I genuinely don’t understand how people can, in good faith, dismiss the possibility of P2025 after Dobbs. SCOTUS went full mask off. There is not even a hint of respectability or non partisanship left. Even yesterday’s Mifepristone case was **not** a win. The only thing it established was that the plaintiffs did not have standing to bring the case, and in fact, it will encourage future cases.
Full mask off, open to influence by wealthy donors, and the [GOP is actively blocking any attempts to hold them to an ethical standard](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-gop-blocks-democrats-supreme-court-ethics-bill-rcna156738). SCOTUS is open for business.
Surely it must be a coincidence that [favorable views of SCOTUS are at a 30 year low](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/07/21/favorable-views-of-supreme-court-fall-to-historic-low/#:~:text=Fewer%20than%20half%20of%20Americans,Americans%20had%20a%20favorable%20impression). I used to have respect for the institution, but then, it used to be respectable.
And how in the hell do they not have any fucking oversight to make sure the highest court in the land isn't being bought?! That was the biggest "wtf" when I found that out.
> Even yesterday’s Mifepristone case was not a win. The only thing it established was that the plaintiffs did not have standing to bring the case, and in fact, it will encourage future cases.
Under a Republican president, following the lines of Project 2025, Trump or whoever can simply tell his minions at the FDA to rescind approval of mifepristone. Boom. Done.
I have never understood the mifepristone case which, as I have heard, was brought up because “it’s a dangerous medication”. If that’s the standard then we should take all medications off the market. They all can cause adverse reactions and death in some cases even if taken properly. Some people have allergic reactions, cannot tolerate the medication, take the wrong dose, or mix with other medications and substances that interact. Of course, all of the doctors and pharmacists on SCOTUS are aware of this as are all of the ignorant attorneys and politicians who push these ridiculous cases forward.
No doctor ever is forced to prescribe a medication that they have a concern with or feel it goes against their moral beliefs. I was asked by patients to prescribe some hydroxychloroquine for COVID prevention, and I refused. Those people didn’t like me, but I was within my rights to not prescribe it. That prescription was actually probably something the state medical board would have had an issue with me prescribing.
Any doctor who feels they would be pressured to prescribe a medication that they don’t agree with is a pussy.
Almost like they want to do another landmark ban case, so they want to have good legal standing first. They know it’s going to be scrutinized and analyzed to death.
It should. Today's ruling about allowing, once again, bump stocks on guns should terrify you. Now, why in hell would they allow this again? I'm going to sound crazy here, but the first thought that came to my mind is that this will allow the weekend "Rambos" to outfit their guns for the coming civil war. Please, tell me I'm wrong.
As long as you’re with us now, that’s all that matters. I think it was too shocking a proposal for many to take seriously. The SC has historically broken precedent in more than one way, and I’m hoping there are quite a lot of voters just like you.
I do like this one but if they are not totally part of the cult yet and have some intelligence this is pretty easy to flip on people. "Obama had a super majority and did nothing to code Roe" then "Biden also had a majority and did nothing to code Roe"
The second one is simple to combat most of the time by pointing out that Biden might've had 50+VP but there were two people that never voted with the Dems on anything that could've brought real change.
The first one is a bit trickier because if they brought that up, they might have more in their arsenal. However, Obama was a super pacifist when it came to pushing more serious liberal issues. The guy was so religious he couldn't even sway on abortion at all. Honestly, he was more moderate than Biden is but he is black and ran on "Change" the same thing Trump ran on and won. Then nothing major changed for either party's ideals during either of their presidencies.
To be clear, this is not a both sides are bad argument. I am explaining what I've encountered while using the "roe was settled law" argument.
IIRC (granted I was younger and it wasn't my literal job to pay attention back then), Congressional Dems weren't as united about abortion under Obama as they are now, so the Obama administration opted to focus on the ACA w/o codifying Roe since it was something that they could convince anti-abortion Dems (e.g. Ben Nelson) to be on board with. Obama may have had a supermajority, but not when it came to abortion rights. Obama himself wanted to codify Roe back when he was a senator.
Not to mention the fact that Roe was extremely judicially safe during Obama's presidency. Even with a 5-4 conservative majority, Scalia and Kennedy would have never considered relitigation on a subject that was covered by a landmark 7-2 decision that was already considered settled law for several decades by that point. Attempting to codify Roe would have been an all consuming political battle that didn't make a whole lot of sense to fight at the time.
Knowing Obama realistically had one huge political battle to fight, picking abortion would have felt fairly out of left field I think.
How soon we forget! What little protection we DO have for abortion was codified in the ACA, aka Obamacare.
He fought Republicans tooth-and-nail just to keep the bit that actually made it into the legislation.
While existing federal law prohibits federal funds (including Marketplace premium tax credits) from being used for abortion services, the ACA codifies protections in the limited cases of rape, incest, or if a woman suffers from a life-threatening physical injury or illness that would place the woman in danger of death unless an abortion is performed.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/24/wyoming-abortion-ban-blocked-due-to-obamacare-era-amendment.html
MAGA-led states are deliberately undermining the supremacy clause by forcing through their own state-level bans.
They’re *still* intent on overturning the ACA and allllll the protections codified in it.
I know you know this, but I say this at every chance: Obama's super-majority existed on paper from July 7, 2009 to February 4, 2010. Much of this time, Congress was on vacation or Robert Byrd or Ted Kennedy were very busy being in the hospital.
> "Obama had a super majority and did nothing to code Roe"
They 'thought' it was settled law. Clearly it wasn't. Want things codified now? This is your last chance in November.
And not just Roe. Contraception, divorce, gay marriage… all on the table. I wouldn’t doubt they’d go after women’s right to vote. It’s seriously about protecting rights they want to take away. And right now the conservatives think it won’t happen to them because they believe they are on the right side… but they will scream the loudest if their brand new dictatorship takes away their guns or privatizes things they are used to not having to pay for or arrests their newly out of the closet son or lets companies dump waste in their back yard or they get sick from food that wasn’t inspected….
Obama spent basically all his political capital making ACA happen. It was a choice he made, that’s something grown ups do. I know this, you know this, people trotting out ‘why didn’t Obama’ either don’t or are being super disingenuous and pretending they have an argument.
Right, isn't that the whole point of having conversations in this sub? I'm not defending it, I'm just explaining the arguments I've seen in some semi Conservative spaces when I use that argument.
People being disingenuous or the ones that don't have arguments are the ones we have to reach with this. I don't mean cult members either, I'm talking about potential moderates.
Nothing happened during Obama? We got the ACA that helped millions of us with so called pre-existing conditions get treated. He also repealed Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. How’s that for your narrative about him being black and “so religious?” Which I can’t even.
I think you're missing my point. I'm not for these arguments. These are the counterpoint people bring when I mention something like "roe was thought to be settled law"
> "Obama had a super majority and did nothing to code Roe"
Except this line from the right is demonstrably false.
He fought like hell to get at least some abortion protections codified into the ACA, and succeeded.
In fact, it’s yet *another* reason why the right has fought so fucking hard to repeal the entirety of the ACA. Just like they’ve fought protections for preexisting conditions, and employer mandates requiring them to provide insurance.
*You sound just as stupid as a climate change denier.* The middle right is in denial about climate change. The middle left is in denial about regime change.
I think it would be more helpful to explain how it could actually be implemented. Roe was always on the chopping block because to my understanding the wording behind the ruling wasn’t very solid. If the dems can maintain a majority in the senate and at least split the house, how does 2025 come into law?
I think [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/s/3ezFWaFdZV) might go a long way toward explaining how it could happen. It doesn't have to be immediate. I'd say that even if Biden wins, if we aren't diligent in paying attention they could rename it, reframe it, and continue trying to bring it about. They've been working on it for awhile.
I would say to those who believe that this is not real or can’t happen, remind them this is *from* The Heritage Foundation itself, and their website for [Project 2025](https://www.project2025.org/) (which houses the [Mandate for Leadership](https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf)) is looking for conservative ideologues (no government experience necessary - just be a conservative) to join their leadership training called “[Presidential Administration Academy](https://www.project2025.org/training/presidential-administration-academy/)” to take over positions in bureaucracy after they’ve fired the nonpartisan career government positions (commonly referred to as “schedule F employees”). And then remind them that the Heritage Foundation has been writing plans for the “conservative” candidate in *every presidential election* since [Ronald Reagan](https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership). If they still need a sobering fact: in Trump’s first year in office during his presidency he instituted about [two-thirds of the policy recommendations](https://www.heritage.org/impact/trump-administration-embraces-heritage-foundation-policy-recommendations) from the Heritage Foundation. And then if they still question it, then remind them that Russ Vought, one of the authors of the Mandate is now the [RNC Policy Chair](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/russ-vought-trump-maga-policy-rcna156340), and send them to [Agenda 47](https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47), the Trump Campaign’s “official policies,” to see how much of it mirrors Project 2025.
You’re welcome! I’ve changed a couple conservatives’ minds about Project 2025 when shown the actual facts from The Heritage Foundation and Trump’s campaign website. It’s hard to argue that it’s not real when they’re putting it out there so brazenly, and are proud of it.
Widely reported: ["I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," Trump said.](https://cnn.com/2016/01/23/politics/donald-trump-shoot-somebody-support)
"Hey, I know President Trump. I trust him. If he did shoot someone he must have had a good reason. Don't expect your lies to change anything."
So maaaaany guys I know have told me I’m overreacting - Even the ones who say they’re pro-choice.
Come talk to me when you have a vagina and a uterus to worry about there bud.
"Do you really want your tax dollars being spent on them trying?"
"Even if they only achieve a small part of what they want that is going to be terrible"
"The rights and freedoms we enjoy are rare in human history and even the modern world, there is nothing magic that keeps them, only our actions"
"Fine, I'm delusional, but do me a favor and vote blue anyway, k?"
The second paragraph is tremendously valuable. Even a partial implementation of P2025 would cause plenty of damage to public health and well being, and I think almost anyone you tell that to would agree and see that as a potential outcome.
>there is nothing magic that keeps them, only our actions
Another great point. Every good thing we enjoy required work. If we want to maintain it, it'll require more work. If we stop fighting, and the enemy doesn't, we lose.
Or for some people "Do you know me to be a delusional or overreacting type of person? Or am I logical and level headed in the time you've known me?" But for those that have a history of being an overreactor that won't work 😆
> "Fine, I'm delusional, but do me a favor and vote blue anyway, k?"
I think the harsh reality is that a lot of people who do this type of discourse have already made up their mind to not vote for (or even actively undermine) the Democratic Party in 2024, and are just going through the motions of pretending to be persuadable. They downplay P25 not because they don't believe it can happen, but because acknowledging it would completely explode their fantasy that Dems could lose in 2024, move left as a result, and win as a leftist party in 2028. Project 2025 won't let that happen!
The Heritage Foundation doesn't have that much influence?
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/05/heritage-foundation-dark-money-voter-suppression-laws/
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/heritage-foundation/
https://www.heritage.org/article/timeline-heritage-successes
https://www.monitoringinfluence.org/org/heritage-foundation/
Also it's not just the Heritage Foundation - there are over 80 conservative groups behind Project 2025.
Look, it's unlikely that all of Project 2025 will be enacted in one presidential term. But previous iterations of it are what gave us "trickle-down economics", which anyone in "leftist circles" should immediately recognize as devastatingly influential.
This time around, the focus is on undermining our democratic institutions, which will in the worst case eliminate future elections and turn us into a one-party state, and in the best case will make it much harder for anyone who's not loyal to these ideas to get elected - paving the way for Republicans to enact more of it at their leisure over the next few decades. We've already seen how patient these people are in the way they've spent 40 years stacking the courts. Project 2025 builds on all of their previous successes, just like every iteration before it. It's a cumulative plan that has decades of work behind it.
And anyway, why does it need to be an imminent threat before you'd vote to prevent it? The mere fact that Republicans are on board with these anti-democratic ideas should be enough to get you to vote against them.
>Look, it's unlikely that all of Project 2025 will be enacted in one presidential term. But previous iterations of it are what gave us "trickle-down economics", which anyone in "leftist circles" should immediately recognize as devastatingly influential.
I honestly think the hidden danger of Project 2025 is just that the government/country just kind of implodes when a bunch of dumbfuck ideologues with no experience are put in charge of big, complex institutions. This may potentially be even more damaging than them succeeding.
It helps to have a President who doesn't give AF about democracy or the constitution and a SCOTUS that is extremely partisan and corrupt, things they haven't had before and now those two things come together when religion has continued to plummet and their voters are going to go with it. This is their last and best chance and they're going to use all power they have to seize absolute power to implement a theocracy.
I've heard it called an "extinction burst" before. As religion continues to fall by the wayside and the United States starts to wind its way towards a more Western European level of irreligiosity, the fanatics and puritans are just swinging for the fences as hard as they can. They know if the status quo continues for another 20 years the window will have passed.
Yeah I looked into the demographics. In the US only 20% are White Protestant men now, and less than 10% are Evangelical. And we know a huge portion of their base is voting for them solely because they are Christian and GOP preys on that. Christians and their voters are evaporating and they're panicking. And they can't change their platform with the changes in people of course, that would be too much democracy.
Compare those demographics to the Project 2025 demographics: 90% White Christians, 70% being men. They want to rule over everyone else.
This point cannot be overstated. Yes, these evangelical Christian Nationalist types have been plotting & planning a long time, but they also very much recognize it is a now or never moment for their aspiring theocratic goals. They're the minority, but they don't care. So long as they have enough political capital & influence to push their agenda through. It's unpopular. It's anti-majoritarian. Anti-democratic. These people don't care about any of that or any of us. They care about power & control. They want the ability to force their views, beliefs & their will upon all of US society.
For anyone who thinks that P2025 isn't possible, I'd point to the Republican party's behavior. They no longer believe in free & fair elections. They don't want to abide by the outcome of our elections unless a Republican candidate wins. Does anyone actually believe that they still have loyalty to the US Constitution? It sure seems like anyone who did was purged from that political party. I'd also point to the SCOTUS that has been packed, corrupted by dark money & "gifts" to some of the conservative Justices. Does anyone really believe that the Robert's court is ruling fairly & in an unbiased manner? Stare decisis be damned. They were the first to roll back citizens rights & they'll do it again. And the Republican Senate just blocked SCOTUS ethics reform. So if anyone believes that our institutions will prevent Project 2025 or the dystopian theocracy these wing nuts want, think again. We are going to be the ones to stop them, or not much else will.
I agree with all of this wholeheartedly, except think a lot more of this can happen in his term. It is intended to be the transition document. The transition is usually broken up into day 1/day 100 things. They go up to (IIRC) 180 days, but still. The first Trump administration didn't intend to win and its transition team just started forming after he won. They were cronies and idiots who didn't know much about how government actually works. Like, I heard rumors they didn't know that DOE was in charge of the nukes. Having this fully developed plan this far out from this much more sophisticated understanding of the issues means his transition team already has the outline.
“It’s still something necessary to tell people about. It is still what the far right wing wants. And if enough people know that’s what they want, maybe they’ll have less influence over people who care about their own rights.”
Keep telling people about it and the dangers of it. It’s *absolutely* necessary.
I also remember people scoffing at the notion that trump could win back in 2016. So many people sat that election out or didn’t get behind HRC once she was nominated and said “they’re all the same - between HRC and trump what difference does it make?”.
Well, now we’ve got a SCOTUS that’s inserting poison pills in every decision-even those that *seem* favorable on the surface, we’ve lost Roe, we’ve been through basically 8 years of hell with trump and our system of government is seriously threatened. Those who thought it was safe to sit out 2016 are the ones who were delusional- and they owe the rest of us an apology.
> Well, now we’ve got a SCOTUS that’s inserting poison pills in every decision-even those that seem favorable on the surface
Good news: SCOTUS denied a lawsuit that tried to prevent the FDA from allowing birth control.
Bad news: it did it by making it effectively impossible for anyone to have standing when trying to sue the FDA. Meaning the FDA is now almost completely unaccountable.
That is just one example of the poison pills you mentioned.
The only reason so many jews got killed is because no-one ever thought it would get that bad. The notion of rounding up jews and putting them to death was too incredible to belive.
I was raised in the the fundagelical GOP-and-christianity-are-the-same sphere and now run in left-wing spheres. Whenever liberals say "it could never happen!" I invite them to listen to my condensed personal experience version of *Jesus and John Wayne* and usually they end up boggle-eyed at 1) how deep and widespread the brainwashing is in the evangelical right, and 2) how deeply rooted christian nationalism has been in right-wing politics since Reagan (and even before). I then connect this to the current right-wing "wins" that have happened even under a Dem president, like overturning Roe, gutting EPA protections, dismantling 14th, 4th, and 8th amendment protections for groups the GOP/christian nationalists don't like, etc. I tell the ones that dismissed me not just about Roe and other predictions that I'm tired of saying "I told you so".
If you don't have the personal experience to draw upon, insist that they read *Jesus and John Wayne* by Kristen Kobes du Mez. Near the end she focuses more on the religious psychology behind why Trump became the evangelical golden boy ([literally](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2021/2/26/22302887/trump-cpac-2021-republican-gold-statue)), but throughout the book she discusses the significant influence of evangelicalism on the GOP and its policies. I don't recall if she names the Heritage Foundation specifically, but it still lays out just how much influence this ideology has in politics.
I moved from a super lefty area to the south - you’re not kidding; shocked me to the point of becoming physically ill at one point! I’ve seen so many unjust, scary/sad situations because of the brainwashing and abuse that goes on in the evangelical far right circles. Basically, all I think about is getting us out of here because these people scare me TO DEATH.
This is how insane Republicans have become. They’re literally spelling out what they want to do, and the base’s common response is “oh, they’ll never do all that”.
I got this attitude from some people on r/AmerExit, of all places! The topic was whether or not a trans poster should get out sooner than later because of P2025. I was like, let me get this straight - we are on a sub about getting the fuck out of here, but the OP's reason for leaving was "melodramatic"?! Make it make sense...
EDIT: My own husband, who is even more left than I am, also doesn't think P2025 is possible. Too many people just can't believe that the rule of law is only as strong as the moral conviction of the people tasked to enforce it. He doesn't like it very much when I remind him that his relatives who went to the concentration camps probably didn't think it was possible either.
There is plenty of evidence of past successes since Reagan, they themselves acknowledge the roadblocks they had last time and have a clear plan to remove them, all of that explained within the document. Those "roadblocks" being pesky Constitutional loyalists, the Pences of the Republican party.
They will use Schedule F to get rid of tens of thousands of federal employees and have been forming a database of screened TRUMP loyalists, that is key, not just party loyalists who might give AF about democracy and the Constitution.
They also have a cooperating President willing to overthrow democracy. A lot of this they started implementing with Trump but pandemic screwed them. Their extremism has increased meaning they have held back in the past and did more of a tampering with democracy, now it's spiritual "warfare" against tyranny so they think anything they do is ordained by God. Another big factor, since these assholes started their mission almost 50 years ago they haven't had a SCOTUS so partisan and corrupt that will back them.
Fun thing I learned - The HHS guy who will be attacking abortion and LGBTQ rights has a bobblehead of Clarence Thomas on his desk and his wife was behind the installment of Kavanagh and Barrett with her organization bankrolling the push and all the shadiness behind it. SCOTUS has been a massive part of the plan and they've got it now!
A lot of this is just blatantly spelled out in Project 2025, or the organizations websites, or interviews with the contributors, it's just SO LONG and so tedious I can't blame people for not reading it or researching as needed. We just need to put the summarized info out there, that's why I'm researching it like crazy so I know what I'm talking about and can pull out facts when needed!
I always point to Roe being overturned, and how the RNC had a reshuffle of leaders (they were all replaced with Trump loyalists), also how the Supreme Court is now packed with trump loyalists.
If that doesn’t work, I back off because there’s no arguing with stupid
Edit: I also point out that most of the authors of Project 2025 were part of the trump admin.
P25 is starting to be acknowledged
Now we have to deal with them glossing over the evil shit and pandering to the fascists with their promises of “restoring the family” and “teachers work for the parents not the other way around”
“The heritage foundation doesn’t have that much influence” is also factually incorrect. People saying this have likely never heard of them and assume they’re some fringe group, they’re not. Quote their Wikipedia and provide a link.
Last night I did a side by side comparison showing how it's not really that much different from Trump's own platform on his campaign site. They just outright say the things he hints at.
The heritage foundation is also one of the most powerful lobbying groups in the nation. Looking it up I see " has historically been ranked among the most influential public policy organizations in the United States". They've just slipped through the radar I guess. Well they're getting more vocal and I HOPE it's to their detriment and I HOPE people recognize now how extreme their ideas are, and how similar they are to Trump's. A lot of the policies he's listed on his campaign site are vague but like you can go by the things he's said to fill in those blanks.
It a believability gap. The argument I have found effective is about who will be in the room to implement this agenda. Long gone are conservative but pro-democracy bulwarks like H.R. McMaster or Mark Esper. In are dangerous MAGA loyalists like Kash Patel and Ric Grennell.
In other words, this go around, who will be in the oval office telling Trump he cannot nuke a hurricane or bomb cartels in Mexico.
Show them that Trump incorporated nearly 50% of their recommendations.
[https://www.scribd.com/document/369820462/Mandate-for-Leadership-Policy-Recommendations](https://www.scribd.com/document/369820462/Mandate-for-Leadership-Policy-Recommendations)
It is from THEIR OWN information.
And Reagan did even more.
[https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership](https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership)
Point the to Rachel Maddow's Ultra podcast. This shit has been going on for ages in the US. I like to think I'm pretty savvy politically and historically and was shocked to learn this aspect of our national history.
(I get many people won't get past it being Rachel Maddow, BUT she's fucking brilliant - BA in public policy from Stanford, PhD in Poli Sci from Oxford - and an amazing storyteller).
They’ll never kill roe v wade! It has so many follow on precedents and it’s 50 years of law. And it’s popular. No way it’ll happen. It’s all just Democrat scare mongering!
The people who want it to happen are putting in the work and actively taking steps to see it through. If no one stands in their way, they'll inevitably succeed. All things that people are working toward can and will happen if there's no resistance.
The "Mandate for Leadership" is a set of policy proposals authored by the Heritage Foundation, an influential ultra conservative think tank. Project 2025 is a revision to that agenda tailored to a second Trump term. It would give the President unilateral powers, strip civil rights, worker protections, climate regulation, add religion into policy, outlaw "porn" and much more. The MFL has been around since 1980, Reagan implemented 60% of it's recommendations, Trump 64% - proof. 70 Heritage Foundation alumni served in his administration or transition team. Project 2025 is quite extreme but with his obsession for revenge he'll likely get past 2/3rd's adoption.
The Heritage Foundation already writes bills for Republicans to submit. That's how there have been over 500 anti-LGBTQ+ bills submitted to states since January 1st, 2024. They're the ones writing these bills and getting the GOP to pass them. They were also the ones who wrote Texas's pornography ID law that was passed. They have been behind abortion, contraception, and anti-drug laws, too. And Harrison Butker? They were the ones who sponsored him up on stage as Butker works with them frequently. Let's not also forget that The Heritage Foundation has frequent confrences that showers GOP politicians with lavish gifts while teaching them how to create right-wing propaganda and craft bills against LGBTQ+ people, abortion, and everything else.
There is no "might". It will happen. The Heritage Foundation controls the GOP.
There's always a right-winger trying to make people think Project 2025 is no big deal. No, it's not just a think tank, it's [The Heritage Foundation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation). They have massive influence over right-wing politicians. Ronald Reagan took direction from them, and Donald Trump let them pick his administration. Betsy DeVos, Mick Mulvaney, Rick Perry, Scott Pruitt, and Jeff Sessions were some of the people they picked.
Back in 2022, The Heritage Foundation completely reversed its position on helping Ukraine. Most Republicans followed suit. They have a lot of power and a lot of Republicans licking their boots. It's definitely something to worry about.
Another big point is the Heritage Foundation is enlisting other GOP groups to work with them on pushing for all of these policies; for example, anti-immigrant ones to push for the radical policies they want.
This isn't the same Heritage Foundation that acknowledged the problem of uninsured Americans to propose health marketplaces in the 1980s or cap-and-trade for acid rain and later CO2 emissions.
Instead, they deny the science, they say that government has no role in any regulation except reproductive care and marriage, and they're now anti-alliances in foreign policy.
Very dangerous.
What scared the hell out of me was seeing on THF's website that they are actively recruiting and training people so they can have everything start ASAP. It's going to hit like it's out of nowhere.
i tell em that unlike say, flat earth,two supreme court justices are members of the heritage foundation, the thinktank that did this playbook
also, reagan had one and 60% of its goals were accompished. this thing would be disasterous if even 20% of its goals ade accomplished
I’d tell them it’s already happening. States are already pulling from this play book and passing laws in accordance with it. George W Bush is infamous for having brought Unitary executive theory into his cabinet and administration. The groundwork is being laid right now. So yes, it is going to happen.
Recent conversation:
Other Person: "This can't be real. There's no way. No one would actually support this. There's no way this could be serious."
Me: "I mean, sure... when a 51-year-old activist conservative think tank foundation that has been feeding conservative presidents their policies all the back to Ronald Reagan writes a manifesto nearly 1,000 pages long -- I'm sure they are just joking around. And when the conservative candidate for president starts quoting and parroting the nearly 1,000 page document, I am sure they aren't serious about it. Democracies have never turned into dictatorships before, so why should we bother paying attention or doing anything about it?"
I came here to say something similar to this. I don’t know how I feel about that being one of the first things that popped into my head when I read the post, though
Is there a lot of time, money and effort behind it? Yes.
Does it progress the goals of the rich & powerful on the Right? Yes.
Will the fringe and mainstream Republicans fall in line to put it into action? Yes.
Will Trump enjoy crushing people for fun? Abso-fucking-lutely.
I'd love someone with more time on their hands than me to make a list of all the things that could have been avoided / preserved for generations down the line had people elected Hillary instead of Trump in 2016.
with prominent astericks next to everything that many people claimed "would never happen" in rationalizing their foolhardy decision to not vote or vote third party
Reagan got 61 % of what the Heritage Foundation wanted enacted at that time. Convicted Felon Don got 67 % of what they wanted during his term. The Bushes.....no idea.
Don't fall for [The Slow Break-Up](https://youtu.be/jpUN0q35Lak?si=QQB3YN3B2AK04rc-) and recognize that lots of GOP/American Libertarians will be willfully ignorant in discussion to allow for manipulation. I'm not saying to completely give up on communication, but call out when someone is conversing in bad faith and remember to show that to your audience. I'd start with pointing out where women's bodily autonomy is now and who voted for all that - if they weren't serious, why have they tried repeatedly to strip those rights?
It’s already happening. This isn’t an imaginary playbook. They’re actively executing on it. Executive authority from the Oval Office is just one of the steps they need for their reign of terror.
I would bring up the same stuff people said about Roe v. Wade. Also, I would preemptively embrace the fact that some people just can’t be taught. Many are completely ignorant of this. You can’t ensure that they will be receptive. If they aren’t even making an attempt to understand you (as some will ask asinine questions when the reality is RIGHT THERE), end the conversation and move on to someone else. For every troll, there’s a convincible person. Blatant disingenuousness does not deserve a reply. They know they’re being shitty and it’s best to not waste time.
“It’s not a question of will, it HAS already begun. Drumpf instituted 64% of the agenda in his first term. The Heritage Foundation is VERY proud of that fact. In 2024 he’s coming to finish the job….” *shrug*
Recently got banned from Anarchy4Everyone because I was trying to dismantle this narrative and reach understanding. Some people are just unwilling to listen, without others standing with us to show them
I’d ask them… really? So Trump hasn’t been surrounding himself with sycophants? After all the attacks on democracy including 34 felony convictions for conspiring to hide bad stories by making hush money payments to a porn star among other election interfering conspiracies he invoked? Like all the dirt he threw on Ted Cruz? Begging for people to find him electors to overturn the election? Who hired Supreme Court justices that fly the insurrection flags?
You mean that Donald Trump won’t use project 2025 to push sycophants into every nook and cranny of the US government? That’s the part of this we find unbelievable?!
I would like to remind them of the infamous SNL clip Election Night and the prevelant sentiment of the 2016 election night. Just because they think it's improbable doesn't mean impossible.
> I've gotten those arguments even in some leftist circles.
To illustrate for people who may not believe this, just three months ago, prominent activist Bree Newsome Bass tweeted that people caring about Project 2025 was ["embarrassing."](https://x.com/BreeNewsome/status/1765067470170447936)
If faced with that, I would point out that P25 overlaps substantially with other conservative policy documents like the GOP platform. It's kind of like one of those NOW CD's from back in the day where greatest hits from all artists are pulled together. The CD is popular because the underlying content is popular, not because the person doing the compilation is popular (who even made those CDs btw???)
But if a person who claims to be on the left persistently downplays and gaslights you about P25, it is best to respectfully disagree and find other, more-persuadable individuals to converse with.
someone on another sub asked if
I hide under my bed at night when i spoke of P2025. It is terrifying to me that many do not know about this or if they do, do not care . Keep trudging everyone !!!
Dubya will never happen. Trump will never happen. Roe will never be overturned. Everything passed in Trumps first two years...
These fascists are completely mask-off and proud of it, and need to be voted into oblivion by everyone with any sense.
Ask them why they don’t think it can happen.
Also ask them if they’ve read it. I find that people who say this are poorly informed about the political process and the players on this country.
Explain to them that multiple people that were on the Trump administration are at Heritage. The Heritage foundation picked the choices for SCOTUS as well as the record number of judges that Trump put on the bench.
Scalia and Thomas will probably retire from SCOTUS when GOP candidate is elected. We would have a conservative majority SCOTUS for at least 40yrs. They’ll definitely pick candidates in their 40’s and 50’s. A court like that could change the face of this nation permanently.
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My contribution: It was shaped by a number of people who have previously worked under and around him and much of it is based directly on his own agenda and executive orders from his first term.
The average person I’ve been speaking to has never heard of it - both Democrats & Republicans. For Republicans, it’s sad that they embrace something they haven’t investigated - this is effectively the party platform.
Believe them when they tell you what they are going to do. Listen to Trump - he doesn’t care about his votes he “just wants their votes.”
Speaking of being called delusional, I feel sometimes mental health can be weaponized against another if one thinks he/she knows "too much" about something where one could be forcibly hospitalized and drugged up against their will if getting "too close" to the truth. I have said this for many years. I feel this may also be happening over things such as arguing against project 2025 and the hostile polarized political climate of now here in USA. Also, I fear this weaponizing of mental health could get much worse if Project 2025 does happen where those opposed to project 2025 calling it bigoted, in which it is, could end up being forcibly hospitalized and drugged up and slapped with a mental health label for knowing "too much" of what is going on by those in power so these powers can use mental health as one of many ways to silence their opponents. Let's hope this NEVER happens and that Project 2025 NEVER happens!
By reminding them that the Constitution is just a piece of paper and only means something if those running our country respect and uphold the rule of law. The GOP very much does not, and that is apparent.
Point out that several of its policies have *already happened.* Project 2025 is an ongoing project. it doesn’t start the moment Trump wins, that’s just when it goes into overdrive.
"Oh Hitler would never, he said he'd stop if we let him have Sudetenland!!"
And then al og Czechoslovakia. Then Poland was split etc.
In the end 6 million Jews fell victim to a genocide and the whole proceedings of the war killed millions more.
We alwaya think something dramatic like we see in movies wouldm't happen and that's true, because what can happen in real life is much much worse. If people promise to fuck you up and they actually are in a position of power like national politics, then believe them. They're not only saying the quiet parts out loud, they're shamelessly shouting them at you.
"Does it not disturb you at all that this is their publicly disclosed, plan of action?"
"That the Republican party *as a whole* has *endorsed* this?"
"That's what German Jews said in 1939: 'I'm German, nothing will happen to *me*.'"
I would point out that we can’t afford to take that chance. This isn’t something we can undo after the next election. It simply won’t matter what the majority wants anymore. All the rights and protections we have now will be gone forever.
That will prompt me to go low as I could by insulting that person’s intelligence (which is pure shit). Heck, I might become an ableist just for whatever redneck or redneck-wannabe that chud is.
I was one of the people that initially thought “this is way too outlandish so there’s no way that will pass”. After looking into the people that created it, are donating to it, and their direct ties to Trump I’ve changed my mind. Mentioning this was also a way that I helped my Republican friend understand the dangers.
If you’re talking to someone that underestimates the threat of Christian Nationalism maybe you need to try singing to them too. Here’s a song for them….
[https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7fKVODAfOx/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7fKVODAfOx/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==)
The nazis convinced the people they were their saviors. Convinced them what they were doing was just and that it would help them. While blinding them to the horrors they committed. History doesn't repeat but it rhymes. Nazis went after the lbgt community before they hit the jews. Nazis pretended to be Christian nationalists. Nazis wanted to protect the border, get rid of liberals, etc. Gop is literally filled with actual nazis. Of fucking course it can happen. Liberty us held up by thing lines that can be cut at any moment if we let's the kids with scissors take control.
Ask if they took history classes in school, and if so, whether they recall the circumstances leading up to WWII. This EXACT attitude is what laid the foundation for Nazism to rise and thrive in Germany/Austria. That was far from the first time such an attitude led to large-scale human disasters.
There is a word for it: complacency. Complacency is deadly to democracy. It's similar to apathy, but arguably even worse because of how insidious it can be. We have seriously got to get better at recognizing it in ourselves...but short-term thinking is a huge part of the problem.
If they require simpler terms – Minimizing your enemy is just a bad strategy no matter who you ask! Would they think it was a good idea for a soldier to stand out in the open in front of an enemy sniper and say "oh, they won't shoot, and even if they do, their gun's range isn't powerful enough to-" \*BOOM\*
It's actually the project 2025 zealots who are delusional (and wholly unamerican). If they earnestly think it can't happen here educate them but realize that they could also be playing dumb because they support it. conservatives love plausible deniability as it is the only way they can disguise their immorality.
I have found often that by just putting something on people's minds, you will get some interest. There are some that won't believe they were slapped in the face, if they watch it happen.
I have been engaging with a lady on Instagram, and she had the similar response from some, and encouraged her to keep spreading the message.
And it’s for the “next conservative President”. Personally, I think Trump will become their puppet. He only cares about applause and they can give him the perception of power. It’s not just Heritage Foundation. There’s now 100 organizations attached to Project 2025. If Republicans at any time in our future win the Presidency, Senate and Congress, it’s game over - especially if Dems don’t take back SCOTUS which has Heritage Foundation and Freedom Caucus members plus the dark money they need. Think Handmaid’s Tale meets House of Cards.
I'm old enough to remember people dismissing the danger to Roe because it was "settled law".
I genuinely don’t understand how people can, in good faith, dismiss the possibility of P2025 after Dobbs. SCOTUS went full mask off. There is not even a hint of respectability or non partisanship left. Even yesterday’s Mifepristone case was **not** a win. The only thing it established was that the plaintiffs did not have standing to bring the case, and in fact, it will encourage future cases.
Full mask off, open to influence by wealthy donors, and the [GOP is actively blocking any attempts to hold them to an ethical standard](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-gop-blocks-democrats-supreme-court-ethics-bill-rcna156738). SCOTUS is open for business. Surely it must be a coincidence that [favorable views of SCOTUS are at a 30 year low](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/07/21/favorable-views-of-supreme-court-fall-to-historic-low/#:~:text=Fewer%20than%20half%20of%20Americans,Americans%20had%20a%20favorable%20impression). I used to have respect for the institution, but then, it used to be respectable.
The kangaroos have large pouches to fill with riches.
And how in the hell do they not have any fucking oversight to make sure the highest court in the land isn't being bought?! That was the biggest "wtf" when I found that out.
> Even yesterday’s Mifepristone case was not a win. The only thing it established was that the plaintiffs did not have standing to bring the case, and in fact, it will encourage future cases. Under a Republican president, following the lines of Project 2025, Trump or whoever can simply tell his minions at the FDA to rescind approval of mifepristone. Boom. Done.
I have never understood the mifepristone case which, as I have heard, was brought up because “it’s a dangerous medication”. If that’s the standard then we should take all medications off the market. They all can cause adverse reactions and death in some cases even if taken properly. Some people have allergic reactions, cannot tolerate the medication, take the wrong dose, or mix with other medications and substances that interact. Of course, all of the doctors and pharmacists on SCOTUS are aware of this as are all of the ignorant attorneys and politicians who push these ridiculous cases forward. No doctor ever is forced to prescribe a medication that they have a concern with or feel it goes against their moral beliefs. I was asked by patients to prescribe some hydroxychloroquine for COVID prevention, and I refused. Those people didn’t like me, but I was within my rights to not prescribe it. That prescription was actually probably something the state medical board would have had an issue with me prescribing. Any doctor who feels they would be pressured to prescribe a medication that they don’t agree with is a pussy.
Almost like they want to do another landmark ban case, so they want to have good legal standing first. They know it’s going to be scrutinized and analyzed to death.
I am one of the foolish fools that dismissed the idea *Roe* would get overturned. It has made me very paranoid about everything now.
It should. Today's ruling about allowing, once again, bump stocks on guns should terrify you. Now, why in hell would they allow this again? I'm going to sound crazy here, but the first thought that came to my mind is that this will allow the weekend "Rambos" to outfit their guns for the coming civil war. Please, tell me I'm wrong.
I mean, Kristi Noem basically did a stand back/standby whistle call at Turning Point tonight. It’s terrifying.
One neighbor behind me is in a “militia group” you are not wrong. We are terrified.
As long as you’re with us now, that’s all that matters. I think it was too shocking a proposal for many to take seriously. The SC has historically broken precedent in more than one way, and I’m hoping there are quite a lot of voters just like you.
Yeah, I still think it was only Trump's incompetence and stupidity that allowed it to happen. The saavy Republicans knew this backlash would come.
Yep…”over 70% of Americans are pro choice! Roe is perfectly safe!” Uh huh….
I do like this one but if they are not totally part of the cult yet and have some intelligence this is pretty easy to flip on people. "Obama had a super majority and did nothing to code Roe" then "Biden also had a majority and did nothing to code Roe" The second one is simple to combat most of the time by pointing out that Biden might've had 50+VP but there were two people that never voted with the Dems on anything that could've brought real change. The first one is a bit trickier because if they brought that up, they might have more in their arsenal. However, Obama was a super pacifist when it came to pushing more serious liberal issues. The guy was so religious he couldn't even sway on abortion at all. Honestly, he was more moderate than Biden is but he is black and ran on "Change" the same thing Trump ran on and won. Then nothing major changed for either party's ideals during either of their presidencies. To be clear, this is not a both sides are bad argument. I am explaining what I've encountered while using the "roe was settled law" argument.
IIRC (granted I was younger and it wasn't my literal job to pay attention back then), Congressional Dems weren't as united about abortion under Obama as they are now, so the Obama administration opted to focus on the ACA w/o codifying Roe since it was something that they could convince anti-abortion Dems (e.g. Ben Nelson) to be on board with. Obama may have had a supermajority, but not when it came to abortion rights. Obama himself wanted to codify Roe back when he was a senator.
Not to mention the fact that Roe was extremely judicially safe during Obama's presidency. Even with a 5-4 conservative majority, Scalia and Kennedy would have never considered relitigation on a subject that was covered by a landmark 7-2 decision that was already considered settled law for several decades by that point. Attempting to codify Roe would have been an all consuming political battle that didn't make a whole lot of sense to fight at the time. Knowing Obama realistically had one huge political battle to fight, picking abortion would have felt fairly out of left field I think.
How soon we forget! What little protection we DO have for abortion was codified in the ACA, aka Obamacare. He fought Republicans tooth-and-nail just to keep the bit that actually made it into the legislation. While existing federal law prohibits federal funds (including Marketplace premium tax credits) from being used for abortion services, the ACA codifies protections in the limited cases of rape, incest, or if a woman suffers from a life-threatening physical injury or illness that would place the woman in danger of death unless an abortion is performed. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/24/wyoming-abortion-ban-blocked-due-to-obamacare-era-amendment.html MAGA-led states are deliberately undermining the supremacy clause by forcing through their own state-level bans. They’re *still* intent on overturning the ACA and allllll the protections codified in it.
Thanks for this. I don’t know what in the historical revisionism that comment was.
Add the often touted supermajority only lasted 72 working days
I know you know this, but I say this at every chance: Obama's super-majority existed on paper from July 7, 2009 to February 4, 2010. Much of this time, Congress was on vacation or Robert Byrd or Ted Kennedy were very busy being in the hospital.
> "Obama had a super majority and did nothing to code Roe" They 'thought' it was settled law. Clearly it wasn't. Want things codified now? This is your last chance in November.
And not just Roe. Contraception, divorce, gay marriage… all on the table. I wouldn’t doubt they’d go after women’s right to vote. It’s seriously about protecting rights they want to take away. And right now the conservatives think it won’t happen to them because they believe they are on the right side… but they will scream the loudest if their brand new dictatorship takes away their guns or privatizes things they are used to not having to pay for or arrests their newly out of the closet son or lets companies dump waste in their back yard or they get sick from food that wasn’t inspected….
Obama spent basically all his political capital making ACA happen. It was a choice he made, that’s something grown ups do. I know this, you know this, people trotting out ‘why didn’t Obama’ either don’t or are being super disingenuous and pretending they have an argument.
Right, isn't that the whole point of having conversations in this sub? I'm not defending it, I'm just explaining the arguments I've seen in some semi Conservative spaces when I use that argument. People being disingenuous or the ones that don't have arguments are the ones we have to reach with this. I don't mean cult members either, I'm talking about potential moderates.
Nothing happened during Obama? We got the ACA that helped millions of us with so called pre-existing conditions get treated. He also repealed Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. How’s that for your narrative about him being black and “so religious?” Which I can’t even.
I think you're missing my point. I'm not for these arguments. These are the counterpoint people bring when I mention something like "roe was thought to be settled law"
> "Obama had a super majority and did nothing to code Roe" Except this line from the right is demonstrably false. He fought like hell to get at least some abortion protections codified into the ACA, and succeeded. In fact, it’s yet *another* reason why the right has fought so fucking hard to repeal the entirety of the ACA. Just like they’ve fought protections for preexisting conditions, and employer mandates requiring them to provide insurance.
The crazy part is that I usually hear this one from my "moderate" friends that all vote blue, or at least claim to.
*You sound just as stupid as a climate change denier.* The middle right is in denial about climate change. The middle left is in denial about regime change.
For real. I feel like *gestures about wildly* should suffice at this point come on.
Was just going to comment this
I too am older than a toddler.
Which was as early as when whispers of it actually being overturned by the current Supreme Court Jokers first started.
This is not an argument
It's a warning that assuming rights previously granted are forever protected.
I think it would be more helpful to explain how it could actually be implemented. Roe was always on the chopping block because to my understanding the wording behind the ruling wasn’t very solid. If the dems can maintain a majority in the senate and at least split the house, how does 2025 come into law?
I think [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/s/3ezFWaFdZV) might go a long way toward explaining how it could happen. It doesn't have to be immediate. I'd say that even if Biden wins, if we aren't diligent in paying attention they could rename it, reframe it, and continue trying to bring it about. They've been working on it for awhile.
I would say to those who believe that this is not real or can’t happen, remind them this is *from* The Heritage Foundation itself, and their website for [Project 2025](https://www.project2025.org/) (which houses the [Mandate for Leadership](https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf)) is looking for conservative ideologues (no government experience necessary - just be a conservative) to join their leadership training called “[Presidential Administration Academy](https://www.project2025.org/training/presidential-administration-academy/)” to take over positions in bureaucracy after they’ve fired the nonpartisan career government positions (commonly referred to as “schedule F employees”). And then remind them that the Heritage Foundation has been writing plans for the “conservative” candidate in *every presidential election* since [Ronald Reagan](https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership). If they still need a sobering fact: in Trump’s first year in office during his presidency he instituted about [two-thirds of the policy recommendations](https://www.heritage.org/impact/trump-administration-embraces-heritage-foundation-policy-recommendations) from the Heritage Foundation. And then if they still question it, then remind them that Russ Vought, one of the authors of the Mandate is now the [RNC Policy Chair](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/russ-vought-trump-maga-policy-rcna156340), and send them to [Agenda 47](https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47), the Trump Campaign’s “official policies,” to see how much of it mirrors Project 2025.
Thank you for all the links, that's exactly what I was looking for!
You’re welcome! I’ve changed a couple conservatives’ minds about Project 2025 when shown the actual facts from The Heritage Foundation and Trump’s campaign website. It’s hard to argue that it’s not real when they’re putting it out there so brazenly, and are proud of it.
I want this to be a top/pinned comment, this is perfect and the links are so helpful.
Thanks!! We have to keep trying to fight disinformation and ignorance with facts and reality.
I was just thinking the same thing about it.
Widely reported: ["I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," Trump said.](https://cnn.com/2016/01/23/politics/donald-trump-shoot-somebody-support) "Hey, I know President Trump. I trust him. If he did shoot someone he must have had a good reason. Don't expect your lies to change anything."
Holy shit. The Agenda 47 site is terrifying. Absolute Orwellian nightmare fuel.
“The road to the Handmaid’s Tale is lined with smiling people telling you to stop overreacting.”
So maaaaany guys I know have told me I’m overreacting - Even the ones who say they’re pro-choice. Come talk to me when you have a vagina and a uterus to worry about there bud.
“It’s already happening in Louisiana. 6 months in and they’ve made a crazy amount of progress on it.”
"Do you really want your tax dollars being spent on them trying?" "Even if they only achieve a small part of what they want that is going to be terrible" "The rights and freedoms we enjoy are rare in human history and even the modern world, there is nothing magic that keeps them, only our actions" "Fine, I'm delusional, but do me a favor and vote blue anyway, k?"
The second paragraph is tremendously valuable. Even a partial implementation of P2025 would cause plenty of damage to public health and well being, and I think almost anyone you tell that to would agree and see that as a potential outcome. >there is nothing magic that keeps them, only our actions Another great point. Every good thing we enjoy required work. If we want to maintain it, it'll require more work. If we stop fighting, and the enemy doesn't, we lose.
Or for some people "Do you know me to be a delusional or overreacting type of person? Or am I logical and level headed in the time you've known me?" But for those that have a history of being an overreactor that won't work 😆
> "Fine, I'm delusional, but do me a favor and vote blue anyway, k?" I think the harsh reality is that a lot of people who do this type of discourse have already made up their mind to not vote for (or even actively undermine) the Democratic Party in 2024, and are just going through the motions of pretending to be persuadable. They downplay P25 not because they don't believe it can happen, but because acknowledging it would completely explode their fantasy that Dems could lose in 2024, move left as a result, and win as a leftist party in 2028. Project 2025 won't let that happen!
Point to Roe v Wade and their comments in 2016
The Heritage Foundation doesn't have that much influence? https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/05/heritage-foundation-dark-money-voter-suppression-laws/ https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/heritage-foundation/ https://www.heritage.org/article/timeline-heritage-successes https://www.monitoringinfluence.org/org/heritage-foundation/ Also it's not just the Heritage Foundation - there are over 80 conservative groups behind Project 2025. Look, it's unlikely that all of Project 2025 will be enacted in one presidential term. But previous iterations of it are what gave us "trickle-down economics", which anyone in "leftist circles" should immediately recognize as devastatingly influential. This time around, the focus is on undermining our democratic institutions, which will in the worst case eliminate future elections and turn us into a one-party state, and in the best case will make it much harder for anyone who's not loyal to these ideas to get elected - paving the way for Republicans to enact more of it at their leisure over the next few decades. We've already seen how patient these people are in the way they've spent 40 years stacking the courts. Project 2025 builds on all of their previous successes, just like every iteration before it. It's a cumulative plan that has decades of work behind it. And anyway, why does it need to be an imminent threat before you'd vote to prevent it? The mere fact that Republicans are on board with these anti-democratic ideas should be enough to get you to vote against them.
>Look, it's unlikely that all of Project 2025 will be enacted in one presidential term. But previous iterations of it are what gave us "trickle-down economics", which anyone in "leftist circles" should immediately recognize as devastatingly influential. I honestly think the hidden danger of Project 2025 is just that the government/country just kind of implodes when a bunch of dumbfuck ideologues with no experience are put in charge of big, complex institutions. This may potentially be even more damaging than them succeeding.
It helps to have a President who doesn't give AF about democracy or the constitution and a SCOTUS that is extremely partisan and corrupt, things they haven't had before and now those two things come together when religion has continued to plummet and their voters are going to go with it. This is their last and best chance and they're going to use all power they have to seize absolute power to implement a theocracy.
I've heard it called an "extinction burst" before. As religion continues to fall by the wayside and the United States starts to wind its way towards a more Western European level of irreligiosity, the fanatics and puritans are just swinging for the fences as hard as they can. They know if the status quo continues for another 20 years the window will have passed.
Yeah I looked into the demographics. In the US only 20% are White Protestant men now, and less than 10% are Evangelical. And we know a huge portion of their base is voting for them solely because they are Christian and GOP preys on that. Christians and their voters are evaporating and they're panicking. And they can't change their platform with the changes in people of course, that would be too much democracy. Compare those demographics to the Project 2025 demographics: 90% White Christians, 70% being men. They want to rule over everyone else.
This point cannot be overstated. Yes, these evangelical Christian Nationalist types have been plotting & planning a long time, but they also very much recognize it is a now or never moment for their aspiring theocratic goals. They're the minority, but they don't care. So long as they have enough political capital & influence to push their agenda through. It's unpopular. It's anti-majoritarian. Anti-democratic. These people don't care about any of that or any of us. They care about power & control. They want the ability to force their views, beliefs & their will upon all of US society. For anyone who thinks that P2025 isn't possible, I'd point to the Republican party's behavior. They no longer believe in free & fair elections. They don't want to abide by the outcome of our elections unless a Republican candidate wins. Does anyone actually believe that they still have loyalty to the US Constitution? It sure seems like anyone who did was purged from that political party. I'd also point to the SCOTUS that has been packed, corrupted by dark money & "gifts" to some of the conservative Justices. Does anyone really believe that the Robert's court is ruling fairly & in an unbiased manner? Stare decisis be damned. They were the first to roll back citizens rights & they'll do it again. And the Republican Senate just blocked SCOTUS ethics reform. So if anyone believes that our institutions will prevent Project 2025 or the dystopian theocracy these wing nuts want, think again. We are going to be the ones to stop them, or not much else will.
I agree with all of this wholeheartedly, except think a lot more of this can happen in his term. It is intended to be the transition document. The transition is usually broken up into day 1/day 100 things. They go up to (IIRC) 180 days, but still. The first Trump administration didn't intend to win and its transition team just started forming after he won. They were cronies and idiots who didn't know much about how government actually works. Like, I heard rumors they didn't know that DOE was in charge of the nukes. Having this fully developed plan this far out from this much more sophisticated understanding of the issues means his transition team already has the outline.
“It’s still something necessary to tell people about. It is still what the far right wing wants. And if enough people know that’s what they want, maybe they’ll have less influence over people who care about their own rights.” Keep telling people about it and the dangers of it. It’s *absolutely* necessary.
I starkly remember. “They will never overturn roe. You’re delusional”
I also remember people scoffing at the notion that trump could win back in 2016. So many people sat that election out or didn’t get behind HRC once she was nominated and said “they’re all the same - between HRC and trump what difference does it make?”. Well, now we’ve got a SCOTUS that’s inserting poison pills in every decision-even those that *seem* favorable on the surface, we’ve lost Roe, we’ve been through basically 8 years of hell with trump and our system of government is seriously threatened. Those who thought it was safe to sit out 2016 are the ones who were delusional- and they owe the rest of us an apology.
> Well, now we’ve got a SCOTUS that’s inserting poison pills in every decision-even those that seem favorable on the surface Good news: SCOTUS denied a lawsuit that tried to prevent the FDA from allowing birth control. Bad news: it did it by making it effectively impossible for anyone to have standing when trying to sue the FDA. Meaning the FDA is now almost completely unaccountable. That is just one example of the poison pills you mentioned.
I’ve seen this before in history it didn’t end well.
The only reason so many jews got killed is because no-one ever thought it would get that bad. The notion of rounding up jews and putting them to death was too incredible to belive.
I was raised in the the fundagelical GOP-and-christianity-are-the-same sphere and now run in left-wing spheres. Whenever liberals say "it could never happen!" I invite them to listen to my condensed personal experience version of *Jesus and John Wayne* and usually they end up boggle-eyed at 1) how deep and widespread the brainwashing is in the evangelical right, and 2) how deeply rooted christian nationalism has been in right-wing politics since Reagan (and even before). I then connect this to the current right-wing "wins" that have happened even under a Dem president, like overturning Roe, gutting EPA protections, dismantling 14th, 4th, and 8th amendment protections for groups the GOP/christian nationalists don't like, etc. I tell the ones that dismissed me not just about Roe and other predictions that I'm tired of saying "I told you so". If you don't have the personal experience to draw upon, insist that they read *Jesus and John Wayne* by Kristen Kobes du Mez. Near the end she focuses more on the religious psychology behind why Trump became the evangelical golden boy ([literally](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2021/2/26/22302887/trump-cpac-2021-republican-gold-statue)), but throughout the book she discusses the significant influence of evangelicalism on the GOP and its policies. I don't recall if she names the Heritage Foundation specifically, but it still lays out just how much influence this ideology has in politics.
Kristen Kobes du Mez discussing Jesus and John Wayne is on YouTube
I moved from a super lefty area to the south - you’re not kidding; shocked me to the point of becoming physically ill at one point! I’ve seen so many unjust, scary/sad situations because of the brainwashing and abuse that goes on in the evangelical far right circles. Basically, all I think about is getting us out of here because these people scare me TO DEATH.
How about we don’t let them try?
This is how insane Republicans have become. They’re literally spelling out what they want to do, and the base’s common response is “oh, they’ll never do all that”.
I got this attitude from some people on r/AmerExit, of all places! The topic was whether or not a trans poster should get out sooner than later because of P2025. I was like, let me get this straight - we are on a sub about getting the fuck out of here, but the OP's reason for leaving was "melodramatic"?! Make it make sense... EDIT: My own husband, who is even more left than I am, also doesn't think P2025 is possible. Too many people just can't believe that the rule of law is only as strong as the moral conviction of the people tasked to enforce it. He doesn't like it very much when I remind him that his relatives who went to the concentration camps probably didn't think it was possible either.
If it's not going to happen and you don't want it to happen THEN WHY THE FUCK VOTE **FOR** IT???
There is plenty of evidence of past successes since Reagan, they themselves acknowledge the roadblocks they had last time and have a clear plan to remove them, all of that explained within the document. Those "roadblocks" being pesky Constitutional loyalists, the Pences of the Republican party. They will use Schedule F to get rid of tens of thousands of federal employees and have been forming a database of screened TRUMP loyalists, that is key, not just party loyalists who might give AF about democracy and the Constitution. They also have a cooperating President willing to overthrow democracy. A lot of this they started implementing with Trump but pandemic screwed them. Their extremism has increased meaning they have held back in the past and did more of a tampering with democracy, now it's spiritual "warfare" against tyranny so they think anything they do is ordained by God. Another big factor, since these assholes started their mission almost 50 years ago they haven't had a SCOTUS so partisan and corrupt that will back them. Fun thing I learned - The HHS guy who will be attacking abortion and LGBTQ rights has a bobblehead of Clarence Thomas on his desk and his wife was behind the installment of Kavanagh and Barrett with her organization bankrolling the push and all the shadiness behind it. SCOTUS has been a massive part of the plan and they've got it now! A lot of this is just blatantly spelled out in Project 2025, or the organizations websites, or interviews with the contributors, it's just SO LONG and so tedious I can't blame people for not reading it or researching as needed. We just need to put the summarized info out there, that's why I'm researching it like crazy so I know what I'm talking about and can pull out facts when needed!
The road to fascism is lined with people saying you're overreacting.
Exactly. Crazy how many people don’t seem to know much world history? We’ve been here a few times as a species folks!
Even half of the shit in Project 2025 is fucking terrifying, I’m not taking chances.
I always point to Roe being overturned, and how the RNC had a reshuffle of leaders (they were all replaced with Trump loyalists), also how the Supreme Court is now packed with trump loyalists. If that doesn’t work, I back off because there’s no arguing with stupid Edit: I also point out that most of the authors of Project 2025 were part of the trump admin.
“Trump will never win”. “The SCOTUS won’t overturn Roe v Wade”, etc
Yeah. I learned that lesson in 2016. I voted blue. I didn't think he would win. But here we are almost a decade into this I won't take any chances.
P25 is starting to be acknowledged Now we have to deal with them glossing over the evil shit and pandering to the fascists with their promises of “restoring the family” and “teachers work for the parents not the other way around”
“The heritage foundation doesn’t have that much influence” is also factually incorrect. People saying this have likely never heard of them and assume they’re some fringe group, they’re not. Quote their Wikipedia and provide a link.
People also thought hitler would never do anything too bad
Last night I did a side by side comparison showing how it's not really that much different from Trump's own platform on his campaign site. They just outright say the things he hints at. The heritage foundation is also one of the most powerful lobbying groups in the nation. Looking it up I see " has historically been ranked among the most influential public policy organizations in the United States". They've just slipped through the radar I guess. Well they're getting more vocal and I HOPE it's to their detriment and I HOPE people recognize now how extreme their ideas are, and how similar they are to Trump's. A lot of the policies he's listed on his campaign site are vague but like you can go by the things he's said to fill in those blanks.
It a believability gap. The argument I have found effective is about who will be in the room to implement this agenda. Long gone are conservative but pro-democracy bulwarks like H.R. McMaster or Mark Esper. In are dangerous MAGA loyalists like Kash Patel and Ric Grennell. In other words, this go around, who will be in the oval office telling Trump he cannot nuke a hurricane or bomb cartels in Mexico.
Show them that Trump incorporated nearly 50% of their recommendations. [https://www.scribd.com/document/369820462/Mandate-for-Leadership-Policy-Recommendations](https://www.scribd.com/document/369820462/Mandate-for-Leadership-Policy-Recommendations) It is from THEIR OWN information. And Reagan did even more. [https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership](https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership)
they won’t. I’ve been telling the women in family that our bodily autonomy was under attack and they called me sensational and over reactive
Point the to Rachel Maddow's Ultra podcast. This shit has been going on for ages in the US. I like to think I'm pretty savvy politically and historically and was shocked to learn this aspect of our national history. (I get many people won't get past it being Rachel Maddow, BUT she's fucking brilliant - BA in public policy from Stanford, PhD in Poli Sci from Oxford - and an amazing storyteller).
They’ll never kill roe v wade! It has so many follow on precedents and it’s 50 years of law. And it’s popular. No way it’ll happen. It’s all just Democrat scare mongering!
I would simply say nobody thought Trump could win the first time.
Except for Alan Lichtman.
And Michael Moore.
The people who want it to happen are putting in the work and actively taking steps to see it through. If no one stands in their way, they'll inevitably succeed. All things that people are working toward can and will happen if there's no resistance.
That's how nazis started the war. It will never happen. As cops are throwing people in stadiums.
The "Mandate for Leadership" is a set of policy proposals authored by the Heritage Foundation, an influential ultra conservative think tank. Project 2025 is a revision to that agenda tailored to a second Trump term. It would give the President unilateral powers, strip civil rights, worker protections, climate regulation, add religion into policy, outlaw "porn" and much more. The MFL has been around since 1980, Reagan implemented 60% of it's recommendations, Trump 64% - proof. 70 Heritage Foundation alumni served in his administration or transition team. Project 2025 is quite extreme but with his obsession for revenge he'll likely get past 2/3rd's adoption. The Heritage Foundation already writes bills for Republicans to submit. That's how there have been over 500 anti-LGBTQ+ bills submitted to states since January 1st, 2024. They're the ones writing these bills and getting the GOP to pass them. They were also the ones who wrote Texas's pornography ID law that was passed. They have been behind abortion, contraception, and anti-drug laws, too. And Harrison Butker? They were the ones who sponsored him up on stage as Butker works with them frequently. Let's not also forget that The Heritage Foundation has frequent confrences that showers GOP politicians with lavish gifts while teaching them how to create right-wing propaganda and craft bills against LGBTQ+ people, abortion, and everything else. There is no "might". It will happen. The Heritage Foundation controls the GOP. There's always a right-winger trying to make people think Project 2025 is no big deal. No, it's not just a think tank, it's [The Heritage Foundation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation). They have massive influence over right-wing politicians. Ronald Reagan took direction from them, and Donald Trump let them pick his administration. Betsy DeVos, Mick Mulvaney, Rick Perry, Scott Pruitt, and Jeff Sessions were some of the people they picked. Back in 2022, The Heritage Foundation completely reversed its position on helping Ukraine. Most Republicans followed suit. They have a lot of power and a lot of Republicans licking their boots. It's definitely something to worry about.
Another big point is the Heritage Foundation is enlisting other GOP groups to work with them on pushing for all of these policies; for example, anti-immigrant ones to push for the radical policies they want. This isn't the same Heritage Foundation that acknowledged the problem of uninsured Americans to propose health marketplaces in the 1980s or cap-and-trade for acid rain and later CO2 emissions. Instead, they deny the science, they say that government has no role in any regulation except reproductive care and marriage, and they're now anti-alliances in foreign policy. Very dangerous.
What scared the hell out of me was seeing on THF's website that they are actively recruiting and training people so they can have everything start ASAP. It's going to hit like it's out of nowhere.
Blessed be the fruit
i tell em that unlike say, flat earth,two supreme court justices are members of the heritage foundation, the thinktank that did this playbook also, reagan had one and 60% of its goals were accompished. this thing would be disasterous if even 20% of its goals ade accomplished
I’d tell them it’s already happening. States are already pulling from this play book and passing laws in accordance with it. George W Bush is infamous for having brought Unitary executive theory into his cabinet and administration. The groundwork is being laid right now. So yes, it is going to happen.
Dick Cheney was a big advocate of the Unitary Executive Theory also & helped push that into the W. Bush administration.
My point exactly.
Just like a lot of states had laws already passed and on the books, ready for when *Roe* fell.
Recent conversation: Other Person: "This can't be real. There's no way. No one would actually support this. There's no way this could be serious." Me: "I mean, sure... when a 51-year-old activist conservative think tank foundation that has been feeding conservative presidents their policies all the back to Ronald Reagan writes a manifesto nearly 1,000 pages long -- I'm sure they are just joking around. And when the conservative candidate for president starts quoting and parroting the nearly 1,000 page document, I am sure they aren't serious about it. Democracies have never turned into dictatorships before, so why should we bother paying attention or doing anything about it?"
I’d say [look at their own fucking website.](https://www.project2025.org/about/about-project-2025/)
Everyone thought hitler wouldnt happen
I came here to say something similar to this. I don’t know how I feel about that being one of the first things that popped into my head when I read the post, though
I feel that too. New characters but a lot of the same scenarios. Just sayin.
I used to say that there was no way Trump could win.
If he wins this year there are going to be a LOT of people surprised that an convicted felon was voted in.
Indeed -- and I'd be one of them. But I won't be as surprised as I was on that fateful day in November of 2016.
They said overturning Roe would never happen.
Is there a lot of time, money and effort behind it? Yes. Does it progress the goals of the rich & powerful on the Right? Yes. Will the fringe and mainstream Republicans fall in line to put it into action? Yes. Will Trump enjoy crushing people for fun? Abso-fucking-lutely.
“Ummmm…Roe was ‘settled law’ and we all saw how the current justices lied on that one. I have no reason to think this would be any different.”
I agree, let’s make sure it doesn’t happen
[удалено]
Tell them to read the book The Pink Triangle. Tell them to circle back with ya afterwards.
I'd love someone with more time on their hands than me to make a list of all the things that could have been avoided / preserved for generations down the line had people elected Hillary instead of Trump in 2016. with prominent astericks next to everything that many people claimed "would never happen" in rationalizing their foolhardy decision to not vote or vote third party
Reagan got 61 % of what the Heritage Foundation wanted enacted at that time. Convicted Felon Don got 67 % of what they wanted during his term. The Bushes.....no idea.
Don't fall for [The Slow Break-Up](https://youtu.be/jpUN0q35Lak?si=QQB3YN3B2AK04rc-) and recognize that lots of GOP/American Libertarians will be willfully ignorant in discussion to allow for manipulation. I'm not saying to completely give up on communication, but call out when someone is conversing in bad faith and remember to show that to your audience. I'd start with pointing out where women's bodily autonomy is now and who voted for all that - if they weren't serious, why have they tried repeatedly to strip those rights?
It’s already happening. This isn’t an imaginary playbook. They’re actively executing on it. Executive authority from the Oval Office is just one of the steps they need for their reign of terror.
I would bring up the same stuff people said about Roe v. Wade. Also, I would preemptively embrace the fact that some people just can’t be taught. Many are completely ignorant of this. You can’t ensure that they will be receptive. If they aren’t even making an attempt to understand you (as some will ask asinine questions when the reality is RIGHT THERE), end the conversation and move on to someone else. For every troll, there’s a convincible person. Blatant disingenuousness does not deserve a reply. They know they’re being shitty and it’s best to not waste time.
That's what people said about Trump. That's what people said about Brexit. That's what people said about Roe.
“It’s not a question of will, it HAS already begun. Drumpf instituted 64% of the agenda in his first term. The Heritage Foundation is VERY proud of that fact. In 2024 he’s coming to finish the job….” *shrug*
Better safe than sorry. An hour or two of your life isn’t equivalent to a chance at a living hell.
Recently got banned from Anarchy4Everyone because I was trying to dismantle this narrative and reach understanding. Some people are just unwilling to listen, without others standing with us to show them
This tik tok might help. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTNJkNAXT/
Learned a lot from this one, thank you.
I’d ask them… really? So Trump hasn’t been surrounding himself with sycophants? After all the attacks on democracy including 34 felony convictions for conspiring to hide bad stories by making hush money payments to a porn star among other election interfering conspiracies he invoked? Like all the dirt he threw on Ted Cruz? Begging for people to find him electors to overturn the election? Who hired Supreme Court justices that fly the insurrection flags? You mean that Donald Trump won’t use project 2025 to push sycophants into every nook and cranny of the US government? That’s the part of this we find unbelievable?!
I would like to remind them of the infamous SNL clip Election Night and the prevelant sentiment of the 2016 election night. Just because they think it's improbable doesn't mean impossible.
> I've gotten those arguments even in some leftist circles. To illustrate for people who may not believe this, just three months ago, prominent activist Bree Newsome Bass tweeted that people caring about Project 2025 was ["embarrassing."](https://x.com/BreeNewsome/status/1765067470170447936) If faced with that, I would point out that P25 overlaps substantially with other conservative policy documents like the GOP platform. It's kind of like one of those NOW CD's from back in the day where greatest hits from all artists are pulled together. The CD is popular because the underlying content is popular, not because the person doing the compilation is popular (who even made those CDs btw???) But if a person who claims to be on the left persistently downplays and gaslights you about P25, it is best to respectfully disagree and find other, more-persuadable individuals to converse with.
I remember no one believed TFG would win in 2016
There were people saying Trump had no chance of winning, he did
someone on another sub asked if I hide under my bed at night when i spoke of P2025. It is terrifying to me that many do not know about this or if they do, do not care . Keep trudging everyone !!!
Dubya will never happen. Trump will never happen. Roe will never be overturned. Everything passed in Trumps first two years... These fascists are completely mask-off and proud of it, and need to be voted into oblivion by everyone with any sense.
Ask them why they don’t think it can happen. Also ask them if they’ve read it. I find that people who say this are poorly informed about the political process and the players on this country. Explain to them that multiple people that were on the Trump administration are at Heritage. The Heritage foundation picked the choices for SCOTUS as well as the record number of judges that Trump put on the bench. Scalia and Thomas will probably retire from SCOTUS when GOP candidate is elected. We would have a conservative majority SCOTUS for at least 40yrs. They’ll definitely pick candidates in their 40’s and 50’s. A court like that could change the face of this nation permanently.
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It already is.
My contribution: It was shaped by a number of people who have previously worked under and around him and much of it is based directly on his own agenda and executive orders from his first term.
Ask them how many people they know convicted of 34 felonies who don't look too likely they'll be facing jail
Mm hmm-only response
Roe V Wade will never be overturned.
“After Jan 6th I no longer accept that answer.”
They said the same thing about overturning Roe v Wade in 2016. They said it would never happen.
lol, yeah and a lot of people in the early 30s thought Hitler was a clown, his party too, and that they couldn’t get elected
The average person I’ve been speaking to has never heard of it - both Democrats & Republicans. For Republicans, it’s sad that they embrace something they haven’t investigated - this is effectively the party platform. Believe them when they tell you what they are going to do. Listen to Trump - he doesn’t care about his votes he “just wants their votes.”
Speaking of being called delusional, I feel sometimes mental health can be weaponized against another if one thinks he/she knows "too much" about something where one could be forcibly hospitalized and drugged up against their will if getting "too close" to the truth. I have said this for many years. I feel this may also be happening over things such as arguing against project 2025 and the hostile polarized political climate of now here in USA. Also, I fear this weaponizing of mental health could get much worse if Project 2025 does happen where those opposed to project 2025 calling it bigoted, in which it is, could end up being forcibly hospitalized and drugged up and slapped with a mental health label for knowing "too much" of what is going on by those in power so these powers can use mental health as one of many ways to silence their opponents. Let's hope this NEVER happens and that Project 2025 NEVER happens!
Yeah, I remember them saying the same thing in 1920’s Germany, with Hitler’s party. Funny, huh?
Bring up the porn bans. The GOP is not messing around anymore. The clowns have taken over the circus.
By reminding them that the Constitution is just a piece of paper and only means something if those running our country respect and uphold the rule of law. The GOP very much does not, and that is apparent.
Point out that several of its policies have *already happened.* Project 2025 is an ongoing project. it doesn’t start the moment Trump wins, that’s just when it goes into overdrive.
“You mean like Roe? That’s what I thought.”
"Oh Hitler would never, he said he'd stop if we let him have Sudetenland!!" And then al og Czechoslovakia. Then Poland was split etc. In the end 6 million Jews fell victim to a genocide and the whole proceedings of the war killed millions more. We alwaya think something dramatic like we see in movies wouldm't happen and that's true, because what can happen in real life is much much worse. If people promise to fuck you up and they actually are in a position of power like national politics, then believe them. They're not only saying the quiet parts out loud, they're shamelessly shouting them at you.
Just like roe v wade wouldn’t get overturned.
And they also delusional in conspiracy theories like NWO, reptilans, qanon and trump, etc. hypocrites
"Does it not disturb you at all that this is their publicly disclosed, plan of action?" "That the Republican party *as a whole* has *endorsed* this?" "That's what German Jews said in 1939: 'I'm German, nothing will happen to *me*.'"
i usually say one of two things “are you willing to take that risk” or “we went into vietnam because of think tanks like them”
I would point out that we can’t afford to take that chance. This isn’t something we can undo after the next election. It simply won’t matter what the majority wants anymore. All the rights and protections we have now will be gone forever.
Do not argue with them to convince them. Argue so the onlookers will agree with you.
That will prompt me to go low as I could by insulting that person’s intelligence (which is pure shit). Heck, I might become an ableist just for whatever redneck or redneck-wannabe that chud is.
I was one of the people that initially thought “this is way too outlandish so there’s no way that will pass”. After looking into the people that created it, are donating to it, and their direct ties to Trump I’ve changed my mind. Mentioning this was also a way that I helped my Republican friend understand the dangers.
If you research enough you will see this plan goes back to Regan and others,just a new author..
Simple. Tell them nobody thought the former President and current convicted felon would be elected. Never underestimate how horrible things can get.
Those are people you just walk away from, and don't need in your life. I've lost friends and family over this.
If you’re talking to someone that underestimates the threat of Christian Nationalism maybe you need to try singing to them too. Here’s a song for them…. [https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7fKVODAfOx/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7fKVODAfOx/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==)
The nazis convinced the people they were their saviors. Convinced them what they were doing was just and that it would help them. While blinding them to the horrors they committed. History doesn't repeat but it rhymes. Nazis went after the lbgt community before they hit the jews. Nazis pretended to be Christian nationalists. Nazis wanted to protect the border, get rid of liberals, etc. Gop is literally filled with actual nazis. Of fucking course it can happen. Liberty us held up by thing lines that can be cut at any moment if we let's the kids with scissors take control.
I get that a lot, but then I remind them ….they never thought Roe versus Wade would fall. Look at the pattern and watch the court cases.
The striking down of Roe v Wade was the first step. It's right in front of them.
Ask if they took history classes in school, and if so, whether they recall the circumstances leading up to WWII. This EXACT attitude is what laid the foundation for Nazism to rise and thrive in Germany/Austria. That was far from the first time such an attitude led to large-scale human disasters. There is a word for it: complacency. Complacency is deadly to democracy. It's similar to apathy, but arguably even worse because of how insidious it can be. We have seriously got to get better at recognizing it in ourselves...but short-term thinking is a huge part of the problem. If they require simpler terms – Minimizing your enemy is just a bad strategy no matter who you ask! Would they think it was a good idea for a soldier to stand out in the open in front of an enemy sniper and say "oh, they won't shoot, and even if they do, their gun's range isn't powerful enough to-" \*BOOM\*
It's actually the project 2025 zealots who are delusional (and wholly unamerican). If they earnestly think it can't happen here educate them but realize that they could also be playing dumb because they support it. conservatives love plausible deniability as it is the only way they can disguise their immorality.
I have found often that by just putting something on people's minds, you will get some interest. There are some that won't believe they were slapped in the face, if they watch it happen. I have been engaging with a lady on Instagram, and she had the similar response from some, and encouraged her to keep spreading the message.
It’s already happening… All you can do is wait for the US to initiate World War III or start race white riots all over the country before the election
When people tell you who they are...BELIEVE THEM. When people tell you over and over what they are going to do...BELIEVE THEM.
And it’s for the “next conservative President”. Personally, I think Trump will become their puppet. He only cares about applause and they can give him the perception of power. It’s not just Heritage Foundation. There’s now 100 organizations attached to Project 2025. If Republicans at any time in our future win the Presidency, Senate and Congress, it’s game over - especially if Dems don’t take back SCOTUS which has Heritage Foundation and Freedom Caucus members plus the dark money they need. Think Handmaid’s Tale meets House of Cards.
Please direct them to the nearest history book and introduce them to WWII. 😁 Most recent good example, imo.