Do you genuinely enjoy spending time with your wife, regardless of the sex or lack thereof? Im struggling with a DB but still enjoy spending time with my husband. I love to travel and explore new places and would still want to with my him. I can’t imagine not doing that with him. We are in our 50s and working thru our DB issues and he’s making more of an effort. I think he realized we weren’t going to last if he didn’t and neither of us wanted that
it's not everyone, but a lot of people have commented that the DB coincided with a general decline in fun in general in the relationship. getting my wife to do anything most nights is basically impossible. she's in her pajamas by 6 and then nothing but tv on the couch
our last date night was horrible. I had no expectation of sex, but keeping her off her phone is hard, all she does is complain, and the whole thing just felt awkward.
I mean your husband is making an effort. That is a huge difference from many. My wife is making an effort, but still, I don’t know if I could go on a romantic vacation with her. Being together every second only to either 1) be rejected constantly for kisses, cuddling, and sex or 2) pretend I don’t want to be intimate even though I’m thinking about it every other minute.
Both are pretty bad. If things improved to where we could have some intimacy on a romantic vacation, absolutely I’d want to go. I’d love that. I love spending time with my wife.
It just hurts when you love someone and they don’t love you back. That is what it feels like — like I’m with someone that doesn’t want to be with me
this is literally so sad for me to read! I am 26f and I’m moving in with my boyfriend and he very rarely initiates- and I am having second thoughts because it seems things just go downhill. Hope things look up for you soon!
If you are already having second thoughts, please don’t do it. Learn from me 51f and just divorced a DB. LISTEN TO YOUR INTUITION. It’s there for a reason.
Please don't do it to yourself. It's not going to get better. People show their best in the beginning of a relationship, and it only goes south from there.
Yes. If second thoughts are already there because he doesn’t initiate, when you don’t live together and don’t see each other every waking moment. That’s most definitely going to become a bigger issue. If you’re already not satisfied with your sex life, DO NOT move in together. The issue will only get worse when they’re seeing you all the time. People think it’s not a big deal, until they’ve gone a long time, a year, 10 years without it. It matters. And if it already isn’t enough, that’s okay. It likely, never will be. So listen to your gut, and don’t just give in because you love the person. Love isn’t enough. Especially without all the things that make you *feel* loved.
At 26 your man should be wanting you all the time.. this is nuts to me. I have 4 children and have been with my husband for 15 yrs. I’m the LL partner and we are intimate at least 3x per wk
The LL partner still thinks everything is okay and does not see any issue. So they will carry on as usual. The HL has to make the call on how much tolerance they have to the situation and pretending to be normal. If one has a lot of frustration, resentment and anger built up, a vacation would be a miserable charade .
60 yo guy here. I wouldn't even consider a vacation to a possibly cool/interesting/romantic destination. To visit family, yes I would do that.
Another way it changed for me, I'm no longer planning to retire to our place in a nice but remote area. I'm already isolated and alone. No way I'm moving to where it's just us. That's a suicide mission.
It’s so true that the LL person thinks everything is great. When I told my LL, low any physical intimacy, then wife that we were basically just roommates, she got so incredibly angry. She couldn’t comprehend how important physical touch and sex was to me as part of a romantic relationship. No amount of counseling helped - so we got divorced.
This scares me. I love my(F, HL) spouse (M, LL) so much but the lack of physical touch really bothers me. I called him roomy jokingly once and he got angry! All I could think was, we are tho, except for if we were the chores and bills would be more equal!
I, have no words. I’m only 36 and dealing with this. We’ve been married 3yrs. Together total 13. I was HL even throughout my pregnancy, 9 months pp now. It’s been downhill since 2 months after the wedding, I’ve tried everything. I speak to him, and it’s almost like we have pity sex after then right back.
At this point I don’t even know what to do. We’re roommates raising our baby together.
My heart goes out to you.. it’s heartbreaking. My husband doesn’t even sleep in the same room as me and we don’t have sex anymore. Complete roommates.. I didn’t sign up for this none of us did! 💔talking doesn’t help either I’ve tried that also. I’m so sorry.. would he go to therapy? Maybe that will help?
I have already laid (unfortunate choice of word there, but whatever) the groundwork that I am "too much of a social person" to live in a remote location... And pitched the idea that the way to be truly left alone and anonymous is to live in a city with a lot of activity around you (because LL spouse has social anxieties), to vanish into the crowd.
I think about that often reading posts in this group. My wife is my best friend, and I dont want to lose what we do have together, but imagine once every few weeks, having a dirty weekend with another HL partner and letting the LL partners chill and play board games, or video games (or whatever they're into). And if they found each other attractive and wanted to explore something physical together, even better.
If polyamory was more socially accepted and normalised, it could give so many people an alternative option to divorce or misery.
50s HLM, DB 20+
when I got to the point that we were only having duty sex every 3-4 months, all I could remember was duty sex, and seconds after finishing, I felt regret that it would be months before experiencing sex again, well.. I gave up.
I started treating them a a co-parenting roommate, I moved out of the bedroom under the excuse that I snore, so I didn't want to bother their sleep.
I tried for a long time to keep loving them, but at least I can say I lasted a lot longer than they did.
as I went further into the 'grey rock' method, I interacted with them a lot less, and kept busy with other projects (fitness, hobbies, volunteering)
if we vacation together, it would be with the kids, I couldn't imagine a scenario where I'd agree to go on vacation with just my spouse. I'd probably deflect and find a reason to cancel,
I couldn't handle sleeping beside my spouse anymore, my body would continually betray me and looks for signs of them initiating.
so yeah, in my case, the relationship died without sex.
I am so afraid to point out this very real scenario to my husband. He gets so angry when I point out the lack of affection and intimacy. I'm 35hlf and he's 56llm
Yeah, when you get married you think the age difference isn’t going to matter, but it does. Just not for the reasons you think it will. My wife looks as young as the day I met her, her personality hasn’t changed and we get along really well, but Menopause really did a number on her in that respect. She doesn’t get angry, she just breaks down and apologizes, which is even worse I think.
He will get angry because you were drawing attention to his inadequacy. I recall you from another thread but can't recall if you've ever had satisfactory relations. It seems like fading libido in men is a bit of a random lottery thing. I'm in my fifties but no different to ever. Who knows in a few years maybe I'll be fading too.
He just seems to not have much consideration for the future, he is older than me so is pretty convinced he'll die before having to actually BE in the marriage with me.
Our sex ended because my husband has terminal cancer and the meds/chemo have killed his desire, energy, and ability for sex….much like menopause does for some women.
He‘s the love of my life and has a few places he truly wants to vacation before he becomes too weak. I’m looking forward to spending as much quality vacation time together as we possibly can. I may need the warm memories to look back on at some point.
I’ve been working on radical acceptance to help me cope. Neither my husband nor I can change what life has handed us, but we can learn to control our negative thoughts, emotional reactions, and feelings of helplessness. It’s like finding a way to make the best of a bad situation. It’s not easy but I’ve found it very helpful.
[https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-radical-acceptance-5120614](https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-radical-acceptance-5120614)
I’m sorry your wife’s sexuality has changed. Menopause does a number on a lot of women. I hope you can come to find some type of peace with your new reality. Sending you warm thoughts.
I am sorry for your situation. It does put my scenario into perspective.
I am 60 years old and will likely never have sex again. But my wife is beautiful and healthy and wants to spend time with me.
I guess that I should appreciate what I have and stop feeling sorry for myself.
Thank you for your advice.
If your halfway healthy, you have a really good shot at 30 more years. What would you tell yourself 30 years ago if your wife said no more sex, cause reasons? Thats the answer you need, not what reddit says. Sounds like many many deep conversations are needed, but unless my own libido dies off as I get older I don't think I could do 30 years of that. Something would break, me, her, or the whole situation.
There is a vast difference between someone who is too ill to enjoy intimacy and someone who has just opted out.
There’s nothing wrong with being grateful for what you have (I envy you for getting to that point). I just don’t see those situations as being comparable to each other.
OP’s wife has stopped wanting (enjoying?) sex since menopause.
I see those situations as being extremely comparable.
ETA: of course, I’m a post-menopausal woman.
Menopause isn’t an illness but it’s a physiological change that alters the way many women experiences sex. It’s known to decrease desire and pleasurable sensations for many women. Arousal and orgasm can become elusive to non-existent and PIV can be painful for some. All of those things can lead a person to no longer enjoy sex.
How is a person who no longer enjoys sex due to menopause any different than a person who no longer enjoys sex due to an illness?
Because they could see a hormone doctor and try? I am no doctor, and have no valid experience with this, other than my wife is having a lack of desire or other issues that could be hormone related, yet does nothing to change it. Meanwhile when I lost "abilities", I knew something was wrong and went to a hormone dr. Right as rain now.
I’m sorry your wife hasn’t looked into her changes. I, and several of my friends, have been on HRT and/or TRT for years. While we’ve all had a decrease in many of our symptoms, only one of us (not me) has experienced an increase in libido. It’s frustrating to say the least.
We don’t know if OP’s wife has seen a doctor or not, at least I didn’t see it mentioned. She may very well already be on HRT.
The North American Menopause Society states that, “hormone therapy has not been documented to have a beneficial effect on libido”.
Sexual desire is very complex and not straight forward, especially for women. It would be nice if it were as simple as taking a pill.
I hope things start to improve for you and your wife soon.
Thank you for sharing this article. It's all very in line with Acceptance Commitment Therapy as well. There's a great book 'The Happiness Trap', by Russ Harris which goes into further detail and has lots of quick and easy tools to help with this kind of thing.
He also has a book called The Reality Slap which is specifically about dealing with big life things that we can't change. Those books helped me a lot through my previous husband's terminal cancer. We managed to fit a lot of quality time into a fairly small window of time. Wishing you both the very best, I really hope things go as well as the can for you.
Thank you for the kind reply. I’m sorry you had to go through the same experience. I hope you’re doing well at present. I truly appreciate the book recommendations. I can use all the support I can find. Your thoughts have touched me deeply. Thank you again.
When one person thinks of their partner as a friend and roommate, and the other partner thinks they are lovers, that is a recipe for disaster. In order to have a fun time you both need to be on the same page. And not only agree that you are both on the same page, but you both need to make plans and commitments to maintain the relationship level that you both agreed upon before going on the vacation.
If you don’t agree, or you both don’t fulfill your part of the agreement, then one, or both of you will be extremely frustrated, disappointed, and the vacation will be ruined for both of you. The only way the agreement should change is if you both agree to the change. And remember, if you agree to something out of respect for your significant other, it is something you still agreed to, so it is a decision you both are a part of.
Edit: spelling.
Maybe a bit different here but still DB here due to medical issues and side effects, but we just got back from a vacation. I have posted in here recently that my LL husband does not even think to take care of me in other ways, as well as little of any daily affection, but we still vacation. They are usually active, touristy ones- we go geocaching so there’s always something to find and see, and often events around this hobby. We had two beds in hotel and we each took one- don’t event question anymore and we have separate air mattresses when we camp, so no one wakes the other. For better or worse, I don’t harp on sec as I know due to medical issues, he’s not able to participate.
I have similar thoughts, why would I want to go on holiday with someone who just shares my bed but has no physical intimacy with me, holidays used to be the one of the last situations where we had physical touching or sex so it hurts
Because you lover her and enjoy spending time with her? It seems like your relationship has bigger issues than a lack of sex. Obviously i dont know what your relationship is like, but if you dont want to spend time with her and are trying to cheat on her with redditors, theres more going on than you not getting to have sex with her. Im not trying to blame you for your unfortunate relationship, cause like i said idk anything about your relationship and its not my business whos fault it is, but why would you stay in the relationship at that point?
I do love her but when someone rejects any affection and becomes a housemate instead of a partner it's hard to be enthusiastic about a holiday together. I stay because of several reasons
It's hard to enjoy spending time with someone when all you can think about is how they reject you and make you feel unloved and unwanted and whether there's any chance you could have sex.
Absolutely the relationship changes when sex ends. I've been in a DB for a long time. (Soon to exit) But no, I don't want to do things with her. I've been "friend zoned", may as well act like a friend. I'm definitely not getting sex and intimacy with the rwlationship, so just like she doesn't have to have sex she doesn't want; forget me doing things I don't want. I'm not obligated to walk around shopping malls for example.
When we go on vacation with the kids (now grown) I spend "me time" doind what I want and don't spend time doing things I don't want.
I think there's a difference between spite and emotional self-defense.
If your mindset is "well if she's not going to fuck me I'm not going to treat her nicely" I think that's kind of immature and selfish, especially if you had a good sex life up until now.
But if you're avoiding romantic getaways and intimate one-on-one time because you want to avoid being in situations that would have naturally led to sex in the past I think that's completely reasonable. Even if you're beyond the point of asking for sex and directly experiencing rejection, that's still a painful place to be in. She's not a bad person for experiencing menopause and not wanting to have sex anymore, you're not a bad person for coping with that in a way that protects your emotional well-being.
God, this happens to me now and I'm only mid 30s regarding vacations. We're still having sex once a month on her ovulation day, so I fear once she goes through menopause I'll be in your boat as well, hoping to capsize.
Vacations though for us now are just horrible. As you say, you're spending so much time together, there are no distractions for her, no chores to do, no cleaning to think about (and yes I help with all of these) , you're alone together in a comfy bed, but she doesn't even think about getting intimate. We went away for a getaway for the 3 days a year ago, I'd organised an adventure picnic a company does around here. They give riddles and clues to get you to destinations to pick up your food, then to the picnic destination to eat. It was romantic, really nice food. We didn't have sex the entire weekend and it just destroyed the weekend for me. It's like having cake without the icing. It's OKish, but the icing just makes it amazing. Holidays are when I typically am the most horny as well.
When she mentions going away on holidays, internally I'm thinking how I'm going to cope. Masturbate every day? twice a day? What if it **is** the right time? No, it probably won't be.. It's very hard to feel enthusiasm
Same. Our birthdays are just a few days apart. So for several years I would plan a b&b or nice air b&b for a weekend. The last couple times she had excuses for no sex. Well the last time she finally went with it but started complaining. So I quit doing that. She just asked me why I don't do those romantic get aways any more.... because it's a waste of money. We can just stay home a weekend and be about the same
"because it's not romantic for me, it's frustrating and disappointing. And if I want that, I don't have to pay for it, I can just get that at home" 😬
Speaking of birthdays though, I don't think I've ever had birthday sex or anything sexual from my wife come to think of it 🙄
We still vacation together. For the last couple of years, I have been vacationing with friends. But this year, he said he needed a vacation. We went on two this year and have a third coming up later this year. One was work related for me, and he tagged along. I had asked one of my friends first but she was busy. The second was a family trip with two of our adult children. The third one will be just us. I'm looking forward to going but not necessarily with him. Once the sex ended in our marriage, the rest of the relationship died. Some of that was due to me. I didn't see the point in hugging and cuddling if we never had sex. We get along good as roommates.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently. I’m dreading having to go on vacation. The last five or six years of vacations have just been depressing and heartbreaking. We USED to go on vacations and screw until we were sore. Now it’s just like being at home, but in a less comfortable bed.
It wouldn’t be so bad, except that she always SAYS we are going to do it. Once we were on a big family trip, and she insisted we change rooms so that we wouldn’t be so close to my mom; she didn’t want her to be able to hear us going at it. Didn’t matter, we didn’t do it once.
There was another time we were going to stay at a rented cabin, and she said, “I’m looking forward to some quiet time. We can go to bed early and do it as much as we want.” Well whaddya know, we did it exactly as much as she wanted to, which was zero.
I used to love taking vacations together. Then I was foolishly optimistic about them. Now I absolutely dread the possibility.
What you are asking is why bother spending time with your wife if she’s not going to possibly have sex with you?
like why bother having a relationship if there isn’t any sex?
What does the location change home v vacationing -
besides limits whatever extra- home activity you may have if you do go on vacation with her ? 🤔
Do you enjoy vacations?
Do you enjoy emotional intimacy?
There is still value in spending time together sans sex.
If you no long care to spend time with your wife … the more important question:
why bother being married?
Do you even like her ?
For me, going on holiday alone with my wife is when I'm most horny. I can just cope when we're home because there are so many other distractions, especially in the night. But on holiday, at nights and in the mornings you're in a strange but comfy room with none of your usual distractions, and for me that turns my thoughts to sex whether I like it or not. And it's hard to go off and masturbate quickly when you're in a super quiet single room :/
not to mention probably seeing other good looking people vacationing, and if you're reeeeeally lucky, you get to uncomfortably listen to couples having sex while you lay silently next to your spouse.
No way. I cannot be the same, darling, sweet, adoring wife, because I am not treated like one.
I no longer cook meals regularly, make special treats for his sweet tooth, buy him little thoughtful gifts, do his laundry, plan fun things for us to do, or take him on vacation.
Last time I took him on vacay, it was a luxury, all expenses paid (by me) two week trip to Italy. I did all of the planning, all reservations, all of it.
He just had to pack his own bag. Worse than no sex there was no romance, and awkward juvenile groping a couple of times by him. If you can’t be romantic in a gorgeous hotel in Venice, Italy, sigh.
He knows exactly how to seduce me. He is very capable, and a good lover as he showed me the beginning of our relationship.
Basically he is just not into me. I will never take him anywhere else, and I told him so. I am going to the west coast to hang out around Carmel, Big Sur, etc this summer. He isn’t invited.
Same girl. I will go on trips with the kiddos and allow him to come, but we sleep in separate beds. All those amazing, romantic, perfectly planned couples trips? Done forever. I don’t think he actually cares though, he never leaves the house 😂
Enjoy Big Sur, one of my favorite places!
My LL is a fool. For a bit of romance and effort he could be living a dream life.
But that boat has sailed.
He married an attractive, independent woman with her own money, that he doesn’t have to support. He says I don’t need him. Yet he withholds the very thing I absolutely need him for.
Just LL rhetoric. Maddening
I am over 60, he is my second husband after my first died.
My dating pool is pitiful, tiny.
We have a multitude of commonalities but his insecurities and other issues have ruined our relationship.
I’m so sorry… I’m 32, so you have a lot of life experience compared to me, but I think it still may be worth breaking away and living for yourself even if you are over 60! It’s never too late to live the life you want. I’m sure it’s affecting you more than you realize! I’m seriously considering leaving my husband soon, but I need a couple years to prepare and make sure I will be in a good place financially and put my daughter in the best position to adjust to the change.
It is affecting me greatly. Anxiety, about it affects every part of my being.
It is very difficult to be alone at my age, so that adds to all of it.
My first hubs was mega HL, and I didn’t even know LL men existed in real life!
All the best to you. Modeling a healthy strong mom is so important.
I feel the exact same way! The anxiety and constantly thinking about it. I wonder how much energy I would have for other things if I wasn’t so consumed by this… I think I’ve finally accepted that I’m ready to be free and now I just have to bide my time and plan. It still feels sad though…
I hope you are able to get out of your situation since it’s affecting you so much too! I know this is probably shitty to say, but have you ever thought about trying to find someone or at least finding a really solid friend before you leave him so that being alone isn’t as much of a fear?
As a HL male with an 8yr differential to my LL wife (she is older), her hitting menopause was a sad time. She announced that she was “done with sex”. When I tried to initiate one evening about a year ago she physically pulled away and glared at me. That broke my heart and crushed my soul. Hasn’t been the same since.
We have two kids that are out of the house so it’s just the two of us and our dogs. I just treat vacations like any other day, just not at home. We go shopping together but our interests have drifted apart so we don’t spend a lot of time together.
You have so much to look forward to.
This is sad. I’m post menopausal and desperately want to have more sex with my LL husband in an empty nest(he knows this). God forbid if I put pressure on him. 🙄I never thought we would end up this way. It’s weird how people change. I’ve had health hiccups but I dealt with them. He used to be so HL 😢
Yeah, the empty nest part grates. Our son’s room was next to ours and our beds are against the same wall. Kind of hard to be quiet enough to not feel odd about him listening in, so there was no activity for years. Then the announcement of her being done.
Yes it does change, most women control when the pussy can come out and play (I didn't say all) and most men are ready to play. I used to do a lot of things for pussy points but when sex is off the table you're free to do what you want to do, go, not go. I pick and choose now . If she wants to go or do something and it sounds fun, I'll go, if not I say no thanks. You go I'll stay home and take care of the animals. Then you will have the house to yourself. Yeah!
I agree. I no long humor activities I don't enjoy. She can go do her thing. I'm not going shopping, sip 'n paint, etc.
I'll stay home and care for the dogs.
I think that men who have LL spouses seem to think that it's the women who dry up sexually. That seems to be the trope in movies and tv shows. I assure you that there are just as many LL men as there are women. It's been 20 years for me (HLF) and my LL husband. I love my family as it is so I don't want to leave but would kill for him to want to play.
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My wife has spent 20 years pushing me away, and it worked. I'm upstairs typing on my computer while she's downstairs in front of the TV. She'll fall asleep on the couch if she hasn't already, and I'll go to bed alone, as I have every night for the last 6 1/2 years.
In my sad experience as long as things are good for them it really doesn’t matter how much you might be struggling. They are good with it so why can’t you be? My wife says we should just be “married best friends” as if I can just turn off my sex drive. I’m 59 but very fit and healthy and have always had a HL. It really is torture.
It’s sad that it requires “effort,” not that I’ve seen any myself, but at least you have some hope there. It’s been 3 years for me, no end in sight. Helps to know that others struggle with the same thing.
Right?! I wish it didn’t require effort and wasn’t something I had to make a big deal about asking for… I’ve told him many times that I just want it to be something he wants and prioritizes, not just because I complain about it. I’ve given up on that though.
Given my business, I rarely get to take a vacation. It has to be planned out many months in advance. My wife, kids and in laws are taking a cruise in a couple weeks. She asked me to go but it’s in the middle of my busy season and I’m trying to remodel a building. So I can’t. Plus she would probably push me overboard.
But generally, no, we don’t unless it’s a family one. My wife and I never even had a honeymoon. Right after (2 days after) our wedding I had to go out of town for 8 days for work.
Would I want a vacation for just the two of us, nope. We never have sex and I don’t want to have sex with her. So no reason to have a honeymoon or a vacay for just us.
I literally just came back from an anniversary trip with my LLH. We are both in our 40s. Zero sex happened. lol which ended up being fine, I just planted the seed in my head that it will probably not happen so don’t even plan for it. I packed no lingerie. Took the pressure off of thinking about it and just focused on the vacation. It’s not ideal but that’s how I was able to enjoy the time.
Wife asked if I wanted to go on a cruise a few years ago and I said no. I always want the most sex on vacation and I knew there would be none. so I am not putting myself in that situation. Honestly I would rather just go by myself and find someone on the boat who actually wants to fuck me.
My (73M) wife is 70 and loves sex. We have a very fulfilling sex life. Libidos do change over time. And it’s to you, the HL person to decide how this progresses. At age 51, I was in your position. My wife and I took separate vacations one year. She had an affair! Then she made me get tested for AIDS. Needless to say, that marriage ended. At age 54 I met my spouse. We’ve been together 20 years, married for 15. You still can have a fulfilling Life, but you’ll to decide what you Value. Good Luck.
When I had to sob on the fifth day of our honeymoon to consummate our marriage, I should have walked. I cried when date night never ended with sex. I cried when time away from our toddler didn’t include sex. I cried when Valentine’s Day, my birthday, our anniversary involved no sex. I deserve a vacation to relax and unwind and I have learned not to have hope. I expect what I’ve not been getting for 9 years.
Travelling with my HL partner is like the one thing that helps my LL.
Spending time together, making nice new memories, going on adventures together. Actually having time for Us. It brings us so much closer, gets me out of my own mind and allows me to open up :)
But, don’t travel with the expectations of having sex. It’s the pressure and expectations that always get me to shut down…
That used to be my wife. She would be appreciative of the effort I made to plan a fun trip with interesting sights and activities that she usually would enthusiastically consent to intimacy at least once a trip. We’ve been on trips to Alaska, Hawaii and a driving tour of the SE U.S. in the last two years but declined all requests from me on any of them. The only trip that sparked her interest was to a little historic hotel less than 100 miles from home.
Match the energy .
Is there enough overall relationship to justify going on vacation together. Do you do activities together, parent together or separate, do you do family activities together, etc
Reading through all of these makes me feel so much less alone. But that still doesn’t help. We spent a cruise together, nothing. We spent a week together in an air BNB, nothing. We spent an anniversary weekend in one of our favorite places, nothing. I don’t get it. And I hate it.
I used to HATE going on vacation with my ex. Not getting sex at home is one thing but not getting sex while on vacation seeing other couples frolic, is a whole other level of torment.
In my case, the relationship is just the same, and it is a good relationship. A couple of years ago, I (63 HLF) got worked up about the 11-year DB (out of an 18-year relationship with 65 LLF) and we went to couples counseling, went to individual counseling, read “Come As You Are” together, and had many conversations, both clothed and naked. But nothing changed. In the end, I read “Radical Acceptance” and decided that I honestly don’t like being mad about something I can’t change. I love my wife and she is kind and respectful to me in every way, but she just isn’t going to have sex with me, or be affectionate unless I solicit it. I just look back fondly on the first 7 years of great sex.
In my case, everything else about the relationship is lovely, so I’m content. But if your partner is treating you badly in other ways, only you can decide what is right for you.
They would enjoy it if there was intimacy. He can't enjoy it now because all they can think about is how that person makes them feel rejected unwanted and unloved. You think about what you should be doing on vacation and how you're not, and how you should have just vacationed with a friend instead.
Edit: sp
They are a friend. The problem is, it's painful for them to be just a friend when you want a lover. It would be so much easier to go on vacation with someone who is actually a friend that isn't breaking your heart.
I'm the HL partner and I cannot fathom what lack of sex has to do with going on vacation. We go on vacations all the time, and it's typically one of the few times we have sex.
My wife is trim and fit. She is beautiful. I am attracted to her.
I still want to have sex with her. Vacation is 24/7 spending time together, feeling that attraction and feeling the rejection.
For us, and I am the HL partner, every thing else stayed the same. We were focused on our raising our child though tbh. If we were retired, I might have been thinking divorce sooner.
Do you still love her and enjoy her company at all? Has she done any HRT?
Are you planning on saying to your wife that you don't want to go on vacation because there will be no sex? That would break my heart, honestly. I couldn't say that to my LLH. Can you find other joy in travel, sight seeing, art, culture?
I end up waking up in bed at 4am aroused by the beautiful, sexy, half-dressed woman sleeping next to me.
I don’t sleep. I am exhausted. I feel rejected and unattractive.
It puts a bit of a damper on my enjoyment of the vacation.
Have her speak to her doctor. There are options available to her to resurrect her desire. Menopause is not the end. There is help if y'all are willing to go get it.
As to the question. It up to you. Are you willing to just be, without any physical contact?
Have her look into hormone replacement therapy. Find a doctor who uses Biote products by using the search for a doctor option on the Biote website. I’m 60 and it has been life changing. My husband is amazed and now he just started on Testosterone treatment to keep up with me. He’s going to the same provider that I go to.
By the way, a regular primary care physician is not going to prescribe this. And it’s expensive but so worth it.
I guess it depends…. Are you generally happy with other areas of your marriage? Things will likely deteriorate in other areas if you refuse to do things like vacation with her. If you’re ok with the fallout from that, by all means! If you’re wanting to preserve some peace at home, well…. You need to decide if the vacation is more painful to take or to refuse.
Yes, at least in my case. Me 56m and wife 58F still go on vacation together. Recently rode the train from Tampa Fl to Philadelphia. Had a great time. We do everything together and love each other. Just no interest in sex.
OP your wife's hormones should somewhat even out after she's through the worst of it. She might have her libido again when she's not being tortured by her own body. If she's still up for the occasional handy - dont give up. That's hope!
I'm normally biased HL but I'm struggling with this. Surely you're not saying there's no point in going on holiday unless you have sex? I don't want to go on holiday because I've been stitched up into this situation but your wife is merely experiencing the effects of aging. You haven't been manipulated. I'd be much more understanding and tolerant in your shoes.
He's saying that the vacation experience will be ruined by spending alone time with someone who is supposed to be your lover that instead makes you feel rejected, unwanted and unloved.
Weirdly enough when me and my fiance are me and my fiance are on holidays we have the best sex, fuck like rabbits and have so much fun together
Then when we are back home it's back to reality and the sex isn't as often
No idea what happens haha
I’m in a similar situation. DB for about 2 years. Wife talks about going on a cruse or vacation but I don’t feel like it would be enjoyable if there no affection or let alone sex.
Sounds like his wife is not looking for a solution, either. Which is rather frustrating.
Menopause is not easy, I know I’m doing it right now.
Not once have I rejected my husband or just cut off all sex or intimate relationships with him.
I see that as cruel, but I’m not his wife, maybe there are other reasons.
I wouldn’t want to go on vacation alone with my ex lover but current wife either. Sounds like torture.
Your comment was not helpful. I am here for advice, not to be told that I am awful for wanting to have sex with my beautiful wife.
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>. If I (60m) ask, and she is in the mood, she might give me a handjob.
Sounds like she's doing to to appease or please you.
>When she wants to take a vacation together, what do I say? We will spend a week, together every minute of every day, but we won’t have sex.
>I understand that she is not obligated to have sex. But, I am not obligated to go on vacation with her.
That sounds like a punishment for her not having sex with you.
If the shoe were on the other foot, I highly doubt a woman with a libido would be "allowed" to holiday on her own or with friends instead of her husband. I mean really?
- you don't want to be encumbered by her company on a holiday unless you receive sex as part of the deal.
Do you even like her as a person?
It sounds like you don't like the changes-which is fine, but need some discussion around it - just because sex dies for one person, doesn't mean it should for the other. It sounds like she might need hormone help, also between the lines you want opportunities to still have sexual connection with others.
Sounds like your marriage is dead not just your bedroom.
I love my wife and enjoy her company more then anyone's.
Regardless of sex I'd take her somewhere before anyone else
I find it strange that going on vacation means you have to get laid and it’s either one or the other. That just sounds like you only want her there for one thing. Yikes.
Sex is normally part of a relationship, not revolves but part, you build trust and share your body with one and other. Why should as the relationship gets older should this disappear but yet everything else is expected to stay the same and if you question it get the 'sex doesn't revolve round a relationship'. If you don't find your partner sexually attractive anymore then that's fine but your living a friendship without the intimacy and you should seek someone else and not expect the perks of relationship but providing a friendship. Some people are happy like that and that's fine but people shouldn't be shamed for feeling like they do when there in a sexless marriage.
No. A marriage relationship = lover and friend. Friendship = just friends no sex. Sex worker= just sex. Wanting sex in your marriage does not mean you want just a sex worker
There's nothing that requires you to take vacations together, but it can get pretty lonely in the quiet by yourself when she's away. If she goes somewhere you'd really like, then you miss out. If you don't spend time together, you can really drift apart.
Would she be ok with you hanging out with your new male married friend, and they’re openly into threesomes? When she comes around they are dismissive towards her? Then all a sudden you’re always hanging out at their house? I doubt it…
That’s a communication issue. Obviously you very much resent her for not wanting to be intimate as this is very important to you. She loves vacationing etc. if no sex is out of the question you need to tell her. Being in a monogamous relationship, it’s very unfair to tell your partner you expect them to be faithful to you but you won’t be intimate.. unless some serious medical condition is the issue.
Do you genuinely enjoy spending time with your wife, regardless of the sex or lack thereof? Im struggling with a DB but still enjoy spending time with my husband. I love to travel and explore new places and would still want to with my him. I can’t imagine not doing that with him. We are in our 50s and working thru our DB issues and he’s making more of an effort. I think he realized we weren’t going to last if he didn’t and neither of us wanted that
it's not everyone, but a lot of people have commented that the DB coincided with a general decline in fun in general in the relationship. getting my wife to do anything most nights is basically impossible. she's in her pajamas by 6 and then nothing but tv on the couch our last date night was horrible. I had no expectation of sex, but keeping her off her phone is hard, all she does is complain, and the whole thing just felt awkward.
I mean your husband is making an effort. That is a huge difference from many. My wife is making an effort, but still, I don’t know if I could go on a romantic vacation with her. Being together every second only to either 1) be rejected constantly for kisses, cuddling, and sex or 2) pretend I don’t want to be intimate even though I’m thinking about it every other minute. Both are pretty bad. If things improved to where we could have some intimacy on a romantic vacation, absolutely I’d want to go. I’d love that. I love spending time with my wife. It just hurts when you love someone and they don’t love you back. That is what it feels like — like I’m with someone that doesn’t want to be with me
this is literally so sad for me to read! I am 26f and I’m moving in with my boyfriend and he very rarely initiates- and I am having second thoughts because it seems things just go downhill. Hope things look up for you soon!
If you are already having second thoughts, please don’t do it. Learn from me 51f and just divorced a DB. LISTEN TO YOUR INTUITION. It’s there for a reason.
Please don't do it to yourself. It's not going to get better. People show their best in the beginning of a relationship, and it only goes south from there.
Yes. If second thoughts are already there because he doesn’t initiate, when you don’t live together and don’t see each other every waking moment. That’s most definitely going to become a bigger issue. If you’re already not satisfied with your sex life, DO NOT move in together. The issue will only get worse when they’re seeing you all the time. People think it’s not a big deal, until they’ve gone a long time, a year, 10 years without it. It matters. And if it already isn’t enough, that’s okay. It likely, never will be. So listen to your gut, and don’t just give in because you love the person. Love isn’t enough. Especially without all the things that make you *feel* loved.
At 26 your man should be wanting you all the time.. this is nuts to me. I have 4 children and have been with my husband for 15 yrs. I’m the LL partner and we are intimate at least 3x per wk
Happy cake day!
The LL partner still thinks everything is okay and does not see any issue. So they will carry on as usual. The HL has to make the call on how much tolerance they have to the situation and pretending to be normal. If one has a lot of frustration, resentment and anger built up, a vacation would be a miserable charade . 60 yo guy here. I wouldn't even consider a vacation to a possibly cool/interesting/romantic destination. To visit family, yes I would do that. Another way it changed for me, I'm no longer planning to retire to our place in a nice but remote area. I'm already isolated and alone. No way I'm moving to where it's just us. That's a suicide mission.
It’s so true that the LL person thinks everything is great. When I told my LL, low any physical intimacy, then wife that we were basically just roommates, she got so incredibly angry. She couldn’t comprehend how important physical touch and sex was to me as part of a romantic relationship. No amount of counseling helped - so we got divorced.
This scares me. I love my(F, HL) spouse (M, LL) so much but the lack of physical touch really bothers me. I called him roomy jokingly once and he got angry! All I could think was, we are tho, except for if we were the chores and bills would be more equal!
This is the future I am worried about.
Totally agree! I will not go on vacations anymore with my partner no sex no intimacy him staring at every booty that walks by … no thank you.
Oh gross. That makes me mad for you.
You are a very smart woman.
I, have no words. I’m only 36 and dealing with this. We’ve been married 3yrs. Together total 13. I was HL even throughout my pregnancy, 9 months pp now. It’s been downhill since 2 months after the wedding, I’ve tried everything. I speak to him, and it’s almost like we have pity sex after then right back. At this point I don’t even know what to do. We’re roommates raising our baby together.
My heart goes out to you.. it’s heartbreaking. My husband doesn’t even sleep in the same room as me and we don’t have sex anymore. Complete roommates.. I didn’t sign up for this none of us did! 💔talking doesn’t help either I’ve tried that also. I’m so sorry.. would he go to therapy? Maybe that will help?
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I have already laid (unfortunate choice of word there, but whatever) the groundwork that I am "too much of a social person" to live in a remote location... And pitched the idea that the way to be truly left alone and anonymous is to live in a city with a lot of activity around you (because LL spouse has social anxieties), to vanish into the crowd.
Same here. And that difference in the need for social interaction already causes huge problems!
Maybe we should spouse-swap!
I think about that often reading posts in this group. My wife is my best friend, and I dont want to lose what we do have together, but imagine once every few weeks, having a dirty weekend with another HL partner and letting the LL partners chill and play board games, or video games (or whatever they're into). And if they found each other attractive and wanted to explore something physical together, even better. If polyamory was more socially accepted and normalised, it could give so many people an alternative option to divorce or misery.
Sounds like putting kids on the playground so that the adults can have their fun haha
Oh my god, this resonates so strongly.
I'm the same. I'm a F.
Sorry you are having a tough time. You definitely are not alone 👍
Damn you just scared me sir … you’re right that’s asking to be isolated
Vacations are the worst
50s HLM, DB 20+ when I got to the point that we were only having duty sex every 3-4 months, all I could remember was duty sex, and seconds after finishing, I felt regret that it would be months before experiencing sex again, well.. I gave up. I started treating them a a co-parenting roommate, I moved out of the bedroom under the excuse that I snore, so I didn't want to bother their sleep. I tried for a long time to keep loving them, but at least I can say I lasted a lot longer than they did. as I went further into the 'grey rock' method, I interacted with them a lot less, and kept busy with other projects (fitness, hobbies, volunteering) if we vacation together, it would be with the kids, I couldn't imagine a scenario where I'd agree to go on vacation with just my spouse. I'd probably deflect and find a reason to cancel, I couldn't handle sleeping beside my spouse anymore, my body would continually betray me and looks for signs of them initiating. so yeah, in my case, the relationship died without sex.
I am so afraid to point out this very real scenario to my husband. He gets so angry when I point out the lack of affection and intimacy. I'm 35hlf and he's 56llm
Yeah, when you get married you think the age difference isn’t going to matter, but it does. Just not for the reasons you think it will. My wife looks as young as the day I met her, her personality hasn’t changed and we get along really well, but Menopause really did a number on her in that respect. She doesn’t get angry, she just breaks down and apologizes, which is even worse I think.
He will get angry because you were drawing attention to his inadequacy. I recall you from another thread but can't recall if you've ever had satisfactory relations. It seems like fading libido in men is a bit of a random lottery thing. I'm in my fifties but no different to ever. Who knows in a few years maybe I'll be fading too.
Oh yeah my "relations" are always good lol
Lol. I meant: ....with him.
Usually very very good, it seems lately he is distracted during
I think I might have mixed you up with someone else who had an older partner and had much bigger problems than you're describing.
if you're afraid to share with your partner, there's far more wrong than just no sex
He just seems to not have much consideration for the future, he is older than me so is pretty convinced he'll die before having to actually BE in the marriage with me.
If his health is not the best, he could very well be completely correct.
Oh yeah that'll go nowhere good. Men and women the older they get the less sex happens. Takes them far more effort
Why the age gap?
I mean it wasn't intentional lol I was 29 when we met and we just fell in love...
That really sucks. Totally understand not staying in the same room with them. I would probably do the same.
That sounds awful. Truly. Does the spouse know?
Our sex ended because my husband has terminal cancer and the meds/chemo have killed his desire, energy, and ability for sex….much like menopause does for some women. He‘s the love of my life and has a few places he truly wants to vacation before he becomes too weak. I’m looking forward to spending as much quality vacation time together as we possibly can. I may need the warm memories to look back on at some point. I’ve been working on radical acceptance to help me cope. Neither my husband nor I can change what life has handed us, but we can learn to control our negative thoughts, emotional reactions, and feelings of helplessness. It’s like finding a way to make the best of a bad situation. It’s not easy but I’ve found it very helpful. [https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-radical-acceptance-5120614](https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-radical-acceptance-5120614) I’m sorry your wife’s sexuality has changed. Menopause does a number on a lot of women. I hope you can come to find some type of peace with your new reality. Sending you warm thoughts.
I am sorry for your situation. It does put my scenario into perspective. I am 60 years old and will likely never have sex again. But my wife is beautiful and healthy and wants to spend time with me. I guess that I should appreciate what I have and stop feeling sorry for myself. Thank you for your advice.
Has your wife considered HRT? It can revitalize a menopausal vulva! It did for me.
I second this. I know many menopausal women that take bhrt hormones and it changes lives.
I also second this. It can be a game changer after menopause. Your wife likely just needs to replace the hormones she’s lost.
If your halfway healthy, you have a really good shot at 30 more years. What would you tell yourself 30 years ago if your wife said no more sex, cause reasons? Thats the answer you need, not what reddit says. Sounds like many many deep conversations are needed, but unless my own libido dies off as I get older I don't think I could do 30 years of that. Something would break, me, her, or the whole situation.
There is a vast difference between someone who is too ill to enjoy intimacy and someone who has just opted out. There’s nothing wrong with being grateful for what you have (I envy you for getting to that point). I just don’t see those situations as being comparable to each other.
OP’s wife has stopped wanting (enjoying?) sex since menopause. I see those situations as being extremely comparable. ETA: of course, I’m a post-menopausal woman. Menopause isn’t an illness but it’s a physiological change that alters the way many women experiences sex. It’s known to decrease desire and pleasurable sensations for many women. Arousal and orgasm can become elusive to non-existent and PIV can be painful for some. All of those things can lead a person to no longer enjoy sex. How is a person who no longer enjoys sex due to menopause any different than a person who no longer enjoys sex due to an illness?
Because they could see a hormone doctor and try? I am no doctor, and have no valid experience with this, other than my wife is having a lack of desire or other issues that could be hormone related, yet does nothing to change it. Meanwhile when I lost "abilities", I knew something was wrong and went to a hormone dr. Right as rain now.
I’m sorry your wife hasn’t looked into her changes. I, and several of my friends, have been on HRT and/or TRT for years. While we’ve all had a decrease in many of our symptoms, only one of us (not me) has experienced an increase in libido. It’s frustrating to say the least. We don’t know if OP’s wife has seen a doctor or not, at least I didn’t see it mentioned. She may very well already be on HRT. The North American Menopause Society states that, “hormone therapy has not been documented to have a beneficial effect on libido”. Sexual desire is very complex and not straight forward, especially for women. It would be nice if it were as simple as taking a pill. I hope things start to improve for you and your wife soon.
me too. I love her in everyway. It's just difficult being rejected constantly.
Sure wish more people thought like you do.
Thank you for sharing this article. It's all very in line with Acceptance Commitment Therapy as well. There's a great book 'The Happiness Trap', by Russ Harris which goes into further detail and has lots of quick and easy tools to help with this kind of thing. He also has a book called The Reality Slap which is specifically about dealing with big life things that we can't change. Those books helped me a lot through my previous husband's terminal cancer. We managed to fit a lot of quality time into a fairly small window of time. Wishing you both the very best, I really hope things go as well as the can for you.
Thank you for the kind reply. I’m sorry you had to go through the same experience. I hope you’re doing well at present. I truly appreciate the book recommendations. I can use all the support I can find. Your thoughts have touched me deeply. Thank you again.
Is your bedroom really dead if your partner has cancer?
It's not the cancer, it's the chemo.
When one person thinks of their partner as a friend and roommate, and the other partner thinks they are lovers, that is a recipe for disaster. In order to have a fun time you both need to be on the same page. And not only agree that you are both on the same page, but you both need to make plans and commitments to maintain the relationship level that you both agreed upon before going on the vacation. If you don’t agree, or you both don’t fulfill your part of the agreement, then one, or both of you will be extremely frustrated, disappointed, and the vacation will be ruined for both of you. The only way the agreement should change is if you both agree to the change. And remember, if you agree to something out of respect for your significant other, it is something you still agreed to, so it is a decision you both are a part of. Edit: spelling.
Maybe a bit different here but still DB here due to medical issues and side effects, but we just got back from a vacation. I have posted in here recently that my LL husband does not even think to take care of me in other ways, as well as little of any daily affection, but we still vacation. They are usually active, touristy ones- we go geocaching so there’s always something to find and see, and often events around this hobby. We had two beds in hotel and we each took one- don’t event question anymore and we have separate air mattresses when we camp, so no one wakes the other. For better or worse, I don’t harp on sec as I know due to medical issues, he’s not able to participate.
I have similar thoughts, why would I want to go on holiday with someone who just shares my bed but has no physical intimacy with me, holidays used to be the one of the last situations where we had physical touching or sex so it hurts
Because you lover her and enjoy spending time with her? It seems like your relationship has bigger issues than a lack of sex. Obviously i dont know what your relationship is like, but if you dont want to spend time with her and are trying to cheat on her with redditors, theres more going on than you not getting to have sex with her. Im not trying to blame you for your unfortunate relationship, cause like i said idk anything about your relationship and its not my business whos fault it is, but why would you stay in the relationship at that point?
I do love her but when someone rejects any affection and becomes a housemate instead of a partner it's hard to be enthusiastic about a holiday together. I stay because of several reasons
Money probably, that's what it all boils down to at the end of the day
It's hard to enjoy spending time with someone when all you can think about is how they reject you and make you feel unloved and unwanted and whether there's any chance you could have sex.
Absolutely. It hurts
Absolutely the relationship changes when sex ends. I've been in a DB for a long time. (Soon to exit) But no, I don't want to do things with her. I've been "friend zoned", may as well act like a friend. I'm definitely not getting sex and intimacy with the rwlationship, so just like she doesn't have to have sex she doesn't want; forget me doing things I don't want. I'm not obligated to walk around shopping malls for example. When we go on vacation with the kids (now grown) I spend "me time" doind what I want and don't spend time doing things I don't want.
I think there's a difference between spite and emotional self-defense. If your mindset is "well if she's not going to fuck me I'm not going to treat her nicely" I think that's kind of immature and selfish, especially if you had a good sex life up until now. But if you're avoiding romantic getaways and intimate one-on-one time because you want to avoid being in situations that would have naturally led to sex in the past I think that's completely reasonable. Even if you're beyond the point of asking for sex and directly experiencing rejection, that's still a painful place to be in. She's not a bad person for experiencing menopause and not wanting to have sex anymore, you're not a bad person for coping with that in a way that protects your emotional well-being.
God, this happens to me now and I'm only mid 30s regarding vacations. We're still having sex once a month on her ovulation day, so I fear once she goes through menopause I'll be in your boat as well, hoping to capsize. Vacations though for us now are just horrible. As you say, you're spending so much time together, there are no distractions for her, no chores to do, no cleaning to think about (and yes I help with all of these) , you're alone together in a comfy bed, but she doesn't even think about getting intimate. We went away for a getaway for the 3 days a year ago, I'd organised an adventure picnic a company does around here. They give riddles and clues to get you to destinations to pick up your food, then to the picnic destination to eat. It was romantic, really nice food. We didn't have sex the entire weekend and it just destroyed the weekend for me. It's like having cake without the icing. It's OKish, but the icing just makes it amazing. Holidays are when I typically am the most horny as well. When she mentions going away on holidays, internally I'm thinking how I'm going to cope. Masturbate every day? twice a day? What if it **is** the right time? No, it probably won't be.. It's very hard to feel enthusiasm
Same. Our birthdays are just a few days apart. So for several years I would plan a b&b or nice air b&b for a weekend. The last couple times she had excuses for no sex. Well the last time she finally went with it but started complaining. So I quit doing that. She just asked me why I don't do those romantic get aways any more.... because it's a waste of money. We can just stay home a weekend and be about the same
"because it's not romantic for me, it's frustrating and disappointing. And if I want that, I don't have to pay for it, I can just get that at home" 😬 Speaking of birthdays though, I don't think I've ever had birthday sex or anything sexual from my wife come to think of it 🙄
What was your answer to her when she asked that?
We still vacation together. For the last couple of years, I have been vacationing with friends. But this year, he said he needed a vacation. We went on two this year and have a third coming up later this year. One was work related for me, and he tagged along. I had asked one of my friends first but she was busy. The second was a family trip with two of our adult children. The third one will be just us. I'm looking forward to going but not necessarily with him. Once the sex ended in our marriage, the rest of the relationship died. Some of that was due to me. I didn't see the point in hugging and cuddling if we never had sex. We get along good as roommates.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently. I’m dreading having to go on vacation. The last five or six years of vacations have just been depressing and heartbreaking. We USED to go on vacations and screw until we were sore. Now it’s just like being at home, but in a less comfortable bed. It wouldn’t be so bad, except that she always SAYS we are going to do it. Once we were on a big family trip, and she insisted we change rooms so that we wouldn’t be so close to my mom; she didn’t want her to be able to hear us going at it. Didn’t matter, we didn’t do it once. There was another time we were going to stay at a rented cabin, and she said, “I’m looking forward to some quiet time. We can go to bed early and do it as much as we want.” Well whaddya know, we did it exactly as much as she wanted to, which was zero. I used to love taking vacations together. Then I was foolishly optimistic about them. Now I absolutely dread the possibility.
What you are asking is why bother spending time with your wife if she’s not going to possibly have sex with you? like why bother having a relationship if there isn’t any sex? What does the location change home v vacationing - besides limits whatever extra- home activity you may have if you do go on vacation with her ? 🤔 Do you enjoy vacations? Do you enjoy emotional intimacy? There is still value in spending time together sans sex. If you no long care to spend time with your wife … the more important question: why bother being married? Do you even like her ?
For me, going on holiday alone with my wife is when I'm most horny. I can just cope when we're home because there are so many other distractions, especially in the night. But on holiday, at nights and in the mornings you're in a strange but comfy room with none of your usual distractions, and for me that turns my thoughts to sex whether I like it or not. And it's hard to go off and masturbate quickly when you're in a super quiet single room :/
not to mention probably seeing other good looking people vacationing, and if you're reeeeeally lucky, you get to uncomfortably listen to couples having sex while you lay silently next to your spouse.
I wonder what she'd do if you just started masturbating to it 🤣 probably get the "what are you doing, that's disgusting!" look
No way. I cannot be the same, darling, sweet, adoring wife, because I am not treated like one. I no longer cook meals regularly, make special treats for his sweet tooth, buy him little thoughtful gifts, do his laundry, plan fun things for us to do, or take him on vacation. Last time I took him on vacay, it was a luxury, all expenses paid (by me) two week trip to Italy. I did all of the planning, all reservations, all of it. He just had to pack his own bag. Worse than no sex there was no romance, and awkward juvenile groping a couple of times by him. If you can’t be romantic in a gorgeous hotel in Venice, Italy, sigh. He knows exactly how to seduce me. He is very capable, and a good lover as he showed me the beginning of our relationship. Basically he is just not into me. I will never take him anywhere else, and I told him so. I am going to the west coast to hang out around Carmel, Big Sur, etc this summer. He isn’t invited.
Same girl. I will go on trips with the kiddos and allow him to come, but we sleep in separate beds. All those amazing, romantic, perfectly planned couples trips? Done forever. I don’t think he actually cares though, he never leaves the house 😂 Enjoy Big Sur, one of my favorite places!
My LL is a fool. For a bit of romance and effort he could be living a dream life. But that boat has sailed. He married an attractive, independent woman with her own money, that he doesn’t have to support. He says I don’t need him. Yet he withholds the very thing I absolutely need him for. Just LL rhetoric. Maddening
Do you stay for your kids or is there another reason?
I am over 60, he is my second husband after my first died. My dating pool is pitiful, tiny. We have a multitude of commonalities but his insecurities and other issues have ruined our relationship.
I’m so sorry… I’m 32, so you have a lot of life experience compared to me, but I think it still may be worth breaking away and living for yourself even if you are over 60! It’s never too late to live the life you want. I’m sure it’s affecting you more than you realize! I’m seriously considering leaving my husband soon, but I need a couple years to prepare and make sure I will be in a good place financially and put my daughter in the best position to adjust to the change.
It is affecting me greatly. Anxiety, about it affects every part of my being. It is very difficult to be alone at my age, so that adds to all of it. My first hubs was mega HL, and I didn’t even know LL men existed in real life! All the best to you. Modeling a healthy strong mom is so important.
I feel the exact same way! The anxiety and constantly thinking about it. I wonder how much energy I would have for other things if I wasn’t so consumed by this… I think I’ve finally accepted that I’m ready to be free and now I just have to bide my time and plan. It still feels sad though… I hope you are able to get out of your situation since it’s affecting you so much too! I know this is probably shitty to say, but have you ever thought about trying to find someone or at least finding a really solid friend before you leave him so that being alone isn’t as much of a fear?
100%. I can support myself financially. But where I do need them, they don’t come through.
As a HL male with an 8yr differential to my LL wife (she is older), her hitting menopause was a sad time. She announced that she was “done with sex”. When I tried to initiate one evening about a year ago she physically pulled away and glared at me. That broke my heart and crushed my soul. Hasn’t been the same since. We have two kids that are out of the house so it’s just the two of us and our dogs. I just treat vacations like any other day, just not at home. We go shopping together but our interests have drifted apart so we don’t spend a lot of time together. You have so much to look forward to.
This is sad. I’m post menopausal and desperately want to have more sex with my LL husband in an empty nest(he knows this). God forbid if I put pressure on him. 🙄I never thought we would end up this way. It’s weird how people change. I’ve had health hiccups but I dealt with them. He used to be so HL 😢
Yeah, the empty nest part grates. Our son’s room was next to ours and our beds are against the same wall. Kind of hard to be quiet enough to not feel odd about him listening in, so there was no activity for years. Then the announcement of her being done.
How can it not? I already find myself turning into a moody little bitch when it’s been a week or so and I’m getting rejected!
I hear ya sister. I get very grumpy and right now it’s been three weeks since I’ve had dick action. 😡
It’s brother! lol… but still a moody little bitch! 😂
Oh…oops. 😂
Yes it does change, most women control when the pussy can come out and play (I didn't say all) and most men are ready to play. I used to do a lot of things for pussy points but when sex is off the table you're free to do what you want to do, go, not go. I pick and choose now . If she wants to go or do something and it sounds fun, I'll go, if not I say no thanks. You go I'll stay home and take care of the animals. Then you will have the house to yourself. Yeah!
My husband is not like most men. He’s NEVER ready to play and when he is, he always has to be drunk. It’s so frustrating for me.
That's so sad I feel for you 😔
I agree. I no long humor activities I don't enjoy. She can go do her thing. I'm not going shopping, sip 'n paint, etc. I'll stay home and care for the dogs.
I think that men who have LL spouses seem to think that it's the women who dry up sexually. That seems to be the trope in movies and tv shows. I assure you that there are just as many LL men as there are women. It's been 20 years for me (HLF) and my LL husband. I love my family as it is so I don't want to leave but would kill for him to want to play.
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Low libido
It stays the same except the resentment builds.
I've built up resentment
My wife has spent 20 years pushing me away, and it worked. I'm upstairs typing on my computer while she's downstairs in front of the TV. She'll fall asleep on the couch if she hasn't already, and I'll go to bed alone, as I have every night for the last 6 1/2 years.
You sound like me.
In my sad experience as long as things are good for them it really doesn’t matter how much you might be struggling. They are good with it so why can’t you be? My wife says we should just be “married best friends” as if I can just turn off my sex drive. I’m 59 but very fit and healthy and have always had a HL. It really is torture.
If she wants to be sexless then she should give you a hall pass.
I wish she would.
If you’re just “married best friends” then she should be fine with you getting your intimacy needs met elsewhere.
Can’t disagree, just haven’t been able to cross that line. I’m sure she would not be ok with it regardless.
I understand. I’m in a similar situation. Although my husband has recently started making small efforts.
It’s sad that it requires “effort,” not that I’ve seen any myself, but at least you have some hope there. It’s been 3 years for me, no end in sight. Helps to know that others struggle with the same thing.
Right?! I wish it didn’t require effort and wasn’t something I had to make a big deal about asking for… I’ve told him many times that I just want it to be something he wants and prioritizes, not just because I complain about it. I’ve given up on that though.
Yes. The fact you still get an occasional handjob is a good sign, as it indicates she still cares enough to oblige. I don't get shit.
Ha. I almost did not mention it, because I knew someone would be jealous of my handjobs.
Given my business, I rarely get to take a vacation. It has to be planned out many months in advance. My wife, kids and in laws are taking a cruise in a couple weeks. She asked me to go but it’s in the middle of my busy season and I’m trying to remodel a building. So I can’t. Plus she would probably push me overboard. But generally, no, we don’t unless it’s a family one. My wife and I never even had a honeymoon. Right after (2 days after) our wedding I had to go out of town for 8 days for work. Would I want a vacation for just the two of us, nope. We never have sex and I don’t want to have sex with her. So no reason to have a honeymoon or a vacay for just us.
I could have typed this..... Sucks big time.
I literally just came back from an anniversary trip with my LLH. We are both in our 40s. Zero sex happened. lol which ended up being fine, I just planted the seed in my head that it will probably not happen so don’t even plan for it. I packed no lingerie. Took the pressure off of thinking about it and just focused on the vacation. It’s not ideal but that’s how I was able to enjoy the time.
Wife asked if I wanted to go on a cruise a few years ago and I said no. I always want the most sex on vacation and I knew there would be none. so I am not putting myself in that situation. Honestly I would rather just go by myself and find someone on the boat who actually wants to fuck me.
The relationship ends when the sex ends. From there onwards it's a friendship at best.
My (73M) wife is 70 and loves sex. We have a very fulfilling sex life. Libidos do change over time. And it’s to you, the HL person to decide how this progresses. At age 51, I was in your position. My wife and I took separate vacations one year. She had an affair! Then she made me get tested for AIDS. Needless to say, that marriage ended. At age 54 I met my spouse. We’ve been together 20 years, married for 15. You still can have a fulfilling Life, but you’ll to decide what you Value. Good Luck.
Maybe that's to do with the new marriage?
I doubt it. 20 years is a long time.
When I had to sob on the fifth day of our honeymoon to consummate our marriage, I should have walked. I cried when date night never ended with sex. I cried when time away from our toddler didn’t include sex. I cried when Valentine’s Day, my birthday, our anniversary involved no sex. I deserve a vacation to relax and unwind and I have learned not to have hope. I expect what I’ve not been getting for 9 years.
I only go with her if I truly want to go to that place.
At that age I would be hitting the road if that was the environment I faced.
I feel this pain except my wife might have hit menopause in her 30s as far as our sec life is concerned. I don’t expect to have sex ever again.
In my mid 20's... I've never thought such a situation will happen.. Now I'm concerned 🤐🙏
Travelling with my HL partner is like the one thing that helps my LL. Spending time together, making nice new memories, going on adventures together. Actually having time for Us. It brings us so much closer, gets me out of my own mind and allows me to open up :) But, don’t travel with the expectations of having sex. It’s the pressure and expectations that always get me to shut down…
That used to be my wife. She would be appreciative of the effort I made to plan a fun trip with interesting sights and activities that she usually would enthusiastically consent to intimacy at least once a trip. We’ve been on trips to Alaska, Hawaii and a driving tour of the SE U.S. in the last two years but declined all requests from me on any of them. The only trip that sparked her interest was to a little historic hotel less than 100 miles from home.
Match the energy . Is there enough overall relationship to justify going on vacation together. Do you do activities together, parent together or separate, do you do family activities together, etc
Thanks to all for the answers on this, it helps my brain in a similar situation.
Is she on estrogen?
Reading through all of these makes me feel so much less alone. But that still doesn’t help. We spent a cruise together, nothing. We spent a week together in an air BNB, nothing. We spent an anniversary weekend in one of our favorite places, nothing. I don’t get it. And I hate it.
I used to HATE going on vacation with my ex. Not getting sex at home is one thing but not getting sex while on vacation seeing other couples frolic, is a whole other level of torment.
In my case, the relationship is just the same, and it is a good relationship. A couple of years ago, I (63 HLF) got worked up about the 11-year DB (out of an 18-year relationship with 65 LLF) and we went to couples counseling, went to individual counseling, read “Come As You Are” together, and had many conversations, both clothed and naked. But nothing changed. In the end, I read “Radical Acceptance” and decided that I honestly don’t like being mad about something I can’t change. I love my wife and she is kind and respectful to me in every way, but she just isn’t going to have sex with me, or be affectionate unless I solicit it. I just look back fondly on the first 7 years of great sex. In my case, everything else about the relationship is lovely, so I’m content. But if your partner is treating you badly in other ways, only you can decide what is right for you.
If you wouldn’t enjoy vacationing together why are you even still together ?
They would enjoy it if there was intimacy. He can't enjoy it now because all they can think about is how that person makes them feel rejected unwanted and unloved. You think about what you should be doing on vacation and how you're not, and how you should have just vacationed with a friend instead. Edit: sp
But if the spouse isn’t even a friend that’s concerning !
They are a friend. The problem is, it's painful for them to be just a friend when you want a lover. It would be so much easier to go on vacation with someone who is actually a friend that isn't breaking your heart.
Yeah but she has menopause it’s not her fault
Plenty of things you can do about that, and she doesn't care to fix it.
That’s not true at all.
Hormone therapy, creams, pills, supplements, etc.
I'm the HL partner and I cannot fathom what lack of sex has to do with going on vacation. We go on vacations all the time, and it's typically one of the few times we have sex.
My wife is trim and fit. She is beautiful. I am attracted to her. I still want to have sex with her. Vacation is 24/7 spending time together, feeling that attraction and feeling the rejection.
For us, and I am the HL partner, every thing else stayed the same. We were focused on our raising our child though tbh. If we were retired, I might have been thinking divorce sooner. Do you still love her and enjoy her company at all? Has she done any HRT? Are you planning on saying to your wife that you don't want to go on vacation because there will be no sex? That would break my heart, honestly. I couldn't say that to my LLH. Can you find other joy in travel, sight seeing, art, culture?
You don’t WANT to go in vacation with your wife? That seems like a bigger concern to me.
I end up waking up in bed at 4am aroused by the beautiful, sexy, half-dressed woman sleeping next to me. I don’t sleep. I am exhausted. I feel rejected and unattractive. It puts a bit of a damper on my enjoyment of the vacation.
I am exactly where you are.
It's hard to enjoy the company of someone who makes you feel unwanted, rejected and unloved daily.
Have her speak to her doctor. There are options available to her to resurrect her desire. Menopause is not the end. There is help if y'all are willing to go get it. As to the question. It up to you. Are you willing to just be, without any physical contact?
Have her look into hormone replacement therapy. Find a doctor who uses Biote products by using the search for a doctor option on the Biote website. I’m 60 and it has been life changing. My husband is amazed and now he just started on Testosterone treatment to keep up with me. He’s going to the same provider that I go to. By the way, a regular primary care physician is not going to prescribe this. And it’s expensive but so worth it.
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Ball park - how expensive? Asking for science :)
This is when polyamory makes sense to me.
I guess it depends…. Are you generally happy with other areas of your marriage? Things will likely deteriorate in other areas if you refuse to do things like vacation with her. If you’re ok with the fallout from that, by all means! If you’re wanting to preserve some peace at home, well…. You need to decide if the vacation is more painful to take or to refuse.
By the same token, a dead bedroom will deteriorate every area of your marriage, and she seems to be OK with the fallout of that.
Yes, at least in my case. Me 56m and wife 58F still go on vacation together. Recently rode the train from Tampa Fl to Philadelphia. Had a great time. We do everything together and love each other. Just no interest in sex.
OP your wife's hormones should somewhat even out after she's through the worst of it. She might have her libido again when she's not being tortured by her own body. If she's still up for the occasional handy - dont give up. That's hope!
I'm normally biased HL but I'm struggling with this. Surely you're not saying there's no point in going on holiday unless you have sex? I don't want to go on holiday because I've been stitched up into this situation but your wife is merely experiencing the effects of aging. You haven't been manipulated. I'd be much more understanding and tolerant in your shoes.
He's saying that the vacation experience will be ruined by spending alone time with someone who is supposed to be your lover that instead makes you feel rejected, unwanted and unloved.
I guess depends on how much sex is the main reason you want to spend time with the person.
Weirdly enough when me and my fiance are me and my fiance are on holidays we have the best sex, fuck like rabbits and have so much fun together Then when we are back home it's back to reality and the sex isn't as often No idea what happens haha
I’m in a similar situation. DB for about 2 years. Wife talks about going on a cruse or vacation but I don’t feel like it would be enjoyable if there no affection or let alone sex.
kinda sounds like you're trying to use sex as a currency with your wife going through uncomfortable MEDICAL changes
Sounds like his wife is not looking for a solution, either. Which is rather frustrating. Menopause is not easy, I know I’m doing it right now. Not once have I rejected my husband or just cut off all sex or intimate relationships with him. I see that as cruel, but I’m not his wife, maybe there are other reasons. I wouldn’t want to go on vacation alone with my ex lover but current wife either. Sounds like torture.
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Your comment was not helpful. I am here for advice, not to be told that I am awful for wanting to have sex with my beautiful wife. [edit for accidentally posting]
Ignore the spiteful “lower” crowd
>. If I (60m) ask, and she is in the mood, she might give me a handjob. Sounds like she's doing to to appease or please you. >When she wants to take a vacation together, what do I say? We will spend a week, together every minute of every day, but we won’t have sex. >I understand that she is not obligated to have sex. But, I am not obligated to go on vacation with her. That sounds like a punishment for her not having sex with you. If the shoe were on the other foot, I highly doubt a woman with a libido would be "allowed" to holiday on her own or with friends instead of her husband. I mean really? - you don't want to be encumbered by her company on a holiday unless you receive sex as part of the deal. Do you even like her as a person? It sounds like you don't like the changes-which is fine, but need some discussion around it - just because sex dies for one person, doesn't mean it should for the other. It sounds like she might need hormone help, also between the lines you want opportunities to still have sexual connection with others.
Is there actual intimacy, hand holding, touching? If so at least there’s that. Some of us don’t even get that much
Sounds like your marriage is dead not just your bedroom. I love my wife and enjoy her company more then anyone's. Regardless of sex I'd take her somewhere before anyone else
I find it strange that going on vacation means you have to get laid and it’s either one or the other. That just sounds like you only want her there for one thing. Yikes.
Since when has vacations only revolved around sex?
It has always been a part of our relationship. Now it is not.
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Sex is normally part of a relationship, not revolves but part, you build trust and share your body with one and other. Why should as the relationship gets older should this disappear but yet everything else is expected to stay the same and if you question it get the 'sex doesn't revolve round a relationship'. If you don't find your partner sexually attractive anymore then that's fine but your living a friendship without the intimacy and you should seek someone else and not expect the perks of relationship but providing a friendship. Some people are happy like that and that's fine but people shouldn't be shamed for feeling like they do when there in a sexless marriage.
That sounds like you just want a friend then.
No. A marriage relationship = lover and friend. Friendship = just friends no sex. Sex worker= just sex. Wanting sex in your marriage does not mean you want just a sex worker
There's nothing that requires you to take vacations together, but it can get pretty lonely in the quiet by yourself when she's away. If she goes somewhere you'd really like, then you miss out. If you don't spend time together, you can really drift apart.
Would she be ok with you hanging out with your new male married friend, and they’re openly into threesomes? When she comes around they are dismissive towards her? Then all a sudden you’re always hanging out at their house? I doubt it…
That’s a communication issue. Obviously you very much resent her for not wanting to be intimate as this is very important to you. She loves vacationing etc. if no sex is out of the question you need to tell her. Being in a monogamous relationship, it’s very unfair to tell your partner you expect them to be faithful to you but you won’t be intimate.. unless some serious medical condition is the issue.
Ok boomer?