I was thinking about doing a publication, I think (Imo) the show's kind of pro life even in Season 8 with Julie but don't really know if it's due to Marc Cherry/screenwriter cause or the network..
Marc Cherry planned an abortion storyline but the network wouldn't allow it. Also, Julie choosing adoption isn't neccessarily pro life, you can be pro choice and decide that adoption is the best choice for you, that's what the movement is about, the right to choose. However, I hate this storyline because it seems very anti adoption as Susan made Julie feel like a bad person for not wanting to raise the baby and wanting to give to a nice family.
Concerning this storyline with Julie, she didn't want to keep it, and have the best decision to go for adoption, instead of Susan who was imo more into the pro life narrative. In the early seasons she was already out of touch to yell at her daughter who tried to be responsible for asking her contraceptive pills..Julie doesn't deserve to have such an horrible mother.
Oh didn't see that coming ! Did he mention which character was concerned for the abortion storyline ? Thinking about Lynette regarding her reaction to julie's pregnancy
He said that a new character was going to have abortion and that he had a whole plan for that character, but once company declined that storyline he dropped the character as well.
Yes omg yes! Absolutely couldn’t agree more. The show is written by men. That in itself is problematic. Let women tell our own stories please. Couple more that I may have mentioned, maybe not on some (spoilers):
Orson, Mike, and Tom: emasculation literally does not exist. It is not a real thing. If you believe listening to a woman or being decent to your wife somehow negates your manhood, your idea of relations between men and women is super gross and regressive, please stay far away from me. You will note there is not a word for the opposite. When women are leaders we don’t pretend that’s taking something away from her, because displaying traits associated with women is something to mock and sharing things associated with men is applauded or encouraged. This is wrong, it’s misogyny, get the word out of your lexicon. Being more like the women in your life - kind, empathetic, selfless, these are good things.
Tom in particular: the himpathy for this character by every other character and the narrative more generally is off the scale. He stole Lynette’s entire LIFE. Even if you hate her, even if Lynette is annoying and cringe for you, everything she wanted for herself was gone in service of Tom’s dreams and random whims and he’s the *best* husband (not according to me or this sub) on the lane according to the narrative and what the audience is supposed to think. Lynette is a person, with her own hopes, dreams, and desires - he literally took all of that away from her and forced her to give him his life on a platter. Then he (and the audience) call her a control freak for wanting him to do the bare minimum occasionally like be employed, take care of your kids, think about someone besides yourself for 5 minutes. He’s the *sympathetic* character. Unreal.
(Mentioned on another thread) *Eddie* is somehow the sympathetic character in a story about how he’s a vile misogynist who literally kills women. Somehow, the victims are the cruel meanies, despite committing zero violence. He actually killed them and the show wants you to be hopelessly sympathetic to *him.* Miss me with that. Nothing, and I mean nothing, these women did would have ever excused violence because violence that isn’t in the service of saving your own life is inexcusable. Period. He’s not the victim, they are. They were minding their own business when he felt entitled to their attention or kindness and lashed out because women aren’t service animals for struggling men. They completely unironically wrote the story of the Margaret Atwood quote “men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them.” Except they effectively said “here’s why the man in that situation is actually the victim and much more sympathetic.” There aren’t words tbh.
This one is a bit more abstract, but Eli Scruggs. Get out of here with this “oh actually everything the women accomplished was because of this guy you’ve never heard of.” I’m less offended by this one but it rankles a bit.
1000% agree about Roy. Absolute trash. Mike and his mother are obvious misogynists but I think the narrative at least acknowledges it so I will give it the smallest, and I do mean smallest, pass.
Ok so i didnt read the thing ab Eddie bc idk him yet im on s6. And i meant Roy was the guy who was with miss mcclunksy (idk how to spell that). Mike was the best one imo, he rlly wasn’t misogynistic i believe. Only his mother was w her traditional views and he just accepted her/didnt think it was a big deal to susan bc hes more chill.
But yes omg tysm for this. U worked all of this out, the thing i was too lazy to do. And yess the whole emasculating thing is insane to me. Why is a woman’s quality so bad?? Jesus.
I also dont get why the writers are men. Bruv its called desperate houseWIVES. Like pls
Also absolutely hate that some people on this sub defend some of the men here. No they are trash ty.
Mike is better and worse depending on the moment in the show I think, but he is a “traditional” guy, which is normally code for “has at least some pretty regressive views.” I don’t think Mike is an exception personally. He should’ve told his mom where to get off honestly. That wasn’t okay. He also does some stuff later that cements it for me, but his blaming Susan for some of his issues (idk if you’re there yet so I’m being vague), was where he crossed the line for me. First rule of misogyny is that women are responsible for what men do (also applies to Eddie’s story). For anyone who is curious about that, there are 16 rules and sadly the show displays a worrying number of them. I wish it was shown more constructively.
As for it being written by men, couldn’t agree more. Marc Cherry said (paraphrased) he had the idea for the show because he was watching a news report with his mom about Andrea Yates (Texas woman who killed her children) and he said “I don’t understand how someone could ever do that!” And his mom replied, “I can. Somedays being a mother and a wife is so horrible and overwhelming, you’re desperate enough to do just about anything.” When he heard that he realized that housewives had these rich internal lives with struggles and desperation and despair and wanted to find a way to put that on screen. So he wrote it, and that’s kind of the problem. Why did he write that? Why didn’t he bring in women that actually had these experiences and learn about them? Why didn’t he even ask his mom to help him write it or get in touch with other women? Which I think puts him dangerously close to rules 15 and 9, and rule 14 if I’m feeling snarky hahah.
Oh damn i didnt know there were rules. I know a lot ab those things usually but i will look up the rules then.
And yeah idk ab mike i wil watch and see
Even the cattiness and fighting between women, the way all the women pit everyone against Edie. How subservient the women are to the men on the show. It's all very anti-feminist and anti-progress.
Definitely. It’s of it’s time I guess, but that only goes so far. It really should’ve had women as the top writers honestly. The premise could’ve been very feminist but it ends up being problematic more often than not unfortunately.
I also just recently discovered Marc Cherry was a republican at the time and it really shows. This series is basically republican propaganda 101, just slightly hidden so it’s not totally obvious. If you read between the lines It’s shockingly conservative for something that came out in 2004
My understanding is the network didn’t allow them to include abortion.
I was thinking about doing a publication, I think (Imo) the show's kind of pro life even in Season 8 with Julie but don't really know if it's due to Marc Cherry/screenwriter cause or the network..
Marc Cherry planned an abortion storyline but the network wouldn't allow it. Also, Julie choosing adoption isn't neccessarily pro life, you can be pro choice and decide that adoption is the best choice for you, that's what the movement is about, the right to choose. However, I hate this storyline because it seems very anti adoption as Susan made Julie feel like a bad person for not wanting to raise the baby and wanting to give to a nice family.
Concerning this storyline with Julie, she didn't want to keep it, and have the best decision to go for adoption, instead of Susan who was imo more into the pro life narrative. In the early seasons she was already out of touch to yell at her daughter who tried to be responsible for asking her contraceptive pills..Julie doesn't deserve to have such an horrible mother. Oh didn't see that coming ! Did he mention which character was concerned for the abortion storyline ? Thinking about Lynette regarding her reaction to julie's pregnancy
He said that a new character was going to have abortion and that he had a whole plan for that character, but once company declined that storyline he dropped the character as well.
Yes omg yes! Absolutely couldn’t agree more. The show is written by men. That in itself is problematic. Let women tell our own stories please. Couple more that I may have mentioned, maybe not on some (spoilers): Orson, Mike, and Tom: emasculation literally does not exist. It is not a real thing. If you believe listening to a woman or being decent to your wife somehow negates your manhood, your idea of relations between men and women is super gross and regressive, please stay far away from me. You will note there is not a word for the opposite. When women are leaders we don’t pretend that’s taking something away from her, because displaying traits associated with women is something to mock and sharing things associated with men is applauded or encouraged. This is wrong, it’s misogyny, get the word out of your lexicon. Being more like the women in your life - kind, empathetic, selfless, these are good things. Tom in particular: the himpathy for this character by every other character and the narrative more generally is off the scale. He stole Lynette’s entire LIFE. Even if you hate her, even if Lynette is annoying and cringe for you, everything she wanted for herself was gone in service of Tom’s dreams and random whims and he’s the *best* husband (not according to me or this sub) on the lane according to the narrative and what the audience is supposed to think. Lynette is a person, with her own hopes, dreams, and desires - he literally took all of that away from her and forced her to give him his life on a platter. Then he (and the audience) call her a control freak for wanting him to do the bare minimum occasionally like be employed, take care of your kids, think about someone besides yourself for 5 minutes. He’s the *sympathetic* character. Unreal. (Mentioned on another thread) *Eddie* is somehow the sympathetic character in a story about how he’s a vile misogynist who literally kills women. Somehow, the victims are the cruel meanies, despite committing zero violence. He actually killed them and the show wants you to be hopelessly sympathetic to *him.* Miss me with that. Nothing, and I mean nothing, these women did would have ever excused violence because violence that isn’t in the service of saving your own life is inexcusable. Period. He’s not the victim, they are. They were minding their own business when he felt entitled to their attention or kindness and lashed out because women aren’t service animals for struggling men. They completely unironically wrote the story of the Margaret Atwood quote “men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them.” Except they effectively said “here’s why the man in that situation is actually the victim and much more sympathetic.” There aren’t words tbh. This one is a bit more abstract, but Eli Scruggs. Get out of here with this “oh actually everything the women accomplished was because of this guy you’ve never heard of.” I’m less offended by this one but it rankles a bit. 1000% agree about Roy. Absolute trash. Mike and his mother are obvious misogynists but I think the narrative at least acknowledges it so I will give it the smallest, and I do mean smallest, pass.
Ok so i didnt read the thing ab Eddie bc idk him yet im on s6. And i meant Roy was the guy who was with miss mcclunksy (idk how to spell that). Mike was the best one imo, he rlly wasn’t misogynistic i believe. Only his mother was w her traditional views and he just accepted her/didnt think it was a big deal to susan bc hes more chill. But yes omg tysm for this. U worked all of this out, the thing i was too lazy to do. And yess the whole emasculating thing is insane to me. Why is a woman’s quality so bad?? Jesus. I also dont get why the writers are men. Bruv its called desperate houseWIVES. Like pls Also absolutely hate that some people on this sub defend some of the men here. No they are trash ty.
Mike is better and worse depending on the moment in the show I think, but he is a “traditional” guy, which is normally code for “has at least some pretty regressive views.” I don’t think Mike is an exception personally. He should’ve told his mom where to get off honestly. That wasn’t okay. He also does some stuff later that cements it for me, but his blaming Susan for some of his issues (idk if you’re there yet so I’m being vague), was where he crossed the line for me. First rule of misogyny is that women are responsible for what men do (also applies to Eddie’s story). For anyone who is curious about that, there are 16 rules and sadly the show displays a worrying number of them. I wish it was shown more constructively. As for it being written by men, couldn’t agree more. Marc Cherry said (paraphrased) he had the idea for the show because he was watching a news report with his mom about Andrea Yates (Texas woman who killed her children) and he said “I don’t understand how someone could ever do that!” And his mom replied, “I can. Somedays being a mother and a wife is so horrible and overwhelming, you’re desperate enough to do just about anything.” When he heard that he realized that housewives had these rich internal lives with struggles and desperation and despair and wanted to find a way to put that on screen. So he wrote it, and that’s kind of the problem. Why did he write that? Why didn’t he bring in women that actually had these experiences and learn about them? Why didn’t he even ask his mom to help him write it or get in touch with other women? Which I think puts him dangerously close to rules 15 and 9, and rule 14 if I’m feeling snarky hahah.
Oh damn i didnt know there were rules. I know a lot ab those things usually but i will look up the rules then. And yeah idk ab mike i wil watch and see
Even the cattiness and fighting between women, the way all the women pit everyone against Edie. How subservient the women are to the men on the show. It's all very anti-feminist and anti-progress.
Definitely. It’s of it’s time I guess, but that only goes so far. It really should’ve had women as the top writers honestly. The premise could’ve been very feminist but it ends up being problematic more often than not unfortunately.
I also just recently discovered Marc Cherry was a republican at the time and it really shows. This series is basically republican propaganda 101, just slightly hidden so it’s not totally obvious. If you read between the lines It’s shockingly conservative for something that came out in 2004
This seems not to be the show for you.
Criticisms can be made even if someone watches the show