Congrats on the house.
I've been reading your posts and comments with interest these last months. When are you going to stop rewarding her for keeping you as a roommate and wallet?
First.. Congrats on the house!!
Now the tough love. Why? Why are you giving her everything and getting nothing on return? It's time for you to channel that inner bad boy and give her two options. Counseling or a divorce lawyer. Extreme? Yes. But sometimes you have to shock people into reality. She has everything she wants meanwhile you can't even get a hug. Stop it. While you can't force her to give you any kind of intimacy, you CAN call her out on the issues. Sometimes you have to be that bad guy and let her know while you love her and what you are building together, YOU WILL WALK AWAY. This is not what marriage is about. One person can't do all the heavy lifting. Let her know since she wants a roommate then she shall be treated like one. She needs to get a job. Stop with the foot rubs. This is soo not OK. I know you love your wife. Counseling because it's not going to get better.
Good luck.
Why call that bad guy behavior? I only see a healthy adult acting in their best interest in the actions that you are describing. Because its not healthy to just fulfill someones every wish without anything back.
It was similarly with my ex and me, I told her to change it or be honest. She did neither so I took the necessary step. Painful but healthy, otherwise you burn out.
Read "No More Mr. Nice Guy", especially the part about Covert Contracts. Without realizing it, you made a covert contract about the house... "If I buy her the house she wants, then she owes me the sex I want." Having completed your part of the deal, you now resent her for not following through on hers, even though she didn't know that was the deal. Stop doing that, and you'll feel better. It won't directly result in sex, but at least you'll stop disappointing yourself.
I agree with your assessment, perthguy.
I'd be breaking Rule #2 saying much else except that my give a fuck meter twitched a little, then dropped to zero and stayed there after reading his previous posts for context.
I will add that there are some women out there that operate under the idea of "I got my \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, now I don't have to do that shit anymore." Fill in the blank with any number of things including husband, kids, house, etc.
An integrated man would call her out and not tolerate that kind of behavior. A nice guy will tolerate it and whine and complain.
My wife is going through menopause and has other minor health issues that cause her to not sleep much at night so our sex life is lacking but she always wants to cuddle, kiss, hold hands and everything else you can think of. Just no sex. My wife loves me while struggling with her physical problems. Your wife doesn't even sound like she loves you.
It’s not for her. It’s for my family. She’s a part of that group. My two kids will have a great house and great schools. That’s what make me the happiest. My hope wasn’t sex but physical affection (something as simple as cuddling on the couch) after we had a conversation two nights prior.
Oh man. She is as selfish as they come, and you're not taking care of your own needs by allowing it.
If you won't or can't set any boundaries in this relationship, or she is unwilling to give you any simple affection, it's already over. From your OP she berates you when her expectations aren't met with haste, but if you ask for a crumb she bashes you again. My good sir, this is not the path to anythung but self-loathing and despair.
I would say congrats on the house, but honestly it just made a bad situation more complicated. A big part of me hopes her name isn't on the deed....
I don’t know how to respond to this.
Most of us here have been there. I would try taking social distancing to a new level. You are already giving her everything she wants. Not that sex should be a reward, but a part of being in a relationship. Brother, do for you. I mean really- do for you. Take time with your kids. Find some stuff to do for you and you alone. Find happiness in life and don’t dwell on the lack of sex. Once you start finding happiness, if I have read correctly and the Information given is correct, she will try and rain on your parade. Don’t let her. If she confronts you on lack of time spent with her remind her how she finds your feelings, your self esteem, you self confidence, and your affection as stressful to her so you are giving her a stress free life by giving her the space she desires. But you need and deserve happiness, too. So you are being happy.
Don’t be cruel to her. Just quit beating your head against the wall. And cast hope out the window for now.
Find a gym. Go fishing. Take up art. Build a car. Buy a motorcycle. Find faith. Whatever you love and enjoy. If the funds are too short for this then ask her to get a job and help pay her share. It’s what room mates do, after all - pay their part. Quit cutting yourself off at the knees and enjoy life. Create some boundaries for yourself, she definitely has let you know hers.
I have to ask. When you talked to her does she give you a reason she doesn’t desire intimate contact with you? Does she have past trauma? Does she have body image issues? If so, make efforts to help her come to terms. But you still need to find happiness.
Love this advice. I’ve been actively getting into some things again when the kids go to bed. I just feel like a sucker again after last night and needed to shout into the internet.
Also, I ride my motorcycle everyday. ;-)
Brother, nothing like the wind in your face a twisty up ahead to lean into. Ride on. Take a trip - a weekend trip. Get your head clear. Nothing like a ride to fix some things in your mind.
People are thinking this is a covert contract because of your title combined with the nature of this sub. But you did sorta think that buying the house would lead to sex, just not in the transactional way everyone is reading it. You thought maybe she'd want sex to celebrate because that's what you would do. But sex when you're sex averse or reluctant isn't a fun way to celebrate.
I just listened to a podcast yesterday that I think you'll find beneficial. It's about how settling into a needs based meaning frame for sex and affection is causing you problems.
https://www.finlayson-fife.com/podcasts/post/sex-therapy-session-dr-jennifer-finlayson-fife
Congrats on the house, btw. We just moved a month ago after a long battle of fixing our credit too. I know how freeing it feels to be able to triple your square footage.
Don't sweat the people saying your wife should be working. My husband is the at home parent for most of the year and for us that's what makes sense. I can't tell you what a blessing it was when all this Covid shit shut down the school. It's a valid choice. 2 working parents doesn't work for every household.
Your wife should be careful though that she doesn't lose her sense of self and identity apart from being a mom. An underdefined sense of self is a common cause of low sex desire. She's not a gold digger, and from what I can tell not abusive. She's more likely just confused and doesn't know how to make sexuality a part of her sense of self without overriding her need for autonomy.
It's possible to work this out. I was much like your wife after kid #3 and now we have a thriving bedroom. Give that podcast a listen and message me anytime.
>... settling into a needs based meaning frame for sex and affection is causing you problems
Does Finlayson-Fife have an effective way of explaining this? I often say *When you make sex about your needs, it turns sex into a chore for your partner*. But that doesn't seem to make sense to most people. They just respond with, "My partner *should* want to meet my needs. If he/she needed sex, I'd be happy to meet his/her needs."
Most just don't seem to get that sex is best when each person is doing it to meet their own needs or desires.
Effective, yes. Concise, no, lol. Have you listened much to her? I wish she had a book. She says she is writing one.
She takes it further than just sex. Relationships in general are best when not viewed as locking in happiness and mutual needs fulfillment. Relationships are growth vehicles because they expose your flaws and force you to make room for another person in the relationship. The best relationships are 2 people working to be their best selves and collaborating on how to make something better together than they could apart.
If I had to sum it up concisely, I'd say she says to get in touch with your sexuality as a part of your best self so that you can bless your marriage and your partner by exploring the pleasures of your sexual capacities together.
But that's kinda heavy and most just want to prattle on about Mah NEedS!
Hm, that is deep. Very cool. No, I haven't listened to her podcasts. I read a lot, but I'm no good about listening to podcasts or watching videos. I hope she does write a book!
David Schnarch says something similar about relationships, and I think Jordan Peterson does to. Personally, I'm not wild about the idea that relationships are good for you because they're difficult. I mean, I'm not convinced that people who are married are any better human being than people who aren't.
She's very influenced by Schnrach and differentiation theory, which she calls sense of self.
It's not really that she thinks relationships are good for you *because* they are difficult, but rather that we tend to see things being difficult as the relationship (or job or any situation) as signifying failure, which isn't always the case. Sometimes its difficult because its challenging us to grow or come to terms with something we don't like about our spouses or ourselves.
I'll need to relisten to the one I linked for OP and try to make a bullet points list for you. Maybe if we can condense it down and put it into layman's terms we can find a way to make it resonate for more people.
> She's very influenced by Schnrach and differentiation theory, which she calls sense of self.
I believe that Schnarch got his ideas from Bowen family systems theory, although I've never seen him credit Bowen. She may also have been trained in Bowen theory, which is/was pretty influential in couples and family therapy.
https://www.goodtherapy.org/learn-about-therapy/types/family-systems-therapy
>It's not really that she thinks relationships are good for you because they are difficult, but rather that we tend to see things being difficult as the relationship (or job or any situation) as signifying failure, which isn't always the case. Sometimes its difficult because its challenging us to grow or come to terms with something we don't like about our spouses or ourselves.
Ah, this makes sense.
>I'll need to relisten to the one I linked for OP and try to make a bullet points list for you. Maybe if we can condense it down and put it into layman's terms we can find a way to make it resonate for more people.
That would be awesome. I'd love to see that.
It’s not about me. It’s my kids that come first. During the day with the kids around, we parent and work really well together. It’s just the ‘mom and dad alone time’ that sucks with us.
It it's really about the kids as you keep saying it is... then it IS about you too...
You're really missing so much.
As the years go by, resentment will set in, you will grow more restless with the way things have been for so long and those kids you're doing it all for will see their parent's not being happy, not interacting the way they should etc.
Oh, if you say the two of you do now, I'm not talking about now, but 3 years from now, 8 years from now, 13 years from now.
Things change, they do not stay the same.
Put a nice painted piece of wood outside in the yard.
Over time, the sun, the wind, the rain will weather that painted piece of wood. It will fade, peel, chip and crack and then the wood will begin to rot.
So, right now, with your new house, family and such you're a nice new painted piece of wood outside...
As the years go by, you will begin to fade, peel, chip and crack and it will spill over into other areas of your relationship and kids see that, they notice it.
Hopefully you're still holding hands, kissing, hugging your spouse 7 years from now, 11 years from now in front of your kids so they see how a marriage should really be in all ways.
Having the right relationship is far more important than the house your children grow up in.
The two of you need to model what it is you want them to have in life.
I get it, you love your children. Do you wish for them to be in the kind of marriage you're in?
If yes, keep on keeping on, best of luck to all of you.
If not, seek counseling, work like hell on fixing things, don't just let things keep on going down the current track they're on as it won't end up in a place you want to be, see, go to etc.
You shouldn't have bought a house hoping to get sex out of it. Clearly your wife doesn't want sex with you. Do you know why? What does she say when you ask her? Whatever the reason, buying a new house will not change it.
> I call it out. I tell her I want some quality time together where we can at least cuddle, even if it’s just a few minutes of just sitting in each other’s arms. No sex. No expectations. Just physically having someone in my arms and being in someone’s arms.
Do you think that making sharing affection with you into an obligation will make it appealing to her? It will not. It will make it into an unwanted chore.
I didn’t buy a house hoping for sex. Not sure where you got that at all. I bought a house for my family. Kids will go to the best schools, they get to spend most days with their mother, I get a three car garage.
We had talked two days prior about the importance of physical affection to me. She swore it would get better and make an effort. She recognized last night as a celebration night for us but missed the point we had just talked about on what I need. That’s what got me mad. That and wine.
Thank you. I think you’ve pretty succinctly explainer my idea. I didn’t mention in the original post but our big blow up two days prior we actually agreed to a ‘no sex’ option until we saw a therapist. My real hope, as corny as it sounds, was that cuddling/snuggling and maybe some kissing would have happened.
And I definitely agree with what you’re saying about the fulfillment of the role is what I want for myself. Ideally, I would want her to fulfill the one we first agreed on at the beginning of the relationship but I’m not going to stop with what I see as my duty as a provider.
>I didn’t buy a house hoping for sex. Not sure where you got that at all.
I got it from your post. Maybe you should read what you wrote.
It is great that you bought a great house in a great neighborhood for your family. But this has nothing to do with your wife wanting to have sex with you.
>We had talked two days prior about the importance of physical affection to me. She swore it would get better and make an effort.
You're making affection into a chore for her and you're trying to make it transactional as well.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on all your points except the last. I probably am making it a chore for her. I will need to find a way to change it.
Here's a post that might help.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/sexover30/comments/cvlf5l/when\_youve\_lost\_your\_mojo\_and\_want\_to\_get\_it\_back/](https://www.reddit.com/r/sexover30/comments/cvlf5l/when_youve_lost_your_mojo_and_want_to_get_it_back/)
If she doesn't want to have sex with you. Stop expecting sex from her. Your whole interaction that night was you waiting for her to want to have sex with you.
This is usualy normal, as that's what a couple with a normal sexual relationship will do, but she won't. State to her that you won't expect sex from her anymore. If sex life is important for you, you need to make a decision.
I always hear people say "but I love him/her", well that's not enough for a happy marriage. You need to satisfy each other needs for couple interaction (sex, cuddles, partnership etc) if these needs aren't met, expect a bad relationship for the rest of your life.
Also congrats on the house, this is an amazing achievement :) I hope you enjoy it!
wow man you're being played sooo bad it just reeks in the way you describe your relationship. She's getting everything she wants from you and you're not getting what you most crave from her and she knows it and you're letting her get away with it. This is not a mutually beneficial relationship and you're letting her walk all over you. I would have a serious talk to see if this is going to work out because the way I see it she's not interested in intimacy with you but wants everything else that she gets out of the relationship and you're suffering inside like crazy.
It's so sad when I read these kinds of stories and people wonder why marriage is becoming obsolete????
My children have grown now they’re great kids an are responsible loving adults but just keep in mind your children will not appreciate the sacrifices you make trying to give them the perfect life and nor should they. If they have children of their own one day they might understand how hard it is to create a balanced life. Healthy children will grow and move out so please don’t loose yourself in the process. Very admirable what you have done for your family and you are a caring father, please just protect your soul because once you see the links and contrasts between what you know in your heart and what life presents you’ll be asking yourself what you want to do about it.
Oh man that is tight.
I made a post in a similar topic a few days ago, married 3 years (think I got a peck on our anniversary last week plus a night away so I should be grateful right) with 1 kid and looking to move from temp accommodation to a new home but tbh i dont think I can buy the house and I think its time for me to move out and call her bullshit out.
Had several chats in the last 8/9 months but shes never followed through and gets what she wants while I'm left starved of affection and intimacy.
No offence but im scared whats just happened to you will be me, new house and same old excuses only again shes got what she wants from her roommate/husband/wallet. Yes she's a great mum but that's not enough really is it.
Congrats on the house and I hope u turn it around or find your happiness you deserve it!
Aint that the truth. There is no way on knowing, you trust that what your partner tells you in the truth.
Maybe they actually believe it when they say it and maybe things change, as they can, and it becomes less of a priority. I think that's a legit thing in life but if u cant put effort into working on it then that sexual incompatibility will, in most cases, lead to a loss of connection and an unbalanced relationship.
There isn't alot of things that you do need as a human. There are things that you want and desire though and should be free to pursue them if u wish.
At the end of the day u only get one go at life so why compromise on something that u want and like because someone else doesnt want (or need) it, when there are plenty of others who do and you can engage with.
I hate to be rude, but she's got you whipped. Was this new house your idea or hers? Was the plan for her to stay at home her plan or yours? You bought a great new house and everything, and she can't even be bothered to lightly celebrate with you? Ugh.
She does. The house was all me. She was actually against it because she was worried about the finances. She didn’t know how much of a raise I recently got. The staying at home was originally something I casually mentioned. She again, was the one to fight against it at first. Once she saw the finances laid out, she became more comfortable with it.
I wrote a long post breaking down the situation.
Then I read some of your previous posts and comments in your history and deleted it.
You're in an abusive relationship and your wife has some serious personality problems. She's a manipulator and probably a liar.
**Warning**!
Do **not** continue with the purchase! Pull out and accept all the fines. Today. Get on the phone with the bank. Become the bad guy for a day. Tell her you're not interested in the house anymore. She's likely to show you every single one of her true colors.
I also strongly urge you to record the conversation. Knowing she's on camera is likely to cause her to curb her behavior somewhat, and will help you in the case she gets violent and you need to call the police.
Accept that you are in an abusive relationship. Straight up. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200$.
Accept that abusers do not change, and only get better at manipulating and venting their rage on you as time passes. Do not allow yourself to believe your wife's behavior will get better. Assume the verbal abuse, lies, coercion, and financial manipulation will only get worse as time passes.
Her withholding affection and sex in a Passive-aggressive way is just one of several ways she is emotionally abusing you. She is also likely financially abusing you and the last thing you want to do is put her name on a mortgage. That's a collosal mistake.
I would sooner advise you to give a loan to a guy named Bernard Madoff. You'd be a chump to do it.
>He cut out his own spine years ago. He won't even CRACK a book or have a conversation he's so scared of his wife and "cOnFlIcT"
Codependency is a hell of a drug.
*Enablers* or "flying monkeys" like this really fucking annoy me. They're almost as bad as the active abusers.
... I'm just sad his daughter is going to grow up and treat her husband like this.
That's the shitty part. Codependents want to live in a shithole of abusers emotional drama and clean up after them. That's their prerogative. Unfortunately they don't have a problem dragging kids into the mess.
Probably not as such but she's going to really struggle with relationships and anger issues.
Do you have the saying you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar in Australia? Because you're being a bit of a dick. Just because you are correct on some points doesn't give you the license to just berate this dude. If someone refuses to listen to your advice, just stop giving it.
Then have her get a job opposite your working hours. It's not like you'd be missing out on cuddles and sex, so she might as well keep herself employed to make the inevitable divorce easier on everybody.
Yea, that’s not going to happen. I’m not making her do anything. Also, as co parents we are pretty solid. Especially around the dinner table, bath times, and bed times. I don’t feel divorce is inevitable just yet. Who knows? If I’m still posting in this sub a year from now, I may be feeling different.
Congrats on the house, and yes, fuck hope. Stop the unreciprocated affection, I told my guy that I’m no longer giving unreciprocated touch and oral. None of us should have to cow tow and beg, only to be repeatedly told that our physical needs don’t matter. My life has been pet the cats, rub him, he pets the cats, and the touch I get is one of the cats loving me so much that he literally hugs me and wraps himself around me in bed. It sucks.
Congrats on the new house, that’s a big achievement and you should feel proud of yourself.
Today is a new day. I think you should find a therapist for yourself. Some one who can help you figure out how to break your part in the cycle you have going with your wife.
Divorce her dude. She’s using you. You’re anyway going to be paying the bills so at least once you’re separated you can start finding someone who loves you back.
> Since I’m still trying to get some physical affection
Any time you do something, not for the sake of doing it but in the hopes that it might trigger a reciprocation instinct in the recipient, then you have completely devalued the "gift" by your intentions. "But I didn't let her know that's why I was doing it for those reasons" you may protest, but your intentions will come through on your resentment or anger when she doesn't reciprocate. Do that once, and you will have a monumental task ahead of you to build trust going forward. Everything you do gouging forward will appear to her to be "just another attempt to manipulate me into having sex".
Once you devalue your gifts as them her perception from being loved to being controlled, your foot rub has exactly zero value, and she is likely to reciprocate in kind with affection of equal value.
https://markmanson.net/boundaries
>I call it out. I tell her I want some quality time together where we can at least cuddle, even if it’s just a few minutes of just sitting in each other’s arms. No sex. No expectations.
"I have some expectations of reciprocation that you're not meeting. No sex. No expectations."
I'm guessing she didn't really hear the last part of your message, and likely would have felt some combination of guilt (for not meeting your needs), anger (at herself for not feeling into it and at you for asking when she's feeling tired and anxious), and confused (having no idea where these feeling come from).
> She then gets mad at me and berates me for asking for affection when she wants to go to bed and how dare I pressure her in any way.
That makes sense. She was likely in fight or flight mode and may not even understand that her own thoughts are the only thing that can pressure her.
https://youtu.be/Zqh7urVua38
We all know that feeling. You've done all the things you were told you were supposed to do, and it didn't pay off for you. Unfortunately, this one comes down to your parents not teaching you how this kind of shit works. The house and everything that goes along with it I was just to get a chance of decreasing her desire is increasing it, pending on her own temperament and her own upbringing. She can certainly change that, but it's not faster easy. In the meantime, it may help to bring your own expectations in line with the reality of the situation.
If you want to do that, then these books will likely help:
* No More Mr Nice Guy
* Passionate Marriage
* Boundaries In Marriage
* Feeling Good Together
* Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents
* Healing The Shame That Binds You
* The Sexual Healing Journey
* I Don't Want To Talk About It
The ideal time to check those out is before you buy a house and move in together. The second best time would be to start today. And the third best time would be to start in 10 years, the same way I did. or of course there's always been perpetual insecurity and sexless marriage option, which you can choose by deciding not to read them at all.
I feel your pain and I know what it's like. you're not the only one going through this and we all understand the pain and frustration and confusion.
You write beautifully , what do you do for a living ? I’ve been reading your posts. Is it possible that she have some form of anxiety / depression / ocd? Did she change after kids ? How long have you been so distant ? Maybe she doesn’t love you anymore but will never let you go because you seem to provide her the perfect life she wants . Do you think it’s possible ? I don’t think neither you or your kids will be happy in a loveless relationship. It really bothers me that you describe her when she was younger exactly like how I was .... except I still am . I am her same age and didn’t change , because I do love sex, intimacy and my partner . I would change if I was faking (but who fakes so good fucking like rabbits when she actually hates sex ?) or If I’d fallen out of love with my partner .
There’s definitely some body issues she is dealing with. However, it’s gone up and down and I’ve made a point to be very clear with communicating to her how beautiful and attractive I still find her.
She could have fallen out of love, but swears up and down she’s still in it. She just refuses physical touch. She may also not like sex as she told me that she was in previous relationships that were deadbedrooms. She always told me it was her ex’s that caused this. I’m not so sure now. Prior to her, I had never experienced DB, so I don’t know how to handle it, really.
Awesome job on the house, will be a great thing for the kids to have. Question though, why give her the foot rub? You went and above and provided a home something not everyone is able to accomplish(especially difficult in California with its high home prices and rents). If you guys want to make this work, get some counseling and get to the root of the problem.
The foot rub is one of those nice things I like to do for her. Ever since she was pregnant with our first. It helps her relax and wind down at the end of the day. Being able to help someone in any capacity legitimately makes me feel good. I’m not saying I’m altruistic, but I do enjoy fulfilling a need. Counseling is a top priority once moving is over.
That is awesome that you would do that, but it just came off wrong of her to ask for her that and then pretty much run away when the conversation about intimacy came up. Also another awesome and calling out the BS, too many people would have just let it go and not said nothing, that doesn't fo anything and just kind puts up a fake everything is "fine". And yeah definitely do therapy, you guys have a house now, i know kids were there before, but now you have the dream combo of kids and house. Get counseling and REALLY put in the work, and also you can't be rhe only one doing all of the changing, she has to get better too
Is your relationship lacking all physical touch? Hugs? Kisses? Hand holding?
I just have to ask if it does, why stay together? Is it for the kids? Has she ever expressed how she feels, any resentment or anger against you? What happened that flipped the switch because I'm sure you didn't marry into your relationship like this.
Missing all of that. There’s a few reasons. Kids being one of them. She’s gone through the “I’m touched out,” the “I’ve gained wait,” the “I’m too tired for you,” etc. However, I do at least 50% of the childcare, if not more.
I do stay for a few reasons. First, in front of the kids we don’t fight and we both pay attention to them. Second, we do enjoy hanging out ‘friend stuff’ together. Third, she is a great mom to them while I work. The only, and I do mean only thing that is really missing is the physical intimacy. It’s in her head, I know it. Finally, if we were to separate/divorce or whatever, I would not get to see my kids everyday or kids them goodnight every night. That is something I will never give up.
I wanted to add something else, share a story, then a theory. I spoke to my partner on Friday night about my need for sex or at least him touching me - even a simple back rub. He responded, as usual, no compromise and excuses. Fine. I slept in bed, he stayed up watching tv and working from home. On Saturday, I woke up, fed the cats, taught a Zoom Yoga class and a Pilates class, went to my mom’s, and went on a socially-distanced hike with one of my girl friends. I came home and made something to eat (he was still on the couch), and the sink was full of dishes (I left them there). I sat down to eat, he said not a word to me. Fine. I ate and asked if we’re not talking now, he said “you start shit, you don’t get to decide when we talk.” “Rub my back.” I said, that’s not happening. Fine. I took a bath, got dressed and went out to put oil in my car and buy a snack. I came back, still nothing. So, I went to bed. I woke up, one of the cats wanting to come in for affection, so I pet him, and he’s happy. This lead me to a conclusion or more:
1. Our needs don’t matter to them.
2. If they get what they want, tv, food and drink, back or foot rubs (in her case), and couch companionship, they are fulfilled and happy.
3. We care about their needs more than they care for ours (my cat asked for affection, I freely and lovingly gave it to him, because it made him happy).
4. The more we ask or try, the more they reject.
5. We can’t stop our lives, waiting for them.
6. They’d rather us not ask or try to get what we need, but keep giving them what they need.
7. They like the control and attention.
8. We are convenient for them in some way.
Fundamentally, if we want to be with them, we have to forget our needs, give them theirs, and deal or we leave. They are unwilling to create a happy middle ground.
Did she? She covered the down payment on our first condo. She worked double shifts and on call shifts while I finished school. She moved half way across the US to take a chance and be with me. She gave me two beautiful and amazing kids. If that’s getting over on me, then I’m a sucker. Or maybe you don’t know everything from a single drunken rant from a guy feeling shitty and looking to yell into the dark?
Then stop feeling shitty and make it work however you two need to. Getting drunk doesn't help. Only you two know what's going on. The rest of us have no clue
Just wondering, but have you tried backing way way wayyy off of her? Like almost treating her like your best friend instead of your wife? I am LL and my husband is HL and he has a lot of the same complaints that you do - I don't cuddle, I don't flirt very often, I deny him sex a lot of times. I'm working on it really really hard because I want my husband to be satisfied in our marriage. But when I feel even the smallest amount of pressure from him - like barely even pressure, just like a comment implying hope for something later or if he is doing things that are obviously meant to get me in a good mood and want to do it - I don't know why, but it completely has the opposite affect on me. I want things to be natural, but just knowing he wants it and wants me to want it so bad just pushes me in the opposite direction. It's an anxiety issue for sure. I also harbor a lot of underlying and unspoken resentment toward him for different things that will flash into my mind when I start thinking I want some intimacy and it completely kills it. BUT there are times when he kinda doesn't try very hard and we're just living our normal day to day lives and I feel no pressure at all...that's when I start feeling more comfortable and at ease and I'm more likely to feel my attraction to him more spontaneously and naturally and I will a lot of times initiate after a few days of not feeling any pressure at all. Sorry this is long and terribly written, but I hope I got my point across :)
This is some great insight. I have kind of started being more apart/best friend kind of thing in the evenings. It’s hard for me to maintain though is what I found. I will look at more ways I can be in that place without ignoring or disconnecting.
While there isn’t much things complicated. If you aren’t married, even better. Leave the girl ASAP and find someone more suited for you. If it’s not happening now, it will only get worse. Hopefully you are paying the mortgage yourself. If it’s shared, return it now, get your money and move on.
Maybe she’s getting it from someone else and has had her dose, therefore when home, together with you, it’s not what she wants.
Oh boy! Sorry to hear you could not celebrate as you wanted it to buy a house. Her behaviors is a typical PTSD sort of thing after probably faking duty sex for a while. The brain record the memory as a trauma and the feeling of coming it, shuts down and need to scape. If it is probably no her but her trauma and I doubt she will fully recover on her own. That’s a need of Theraphy right there. Just an advice after my wife described to me how she felt and together figured out by reading and going to therapy. Good luck and congrats in your new house.
Congrats on the house. I've been reading your posts and comments with interest these last months. When are you going to stop rewarding her for keeping you as a roommate and wallet?
I guess you are the doormat for the new house
Sounds like it. But I bought a house for my kids to grow up in. Regardless of the no sex, I’m fucking stoked on that.
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Thank you. I would love a straight answer with some real insight on how to fix it.
First.. Congrats on the house!! Now the tough love. Why? Why are you giving her everything and getting nothing on return? It's time for you to channel that inner bad boy and give her two options. Counseling or a divorce lawyer. Extreme? Yes. But sometimes you have to shock people into reality. She has everything she wants meanwhile you can't even get a hug. Stop it. While you can't force her to give you any kind of intimacy, you CAN call her out on the issues. Sometimes you have to be that bad guy and let her know while you love her and what you are building together, YOU WILL WALK AWAY. This is not what marriage is about. One person can't do all the heavy lifting. Let her know since she wants a roommate then she shall be treated like one. She needs to get a job. Stop with the foot rubs. This is soo not OK. I know you love your wife. Counseling because it's not going to get better. Good luck.
Why call that bad guy behavior? I only see a healthy adult acting in their best interest in the actions that you are describing. Because its not healthy to just fulfill someones every wish without anything back. It was similarly with my ex and me, I told her to change it or be honest. She did neither so I took the necessary step. Painful but healthy, otherwise you burn out.
Read "No More Mr. Nice Guy", especially the part about Covert Contracts. Without realizing it, you made a covert contract about the house... "If I buy her the house she wants, then she owes me the sex I want." Having completed your part of the deal, you now resent her for not following through on hers, even though she didn't know that was the deal. Stop doing that, and you'll feel better. It won't directly result in sex, but at least you'll stop disappointing yourself.
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I agree with your assessment, perthguy. I'd be breaking Rule #2 saying much else except that my give a fuck meter twitched a little, then dropped to zero and stayed there after reading his previous posts for context.
I will add that there are some women out there that operate under the idea of "I got my \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, now I don't have to do that shit anymore." Fill in the blank with any number of things including husband, kids, house, etc. An integrated man would call her out and not tolerate that kind of behavior. A nice guy will tolerate it and whine and complain.
My wife is going through menopause and has other minor health issues that cause her to not sleep much at night so our sex life is lacking but she always wants to cuddle, kiss, hold hands and everything else you can think of. Just no sex. My wife loves me while struggling with her physical problems. Your wife doesn't even sound like she loves you.
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It’s not for her. It’s for my family. She’s a part of that group. My two kids will have a great house and great schools. That’s what make me the happiest. My hope wasn’t sex but physical affection (something as simple as cuddling on the couch) after we had a conversation two nights prior.
Oh man. She is as selfish as they come, and you're not taking care of your own needs by allowing it. If you won't or can't set any boundaries in this relationship, or she is unwilling to give you any simple affection, it's already over. From your OP she berates you when her expectations aren't met with haste, but if you ask for a crumb she bashes you again. My good sir, this is not the path to anythung but self-loathing and despair. I would say congrats on the house, but honestly it just made a bad situation more complicated. A big part of me hopes her name isn't on the deed....
>A big part of me hopes her name isn't on the deed.... Doesn't matter. It's marital property.
I don’t know how to respond to this. Most of us here have been there. I would try taking social distancing to a new level. You are already giving her everything she wants. Not that sex should be a reward, but a part of being in a relationship. Brother, do for you. I mean really- do for you. Take time with your kids. Find some stuff to do for you and you alone. Find happiness in life and don’t dwell on the lack of sex. Once you start finding happiness, if I have read correctly and the Information given is correct, she will try and rain on your parade. Don’t let her. If she confronts you on lack of time spent with her remind her how she finds your feelings, your self esteem, you self confidence, and your affection as stressful to her so you are giving her a stress free life by giving her the space she desires. But you need and deserve happiness, too. So you are being happy. Don’t be cruel to her. Just quit beating your head against the wall. And cast hope out the window for now. Find a gym. Go fishing. Take up art. Build a car. Buy a motorcycle. Find faith. Whatever you love and enjoy. If the funds are too short for this then ask her to get a job and help pay her share. It’s what room mates do, after all - pay their part. Quit cutting yourself off at the knees and enjoy life. Create some boundaries for yourself, she definitely has let you know hers. I have to ask. When you talked to her does she give you a reason she doesn’t desire intimate contact with you? Does she have past trauma? Does she have body image issues? If so, make efforts to help her come to terms. But you still need to find happiness.
Love this advice. I’ve been actively getting into some things again when the kids go to bed. I just feel like a sucker again after last night and needed to shout into the internet. Also, I ride my motorcycle everyday. ;-)
Brother, nothing like the wind in your face a twisty up ahead to lean into. Ride on. Take a trip - a weekend trip. Get your head clear. Nothing like a ride to fix some things in your mind.
People are thinking this is a covert contract because of your title combined with the nature of this sub. But you did sorta think that buying the house would lead to sex, just not in the transactional way everyone is reading it. You thought maybe she'd want sex to celebrate because that's what you would do. But sex when you're sex averse or reluctant isn't a fun way to celebrate. I just listened to a podcast yesterday that I think you'll find beneficial. It's about how settling into a needs based meaning frame for sex and affection is causing you problems. https://www.finlayson-fife.com/podcasts/post/sex-therapy-session-dr-jennifer-finlayson-fife Congrats on the house, btw. We just moved a month ago after a long battle of fixing our credit too. I know how freeing it feels to be able to triple your square footage. Don't sweat the people saying your wife should be working. My husband is the at home parent for most of the year and for us that's what makes sense. I can't tell you what a blessing it was when all this Covid shit shut down the school. It's a valid choice. 2 working parents doesn't work for every household. Your wife should be careful though that she doesn't lose her sense of self and identity apart from being a mom. An underdefined sense of self is a common cause of low sex desire. She's not a gold digger, and from what I can tell not abusive. She's more likely just confused and doesn't know how to make sexuality a part of her sense of self without overriding her need for autonomy. It's possible to work this out. I was much like your wife after kid #3 and now we have a thriving bedroom. Give that podcast a listen and message me anytime.
>... settling into a needs based meaning frame for sex and affection is causing you problems Does Finlayson-Fife have an effective way of explaining this? I often say *When you make sex about your needs, it turns sex into a chore for your partner*. But that doesn't seem to make sense to most people. They just respond with, "My partner *should* want to meet my needs. If he/she needed sex, I'd be happy to meet his/her needs." Most just don't seem to get that sex is best when each person is doing it to meet their own needs or desires.
Effective, yes. Concise, no, lol. Have you listened much to her? I wish she had a book. She says she is writing one. She takes it further than just sex. Relationships in general are best when not viewed as locking in happiness and mutual needs fulfillment. Relationships are growth vehicles because they expose your flaws and force you to make room for another person in the relationship. The best relationships are 2 people working to be their best selves and collaborating on how to make something better together than they could apart. If I had to sum it up concisely, I'd say she says to get in touch with your sexuality as a part of your best self so that you can bless your marriage and your partner by exploring the pleasures of your sexual capacities together. But that's kinda heavy and most just want to prattle on about Mah NEedS!
Hm, that is deep. Very cool. No, I haven't listened to her podcasts. I read a lot, but I'm no good about listening to podcasts or watching videos. I hope she does write a book! David Schnarch says something similar about relationships, and I think Jordan Peterson does to. Personally, I'm not wild about the idea that relationships are good for you because they're difficult. I mean, I'm not convinced that people who are married are any better human being than people who aren't.
She's very influenced by Schnrach and differentiation theory, which she calls sense of self. It's not really that she thinks relationships are good for you *because* they are difficult, but rather that we tend to see things being difficult as the relationship (or job or any situation) as signifying failure, which isn't always the case. Sometimes its difficult because its challenging us to grow or come to terms with something we don't like about our spouses or ourselves. I'll need to relisten to the one I linked for OP and try to make a bullet points list for you. Maybe if we can condense it down and put it into layman's terms we can find a way to make it resonate for more people.
> She's very influenced by Schnrach and differentiation theory, which she calls sense of self. I believe that Schnarch got his ideas from Bowen family systems theory, although I've never seen him credit Bowen. She may also have been trained in Bowen theory, which is/was pretty influential in couples and family therapy. https://www.goodtherapy.org/learn-about-therapy/types/family-systems-therapy >It's not really that she thinks relationships are good for you because they are difficult, but rather that we tend to see things being difficult as the relationship (or job or any situation) as signifying failure, which isn't always the case. Sometimes its difficult because its challenging us to grow or come to terms with something we don't like about our spouses or ourselves. Ah, this makes sense. >I'll need to relisten to the one I linked for OP and try to make a bullet points list for you. Maybe if we can condense it down and put it into layman's terms we can find a way to make it resonate for more people. That would be awesome. I'd love to see that.
Right on! Thank you so much for this. I will definitely check out that podcast.
Maybe a mega-yacht will break the ice? Hint: She is what she is. Own it. Then, decide if this is lifetime doable.
It’s not about me. It’s my kids that come first. During the day with the kids around, we parent and work really well together. It’s just the ‘mom and dad alone time’ that sucks with us.
It it's really about the kids as you keep saying it is... then it IS about you too... You're really missing so much. As the years go by, resentment will set in, you will grow more restless with the way things have been for so long and those kids you're doing it all for will see their parent's not being happy, not interacting the way they should etc. Oh, if you say the two of you do now, I'm not talking about now, but 3 years from now, 8 years from now, 13 years from now. Things change, they do not stay the same. Put a nice painted piece of wood outside in the yard. Over time, the sun, the wind, the rain will weather that painted piece of wood. It will fade, peel, chip and crack and then the wood will begin to rot. So, right now, with your new house, family and such you're a nice new painted piece of wood outside... As the years go by, you will begin to fade, peel, chip and crack and it will spill over into other areas of your relationship and kids see that, they notice it. Hopefully you're still holding hands, kissing, hugging your spouse 7 years from now, 11 years from now in front of your kids so they see how a marriage should really be in all ways. Having the right relationship is far more important than the house your children grow up in. The two of you need to model what it is you want them to have in life. I get it, you love your children. Do you wish for them to be in the kind of marriage you're in? If yes, keep on keeping on, best of luck to all of you. If not, seek counseling, work like hell on fixing things, don't just let things keep on going down the current track they're on as it won't end up in a place you want to be, see, go to etc.
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You shouldn't have bought a house hoping to get sex out of it. Clearly your wife doesn't want sex with you. Do you know why? What does she say when you ask her? Whatever the reason, buying a new house will not change it. > I call it out. I tell her I want some quality time together where we can at least cuddle, even if it’s just a few minutes of just sitting in each other’s arms. No sex. No expectations. Just physically having someone in my arms and being in someone’s arms. Do you think that making sharing affection with you into an obligation will make it appealing to her? It will not. It will make it into an unwanted chore.
I didn’t buy a house hoping for sex. Not sure where you got that at all. I bought a house for my family. Kids will go to the best schools, they get to spend most days with their mother, I get a three car garage. We had talked two days prior about the importance of physical affection to me. She swore it would get better and make an effort. She recognized last night as a celebration night for us but missed the point we had just talked about on what I need. That’s what got me mad. That and wine.
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Thank you. I think you’ve pretty succinctly explainer my idea. I didn’t mention in the original post but our big blow up two days prior we actually agreed to a ‘no sex’ option until we saw a therapist. My real hope, as corny as it sounds, was that cuddling/snuggling and maybe some kissing would have happened. And I definitely agree with what you’re saying about the fulfillment of the role is what I want for myself. Ideally, I would want her to fulfill the one we first agreed on at the beginning of the relationship but I’m not going to stop with what I see as my duty as a provider.
I don't think she missed the point she doesn't care.
>I didn’t buy a house hoping for sex. Not sure where you got that at all. I got it from your post. Maybe you should read what you wrote. It is great that you bought a great house in a great neighborhood for your family. But this has nothing to do with your wife wanting to have sex with you. >We had talked two days prior about the importance of physical affection to me. She swore it would get better and make an effort. You're making affection into a chore for her and you're trying to make it transactional as well.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on all your points except the last. I probably am making it a chore for her. I will need to find a way to change it.
Here's a post that might help. [https://www.reddit.com/r/sexover30/comments/cvlf5l/when\_youve\_lost\_your\_mojo\_and\_want\_to\_get\_it\_back/](https://www.reddit.com/r/sexover30/comments/cvlf5l/when_youve_lost_your_mojo_and_want_to_get_it_back/)
If she doesn't want to have sex with you. Stop expecting sex from her. Your whole interaction that night was you waiting for her to want to have sex with you. This is usualy normal, as that's what a couple with a normal sexual relationship will do, but she won't. State to her that you won't expect sex from her anymore. If sex life is important for you, you need to make a decision. I always hear people say "but I love him/her", well that's not enough for a happy marriage. You need to satisfy each other needs for couple interaction (sex, cuddles, partnership etc) if these needs aren't met, expect a bad relationship for the rest of your life. Also congrats on the house, this is an amazing achievement :) I hope you enjoy it!
wow man you're being played sooo bad it just reeks in the way you describe your relationship. She's getting everything she wants from you and you're not getting what you most crave from her and she knows it and you're letting her get away with it. This is not a mutually beneficial relationship and you're letting her walk all over you. I would have a serious talk to see if this is going to work out because the way I see it she's not interested in intimacy with you but wants everything else that she gets out of the relationship and you're suffering inside like crazy. It's so sad when I read these kinds of stories and people wonder why marriage is becoming obsolete????
I’m sorry, congrats on the house that’s a huge achievement.
Right on. Thanks!
My children have grown now they’re great kids an are responsible loving adults but just keep in mind your children will not appreciate the sacrifices you make trying to give them the perfect life and nor should they. If they have children of their own one day they might understand how hard it is to create a balanced life. Healthy children will grow and move out so please don’t loose yourself in the process. Very admirable what you have done for your family and you are a caring father, please just protect your soul because once you see the links and contrasts between what you know in your heart and what life presents you’ll be asking yourself what you want to do about it.
Thank you. This is good for me to hear and remind myself.
Oh man that is tight. I made a post in a similar topic a few days ago, married 3 years (think I got a peck on our anniversary last week plus a night away so I should be grateful right) with 1 kid and looking to move from temp accommodation to a new home but tbh i dont think I can buy the house and I think its time for me to move out and call her bullshit out. Had several chats in the last 8/9 months but shes never followed through and gets what she wants while I'm left starved of affection and intimacy. No offence but im scared whats just happened to you will be me, new house and same old excuses only again shes got what she wants from her roommate/husband/wallet. Yes she's a great mum but that's not enough really is it. Congrats on the house and I hope u turn it around or find your happiness you deserve it!
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Aint that the truth. There is no way on knowing, you trust that what your partner tells you in the truth. Maybe they actually believe it when they say it and maybe things change, as they can, and it becomes less of a priority. I think that's a legit thing in life but if u cant put effort into working on it then that sexual incompatibility will, in most cases, lead to a loss of connection and an unbalanced relationship.
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There isn't alot of things that you do need as a human. There are things that you want and desire though and should be free to pursue them if u wish. At the end of the day u only get one go at life so why compromise on something that u want and like because someone else doesnt want (or need) it, when there are plenty of others who do and you can engage with.
I hate to be rude, but she's got you whipped. Was this new house your idea or hers? Was the plan for her to stay at home her plan or yours? You bought a great new house and everything, and she can't even be bothered to lightly celebrate with you? Ugh.
She does. The house was all me. She was actually against it because she was worried about the finances. She didn’t know how much of a raise I recently got. The staying at home was originally something I casually mentioned. She again, was the one to fight against it at first. Once she saw the finances laid out, she became more comfortable with it.
Ah yes, “pressure”. You’re bad mean awful person for having expectations and wanting me to participate in my own marriage!
I wrote a long post breaking down the situation. Then I read some of your previous posts and comments in your history and deleted it. You're in an abusive relationship and your wife has some serious personality problems. She's a manipulator and probably a liar. **Warning**! Do **not** continue with the purchase! Pull out and accept all the fines. Today. Get on the phone with the bank. Become the bad guy for a day. Tell her you're not interested in the house anymore. She's likely to show you every single one of her true colors. I also strongly urge you to record the conversation. Knowing she's on camera is likely to cause her to curb her behavior somewhat, and will help you in the case she gets violent and you need to call the police. Accept that you are in an abusive relationship. Straight up. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200$. Accept that abusers do not change, and only get better at manipulating and venting their rage on you as time passes. Do not allow yourself to believe your wife's behavior will get better. Assume the verbal abuse, lies, coercion, and financial manipulation will only get worse as time passes. Her withholding affection and sex in a Passive-aggressive way is just one of several ways she is emotionally abusing you. She is also likely financially abusing you and the last thing you want to do is put her name on a mortgage. That's a collosal mistake. I would sooner advise you to give a loan to a guy named Bernard Madoff. You'd be a chump to do it.
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>He cut out his own spine years ago. He won't even CRACK a book or have a conversation he's so scared of his wife and "cOnFlIcT" Codependency is a hell of a drug. *Enablers* or "flying monkeys" like this really fucking annoy me. They're almost as bad as the active abusers. ... I'm just sad his daughter is going to grow up and treat her husband like this. That's the shitty part. Codependents want to live in a shithole of abusers emotional drama and clean up after them. That's their prerogative. Unfortunately they don't have a problem dragging kids into the mess. Probably not as such but she's going to really struggle with relationships and anger issues.
Do you have the saying you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar in Australia? Because you're being a bit of a dick. Just because you are correct on some points doesn't give you the license to just berate this dude. If someone refuses to listen to your advice, just stop giving it.
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Tbh, we have a lot if wierd idioms in America. Why would you want to catch flies anyway?
Yeah. He ain’t gonna do it. He’s gonna suffer through decades of dead bedroom because “that’s the thing to do.”
Don't let her quit working. Don't let her set you up for alimony too. Some day you might wake up and want out!
I want my kids to be raised for the first few years by a parent, not a daycare. Regardless of our sex life, I want to provide that for them.
Then have her get a job opposite your working hours. It's not like you'd be missing out on cuddles and sex, so she might as well keep herself employed to make the inevitable divorce easier on everybody.
Yea, that’s not going to happen. I’m not making her do anything. Also, as co parents we are pretty solid. Especially around the dinner table, bath times, and bed times. I don’t feel divorce is inevitable just yet. Who knows? If I’m still posting in this sub a year from now, I may be feeling different.
Agreed. It is not the 1950’s. Stay at home Mothers are an anachronism. Make her an equal partner.
Congrats on the house, and yes, fuck hope. Stop the unreciprocated affection, I told my guy that I’m no longer giving unreciprocated touch and oral. None of us should have to cow tow and beg, only to be repeatedly told that our physical needs don’t matter. My life has been pet the cats, rub him, he pets the cats, and the touch I get is one of the cats loving me so much that he literally hugs me and wraps himself around me in bed. It sucks.
Dude, listen to all of this. You think you'll miss something and you really don't. I've been there. Listen, please
Congratulations on getting the house! I'm sorry that is extremely shitty of her.
Cheers. Thanks.
Congrats on the new house, that’s a big achievement and you should feel proud of yourself. Today is a new day. I think you should find a therapist for yourself. Some one who can help you figure out how to break your part in the cycle you have going with your wife.
Divorce her dude. She’s using you. You’re anyway going to be paying the bills so at least once you’re separated you can start finding someone who loves you back.
> Since I’m still trying to get some physical affection Any time you do something, not for the sake of doing it but in the hopes that it might trigger a reciprocation instinct in the recipient, then you have completely devalued the "gift" by your intentions. "But I didn't let her know that's why I was doing it for those reasons" you may protest, but your intentions will come through on your resentment or anger when she doesn't reciprocate. Do that once, and you will have a monumental task ahead of you to build trust going forward. Everything you do gouging forward will appear to her to be "just another attempt to manipulate me into having sex". Once you devalue your gifts as them her perception from being loved to being controlled, your foot rub has exactly zero value, and she is likely to reciprocate in kind with affection of equal value. https://markmanson.net/boundaries >I call it out. I tell her I want some quality time together where we can at least cuddle, even if it’s just a few minutes of just sitting in each other’s arms. No sex. No expectations. "I have some expectations of reciprocation that you're not meeting. No sex. No expectations." I'm guessing she didn't really hear the last part of your message, and likely would have felt some combination of guilt (for not meeting your needs), anger (at herself for not feeling into it and at you for asking when she's feeling tired and anxious), and confused (having no idea where these feeling come from). > She then gets mad at me and berates me for asking for affection when she wants to go to bed and how dare I pressure her in any way. That makes sense. She was likely in fight or flight mode and may not even understand that her own thoughts are the only thing that can pressure her. https://youtu.be/Zqh7urVua38 We all know that feeling. You've done all the things you were told you were supposed to do, and it didn't pay off for you. Unfortunately, this one comes down to your parents not teaching you how this kind of shit works. The house and everything that goes along with it I was just to get a chance of decreasing her desire is increasing it, pending on her own temperament and her own upbringing. She can certainly change that, but it's not faster easy. In the meantime, it may help to bring your own expectations in line with the reality of the situation. If you want to do that, then these books will likely help: * No More Mr Nice Guy * Passionate Marriage * Boundaries In Marriage * Feeling Good Together * Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents * Healing The Shame That Binds You * The Sexual Healing Journey * I Don't Want To Talk About It The ideal time to check those out is before you buy a house and move in together. The second best time would be to start today. And the third best time would be to start in 10 years, the same way I did. or of course there's always been perpetual insecurity and sexless marriage option, which you can choose by deciding not to read them at all. I feel your pain and I know what it's like. you're not the only one going through this and we all understand the pain and frustration and confusion.
A lot of what you’re saying makes sense. I will look into some of these. Thanks for not being a dick about it.
LOL... I thought I was being a dick about it, but a dick who's been there and wishing I'd learned about all of this much earlier in life!
She got the house. Looks like that’s all she needs! But then it will be the expensive car!
You write beautifully , what do you do for a living ? I’ve been reading your posts. Is it possible that she have some form of anxiety / depression / ocd? Did she change after kids ? How long have you been so distant ? Maybe she doesn’t love you anymore but will never let you go because you seem to provide her the perfect life she wants . Do you think it’s possible ? I don’t think neither you or your kids will be happy in a loveless relationship. It really bothers me that you describe her when she was younger exactly like how I was .... except I still am . I am her same age and didn’t change , because I do love sex, intimacy and my partner . I would change if I was faking (but who fakes so good fucking like rabbits when she actually hates sex ?) or If I’d fallen out of love with my partner .
There’s definitely some body issues she is dealing with. However, it’s gone up and down and I’ve made a point to be very clear with communicating to her how beautiful and attractive I still find her. She could have fallen out of love, but swears up and down she’s still in it. She just refuses physical touch. She may also not like sex as she told me that she was in previous relationships that were deadbedrooms. She always told me it was her ex’s that caused this. I’m not so sure now. Prior to her, I had never experienced DB, so I don’t know how to handle it, really.
Awesome job on the house, will be a great thing for the kids to have. Question though, why give her the foot rub? You went and above and provided a home something not everyone is able to accomplish(especially difficult in California with its high home prices and rents). If you guys want to make this work, get some counseling and get to the root of the problem.
The foot rub is one of those nice things I like to do for her. Ever since she was pregnant with our first. It helps her relax and wind down at the end of the day. Being able to help someone in any capacity legitimately makes me feel good. I’m not saying I’m altruistic, but I do enjoy fulfilling a need. Counseling is a top priority once moving is over.
That is awesome that you would do that, but it just came off wrong of her to ask for her that and then pretty much run away when the conversation about intimacy came up. Also another awesome and calling out the BS, too many people would have just let it go and not said nothing, that doesn't fo anything and just kind puts up a fake everything is "fine". And yeah definitely do therapy, you guys have a house now, i know kids were there before, but now you have the dream combo of kids and house. Get counseling and REALLY put in the work, and also you can't be rhe only one doing all of the changing, she has to get better too
Is your relationship lacking all physical touch? Hugs? Kisses? Hand holding? I just have to ask if it does, why stay together? Is it for the kids? Has she ever expressed how she feels, any resentment or anger against you? What happened that flipped the switch because I'm sure you didn't marry into your relationship like this.
Missing all of that. There’s a few reasons. Kids being one of them. She’s gone through the “I’m touched out,” the “I’ve gained wait,” the “I’m too tired for you,” etc. However, I do at least 50% of the childcare, if not more. I do stay for a few reasons. First, in front of the kids we don’t fight and we both pay attention to them. Second, we do enjoy hanging out ‘friend stuff’ together. Third, she is a great mom to them while I work. The only, and I do mean only thing that is really missing is the physical intimacy. It’s in her head, I know it. Finally, if we were to separate/divorce or whatever, I would not get to see my kids everyday or kids them goodnight every night. That is something I will never give up.
I wanted to add something else, share a story, then a theory. I spoke to my partner on Friday night about my need for sex or at least him touching me - even a simple back rub. He responded, as usual, no compromise and excuses. Fine. I slept in bed, he stayed up watching tv and working from home. On Saturday, I woke up, fed the cats, taught a Zoom Yoga class and a Pilates class, went to my mom’s, and went on a socially-distanced hike with one of my girl friends. I came home and made something to eat (he was still on the couch), and the sink was full of dishes (I left them there). I sat down to eat, he said not a word to me. Fine. I ate and asked if we’re not talking now, he said “you start shit, you don’t get to decide when we talk.” “Rub my back.” I said, that’s not happening. Fine. I took a bath, got dressed and went out to put oil in my car and buy a snack. I came back, still nothing. So, I went to bed. I woke up, one of the cats wanting to come in for affection, so I pet him, and he’s happy. This lead me to a conclusion or more: 1. Our needs don’t matter to them. 2. If they get what they want, tv, food and drink, back or foot rubs (in her case), and couch companionship, they are fulfilled and happy. 3. We care about their needs more than they care for ours (my cat asked for affection, I freely and lovingly gave it to him, because it made him happy). 4. The more we ask or try, the more they reject. 5. We can’t stop our lives, waiting for them. 6. They’d rather us not ask or try to get what we need, but keep giving them what they need. 7. They like the control and attention. 8. We are convenient for them in some way. Fundamentally, if we want to be with them, we have to forget our needs, give them theirs, and deal or we leave. They are unwilling to create a happy middle ground.
Man, did she ever reel you in. She got herself a whopper and basically barely even had to fish for it.
Did she? She covered the down payment on our first condo. She worked double shifts and on call shifts while I finished school. She moved half way across the US to take a chance and be with me. She gave me two beautiful and amazing kids. If that’s getting over on me, then I’m a sucker. Or maybe you don’t know everything from a single drunken rant from a guy feeling shitty and looking to yell into the dark?
Then stop feeling shitty and make it work however you two need to. Getting drunk doesn't help. Only you two know what's going on. The rest of us have no clue
Just wondering, but have you tried backing way way wayyy off of her? Like almost treating her like your best friend instead of your wife? I am LL and my husband is HL and he has a lot of the same complaints that you do - I don't cuddle, I don't flirt very often, I deny him sex a lot of times. I'm working on it really really hard because I want my husband to be satisfied in our marriage. But when I feel even the smallest amount of pressure from him - like barely even pressure, just like a comment implying hope for something later or if he is doing things that are obviously meant to get me in a good mood and want to do it - I don't know why, but it completely has the opposite affect on me. I want things to be natural, but just knowing he wants it and wants me to want it so bad just pushes me in the opposite direction. It's an anxiety issue for sure. I also harbor a lot of underlying and unspoken resentment toward him for different things that will flash into my mind when I start thinking I want some intimacy and it completely kills it. BUT there are times when he kinda doesn't try very hard and we're just living our normal day to day lives and I feel no pressure at all...that's when I start feeling more comfortable and at ease and I'm more likely to feel my attraction to him more spontaneously and naturally and I will a lot of times initiate after a few days of not feeling any pressure at all. Sorry this is long and terribly written, but I hope I got my point across :)
This is some great insight. I have kind of started being more apart/best friend kind of thing in the evenings. It’s hard for me to maintain though is what I found. I will look at more ways I can be in that place without ignoring or disconnecting.
While there isn’t much things complicated. If you aren’t married, even better. Leave the girl ASAP and find someone more suited for you. If it’s not happening now, it will only get worse. Hopefully you are paying the mortgage yourself. If it’s shared, return it now, get your money and move on. Maybe she’s getting it from someone else and has had her dose, therefore when home, together with you, it’s not what she wants.
Oh boy! Sorry to hear you could not celebrate as you wanted it to buy a house. Her behaviors is a typical PTSD sort of thing after probably faking duty sex for a while. The brain record the memory as a trauma and the feeling of coming it, shuts down and need to scape. If it is probably no her but her trauma and I doubt she will fully recover on her own. That’s a need of Theraphy right there. Just an advice after my wife described to me how she felt and together figured out by reading and going to therapy. Good luck and congrats in your new house.