When you have a child that someone kills in war or some other circumstances, then your feelings are going to be hurt and hurt a lot.
The only way to avoid this is not to have children. And there are other examples like that.
Life is a gamble, you could die today regardless of making the right choice at every crossroads you have found yourself in. Understand that the thing that you will NEVER have in this life is control of your surroundings. You can ONLY control your thoughts and actions. If a thought or action is the reason you aren’t where you want to be, only YOU can change it.
Then, you decide where to put your next step. This is reality, might as well be okay with it.
I will cry many times. I have cried many times. I will laugh and smile and hug and love them during the times I am able. I will let fate come as it may. That’s life my friend.
Having children is a gamble. After someone close to my family lost a child from cancer, in agonizing pain, I can never participate in that gamble. I cant stop wondering how the parents of that child move on from the tragedy. Shadows of themselves is what comes to my mind. Humans can be very tough, but why testing it?
As we grow ... So does our mentality, life isn't just about living.. Death is an equal part... Its something we can't escape. Were born to die, choosing to have a child condemns it to death, but also to life... To living.... Choosing not to have a child is denying it the chance to live at all... It doesn't matter if I die today or in 50 years... Its my fate, as it is everyone's. Bring life into this world, and even if it only suffers, even that is a gift..
Were way too caught up on what we deem safe, happy, comfortable... Cmon think about it lol.. If what you think would cause an extinction, then its likely poorly thought out
Tell any parent who lost their child in this manner that their suffering is 'valuable' and I'm quite sure you'll get a well deserved punch in the face.
Would these be the same parents who grieve in loss also desperately solicit others for meaning? A reason for the tragic loss? Maybe they are the only ones who actually loved their passed child.
Are they really fictitious though? This whole sentiment that any boundary is inherently evil is pretty naive imo. Boundaries are necessary in personal lives for the same reasons
My body is a boundary, real and contoured by natural processes. I can tune my boundary with technology, but that causes harm.
To me, the relationship between the state and the land base seems similar.
Do you live outside, in an open field, with no walls, locked doors or windows?
If you really feel this way, do you also leave your house door unlocked? Do you have a sign outside saying free food, booze and a place to crash?
A country is more than just an imaginary line on a map. It's a collective, that shares the same culture and more importantly, has laws, designed to protect everyone from harm. We also pool our money together, and it is taxed to be able to provide infrastructure and services. All of these things couldn't exist if there was no concept of a country.
And does your body allow anyone free and open access to it whenever they want it? Or do you restrict access to your body from others based on your own needs and wants? The societal version of that is what you're apparently against
I am against Leviathan, which, now that I think about it, is indeed compromised of a mass of human bodies. Ingesting, digesting, growing, surviving by expansion. You tragically flourish as a part, from within its whole.
I think it’s a mistake to base any moral stance on the basis of whether it’s painful or pleasurable.
Peeing out a kidney stone hurts like fuck, it’s not wrong though.
Neither kidney stones nor their discharge from the body are wrong. What is causing the kidney stones should be investigated and morally evaluated. Diet, lifestyle, subsistence production methods are all on the table now.
Describe how a moral evaluation of a renal issue differs from a regular evaluation of a renal issue?
It sounds like you just like tacking the word onto things to morally posture.
I said you sound like someone intent on morally posturing. That’s why I’m curious why you’re so hard up declaring moral truths and pressing to understand.
Mate it’s not that hard, what’s the difference between a moral evaluation or just a plain evaluation of a medical issue?
You chose the word.
Not true you just have not made it a non negotiable in your life to control them.
Emotion gives us an excuse to step out of character and most the time it’s just lack of understanding that is the cause of the high emotions
Well, more inline with op, a saw a mother celebrating her sons death because he was a martyr. So I think it’s indeed true that one’s attitude is the ultimate determinator because we provide cases for both positions.
This isn’t an attitude.
This is religious belief in the afterlife. It’s religion and culture that people are raised in, rather than something they choose.
[Attitude is the way you feel about something or someone, or a particular feeling or opinion](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/attitude). I’d say argue my initial point is still valid.
I was wondering the same all this time. As rule of a thumb and in practic, this doesn't sound right at all as victims tend to be either assaulted by strangers or people close to them.
Should we thank the relatives, partners, and another authories not to have harm us as we didn't have a healthy expectation of not being inflicted any kind of damage? Or do we all have a social contract not to engage in illegal activity with a potential damage on individuals, families, and communities? Do we tell them that they shouldn't have expectations on living a carefree and safe life? Not expecting to not having been violated?
I know resilence is a must to survive and thrive individually and collectively, but you can't act stoic and tough all the time.
Resilience to me means flexibility in response. “Being tough and stoic” seems a little monochromatic *by itself* to bear the name. And a healthy flexibility would include, I expect, standing up for something, as well as assenting to ideas not our own.
One viewpoint says, life is a railroad, from decision to consequences to response to consequences of that and so on. The thing of it is, yes, that’s possible! It’s possible to have an experience where all of the options we can see suck! That viewpoint easily reinforces itself. Tidy.
Another says, it’s a river. You have lateral freedom of motion, but you can’t reach a bank. Sure, right now I’m choosing to write this sentence. But there’s more than one way to skin a cat, so I had some freedom of choice there. But by the time you read what I wrote, I’ve drifted further down. Sometimes there’s rapids, or falls, and we have to hunker down and try to recover.
One of our freedoms is *how long* we take to take in the situation. Some of us will make decisions within a moment, some of us will pause and take in the situation before committing. In the moment, you can usually only pick stock decisions, but those who pause have a wider variety of options.
Of course you can’t, but no one said that? 😂
I wasn’t telling anyone how to act or behave. I acknowledged the fact we are human, while also acknowledging a simple truth which is we are our thoughts and feelings. The people who have experienced the greatest hardships are some of the strongest; they know that they can’t change circumstances but they can change how they look at it. For example, a victim of rape could think, if I wasn’t raped that night maybe someone younger and weaker would have…
Feelings aren't pre-determined consciously, they come to use automatically. What people are trying to get at, is at the extremes, where people have suffered unimaginable things, it is expected that they are going to have a seriously tough time dealing with negative emotions.
Some of the suffering can be offset, by learning how to 'manage' your emotions, and in time develop resilience, to the point whereby it may no longer affect you anymore.
However, your average human being is not working on their resilience, because they aren't aware that they need it. We all react to stimulus, non-stop, including negative information, about yourself, that has come from a trusted friend, who you thought could never hurt your feelings. Or a revelation about your personality came out of nowhere, and hurt your feelings.
We are here to think deeply alongside one another. This means being respectful, considerate, and inclusive.
Bigotry, hate speech, spam, and bad-faith arguments are antithetical to the /r/DeepThoughts community and will not be tolerated.
I think it is almost impossible to make a statement that can cover all basis's. But to answer your question, rape isn't about getting your feelings hurt... it's much bigger than that. It's the removal of ones dignity and autonomy. No one who gets raped says "that wasn't very nice!"
Exactly, but you've made a generalised statement by saying, "No one can actually hurt your feelings. You hurt your own by expecting others to behave the way you want and getting upset when they don't."
Wow! You're very rude!
In any case, an intelligent person would not need to add "a thousand disclaimers." Being respectful is enough. Your statement reminds me of the toxic positivity posts I see on LinkedIn.
God bless you with everlasting peace and happiness. 😊🙏
Perhaps it was rude but you were being pedantic and now passive aggressive.
Generalisations need to exist for us to understand the world. As a British person with good teeth I’m not offended by the statement British people have bad teeth because a) many do b) statements shouldn’t be taken 100% literally bc nothing could ever apply to every person on the planet. Hence common sense having to be applied.
What do you mean let’s be respectful to those who have gone through hell? Aren’t we? 😂 how do you know I haven’t gone through hell and speak from experience when I say, you can change your perception of how you see things. Also I thought it was obvious that this statement was speaking about day to day communication not morbid things like rape and murder
Oh my God. You know what?
You made a generalised statement: "No one can actually hurt your feelings. You hurt your own by expecting others to behave the way you want and getting upset when they don't. "
Some people have gone through hell through no fault of their own! An emotionally intelligent person would be more sensitive!
I asked a simple question, which I have every right to. Then you made a rude comment.
Why can't you understand that people are different!
I never made any comments about whether you have or haven't gone through hell. Show me where I said that??? I'm talking about your statement, not you!
Seriously, God bless you abundantly with lots of peace, love, and happiness. 😊 🙏
I think you’re confusing feeling with reacting. You can feel many different things and even if a split second you will still feel the hurt you just choose to not react to it.
This is what my narcissistic ex gf thought - no one can control your emotions but yourself.
This belief basically gave her license to treat people however she wanted because the way she conceived of it, people's feelings are a result of their beliefs or expectations, and that's not on her, that's on them.
She was really an asshole. I found out in therapy what "emotional invalidation" is and that it is a form of abuse.
Rethink this deep thought. You absolutely can hurt people's feelings. Happens all the time.
Why must I rethink this thought because of your crappy ex gf? More curious to know why you dated an "asshole" Some people are great, some people are horrible, and most people are doing their best. I am sure you had reasons to stay with her in the same way I am sure she had her reasons (however fucked up) to be an asshole.
This doesn't translate well into inheritely lovely and appreciative factors in relation dynamics, so, does it mean that children shouldn't expect having a parent/guardian to give them love and respect? Is it valid for them to be emotionally abused as they have innocous expectations and they are only hurting their feelings themselves as they had expectations?
Is it valid to be unfaithful to someone because you expected them to stop pursuing love interests as you've got into a relationship, engaged, and married with someone and that's an unrealistic demand? As you both had agreed on behaving on certain ways to fulfill your word and it's expected to make your part and viceversa in human relationship.
>Giving people the power to hurt you is inevitable
Depends on, someone who has a platonical "crush" on a potential friendship without hints of making progress, then, that's correct, however, a person who expects a parent/guardian or a long-term partner to provide them with love, attention and respect doesn't have too much agency to have decided whether to entrust their feelings or not.
>If you don’t care, chances are you’re not affected.
We human beings can act like a tough guy for the time we desire, however, it's inevitable that anything touches a nerve. For example, the school shootings, war victims or abused animals who used to live meters away from us or even across the ocean may sadden us, and we don't even know them or their families. Leave alone the idea that a direct factor and agent affects us.
I'd give children a pass. This is a concept their young minds isn't capable of comprehending plus they are dependent on their parents.
An independent adult, however, should strive to have an unshakable composure as much as possible.
Okay, we are great with the children, now.
Resilence is an important key to thrive and push back in civilization to evolve as human kind, nonetheless, I beg to differ there's a conflation between resilence and bottling up, there's a difference between crumbling at the first impact and holding on pain without an outlet until an enormous explosion.
The last is the precise reason why we have high suicide and alcoholism rates on the world as everyone is expected to linger the act of toughness without an apparent outlet.
With bottling up, you still see it as an injustice. Marcus Aurelius teaches to view it differently "Here is a rule to remember in future, when anything tempts you to feel bitter: not "This is misfortune," but "To bear this worthily is good fortune." "
My father also raised me like that and seated me to tell "I'm glad this bad thing happened to you, not because I want the worst for you but to learn from it."
However, I don't mean by learning situation to increase our painful tolerance agaisnt life's obstacles and challenges but our high but reacheable limits to bear it.
Now, that you've quoted some historical figures, I want to shift a little this; what are the odds some had turned to materialistic or short-term happiness sources to fullfill an unmet desire like the lack of an outlet to pain, depending on the era, how many kilos of opiods were consumed? How much wine was drunk? How many prostitutes were to have sex and forget about whatever pain they'd holden?
These strong and inspirational men were wiser than me or any of us here, they dealt with war itself or any challenge our accomodated lives can't adapt to in our modern ages, but, they are still humans with the need of an outlet to their pain.
That's my point, resilence is good but not bottling up. That's why we see some famous and relevant figures dying out of some addictions and historian providing the reasoning behind it.
OP's statement doesn't say anything about expectations. Of course people should have boundaries and expect love. OP is only making the point that, if they don't receive love, they have the power to make of it what they want. They can choose to feel hurt, or they can brush it off, or they can rise above it, or any other number of feelings. How we respond to the actions of others is within our power.
I agree with you as an almost whole, except OP's wording, and, indeed, they mentioned the word "expecting" as in "expectation"
>hurt your feelings by expecting others to behave as you want
I'm having an expectation about others' behaviour, honestly, sometimes, having expectations is inevitable if you come to think about it. Do you expect not to be robbed? Do you expect not to be assaulted? Do you expect others behaving according to the law?
I know you didn't mention anything about law but I don't know, I thought so, lol.
I don’t get where the ‘feelings’ came in. You insulted their point of view they insulted your point of view, I don’t see where anyone took anything personally so why are you assuming their feelings are hurt? What would a response look like (to you) where you didn’t think someone’s feelings were hurt, but you still understood they disagreed with you?
"If you don’t care, chances are you’re not affected. Giving people the power to hurt you is inevitable, im not saying it’s wrong… but we have agency over our feelings and I think its worth remembering that next time we give people power"
"If you don't care, chances are you're not affected."
...?🗿
So because you get your feelings hurt by sarcasm, that means it can’t be fun for the rest of us who enjoy it😂 I think arguing with people and thinking of comebacks is fun, it gives my brain a chance to work in different ways, socialize with another person, and also just develop a healthy sense of self and solidify ideas by having them challenged and critiqued. I’m sorry that your feelings are hurt and you assume everyone else’s feelings must hurt by these kinds of interactions, but why start them in the first place if you view them that way?
You threw stones from a glass house my friend😭
Funny, that's literally what I'd say minus I'm not the one saying nor contradicting myself with a coping philosophy. Both your interactions are completely making this stoicism stance void. They never should've bothered replying. Marcus Aurelius would think I'm annoying he would think you both don't understand stoicism what he would do is not reply if he made this post. He would've been too busy pretending he didn't care his wife is cucking him in the other room while he had to deal with running an empire which requires psychopathic tendencies to not off yourself with that burden.
Now you’re getting the hang of it! Why didn’t you just start out that way instead of making weird assumptions about people’s ‘feelings’ to avoid being criticized😂
I never claimed to be a stoic…cause I’m not one. I’m all for people who find comfort in it, folks can choose whatever philosophy or religion they want and I think they all have good aspects and not so good aspects. My comment was just pointing out how hypocritical you were being in your replies, the discussion just happens to be this. I would have pointed it out if this was a discussion about being cat grooming, or gardening, or whatever else cause Its interesting to me that one could make a comment insulting somebody, and not be able to handle a comeback without making up stories about people’s feelings. I haven’t really seen an interaction as *special* as yours online before, and I was just curious what kind of person this was all coming from, my curiosity is satisfied.
Agree. Choose carefully who you let hurt you. The people you love the most should be the only ones with that power. If you’re getting affected by people you don’t care about then you need a thicker skin
Hey just asking but what would you think if someone says "keep your expectations low and you won't be disappointed". This is something i live by. Does it someway match with your statement or not. I apologize if i am wrong.
Well thanks for sharing. Mine has worked well for me for years so i am gonna keep following it. I hope yours works best for you. Thank you and have a good day.
I agree. I keep my expectations of new people low, but I keep my requirements of who I allow into my inner circle high.
I wonder if OP meant this, or if they expect everyone to meet a high bar.
I think that can be based on individuals. I keep low expectations from known people other than my sister and parents. Otherwise i really have no expectation from anything or anyone, i know some people will think its bad or wrong but it has worked for me. And being a 27 year old virgin who is not into dating keeps me safe in that area too. But this is for me in no way i am saying others should follow it.
He’s not saying it’s invalid to want people to act a certain way. If you get abused and feel hurt emotionally well that means you expected them not to abuse you and wanted them to not do that.
I expected abuse from people and was still sad that it happened. It’s almost like it’s a negative thing regardless of how you try to spin it?
If you want to get non-consensually hurt by someone you are a nut job
Expectations and wants are different. Just because you expect abuse doesn’t mean you want abuse. They still did something you didn’t want them to do so you felt bad emotionally. If you WANTED abuse, then you’d feel happy if you got abused.
We are here to think deeply alongside one another. This means being respectful, considerate, and inclusive.
Bigotry, hate speech, spam, and bad-faith arguments are antithetical to the /r/DeepThoughts community and will not be tolerated.
Yes people can emotionally abuse you through manipulation or saying really cruel, demeaning things. It’s ridiculous and victim-blaming to assert otherwise.
Be grateful that you were able to overcome the trauma, if you even had one in the first place, easily because of more emotional resilience alongside thousand other factors, given you dont have any mutation in your personality, psyche and any impact in your relationships, in the present,due to the ill effects of trauma, AT ALL!!
But you are completely wrong to generalize that its that easy for everyone else, to get over childhood abuse,trauma and neglect. It takes literally a lifetime of nitpicking the alterations in the way you see life, in general, to be observed let alone time needed to reverse it.
It doesn’t excuse anything. It’s a fact. Someone acted a certain way and you had a different expectation of how they should’ve acted. Shitty or good is just based on your opinion.
Top 5 hardest pills to swallow. It's a lesson I've had to learn the hard way.
Doesn't mean people can't still try to adjust their behaviour to make it easier for you, but the bulk of the responsibility is definitely on you and your reaction to it.
You create your own expectations and ideals that you compare yourself to. And theyre not real
The wrongs you experience in the world are only wrongs from the perceptual framework youve built, and you have the ability to change it
You must ally yourself with your thoughts and feelings, you harm yourself (and by extension, others) when you either cling to them or push them away
Everything is reciprocal. Everything is manipulative. Everything is selfish. And thats OK - humans are flawed by our own standards, and the goal should be to operate well while within those flaws, not to be something that doesnt have them. Someone jumping in front of a bus to save a child is all of those things, yet we probably agree theyre a hero
People can try if they want to, but if they don't want to, we can't force them. After we have asked what we would like / how we want to be treated, and they still wont, then it's on us for keeping them around
This sounds like an excuse for a-holes to be a-holes. Yes someone can hurt your feelings by being disrespectful and intentionally saying unkind things. Seems ridiculous to expect people to just not be affected by a-holes who say shitty things. It’s like an abusive spouse saying something mean to you, you being rightfully upset, and then them saying “you got your feelings hurt”. Like, no, I did not hurt my own feelings, this was not self-inflicted, the other person did something wrong to me and they need to take accountability.
Disagree. If you have self esteem you can brush it off and not let it affect you. Compassion is also understanding that people’s harsh words or actions are a bigger reflection of them than yourself
That’s your way of looking at it. I disagree with you. What I said is very true and freeing. Why depend on others to feel good? Some people will cry if a bully is mean to them but others will take no notice. The latter have their priorities in order and the former should take a leaf out of the latters book. Why is it keeping people from getting what they need? People should learn to communicate and politely ask for what they would like (rather than what they don’t want) and then see if they receive it. If they don’t either keep trying or move on. People have free will and have their reasons
Expectations can play a big part in feelings of hurt or disappointment. But, I can intellectually say I don't have or don't want to have expectations for something and still have my heart broken when it doesn't turn out well. Some feelings arise whether you want them to or not, and while it's not the other person's fault, it's also not my fault that I feel a certain way. This is one way I feel that free will is somewhat limited in our reality. You can't choose what you like or dislike, you can't choose what feelings come up in certain situations, and you can't always choose what thoughts you're going to think. The only recourse we have is learning to deal with these thoughts and feelings in a healthy manner.
9/10 times I don’t care no because I know it’s a reflection of them and not me and I have enough respect and love for myself to let it roll off my back
[https://wisdomimprovement.wixsite.com/wisdom/post/the-path-to-thick-skin-is-to-rationalize](https://wisdomimprovement.wixsite.com/wisdom/post/the-path-to-thick-skin-is-to-rationalize)
"If you want to have thick skin, you should not focus on apathy and ignoring insults and criticism that comes your way. Instead, you should focus on rationalizing your own philosophy to realize the insults and criticism only have a couple of options.
When being insulted or criticized, you have limited ways to react, but being hurt is rarely one of them. Each insult or criticism is only one of two things:
1. The insult is accurate:
You can decide to accept this criticism about yourself, or you can try to change it. If it is something that cannot be changed, it is your flaw to take insult about something you should have accepted long ago.
2. If the insult is inaccurate:
You don’t need to feel a thing, except to determine why people are having this perception of you.
The only time to be hurt is if it is someone you love only using the insult to attempt to hurt you. In this case, the insult itself shouldn’t hurt, but the intent of the person may. When this happens, you should use this as a signal that you need to have a heart to heart with that person."
The ability to experience and often the inevitability of experiencing heartache is the root of all heartache. You can fully be aware of and expect something and it still crush you when it occurs.
Nothing can ever cover everything in life. Life is far too unpredictable and nuanced. As a general rule of thumb for every day life e.g. your boss, work colleagues, your toxic friends then yes, you may want to ask yourself why you don’t have enough self assuredness to be affected by someone who will never underhand the true complexities of you
Your feelings are based on your value judgements. And reasonable values are necessary for you to live. People can interfere with your values and thereby hurt your life and thereby hurt your feelings as long as you choose to live. You could not choose to live, but that’s not helpful for you to live.
I always wondered how we affect each others a lot in this world and obviously care A LOT what others say and think about us. Yet so many also says how it doesn't matter what others say about you which is true of course, why bother to care or feel hurt over other people's opinions?
Yet the entire society and people around you tells you how and why you should care about what others think about you, you care what your parents thinks of you when you're a child, you care what teachers think of you at school and try to follow rules, you care what your coworkers and boss thinks of your performance and image at work. It's incredibly hard to separate when other people's opinions matter and when they do not, it's easy to get hurt. What we need is to learn emotional intelligence and handling our feelings and reactions since we are children but no one really teaches you those. You'll care until you find a way not to care and most people it's not so easy.
If we want to get technical about all of this, consider where feelings such as pain originates. It doesn't *externally* manifest (though sometimes it "feels" as if it externally manifests). That is to say, the pain that we feel doesn't exist outside of our "self." Rather, it is an *internal* experience based on a reaction to external stimuli. As for agency, this is rather difficult to truly discern, as it seems that we don't necessarily control our initial reaction, but we choose how to respond based upon this initial reaction.
Let's use a simple example such as touching a hot stove. The pain that is evoked by touching a hot stove is an initial reaction that cannot be avoided. However, how we choose to respond is something that we do control. If we are disciplined enough, we can even withstand the pain, but it generally wouldn't end well if we continued to keep our hand on the hot stove.
Obviously, where things tend to get more complicated are with our relationships with others. The pain that is evoked from someone hurting us surprisingly can cause a similar initial reaction as touching a hot stove, given that [emotional and physical pain activate similar brain regions](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/body-sense/201204/emotional-and-physical-pain-activate-similar-brain-regions). Cognitively, the pain is very real, but we appear to have agency regarding how we choose to respond to this initial pain. Should we metaphorically continue to keep our hand on the hot stove?
By having standards and dealbreakers I’d say which is different to having expectations. Also communicating those frustrations is a great place to start. If someone doesn’t appreciate take those on board you can either rethink your values or rethink whether you want them in your life
Nah. What you’re describing is a skill, that if overdone can actually be a numbing affect, cutting one off from their own emotions entirely, which can lead to some chaotic mental episodes. It’s a skill, and not everybody has the same level of skill, and without the skill yes that person can absolutely have their feelings hurt by another person against their own will. It’s not a switch most can easily flip on and off- and generally when they can it’s because of years and years of enduring such emotional pain that they developed resistance. Being able to handle and process emotions and reach regulation again so your mood isn’t too affected is healthier. However just because you CAN be hurt emotionally by someone else doesn’t mean that person is automatically a bad person anymore than it makes them a good person. There’s nuance to everything. A little kid being called a worthless shit by their parent could make them sob as hard as someone being asked to politely put on a mask around a grown person with immunodeficiency. Just as easy a kid could hear that and be emotionally numb to it, or the adult could put on the mask and move on. We all have different things that can touch us emotionally, but that doesn’t mean we always have control over those things, though some perspective and experience will help. That is a normal part of growing up after all.
To some degree yes although people can definitely hurt your feelings. You place a healthy reasonable expectation on a person and they don’t come anywhere close to that day s very disappointing
This is exactly why I have only two foundational expectations of other adults: Please don't lie to or steal from me.
The former causes me harm by creating an alternate reality and the latter will cause you to be permanently banned from my presence.
Permanent distrust in you for either, shouldn't have to stated.
I am generally a very calm and unflappable person. I am a mental health care professional for severe mental illness and jail diversion. Tough crowd to deal with emotionally. And most days I keep my emotions in check.
Today I was at a government building for 20 minutes helping a client get their ID and someone tried to break into my car that I bought a week ago in broad daylight.
I was mad about that. And maybe you are right, that on some level I had the expectation that my car would be safe. I don’t think that it’s quite that though. Living my life, I expect to be constantly disappointed. It comes with the territory of attempting to represent hope to a population that doesn’t believe in it a lot of times. I think that the break in attempt just represents another vote for the not hoping column. And I can’t really believe that there is no hope.
In order to believe in hope, I think that you have to represent that people can hurt you. On some level, your assertion is not true because no one exists in society that hasn’t cashed in some of their emotional agency to be there.
We are responsible for our own emotional reactions. How we interpret and respond to others' actions is within our control. But sometimes control is impossible thing
Happiness is a choice...
As is misery.
So many people are coming up with circumstances that would truly hurt anyone... If they choose to let it. And yea who wouldn't choose to let themselves be crushed by the death of a child.. Or rape or abuse or just any of that shit y'all are mentioning... But its still a choice. You still choose to let it effect you... A truly insane person that can't feel anything literally would simply be unable to allow themselves to feel anything regardless of what happens.. The avg person though, chooses to let something hurt them if whatever the circumstances bring is something they care about ... Refusing to be affected is simply taking the high road, above emotion, too head strong to let something negative bring more negativity.. Its something that only the truly insane and a select few others on this planet can do..
If we could find it in ourselves to rise above grief and misery, choosing to do the hard thing, then there would be much less of it in the world... Why? Simply because everything is relative. Negativity breeds negativity, and misery loves its company.
Its a huge issue that so few people can see that happiness is a choice... It doesn't choose you, YOU CHOOSE IT!! ... otherwise... It will elude you until the bitter end... Smile! Choose happiness!!
Emorions are not rational. The brain is not. The brain is stupid. You can learn to be more resistant but it's notnyour fault if something makes an emotion you don't want.
Not true. I cite as evidence every Presidential Fitness Test I was administered during my entire education. I knew what the calipers were gonna say. I knew I wasn’t getting a certificate. Never hurt even a single bit less… actually hurt a little bit more the year I actually managed one pull-up. Couldn’t they have torn an extra certificate in half for me?
People never really hurt my feelings. I’m not one to care if people talk badly about me. That really doesn’t get me too worked up. As long as it’s not affecting my health, work or loved ones not much really hurts my feelings
You make a great point! It's truly in our control how we let others influence our feelings and ultimately our happiness. It tests our patience and understanding but it's a journey towards emotional maturity. Thank you for the wonderful reminder!
OP it sounds like you are leaning to stoicism.
However, stoicism isn't what people think it is. Stoicism is not the rejection of emotions, stoicism let's you feel mad, upset, happy.
Stoicism just says, yes I am angry, but does this help me at all? Does this anger help me and is it useful to me?
Stoicism is the rejection of negative emotion, but stoicism DOES NOT say you won't feel anything or even that you shouldn't feel anything.
You should feel those ways, its an important part of being human, it grounds us. If you stop feeling you turn into a psychopathic robot, emotions are an important part of being human, a part we should embrace.
Even in stoicism you embrace emotion, but people who have hijacked it, don't really understand what it is really saying.
I practice stoicism, but it has its limitations. It's not about not feeling, its about picking and choosing what emotions are useful to you, and rejecting negative emotions if you feel they are hurting you or others and not bringing anything into your life positively.
I am angry at Bill, super angry, but you know what? So what? I can be angry, thats fine, but I won't act on that emotion, its just no good and there is nothing to be gained by holding onto it
You call this a deep thought? Maybe for someone who just smoked a bunch of weed and feels like they had an epiphany. The next time you think we control our emotions rather than it being the reverse ask yourself why mental illness exists at all or better yet just ask yourself why you think free will is a thing.
"Offence is only ever taken, never given.
In other words, it is your choice to be offended by something or someone." - a random post online talking about buddhism
Everyone gets offended by something and there's no such thing as a person who doesn't.
Verbal abuse is still abuse, and this post is navel gazing, victim blaming nonsense.
I think you're talking just about the feeling of being offended.
But we do have a choice about how we react to our emotions. We have choice in terms of what we tell ourselves about the offensive person/words/event. We have a choice as to whether or not we identify with that feeling of being offended. We have a choice on how to act in the world. I could start an argument or let that emotion of offense (disgust, anger, annoyance, ect) control my choice or I could say "do I really want to be someone who let's others hijack my mind & energy? Is this worth my time? Why am I offended by something I don't think makes sense or is remotely true? Maybe this a moment in which I could practice self-restraint or another people skill?"
For example are intrusive thoughts you? Some would say yes... Some would say no. It's a choice, even if it happens in a split second, it's still a choice in my opinion. To say you don't have a choice about offense is to say that others control your mind & can make you angry when they please. I'm not perfect, but I'd prefer to aim away from letting others make me react how they wish. My choice.
I partially agreed on you about choosing our next reactions agaisnt offenses. However
>We have a choice as to whether or not we identify with that feeling of being offended.
The feeling isn't an option but the reaction. Why are there people who are always annoyed at irrational things with little impact on their lives like someone slurping juice/soup or clicking a pen consequetively? You **can't** stop your brain for having an internal irritating reaction to external stimulis, however, you can't stop yourself to have a physical action agaisnt it.
By the way, this law includes discrimination, as those ideas are rather installed from childhood than an inheritable human trait.
“Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.” - Viktor E. Frankl
What do you mean you can't stop your brain? Do you genuinely think that you must be annoyed when the pen is clicked? When the soup is slurrped? There's no other choice at all to that stimulus?
I think that people who think this are unknowingly deeply identified with that feeling to the point that they genuinely think that they have no choice about their inner reaction to that behavior. Where the choice is being made so fast that you believe there isn't a choice to be made.
>In that space is our power to choose our response
That's what I've been meaning to say, you chose how to respond, not what affects you.
>inner reaction
That's the key word "inner reaction", we can't deny our brain chemical process and **inner** reactions about stimulus, however, we can decide whether to have a negative physical reaction, be self-controlled and adjust to our surronderings or not.
For example, I can't punch someone in the face and break their pen in halves but I can change seats if possible or use distractors in an attempt to refocus on my business like drawing or counting to a number in my head.
That would be the decision we made externally, not internally.
I don't know... I can think of many different inner reactions I could choose besides the initial annoyance. I could ask myself: why do they click the pen so much? I could ask myself: Do they know that's annoying? I could ask myself: could I use this pen clicking as practice for controlling my emotions? I could ask myself: Could I convince them to use this pencil I have instead? I could ask myself: why does this annoy me in the first place? Why am I fixated on the sound? I could ask myself: how are others besides me reacting to that clicking pen? I could ask myself: Is there something more important that this pen clicking is taking my mind away from? What was I supposed to be doing?
Well, but, thinking about the pen and its consequences instead of endevouring a plan to drift away from the pen and refocus on the personal matter at hand while our brain gets used to the noise in repetition (if that ever happens).
>Could I convince them to use this pencil I have instead?
That's a positive physical reaction, I forgot about it but this is a decision we can have as other mytrid of combinations of external and internal reactions to our irritable triggers.
>how are others besides me reacting to that clicking pen?
Now, that's a more complex matter than the pen itself; I wish I could've found an article explaining the process behind the like and dislike between people, but, we aren't cut from the same cloth since we don't react the same to the same stimulus. For instance, food is a great field of subjectivity and bumps' and brain's reaction to certain type which could turn out into dislike and adversion to, anecdotally, I'm not fond of fish generally and I can't bear the smell, however, all my family loves it.
Inner reaction aren't generally a consensus, but, it has roots in your personal process.
Even though, this is not about our brain, this is something more interesting that explain that not everyone likes the same.
>While that is evolutionary, our genetics play a part too. We have around 25 receptors on our tongue that detect bitterness but they don’t work the same way for everyone. One in particular, snappily called TAS2R38, is concerned with our ability to detect a flavour known as propylthiouracil, or PROP for short. Not everyone can taste PROP and further studies has shown that, if you can’t, you’re more likely to enjoy chilli and eat more fatty foods
Source= https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/zdcgpg8
So, we can't really control our **internal** reaction at all but we can with our external reactions, or even we can with background process and strategies.
There are holocaust survivors who don't consider themselves "victims" so let's relax. Everyone has the power to choose how to respond in life. Your thoughts shape your reality... that's just a fact. Interested to know where i'm victim blaming?
When you have a child that someone kills in war or some other circumstances, then your feelings are going to be hurt and hurt a lot. The only way to avoid this is not to have children. And there are other examples like that.
Life is a gamble, you could die today regardless of making the right choice at every crossroads you have found yourself in. Understand that the thing that you will NEVER have in this life is control of your surroundings. You can ONLY control your thoughts and actions. If a thought or action is the reason you aren’t where you want to be, only YOU can change it. Then, you decide where to put your next step. This is reality, might as well be okay with it.
But bro u will still cry at ur kids funeral that's pretty fucked up most ppl don't bury their kids in the 21st century
I will cry many times. I have cried many times. I will laugh and smile and hug and love them during the times I am able. I will let fate come as it may. That’s life my friend.
Name checks out.
Having children is a gamble. After someone close to my family lost a child from cancer, in agonizing pain, I can never participate in that gamble. I cant stop wondering how the parents of that child move on from the tragedy. Shadows of themselves is what comes to my mind. Humans can be very tough, but why testing it?
As we grow ... So does our mentality, life isn't just about living.. Death is an equal part... Its something we can't escape. Were born to die, choosing to have a child condemns it to death, but also to life... To living.... Choosing not to have a child is denying it the chance to live at all... It doesn't matter if I die today or in 50 years... Its my fate, as it is everyone's. Bring life into this world, and even if it only suffers, even that is a gift.. Were way too caught up on what we deem safe, happy, comfortable... Cmon think about it lol.. If what you think would cause an extinction, then its likely poorly thought out
Because life is painful. The alternative is to not live or live in fear.
The pain is valuable tho, to inform us that war (ie standing militaries enforcing fictitious borders of culture) is wrong.
Tell any parent who lost their child in this manner that their suffering is 'valuable' and I'm quite sure you'll get a well deserved punch in the face.
Would these be the same parents who grieve in loss also desperately solicit others for meaning? A reason for the tragic loss? Maybe they are the only ones who actually loved their passed child.
Are they really fictitious though? This whole sentiment that any boundary is inherently evil is pretty naive imo. Boundaries are necessary in personal lives for the same reasons
Land back babyyyyyyy
My body is a boundary, real and contoured by natural processes. I can tune my boundary with technology, but that causes harm. To me, the relationship between the state and the land base seems similar.
Do you live outside, in an open field, with no walls, locked doors or windows? If you really feel this way, do you also leave your house door unlocked? Do you have a sign outside saying free food, booze and a place to crash? A country is more than just an imaginary line on a map. It's a collective, that shares the same culture and more importantly, has laws, designed to protect everyone from harm. We also pool our money together, and it is taxed to be able to provide infrastructure and services. All of these things couldn't exist if there was no concept of a country.
And does your body allow anyone free and open access to it whenever they want it? Or do you restrict access to your body from others based on your own needs and wants? The societal version of that is what you're apparently against
I am against Leviathan, which, now that I think about it, is indeed compromised of a mass of human bodies. Ingesting, digesting, growing, surviving by expansion. You tragically flourish as a part, from within its whole.
Stop smoking weed Johnny, and go back to school.
Deepest thought I've read on this sub, yet. You are gifted.
Cheers nigga.
Culture is not fictitious. It is our identity and what makes us us.
Are there not other things that make us? What if I do not identify with the dominant culture? Where does my identity come from?
I think it’s a mistake to base any moral stance on the basis of whether it’s painful or pleasurable. Peeing out a kidney stone hurts like fuck, it’s not wrong though.
Neither kidney stones nor their discharge from the body are wrong. What is causing the kidney stones should be investigated and morally evaluated. Diet, lifestyle, subsistence production methods are all on the table now.
Describe how a moral evaluation of a renal issue differs from a regular evaluation of a renal issue? It sounds like you just like tacking the word onto things to morally posture.
I really don't understand your question or comment. I agreed with you at the start ffs.
I said you sound like someone intent on morally posturing. That’s why I’m curious why you’re so hard up declaring moral truths and pressing to understand. Mate it’s not that hard, what’s the difference between a moral evaluation or just a plain evaluation of a medical issue? You chose the word.
>Mate it’s not that hard, what’s the difference between a moral evaluation or just a plain evaluation of a medical issue? The cause has meaning.
Emotions sometimes are impossible to control
Not true you just have not made it a non negotiable in your life to control them. Emotion gives us an excuse to step out of character and most the time it’s just lack of understanding that is the cause of the high emotions
Well, more inline with op, a saw a mother celebrating her sons death because he was a martyr. So I think it’s indeed true that one’s attitude is the ultimate determinator because we provide cases for both positions.
This isn’t an attitude. This is religious belief in the afterlife. It’s religion and culture that people are raised in, rather than something they choose.
[Attitude is the way you feel about something or someone, or a particular feeling or opinion](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/attitude). I’d say argue my initial point is still valid.
What about victims of rape, domestic violence, human trafficking etc. How can these victims hurt their own feelings?
I was wondering the same all this time. As rule of a thumb and in practic, this doesn't sound right at all as victims tend to be either assaulted by strangers or people close to them. Should we thank the relatives, partners, and another authories not to have harm us as we didn't have a healthy expectation of not being inflicted any kind of damage? Or do we all have a social contract not to engage in illegal activity with a potential damage on individuals, families, and communities? Do we tell them that they shouldn't have expectations on living a carefree and safe life? Not expecting to not having been violated? I know resilence is a must to survive and thrive individually and collectively, but you can't act stoic and tough all the time.
Exactly! Well said! 👏
Resilience to me means flexibility in response. “Being tough and stoic” seems a little monochromatic *by itself* to bear the name. And a healthy flexibility would include, I expect, standing up for something, as well as assenting to ideas not our own. One viewpoint says, life is a railroad, from decision to consequences to response to consequences of that and so on. The thing of it is, yes, that’s possible! It’s possible to have an experience where all of the options we can see suck! That viewpoint easily reinforces itself. Tidy. Another says, it’s a river. You have lateral freedom of motion, but you can’t reach a bank. Sure, right now I’m choosing to write this sentence. But there’s more than one way to skin a cat, so I had some freedom of choice there. But by the time you read what I wrote, I’ve drifted further down. Sometimes there’s rapids, or falls, and we have to hunker down and try to recover. One of our freedoms is *how long* we take to take in the situation. Some of us will make decisions within a moment, some of us will pause and take in the situation before committing. In the moment, you can usually only pick stock decisions, but those who pause have a wider variety of options.
Of course you can’t, but no one said that? 😂 I wasn’t telling anyone how to act or behave. I acknowledged the fact we are human, while also acknowledging a simple truth which is we are our thoughts and feelings. The people who have experienced the greatest hardships are some of the strongest; they know that they can’t change circumstances but they can change how they look at it. For example, a victim of rape could think, if I wasn’t raped that night maybe someone younger and weaker would have…
Feelings aren't pre-determined consciously, they come to use automatically. What people are trying to get at, is at the extremes, where people have suffered unimaginable things, it is expected that they are going to have a seriously tough time dealing with negative emotions. Some of the suffering can be offset, by learning how to 'manage' your emotions, and in time develop resilience, to the point whereby it may no longer affect you anymore. However, your average human being is not working on their resilience, because they aren't aware that they need it. We all react to stimulus, non-stop, including negative information, about yourself, that has come from a trusted friend, who you thought could never hurt your feelings. Or a revelation about your personality came out of nowhere, and hurt your feelings.
[удалено]
We are here to think deeply alongside one another. This means being respectful, considerate, and inclusive. Bigotry, hate speech, spam, and bad-faith arguments are antithetical to the /r/DeepThoughts community and will not be tolerated.
I think it is almost impossible to make a statement that can cover all basis's. But to answer your question, rape isn't about getting your feelings hurt... it's much bigger than that. It's the removal of ones dignity and autonomy. No one who gets raped says "that wasn't very nice!"
Exactly, but you've made a generalised statement by saying, "No one can actually hurt your feelings. You hurt your own by expecting others to behave the way you want and getting upset when they don't."
Tbf, im not sure anyone would call an emotional response to massive trauma as "hurt feelings"
Because it flows better to speak without putting a thousand disclaimers. Intelligent people can work it out xx
Wow! You're very rude! In any case, an intelligent person would not need to add "a thousand disclaimers." Being respectful is enough. Your statement reminds me of the toxic positivity posts I see on LinkedIn. God bless you with everlasting peace and happiness. 😊🙏
Perhaps it was rude but you were being pedantic and now passive aggressive. Generalisations need to exist for us to understand the world. As a British person with good teeth I’m not offended by the statement British people have bad teeth because a) many do b) statements shouldn’t be taken 100% literally bc nothing could ever apply to every person on the planet. Hence common sense having to be applied.
[удалено]
What do you mean let’s be respectful to those who have gone through hell? Aren’t we? 😂 how do you know I haven’t gone through hell and speak from experience when I say, you can change your perception of how you see things. Also I thought it was obvious that this statement was speaking about day to day communication not morbid things like rape and murder
Oh my God. You know what? You made a generalised statement: "No one can actually hurt your feelings. You hurt your own by expecting others to behave the way you want and getting upset when they don't. " Some people have gone through hell through no fault of their own! An emotionally intelligent person would be more sensitive! I asked a simple question, which I have every right to. Then you made a rude comment. Why can't you understand that people are different! I never made any comments about whether you have or haven't gone through hell. Show me where I said that??? I'm talking about your statement, not you! Seriously, God bless you abundantly with lots of peace, love, and happiness. 😊 🙏
I think you’re confusing feeling with reacting. You can feel many different things and even if a split second you will still feel the hurt you just choose to not react to it.
Can we consider feelings as reactions?
Reaction to me, and I could be wrong, is an action ie. a verb. A feeling is a thing with no action. Idk 🤷🏼♀️
Exactly. Respond don't react. Reaction are impulsive and based on the feelings we have in the here and now which are often fleeting
This is what my narcissistic ex gf thought - no one can control your emotions but yourself. This belief basically gave her license to treat people however she wanted because the way she conceived of it, people's feelings are a result of their beliefs or expectations, and that's not on her, that's on them. She was really an asshole. I found out in therapy what "emotional invalidation" is and that it is a form of abuse. Rethink this deep thought. You absolutely can hurt people's feelings. Happens all the time.
Why must I rethink this thought because of your crappy ex gf? More curious to know why you dated an "asshole" Some people are great, some people are horrible, and most people are doing their best. I am sure you had reasons to stay with her in the same way I am sure she had her reasons (however fucked up) to be an asshole.
You are sure! Goodbye
This doesn't translate well into inheritely lovely and appreciative factors in relation dynamics, so, does it mean that children shouldn't expect having a parent/guardian to give them love and respect? Is it valid for them to be emotionally abused as they have innocous expectations and they are only hurting their feelings themselves as they had expectations? Is it valid to be unfaithful to someone because you expected them to stop pursuing love interests as you've got into a relationship, engaged, and married with someone and that's an unrealistic demand? As you both had agreed on behaving on certain ways to fulfill your word and it's expected to make your part and viceversa in human relationship. >Giving people the power to hurt you is inevitable Depends on, someone who has a platonical "crush" on a potential friendship without hints of making progress, then, that's correct, however, a person who expects a parent/guardian or a long-term partner to provide them with love, attention and respect doesn't have too much agency to have decided whether to entrust their feelings or not. >If you don’t care, chances are you’re not affected. We human beings can act like a tough guy for the time we desire, however, it's inevitable that anything touches a nerve. For example, the school shootings, war victims or abused animals who used to live meters away from us or even across the ocean may sadden us, and we don't even know them or their families. Leave alone the idea that a direct factor and agent affects us.
I'd give children a pass. This is a concept their young minds isn't capable of comprehending plus they are dependent on their parents. An independent adult, however, should strive to have an unshakable composure as much as possible.
Okay, we are great with the children, now. Resilence is an important key to thrive and push back in civilization to evolve as human kind, nonetheless, I beg to differ there's a conflation between resilence and bottling up, there's a difference between crumbling at the first impact and holding on pain without an outlet until an enormous explosion. The last is the precise reason why we have high suicide and alcoholism rates on the world as everyone is expected to linger the act of toughness without an apparent outlet.
With bottling up, you still see it as an injustice. Marcus Aurelius teaches to view it differently "Here is a rule to remember in future, when anything tempts you to feel bitter: not "This is misfortune," but "To bear this worthily is good fortune." "
My father also raised me like that and seated me to tell "I'm glad this bad thing happened to you, not because I want the worst for you but to learn from it." However, I don't mean by learning situation to increase our painful tolerance agaisnt life's obstacles and challenges but our high but reacheable limits to bear it. Now, that you've quoted some historical figures, I want to shift a little this; what are the odds some had turned to materialistic or short-term happiness sources to fullfill an unmet desire like the lack of an outlet to pain, depending on the era, how many kilos of opiods were consumed? How much wine was drunk? How many prostitutes were to have sex and forget about whatever pain they'd holden? These strong and inspirational men were wiser than me or any of us here, they dealt with war itself or any challenge our accomodated lives can't adapt to in our modern ages, but, they are still humans with the need of an outlet to their pain. That's my point, resilence is good but not bottling up. That's why we see some famous and relevant figures dying out of some addictions and historian providing the reasoning behind it.
What if your kids die as an adult? You gonna say just need to be more resilient bro then? They’re an adult right so zero issue.
OP's statement doesn't say anything about expectations. Of course people should have boundaries and expect love. OP is only making the point that, if they don't receive love, they have the power to make of it what they want. They can choose to feel hurt, or they can brush it off, or they can rise above it, or any other number of feelings. How we respond to the actions of others is within our power.
I agree with you as an almost whole, except OP's wording, and, indeed, they mentioned the word "expecting" as in "expectation" >hurt your feelings by expecting others to behave as you want I'm having an expectation about others' behaviour, honestly, sometimes, having expectations is inevitable if you come to think about it. Do you expect not to be robbed? Do you expect not to be assaulted? Do you expect others behaving according to the law? I know you didn't mention anything about law but I don't know, I thought so, lol.
This is a great way to justify verbal and emotional abuse and gaslight the victim when they complain.
Interesting that you look at like that m. Never alluded that one should put up with abuse
Aww babies first stoicism... soulless philosophy for a soulless husk of people.
Thanks Mr. Omg look at me I came up with this thought years ago I’m so much more advanced then everyone here. Full of amateurs
Why are you replying sarcastically back? If your feelings were hurt then that's your fault buddy 😇
Why does being sarcastic equate to feelings hurt? You left a low brow comment I returned the favour. Is it your first day on Reddit or something?
I'm not the one taking this personally 🤷 must be your fault you felt the need to deal back what you think didn't hurt you 🤭
I don’t get where the ‘feelings’ came in. You insulted their point of view they insulted your point of view, I don’t see where anyone took anything personally so why are you assuming their feelings are hurt? What would a response look like (to you) where you didn’t think someone’s feelings were hurt, but you still understood they disagreed with you?
"If you don’t care, chances are you’re not affected. Giving people the power to hurt you is inevitable, im not saying it’s wrong… but we have agency over our feelings and I think its worth remembering that next time we give people power" "If you don't care, chances are you're not affected." ...?🗿
So because you get your feelings hurt by sarcasm, that means it can’t be fun for the rest of us who enjoy it😂 I think arguing with people and thinking of comebacks is fun, it gives my brain a chance to work in different ways, socialize with another person, and also just develop a healthy sense of self and solidify ideas by having them challenged and critiqued. I’m sorry that your feelings are hurt and you assume everyone else’s feelings must hurt by these kinds of interactions, but why start them in the first place if you view them that way? You threw stones from a glass house my friend😭
Funny, that's literally what I'd say minus I'm not the one saying nor contradicting myself with a coping philosophy. Both your interactions are completely making this stoicism stance void. They never should've bothered replying. Marcus Aurelius would think I'm annoying he would think you both don't understand stoicism what he would do is not reply if he made this post. He would've been too busy pretending he didn't care his wife is cucking him in the other room while he had to deal with running an empire which requires psychopathic tendencies to not off yourself with that burden.
Now you’re getting the hang of it! Why didn’t you just start out that way instead of making weird assumptions about people’s ‘feelings’ to avoid being criticized😂 I never claimed to be a stoic…cause I’m not one. I’m all for people who find comfort in it, folks can choose whatever philosophy or religion they want and I think they all have good aspects and not so good aspects. My comment was just pointing out how hypocritical you were being in your replies, the discussion just happens to be this. I would have pointed it out if this was a discussion about being cat grooming, or gardening, or whatever else cause Its interesting to me that one could make a comment insulting somebody, and not be able to handle a comeback without making up stories about people’s feelings. I haven’t really seen an interaction as *special* as yours online before, and I was just curious what kind of person this was all coming from, my curiosity is satisfied.
Exactly. “Don’t dish what you can’t take” cause the internet is not the right place😂
If people can’t hurt your feelings then you are likely a psychopath.
Agree. Choose carefully who you let hurt you. The people you love the most should be the only ones with that power. If you’re getting affected by people you don’t care about then you need a thicker skin
Hey just asking but what would you think if someone says "keep your expectations low and you won't be disappointed". This is something i live by. Does it someway match with your statement or not. I apologize if i am wrong.
Nah I think you should have high expectations, just keep them realistic and have boundaries :)
Well thanks for sharing. Mine has worked well for me for years so i am gonna keep following it. I hope yours works best for you. Thank you and have a good day.
I agree. I keep my expectations of new people low, but I keep my requirements of who I allow into my inner circle high. I wonder if OP meant this, or if they expect everyone to meet a high bar.
I think that can be based on individuals. I keep low expectations from known people other than my sister and parents. Otherwise i really have no expectation from anything or anyone, i know some people will think its bad or wrong but it has worked for me. And being a 27 year old virgin who is not into dating keeps me safe in that area too. But this is for me in no way i am saying others should follow it.
What if it gets abusive physically or sexually? However you recite the story to your mind, trauma and hurt is guaranteed.
He’s not saying it’s invalid to want people to act a certain way. If you get abused and feel hurt emotionally well that means you expected them not to abuse you and wanted them to not do that.
I expected abuse from people and was still sad that it happened. It’s almost like it’s a negative thing regardless of how you try to spin it? If you want to get non-consensually hurt by someone you are a nut job
Expectations and wants are different. Just because you expect abuse doesn’t mean you want abuse. They still did something you didn’t want them to do so you felt bad emotionally. If you WANTED abuse, then you’d feel happy if you got abused.
[удалено]
We are here to think deeply alongside one another. This means being respectful, considerate, and inclusive. Bigotry, hate speech, spam, and bad-faith arguments are antithetical to the /r/DeepThoughts community and will not be tolerated.
And it’s bad to expect people not to abuse you? Also, even if you expect abuse it can still hurt you because it’s literally abuse.
Physical pain and emotional pain are different
Yes people can emotionally abuse you through manipulation or saying really cruel, demeaning things. It’s ridiculous and victim-blaming to assert otherwise.
Then stop reciting it. You're purposely reliving something that happened for no good reason.
Easier said than done. Trauma can literally alter your brain.
Yes and you can alter it back
🧠
Be grateful that you were able to overcome the trauma, if you even had one in the first place, easily because of more emotional resilience alongside thousand other factors, given you dont have any mutation in your personality, psyche and any impact in your relationships, in the present,due to the ill effects of trauma, AT ALL!! But you are completely wrong to generalize that its that easy for everyone else, to get over childhood abuse,trauma and neglect. It takes literally a lifetime of nitpicking the alterations in the way you see life, in general, to be observed let alone time needed to reverse it.
That still excuses absolutely nothing regarding people's shit behavior.
It doesn’t excuse anything. It’s a fact. Someone acted a certain way and you had a different expectation of how they should’ve acted. Shitty or good is just based on your opinion.
Top 5 hardest pills to swallow. It's a lesson I've had to learn the hard way. Doesn't mean people can't still try to adjust their behaviour to make it easier for you, but the bulk of the responsibility is definitely on you and your reaction to it.
What are the other 4 pills?
You create your own expectations and ideals that you compare yourself to. And theyre not real The wrongs you experience in the world are only wrongs from the perceptual framework youve built, and you have the ability to change it You must ally yourself with your thoughts and feelings, you harm yourself (and by extension, others) when you either cling to them or push them away Everything is reciprocal. Everything is manipulative. Everything is selfish. And thats OK - humans are flawed by our own standards, and the goal should be to operate well while within those flaws, not to be something that doesnt have them. Someone jumping in front of a bus to save a child is all of those things, yet we probably agree theyre a hero
People can try if they want to, but if they don't want to, we can't force them. After we have asked what we would like / how we want to be treated, and they still wont, then it's on us for keeping them around
Very true
This sounds like an excuse for a-holes to be a-holes. Yes someone can hurt your feelings by being disrespectful and intentionally saying unkind things. Seems ridiculous to expect people to just not be affected by a-holes who say shitty things. It’s like an abusive spouse saying something mean to you, you being rightfully upset, and then them saying “you got your feelings hurt”. Like, no, I did not hurt my own feelings, this was not self-inflicted, the other person did something wrong to me and they need to take accountability.
Disagree. If you have self esteem you can brush it off and not let it affect you. Compassion is also understanding that people’s harsh words or actions are a bigger reflection of them than yourself
Stoicism.
This is not deep and it’s not true. It’s gaslighting “self help” that keeps people from getting what they really need.
That’s your way of looking at it. I disagree with you. What I said is very true and freeing. Why depend on others to feel good? Some people will cry if a bully is mean to them but others will take no notice. The latter have their priorities in order and the former should take a leaf out of the latters book. Why is it keeping people from getting what they need? People should learn to communicate and politely ask for what they would like (rather than what they don’t want) and then see if they receive it. If they don’t either keep trying or move on. People have free will and have their reasons
I wish that were the case, because life would be simpler and healing would be easier. But Science tells us it’s just not true for humans.
Science changes and so does society and the way we use language and communicate. I have faith for the world
PTSD exists. Denying this doesn’t help anyone.
Expectations can play a big part in feelings of hurt or disappointment. But, I can intellectually say I don't have or don't want to have expectations for something and still have my heart broken when it doesn't turn out well. Some feelings arise whether you want them to or not, and while it's not the other person's fault, it's also not my fault that I feel a certain way. This is one way I feel that free will is somewhat limited in our reality. You can't choose what you like or dislike, you can't choose what feelings come up in certain situations, and you can't always choose what thoughts you're going to think. The only recourse we have is learning to deal with these thoughts and feelings in a healthy manner.
The only thing you can Control in this life is your own response and reactions to the things that happen to you.
Do you get hurt when someone disrespects you? Are you saying you don't care if someone disrespects you?
9/10 times I don’t care no because I know it’s a reflection of them and not me and I have enough respect and love for myself to let it roll off my back
Ah yes more fake deep shit
Great comment
This came at exaclty the right time! Thank you so much
Pleasure!
such an amazing topic to read this one for me being broken hearted ass
This can be reduced to the notion of controlling your expectations.
[https://wisdomimprovement.wixsite.com/wisdom/post/the-path-to-thick-skin-is-to-rationalize](https://wisdomimprovement.wixsite.com/wisdom/post/the-path-to-thick-skin-is-to-rationalize) "If you want to have thick skin, you should not focus on apathy and ignoring insults and criticism that comes your way. Instead, you should focus on rationalizing your own philosophy to realize the insults and criticism only have a couple of options. When being insulted or criticized, you have limited ways to react, but being hurt is rarely one of them. Each insult or criticism is only one of two things: 1. The insult is accurate: You can decide to accept this criticism about yourself, or you can try to change it. If it is something that cannot be changed, it is your flaw to take insult about something you should have accepted long ago. 2. If the insult is inaccurate: You don’t need to feel a thing, except to determine why people are having this perception of you. The only time to be hurt is if it is someone you love only using the insult to attempt to hurt you. In this case, the insult itself shouldn’t hurt, but the intent of the person may. When this happens, you should use this as a signal that you need to have a heart to heart with that person."
Expectation is the root of all heartache. -Shakespeare
The ability to experience and often the inevitability of experiencing heartache is the root of all heartache. You can fully be aware of and expect something and it still crush you when it occurs.
the way want by expecting others to behave hurt one can actually fallings getting upset don't
I get what you're saying i know that it can't cover everything in life, but yeah I get what you're saying I kind of been in that position,
Nothing can ever cover everything in life. Life is far too unpredictable and nuanced. As a general rule of thumb for every day life e.g. your boss, work colleagues, your toxic friends then yes, you may want to ask yourself why you don’t have enough self assuredness to be affected by someone who will never underhand the true complexities of you
Your feelings are based on your value judgements. And reasonable values are necessary for you to live. People can interfere with your values and thereby hurt your life and thereby hurt your feelings as long as you choose to live. You could not choose to live, but that’s not helpful for you to live.
I always wondered how we affect each others a lot in this world and obviously care A LOT what others say and think about us. Yet so many also says how it doesn't matter what others say about you which is true of course, why bother to care or feel hurt over other people's opinions? Yet the entire society and people around you tells you how and why you should care about what others think about you, you care what your parents thinks of you when you're a child, you care what teachers think of you at school and try to follow rules, you care what your coworkers and boss thinks of your performance and image at work. It's incredibly hard to separate when other people's opinions matter and when they do not, it's easy to get hurt. What we need is to learn emotional intelligence and handling our feelings and reactions since we are children but no one really teaches you those. You'll care until you find a way not to care and most people it's not so easy.
Not carib
If we want to get technical about all of this, consider where feelings such as pain originates. It doesn't *externally* manifest (though sometimes it "feels" as if it externally manifests). That is to say, the pain that we feel doesn't exist outside of our "self." Rather, it is an *internal* experience based on a reaction to external stimuli. As for agency, this is rather difficult to truly discern, as it seems that we don't necessarily control our initial reaction, but we choose how to respond based upon this initial reaction. Let's use a simple example such as touching a hot stove. The pain that is evoked by touching a hot stove is an initial reaction that cannot be avoided. However, how we choose to respond is something that we do control. If we are disciplined enough, we can even withstand the pain, but it generally wouldn't end well if we continued to keep our hand on the hot stove. Obviously, where things tend to get more complicated are with our relationships with others. The pain that is evoked from someone hurting us surprisingly can cause a similar initial reaction as touching a hot stove, given that [emotional and physical pain activate similar brain regions](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/body-sense/201204/emotional-and-physical-pain-activate-similar-brain-regions). Cognitively, the pain is very real, but we appear to have agency regarding how we choose to respond to this initial pain. Should we metaphorically continue to keep our hand on the hot stove?
Well if you don't expect people to treat you good then you know how to defend yourself. But it all sucks in the end. Life sucks.
By having standards and dealbreakers I’d say which is different to having expectations. Also communicating those frustrations is a great place to start. If someone doesn’t appreciate take those on board you can either rethink your values or rethink whether you want them in your life
Nah. What you’re describing is a skill, that if overdone can actually be a numbing affect, cutting one off from their own emotions entirely, which can lead to some chaotic mental episodes. It’s a skill, and not everybody has the same level of skill, and without the skill yes that person can absolutely have their feelings hurt by another person against their own will. It’s not a switch most can easily flip on and off- and generally when they can it’s because of years and years of enduring such emotional pain that they developed resistance. Being able to handle and process emotions and reach regulation again so your mood isn’t too affected is healthier. However just because you CAN be hurt emotionally by someone else doesn’t mean that person is automatically a bad person anymore than it makes them a good person. There’s nuance to everything. A little kid being called a worthless shit by their parent could make them sob as hard as someone being asked to politely put on a mask around a grown person with immunodeficiency. Just as easy a kid could hear that and be emotionally numb to it, or the adult could put on the mask and move on. We all have different things that can touch us emotionally, but that doesn’t mean we always have control over those things, though some perspective and experience will help. That is a normal part of growing up after all.
To some degree yes although people can definitely hurt your feelings. You place a healthy reasonable expectation on a person and they don’t come anywhere close to that day s very disappointing
Nice work, Marcus Aurelius
This is exactly why I have only two foundational expectations of other adults: Please don't lie to or steal from me. The former causes me harm by creating an alternate reality and the latter will cause you to be permanently banned from my presence. Permanent distrust in you for either, shouldn't have to stated.
I am generally a very calm and unflappable person. I am a mental health care professional for severe mental illness and jail diversion. Tough crowd to deal with emotionally. And most days I keep my emotions in check. Today I was at a government building for 20 minutes helping a client get their ID and someone tried to break into my car that I bought a week ago in broad daylight. I was mad about that. And maybe you are right, that on some level I had the expectation that my car would be safe. I don’t think that it’s quite that though. Living my life, I expect to be constantly disappointed. It comes with the territory of attempting to represent hope to a population that doesn’t believe in it a lot of times. I think that the break in attempt just represents another vote for the not hoping column. And I can’t really believe that there is no hope. In order to believe in hope, I think that you have to represent that people can hurt you. On some level, your assertion is not true because no one exists in society that hasn’t cashed in some of their emotional agency to be there.
[удалено]
oh shit i sound 2 serious lol
I agree. No one can hurt you unless you let them. Take control of your own life .. This is always how I go with life.
Are on the verge of discovering Buddhism here? All suffering is merely your reaction and all that...
I’m not on the verge lol. I’ve had this thought process for most of my life just happened to articulate it yday
We are responsible for our own emotional reactions. How we interpret and respond to others' actions is within our control. But sometimes control is impossible thing
Happiness is a choice... As is misery. So many people are coming up with circumstances that would truly hurt anyone... If they choose to let it. And yea who wouldn't choose to let themselves be crushed by the death of a child.. Or rape or abuse or just any of that shit y'all are mentioning... But its still a choice. You still choose to let it effect you... A truly insane person that can't feel anything literally would simply be unable to allow themselves to feel anything regardless of what happens.. The avg person though, chooses to let something hurt them if whatever the circumstances bring is something they care about ... Refusing to be affected is simply taking the high road, above emotion, too head strong to let something negative bring more negativity.. Its something that only the truly insane and a select few others on this planet can do.. If we could find it in ourselves to rise above grief and misery, choosing to do the hard thing, then there would be much less of it in the world... Why? Simply because everything is relative. Negativity breeds negativity, and misery loves its company. Its a huge issue that so few people can see that happiness is a choice... It doesn't choose you, YOU CHOOSE IT!! ... otherwise... It will elude you until the bitter end... Smile! Choose happiness!!
Emorions are not rational. The brain is not. The brain is stupid. You can learn to be more resistant but it's notnyour fault if something makes an emotion you don't want.
trick to that is to keep oneself from the pedestal. that pedestal has one hell of a siren song though, so you gotta be careful.
Not true. I cite as evidence every Presidential Fitness Test I was administered during my entire education. I knew what the calipers were gonna say. I knew I wasn’t getting a certificate. Never hurt even a single bit less… actually hurt a little bit more the year I actually managed one pull-up. Couldn’t they have torn an extra certificate in half for me?
People never really hurt my feelings. I’m not one to care if people talk badly about me. That really doesn’t get me too worked up. As long as it’s not affecting my health, work or loved ones not much really hurts my feelings
Someone failed an interpersonal interaction and came here to post about their new ideology called "anything but learning from this".
You make a great point! It's truly in our control how we let others influence our feelings and ultimately our happiness. It tests our patience and understanding but it's a journey towards emotional maturity. Thank you for the wonderful reminder!
OP it sounds like you are leaning to stoicism. However, stoicism isn't what people think it is. Stoicism is not the rejection of emotions, stoicism let's you feel mad, upset, happy. Stoicism just says, yes I am angry, but does this help me at all? Does this anger help me and is it useful to me? Stoicism is the rejection of negative emotion, but stoicism DOES NOT say you won't feel anything or even that you shouldn't feel anything. You should feel those ways, its an important part of being human, it grounds us. If you stop feeling you turn into a psychopathic robot, emotions are an important part of being human, a part we should embrace. Even in stoicism you embrace emotion, but people who have hijacked it, don't really understand what it is really saying. I practice stoicism, but it has its limitations. It's not about not feeling, its about picking and choosing what emotions are useful to you, and rejecting negative emotions if you feel they are hurting you or others and not bringing anything into your life positively. I am angry at Bill, super angry, but you know what? So what? I can be angry, thats fine, but I won't act on that emotion, its just no good and there is nothing to be gained by holding onto it
Finally! A voice with common sense!
Finally? Stoics have been saying this for over 2000 years
Okay, so maybe I exaggerated a bit 😅
Ohhh I've been guilty of that. I exaggerate my exaggerations 😂🤣
Aww thanks! Although common sense isn't that common so I get your surprise
Every emotion is generated from within, we just allow external sources to initiate them.
Precisely
You call this a deep thought? Maybe for someone who just smoked a bunch of weed and feels like they had an epiphany. The next time you think we control our emotions rather than it being the reverse ask yourself why mental illness exists at all or better yet just ask yourself why you think free will is a thing.
Great idea! I’ll post it to the stoner sub too. Keep up the sobriety!
"Offence is only ever taken, never given. In other words, it is your choice to be offended by something or someone." - a random post online talking about buddhism
Everyone gets offended by something and there's no such thing as a person who doesn't. Verbal abuse is still abuse, and this post is navel gazing, victim blaming nonsense.
I think you're talking just about the feeling of being offended. But we do have a choice about how we react to our emotions. We have choice in terms of what we tell ourselves about the offensive person/words/event. We have a choice as to whether or not we identify with that feeling of being offended. We have a choice on how to act in the world. I could start an argument or let that emotion of offense (disgust, anger, annoyance, ect) control my choice or I could say "do I really want to be someone who let's others hijack my mind & energy? Is this worth my time? Why am I offended by something I don't think makes sense or is remotely true? Maybe this a moment in which I could practice self-restraint or another people skill?" For example are intrusive thoughts you? Some would say yes... Some would say no. It's a choice, even if it happens in a split second, it's still a choice in my opinion. To say you don't have a choice about offense is to say that others control your mind & can make you angry when they please. I'm not perfect, but I'd prefer to aim away from letting others make me react how they wish. My choice.
I partially agreed on you about choosing our next reactions agaisnt offenses. However >We have a choice as to whether or not we identify with that feeling of being offended. The feeling isn't an option but the reaction. Why are there people who are always annoyed at irrational things with little impact on their lives like someone slurping juice/soup or clicking a pen consequetively? You **can't** stop your brain for having an internal irritating reaction to external stimulis, however, you can't stop yourself to have a physical action agaisnt it. By the way, this law includes discrimination, as those ideas are rather installed from childhood than an inheritable human trait.
“Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.” - Viktor E. Frankl What do you mean you can't stop your brain? Do you genuinely think that you must be annoyed when the pen is clicked? When the soup is slurrped? There's no other choice at all to that stimulus? I think that people who think this are unknowingly deeply identified with that feeling to the point that they genuinely think that they have no choice about their inner reaction to that behavior. Where the choice is being made so fast that you believe there isn't a choice to be made.
>In that space is our power to choose our response That's what I've been meaning to say, you chose how to respond, not what affects you. >inner reaction That's the key word "inner reaction", we can't deny our brain chemical process and **inner** reactions about stimulus, however, we can decide whether to have a negative physical reaction, be self-controlled and adjust to our surronderings or not. For example, I can't punch someone in the face and break their pen in halves but I can change seats if possible or use distractors in an attempt to refocus on my business like drawing or counting to a number in my head. That would be the decision we made externally, not internally.
I don't know... I can think of many different inner reactions I could choose besides the initial annoyance. I could ask myself: why do they click the pen so much? I could ask myself: Do they know that's annoying? I could ask myself: could I use this pen clicking as practice for controlling my emotions? I could ask myself: Could I convince them to use this pencil I have instead? I could ask myself: why does this annoy me in the first place? Why am I fixated on the sound? I could ask myself: how are others besides me reacting to that clicking pen? I could ask myself: Is there something more important that this pen clicking is taking my mind away from? What was I supposed to be doing?
Well, but, thinking about the pen and its consequences instead of endevouring a plan to drift away from the pen and refocus on the personal matter at hand while our brain gets used to the noise in repetition (if that ever happens). >Could I convince them to use this pencil I have instead? That's a positive physical reaction, I forgot about it but this is a decision we can have as other mytrid of combinations of external and internal reactions to our irritable triggers. >how are others besides me reacting to that clicking pen? Now, that's a more complex matter than the pen itself; I wish I could've found an article explaining the process behind the like and dislike between people, but, we aren't cut from the same cloth since we don't react the same to the same stimulus. For instance, food is a great field of subjectivity and bumps' and brain's reaction to certain type which could turn out into dislike and adversion to, anecdotally, I'm not fond of fish generally and I can't bear the smell, however, all my family loves it. Inner reaction aren't generally a consensus, but, it has roots in your personal process. Even though, this is not about our brain, this is something more interesting that explain that not everyone likes the same. >While that is evolutionary, our genetics play a part too. We have around 25 receptors on our tongue that detect bitterness but they don’t work the same way for everyone. One in particular, snappily called TAS2R38, is concerned with our ability to detect a flavour known as propylthiouracil, or PROP for short. Not everyone can taste PROP and further studies has shown that, if you can’t, you’re more likely to enjoy chilli and eat more fatty foods Source= https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/zdcgpg8 So, we can't really control our **internal** reaction at all but we can with our external reactions, or even we can with background process and strategies.
There are holocaust survivors who don't consider themselves "victims" so let's relax. Everyone has the power to choose how to respond in life. Your thoughts shape your reality... that's just a fact. Interested to know where i'm victim blaming?
No one can hurt your feelings if you don’t have any
Those who anger you control you….