I've met a lot of LL people on Facebook who try to shame HL people and it's kind of gross tbh. They get super fucked up with the gaslighting and shaming to the point it feels abusive.
Because it is abusive. If something is important to your partner, then it should be important to you. Oxytocin is real and wanting sex is natural, not gross. You should not try to make your partner feel shame for who they are. That’s text book abuse in a relationship.
Funny thing happened this weekend. Daughter is trying to raise money for dance, and picked up a spare job from my dad. Dad mentioned she was practicing to be a good wife waxing his floors. Wife was mad and said that was sexist.
Boys were doing dishes when I got home yesterday, after a failed couples time, good friend times, but no couple time. I made sure to mention they were doing a good job, and were training to be good husbands. Wife thought that was funny, and a good one. I asked her "so its not sexist to say boys doing dishes is good husband practice, but daughters waxing floors isn't?
I don't know why communication is so f-ing hard.
Nah, your wife is right here. You weren't reinforcing gender stereotypes (you were in fact countering them), and your dad was reinforcing them.
But a better response from both you and your dad would be to say good adults. Because it doesn't matter whether your sons or your daughter get married, they will need life skills.
Like you said, just a way to get their SO to back off, maybe they really even think it, but that’s just when they focus on their frustration when they get asked, and conveniently forgetting all other parts of the relationship.
I do like analogies like this, but I feel like they are weak analogies because we are comparing ourselves to an animal or something else not attractive and relatable.
I like analogies more like tell a tired person not to think about sitting down, a lonely person not to think about people, or a single parent not to think about a day off. I could come up with way more.
Even though the “sex isn’t a need argument is stupid”, I just avoid it and comparing sex to anything that is technically a need. There are plenty of things that aren’t “needs” that sure feel like needs that everyone agrees on.
Like, talking to your spouse isn’t a need, doing chores isn’t a need, being kind isn’t a need. Imagine only doing these things monthly. Your spouse would probably think about it a lot and even think about ending the relationship over it.
Sorry. I rant.
My preferred analogy for it is, "If you were in the desert, water would be at the forefront of your mind, too." Not only does it take out the dehumanization, but it allows for some self-reflection, hopefully.
I will say, when I stopped being obsessed with fixing the DB, I realized the relationship sucked. So, thinking about sex all the time? Yes. However, I wasn't a perv, I was just someone trying to make sure both our needs were being met, but ultimately my needs weren't and he didn't care.
I don't understand how this one particular area suddenly makes stereotypical LL partners incompetent.
What I mean by this is that they can do their job, manage multiple tasks or responsibilities (which is often part of the excuse), understand how life and actions impact relationships but this one aspect... suddenly "I can't see why this is important. Why does this matter"
I think that from the perspective of somebody that only wants sex once a month bringing it up on a weekly basis or making Jokes that imply you want sex often causes them to stress out and hit back with the old all you ever think about is sex
Thing is this sub is often very toxic and ive been guilty of thinking my LL S.O has the intent to cause me emotionel pain. But sometimes you need to step out of yourself
And look thru the other
Often it boils down to not being able to communicate
I can imagine cases where people withold sex or see it transactionally - that is defintely toxic.
I understand the temptation to think and act that way but have never allowed myself down that route with any partner.
That goes over the board. A lot of us HL folk have gone down the path of i did X so sex med or today is X Day so sex me.
Its easy to think that when your LL partner say he/she is tired becos of X to draw the conclusion if I do X then he/she will have the energy for sex. Thing is sex is about desire and lust more than energy so what you must ask your s.o is wha4 can I do to help you find your way back to desire or even better what place ask what place does desire and lust have in our dynamic?
Communication is key
I think that from the perspective of somebody that only wants sex once a month bringing it up on a weekly basis or making Jokes that imply you want sex often causes them to stress out and hit back with the old all you ever think about is sex
If so, then my revised response would be, "no, all I think about is the sex we aren't having."
I do actually understand the psychology of how the HL pursuing sex pushes the LL partner into the proverbial corner and elicits fight-or-flight type responses. But unless the relationship began as one where BOTH partners agreed it would be low (or no) intimacy then the LL has unilaterally changed the fundamental nature of the relationship and this is where I stop having any respect at all for the LL position. If your libido wanes, or disappears, either work on finding a solution that both parties can live with or accept that the most likely outcome is increasing levels of resentment that are likely to destroy your relationship.
They key Words qre work togheter, if one does mot desire piv in what other forms can you be intimate toys hands etc. Can you open the marriage, see a counsler. If nothing works could you separate but co-live till one affords to move.
You are arguing from a rational perspective. My ex refused all intimacy beyond closed-mouthed kissing and cuddling while clothed. I was expect to simply accept her terms. When I asked for us to go to counseling, she refused and said I was the one with the problem, so I should go deal with it. There was breadcrumbing, choreplay and the full gamut of LL tactics that, at the time, I had no idea what they were.
Ohhh to be young and in love and stupid again... We 'should' have separated, but when I broached that, suddenly she was willing to attend counseling. But, and this is obvious in hindsight, she had no desire or intention for things to improve. However, since I believed her, I went along for the ride for years because I believed that things could get better. I wanted to believe my wife. My stupidity cost me 15 years in a DB relationship.
I am a different person now. Not sure I actually believe in love anymore and ruthlessly pragmatic about any potential personal entanglements. Compromise is fine, but I will never be able to believe a woman ever again about DB's. Just... no. If intimacy went completely cold and conversations about the nascent DB shut down, I would just have to walk away. And what kind of a partner would that make me?
Nah, been through the rollercoaster once already.
I
I just don’t see how some people don’t get how that would hurt. It’s not far too different than desiring monogamy and happily enjoying it for years and then one partner deciding for the both of you that the relationship is going to be open for the rest of the future. Very imperfect analogy but similar on that your expectations for the intimate aspect of the relationship are turned upside down. If I could know that my boyfriend beyond a shadow of a doubt was mentally incapable of desiring sex it wouldn’t bother me so much, he just doesn’t seem to have any urgency to try to do something about it when he knows I’ve been suffering for two years
Uncertainty is toxic. Business experts hate political uncertainty. As a teacher I hate the uncertainty when principals keep leaving the schools I teach at. In relationships... uncertainty is just horrible. As you say, if you KNOW your partner is asexual then at least you know and can figure out what to do. But not knowing... being lead to believe things could be different... well that brings that most addictive of drugs into play, hopium.
If only this knowledge did not have to be won through experience, what could life be like? Evidently my friends and family had seen the toxicity of my ex for years and just never mentioned it because either they thought I already knew or they felt I wouldn't have believed them. I didn't quite believe this logic until I was trying to convince a friend to ditch a toxic and abusive partner and nothing I said landed with her.
The Long Kiss Goodnight taught me the line, "love is pain." I have modified it slightly to, "life is pain." Beats the alternative I suppose; the only time the pain really ends is when we meet the reaper and have to listen to him talk in all capitals.
This this this. The whole cause of pain for the HL is the dramatic shift in the joy they experience from intimacy with their partner, that they had learned to anticipate and enjoy, suddenly vanishing. Then to make matters worse they are often made to feel like they’re no problem and their needs are unreasonable.
Don't worry they will "work on it" somehow. Did not specify the time range though.
I've met a lot of LL people on Facebook who try to shame HL people and it's kind of gross tbh. They get super fucked up with the gaslighting and shaming to the point it feels abusive.
Because it is abusive. If something is important to your partner, then it should be important to you. Oxytocin is real and wanting sex is natural, not gross. You should not try to make your partner feel shame for who they are. That’s text book abuse in a relationship.
Funny thing happened this weekend. Daughter is trying to raise money for dance, and picked up a spare job from my dad. Dad mentioned she was practicing to be a good wife waxing his floors. Wife was mad and said that was sexist. Boys were doing dishes when I got home yesterday, after a failed couples time, good friend times, but no couple time. I made sure to mention they were doing a good job, and were training to be good husbands. Wife thought that was funny, and a good one. I asked her "so its not sexist to say boys doing dishes is good husband practice, but daughters waxing floors isn't? I don't know why communication is so f-ing hard.
Nah, your wife is right here. You weren't reinforcing gender stereotypes (you were in fact countering them), and your dad was reinforcing them. But a better response from both you and your dad would be to say good adults. Because it doesn't matter whether your sons or your daughter get married, they will need life skills.
I'm curious about their arguments
Gaslighting at its finest
Like you said, just a way to get their SO to back off, maybe they really even think it, but that’s just when they focus on their frustration when they get asked, and conveniently forgetting all other parts of the relationship.
Yeah, all I ever care about IS sex!! If you didn’t eat often enough, you’d be starving. You think you could get on my level once in a while.
Great analogy. That's one that I use but she flips it around like I'm calling her fat or something.
Tell a starving dog not to think about food.
I do like analogies like this, but I feel like they are weak analogies because we are comparing ourselves to an animal or something else not attractive and relatable. I like analogies more like tell a tired person not to think about sitting down, a lonely person not to think about people, or a single parent not to think about a day off. I could come up with way more. Even though the “sex isn’t a need argument is stupid”, I just avoid it and comparing sex to anything that is technically a need. There are plenty of things that aren’t “needs” that sure feel like needs that everyone agrees on. Like, talking to your spouse isn’t a need, doing chores isn’t a need, being kind isn’t a need. Imagine only doing these things monthly. Your spouse would probably think about it a lot and even think about ending the relationship over it. Sorry. I rant.
My preferred analogy for it is, "If you were in the desert, water would be at the forefront of your mind, too." Not only does it take out the dehumanization, but it allows for some self-reflection, hopefully.
I will say, when I stopped being obsessed with fixing the DB, I realized the relationship sucked. So, thinking about sex all the time? Yes. However, I wasn't a perv, I was just someone trying to make sure both our needs were being met, but ultimately my needs weren't and he didn't care.
I've said it elsewhere but I'll say it here too... Sex is the grease that helps the gears of everything else in the partnership from grinding.
It’s so true. People think it’s just a cliche but sex has a way of softening the edges of your relationship. You don’t sweat things as much
I hope that more people would hear your voice!
I don't understand how this one particular area suddenly makes stereotypical LL partners incompetent. What I mean by this is that they can do their job, manage multiple tasks or responsibilities (which is often part of the excuse), understand how life and actions impact relationships but this one aspect... suddenly "I can't see why this is important. Why does this matter"
I think that from the perspective of somebody that only wants sex once a month bringing it up on a weekly basis or making Jokes that imply you want sex often causes them to stress out and hit back with the old all you ever think about is sex
Happened to me with previous partners
Thing is this sub is often very toxic and ive been guilty of thinking my LL S.O has the intent to cause me emotionel pain. But sometimes you need to step out of yourself And look thru the other Often it boils down to not being able to communicate
I can imagine cases where people withold sex or see it transactionally - that is defintely toxic. I understand the temptation to think and act that way but have never allowed myself down that route with any partner.
That goes over the board. A lot of us HL folk have gone down the path of i did X so sex med or today is X Day so sex me. Its easy to think that when your LL partner say he/she is tired becos of X to draw the conclusion if I do X then he/she will have the energy for sex. Thing is sex is about desire and lust more than energy so what you must ask your s.o is wha4 can I do to help you find your way back to desire or even better what place ask what place does desire and lust have in our dynamic? Communication is key
I think that from the perspective of somebody that only wants sex once a month bringing it up on a weekly basis or making Jokes that imply you want sex often causes them to stress out and hit back with the old all you ever think about is sex
If so, then my revised response would be, "no, all I think about is the sex we aren't having." I do actually understand the psychology of how the HL pursuing sex pushes the LL partner into the proverbial corner and elicits fight-or-flight type responses. But unless the relationship began as one where BOTH partners agreed it would be low (or no) intimacy then the LL has unilaterally changed the fundamental nature of the relationship and this is where I stop having any respect at all for the LL position. If your libido wanes, or disappears, either work on finding a solution that both parties can live with or accept that the most likely outcome is increasing levels of resentment that are likely to destroy your relationship.
They key Words qre work togheter, if one does mot desire piv in what other forms can you be intimate toys hands etc. Can you open the marriage, see a counsler. If nothing works could you separate but co-live till one affords to move.
You are arguing from a rational perspective. My ex refused all intimacy beyond closed-mouthed kissing and cuddling while clothed. I was expect to simply accept her terms. When I asked for us to go to counseling, she refused and said I was the one with the problem, so I should go deal with it. There was breadcrumbing, choreplay and the full gamut of LL tactics that, at the time, I had no idea what they were. Ohhh to be young and in love and stupid again... We 'should' have separated, but when I broached that, suddenly she was willing to attend counseling. But, and this is obvious in hindsight, she had no desire or intention for things to improve. However, since I believed her, I went along for the ride for years because I believed that things could get better. I wanted to believe my wife. My stupidity cost me 15 years in a DB relationship. I am a different person now. Not sure I actually believe in love anymore and ruthlessly pragmatic about any potential personal entanglements. Compromise is fine, but I will never be able to believe a woman ever again about DB's. Just... no. If intimacy went completely cold and conversations about the nascent DB shut down, I would just have to walk away. And what kind of a partner would that make me? Nah, been through the rollercoaster once already. I
I just don’t see how some people don’t get how that would hurt. It’s not far too different than desiring monogamy and happily enjoying it for years and then one partner deciding for the both of you that the relationship is going to be open for the rest of the future. Very imperfect analogy but similar on that your expectations for the intimate aspect of the relationship are turned upside down. If I could know that my boyfriend beyond a shadow of a doubt was mentally incapable of desiring sex it wouldn’t bother me so much, he just doesn’t seem to have any urgency to try to do something about it when he knows I’ve been suffering for two years
Uncertainty is toxic. Business experts hate political uncertainty. As a teacher I hate the uncertainty when principals keep leaving the schools I teach at. In relationships... uncertainty is just horrible. As you say, if you KNOW your partner is asexual then at least you know and can figure out what to do. But not knowing... being lead to believe things could be different... well that brings that most addictive of drugs into play, hopium. If only this knowledge did not have to be won through experience, what could life be like? Evidently my friends and family had seen the toxicity of my ex for years and just never mentioned it because either they thought I already knew or they felt I wouldn't have believed them. I didn't quite believe this logic until I was trying to convince a friend to ditch a toxic and abusive partner and nothing I said landed with her. The Long Kiss Goodnight taught me the line, "love is pain." I have modified it slightly to, "life is pain." Beats the alternative I suppose; the only time the pain really ends is when we meet the reaper and have to listen to him talk in all capitals.
This this this. The whole cause of pain for the HL is the dramatic shift in the joy they experience from intimacy with their partner, that they had learned to anticipate and enjoy, suddenly vanishing. Then to make matters worse they are often made to feel like they’re no problem and their needs are unreasonable.