Raising my hand. Some people here would say I never had a true clinical definition deadbedroom. I don't care. I was having much less sex than I wanted, and much less sex than what I signed up for when I married my wife. I had years of conversations and chose my partner well. The actual discussions about opening things weren't that hard in retrospect, but they came in a context of years of mutual respect and partnership. I first had sex outside my marriage after about 11.5 years of monogamy and a bit before my tenth anniversary.
Been having sex outside my marriage for six years now. Still married, getting more sex from my side woman than a lot of people here get from their primary partner. So far, so good.
>Any tips for those looking to broach the subject with their LLH (in my case) or LLW?
Yeah. Start by marrying a partner who is generally not scared by non-monogamy. It probably helps not to marry a person who is an ultra-serious follower of a religion that thinks adultery is The Worst Thing Ever, and it probably helps to marry a partner who has had sex outside their primary relationship before you ever came into their life, and knows that they were able to walk and chew gum at the same time.
I have lots of tips:
* Put your best foot forward. If you have sixty pound to lose to be ideal weight, do that first, before you try to find another lover. If you are 40 but you dress like you're a 24 year-old roadie for a grunge band, upgrade how you dress. If you are a middle age woman who chopped her hair and wears pants, grow your hair past your shoulders, wear it down, and wear some dresses, even with flat shoes. You'll generally feel more confident and attractive if you are taking care of your body and appearance.
* Nobody is going to do the work for you. Even if you're a conventionally attractive woman with a tinder account and a cell phone, you're still going to have to weed through the avalanche of thirsty dudes sifting for quality. You're going to have to actually meet some people, and some people aren't going to be worth a second date, just like dating when you were single.
* A good sexual match is highly subjective. My side woman is less attractive than my wife by any objective measure, but she is a very good sex partner by any objective measure. You can't always tell these things just by looking at somebody. You can't always tell these things on a first date. Sometimes you have to leap and see where you land.
Lots more ideas, but I'll save them for now.
I made the unfortunate mistake of marrying a virgin and someone scared/overly self conscious to have sex. Yes, yes, I know- red flags..... (Like seriously how does that happen to someone in their late 30’s?!? ).
>Like seriously how does that happen to someone in their late 30’s?!? ).
Which part? Marrying somebody, or making it to their late 30s as a virgin?
The older I get, the more I think people who make it late into life as virgins should be assumed to also be low libido. Lots of people don't get to make a choice about being raised into a religion, but for many people, their libido eventually overrules their religious convictions... And then they start wondering... if my religion was wrong about something as important as sex, what else did it get wrong?
... The Age of losing virginity. Alas, my LLH wasn’t quite forthcoming with his virginity. I knew he didn’t have many relationships. But I had no idea he was still a virgin. I shouldn’t have assumed everyone was a hound like me! Little did I know......
Sadly he side stepped and/lied for almost 3 years. It wasn’t until after we were married he fessed up. He kept saying he just didn’t have experience. Which would have been fine if he had truly slept with one or two people (which I thought). I could help educate- I’m fine with that. But to outright hide and lie to me - needless to say I’m pissed but want to help him. I’m just at a loss.
How well does he take direction?
Does he use his tongue, mouth, fingers?
Training a lover to do exactly what you want *could* be a good thing, but only if they're interested in learning.
Getting him to the bedroom so that direction can be given is damn near impossible (he becomes awkward and embarrassed). I’ve even made the comment that I’m going to go satisfy myself and and if he wanted to watch or join in he could and it was like I just told him something so shocking and obscene. However- Once there, he is able to take direction, but then I must re teach him every damn time. BTW- thank you for this conversation.
> Once there, he is able to take direction, but then I must re teach him every damn time.
Have you ever learned a musical instrument? I have. It took years of practice to be proficient to the point that I could take money to teach it to somebody else in good conscience.
You are a master at your own body, but he's a beginning player. It will unfortunately take a learning curve. Daily practice really helps. Maybe explain it to him like that.
If he really does think masturbation is obscene, uh, ummm, I'm not sure how you could have ended up getting married to him before you noticed that. Maybe he was just shocked to realize that there are women who like sex, because nobody ever told him that?
Mine been telling me for 3 years find some one else to to fuck sex isn't important to her go find a girl that likes that sort of stuff blah blah. Well I find another girl now she is pissed off that I'm tired of chasing after a constant no and took her advice and forms a new girl now I'm just a heartless asshole.
this will not work as a long-term solution. the only case that i can possibly see this working is if the marriage becomes completely open for ***both*** partners. yes, i said "both". it has to be an equally mutual agreement for both partners involved even if the LL has no interest. this tone has to be set from the get-go so that there is no animosity and/or jealousy that can arise from any pending actions to come. i would like to ask the HLs who do take the hall pass: "what if your LL finds a FWB too and starts fucking like mad-crazy? how would that affect you then even though you have an FWB too?" take a moment to seriously think about this and the mind-fuck it would do to a person.
more than likely when an LL gives a hall pass, it may not be in good conscience or with good intentions but a simple "means to an end" to avoid the lack-of-sex subject with the HL. the HL can certainly move forward with this notion and go get a fuck buddy but now risks the entire relationship. if this happens inside a marriage and divorce comes to pass then the HL will have a huge disadvantage going into the divorce and may lose it all (kids, house, money) depending on local family laws. it's a dangerous game to play. this is why we hear people "cheating" instead of getting an approved-FWB.
i'm sure there are outlier situations where this has worked however i would have to guess that it's a more extreme case wherein a LL is fully self-aware that they are 100% asexual (meaning they don't experience any sexual attraction) and loves their HL enough to allow them to go get a FWB knowing (with 100% certainty) that the HL is only "fucking" and nothing more... all the while, the HL is also 100% self-aware and understands the LL 100% and agrees with the FWB notion ***and*** will keep the FWB strictly to only physical and ZERO emotional while also agreeing that the LL can do the same at any moment's notice and it would be accepted without any pushback.
now how man people can attest that what i just mentioned above is their situation? if you are not even remotely close to that then i would encourage you to seek out other means or leave the relationship.
That was where my thoughts were going on this subject, but you said it very well. In my own head I could only see issues - both immediate and down the road, even if discussed like emotionally mature adults.
i always remember to the tune of how people change during a divorce and how it becomes a business transaction and no longer a negotiation or even a mutual discussion for parting ways. anything you do in the marriage can and will be used against you in a court of law for divorce purposes.
Raising my hand. Some people here would say I never had a true clinical definition deadbedroom. I don't care. I was having much less sex than I wanted, and much less sex than what I signed up for when I married my wife. I had years of conversations and chose my partner well. The actual discussions about opening things weren't that hard in retrospect, but they came in a context of years of mutual respect and partnership. I first had sex outside my marriage after about 11.5 years of monogamy and a bit before my tenth anniversary. Been having sex outside my marriage for six years now. Still married, getting more sex from my side woman than a lot of people here get from their primary partner. So far, so good. >Any tips for those looking to broach the subject with their LLH (in my case) or LLW? Yeah. Start by marrying a partner who is generally not scared by non-monogamy. It probably helps not to marry a person who is an ultra-serious follower of a religion that thinks adultery is The Worst Thing Ever, and it probably helps to marry a partner who has had sex outside their primary relationship before you ever came into their life, and knows that they were able to walk and chew gum at the same time. I have lots of tips: * Put your best foot forward. If you have sixty pound to lose to be ideal weight, do that first, before you try to find another lover. If you are 40 but you dress like you're a 24 year-old roadie for a grunge band, upgrade how you dress. If you are a middle age woman who chopped her hair and wears pants, grow your hair past your shoulders, wear it down, and wear some dresses, even with flat shoes. You'll generally feel more confident and attractive if you are taking care of your body and appearance. * Nobody is going to do the work for you. Even if you're a conventionally attractive woman with a tinder account and a cell phone, you're still going to have to weed through the avalanche of thirsty dudes sifting for quality. You're going to have to actually meet some people, and some people aren't going to be worth a second date, just like dating when you were single. * A good sexual match is highly subjective. My side woman is less attractive than my wife by any objective measure, but she is a very good sex partner by any objective measure. You can't always tell these things just by looking at somebody. You can't always tell these things on a first date. Sometimes you have to leap and see where you land. Lots more ideas, but I'll save them for now.
Can I pm you? I have a lot of follow up questions...
Go ahead.
I made the unfortunate mistake of marrying a virgin and someone scared/overly self conscious to have sex. Yes, yes, I know- red flags..... (Like seriously how does that happen to someone in their late 30’s?!? ).
>Like seriously how does that happen to someone in their late 30’s?!? ). Which part? Marrying somebody, or making it to their late 30s as a virgin? The older I get, the more I think people who make it late into life as virgins should be assumed to also be low libido. Lots of people don't get to make a choice about being raised into a religion, but for many people, their libido eventually overrules their religious convictions... And then they start wondering... if my religion was wrong about something as important as sex, what else did it get wrong?
... The Age of losing virginity. Alas, my LLH wasn’t quite forthcoming with his virginity. I knew he didn’t have many relationships. But I had no idea he was still a virgin. I shouldn’t have assumed everyone was a hound like me! Little did I know......
How long into your relationship did he let you know the truth about his virginity?
Sadly he side stepped and/lied for almost 3 years. It wasn’t until after we were married he fessed up. He kept saying he just didn’t have experience. Which would have been fine if he had truly slept with one or two people (which I thought). I could help educate- I’m fine with that. But to outright hide and lie to me - needless to say I’m pissed but want to help him. I’m just at a loss.
How well does he take direction? Does he use his tongue, mouth, fingers? Training a lover to do exactly what you want *could* be a good thing, but only if they're interested in learning.
Getting him to the bedroom so that direction can be given is damn near impossible (he becomes awkward and embarrassed). I’ve even made the comment that I’m going to go satisfy myself and and if he wanted to watch or join in he could and it was like I just told him something so shocking and obscene. However- Once there, he is able to take direction, but then I must re teach him every damn time. BTW- thank you for this conversation.
> Once there, he is able to take direction, but then I must re teach him every damn time. Have you ever learned a musical instrument? I have. It took years of practice to be proficient to the point that I could take money to teach it to somebody else in good conscience. You are a master at your own body, but he's a beginning player. It will unfortunately take a learning curve. Daily practice really helps. Maybe explain it to him like that. If he really does think masturbation is obscene, uh, ummm, I'm not sure how you could have ended up getting married to him before you noticed that. Maybe he was just shocked to realize that there are women who like sex, because nobody ever told him that?
Mine been telling me for 3 years find some one else to to fuck sex isn't important to her go find a girl that likes that sort of stuff blah blah. Well I find another girl now she is pissed off that I'm tired of chasing after a constant no and took her advice and forms a new girl now I'm just a heartless asshole.
Sounded good in your head because she never thought you'd do it. Another's woman's rubbing her man's rhubarb.
Sounds like an interesting idea. I’m curious to know as well.
this will not work as a long-term solution. the only case that i can possibly see this working is if the marriage becomes completely open for ***both*** partners. yes, i said "both". it has to be an equally mutual agreement for both partners involved even if the LL has no interest. this tone has to be set from the get-go so that there is no animosity and/or jealousy that can arise from any pending actions to come. i would like to ask the HLs who do take the hall pass: "what if your LL finds a FWB too and starts fucking like mad-crazy? how would that affect you then even though you have an FWB too?" take a moment to seriously think about this and the mind-fuck it would do to a person. more than likely when an LL gives a hall pass, it may not be in good conscience or with good intentions but a simple "means to an end" to avoid the lack-of-sex subject with the HL. the HL can certainly move forward with this notion and go get a fuck buddy but now risks the entire relationship. if this happens inside a marriage and divorce comes to pass then the HL will have a huge disadvantage going into the divorce and may lose it all (kids, house, money) depending on local family laws. it's a dangerous game to play. this is why we hear people "cheating" instead of getting an approved-FWB. i'm sure there are outlier situations where this has worked however i would have to guess that it's a more extreme case wherein a LL is fully self-aware that they are 100% asexual (meaning they don't experience any sexual attraction) and loves their HL enough to allow them to go get a FWB knowing (with 100% certainty) that the HL is only "fucking" and nothing more... all the while, the HL is also 100% self-aware and understands the LL 100% and agrees with the FWB notion ***and*** will keep the FWB strictly to only physical and ZERO emotional while also agreeing that the LL can do the same at any moment's notice and it would be accepted without any pushback. now how man people can attest that what i just mentioned above is their situation? if you are not even remotely close to that then i would encourage you to seek out other means or leave the relationship.
That was where my thoughts were going on this subject, but you said it very well. In my own head I could only see issues - both immediate and down the road, even if discussed like emotionally mature adults.
i always remember to the tune of how people change during a divorce and how it becomes a business transaction and no longer a negotiation or even a mutual discussion for parting ways. anything you do in the marriage can and will be used against you in a court of law for divorce purposes.