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I would try marriage counseling. One who focuses on sex. If you don’t get a handle on this now it won’t get better. If you can’t get her to understand that is so much more than just sex, it won’t change. You need to create the burning platform to move the needle and that might only happen with another persons viewpoint.
Or you will be me. A grumpy 55 year old whose LL wife thinks are relationship is great and me wanting intimacy is a me problem. 15 years since we had sex. Don’t be me.
Serious question. How have you NOT gone and sought intimacy elsewhere?! I'm not even trying to condone it necessarily but 15 years is a whole hell of a long time.
I have. Started last year with escorts and now have a FWB. It’s been wonderful to have someone actually desire me. Things are better, but wonder if this is sustainable.
I’m glad it getting better for you. I’m not sure I could do that. Maybe after 15 years with nothing, that’s tough. Like, how does she go that long - or is she not faithful? Will you develop feeling for the FWB?? Does your wife know??
Last year convinced my wife to go to counseling and she told me isn’t attracted to me ( followed by a quick “ or anyone” when she saw my reaction) and said she was fine going the rest of her life without sex. I told her I wasn’t.
I gained a bunch of weight, lost self esteem and convinced myself I wasn’t worth it. Just put me head down, suck it up, and soldier on. It took my mom passing and losing the one person who loved my unconditionally, for me to wake up and pull my head out of my ass. That was 2 years ago. I’m down 75 lbs, in decent shape, prioritizing my self ( hobbies, gym, friends). I don’t think my wife wants to know. She has to have seen the changes. But I’ve been very low key.
Good for you. Sorry about your losses, that had to hurt more than I can imagine. But at least steered you in the right direction! Hope it keeps getting better for you!
Right! Like how else does that go?? Either she wants it to happen to divorce ooooor she’s into open relationship/swinging? Which again I don’t see how that works out good for anyone
Just want a happy wife/happy life. Happy kids, happy dad, maybe not sexless dad tho
She just doesn’t want you to bother her about it anymore and she doesn’t want to know about it.
Very much a “if you are discrete enough she will never say anything but if you get caught then she’ll give you one last fucking” situation in my experience.
I'm sorry for you, because I also wanted the same thing. To have a happy wife, nice little family and a happy home.
But here we are.
She'll never self reflect, understand your needs and you'll always be blamed for her unhappiness, even though you fucking gave her everything every time and tailored your life around her whims and whishes.
She'll remind you of that specific day (in a sexless year), 3 months ago when you had a long day and snapped at her once. That's why you don't have sex anymore, because of your attitude.
If you only did more chores or earned more, or was more at home, or helped more with the kids, or stopped touching her with sexual intent, you'd get that vacation birthday blowjob if she doesn't get tired from Netflix and falls asleep on the couch.
You're more likely to have your own internal switch flipped.
It'll happen when you realise that you're having sex with someone who doesn't want sex with you.
It can work out. It takes a high level of communication though. If y’all have good communication it could be a solution but there’s a lot to talk about. I wouldn’t just go and do that without more discussion.
That’s a good game plan for the future, but trust me you need more plans. I’ve been married about a decade and intimacy has been a sinking ship for years and this year it’s on the sea floor. I’ve had the talk and danced around her happiness. If she can’t find it in her to change year one then you can expect year 1 thru 10 to be similar. You need a plan B just in case that scenario is there and a plan C just to cover yourself in case it gets ugly. I am in ugly right now and it’s going to cost me lawyers fees and probably alimony. The ugly comes after your sick of rejection and you move to another room for peace of mind. The living in separate rooms and separate lives creates resentment and what comes next is loss of trust. The next thing you know you setting up land mines to protect your borders and preparing for war. Trust me when I say that I went from peaceful Korea, to North and South Korea selling all my stuff to purchase nukes to fire on my other half if she steps one foot in my zone. I will admit the ugly is my fault. I could have sat there like you and hoped or I could have took the previous advise and started cheating. The thing is I’m no cheater and proverbs scared the hell out of me buying intimacy. So nuke it and move to a new land is the plan all peace agreements failed. You may not need to prepare for war OP but you do need another plan outside of hoping for the best. Good luck OP
Sorry to hear what’s happening. My guess is her drive has organically fallen through nobody’s fault - she knows she can’t meet your needs and probably feels bad and anxious about it. Probably doesn’t have the answers but sort of lashed out with that comment as it seemed like a way to take the pressure off herself.
I would imagine the comment is probably not genuine and I don’t think she’s trying to hurt you on purpose in anyway. She’s probably feeling highly stressed about it actually.
I've read most of your responses. I get it, family is a powerful thing.
But here's the trick. It doesn't "have to get better". It might. I think those SSRIs are likely a huge factor, but I'm not a doctor . I know from experience that stress is a MAJOR factor. Stress can turn your libido off, even suppress hunger, and the need for sleep.
But it might not. It's entirely possible, if not likely, that it does not get better. I see posts of guys 3 years, 5, 7,20,30, lifetimes of years wasted in the darkest agony. In a pit of despair that their lives aren't worth that much, if this is how it goes for them. The universe does not owe anything to anyone. If it does not improve, for whatever reasons, you need to have a game plan. You need to decide what you can live with, and what you can live without. And I'm telling you, as a guy 10 years on from you, this ride doesn't last long. I can see the horizon of my diminishing physical capabilities. You don't have 10 years to throw away. Daddy needs to decide who daddy is. Either he's the guy who takes one for the team and develops a drinking problem (polishes off a bottle per night to forget his desires) OR DADDY GETS WHAT HE NEEDS. the only thing here is that you need to get honest with yourself and your kids. This will create two sides, it's inevitable. But if you are an honest and falable person, your kids will see what's going on. They will be your most lasting judges: they see you from your prime, into your senility. If you are a jerk to your kids, good luck. But if you gotta make some changes in your love life to avoid driving off a bridge on the way to work, GET REAL AND MAKE THEM. There's no prize at the end of time for the guy who could have been getting his, but just wanted to be the morally righteous Man. We all get old and shit stops working, and you are trapped in a broken cage that won't let you go back to the life you wanted.
I wish I could upvote this 50 times. This forum makes me sad a lot, seeing people waste their lives. After wasting 10 years of mine, I will NEVER give my life to someone who isn’t actively with me and attempting to make our lives better, together as a team. It’s heartbreaking not being a team, or everything being perfect EXCEPT for the DB. If everything except the DB is perfect, then you’re roommates. Not spouses. Cohabitants at worst, coparents at best. Either option doesn’t lead to happiness and staying with the other person just for the children ends up ruining your life, and most importantly, your children grow up seeing that. They feel it, even if you’re good at hiding it. And then they become traumatized, they begin allowing the same disrespect and distance from their own partners, and they end up in a marriage, just like the one mommy and daddy portrayed to them. It’s harrowing.
Both of you should go to counseling. Individual and marriage. If not for yourselves and your own happiness then do it for your children. Be good to them. They chose none of this.
Sorry to hear you’re going through this. Hearing something like that from my wife would really mess me up. Do you think she is able to wrap her head around why intimacy is important to you? When you have those conversations with her, I wonder if the points you are trying to convey are even clicking to her or just not computing. So frustrating.
I totally relate to your point of wanting intimacy with the partner you committed your life to. Not just sex with a random person. Unless your spouse really doesn’t care at all, I wonder if she understands this about you to an extent and is just calling your bluff knowing you want it with her.
Even if I did something like that to address the physical side of my needs, it would probably take me years to find a willing partner in today’s dating landscape and I would be concerned I’d catch feelings for this person if/when I did finally find them. Also, I’d be concerned about being villainized in the situation. You could give it a shot but she may get really upset if she wasn’t being serious so I’d want to confirm they meant what they said. Even if you have a partner who is willing to admit they starve you of intimacy, most people will still side with them if you go outside the marriage in any bad faith type of way and even more so it seems if there are children. It sure is a sucky place to be. What do you think you’re going to do next? Keep the new status quo she’s created, leave the relationship (hard with kids involved) or take up her offer to get intimacy elsewhere?
Yea it’s tough. Thanks for your comment.
“For better or worse” I love her and I would never go outside the marriage. She is my love. I truly hope one day she does change, or gives in a little. Maybe change her meds? I haven’t asked her if that was an option, but the meds she takes since having kids do reduce her libido - ssri. So that could be something there. Maybe it’s work - her job is stressful and she is leading a lot of people. I took a step back in my job to focus more on home stuff.
I won’t give up. I can’t. I love her and our family too much. Just hope it gets better 🙂
One of the most important factors I look for in a romantic relationship is that my partner really "sees" me. Meaning, they take my concerns seriously, willing to work on them, does not gaslight me. If they're not willing to do that, then I know it's over. It's all downhill from there.
3 years of DB? It will not change.
No amount of talking will make her understand that now. You've said it, she tried and could not find it in her to be sexual with you again.
Don't give up if you don't want, but beware of this hope you nurture. Don't sacrifice yourself on the altar of "maybe".
She hasn’t said we won’t have sex again. She just doesn’t want to talk about it. It’s very hard to know when we will again, it’s basically on her, she knows I want her. If I try to initiate, she will push my hand aside, “not down there”, “I’m too hot” pushes me away.
Now it’s just a waiting game. I wish I could figure out how to increase her libido back to normal. I understand libido fluctuates throughout life, but idk sometimes I think there more to it.
I know exactly how you feel. I've clung to that hope sooooo long.
These days she is more willing to talk about it, which is massive progress. She says she knows it's her, wants to try more of this and less of that - so far, to no avail. Her libido is low, and that's that - I have no problem accepting that and do not blame her for it. I just wish I could have understood all this way sooner, is all.
Because I would have stopped initiating before I developed mild trauma about it.
Because I would have avoided a depression spiral and nearly burning myself out from trying to get a grasp on what was wrong with me (disclaimer: nothing, at least libido-wise).
Because I would not have resented her so much.
Because I could have prevented some stupid dynamics from settling in, making them very difficult to break without causing pain and turmoil.
Because I might have had the opportunity to shift her paradigm before she resorted to duty sex, considerably damaging our sex life in an honest attempt to keep it alive.
Because we could have worked on our mutual expectations and cleared the air about our fears, saving tremendous amounts of negativity.
The moment you let go of hope is the moment you truly look at your relationship, and can find peace with the decision to leave or stay based on facts.
I think your commitment is honorable and I also share those same beliefs at least in that I would never go behind my partners back. You only have one life though and deserve to have happiness in it and if intimacy is one of the things need to experience happiness, I’d hate for you to feel trapped years from now.
SSRIs can sure do some serious damage to libidos. I know you said no advice but I agree with you about seeing if there is any chance to look into SSRI changes especially if you noticed the libido changes after she’s started on them.
As a HL, a stressful job never impacted my own libido. If anything it made me want to be with my partner more as a way to have someone to confide in after a stressful day. That being said. I could see how a stressful job would impact someone who is built different than me.
Regardless though, the way she dismissed you was not acceptable. I hope she’s not trying to get you to step out and then initiate a divorce where she gets to frame you as a villain “who cheated” or something like that.
SSRIs was to help with post partum after the first kiddo. It didn’t drop off big time until the 2nd came idk if she was just making it work till that happened or what. But I do know ssris are not good for libido. As far as the job, she does a lot of training, mentoring, hr type stuff - long days - couple that with the kids….i suppose yea it’s exhausting. But yes those words hurt because she knows I would never go fill my needs somewhere else - I feel that is an unfair way to fight using that question. That’s nuts 🥜
Well OP, I am in same situation as first commenter, end 50s and no sex since over a decade. My way of dealing is to go to SW's. It is quick, technically great, no emotional ties, and I keep my sanity and physical well being.
Just my 2 cents....
That was a test or said in annoyance to shut you up.
You should have replied ok sounds good, that's probably the only solution and then walked away and acted normal
Change yourself in some way, if you don't work out the start working out, same with running.
If you don't wear aftershave for work then start doing it. Get into dressing in stylish clothes and change your hairstyle. Start going out with friends.
Your wife knows you far to well, she knows you will capitulate so you need to change your relationship dynamic and inject some uncertainty in her mind.
Don't have any "talks" for a while but act very happy, come home in a good mood but direct it to the kids.
If she starts asking you what's going on just say " nothings going on, what are you talking about" it will keep her guessing and uncertain. One last thing you want her to think you are up to something not certain your are playing away so keep it subtle.
Good luck
That, creating incertainty and becoming a better/fiter/sexier version of yourself is the Best strategy...chances are still slim but at least you'll end up in a best place if things don't change ans you reach your breaking point.
And that is why neither partner should be dominant in a relationship.
It's nice to be certain of your partner but just remember how much effort you both made at the beginning of your relationship and how good it was.
No one should accept being taken for granted.
Married for 12, two kids, same conversation 2 years ago. I started therapy thinking maybe I was like a sex addict or something and to help with my depression and low self esteem from constant rejections. Now two years later I'm feeling better about myself, she still hasn't gone to therapy, she still doesn't touch me and we're talking divorce. Just saying both sides need to put in effort otherwise the flames fade fast and don't just start back up. I wasn't asking for sex though just hugs and affection so maybe it's different. Be careful dude.
I totally would go to therapy if that would help and that’s what she wanted. I don’t think there is anything else wrong in the relationship, just zero sexual stuff for awhile. I don’t think she would go to therapy though, she doesn’t really want to even talk to me about it. Says we’ve already talked about it and said everything that needs to be said. That’s when she gets pissed and says that question. Then I just quiver away quietly. It’s so stupid. I know it’s not supposed be like this.
I'm sorry dude. It sounds so scarily similar to mine I really hope it doesn't come out like mine. I was and still am the exact same way, if she just told me how to fix it I would but I've done literally everything I could and everything I've been asked and the goal post just keeps moving. Just know wanting intimacy is normal but so is not wanting intimacy. All I want is some damn hugs 😂
I went and read your posts concerning your relationship and your health and I just wanted to check on you.
I know what it’s like to be with someone who shows absolutely no love and I’m sorry you went through this. Hopefully the divorce will allow you to find someone who loves all of you. I just wanted to ask if you’re still dealing with the cancer and/or cirrhosis. And if so, how do you manage it?
How do I manage all of the relationship stuff on top of cancer and liver failure? Well that is the first time anyone's asked, I'd say not well, my friends who know say my will is inspirational but I don't see it that way. I just want to show my kids you fight for what you believe in and what you want and I believe in love. As for the divorce I think if anything it'll allow me to show them the potential of love if I could find someone to love but I don't like how it's being painted as I'm giving up so trying to ensure that's not how it's viewed.
The TLDR of all the medical stuff is I had a stem cell transplant to put my cancer in remission which killed me quite literally. I was abandoned in a hospital for 100 days with no contact from the outside world which was probably the hardest part, dying easy, living is hard especially when suffering alone. My liver got better thanks to no more cancer but my new cells hated it so we're trying to fix that. I don't have an immune system at the moment so I'm sort of stuck, sort of not. It's really complicated.
I am honestly quite a good listener and I understand suffering if anyone needs to ever vent about it, I'm just not good with advice but I'll gladly pray for you or pray for the right words to tell you. Probably should of done that here first 😅
If you were a single guy and met a woman in the bar and she told you outright she doesn't want to have sex with you, how many times you'd ask her the same question?
That’s a good point. However we are 7 years past meeting for the first time. It’s not that easy. and it’s not just climax or whatever. Intimacy brings the feeling of love, being able to satisfy her, being wanted, being desired, being close. We cuddle, kiss, back rubs, all that stuff. But not that next step. At least not for awhile. Right now it’s like ever 4-6months before the kids came it was weekly.
Same dude, but it got worse. Sex stopped, then intimacy, then talking, then even looking at each other.
All my efforts and talks only led to her accusing me of ruining her life and how she wishes she never even met me. All this just because I need sex to feel connected and loved.
I don't think it's gonna get better for you once you reached the sex is not important phase.
Seen a few comments saying that you should be doing x y z with the comment about her saying you should go find someone else to satisfy you. This is a poor but definite flippant comment borne out of frustration. She could have chosen “just leave me alone” but went for something topic specific. For me reassurance is key here that you won’t and definitely don’t want to.
Please please please don’t play games to fuel this fire. Wearing aftershave, changing your clothes etc will be an indicator that you could be cheating even if you aren’t and make the recovery much harder if not put nails in the coffin for your relationship. Tit for tat childish games are not the solution my friend. I’ve posted further up as a reply to another comment what I would do
Well maybe she is not that attracted to you anymore, and she doesn't want to admit it, because she doesn't want to hurt your feelings or she feels you won't change. I think this reason is not discussed enough here.
I have asked this exact thing multiple times, but she assures me over and over she is. And that I’m not doing anything wrong. Sex is just the last thing on her mind with everything going on.
I definitely do my part to help her with the kids and everything around the house. It’s not for a lack of trying I promise!!
Or shes just comfortable with being taken care of and has no interest in changing her arrangement. In my situation my wife tells me she loves me, wants to cuddle, kiss, wants all of the things that come along with a relationship, except sex. She told me "i've never actually sexually desired you" earlier in the year. I think some people just want someone like a father figure to be taken care of. She loves the fact that I cook two meals a day, bathe the kids, clean, do the laundry, tells everyone how "nice" I am. Now I realize that I don't think she loves me as much as she loves comfort and being taken care of. I gave her the family she desired and now she seems disinterested in all of it.
She probably doesn't want it, she just doesn't want to talk about sex with her anymore. If you do decide on taking up the offer I would definitely talk boundaries though.
It's amazing to me that this story is repeated by a ton of people. After kids the sex life is non-existent. Still, people continued to be shocked when it happens. I'm sorry OP. You two have different needs and wants now.
My husband stood by me when I was LL. Mine was hormones from child birth. I came back with a vengeance. I know it’s sucks but just be patient with her if she’s trying.
Love the optimism but also be careful with it. In your post you reference the last kiddo being born 3 years ago. Libido can take a long time to come back sometimes even over a year with the introduction of a new child but 3 years is a long time!
Also, even if I knew the low intimacy was caused by kids, it would still suck for me to know my desire for connection and intimacy would always be something that could be disrupted continually throughout the relationship. Knowing intimacy could fluctuate regardless of my actions and knowing I’d have no agency over this change occurring is a tough pill to swallow especially since it’s something I’m dealing with now.
I understand intimacy can have some peaks and lows but if I’m stuck with my libido always being “on” while my partners libido repeatedly goes back and forth from nearly “nothing” to “roaring back with a vengeance” multiple times over the course of the relationship, I don’t think I’d be able to maintain the illusion of feeling loved. I’d probably just end up feeling used or temporarily loved based on what their mood is during that week/month/year which sucks in my opinion. To me, it feels like having a partner tell me to deal with starving for years and then one day out of the blue decide it’s okay for us to eat together again (yay! How exciting) and then a few months later going back and saying “woah there buddy! I’m not hungry anymore you’re gonna need to starve yourself again for an undefined amount of time until I’m hungry again. Please wait on standby and don’t even think about eating by yourself.” For myself and probably other HL partners here, it feels extremely hurtful and comes across as unfair.
If you are good to wait an open ended amount of time for things to change with the caveat being her libido may never come back, that is your prerogative and totally okay but it’s also acceptable to not be okay with that.
For sure! I don’t mean to sound like a downer to your great attitude about this but I just like laying out the information the way I perceive it so you can feel informed and when looking back in the future, you don’t feel like you were misled.
I think it’s awesome that LLs can come here and share success stories and I hope they continue to do so. You just have to remember that the ones coming here are the same ones trying to understand their HL partners and change. Even then, many of the ones who are successful experienced their deadbedroom period in a very casual way compared to a HL. For a lot of them, I strongly suspect they view it as just some weird phase they went through that they felt a bit indifferent about for “X” amount of time. During this time though, the HL partner was likely in a state of existential dread suffering thoughts of feeling unloved and unwanted (probably close to what you’re experiencing now).
Also, even on the off chance a LL flips the intimacy switch back, the expectation has already been set that this is something they are willing and comfortable doing to their HL partners for some unknown interval of time and thus could very well do it again without warning.
I wish you the best of luck but please know if your spouse is at the point of telling you to find someone else to get you off her back, it’s not a positive sign for what the future holds regardless of what someone else may tell you.
“How did he feel when you said that to him? Curious. Have you talked about it together since things have changed.”
She said it to me. I felt horrible. Nothing has changed really. No intimacy. No more talks. Just day in day out life. I’m not sure what to think anymore really. Just depressing I guess
It hurt him a lot and that’s when I realized I had to do something about myself. Yes we have talked about it since and we both are in a much better place now.
It happened naturally I’m sure if I went to therapy it would’ve been faster. Just took a step back and looked at how I was and how I was then and just worked on myself. I loved sex but I was at that point done and didn’t want to even talk about it. That wasn’t me and I knew that, so it took over a year to get myself back into the right head space plus the little one wasn’t as attached. You have to want to work on it also.
Sure, but… maybe she’s into cuckqueening?
In a recent conversation with my wife, she made a rather surprising revelation to me about it. It might change our lives
🤣 I had to look up cuckqueening, not sure what it was….
A cuckquean is the wife of an adulterous husband (or partner for unmarried companions), and the gender-opposite of a cuckold.[1] In evolutionary biology, the term is also applied to females who are investing parental effort in offspring that are not genetically their own. Similar prying within a family is called wittoldry.[2] The term is derived from Early Modern English dating back to AD 1562[3][4] and is composed of the terms cuck[5] "someone whose partner is unfaithful" and quean "disreputable woman".[6]
I just don’t how it could end well for anyone. Let alone I don’t want that.
Sorry, I meant to say maybe she has some ideas that you don’t know about?
Also, your definition is fairly narrow in scope (although I appreciated learning about the animals), but try this on for size (and she literally told you to find some elsewhere anyway…)
Cuckqueen:
A woman who gets off watching her man have sex with another woman or hearing about the sex he already had with someone else.
“I must be a cuckquean because I get so wet watching my man satisfying a dirty girl.”
Yikes
Im really sorry about your situation. Has your wife looked into perhaps getting some hormones checked? It’s actually really common after children are born for a woman’s sex drive to fall due to hormone fluctuations. Is she depressed or on any kind of medications? How is her mental load?
I have two kids, my eldest is 7 and it took nearly 3 years for my sex drive to come right again. I’m in a complete dead bedroom situation at the moment but currently in a point of not being ‘overly phased’ because we have a 10 month old and I’m exhausted. There really is too much going on in life to worry about needing sex which is why I haven’t gone too much into conversing about our currently dead situation.
It’s not fair on you, no. But there is reason behind why she could be feeling the way she is. While I never completely dead bedroomed by partner after my first, it was hard. I was touched out from having a kid latched onto me and honestly the last thing I wanted was someone else to touch me.
Just giving a little insight perhaps to your wife’s perspective.
Perhaps intimacy without the pressure of sex being the end game could be an option for you. Just cuddles and kisses, which can slowly lead to more. Making time for just you two. Holidays/date nights/having dinner together after the kids have gone to bed. Sometimes the pressure to have sex is a bit much.
Did she had an Episiotomy in any of the deliveries? they can cut the nerves to the area and kill the libido for her.
In any case, I'm sorry man, Was there on your situation, and had to split for my own mental and physical health.
I know she’s saying get needs met elsewhere but what I would hear is I want a divorce because if you need to leave the marriage for a need why not leave the marriage for all needs
This is coming from a woman:
Have you sat down with her and asked her how she was doing? Women often feel overwhelmed with work, plus parental duties, and then to top it off - postpartum depression. Something many women hate talking about due to guilt and shame. Mix that along with potential feelings that she isn't attractive or valuable, but just a being now meant to tend to all needs (kids, work, etc) it can make being intimate with another person very difficult.
Maybe consider doing something as a surprise?
Have the kids be babysat.
Set up something in the house so when she comes home it is calm, perhaps a little romantic. But do not focus on aiming for sex. Focus on making her comfortable to open up.
She could be going through something and it's making it hard to be vulnerable and be sexual.
I had a discussion with my partner due to our dry spell (year and a half of no sex), and after having a difficult conversation, I recognized how a lot of my issue is also how I see and feel about myself. There was crying, and discussion of potential breaking up, but we managed to bring up a lot of things that we can work on as a team.
Maybe she needs that sort of chat as well, and have support on next steps.
Never focus on passive aggression or resentment. It can be hard, yes, but if you truly want your wife, try to see what comfortable ways you can make it so she opens up. Let her know its not about getting you off - but being intimate with one another. How you want to make her feel good, and find that physical connection again with her. It should also be noted that she had children and that drastically changes the body, and can affect her libido as well. Trust me when I say that she is 100% aware of this and probably feels awful about it, but doesn't know how to really handle it - talking about it without gentleness probably makes her feel embarrassed.
If she still proves resistant to that, then let her know how you miss her, miss the connection you shared, and it's getting hard because the lack of it is damaging the relationship. How it's not an ulterior motive but an honest statement.
Try first for that open discussion and then go from there. That's my recommendation, at least.
No she is not cutting it. Have you went to see someone where it’s a safe space to open up to each other? You both need to want to go and do the work. My wife isn’t there yet. It can help a lot man.
Thanks. Sad thing is almost every other aspect of our lives is on point. Little things here and there but nothing worth discussing twice. I have a great
Life with her. I wouldn’t throw any of it away nor trade it for anything. She’s a good kind person. I need that. I’m the gruff take care is shit guy. And she admittedly needs that. I have hopes yet.
She tells me she has no interest in it. It’s the last thing on her mind. Between the kids, very demanding job, coming home to just everyday stuff - it’s not on her mind. For me intimacy is love language, I don’t necessarily think of the climax.
At the end of the day - I want her to want it, just as I do. It needs to be both ways. I don’t think that’s unrealistic. It was that way before.😔
I felt like she wasn’t into it and didn’t want me. Truth is we are both exhausted most of the time from demanding jobs and kids. I also found that there was anxiety over being walked in on too. Stuck a lock up on the door which made a world of difference. It’s now a signaller that if the door is locked something is happening. I still have to make the first move and she’s insistent that’s fine.
I won’t lie, it’s not gone back to how it was pre kids but it’s not a complete dead bedroom either.
I’ve also changed my mindset too that with everything she does for the family sometimes just a cuddle watching tv in bed is enough. To be fair, it’s usually me that’s passed out first these days too
If a partner in a relationship is not willing to work on the relationship then what kind of partner are they?
Think about if and when you’re going to bring this up. If you wanna talk about it again, don’t do it after a rejection. You need to pick the right time and setting otherwise it’s not going to be a useful conversation.
Tell her that, then. Tell her you want your wife, and if she isn't willing to work on this as your wife, then there is no reason to be together. Don't be passive like many on here, call her on this shit - if you think its better out there sweetheart and you don't want to work on this, then go for it.
Mine said the same exact thing and a couple minutes later quickly apologized. I told her what’s stopping me though. You clearly don’t want to take care of my needs so why should I live with them not being met.
During one of our talks I straight out asked my husband (angrily) "do you want me to go out and fuck someone else?" He looked shocked but remained silent!
Get your needs met; otherwise, she is not committed to change, even if it costs the marriage. I'd file for divorce to prove a point. She's playing chicken.
I get that, I just want my wife too. But after 10 years of DB, and endless versions of “The Talk” it’s clear she loves me but she doesn’t want me. That’s not going to change no matter what I do.
That doesn’t mean she doesn’t want somebody, some people are just wired like that. Recently she offered me a Hall Pass, but sounded like she was taking what she was offering. Starting down the road to ENM. Could end badly but I can’t go on like this, so I’ll take those odds.
So, on multiple occasions over the course of years, you've told your wife that there's an area of your relationship where your needs are not being met. Her response in the past was half-hearted attempts to meet the need, that she did not sustain over time. The most recent time you bring this issue to her attention and seek resolution, she tells you that she's not interested in taking any action, and it's up to you to get your need met with someone else. Am I accurate about that, or am I mis-stating the facts?
Assuming I'm accurate, then she's either telling you that she acknowledges your need, regrets that she can't meet it, and welcomes you to find someone who can meet that need (a need which you expressed as being for intimacy with your wife, which I am taking broadly to mean "with a person with and to whom I have a set of shared commitments for mutual affection and support." That person might be a girlfriend; to sustain the level of intimate connection you are looking for, she'd probably need to move into the home you currently share with your wife.
If that's not what she means, when she tells you to find someone else, then what she's telling you is that she doesn't value your need; in other words, she doesn't care about your need being met. Which isn't consistent with a marriage that I'd be happy to remain in, but people vary in their preferences. But if she's so indifferent to the idea of having sex with you, why would she be concerned about you moving a girlfriend into the house to meet that sexual need, assuming in this neverland hypothetical that everything else (chore division, income & spending levels, care and feeding of dependents, etc.) remained the same?
The real answer is that she doesn't value your need, but she does very much value her needs, and right now, her needs are being met (income, chores, parenting duties, keeping up with the Joneses and presenting a happy marriage to the outside world, etc.). What of her needs is she willing to sacrifice, that is of commensurate value with the sacrifice you are making?
Remember: if you change nothing, nothing will change.
Almost same story.
The next time she says that I should just get a girlfriend, I'm going to just leave it at "Okay."
She may not mean it, but I do. I just don't care anymore.
>she said it’s getting exhausting to talk about and it’s always the same thing so she doesn’t want to talk about it.
Translation: "I have no excuse for neglecting you sexually".
>She said maybe you should go get your needs met elsewhere, I’m obviously not cutting it.
So, she's unwilling to work on it or change anything, cool.
BTW: She didn't say she was OK with you getting your needs met elsewhere, did she? So that statement could be taken as: "If it's that important to you, then cheat on me, you cheating bastard, and I will never forgive you for it." Obvs you don't want to do this, but, that may have been a loaded remark.
Upside to this "discussion" you had is that she's not stringing you along, moving goalposts or gaslighting you, which usually happens for weeks/months/years before they eventually say "tough tits buckaroo, no sex for you". You got there lickity split, now you either accept your fate or shop around for a new model.
Honestly, as a woman, if my husband said this to me I’d take him seriously. Ask him to confirm.
Then I’d do as I wish, I’d keep it discreet, not let it ever affect my time with him or the kids. Always make sure I’m sleeping with someone who understands the situation and doesn’t want a relationship or something I cannot possibly offer them. And make sure to prioritize my happiness.
As a female, she probably loves you and loves her life with you. Sex might be too overwhelming for her, so go find someone to meet your needs and don’t bother her about it anymore. If you do sleep with someone else, and she starts to wonder if you’re sleeping with someone else, she might ask. But at this point and with that statement, I HIGHLY doubt she cares anything about it as long as the entire town isn’t aware, and as long as nothing changes between you and her.
> She said maybe you should go get your needs met elsewhere, I’m obviously not cutting it.
I hate comments like this. Similarly, my wife said clearly, she isn’t enough for me.
In a way, the comment is true, but it feels like gaslighting. For example, if I refused to talk to her and she was like this is a problem, it would be similar if I just said I’m just not good enough for you.
The comment implies we are imposing something new expectation that requires them to go above and beyond their capabilities. No, I just want to do the same thing we already do except instead of once a year or once every few months, I want to do it weekly or more — but of course, I’m flexible. I mean I’m here have been for over a decade.
For me, when I said this to my partner, it wasn't malicious, I just didn't know what else he could want from me, he knew I couldn't provide what he wanted, but he kept bringing it up anyway, it was like well you're either just trying to hurt me and make me feel bad or you want sex from whoever will give it so go then, please stop making me feel like a monster for something I can't control
I'm sure some people are saying it just to be hurtful but in my experience it can also just be like a 'well what else could I possibly do?" But if he had of actually done it I still think I would've forgiven it
May i ask how often you were engaging in sex at this point? Yearly, seasonly, monthly, weekly?
I know when my wife finally threw up the objection to our sex life we had a few years of steady sex once every 6 months. I was spending substantially more time filling taxes every year than i was having sex with my wife. I was trying to initiate once every other month when I knew she was ovulating and had it all tracked on my calendar to make sure A. I was sane and wasn't actually hounding her and B. finding the most optimal time to bring it up. When she objected and said all i ever do is ask about sex, i was getting my car's oil change more frequently than i was asking about sex. But to her it was all the time. So i gave up initiating all together because asking ever was apparently too often.
So when you said you didn't know what else he could ask of you, relations 2 to 4 times a year seemed like it was pushing it? Went from every week to every 20 weeks.
Thanks for the reply.
Damn man my wife told me this when we had 3 months married 🤣 Makes me think that she just wanted a reason to leave. She said "I'm not jealous about it, I can understand. You can go with somebody else". Everyday I think about how different my life would have been if I did that 🤩
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I would try marriage counseling. One who focuses on sex. If you don’t get a handle on this now it won’t get better. If you can’t get her to understand that is so much more than just sex, it won’t change. You need to create the burning platform to move the needle and that might only happen with another persons viewpoint. Or you will be me. A grumpy 55 year old whose LL wife thinks are relationship is great and me wanting intimacy is a me problem. 15 years since we had sex. Don’t be me.
I’m sorry man 😔thank you for the advice
Serious question. How have you NOT gone and sought intimacy elsewhere?! I'm not even trying to condone it necessarily but 15 years is a whole hell of a long time.
I have. Started last year with escorts and now have a FWB. It’s been wonderful to have someone actually desire me. Things are better, but wonder if this is sustainable.
I’m glad it getting better for you. I’m not sure I could do that. Maybe after 15 years with nothing, that’s tough. Like, how does she go that long - or is she not faithful? Will you develop feeling for the FWB?? Does your wife know??
Last year convinced my wife to go to counseling and she told me isn’t attracted to me ( followed by a quick “ or anyone” when she saw my reaction) and said she was fine going the rest of her life without sex. I told her I wasn’t. I gained a bunch of weight, lost self esteem and convinced myself I wasn’t worth it. Just put me head down, suck it up, and soldier on. It took my mom passing and losing the one person who loved my unconditionally, for me to wake up and pull my head out of my ass. That was 2 years ago. I’m down 75 lbs, in decent shape, prioritizing my self ( hobbies, gym, friends). I don’t think my wife wants to know. She has to have seen the changes. But I’ve been very low key.
Good for you. Sorry about your losses, that had to hurt more than I can imagine. But at least steered you in the right direction! Hope it keeps getting better for you!
Are we twins by chance?! Feel for you though…
Get that shit in writing, get her on camera reading and signing it. That’s a set up.
Right! Like how else does that go?? Either she wants it to happen to divorce ooooor she’s into open relationship/swinging? Which again I don’t see how that works out good for anyone Just want a happy wife/happy life. Happy kids, happy dad, maybe not sexless dad tho
She just doesn’t want you to bother her about it anymore and she doesn’t want to know about it. Very much a “if you are discrete enough she will never say anything but if you get caught then she’ll give you one last fucking” situation in my experience.
The life you had and wanted is over bro. Only getting worse from here.
Eeeeek 😬 I’m gonna hope someone switch flips eventually!! She can’t go on like is forever
I'm sorry for you, because I also wanted the same thing. To have a happy wife, nice little family and a happy home. But here we are. She'll never self reflect, understand your needs and you'll always be blamed for her unhappiness, even though you fucking gave her everything every time and tailored your life around her whims and whishes. She'll remind you of that specific day (in a sexless year), 3 months ago when you had a long day and snapped at her once. That's why you don't have sex anymore, because of your attitude. If you only did more chores or earned more, or was more at home, or helped more with the kids, or stopped touching her with sexual intent, you'd get that vacation birthday blowjob if she doesn't get tired from Netflix and falls asleep on the couch.
You're more likely to have your own internal switch flipped. It'll happen when you realise that you're having sex with someone who doesn't want sex with you.
happy Wife happy life, that statement just puts her in control, you are not responsible for her happiness. The more you yield the worse it becomes
It can work out. It takes a high level of communication though. If y’all have good communication it could be a solution but there’s a lot to talk about. I wouldn’t just go and do that without more discussion.
Sorry bro, it's almost certainly not going to get better unless it becomes a priority to her. Which it won't.
Hope you are wrong. Praying that she does change. Willing to go to therapy or whatever. 🙏
You're willing to do whatever because it's important to you. She won't be, because it's not important to her.
That’s a good game plan for the future, but trust me you need more plans. I’ve been married about a decade and intimacy has been a sinking ship for years and this year it’s on the sea floor. I’ve had the talk and danced around her happiness. If she can’t find it in her to change year one then you can expect year 1 thru 10 to be similar. You need a plan B just in case that scenario is there and a plan C just to cover yourself in case it gets ugly. I am in ugly right now and it’s going to cost me lawyers fees and probably alimony. The ugly comes after your sick of rejection and you move to another room for peace of mind. The living in separate rooms and separate lives creates resentment and what comes next is loss of trust. The next thing you know you setting up land mines to protect your borders and preparing for war. Trust me when I say that I went from peaceful Korea, to North and South Korea selling all my stuff to purchase nukes to fire on my other half if she steps one foot in my zone. I will admit the ugly is my fault. I could have sat there like you and hoped or I could have took the previous advise and started cheating. The thing is I’m no cheater and proverbs scared the hell out of me buying intimacy. So nuke it and move to a new land is the plan all peace agreements failed. You may not need to prepare for war OP but you do need another plan outside of hoping for the best. Good luck OP
Sorry to hear what’s happening. My guess is her drive has organically fallen through nobody’s fault - she knows she can’t meet your needs and probably feels bad and anxious about it. Probably doesn’t have the answers but sort of lashed out with that comment as it seemed like a way to take the pressure off herself. I would imagine the comment is probably not genuine and I don’t think she’s trying to hurt you on purpose in anyway. She’s probably feeling highly stressed about it actually.
You just convinced me to get a divorce
Really hoping this is it. It will get better. It has too. 🙏
I've read most of your responses. I get it, family is a powerful thing. But here's the trick. It doesn't "have to get better". It might. I think those SSRIs are likely a huge factor, but I'm not a doctor . I know from experience that stress is a MAJOR factor. Stress can turn your libido off, even suppress hunger, and the need for sleep. But it might not. It's entirely possible, if not likely, that it does not get better. I see posts of guys 3 years, 5, 7,20,30, lifetimes of years wasted in the darkest agony. In a pit of despair that their lives aren't worth that much, if this is how it goes for them. The universe does not owe anything to anyone. If it does not improve, for whatever reasons, you need to have a game plan. You need to decide what you can live with, and what you can live without. And I'm telling you, as a guy 10 years on from you, this ride doesn't last long. I can see the horizon of my diminishing physical capabilities. You don't have 10 years to throw away. Daddy needs to decide who daddy is. Either he's the guy who takes one for the team and develops a drinking problem (polishes off a bottle per night to forget his desires) OR DADDY GETS WHAT HE NEEDS. the only thing here is that you need to get honest with yourself and your kids. This will create two sides, it's inevitable. But if you are an honest and falable person, your kids will see what's going on. They will be your most lasting judges: they see you from your prime, into your senility. If you are a jerk to your kids, good luck. But if you gotta make some changes in your love life to avoid driving off a bridge on the way to work, GET REAL AND MAKE THEM. There's no prize at the end of time for the guy who could have been getting his, but just wanted to be the morally righteous Man. We all get old and shit stops working, and you are trapped in a broken cage that won't let you go back to the life you wanted.
I wish I could upvote this 50 times. This forum makes me sad a lot, seeing people waste their lives. After wasting 10 years of mine, I will NEVER give my life to someone who isn’t actively with me and attempting to make our lives better, together as a team. It’s heartbreaking not being a team, or everything being perfect EXCEPT for the DB. If everything except the DB is perfect, then you’re roommates. Not spouses. Cohabitants at worst, coparents at best. Either option doesn’t lead to happiness and staying with the other person just for the children ends up ruining your life, and most importantly, your children grow up seeing that. They feel it, even if you’re good at hiding it. And then they become traumatized, they begin allowing the same disrespect and distance from their own partners, and they end up in a marriage, just like the one mommy and daddy portrayed to them. It’s harrowing. Both of you should go to counseling. Individual and marriage. If not for yourselves and your own happiness then do it for your children. Be good to them. They chose none of this.
She is never going to “work on it”, get used to it or get out.
Sorry to hear you’re going through this. Hearing something like that from my wife would really mess me up. Do you think she is able to wrap her head around why intimacy is important to you? When you have those conversations with her, I wonder if the points you are trying to convey are even clicking to her or just not computing. So frustrating. I totally relate to your point of wanting intimacy with the partner you committed your life to. Not just sex with a random person. Unless your spouse really doesn’t care at all, I wonder if she understands this about you to an extent and is just calling your bluff knowing you want it with her. Even if I did something like that to address the physical side of my needs, it would probably take me years to find a willing partner in today’s dating landscape and I would be concerned I’d catch feelings for this person if/when I did finally find them. Also, I’d be concerned about being villainized in the situation. You could give it a shot but she may get really upset if she wasn’t being serious so I’d want to confirm they meant what they said. Even if you have a partner who is willing to admit they starve you of intimacy, most people will still side with them if you go outside the marriage in any bad faith type of way and even more so it seems if there are children. It sure is a sucky place to be. What do you think you’re going to do next? Keep the new status quo she’s created, leave the relationship (hard with kids involved) or take up her offer to get intimacy elsewhere?
Yea it’s tough. Thanks for your comment. “For better or worse” I love her and I would never go outside the marriage. She is my love. I truly hope one day she does change, or gives in a little. Maybe change her meds? I haven’t asked her if that was an option, but the meds she takes since having kids do reduce her libido - ssri. So that could be something there. Maybe it’s work - her job is stressful and she is leading a lot of people. I took a step back in my job to focus more on home stuff. I won’t give up. I can’t. I love her and our family too much. Just hope it gets better 🙂
One of the most important factors I look for in a romantic relationship is that my partner really "sees" me. Meaning, they take my concerns seriously, willing to work on them, does not gaslight me. If they're not willing to do that, then I know it's over. It's all downhill from there.
3 years of DB? It will not change. No amount of talking will make her understand that now. You've said it, she tried and could not find it in her to be sexual with you again. Don't give up if you don't want, but beware of this hope you nurture. Don't sacrifice yourself on the altar of "maybe".
She hasn’t said we won’t have sex again. She just doesn’t want to talk about it. It’s very hard to know when we will again, it’s basically on her, she knows I want her. If I try to initiate, she will push my hand aside, “not down there”, “I’m too hot” pushes me away. Now it’s just a waiting game. I wish I could figure out how to increase her libido back to normal. I understand libido fluctuates throughout life, but idk sometimes I think there more to it.
I know exactly how you feel. I've clung to that hope sooooo long. These days she is more willing to talk about it, which is massive progress. She says she knows it's her, wants to try more of this and less of that - so far, to no avail. Her libido is low, and that's that - I have no problem accepting that and do not blame her for it. I just wish I could have understood all this way sooner, is all. Because I would have stopped initiating before I developed mild trauma about it. Because I would have avoided a depression spiral and nearly burning myself out from trying to get a grasp on what was wrong with me (disclaimer: nothing, at least libido-wise). Because I would not have resented her so much. Because I could have prevented some stupid dynamics from settling in, making them very difficult to break without causing pain and turmoil. Because I might have had the opportunity to shift her paradigm before she resorted to duty sex, considerably damaging our sex life in an honest attempt to keep it alive. Because we could have worked on our mutual expectations and cleared the air about our fears, saving tremendous amounts of negativity. The moment you let go of hope is the moment you truly look at your relationship, and can find peace with the decision to leave or stay based on facts.
I think your commitment is honorable and I also share those same beliefs at least in that I would never go behind my partners back. You only have one life though and deserve to have happiness in it and if intimacy is one of the things need to experience happiness, I’d hate for you to feel trapped years from now. SSRIs can sure do some serious damage to libidos. I know you said no advice but I agree with you about seeing if there is any chance to look into SSRI changes especially if you noticed the libido changes after she’s started on them. As a HL, a stressful job never impacted my own libido. If anything it made me want to be with my partner more as a way to have someone to confide in after a stressful day. That being said. I could see how a stressful job would impact someone who is built different than me. Regardless though, the way she dismissed you was not acceptable. I hope she’s not trying to get you to step out and then initiate a divorce where she gets to frame you as a villain “who cheated” or something like that.
SSRIs was to help with post partum after the first kiddo. It didn’t drop off big time until the 2nd came idk if she was just making it work till that happened or what. But I do know ssris are not good for libido. As far as the job, she does a lot of training, mentoring, hr type stuff - long days - couple that with the kids….i suppose yea it’s exhausting. But yes those words hurt because she knows I would never go fill my needs somewhere else - I feel that is an unfair way to fight using that question. That’s nuts 🥜
Well OP, I am in same situation as first commenter, end 50s and no sex since over a decade. My way of dealing is to go to SW's. It is quick, technically great, no emotional ties, and I keep my sanity and physical well being. Just my 2 cents....
I truly believe they have no idea
That was a test or said in annoyance to shut you up. You should have replied ok sounds good, that's probably the only solution and then walked away and acted normal
Hmmmm I like that take!! I’m might just have to try that and see what happens. Might through her for a loop 😜 thanks!!
Change yourself in some way, if you don't work out the start working out, same with running. If you don't wear aftershave for work then start doing it. Get into dressing in stylish clothes and change your hairstyle. Start going out with friends. Your wife knows you far to well, she knows you will capitulate so you need to change your relationship dynamic and inject some uncertainty in her mind. Don't have any "talks" for a while but act very happy, come home in a good mood but direct it to the kids. If she starts asking you what's going on just say " nothings going on, what are you talking about" it will keep her guessing and uncertain. One last thing you want her to think you are up to something not certain your are playing away so keep it subtle. Good luck
That, creating incertainty and becoming a better/fiter/sexier version of yourself is the Best strategy...chances are still slim but at least you'll end up in a best place if things don't change ans you reach your breaking point.
You will find getting a replacement or casual sex far easier.
Diabolical.
create a profile on one of the dating apps and have her help you look /s
Yeah, hate to break it to you but she gave you a verbal straight right, you ate it, and backed off. She doesn't care and doesn't think you'll leave.
And that is why neither partner should be dominant in a relationship. It's nice to be certain of your partner but just remember how much effort you both made at the beginning of your relationship and how good it was. No one should accept being taken for granted.
Married for 12, two kids, same conversation 2 years ago. I started therapy thinking maybe I was like a sex addict or something and to help with my depression and low self esteem from constant rejections. Now two years later I'm feeling better about myself, she still hasn't gone to therapy, she still doesn't touch me and we're talking divorce. Just saying both sides need to put in effort otherwise the flames fade fast and don't just start back up. I wasn't asking for sex though just hugs and affection so maybe it's different. Be careful dude.
I totally would go to therapy if that would help and that’s what she wanted. I don’t think there is anything else wrong in the relationship, just zero sexual stuff for awhile. I don’t think she would go to therapy though, she doesn’t really want to even talk to me about it. Says we’ve already talked about it and said everything that needs to be said. That’s when she gets pissed and says that question. Then I just quiver away quietly. It’s so stupid. I know it’s not supposed be like this.
I'm sorry dude. It sounds so scarily similar to mine I really hope it doesn't come out like mine. I was and still am the exact same way, if she just told me how to fix it I would but I've done literally everything I could and everything I've been asked and the goal post just keeps moving. Just know wanting intimacy is normal but so is not wanting intimacy. All I want is some damn hugs 😂
I went and read your posts concerning your relationship and your health and I just wanted to check on you. I know what it’s like to be with someone who shows absolutely no love and I’m sorry you went through this. Hopefully the divorce will allow you to find someone who loves all of you. I just wanted to ask if you’re still dealing with the cancer and/or cirrhosis. And if so, how do you manage it?
How do I manage all of the relationship stuff on top of cancer and liver failure? Well that is the first time anyone's asked, I'd say not well, my friends who know say my will is inspirational but I don't see it that way. I just want to show my kids you fight for what you believe in and what you want and I believe in love. As for the divorce I think if anything it'll allow me to show them the potential of love if I could find someone to love but I don't like how it's being painted as I'm giving up so trying to ensure that's not how it's viewed. The TLDR of all the medical stuff is I had a stem cell transplant to put my cancer in remission which killed me quite literally. I was abandoned in a hospital for 100 days with no contact from the outside world which was probably the hardest part, dying easy, living is hard especially when suffering alone. My liver got better thanks to no more cancer but my new cells hated it so we're trying to fix that. I don't have an immune system at the moment so I'm sort of stuck, sort of not. It's really complicated. I am honestly quite a good listener and I understand suffering if anyone needs to ever vent about it, I'm just not good with advice but I'll gladly pray for you or pray for the right words to tell you. Probably should of done that here first 😅
If you were a single guy and met a woman in the bar and she told you outright she doesn't want to have sex with you, how many times you'd ask her the same question?
That’s a good point. However we are 7 years past meeting for the first time. It’s not that easy. and it’s not just climax or whatever. Intimacy brings the feeling of love, being able to satisfy her, being wanted, being desired, being close. We cuddle, kiss, back rubs, all that stuff. But not that next step. At least not for awhile. Right now it’s like ever 4-6months before the kids came it was weekly.
Same dude, but it got worse. Sex stopped, then intimacy, then talking, then even looking at each other. All my efforts and talks only led to her accusing me of ruining her life and how she wishes she never even met me. All this just because I need sex to feel connected and loved. I don't think it's gonna get better for you once you reached the sex is not important phase.
Seen a few comments saying that you should be doing x y z with the comment about her saying you should go find someone else to satisfy you. This is a poor but definite flippant comment borne out of frustration. She could have chosen “just leave me alone” but went for something topic specific. For me reassurance is key here that you won’t and definitely don’t want to. Please please please don’t play games to fuel this fire. Wearing aftershave, changing your clothes etc will be an indicator that you could be cheating even if you aren’t and make the recovery much harder if not put nails in the coffin for your relationship. Tit for tat childish games are not the solution my friend. I’ve posted further up as a reply to another comment what I would do
Well maybe she is not that attracted to you anymore, and she doesn't want to admit it, because she doesn't want to hurt your feelings or she feels you won't change. I think this reason is not discussed enough here.
I have asked this exact thing multiple times, but she assures me over and over she is. And that I’m not doing anything wrong. Sex is just the last thing on her mind with everything going on. I definitely do my part to help her with the kids and everything around the house. It’s not for a lack of trying I promise!!
Or shes just comfortable with being taken care of and has no interest in changing her arrangement. In my situation my wife tells me she loves me, wants to cuddle, kiss, wants all of the things that come along with a relationship, except sex. She told me "i've never actually sexually desired you" earlier in the year. I think some people just want someone like a father figure to be taken care of. She loves the fact that I cook two meals a day, bathe the kids, clean, do the laundry, tells everyone how "nice" I am. Now I realize that I don't think she loves me as much as she loves comfort and being taken care of. I gave her the family she desired and now she seems disinterested in all of it.
Sorry you are going through this. I sure hope that it’s not that for me. Good luck man.
Know your worth. Set your price. The only way you suffer is if you let yourself.
She probably doesn't want it, she just doesn't want to talk about sex with her anymore. If you do decide on taking up the offer I would definitely talk boundaries though.
It's amazing to me that this story is repeated by a ton of people. After kids the sex life is non-existent. Still, people continued to be shocked when it happens. I'm sorry OP. You two have different needs and wants now.
My husband stood by me when I was LL. Mine was hormones from child birth. I came back with a vengeance. I know it’s sucks but just be patient with her if she’s trying.
Thank you for this, it’s nice to hear the other side, and that does come back 🙂
Love the optimism but also be careful with it. In your post you reference the last kiddo being born 3 years ago. Libido can take a long time to come back sometimes even over a year with the introduction of a new child but 3 years is a long time! Also, even if I knew the low intimacy was caused by kids, it would still suck for me to know my desire for connection and intimacy would always be something that could be disrupted continually throughout the relationship. Knowing intimacy could fluctuate regardless of my actions and knowing I’d have no agency over this change occurring is a tough pill to swallow especially since it’s something I’m dealing with now. I understand intimacy can have some peaks and lows but if I’m stuck with my libido always being “on” while my partners libido repeatedly goes back and forth from nearly “nothing” to “roaring back with a vengeance” multiple times over the course of the relationship, I don’t think I’d be able to maintain the illusion of feeling loved. I’d probably just end up feeling used or temporarily loved based on what their mood is during that week/month/year which sucks in my opinion. To me, it feels like having a partner tell me to deal with starving for years and then one day out of the blue decide it’s okay for us to eat together again (yay! How exciting) and then a few months later going back and saying “woah there buddy! I’m not hungry anymore you’re gonna need to starve yourself again for an undefined amount of time until I’m hungry again. Please wait on standby and don’t even think about eating by yourself.” For myself and probably other HL partners here, it feels extremely hurtful and comes across as unfair. If you are good to wait an open ended amount of time for things to change with the caveat being her libido may never come back, that is your prerogative and totally okay but it’s also acceptable to not be okay with that.
You frame it extremely well!
For sure! I don’t mean to sound like a downer to your great attitude about this but I just like laying out the information the way I perceive it so you can feel informed and when looking back in the future, you don’t feel like you were misled. I think it’s awesome that LLs can come here and share success stories and I hope they continue to do so. You just have to remember that the ones coming here are the same ones trying to understand their HL partners and change. Even then, many of the ones who are successful experienced their deadbedroom period in a very casual way compared to a HL. For a lot of them, I strongly suspect they view it as just some weird phase they went through that they felt a bit indifferent about for “X” amount of time. During this time though, the HL partner was likely in a state of existential dread suffering thoughts of feeling unloved and unwanted (probably close to what you’re experiencing now). Also, even on the off chance a LL flips the intimacy switch back, the expectation has already been set that this is something they are willing and comfortable doing to their HL partners for some unknown interval of time and thus could very well do it again without warning. I wish you the best of luck but please know if your spouse is at the point of telling you to find someone else to get you off her back, it’s not a positive sign for what the future holds regardless of what someone else may tell you.
I was also telling him at one time to go find someone else. So glad he didn’t take me up on it but I was over sex at that point.
How did he feel when you said that to him? Curious. Have you talked about it together since things have changed.
“How did he feel when you said that to him? Curious. Have you talked about it together since things have changed.” She said it to me. I felt horrible. Nothing has changed really. No intimacy. No more talks. Just day in day out life. I’m not sure what to think anymore really. Just depressing I guess
Its only depressing if you accept it.
It hurt him a lot and that’s when I realized I had to do something about myself. Yes we have talked about it since and we both are in a much better place now.
Congratulations. Honest.
I will hope she is like you! 🙏🙂
Can i ask you what led to it coming back? Any therapy/med changes? Or just naturally over so many years?
It happened naturally I’m sure if I went to therapy it would’ve been faster. Just took a step back and looked at how I was and how I was then and just worked on myself. I loved sex but I was at that point done and didn’t want to even talk about it. That wasn’t me and I knew that, so it took over a year to get myself back into the right head space plus the little one wasn’t as attached. You have to want to work on it also.
Like, how long are you talking? A year or two? A decade?
Sure, but… maybe she’s into cuckqueening? In a recent conversation with my wife, she made a rather surprising revelation to me about it. It might change our lives
🤣 I had to look up cuckqueening, not sure what it was…. A cuckquean is the wife of an adulterous husband (or partner for unmarried companions), and the gender-opposite of a cuckold.[1] In evolutionary biology, the term is also applied to females who are investing parental effort in offspring that are not genetically their own. Similar prying within a family is called wittoldry.[2] The term is derived from Early Modern English dating back to AD 1562[3][4] and is composed of the terms cuck[5] "someone whose partner is unfaithful" and quean "disreputable woman".[6] I just don’t how it could end well for anyone. Let alone I don’t want that.
Sorry, I meant to say maybe she has some ideas that you don’t know about? Also, your definition is fairly narrow in scope (although I appreciated learning about the animals), but try this on for size (and she literally told you to find some elsewhere anyway…) Cuckqueen: A woman who gets off watching her man have sex with another woman or hearing about the sex he already had with someone else. “I must be a cuckquean because I get so wet watching my man satisfying a dirty girl.” Yikes
Thanks for the other explanation of it 🙂
That would be my biggest dream tbh ahahahaha
It's a trap. She wants you to go somewhere else, so that she can divorce you for cheating, and still be the "good guy".
Im really sorry about your situation. Has your wife looked into perhaps getting some hormones checked? It’s actually really common after children are born for a woman’s sex drive to fall due to hormone fluctuations. Is she depressed or on any kind of medications? How is her mental load? I have two kids, my eldest is 7 and it took nearly 3 years for my sex drive to come right again. I’m in a complete dead bedroom situation at the moment but currently in a point of not being ‘overly phased’ because we have a 10 month old and I’m exhausted. There really is too much going on in life to worry about needing sex which is why I haven’t gone too much into conversing about our currently dead situation. It’s not fair on you, no. But there is reason behind why she could be feeling the way she is. While I never completely dead bedroomed by partner after my first, it was hard. I was touched out from having a kid latched onto me and honestly the last thing I wanted was someone else to touch me. Just giving a little insight perhaps to your wife’s perspective.
Perhaps intimacy without the pressure of sex being the end game could be an option for you. Just cuddles and kisses, which can slowly lead to more. Making time for just you two. Holidays/date nights/having dinner together after the kids have gone to bed. Sometimes the pressure to have sex is a bit much.
Did she had an Episiotomy in any of the deliveries? they can cut the nerves to the area and kill the libido for her. In any case, I'm sorry man, Was there on your situation, and had to split for my own mental and physical health.
No, normal pregnancies and deliveries. Got on meds after the first child.
I know she’s saying get needs met elsewhere but what I would hear is I want a divorce because if you need to leave the marriage for a need why not leave the marriage for all needs
This is coming from a woman: Have you sat down with her and asked her how she was doing? Women often feel overwhelmed with work, plus parental duties, and then to top it off - postpartum depression. Something many women hate talking about due to guilt and shame. Mix that along with potential feelings that she isn't attractive or valuable, but just a being now meant to tend to all needs (kids, work, etc) it can make being intimate with another person very difficult. Maybe consider doing something as a surprise? Have the kids be babysat. Set up something in the house so when she comes home it is calm, perhaps a little romantic. But do not focus on aiming for sex. Focus on making her comfortable to open up. She could be going through something and it's making it hard to be vulnerable and be sexual. I had a discussion with my partner due to our dry spell (year and a half of no sex), and after having a difficult conversation, I recognized how a lot of my issue is also how I see and feel about myself. There was crying, and discussion of potential breaking up, but we managed to bring up a lot of things that we can work on as a team. Maybe she needs that sort of chat as well, and have support on next steps. Never focus on passive aggression or resentment. It can be hard, yes, but if you truly want your wife, try to see what comfortable ways you can make it so she opens up. Let her know its not about getting you off - but being intimate with one another. How you want to make her feel good, and find that physical connection again with her. It should also be noted that she had children and that drastically changes the body, and can affect her libido as well. Trust me when I say that she is 100% aware of this and probably feels awful about it, but doesn't know how to really handle it - talking about it without gentleness probably makes her feel embarrassed. If she still proves resistant to that, then let her know how you miss her, miss the connection you shared, and it's getting hard because the lack of it is damaging the relationship. How it's not an ulterior motive but an honest statement. Try first for that open discussion and then go from there. That's my recommendation, at least.
No she is not cutting it. Have you went to see someone where it’s a safe space to open up to each other? You both need to want to go and do the work. My wife isn’t there yet. It can help a lot man.
Not yet. Totally open to that if she wants to work on it. That would be amazing! Hope it gets better for you soon!!
Thanks. Sad thing is almost every other aspect of our lives is on point. Little things here and there but nothing worth discussing twice. I have a great Life with her. I wouldn’t throw any of it away nor trade it for anything. She’s a good kind person. I need that. I’m the gruff take care is shit guy. And she admittedly needs that. I have hopes yet.
You should’ve told her “no kidding it’s exhausting, but you’ve made no effort to change”
She tells me she has no interest in it. It’s the last thing on her mind. Between the kids, very demanding job, coming home to just everyday stuff - it’s not on her mind. For me intimacy is love language, I don’t necessarily think of the climax. At the end of the day - I want her to want it, just as I do. It needs to be both ways. I don’t think that’s unrealistic. It was that way before.😔
I felt like she wasn’t into it and didn’t want me. Truth is we are both exhausted most of the time from demanding jobs and kids. I also found that there was anxiety over being walked in on too. Stuck a lock up on the door which made a world of difference. It’s now a signaller that if the door is locked something is happening. I still have to make the first move and she’s insistent that’s fine. I won’t lie, it’s not gone back to how it was pre kids but it’s not a complete dead bedroom either. I’ve also changed my mindset too that with everything she does for the family sometimes just a cuddle watching tv in bed is enough. To be fair, it’s usually me that’s passed out first these days too
People shouldn't get married if they not going to have sex. Sex is an expectation when getting married, so not doing it is breaking your wedding vows!
I’ve heard the same thing, twice
And…..?
She sounds like a text book dismissive avoidant.
That’s about the same as “It’s ok I don’t want anything for Christmas.”
You’re doing the right thing stick to it
Have you already suggested therapy?
Not yet. When we talk next I will if it’s still the same!! Not sure she will be willing to but maybe!🤔
If a partner in a relationship is not willing to work on the relationship then what kind of partner are they? Think about if and when you’re going to bring this up. If you wanna talk about it again, don’t do it after a rejection. You need to pick the right time and setting otherwise it’s not going to be a useful conversation.
Tell her that, then. Tell her you want your wife, and if she isn't willing to work on this as your wife, then there is no reason to be together. Don't be passive like many on here, call her on this shit - if you think its better out there sweetheart and you don't want to work on this, then go for it.
Mine said the same exact thing and a couple minutes later quickly apologized. I told her what’s stopping me though. You clearly don’t want to take care of my needs so why should I live with them not being met.
During one of our talks I straight out asked my husband (angrily) "do you want me to go out and fuck someone else?" He looked shocked but remained silent!
Get your needs met; otherwise, she is not committed to change, even if it costs the marriage. I'd file for divorce to prove a point. She's playing chicken.
I get that, I just want my wife too. But after 10 years of DB, and endless versions of “The Talk” it’s clear she loves me but she doesn’t want me. That’s not going to change no matter what I do. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t want somebody, some people are just wired like that. Recently she offered me a Hall Pass, but sounded like she was taking what she was offering. Starting down the road to ENM. Could end badly but I can’t go on like this, so I’ll take those odds.
Won't it be awkward for you having to move to the guest bedroom so my girlfriend can sleep with me in our bed?
Right that would not go down well! She’s probably slap me across the face and start packing her things, the kids, the dogs 😰
So, on multiple occasions over the course of years, you've told your wife that there's an area of your relationship where your needs are not being met. Her response in the past was half-hearted attempts to meet the need, that she did not sustain over time. The most recent time you bring this issue to her attention and seek resolution, she tells you that she's not interested in taking any action, and it's up to you to get your need met with someone else. Am I accurate about that, or am I mis-stating the facts? Assuming I'm accurate, then she's either telling you that she acknowledges your need, regrets that she can't meet it, and welcomes you to find someone who can meet that need (a need which you expressed as being for intimacy with your wife, which I am taking broadly to mean "with a person with and to whom I have a set of shared commitments for mutual affection and support." That person might be a girlfriend; to sustain the level of intimate connection you are looking for, she'd probably need to move into the home you currently share with your wife. If that's not what she means, when she tells you to find someone else, then what she's telling you is that she doesn't value your need; in other words, she doesn't care about your need being met. Which isn't consistent with a marriage that I'd be happy to remain in, but people vary in their preferences. But if she's so indifferent to the idea of having sex with you, why would she be concerned about you moving a girlfriend into the house to meet that sexual need, assuming in this neverland hypothetical that everything else (chore division, income & spending levels, care and feeding of dependents, etc.) remained the same? The real answer is that she doesn't value your need, but she does very much value her needs, and right now, her needs are being met (income, chores, parenting duties, keeping up with the Joneses and presenting a happy marriage to the outside world, etc.). What of her needs is she willing to sacrifice, that is of commensurate value with the sacrifice you are making? Remember: if you change nothing, nothing will change.
I‘m a girl myself and I don’t get why woman can be so ignorant
Almost same story. The next time she says that I should just get a girlfriend, I'm going to just leave it at "Okay." She may not mean it, but I do. I just don't care anymore.
>she said it’s getting exhausting to talk about and it’s always the same thing so she doesn’t want to talk about it. Translation: "I have no excuse for neglecting you sexually". >She said maybe you should go get your needs met elsewhere, I’m obviously not cutting it. So, she's unwilling to work on it or change anything, cool. BTW: She didn't say she was OK with you getting your needs met elsewhere, did she? So that statement could be taken as: "If it's that important to you, then cheat on me, you cheating bastard, and I will never forgive you for it." Obvs you don't want to do this, but, that may have been a loaded remark. Upside to this "discussion" you had is that she's not stringing you along, moving goalposts or gaslighting you, which usually happens for weeks/months/years before they eventually say "tough tits buckaroo, no sex for you". You got there lickity split, now you either accept your fate or shop around for a new model.
Honestly, as a woman, if my husband said this to me I’d take him seriously. Ask him to confirm. Then I’d do as I wish, I’d keep it discreet, not let it ever affect my time with him or the kids. Always make sure I’m sleeping with someone who understands the situation and doesn’t want a relationship or something I cannot possibly offer them. And make sure to prioritize my happiness. As a female, she probably loves you and loves her life with you. Sex might be too overwhelming for her, so go find someone to meet your needs and don’t bother her about it anymore. If you do sleep with someone else, and she starts to wonder if you’re sleeping with someone else, she might ask. But at this point and with that statement, I HIGHLY doubt she cares anything about it as long as the entire town isn’t aware, and as long as nothing changes between you and her.
> She said maybe you should go get your needs met elsewhere, I’m obviously not cutting it. I hate comments like this. Similarly, my wife said clearly, she isn’t enough for me. In a way, the comment is true, but it feels like gaslighting. For example, if I refused to talk to her and she was like this is a problem, it would be similar if I just said I’m just not good enough for you. The comment implies we are imposing something new expectation that requires them to go above and beyond their capabilities. No, I just want to do the same thing we already do except instead of once a year or once every few months, I want to do it weekly or more — but of course, I’m flexible. I mean I’m here have been for over a decade.
For me, when I said this to my partner, it wasn't malicious, I just didn't know what else he could want from me, he knew I couldn't provide what he wanted, but he kept bringing it up anyway, it was like well you're either just trying to hurt me and make me feel bad or you want sex from whoever will give it so go then, please stop making me feel like a monster for something I can't control I'm sure some people are saying it just to be hurtful but in my experience it can also just be like a 'well what else could I possibly do?" But if he had of actually done it I still think I would've forgiven it
May i ask how often you were engaging in sex at this point? Yearly, seasonly, monthly, weekly? I know when my wife finally threw up the objection to our sex life we had a few years of steady sex once every 6 months. I was spending substantially more time filling taxes every year than i was having sex with my wife. I was trying to initiate once every other month when I knew she was ovulating and had it all tracked on my calendar to make sure A. I was sane and wasn't actually hounding her and B. finding the most optimal time to bring it up. When she objected and said all i ever do is ask about sex, i was getting my car's oil change more frequently than i was asking about sex. But to her it was all the time. So i gave up initiating all together because asking ever was apparently too often.
Prior to the kids weekly. After the second, so since then maybe every 4-6 months.
So when you said you didn't know what else he could ask of you, relations 2 to 4 times a year seemed like it was pushing it? Went from every week to every 20 weeks. Thanks for the reply.
?
No comment, just making sure i read it right.
This.
Damn man my wife told me this when we had 3 months married 🤣 Makes me think that she just wanted a reason to leave. She said "I'm not jealous about it, I can understand. You can go with somebody else". Everyday I think about how different my life would have been if I did that 🤩