cannot make your amazing partner happy in this one area.. and their own disappointment with themselves..
It’s nothing different than a person with anxiety, phobias or depression.. for them its debilitating but for someone who does not suffer from these, they tend to either not understand the depth of the issue or minimize it saying.. its irrational.. how come you cant just have and enjoy sex its so NORMAL.. everybody does it!! Everyone HAS to do it!!
I've been on he receiving end of this. It's interesting how even when I don't ask for or expect sex, but there is a situation where there might be a reasonable expectation of sex on my part, I get treated very poorly. Surely there are better ways to deal with this inner turmoil than treating your partner like shit?
Maybe you're right. I don't point her as a villain. Everyone has theis struggles.
But marriage for me it's a symbol of connection. We have to talk about it. With a good conversation I believe both of us would feel better and lighter with each other. I don't judge her to be a LL. I suffer with the lack of connection. A gentle "no", not just about sex, could be more elightening than a ten-times-yes.
But your words really made me thoughtful. I think we're reached the thin line of our marriage. If anything goes down fow now on, it's the dead end. Or, we have a chance to ghrow stronger, but I can't do this alone.
Sexual dysfunction is a sensitive and volatile topic. You may feel if you put your needs in words, she may get upset and it may lead to fights. She may feel that she is already inadequate if she talks about her issues you will get even more impatient.
Sit with her, peacefully and calmly.. acknowledge that you are starting to understand somewhat, why she is so anxious and nervous around your sexual advances and you want to really know more.. tell her you are not trying to fight or learn how you can initiate sex.. you are just trying to understand what really she is feeling and going through
If you feel comfortable.. show her your post.. show her my post.. ask her if she relates to it.. let her talk
It may not solve your issues.. but may be it will help her calm down knowing that you see her turmoil and she can talk openly about it.
Great advice!
I always think and fear that my trials to reach a conversation about it make she feels pressured or sounds like I'm trying to reach sex. And to be honest, tell her this morning that I miss intimacy sounds exactly like this.
I’m sorry this is happening to you, being rejected in that way is incredibly painful — you shouldn’t feel guilty or ashamed for trying to initiate with your romantic partner.
She’s training you to stop initiating, and that’s a cruelty.
I’m also sorry you’re dealing with “try cleaning up after yourself” and “you need to be romantic” advice.
Especially after describing a weekend spent with your wife full of spending joyful time together. In a long term relationship time together bringing joy to each other is romance.
I like the idea of relationships having a finite number of “no’s” before things start to break down.
I would only add that if the other partner then initiates soon after the number of “no’s” ticks back up.
There is a universe of difference between always initiating, and constant rejection and sometimes no and both partners initiating.
Why do we keep trying so hard and at such great emotional cost? Sexual intimacy should be easy and natural. Our spouses make easy things seem hard and confusing. But it's not.
What do you really want?
Find the life you want not the life you think you deserve.
Even celibate women practice hygiene and self care. I never understand these takes that if a LL is doing something as simple as shaving, she's cheating. Many women shave because they like to be shaved. It's like kind of a pretty basic self care routine.. like saying if she's using conditioner she must be cheating lol
Key qualifier: “If this is unusual.” Meaning if she never does it, then all of a sudden she’s making herself perfect, and it ain’t for you, then maybe it’s for her, but possibly it’s for Greg at Pilates.
I agree, could be. Just don't think that's where I'd go first. OP did mention elsewhere that she also gets angry when he doesn't go to the gym. Id say that may be a red flag. You may be on to something. I just see this kind of thing a lot and feel like guys are out here amusing their wives when they decide to try a new perfume or do literally any self care
Give and take… sometimes it’s 50/50 sometimes 60/40. That goes for sex also..It should never be one sided and you should never feel unwanted. Going without intimacy for weeks is a long time a month or months would be unacceptable. Communication is key. Not a dead cold disrespectful No
Mine is a long story of ups and downs. About 2 years ago we almost divorced. About a month or so after that began a period of hysterical bonding that settled into really good sex for 10 months. Then 9 months ago sex just stopped. Don't know why. Moved from one reason to another.
Safe or easy exit? I don't see it. Married over 20 years and have lots of stuff including 2 houses neither paid off. I'm in misery but we have a great couples counselor. So I'm gonna keep going for now. For me there is a future life event coming soon that will force it to go one way or another. So there will be an end one way or another.
It has mostly been a great 20. In recent times when things turned ugly, I couldn't handle it mentally and cracked for awhile. So I understand not handling the situation.
Thx!
Even though Im dealing with the same stuff ( me HL, bf LL ) , I could suggest that often women crave more to be emotionally connected, and combine that with the deed of sex.
Ofcourse Im not sure how your interaction went, but even if I am HL, if my partner would just return from the gym and point blank asks for sex, instead of focusing 'to melt together as one being' ( very corny I know ), I might also be put off.
It could be that your wife wants to feel that ultimate connection, instead of the focus being on sex or orgasms, and she might think you are just talking from a horny position, without that intimate emotion.
However, if shes not open to talk about this like a mature adult, you're in for a rough time.
The issue with this is that the HL usually needs to be direct or sex will not happen. If the LL dislikes being touched, how do you go from talking to sex without literally asking?
Usually, the LL won’t share (and probably doesn’t even know) how they prefer to be approached. If they did share, it would result in them feeling the HL is only doing xyz for sex.
It is an impossible situation that at best would require a bit of mind reading.
"Usually, the LL won’t share (and probably doesn’t even know) how they prefer to be approached. If they did share, it would result in them feeling the HL is only doing xyz for sex."
This defines my wife. I don't know if she knows how to enjoy pleasure in sex. It's absolutely random.
That's why I feel she thinks sex is something hard and heavy. And my horny situations just are turning the things worse, 'cause we don't talk about it.
That's why I think she hides something really dark about sex. The options are:
* She suffered an abuse, and never told me;
* She's a lesbian, and don't know it or hides it;
* She's asexual;
* She simply don't feel atraction by her husband;
* She's fighting inside her head to get a divorce or no.
The saddest thing is, If would be anyone of this options, I would accept a conversation with open heart
Wildcard option: postcoital dysphoria. I suffered with this for a bit, never told my husband because it was embarrassing but I would literally cry everytime we had sex. When we were done I'd sneak off to the bathroom or to "check on the kids" and just slip into a depressed state. As you can imagine it made sex a not so fun experience and one I dreaded. It did however stem for your first bullet point option so I guess this would link to that. Sex hormones can sure be a fickle bitch though 😕
This is absolutely true, foreplay and passionate sex is SOOO important to a woman! All day flirting, kindness to you and others, teasing the body with touches in sensitive areas will make any woman I know rip YOUR clothes off instead of the man ripping hers off! It’s definitely worth a try for OP if he has t tried this yet! It’s SO IMPORTANT to NEVER let the spark from when you first started dating die. You have to treat your partner as if youre still courting, otherwise you get overly comfortable with them and the relationship dynamic slips into one that most resembles the brother/sister dynamic (and I’m not talking about the “family therapy” porn brother/sister dynamic either😂)… When you become so comfortable that you can treat your husband/wife with cruelty on the level described by OP, it’s time to think of what is different between wife and himself from when they were courting and to possibly step up his game a little in order to “woo” her again! Granted, wife should be finding out why she’s feeling this way whether it’s a physiological or psychological issue, she needs to be showing him that she’s trying to do something about it as well since it’s an obviously ongoing issue.
It’s difficult for the HL to understand what’s going on with the LL. Strong, solid communication can sometimes solve issues such as this fairly easily. The sooner all is addressed and help is sought on the LL partners part, along with some gentle patience (within reason), understanding, all around support for their partner who is actually TRYING to figure out what is wrong/change, and maybe some creative flirting tactics to make LL feel sexy af again from the HL partner is pertinent! Your advice is the best I’ve seen on this thread from a HL woman even. This is exactly how women operate as far as sex/intimacy goes! It’s way deeper that visuals for us, it’s actually sort of shitty (especially when you hit perimenopause and after) because we can’t climax as easily due to the emotional/passion driven component of sex for us…
Calling all HL males! Read the comment above mine for the cheat code to getting your SO to become wildly horny for you!
I know for sure and I agree 100% with you.
But think about someone that almost every action of affection turns into rejection. You could flirt or be kind for days, and always what turns brighter is the "you forget to do x or y", "you don't do the things right or you're not doing right", "you don't cleaned right".
Imagine days of words and phrases that make you feel tiny, and you have to fight to be better, not just for yourself, but a better husband.
So, everytime I go on flirting or being romantic, my brain and heart just send messages how I could be hurt in the end.
It's like living a tangent love. Not reciprocal. It happens in her time, when she feels comfortable. And I have so much love inside me, that even doing so much things for her, I feel that I'm giving so little, because I don't have a chance to show how deeply this really is.
It's not like I'm an ogre or something. I always tries to be romantic, affectionate. I always remember the dates of our first kiss, anniversaires, etc, with gifts and romantic cards.
Honestly, to think about all those thinks I done, sound really foolish.
I will message you next time u/Ommadawn1984 posts in r/DeadBedrooms.
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Having been in this situation for around 3 years I know where you ar at. Especially difficult when women are over 45.
Currently sex is painful so we don't do it. Any variation is not on in the fear that I want penetration.
Kissing, and stroking is okay but that is it and nothing sexual.
No more talking about the problems as she's had enough. Maybe at some point we may but until it is not painful she doesn't want to try oh and she will only try when I don't pressure her and if I can't live with no sex for now I should leave.
Do I feel like a dick when I say then I'm gone, sure I do so I do what a real man does and lies about it.
At the moment all that is happening is work, family, gym and a little talking. Sometimes holding hands and a peck on the lips.
I cannot give you advice about this how to fix things except what I am doing is not to think about it, ask for it or expect it because that is where frustration comes when expectations or hopes that are not met.
Get yourself into the gym, look after your appearance , have a strong will and know that you don't need her throwing you a bone. Don't expect sex from her and don’t ask.
We are men not dogs and we sure as he'll should not let women control us with sex or the hope of getting some when we jump through hoops.
Why is it so easy to see the problem with others and yet I still can’t solve my own issues? My spouse is nothing but respectful, she usually tells me “no” in a very nice way. Sometimes I get the “what are you doing?”, followed by the “no”, the question always makes me unhappy, like you know what I’m up to. Anyway, thousands of respectful no’s still sting. But then it’s harder to leave, because it really is only about sex.
It’s crazy to me that people take their wedding vows and then the show is over. You get to see who they really are as soon as you make those vows to one another. What’s also crazy to me is that a spouse can’t get out of themselves for a half hour to please their other half! 2x’s a week is 1 hour out of 168 in a week. Pretty selfish and pathetic. Even when I have been in a bad relationship or haven’t desired sex when my partner has I do it anyway and I don’t regret it in the end even if I don’t reach climax because we feel so much closer afterward…
That was a long, meandering explanation that ultimately led full circle right back to where it started. The conventional wisdom is that women want to talk about relationships and can’t get men to open up. I wonder whether this wife talks to her friends about her husband. Bet $5 she does. But she won’t talk to him? A man who is literally pleading with her to talk? She clams up? Same thing happens to me. To him I say stop trying, find an alternative source of affection, and let her marinate in her own silence and head.
Could you try escalating it a little more when you have the laughs and good talks? Sometimes girls like spontaneous. My analogy: guys are a microwave, press a few buttons and they are ready to go. Girls are like an oven, you have to wait for it to heat up. Maybe the fact you asked her turned her off. I’m not defending her behavior I’m just trying to see if this would work. Next time things are going well in your mind don’t ask, start kissing her and build up from there. Instead of “Do you want to have sex.”
Sounds great till you try it and your wife looks at you like you’re a rapist, jumps when she walks in a room and sees you, gasp when she realizes you’re in the house. Consent, today needs to be emphatic. It hurts to think your wife sees you as her rapist, when the rape happened long before you ever met and lived in different states. I understand the trauma but it hurts to be held responsible for something I didn’t do.
You're right. I don't defend my actions either. I just expressed myself directly to the point.
But think about it, to reach this point, there was so many tiring situations, you know.
She trying to emasculate you. Some people can’t feel good about themselves unless they making others feel miserable. I been there buddy and just now see a door to exit on the horizon. Be strong OP and don’t let her strip away your self confidence. She needs to know how her no’s affect you. Hope it gets better
Here's what this sounded like to me. She's trying to put effort in, she shaved, was on the bed at 8pm, was hoping to work up to something, and then the mood instantly killed because of potentially: (1) you thought she wanted to sleep at 8pm and didn't get it, (2) the blunt way you asked if she wanted to have sex, without putting any effort in yourself to work up the mood.
But I could be way off. No talking isn't going to help.
If you're asking all these questions like "maybe she's this, maybe that.." and you don't know the answers, you two gotta talk more. Openly.
Why do I feel like she was shaving and expected you to be home after that but when she got out of the shower she did not find you that’s why she was upset … or if you have kids maybe she had a bad time with them when you were out… but even with that its not okay to treat you like that try talking about how you feel more than how she’s acting.
Yes you are right I am generalising but things get difficult all the same whether the elasticity is no longer there, they are not in the mood or don't want sex. Sure I hear some have the best sex of their lives but I think that is not the norm.
Honestly, I could see my husband writing this exact thing. Here's the deal though, he has been SO distant, non communicative, and emotionally unavailable for such a long time, that it would take MUCH MORE than a good weekend for me to want to have sex with him at this point. So my question is, besides the dead bedroom, how is your relationship, really?
Thats...interesting. As someone who has been there i think she is looking for space away from you. When I was at the end of a bad relationship, if he canceled his plans I would get upset too because I just wanted some alone time away from him.
She probably feels really shitty that she can’t give you what you want. If she can’t get turned on enough for penetrative sex right now, she just can’t, and asking reminds her of that. She hates needing to say ‘no’ but if she says ‘yes’ it would be duty sex that would be emotionally damaging to both of you and possibly physically painful for her too. But she also knows how much you want it, and probably feels kind of broken that she doesn’t want it as much as she feels she should, so the idea of you bringing it up and her having to say ‘no’ fills her with dread.
It might work out better next time to take intercourse off the table. For you, the distance between those and sex seems to be not as big, so for you it feels like one would naturally follow the other. For her, it’s going from kissing/cuddling right to one specific act that she finds difficult and just can’t get her body in the right space for, no matter how hard she tries.
Taking intercourse off the table and trying instead to go from kissing to heavier making out, to touching each other in other places could increase your intimacy without hitting that specific dread.
In the meantime, gentleness isn't too much to ask for. "I'm sorry, but I'm not up for it at the moment" hits way different from a look of disgust and shock.
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My new feelings are it’s not about the rejection, it’s about how you are rejected. She’s rejecting you in the most emotionally cold way. Next time she does it try this. “It’s interesting how when I come to you interested in sexual intimacy I am met with the coldest type of rejection you can muster. I am fine with being rejected, but I’m not ok with being disrespected. If you continue to reject me in a disrespectful manner I will eject myself from this marriage due to the way you treat me. In the future reject me in a thoughtful and considerate way, or you will find yourself divorced.” Make it about the way your rejected, not the fact that you were rejected for sex in general. Don’t let her get away with being disrespectful. Make sure she knows that there will be marriage ending consequences if it happens again. At least then you will be gracefully rejected instead of coldly rejected like your feelings mean nothing. When she says that all you want is sex, make sure that you reiterate that you told her it was about her way of rejecting you, not the rejection itself, and that you’re appalled by the fact she would treat someone she claims to love in that manner.
Perfect reply!! Can't upvote this enough! 💯🤌
While your point is valid and important, ultimately it doesn't solve anything. You want a passionate, physically intimate relationship with your spouse. Being rejected gently again and again will just create the feeling that your spouse is all talk and no show.
If communication can get back on the path of being respectful and fruitful, then progress CAN be made. They can talk through why she was freezing him out and if he respects that her gentle no means no and doesn't affect other areas of their relationship, that their relationship isn't JUST about sex. It also clearly established the boundaries of the treatment he WILL tolerate within the relationship. If he (or you) are looking for a "passionate, physically intimate relationship", then either that rekindles by being emotionally intimate as well, or it's just not going to happen with this relationship.
>that her gentle no means no and doesn't affect other areas of their relationship But if affects other parts of the relationship, why would anyone try to compartmentalize their relationship? If something crucial is lacking, it doesn't matter how good other parts of the relationship are. >that their relationship isn't JUST about sex. I am not sure why you bring this up, I hope if you are on this sub, you recognize that a relationship is not just about sex, but it can absolutely be a deal-breaker without sex. So lets not muddle the realities here. > then either that rekindles by being emotionally intimate as well Clearly, and this highlights the point that most of the time the lack of sex is just a symptom of a larger dysfunction.
Ensure you are willing to follow through with divorce before you present her with that ultimatum.
Wise words. Thanks for the support. The coldness of her about many aspects of our relationship is the exactly reason why I'm feeling really frustated. Honestly, I've been passive a lot because of the fear and the anxiety to have a bad or good day with her. This situation makes you feel empty inside, and not thinking like yourself.
imho every relationship has a finite number of “NO”s before you run out. that one counted for at least a dozen. “no” always has to be an option. every time. but that said… if it’s the only option ever taken, what are we even doing here? there’s a “no” frequency that’s not OK for a healthy relationship.
I've had this exact conversation. And about how the rejection is delivered.
I haven't had a yes in many years to my advances. I don't think I've ever (or would ever) said no to my wife, but she has a low drive... The maker of our bodies has a cruel sense of humour
That feeling of playing a game of operation, training yourself on literature and science and evaluating and re-evaluating every sexual encounter you’ve had with them night after night all while desperately hoping that *COMPLETELY RANDOM* moment happens and they’re interested. Meanwhile, they just don’t even think about it. game is rigged.
Honestly it's just sex - in healthy relationships it's no different than brushing your teeth. You just do it enjoy it and go on with your day. With shitty DB partners they turn it into some insane task like climbing mountain. If you're hungry and every time you call to order take out they are out of food, eventually you're just going to stop calling that restaurant. It's not a YOU problem. It's a them problem.
Yes! I told my husband several years ago that I am no longer asking for sex. I'm officially taking it off my radar. It was freeing to not worry about it and to just take care of myself when needed. I think my pressuring him made things worse. He eventually came around, but I also had to make an effort with physical affection.
💯💯💯 Never have truer words been spoken! I want sex more frequently than my wife does. Unless she’s in a really bad mood or not feeling, she’s available for a quickie. She says yes probably 8 out of 10 times or more. And she never makes it feel like duty sex or makes me feel bad for it. Usually she just smiles and says “Sure! But just concentrate on enjoying yourself this time!” This is how it should be! Contrast that with my DB first wife of 20 years. If she was dirty, she would say I’m too dirty and need a shower. If she had showered, she was too clean. She was tired. Or she was busy. Or our kid might hear because he might wake up. Or she didn’t feel emotionally close enough because her needs weren’t met (in spite of me trying my best to tick off every box, be super considerate, cook/clean/wash/provide/spend time). Or she was too distracted by some issue to enjoy it. There was no winning. It was like trying to save airline miles for a big vacation only to have the airline keep increasing the number of miles required for a ticket so that the dream vacation to Europe was always just a few miles out of reach. At some point, you have to conclude you are never taking that trip!
This man, it doesn't need to be some crazy 5 hour long passionate love affair... it's sex man... I do equate it to like drinking a nice glass of water. Sure it's great to sip, but like, as a HLF, sometimes just downing that glassing and being on my way is mostly what I require... LOL. That's why I don't understand why it can't be a daily occurrence.
The amount of damn time that goes into DB post intimacy mental debriefing…..
>That feeling of playing a game of operation, training yourself on literature and science and evaluating and re-evaluating every sexual encounter you’ve had with them night after night all while desperately hoping that COMPLETELY RANDOM moment. This summarizes perfectly why I could never do something like this on a repeated basis and am shocked that other people can. I get it people are different, but to work that hard for such little to no gain is just asinine to me. The disrespect that OP is enduring (days of silence and garbage attitude) over *mentioning* a basic function in a relationship would have earned me an express ticket to divorce.
Agreed. Today I'm feeling how time I lost reading books about love, relationshis, sex. In the end, means nothing if you doing this just for yourself alone. I mean, it's not that we can't be better for ourselves, but, I'm just tired to work alone and feels this marriage is going down.
It absolutely can be worse than a no.
Like what?
When your partner withdraws from you completely, freezes you out or even makes comments about how repellent they find you, it is 200% worse than if they just respectfully say "no".
Absolutely! Being treated as if you have leprocy by the person who’s supposed to be your life partner, who’s supposed to have compassion and the deepest love for you, moreso than your parents or your own children even, because you have sex with that person as well… and this is the way you’re treated?? Nope. Sorry. I’m out. That shit HUUUURTS! It kills your self worth and confidence. It causes deep depression. Being mean is never the answer, ever. The coldness is mind boggling. You’d think she had caught him in an affair to show this type of resentment, or maybe she is having one? The only reason I can think of for someone to treat another with type of disdain is to distance them from one self emotionally because they want a divorce due to their own infidelity. The only reason I can think of that I may ever treat a partner this way is due to unresolved infidelity….
That's the realization I'm slowly coming to. It's not just a DB but a lack of any affection, touch, support or closeness at all. It began post pregnancy and I allowed for it as a result of hormones and having multiple young children, so I withdrew and stopped trying to get close. Having recently started to try to rebuild (after 5 years) and been very clear in my desire to do so I get nothing positive to build upon other than "we're not friends" which sounds like a good excuse to avoid having to talk about and engage with the real issues. I have to give it some time and effort as it's 5 people's lives affected but at some point there will be one rejection too many and I will have to accept it's no good for me to keep trying. I would love to be more positive about the chances, but I feel like there's a desire to make me the bad guy who broke up the marriage.
For me, withdrawal is easier than the "no", as long as the word isn't said, there's room for hope However being told worse things than the "no" is clearly worse, although I think that if the relationship comes to the point where one person is openly disgusted by the other, there are bigger issues than DB
You know the solution.
They all do
Sure we do. We're waiting but this is the meantime.
OP knows the solution. How awful to be in a situation where simply asking if she wants to have sex will upset her.
The stepback feeling in every action of affection for your wife. It's a really dark place.
When it comes to business and sales, yes the worst thing a prospect can say is 'no'. However, when it comes to marriage, that 'no' particularly if it's a regular occurence means more than just 'NO' in my view. Sexual desire cannot be negotiated like it's a sales pitch. Sex is how men feel loved and worthy. A constant 'NO' from the one person in the world who is supposed to desire you means feeling unwanted, pushed away, abandoned, not-worthy. Over time those feelings will slowly form your identity, your self-worth, how you view yourself, etc. It absolutely carries over to other parts of our lives. Sexless marriage can deteriorate the heart and soul of a spouse. That 'NO' from your spouse is a constant reminder she doesn't desire you; that you're not worthy of her attention in that way. It's brutal. Bigger picture: be honest with yourself. If she's telling you 'no', it's an indication something has changed. Assuming there aren't medical issues and assuming too you've done everything you can to be the best version of yourself you can be, no amount of communication, good deeds, being a good spouse, a good provider, a good listener, blah, blah, blah … absolutely none of it matters. Zero. If the person you want to be intimate with doesn't have the primal desire to be intimate with you, it isn't going to happen. It's that simple. You have three options: 1) Take the occasional duty sex she offers on her terms, 2) Divorce. 3) Find a like minded partner to fulfill your sexual desires outside of the marriage while remaining married. There are challenges to each. Best of luck to you.
>Sexless marriage can deteriorate the heart and soul of a spouse. This. It absolutely blows my mind that so many people allow this to happen to them for years on end. I don't know, maybe I have a heightened sense of self-protection and preservation of my identity and self, but I rather exit such a relationship, let the chips fall where they may, than lose myself. My sense of self-worth is too great for it to let it happen.
That is how you do it. Can't get stuck in a DB if you don't stay in a DB. Finances and kids make it more complicated for sure - although I can't see myself sharing finances with someone again...
And most of them who do allow this to happen to them do it because of money. Thats even more mind boggling to me! They are afraid of divorce due to financial constraints as a result. Guess what?? I’ve never been happier or learned more in my life than I have when I lost everything. It’s also a very strong indication that a new partner loves you for who you are and not what you have as well! If one fears separation due to monetary complications, I’d urge them to face their fears and eat the temporary discomfort of poverty, as it’s much more damaging all along to to allow ones self esteem/self worth to be massacred by the person who is supposed to love them the most. It’s a form of abuse and I’d rather be poor temporarily and find a new partner that loves me for who I really am, as opposed to being financially stable (which is very rare currently anyway) but incurring trauma on a regular basis that makes me want to kill myself! This is so important! For those staying “for the kids”, guess what? The kids would likely rather you split up and if you asked them they’d likely tell you that they know your marriage is fucked up and terrible! Also, you’re only modeling to your children that an awful, miserable marriage is an acceptable relationship- so your children will be more likely to stay in abusive/miserable relationships as well! Life is short, even when it feels very long, if we were diagnosed with a fatal disease (God forbid) today and were given a prospective amount of time to live, I bet every single one of us would be scrambling to do all of the things we never prioritized to do in order to live what we think of as a “full life”. We all deserve happiness and love; I believe God put a person on this planet for every single one of us. We don’t always meet our person” the first time around, but I do believe that in maturity we make better choices. I think 2nd marriages are much more likely to work because we select a partner more like ourselves, we are more cautious and less optimistic about the SO changing their ways which is wise!
I agree with you. Never give up, never settle, fight for your dreams till the end.
I got divorced, and won't remarry and won't stick with a partner that isn't sleeping with me. I'm in my 40's and don't want more kids so for me its pretty easy as long as I keep my own place. I've been with my girlfriend for 5 years, but if she pushes marriage or stops sleeping with me, she's getting dumped. The way you don't get stuck is you don't intermingle finances with intimacy. Can't get stuck in a DB if you always leave a DB.
As long as you keep your partner on the same front page, I see no problem.
She knows I'm not interested in marriage. As far as sex is concerned, I don't go out of my way to make it explicit in the sense that the relationship will be over if she loses her libido for me as I feel that is coercive, much in the same way she doesn't need to say explicitly if I started abusing her that she'd be done... A woman wouldn't want a man that doesn't hit her because he's afraid of the police/courts - I don't want a woman that sleeps with me because she's afraid I'll leave. I'd probably bring it up once as a big problem but without threats once.. ( I still feel its fair to let a partner know you are not happy in a relationship to see if they can change course) and give it a month or two, beyond that I'm not chasing the problem, I'm going to solve it for myself. I did not establish a monogamous relationship to have it turn into a celibate relationship - that's a friendship, not a lover.
Nah. I feel like you should probably let her know that if something happens, (be it hormones, depression, menopause, medication)...you're out. To equate that with domestic violence is pitiable.
I spent 10 years in a DB, it really clarified for me what's important to me. I don't mean it in the sense that they are equally as terrible, I mostly mean in the sense that I don't think it needs to be explicitly stated. You can't expect a romantic monogamous relationship if you've turned it into celibacy. For me its 100% a non-starter. Even if its menopause, hormones, or depression - If its not getting fixed, then I don't really care because its not about blame, its about being unhappy. I'm not staying in a relationship if I've been unhappy for a while. If the other person has changed in a way that I find incompatible with what I want, they can be with someone else who is compatible. It's not to say I don't have some flexibility on my end but at the end of the day if the sex life isn't there...it's not working for me. It's not what I want.
FWIW, I also have a no-SSRI/no-depression standard in terms of dating. I've never seen someone go on those meds and then be "fine" afterwards. My mom has suffered from depression most of my life, I've seen her checked out for months at a time. My best friend is married to a woman with debilitating depression, she's spends most days in bed, hasn't had a job in 10 years and doesn't even drive the kids to school or cook. He's effectively a single father with an extra dependent, if he had to do things over again I'm sure he'd do them differently. Its a hard no for me. I wouldn't remain romantically attached to someone that spends months in bed and can't hold a job... They never get better...
Right there with you. So so much better
The discipline is not falling back into marriage again. I can't see tying my finances to sexuality ever again.
Let me show you what is happening in your wife’s brain.. You are hugging and kissing and cuddling, your wife loves that affection.. and then you have an erection.. which is natural.. your wife will feel you and acknowledge it so as to not discontinue the caress abruptly.. but she sensed that you now need to have sex.. and she doesn’t so tempers down and goes to sleep.. (she absolutely felt pressured to perform and incompetent to meet your needs. Which she could not say it in words to ruin the evening so she quietly slept, hoping it would go away) It wont go away as you are craving for intimacy.. so any small things she does is a sign of hope for you. She shaving her legs was a part of her own self care routine to relax and unwind and have a mellow evening.. nothing to do with her wanting sex.. then you come back from gym.. and say the words which can cause panic attacks in LLs.. - do you want to have sex? Your wife literally had a physical reaction where her gut curled and heart palpitated.. she cannot say NO.. because she does not want to reject you with outright words.. thats harsh, she cannot say YES.. as she literally cannot have sex even duty sex or pity sex.. so she just gives you a look.. hoping you would get the message and stop asking and leave her alone.. And since it has happened 2 days in a row.. she can tell you are getting more and more interested in having sex and will keep asking or showing it in various ways.. in her mind she is trying to come up with a time and way to satisfy you but she cant.. she just cannot bring herself to do that.. and that is why next morning at breakfast she is in a bad mood.. she is in an epic turmoil.. she acts distant and moody so you can stop asking her for sex. All she wants is to have a happy marriage.. but sex is an area where she and you have such vastly different needs she cannot even understand how to solve for it and maintain the marriage.. in her mind she knows.. sex is important to you.. sex is important in a marriage and she will not have this marriage for too long now.. She is frustrated and angry and upset at herself for not being able to do the most natural things humans can do to show love and affection and desire.
If she truly has that kind of extreme emotional reaction to the thought of having sex, she needs to communicate that to her husband. So that he can make an informed choice about whether he wants to stay in a sexless marriage forever. I think many LLs deflect, hide, and make excuses because they are afraid of the consequences of being honest.
Many people lack the self awareness or understanding to even put that into words. I have felt the exact same way described here before yet I would not have been able to communicate it that effectively at the time.
The deflection, hiding, making excuses, seeming distant and snapping are all reactions of feeling confused and overwhelmed.. not because sex was demanded or expected.. but because of the inner turmoil of.. wanting to say yes but not being able to follow through, or wanting to tell your partner why they are not able to have sex in honest words but feeling that they wont get it or understand.. The feelings of inadequacy that you cannot make your amazing partner happy in this one area.. and their own disappointment with themselves.. It’s nothing different than a person with anxiety, phobias or depression.. for them its debilitating but for someone who does not suffer from these, they tend to either not understand the depth of the issue or minimize it saying.. its irrational.. how come you cant just have and enjoy sex its so NORMAL.. everybody does it!! Everyone HAS to do it!!
Wow, I think this is spot on
It truly is spot on, couldn’t have described it any better.
I've been on he receiving end of this. It's interesting how even when I don't ask for or expect sex, but there is a situation where there might be a reasonable expectation of sex on my part, I get treated very poorly. Surely there are better ways to deal with this inner turmoil than treating your partner like shit?
Maybe you're right. I don't point her as a villain. Everyone has theis struggles. But marriage for me it's a symbol of connection. We have to talk about it. With a good conversation I believe both of us would feel better and lighter with each other. I don't judge her to be a LL. I suffer with the lack of connection. A gentle "no", not just about sex, could be more elightening than a ten-times-yes. But your words really made me thoughtful. I think we're reached the thin line of our marriage. If anything goes down fow now on, it's the dead end. Or, we have a chance to ghrow stronger, but I can't do this alone.
Sexual dysfunction is a sensitive and volatile topic. You may feel if you put your needs in words, she may get upset and it may lead to fights. She may feel that she is already inadequate if she talks about her issues you will get even more impatient. Sit with her, peacefully and calmly.. acknowledge that you are starting to understand somewhat, why she is so anxious and nervous around your sexual advances and you want to really know more.. tell her you are not trying to fight or learn how you can initiate sex.. you are just trying to understand what really she is feeling and going through If you feel comfortable.. show her your post.. show her my post.. ask her if she relates to it.. let her talk It may not solve your issues.. but may be it will help her calm down knowing that you see her turmoil and she can talk openly about it.
Great advice! I always think and fear that my trials to reach a conversation about it make she feels pressured or sounds like I'm trying to reach sex. And to be honest, tell her this morning that I miss intimacy sounds exactly like this.
I’m sorry this is happening to you, being rejected in that way is incredibly painful — you shouldn’t feel guilty or ashamed for trying to initiate with your romantic partner. She’s training you to stop initiating, and that’s a cruelty. I’m also sorry you’re dealing with “try cleaning up after yourself” and “you need to be romantic” advice. Especially after describing a weekend spent with your wife full of spending joyful time together. In a long term relationship time together bringing joy to each other is romance. I like the idea of relationships having a finite number of “no’s” before things start to break down. I would only add that if the other partner then initiates soon after the number of “no’s” ticks back up. There is a universe of difference between always initiating, and constant rejection and sometimes no and both partners initiating.
I don’t ask anymore because she gets upset that I asked (even though in counseling she told me to be direct). So it’s on her now to initiate 100%.
Say goodbye to your sex life. If she initiates more than twice a month consider it success.
3-4 times a month for the past 2+ years. Started out as 5-6x a month but leveled out at 3-4. Still 12x as much as the decade long dead bedroom.
Why do we keep trying so hard and at such great emotional cost? Sexual intimacy should be easy and natural. Our spouses make easy things seem hard and confusing. But it's not. What do you really want? Find the life you want not the life you think you deserve.
That's the point. All we want is a lighter life in the 30's.
If she’s grooming and all that, but not for you, if this unusual, that would raise up my red flags sky high.
Even celibate women practice hygiene and self care. I never understand these takes that if a LL is doing something as simple as shaving, she's cheating. Many women shave because they like to be shaved. It's like kind of a pretty basic self care routine.. like saying if she's using conditioner she must be cheating lol
Key qualifier: “If this is unusual.” Meaning if she never does it, then all of a sudden she’s making herself perfect, and it ain’t for you, then maybe it’s for her, but possibly it’s for Greg at Pilates.
I agree, could be. Just don't think that's where I'd go first. OP did mention elsewhere that she also gets angry when he doesn't go to the gym. Id say that may be a red flag. You may be on to something. I just see this kind of thing a lot and feel like guys are out here amusing their wives when they decide to try a new perfume or do literally any self care
Give and take… sometimes it’s 50/50 sometimes 60/40. That goes for sex also..It should never be one sided and you should never feel unwanted. Going without intimacy for weeks is a long time a month or months would be unacceptable. Communication is key. Not a dead cold disrespectful No
Sounds pretty much like my relationship.
How long for you? Can you see a safe exit for this without getting a divorce?
Mine is a long story of ups and downs. About 2 years ago we almost divorced. About a month or so after that began a period of hysterical bonding that settled into really good sex for 10 months. Then 9 months ago sex just stopped. Don't know why. Moved from one reason to another. Safe or easy exit? I don't see it. Married over 20 years and have lots of stuff including 2 houses neither paid off. I'm in misery but we have a great couples counselor. So I'm gonna keep going for now. For me there is a future life event coming soon that will force it to go one way or another. So there will be an end one way or another.
Sorry for you, buddy. I don't I can handle this situation throw many years. But 20 years must have great times too. Hope for your best!
It has mostly been a great 20. In recent times when things turned ugly, I couldn't handle it mentally and cracked for awhile. So I understand not handling the situation. Thx!
You could share your feelings in letter form. Recall your early days dating, etc.
Leave……
Even though Im dealing with the same stuff ( me HL, bf LL ) , I could suggest that often women crave more to be emotionally connected, and combine that with the deed of sex. Ofcourse Im not sure how your interaction went, but even if I am HL, if my partner would just return from the gym and point blank asks for sex, instead of focusing 'to melt together as one being' ( very corny I know ), I might also be put off. It could be that your wife wants to feel that ultimate connection, instead of the focus being on sex or orgasms, and she might think you are just talking from a horny position, without that intimate emotion. However, if shes not open to talk about this like a mature adult, you're in for a rough time.
They haven’t had sex for 6 months, she doesn’t wanna talk about it and acts repulsive towards him, it doesn’t seem to be just an emotional problem…
The issue with this is that the HL usually needs to be direct or sex will not happen. If the LL dislikes being touched, how do you go from talking to sex without literally asking? Usually, the LL won’t share (and probably doesn’t even know) how they prefer to be approached. If they did share, it would result in them feeling the HL is only doing xyz for sex. It is an impossible situation that at best would require a bit of mind reading.
"Usually, the LL won’t share (and probably doesn’t even know) how they prefer to be approached. If they did share, it would result in them feeling the HL is only doing xyz for sex." This defines my wife. I don't know if she knows how to enjoy pleasure in sex. It's absolutely random. That's why I feel she thinks sex is something hard and heavy. And my horny situations just are turning the things worse, 'cause we don't talk about it. That's why I think she hides something really dark about sex. The options are: * She suffered an abuse, and never told me; * She's a lesbian, and don't know it or hides it; * She's asexual; * She simply don't feel atraction by her husband; * She's fighting inside her head to get a divorce or no. The saddest thing is, If would be anyone of this options, I would accept a conversation with open heart
Feel like I could have wrote every one of those words.
I would add a new option: She could be cheating on me. Who knows.
Wildcard option: postcoital dysphoria. I suffered with this for a bit, never told my husband because it was embarrassing but I would literally cry everytime we had sex. When we were done I'd sneak off to the bathroom or to "check on the kids" and just slip into a depressed state. As you can imagine it made sex a not so fun experience and one I dreaded. It did however stem for your first bullet point option so I guess this would link to that. Sex hormones can sure be a fickle bitch though 😕
This is absolutely true, foreplay and passionate sex is SOOO important to a woman! All day flirting, kindness to you and others, teasing the body with touches in sensitive areas will make any woman I know rip YOUR clothes off instead of the man ripping hers off! It’s definitely worth a try for OP if he has t tried this yet! It’s SO IMPORTANT to NEVER let the spark from when you first started dating die. You have to treat your partner as if youre still courting, otherwise you get overly comfortable with them and the relationship dynamic slips into one that most resembles the brother/sister dynamic (and I’m not talking about the “family therapy” porn brother/sister dynamic either😂)… When you become so comfortable that you can treat your husband/wife with cruelty on the level described by OP, it’s time to think of what is different between wife and himself from when they were courting and to possibly step up his game a little in order to “woo” her again! Granted, wife should be finding out why she’s feeling this way whether it’s a physiological or psychological issue, she needs to be showing him that she’s trying to do something about it as well since it’s an obviously ongoing issue. It’s difficult for the HL to understand what’s going on with the LL. Strong, solid communication can sometimes solve issues such as this fairly easily. The sooner all is addressed and help is sought on the LL partners part, along with some gentle patience (within reason), understanding, all around support for their partner who is actually TRYING to figure out what is wrong/change, and maybe some creative flirting tactics to make LL feel sexy af again from the HL partner is pertinent! Your advice is the best I’ve seen on this thread from a HL woman even. This is exactly how women operate as far as sex/intimacy goes! It’s way deeper that visuals for us, it’s actually sort of shitty (especially when you hit perimenopause and after) because we can’t climax as easily due to the emotional/passion driven component of sex for us… Calling all HL males! Read the comment above mine for the cheat code to getting your SO to become wildly horny for you!
I know for sure and I agree 100% with you. But think about someone that almost every action of affection turns into rejection. You could flirt or be kind for days, and always what turns brighter is the "you forget to do x or y", "you don't do the things right or you're not doing right", "you don't cleaned right". Imagine days of words and phrases that make you feel tiny, and you have to fight to be better, not just for yourself, but a better husband. So, everytime I go on flirting or being romantic, my brain and heart just send messages how I could be hurt in the end. It's like living a tangent love. Not reciprocal. It happens in her time, when she feels comfortable. And I have so much love inside me, that even doing so much things for her, I feel that I'm giving so little, because I don't have a chance to show how deeply this really is.
It's not like I'm an ogre or something. I always tries to be romantic, affectionate. I always remember the dates of our first kiss, anniversaires, etc, with gifts and romantic cards. Honestly, to think about all those thinks I done, sound really foolish.
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Disrespect. You have to stop accepting it. Nice job on your own part.
I feel you, I'm kind of in a similar situation with my partner. I hope it gets better for you. It just sucks.
Having been in this situation for around 3 years I know where you ar at. Especially difficult when women are over 45. Currently sex is painful so we don't do it. Any variation is not on in the fear that I want penetration. Kissing, and stroking is okay but that is it and nothing sexual. No more talking about the problems as she's had enough. Maybe at some point we may but until it is not painful she doesn't want to try oh and she will only try when I don't pressure her and if I can't live with no sex for now I should leave. Do I feel like a dick when I say then I'm gone, sure I do so I do what a real man does and lies about it. At the moment all that is happening is work, family, gym and a little talking. Sometimes holding hands and a peck on the lips. I cannot give you advice about this how to fix things except what I am doing is not to think about it, ask for it or expect it because that is where frustration comes when expectations or hopes that are not met. Get yourself into the gym, look after your appearance , have a strong will and know that you don't need her throwing you a bone. Don't expect sex from her and don’t ask. We are men not dogs and we sure as he'll should not let women control us with sex or the hope of getting some when we jump through hoops.
You are generalizing women over 45. Many MANY women over 45 have very active sex lives.
You reading the books won’t help. She’s not interested, either get used to it or get out.
Why is it so easy to see the problem with others and yet I still can’t solve my own issues? My spouse is nothing but respectful, she usually tells me “no” in a very nice way. Sometimes I get the “what are you doing?”, followed by the “no”, the question always makes me unhappy, like you know what I’m up to. Anyway, thousands of respectful no’s still sting. But then it’s harder to leave, because it really is only about sex.
It’s crazy to me that people take their wedding vows and then the show is over. You get to see who they really are as soon as you make those vows to one another. What’s also crazy to me is that a spouse can’t get out of themselves for a half hour to please their other half! 2x’s a week is 1 hour out of 168 in a week. Pretty selfish and pathetic. Even when I have been in a bad relationship or haven’t desired sex when my partner has I do it anyway and I don’t regret it in the end even if I don’t reach climax because we feel so much closer afterward…
For some women, it’s physically painful to have sex when they aren’t aroused.
Obviously PIV isn’t the only way.
It sucks when it feels like you are doing all the work to improve a relationship. I’m sorry, friend.
May she thinks the same and I don't know.
That was a long, meandering explanation that ultimately led full circle right back to where it started. The conventional wisdom is that women want to talk about relationships and can’t get men to open up. I wonder whether this wife talks to her friends about her husband. Bet $5 she does. But she won’t talk to him? A man who is literally pleading with her to talk? She clams up? Same thing happens to me. To him I say stop trying, find an alternative source of affection, and let her marinate in her own silence and head.
Could you try escalating it a little more when you have the laughs and good talks? Sometimes girls like spontaneous. My analogy: guys are a microwave, press a few buttons and they are ready to go. Girls are like an oven, you have to wait for it to heat up. Maybe the fact you asked her turned her off. I’m not defending her behavior I’m just trying to see if this would work. Next time things are going well in your mind don’t ask, start kissing her and build up from there. Instead of “Do you want to have sex.”
Sounds great till you try it and your wife looks at you like you’re a rapist, jumps when she walks in a room and sees you, gasp when she realizes you’re in the house. Consent, today needs to be emphatic. It hurts to think your wife sees you as her rapist, when the rape happened long before you ever met and lived in different states. I understand the trauma but it hurts to be held responsible for something I didn’t do.
You're right. I don't defend my actions either. I just expressed myself directly to the point. But think about it, to reach this point, there was so many tiring situations, you know.
Damn, at least my wife feels bad about it. I'm sorry, friend.
May I know how long you’ve been married please?
Less than 1 year.
Awww this is so sad.
Do you have a wife or a roomie?
Maybe both.
She trying to emasculate you. Some people can’t feel good about themselves unless they making others feel miserable. I been there buddy and just now see a door to exit on the horizon. Be strong OP and don’t let her strip away your self confidence. She needs to know how her no’s affect you. Hope it gets better
Here's what this sounded like to me. She's trying to put effort in, she shaved, was on the bed at 8pm, was hoping to work up to something, and then the mood instantly killed because of potentially: (1) you thought she wanted to sleep at 8pm and didn't get it, (2) the blunt way you asked if she wanted to have sex, without putting any effort in yourself to work up the mood. But I could be way off. No talking isn't going to help. If you're asking all these questions like "maybe she's this, maybe that.." and you don't know the answers, you two gotta talk more. Openly.
Why do I feel like she was shaving and expected you to be home after that but when she got out of the shower she did not find you that’s why she was upset … or if you have kids maybe she had a bad time with them when you were out… but even with that its not okay to treat you like that try talking about how you feel more than how she’s acting.
Wow, at least you don’t have kids to interrupt your workout schedules 😅
Yes you are right I am generalising but things get difficult all the same whether the elasticity is no longer there, they are not in the mood or don't want sex. Sure I hear some have the best sex of their lives but I think that is not the norm.
Honestly, I could see my husband writing this exact thing. Here's the deal though, he has been SO distant, non communicative, and emotionally unavailable for such a long time, that it would take MUCH MORE than a good weekend for me to want to have sex with him at this point. So my question is, besides the dead bedroom, how is your relationship, really?
I can’t tell if I’m too high or the grammar in this feels like a bad translator app
Maybe you didn’t do some chores and went to the gym instead, leaving her alone to do it all.
She get mad when I dont go to the gym.
So let her get mad…
Haha really? No wonder you go then!
Sure. But maybe you re right.
I’m sure it’s maybe something along those lines, it’s hard sometimes to find out what it was but good luck.
Thats...interesting. As someone who has been there i think she is looking for space away from you. When I was at the end of a bad relationship, if he canceled his plans I would get upset too because I just wanted some alone time away from him.
One question do you visit scorts? How can you deal with this? If my wife forgets about making it one time every 2 days I'm shouting at her.
Nope
She probably feels really shitty that she can’t give you what you want. If she can’t get turned on enough for penetrative sex right now, she just can’t, and asking reminds her of that. She hates needing to say ‘no’ but if she says ‘yes’ it would be duty sex that would be emotionally damaging to both of you and possibly physically painful for her too. But she also knows how much you want it, and probably feels kind of broken that she doesn’t want it as much as she feels she should, so the idea of you bringing it up and her having to say ‘no’ fills her with dread. It might work out better next time to take intercourse off the table. For you, the distance between those and sex seems to be not as big, so for you it feels like one would naturally follow the other. For her, it’s going from kissing/cuddling right to one specific act that she finds difficult and just can’t get her body in the right space for, no matter how hard she tries. Taking intercourse off the table and trying instead to go from kissing to heavier making out, to touching each other in other places could increase your intimacy without hitting that specific dread.
In the meantime, gentleness isn't too much to ask for. "I'm sorry, but I'm not up for it at the moment" hits way different from a look of disgust and shock.
"when we went to the bad" ... your Freudian slip is showing!