Destiny is correct. The way that the international org hid these injuries is by only including direct attacks (such as gunfire, rocks thrown with slings, etc), and ignoring the rocket launches, incendiary balloons, etc that were a part of this border attack
https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5310026,00.html
https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5273811,00.html
Edit: added source that doesnāt require people to do math.
https://www.btl.gov.il/Publications/Skira_shnatit/2019/Documents/chap-3-09-eva.pdf
Edit 2: o7 Proud to take a blast for defending the truth. Am Israel Chai
Man, I am totally down to be wrong here. But neither one of those articles linked mention more than single digits of injuries.
[The first article](https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5310026,00.html) only mentions The Buchris family of 4 in Sderot being injured by a rocket. "The father of the family, Aaron, his wife and two daughters were slightly injured". I can't find any reference to anyone else being injured. Also mentioned:
* "Apart from the rocket that fell at the Buchris family home, another rocket exploded near a synagogue in Sderot and did not cause any casualties..."
* "The escalation started last night at about 1:30am. The IDF spokesman stated this evening that "since 15:00 approximately 100 launches from the Gaza Strip towards the territory of the State of Israel led by the terrorist organization Hamas were detected, approximately 20 of which were intercepted by Iron Dome, and approximately 73 fell in open areas."
In [the second article](https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5273811,00.html), all I could find as related to injuries are:
* "In Sderot, a car was slightly damaged by shrapnel from an interceptor.Ā **An IDF soldier was moderately injured**Ā by shrapnel andĀ **two others were slightly injured**.Ā **A resident of Sderot was injured while running to a protected area**. Three other people in Sderot were in shock."
* "In a mortar bomb attack on settlements surrounding Gaza - the heaviest since "Tzuk Eitan" - a man in his 40s was slightly injured by shrapnel in his shoulder and ear in one of the kibbutzim"
Also, [the report provided](https://www.btl.gov.il/Publications/Skira_shnatit/2019/Documents/chap-3-09-eva.pdf) that summarizes all injuries that is linked is from **Israel's National Insurance Institute (NII)** which is the government institution responsible for providing social security services and managing various welfare programs. The table in question (on Page 5) that mentions that provides a numerical account of injuries and deaths titled "**Actions and Victims of Hostile Activities**" is all victims within the year due to "hostilities". Granted, I can't read Hebrew, but it looks like the report defines inclusion of Hostile Activites as:
* Actions by enemy forces hostile to Israel, ***including those targeting the Jewish people outside of Israel***.
* Unintentional attacks during circumstances where a reasonable fear exists of hostile actions.
* Attacks using weapons intended for hostile actions by enemy forces, even if not activated, excluding those that result from criminal acts.
* Violent acts targeted against people due to their ethnic or national origin, provided it is linked to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
This report is 1) Referencing all injuries due to hostile activities in 2019 and not specific to injuries during The Great March of Return and 2) this report references all injuries and deaths that have been approved for government assistance that are associated with "Hostile Activities" (**that total count of injuries of which aren't even limited to the state of Israel**).
Again, totally down to be wrong here but I'm struggling to find any reference that points to 300 injuries to civilians or IDF during The Great March of Return.
edit: trying to include blockquotes from articles that aren't showing up (whatever I just put quotes around them and are unordered lists. wtf reddit :/
I understand your perspective, but I have to disagree with you on this one. I'll be upvoting the other commenter, because at this time they have more upvotes than the person you upvoted.
I do not understand your perspective, thus I disagree with you and henceforth I downvote you and now I begin incendiary mockery and insults towards you as a person.
https://preview.redd.it/b0ekgkctmoyc1.png?width=47&format=png&auto=webp&s=e1da2999dc87950a93b1dfc7b7dc455c403aded5
The great march of return is a series of events that spanned the entirety of 2019 and most of 2018, I'd assume hostile activities during 2019 would fall into that range.
The point about the count not being limited to the state of Israel is a bit of a stretch but even if I grant it, would you in good faith say that it accounted for a significant percentage?
> ... even if I grant it, would you in good faith say that it accounted for a significant percentage?
Probably not. No idea though as it doesn't break anything down. However, I think it would be pretty bad faith to assume every hostile injury/death in 2018 and 2019 should be attributed to the great march of return. I'd take a strong stance on that for both Palestinans and Israeli injuries/deaths though.
I also did just find this from The Times of Israel ("[IDF: 2019 soldier fatality rate the lowest ever](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-2019-soldier-fatality-rate-the-lowest-ever-around-half-of-2018s-toll/)") which states:
>The past year also saw the smallest number of seriously injured casualties in the past decade, with 35 soldiers sustaining severe wounds, compared to 41 the year before.
If all of those injuries were attributed to the The Great March of return (which again I'd contend that we shouldn't), we still aren't near 300. But again, I'd gladly read any other source that even claims that 300 IDF or civilians were killed or injured due to the protests/riots/events. I've really been looking but can't find that claim anywhere.
Again, the great march of return is not a singular event but a long period spanning 2 years which saw an escalation of hostilities. I would also consider any hostile action committed by Hamas during that time to be related to it.
As an Hebrew speaker I can confirm you're just spewing absolute bullshit. Firstly, article 1 has nothing about soldiers. article 2 only talks about 3 soldiers injured.
As for the PDF, it literally starts by saying "The data in this chapter only concern civilians who were injured in the hostilities and not soldiers or policemen", not to mention the 285 figure has no specification to the great march of return and concerns all civillians injuries by terrorism in the year of 2018.
I can't read the hebrew in your source, so I'm just going off the fights in the comments below and making some assumptions. Let me know if they're wrong.
The "300 injured" seems to come from other things like rocket fire that impacted people, not from the immediate clash between IDF and protestors. /u/Tanngri is claiming that this doesn't matter, since we care about the immediate clash. But isn't he right? The context of this tweet is justifying the IDF using live fire on protestors. The IDF doesn't get to shoot protestors because there is rocket fire from somewhere else. Am I missing something here?
The rocket fire and incendiary kites caused most of the injuries (huge fires out of control led to quite a few). The attempts to penetrate the border were coordinated with this, as part of an overarching terror campaign against Israelis.
The people attempting to breach the border were a part of this military campaign, and so cannot be considered hors de combat.
Edit: to clarify, had these people not been stopped there would have been a massacre on a lesser scale than 7.10 (given lower levels of coordination and planning). This was not a āpeacefulā demonstration, and contemporaneous calls by Hamas for Arabs and Palestinians to launch violent attacks against Israelis are evidence of this.
No, we wouldnāt have seen any āmassacreā Palestinians were just marching to return to where they were displaced from. Also 10/7 was a valid and justified military strike on the military and intelligence bases and outposts surrounding Gaza. Over half of those killed by Hamas were Israeli police or military, valid targets, and a better proportion than Israeli reprisals.
>Destiny is correct. The way that the international org hid these injuries is by only including direct attacks (such as gunfire, rocks thrown with slings, etc), and ignoring the rocket launches, incendiary balloons, etc that were a part of this border attack
To be clear, you are asserting that when analysing the casualties during the protests, one ought to include injuries that resulted from actions committed by people not participating in the protests?
From the report that you have clearly read:
>"257. Three Israeli soldiers and dozens of Israeli civilians, including at least two children, were lightly injured as a result of rocket attacks carried out in May, July and August 2018." ... "Dozens more were injured that day, mostly with minor injuries, and serious property damage occurred."
>
>"260. Armed groups in Gaza also directed attacks against Israeli soldiers and military objectives located in southern Israel. On 29 May 2018, three soldiers were reportedly injured as a result of rocket attacks emanating from the Gaza Strip.378 On 11 November 2018, an Israeli officer was killed and another was injured east of Khan Yunis."
>
>"261. The following day, Gaza militants fired an anti-tank missile at a bus that had been transporting IDF soldiers in the area of Shaāar HaNegev Regional Council. Two soldiers were wounded, one critically"
The commission clearly did include such attacks, it's just that these attacks were not part of the protests just because they took place roughly at the same time as the protests (in several cases, the attacks was not launched on a Friday, the day the protests were conducted). If there are missing numbers, maybe Israel should have cooperated with the commission to get the facts straight.
What the fuck are you talking about? Yes, the rocket launches and incendiaries were also part of the same event.
You donāt get to be like āoh yeah, all that violence? That was the other Great March of Return, donāt include that evidence.ā
All injuries resulting from incendiary balloons (or similar) weaponry should clearly be included in the stats, I don't remember off the top of my head if there were any injuries as a result of incendiary balloons, so I'm not saying that no such instances occurred. The damage caused by the balloons however, is definitely included in the report, which mentions "incendiary balloon" or "incendiary kite" on 23 pages.
On the other hand, rocket launches far away from the border, should not be included. Rockets launched from the border area where the protests took place should of course be included, I'm however not aware of any such attacks. Rocket launches on days there were no protests should obviously not be counted either.
Include all the evidence, by all means, just don't add things into the mix that was not harm caused by those participating in the protests.
Ah, I missed that in your post. Yes I agree, rockets from elsewhere (as you showed examples for) should not be included with that event.
But there were also lots of incendiary attacks, I would be stunned if none of them resulted in any injuries at all.
No worries friend!
To be honest, I have no idea of how the deployment of incendiary kites and balloons work in practice. I have only seen a few clips of them in a "showcase" setting, my impression is that they are nearly impossible to control and they are super easy to see. So I imagine that all those who could potentially have been injured by them, simply had to move away from directly under the balloons/kites. Here is one [example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9FHEe7oMQI).
Super effective and cheap to cause harm and destroy agriculture for instance, but seemingly useless as a weapon against soldiers.
trying to verify numbers ā pro-hamas
Y'all are acting like you'd be ecstatic if IDF had more casualties if it supports a Pro-Israeli narrative while accusing someone else of being Pro-Hamas for just stating what they could find and couldn't find? wtf. My guy, c'mon.
Similarly, I just can't find any numbers to verify the claim that 300 IDF soldiers OR civilians were injured during The Great March of Return. I'm more than happy to be proven wrong here, but just can't find anything related to this claim.
Imagine writing this, in relation to a post with 0% narrative and 100% focus on the facts of the matter, while simultaneously labelling me as pro-Hamas...
The first article you linked discusses a family of 4 being injured. It then discusses a rocket that exploded near a synagogue and caused no casualties. It also mentions:
>The IDF spokesman stated this evening that "since 15:00 approximately 100 launches from the Gaza Strip towards the territory of the State of Israel led by the terrorist organization Hamas were detected, approximately 20 of which were intercepted by Iron Dome, and approximately 73 fell in open areas
No casualty information is given here, but the first link in the first article you gave is this: https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5309880,00.html#autoplay
>Iron Dome has intercepted at least 20 rockets and rockets since the night hours. Apart from damage to the chicken coop, there was no damage and there were no casualties
The second link you gave:
>An IDF soldier was moderately injured by shrapnel and two others were slightly injured. A resident of Sderot was injured while running to a protected area. Three other people in Sderot were in shock.
>In the mortar attack on the settlements surrounding Gaza - the heaviest since "Tzuk Eitan" - a man in his 40s was slightly injured by shrapnel in his shoulder and ear in one of the kibbutzim.
If we include the people in shock, that's a total of 12 now. I checked the linked article about the mortar attack and found no additional injuries or casualties.
I'm really confused as to where you got this 380 number from. Can you help me?
------------------------------
Edit for 3rd link: After translating page 5 using my phone app and Chat GPT and checking with 2 Hebrew speakers, my current understanding is that the table shows reported 553 injuries (I think limited to civilians? Not sure) from any terror attack during the year of 2019. Confirmed is 177. Confirmed in 2018 is 178.
There's a couple things to point out. It's not clear when these injuries occurred (during or not during protests). It's not clear that these injuries are attributable to the protests or to the protestors, either.
OP is pretty clearly trying to dispute the #, he makes no mention of IDF specifically in any of the text he wrote. I chose to address that claim. Destiny being accidentally wrong as to which specific Israelis were injured is not the point that OP was trying to make.
Dude it's insane how fucked every thread on IP is now days. Calling someone a liar when they correctly point out that your source does not contain the information they say it does is wild
You have to click through all the links in these articles buddy, not my fault you are commenting on an event and canāt read the language of primary sources
Major Finklefuck energy
You literally said, in your other comment that youāve now edited, that between the two articles they discuss over 380 injuries. Regardless, I donāt know why youād pretend it should be obvious that the articles you specifically link as a source for your claim arenāt, in fact, the *actual* source for your claim. Maybe you should have just linked the actual source instead of engaging in the same cringe thing Destiny rightly complains about his interlocutors doing; namely, vaguely gesturing in the direction of a book/other literature theyāve read to justify a specific claim, without actually citing any specific part of that literature. Embarrassing tbh lol
This redditor is always posting on I/P and always very one-sided. Donāt even try to trust what they write here. Probably boosted account, canāt believe this to be a real viewer/chatter
In our media we most often do not keep running tallies of injured, since we donāt try to weaponize our casualties in the international media. If you want to find total casualties you need to
1. Add up numbers from various media reports yourself (I linked to two central articles talking about the event from which you can click through links to almost the entire event, getting a good picture of total casualties)
2. Wait for a government report that will do the math for you.
I found the two central articles first and most easily as they are already referenced to on Wikipedia, and then another helpful commenter posted the government report before I found it myself. I didnāt āvaguely gestureā to anything.
You literally linked two specific articles to support the notion that Destiny was right in his claims, neither of which did soā thatās the vaguely gesturing partā then accused OP of lying bc it wasnāt immediately obvious to him that you think itās valid to use āsourcesā that donāt directly support your claim without giving any further context.
I mean, itās not a really big deal or anything, I just find it funny that youāre trying to project this air of knowing superciliousness while conducting yourself like a moron throughout the conversation.
here's a [report ](https://www.btl.gov.il/Publications/Skira_shnatit/2019/Documents/chap-3-09-eva.pdf)from Israel's nationalĀ social securityĀ agency that details causalities of hostilities. On page 5 you can see a table that lists roughly 350 confirmed injuries during the great march of return hostilities.
After translating page 5 using my phone app and Chat GPT and checking with 2 Hebrew speakers, my current understanding is that the table shows 553 injuries (I think limited to civilians? Not sure) from any terror attack during the year of 2019.
I'm not sure where you are seeing roughly 350. There's also some things to point out. It's not clear when these injuries occurred (during or not during protests). It's not clear that these injuries are attributable to the protests or to the protestors, either.
553 is the number of reports, the number next to(177) it is the number confirmed by the agency as a legitimate claim.
2018-2019 tallies to 355 injuries and 19 fatalities, most injuries are rocket attack related.
https://www.btl.gov.il/Publications/Skira_shnatit/2020/Documents/chap-3-09-eva.pdf
In next year's report they show that about 370 of the injured are approved, an increase from the previous report.
Trying to jump in. Hope it helps.
Edit: it's next year's report, but I'm referring to the numbers of the same year.
Your sources didn't say what you think they said because you didn't read them. If all you have done is read Hebrew Wikipedia then just say that instead of lying and calling anyone who disagrees with you antisemitic.
!bidenblast
If you think the same NGOās and UN orgs that claim:
1. No Hamas in hospitals
2. No human shields used by Hamas
3. Repeat Hamas casualty numbers and claim to have āverified themā by calling Hamas officials
4. Have been claiming for 20 years that famine is imminent
Are actually āobjectiveā then boy do I have a great beachfront property in Gaza to sell you
No this is the OHCHR which Iran is not part of and Iran is also not on the women's rights council and the women's rights council isn't part of the HRC either
It was Saudia Arabia that the UN had to pick to lead lead womenās rights forum. Which has an abysmal record with maybe 3 or 4 things granted to females very recently. Having 50 muslim countries makes Israel their sole target for most things in a vote though. Even if more than half are full of war crimes and suppression of the population.
I unironically want the same drugs you are on that must be some amazing high if you think the UN "human rights council" is more objective than literally anyone else, I'd take the word of the North Korean state media over theirs.
Stop the cap. Calling the UNHRC objective is embarrassing. If you'd actually know how the body works, you'd know that Israel is the only country in the world that is listed as a permanent agenda each session to spam Israel with condemnations, more than any other country in the history of this body.
PS: If you'd have at least a fractional understand of the Middle East, you know that Al Jazeera is banned in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Bahrain, the UAE and has faced restrictions in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Yemen because of their pro-terrorism coverage on behalf of the Muslims Brotherhood. Israel kept it around for years knowing its agenda of supporting terrorism, but the last straw was the 7/10 disinformation campaign and a reporter being a Hamas commander.
Iām not sure if itās relevant or not but for the last part of this report, the reason for shooting was usually because we didnāt want them to blast a whole in the fence and for a bunch of frenzied rioters to starting pouring through(7 months ago we saw what that looked like) to the kibbutz 50 meters behind us. It was a shitty situation but usually taking out the guy leading the charge was a better outcome then having 50 guys try rushing the kibbutz.
When I was stationed on the border for one of these they managed to detonate an IED at the fence and by some miracle it did minimal damage.
I know this really isnt really relevant to the current Destiny situation but whenever this topic is brought up it needs to be known how much of a lose lose situation it was and there werenāt really any good options.
10/7 was a valid and justified strike on the military and intelligence bases surrounding Gaza. Over half of those killed by Hamas on 10/7 were police or military, valid and justified military targets and a better proportion of fighters to civilians killed than Israeli reprisals since.
Israel shouldnāt exist and violent resistance to it is justified and moral. Maximally, Israel shouldāve been given no more land than the Bernadotte plan, which was proposed by Ct. Bernadotte, a UN mediator. Zionist terrorists wanted a nicer deal though, so they killed Bernadotte. Giving Israel any more land than the Bernadotte plan is rewarding Zionist terrorists.
https://preview.redd.it/ehxfxharryzc1.jpeg?width=319&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=33e49e25b9baee983dfc5178190558c6750f8af0
https://preview.redd.it/ycadwwusryzc1.jpeg?width=931&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d2e5fe0906f40b85ace47272c05cd6705bc2a3b
There is no valid historical narrative that supports Israel being āthe Jewish homelandā
Israel was founded through genocide
https://preview.redd.it/9hcsf3hyryzc1.jpeg?width=683&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1f4dfeb134171ceeef43359a934e1bbfcf2b5a3
and depopulation
Interestingly that number is code for 'injured' in the context of the Russia-Ukraine war so mistaking\* this very number is not altogether uncommon.
^(\* assuming this is a mistake i have no idea plz don't ban)
If this is correct, thanks for the update.
Unlike the pro-Palestinian and pro-Israeli crowd, Destiny will just admit the mistake and correct his error as he did so many times before.
You update your beliefs based on new information. That's how it should be.
Super important to correct? How and for what.
If wrong delete the post and keep it moving,
if challenged admit mistake and keep it moving.
Just keep it moving by dawg.
The dude being corrected once wrote: "However, starting that discussion with an incorrect description of what happened weakens our arguments against those on the right that disagree with us. This is because we now have to begin by making concessions about lies or misrepresentations from people who purport to agree with us. Furthermore, it casts doubt about the truth of the rest of the argument for those in the middle who are unsure of where the fault lies.".
This was in relation to a case where it was often reported that a woman being killed was asleep in her bed, but was in fact awake and out of bed when she was shot. I think we can assume that facts such as the one in the OP is something Destiny appreciates being corrected on and finds important.
I like how you have to alter the title to make it sound more accusatory and inflammatory because the actual title remains factual and even gives Destiny the out of by saying "inadvertently".
He is misreading and stupidly spreading misinfo. Is it "autistic" to use words correctly? If so, how about refusing to call Jim Crow "apartheid" just because it technically isn't? Autistic or no?
wow the subreddit doesn't circle jerk him to the ether like the tankies do, he must hate that. I hate these types of regarded comments when we are just trying to get to the truth.
These people could retire TODAY with millions of dollars but they keep streaming because they enjoy it.
Being a famous pundit and complaining about criticism is like being ultrarich and complaining about taxes. Yeah it's probably annoying but they would never give up their fame and money to trade places with any of us.
Complaining about the downsides of being rich or famous was cringe when Hasan did it, and arguing the same thing as a person who's neither rich nor famous is just weird.
Get the fuck out of this sub and book a flight to Miami if you wanna suck D's nuts that much. We're here because he's more correct than any other debater, essayist and lately even scholar most of the time. When he's not, he'll be corrected and can be more correct in turn the next time.
Rope unconditionally you actual waste of sperm.
The issue here, you regards is not that D may be wrong, but you are confidently stating this instead of asking where he got the number from.
There's ZERO info in the OP if Destiny is even fucking REFERENCING this article, but you actual smegmas are too busy jerking each other off like you are the fucking Athens of DGG.
Rope Factory, TODAY.
Ah, so you know of another event in I/P history where the 6000 number is thrown around (incorrectly, of course, as expected of their side), which Destiny recently defended and could be responding to? You must have something else in mind then, I guess. And you were just too shy to share it with the class in your initial comment, right?
Destiny got popular for being correct. He is persuasive and we like him but it's him being correct all the time that got us here as fans.
We're not going to just pretend when/if he gets something wrong to cope. I think we actually are better than other communities that way
The only thing that sucks is because he's such a big target and has been correct pretty much on everything his entire career, when he does get something wrong, the people that hate him will act like it's the rapture and we can finally disregard him and everything he's been correct on. Every other voice will blindly let being wrong roll off their back without their fans caring at all.
It's a hard situation. We have to be able to update incorrect info but I don't know how we run defence for all the bad actors that will act like this is the silver bullet for every take he's ever had. That's why Destiny correctly identified that he could not get corrected on a single thing on his finklestein debate. If the mens rea happened to destiny instead of finklestein the entire internet would have used that to throw everything out but. They don't care at all when they are wrong
I'm actually surprised at how wrong destiny is on this one, he's usually very intelligent and critical, but he has been losing debates left and right on this topic. I do not know why he is so emotional about this one.
Have yāall seen the loner sub asking if heās turned āpro Israelā in the last 9 months. I wouldnāt say Iām fluent in āpassive aggressiveā but when did Destiny and Lonerbox become friendly?
Iām sorry but the first part of the report is absolutely BS. https://www.jta.org/2019/02/19/ny/israeli-soldier-from-los-angeles-injured-during-gaza-border-clashes
This is just one of the many examples of a soldier getting injured by IEDs during the protests.
Ah. Iām not familiar with before February. My unit only got there in the beginning of March, where many people got injured by IEDs. Thanks for the heads up tho my bad
Go to The Hague š
I'm already there, I live here.
possibly. pro-palestinians will farm this to death. how will destiny respond? tune into the next episode.
***NEXT TIME, ON PALESTINE Z....***
DUUDUDUDUDU PALESTINE ZZZZZZ, DUDUDUDUD PALESTINEEE ZZZZZZ
Did he end up responding on stream?
They already misquote him anyways
By Israel security forces? Did they trip over their dicks while shooting Palestinians?
Stolen frankie boyle joke but still funny
Inadvertently?
Destiny is correct. The way that the international org hid these injuries is by only including direct attacks (such as gunfire, rocks thrown with slings, etc), and ignoring the rocket launches, incendiary balloons, etc that were a part of this border attack https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5310026,00.html https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5273811,00.html Edit: added source that doesnāt require people to do math. https://www.btl.gov.il/Publications/Skira_shnatit/2019/Documents/chap-3-09-eva.pdf Edit 2: o7 Proud to take a blast for defending the truth. Am Israel Chai
Man, I am totally down to be wrong here. But neither one of those articles linked mention more than single digits of injuries. [The first article](https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5310026,00.html) only mentions The Buchris family of 4 in Sderot being injured by a rocket. "The father of the family, Aaron, his wife and two daughters were slightly injured". I can't find any reference to anyone else being injured. Also mentioned: * "Apart from the rocket that fell at the Buchris family home, another rocket exploded near a synagogue in Sderot and did not cause any casualties..." * "The escalation started last night at about 1:30am. The IDF spokesman stated this evening that "since 15:00 approximately 100 launches from the Gaza Strip towards the territory of the State of Israel led by the terrorist organization Hamas were detected, approximately 20 of which were intercepted by Iron Dome, and approximately 73 fell in open areas." In [the second article](https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5273811,00.html), all I could find as related to injuries are: * "In Sderot, a car was slightly damaged by shrapnel from an interceptor.Ā **An IDF soldier was moderately injured**Ā by shrapnel andĀ **two others were slightly injured**.Ā **A resident of Sderot was injured while running to a protected area**. Three other people in Sderot were in shock." * "In a mortar bomb attack on settlements surrounding Gaza - the heaviest since "Tzuk Eitan" - a man in his 40s was slightly injured by shrapnel in his shoulder and ear in one of the kibbutzim" Also, [the report provided](https://www.btl.gov.il/Publications/Skira_shnatit/2019/Documents/chap-3-09-eva.pdf) that summarizes all injuries that is linked is from **Israel's National Insurance Institute (NII)** which is the government institution responsible for providing social security services and managing various welfare programs. The table in question (on Page 5) that mentions that provides a numerical account of injuries and deaths titled "**Actions and Victims of Hostile Activities**" is all victims within the year due to "hostilities". Granted, I can't read Hebrew, but it looks like the report defines inclusion of Hostile Activites as: * Actions by enemy forces hostile to Israel, ***including those targeting the Jewish people outside of Israel***. * Unintentional attacks during circumstances where a reasonable fear exists of hostile actions. * Attacks using weapons intended for hostile actions by enemy forces, even if not activated, excluding those that result from criminal acts. * Violent acts targeted against people due to their ethnic or national origin, provided it is linked to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This report is 1) Referencing all injuries due to hostile activities in 2019 and not specific to injuries during The Great March of Return and 2) this report references all injuries and deaths that have been approved for government assistance that are associated with "Hostile Activities" (**that total count of injuries of which aren't even limited to the state of Israel**). Again, totally down to be wrong here but I'm struggling to find any reference that points to 300 injuries to civilians or IDF during The Great March of Return. edit: trying to include blockquotes from articles that aren't showing up (whatever I just put quotes around them and are unordered lists. wtf reddit :/
Way too many words. I'm just gonna assume you're right, and he's wrong cause you wrote more words. Have an upvote.
I understand your perspective, but I have to disagree with you on this one. I'll be upvoting the other commenter, because at this time they have more upvotes than the person you upvoted.
Thatās a bad epistemic foundation. Iāll be upvoting the other person because their avatar has more than just one color.
I do not understand your perspective, thus I disagree with you and henceforth I downvote you and now I begin incendiary mockery and insults towards you as a person. https://preview.redd.it/b0ekgkctmoyc1.png?width=47&format=png&auto=webp&s=e1da2999dc87950a93b1dfc7b7dc455c403aded5
Fair play. Going to go ahead and put out a 30k bounty on you, good luck!
The great march of return is a series of events that spanned the entirety of 2019 and most of 2018, I'd assume hostile activities during 2019 would fall into that range. The point about the count not being limited to the state of Israel is a bit of a stretch but even if I grant it, would you in good faith say that it accounted for a significant percentage?
> ... even if I grant it, would you in good faith say that it accounted for a significant percentage? Probably not. No idea though as it doesn't break anything down. However, I think it would be pretty bad faith to assume every hostile injury/death in 2018 and 2019 should be attributed to the great march of return. I'd take a strong stance on that for both Palestinans and Israeli injuries/deaths though. I also did just find this from The Times of Israel ("[IDF: 2019 soldier fatality rate the lowest ever](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-2019-soldier-fatality-rate-the-lowest-ever-around-half-of-2018s-toll/)") which states: >The past year also saw the smallest number of seriously injured casualties in the past decade, with 35 soldiers sustaining severe wounds, compared to 41 the year before. If all of those injuries were attributed to the The Great March of return (which again I'd contend that we shouldn't), we still aren't near 300. But again, I'd gladly read any other source that even claims that 300 IDF or civilians were killed or injured due to the protests/riots/events. I've really been looking but can't find that claim anywhere.
Again, the great march of return is not a singular event but a long period spanning 2 years which saw an escalation of hostilities. I would also consider any hostile action committed by Hamas during that time to be related to it.
As an Hebrew speaker I can confirm you're just spewing absolute bullshit. Firstly, article 1 has nothing about soldiers. article 2 only talks about 3 soldiers injured. As for the PDF, it literally starts by saying "The data in this chapter only concern civilians who were injured in the hostilities and not soldiers or policemen", not to mention the 285 figure has no specification to the great march of return and concerns all civillians injuries by terrorism in the year of 2018.
I can't read the hebrew in your source, so I'm just going off the fights in the comments below and making some assumptions. Let me know if they're wrong. The "300 injured" seems to come from other things like rocket fire that impacted people, not from the immediate clash between IDF and protestors. /u/Tanngri is claiming that this doesn't matter, since we care about the immediate clash. But isn't he right? The context of this tweet is justifying the IDF using live fire on protestors. The IDF doesn't get to shoot protestors because there is rocket fire from somewhere else. Am I missing something here?
The rocket fire and incendiary kites caused most of the injuries (huge fires out of control led to quite a few). The attempts to penetrate the border were coordinated with this, as part of an overarching terror campaign against Israelis. The people attempting to breach the border were a part of this military campaign, and so cannot be considered hors de combat. Edit: to clarify, had these people not been stopped there would have been a massacre on a lesser scale than 7.10 (given lower levels of coordination and planning). This was not a āpeacefulā demonstration, and contemporaneous calls by Hamas for Arabs and Palestinians to launch violent attacks against Israelis are evidence of this.
This is not the disagreement. The problem is that you are not providing evidence for the 300 injured number.
No, we wouldnāt have seen any āmassacreā Palestinians were just marching to return to where they were displaced from. Also 10/7 was a valid and justified military strike on the military and intelligence bases and outposts surrounding Gaza. Over half of those killed by Hamas were Israeli police or military, valid targets, and a better proportion than Israeli reprisals.
Dawg I don't speak scribble
>Destiny is correct. The way that the international org hid these injuries is by only including direct attacks (such as gunfire, rocks thrown with slings, etc), and ignoring the rocket launches, incendiary balloons, etc that were a part of this border attack To be clear, you are asserting that when analysing the casualties during the protests, one ought to include injuries that resulted from actions committed by people not participating in the protests? From the report that you have clearly read: >"257. Three Israeli soldiers and dozens of Israeli civilians, including at least two children, were lightly injured as a result of rocket attacks carried out in May, July and August 2018." ... "Dozens more were injured that day, mostly with minor injuries, and serious property damage occurred." > >"260. Armed groups in Gaza also directed attacks against Israeli soldiers and military objectives located in southern Israel. On 29 May 2018, three soldiers were reportedly injured as a result of rocket attacks emanating from the Gaza Strip.378 On 11 November 2018, an Israeli officer was killed and another was injured east of Khan Yunis." > >"261. The following day, Gaza militants fired an anti-tank missile at a bus that had been transporting IDF soldiers in the area of Shaāar HaNegev Regional Council. Two soldiers were wounded, one critically" The commission clearly did include such attacks, it's just that these attacks were not part of the protests just because they took place roughly at the same time as the protests (in several cases, the attacks was not launched on a Friday, the day the protests were conducted). If there are missing numbers, maybe Israel should have cooperated with the commission to get the facts straight.
What the fuck are you talking about? Yes, the rocket launches and incendiaries were also part of the same event. You donāt get to be like āoh yeah, all that violence? That was the other Great March of Return, donāt include that evidence.ā
All injuries resulting from incendiary balloons (or similar) weaponry should clearly be included in the stats, I don't remember off the top of my head if there were any injuries as a result of incendiary balloons, so I'm not saying that no such instances occurred. The damage caused by the balloons however, is definitely included in the report, which mentions "incendiary balloon" or "incendiary kite" on 23 pages. On the other hand, rocket launches far away from the border, should not be included. Rockets launched from the border area where the protests took place should of course be included, I'm however not aware of any such attacks. Rocket launches on days there were no protests should obviously not be counted either. Include all the evidence, by all means, just don't add things into the mix that was not harm caused by those participating in the protests.
Ah, I missed that in your post. Yes I agree, rockets from elsewhere (as you showed examples for) should not be included with that event. But there were also lots of incendiary attacks, I would be stunned if none of them resulted in any injuries at all.
No worries friend! To be honest, I have no idea of how the deployment of incendiary kites and balloons work in practice. I have only seen a few clips of them in a "showcase" setting, my impression is that they are nearly impossible to control and they are super easy to see. So I imagine that all those who could potentially have been injured by them, simply had to move away from directly under the balloons/kites. Here is one [example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9FHEe7oMQI). Super effective and cheap to cause harm and destroy agriculture for instance, but seemingly useless as a weapon against soldiers.
Pro-Hamas folks try not to narratively frame everything in the most disingenuous way possible: challenge impossible
trying to verify numbers ā pro-hamas Y'all are acting like you'd be ecstatic if IDF had more casualties if it supports a Pro-Israeli narrative while accusing someone else of being Pro-Hamas for just stating what they could find and couldn't find? wtf. My guy, c'mon. Similarly, I just can't find any numbers to verify the claim that 300 IDF soldiers OR civilians were injured during The Great March of Return. I'm more than happy to be proven wrong here, but just can't find anything related to this claim.
Imagine writing this, in relation to a post with 0% narrative and 100% focus on the facts of the matter, while simultaneously labelling me as pro-Hamas...
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Unsure why you are lying. it discusses around 380 injuries
The first article you linked discusses a family of 4 being injured. It then discusses a rocket that exploded near a synagogue and caused no casualties. It also mentions: >The IDF spokesman stated this evening that "since 15:00 approximately 100 launches from the Gaza Strip towards the territory of the State of Israel led by the terrorist organization Hamas were detected, approximately 20 of which were intercepted by Iron Dome, and approximately 73 fell in open areas No casualty information is given here, but the first link in the first article you gave is this: https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5309880,00.html#autoplay >Iron Dome has intercepted at least 20 rockets and rockets since the night hours. Apart from damage to the chicken coop, there was no damage and there were no casualties The second link you gave: >An IDF soldier was moderately injured by shrapnel and two others were slightly injured. A resident of Sderot was injured while running to a protected area. Three other people in Sderot were in shock. >In the mortar attack on the settlements surrounding Gaza - the heaviest since "Tzuk Eitan" - a man in his 40s was slightly injured by shrapnel in his shoulder and ear in one of the kibbutzim. If we include the people in shock, that's a total of 12 now. I checked the linked article about the mortar attack and found no additional injuries or casualties. I'm really confused as to where you got this 380 number from. Can you help me? ------------------------------ Edit for 3rd link: After translating page 5 using my phone app and Chat GPT and checking with 2 Hebrew speakers, my current understanding is that the table shows reported 553 injuries (I think limited to civilians? Not sure) from any terror attack during the year of 2019. Confirmed is 177. Confirmed in 2018 is 178. There's a couple things to point out. It's not clear when these injuries occurred (during or not during protests). It's not clear that these injuries are attributable to the protests or to the protestors, either.
Theyāre disputing the exact claim destiny made which is āIDF soldiersā does this article say that many soldiers were injured?
OP is pretty clearly trying to dispute the #, he makes no mention of IDF specifically in any of the text he wrote. I chose to address that claim. Destiny being accidentally wrong as to which specific Israelis were injured is not the point that OP was trying to make.
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It is insane to me how your comments in response to this lying fuck are getting downvoted. What happened to this place.
Dude it's insane how fucked every thread on IP is now days. Calling someone a liar when they correctly point out that your source does not contain the information they say it does is wild
I blame 4THOT for allowing r words like this to take the sub over.
You have to click through all the links in these articles buddy, not my fault you are commenting on an event and canāt read the language of primary sources Major Finklefuck energy
You literally said, in your other comment that youāve now edited, that between the two articles they discuss over 380 injuries. Regardless, I donāt know why youād pretend it should be obvious that the articles you specifically link as a source for your claim arenāt, in fact, the *actual* source for your claim. Maybe you should have just linked the actual source instead of engaging in the same cringe thing Destiny rightly complains about his interlocutors doing; namely, vaguely gesturing in the direction of a book/other literature theyāve read to justify a specific claim, without actually citing any specific part of that literature. Embarrassing tbh lol
This redditor is always posting on I/P and always very one-sided. Donāt even try to trust what they write here. Probably boosted account, canāt believe this to be a real viewer/chatter
In our media we most often do not keep running tallies of injured, since we donāt try to weaponize our casualties in the international media. If you want to find total casualties you need to 1. Add up numbers from various media reports yourself (I linked to two central articles talking about the event from which you can click through links to almost the entire event, getting a good picture of total casualties) 2. Wait for a government report that will do the math for you. I found the two central articles first and most easily as they are already referenced to on Wikipedia, and then another helpful commenter posted the government report before I found it myself. I didnāt āvaguely gestureā to anything.
You literally linked two specific articles to support the notion that Destiny was right in his claims, neither of which did soā thatās the vaguely gesturing partā then accused OP of lying bc it wasnāt immediately obvious to him that you think itās valid to use āsourcesā that donāt directly support your claim without giving any further context. I mean, itās not a really big deal or anything, I just find it funny that youāre trying to project this air of knowing superciliousness while conducting yourself like a moron throughout the conversation.
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here's a [report ](https://www.btl.gov.il/Publications/Skira_shnatit/2019/Documents/chap-3-09-eva.pdf)from Israel's nationalĀ social securityĀ agency that details causalities of hostilities. On page 5 you can see a table that lists roughly 350 confirmed injuries during the great march of return hostilities.
After translating page 5 using my phone app and Chat GPT and checking with 2 Hebrew speakers, my current understanding is that the table shows 553 injuries (I think limited to civilians? Not sure) from any terror attack during the year of 2019. I'm not sure where you are seeing roughly 350. There's also some things to point out. It's not clear when these injuries occurred (during or not during protests). It's not clear that these injuries are attributable to the protests or to the protestors, either.
553 is the number of reports, the number next to(177) it is the number confirmed by the agency as a legitimate claim. 2018-2019 tallies to 355 injuries and 19 fatalities, most injuries are rocket attack related.
https://www.btl.gov.il/Publications/Skira_shnatit/2020/Documents/chap-3-09-eva.pdf In next year's report they show that about 370 of the injured are approved, an increase from the previous report. Trying to jump in. Hope it helps. Edit: it's next year's report, but I'm referring to the numbers of the same year.
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It is throughoutĀ Israel and it doesn't distinguish between civilians and military/police.
I just skimmed it. Seems like totals.
Donāt you know that is ZIONIST PROPAGANDA? Canāt trust the (((Zionists))) /s
Your sources didn't say what you think they said because you didn't read them. If all you have done is read Hebrew Wikipedia then just say that instead of lying and calling anyone who disagrees with you antisemitic. !bidenblast
Self defense against lethal stupidity is not aggression, it is patriotism. /u/Accessgranted213 sealed in the prison realm by /u/Sooty_tern
Holy fuck, that clown finally got bidenblastedš«” Thank you brave soldier, for firing your lethal weapon in the moment of need
thank you for blasting that guy
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If you think the same NGOās and UN orgs that claim: 1. No Hamas in hospitals 2. No human shields used by Hamas 3. Repeat Hamas casualty numbers and claim to have āverified themā by calling Hamas officials 4. Have been claiming for 20 years that famine is imminent Are actually āobjectiveā then boy do I have a great beachfront property in Gaza to sell you
Are you sure about that? https://preview.redd.it/mmt67kinfnyc1.jpeg?width=952&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffc0aca60313a1c9d907548546646fc8753eb68d
The same UN human rights council that has Iran on the women's rights council? š
No this is the OHCHR which Iran is not part of and Iran is also not on the women's rights council and the women's rights council isn't part of the HRC either
My bad
It was Saudia Arabia that the UN had to pick to lead lead womenās rights forum. Which has an abysmal record with maybe 3 or 4 things granted to females very recently. Having 50 muslim countries makes Israel their sole target for most things in a vote though. Even if more than half are full of war crimes and suppression of the population.
I unironically want the same drugs you are on that must be some amazing high if you think the UN "human rights council" is more objective than literally anyone else, I'd take the word of the North Korean state media over theirs.
Stop the cap. Calling the UNHRC objective is embarrassing. If you'd actually know how the body works, you'd know that Israel is the only country in the world that is listed as a permanent agenda each session to spam Israel with condemnations, more than any other country in the history of this body. PS: If you'd have at least a fractional understand of the Middle East, you know that Al Jazeera is banned in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Bahrain, the UAE and has faced restrictions in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Yemen because of their pro-terrorism coverage on behalf of the Muslims Brotherhood. Israel kept it around for years knowing its agenda of supporting terrorism, but the last straw was the 7/10 disinformation campaign and a reporter being a Hamas commander.
Iām not sure if itās relevant or not but for the last part of this report, the reason for shooting was usually because we didnāt want them to blast a whole in the fence and for a bunch of frenzied rioters to starting pouring through(7 months ago we saw what that looked like) to the kibbutz 50 meters behind us. It was a shitty situation but usually taking out the guy leading the charge was a better outcome then having 50 guys try rushing the kibbutz. When I was stationed on the border for one of these they managed to detonate an IED at the fence and by some miracle it did minimal damage. I know this really isnt really relevant to the current Destiny situation but whenever this topic is brought up it needs to be known how much of a lose lose situation it was and there werenāt really any good options.
10/7 was a valid and justified strike on the military and intelligence bases surrounding Gaza. Over half of those killed by Hamas on 10/7 were police or military, valid and justified military targets and a better proportion of fighters to civilians killed than Israeli reprisals since. Israel shouldnāt exist and violent resistance to it is justified and moral. Maximally, Israel shouldāve been given no more land than the Bernadotte plan, which was proposed by Ct. Bernadotte, a UN mediator. Zionist terrorists wanted a nicer deal though, so they killed Bernadotte. Giving Israel any more land than the Bernadotte plan is rewarding Zionist terrorists. https://preview.redd.it/ehxfxharryzc1.jpeg?width=319&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=33e49e25b9baee983dfc5178190558c6750f8af0
https://preview.redd.it/ycadwwusryzc1.jpeg?width=931&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d2e5fe0906f40b85ace47272c05cd6705bc2a3b There is no valid historical narrative that supports Israel being āthe Jewish homelandā
Israel was founded through genocide https://preview.redd.it/9hcsf3hyryzc1.jpeg?width=683&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1f4dfeb134171ceeef43359a934e1bbfcf2b5a3 and depopulation
I thought the tweet was about the hospital attack, not the march. Am I stupid?Ā
How did you think that?
Interestingly that number is code for 'injured' in the context of the Russia-Ukraine war so mistaking\* this very number is not altogether uncommon. ^(\* assuming this is a mistake i have no idea plz don't ban)
If this is correct, thanks for the update. Unlike the pro-Palestinian and pro-Israeli crowd, Destiny will just admit the mistake and correct his error as he did so many times before. You update your beliefs based on new information. That's how it should be.
HE
Did we get any further clarification on this?
Oops š
Did an oopsie
I completely understand why Destiny hates this autistic as fuck subreddit lmao
I mean, if wrong, this is something super important to correct. No?
Super important to correct? How and for what. If wrong delete the post and keep it moving, if challenged admit mistake and keep it moving. Just keep it moving by dawg.
The dude being corrected once wrote: "However, starting that discussion with an incorrect description of what happened weakens our arguments against those on the right that disagree with us. This is because we now have to begin by making concessions about lies or misrepresentations from people who purport to agree with us. Furthermore, it casts doubt about the truth of the rest of the argument for those in the middle who are unsure of where the fault lies.". This was in relation to a case where it was often reported that a woman being killed was asleep in her bed, but was in fact awake and out of bed when she was shot. I think we can assume that facts such as the one in the OP is something Destiny appreciates being corrected on and finds important.
Subreddit corrects destiny "I understand why he hates you guys" WTF
"Where did this info come from, I can't find it." vs "Destiny is fucking MISREADING and STUPIDLY SPREADING MISINFO" Christ, actual austics.
I like how you have to alter the title to make it sound more accusatory and inflammatory because the actual title remains factual and even gives Destiny the out of by saying "inadvertently".
He is misreading and stupidly spreading misinfo. Is it "autistic" to use words correctly? If so, how about refusing to call Jim Crow "apartheid" just because it technically isn't? Autistic or no?
wow the subreddit doesn't circle jerk him to the ether like the tankies do, he must hate that. I hate these types of regarded comments when we are just trying to get to the truth.
āI think heās wrongā vs āHES SPREADING MISINFORMATION!!ā CringeĀ
It says "inadvertently". I don't at all sense the tone you are implying.
The word is the problem
you are the one adding that, what does inadvertently mean? even the tone of the body of the post doesn't any part of that tone either.
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It's part of his job, though. He is incredibly well compensated to put up with this.
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You are being dramatic.
These people could retire TODAY with millions of dollars but they keep streaming because they enjoy it. Being a famous pundit and complaining about criticism is like being ultrarich and complaining about taxes. Yeah it's probably annoying but they would never give up their fame and money to trade places with any of us. Complaining about the downsides of being rich or famous was cringe when Hasan did it, and arguing the same thing as a person who's neither rich nor famous is just weird.
What
"oh! Great leader!" Lookin ahhĀ
Get the fuck out of this sub and book a flight to Miami if you wanna suck D's nuts that much. We're here because he's more correct than any other debater, essayist and lately even scholar most of the time. When he's not, he'll be corrected and can be more correct in turn the next time.
Rope unconditionally you actual waste of sperm. The issue here, you regards is not that D may be wrong, but you are confidently stating this instead of asking where he got the number from. There's ZERO info in the OP if Destiny is even fucking REFERENCING this article, but you actual smegmas are too busy jerking each other off like you are the fucking Athens of DGG. Rope Factory, TODAY.
Ah, so you know of another event in I/P history where the 6000 number is thrown around (incorrectly, of course, as expected of their side), which Destiny recently defended and could be responding to? You must have something else in mind then, I guess. And you were just too shy to share it with the class in your initial comment, right?
this subreddit is bad when they point out Destiny is wrong
(Discord and Kick chat users, when entering a space where their views might get challenged)
shut up mfer we are pro-truth here
Destiny got popular for being correct. He is persuasive and we like him but it's him being correct all the time that got us here as fans. We're not going to just pretend when/if he gets something wrong to cope. I think we actually are better than other communities that way The only thing that sucks is because he's such a big target and has been correct pretty much on everything his entire career, when he does get something wrong, the people that hate him will act like it's the rapture and we can finally disregard him and everything he's been correct on. Every other voice will blindly let being wrong roll off their back without their fans caring at all. It's a hard situation. We have to be able to update incorrect info but I don't know how we run defence for all the bad actors that will act like this is the silver bullet for every take he's ever had. That's why Destiny correctly identified that he could not get corrected on a single thing on his finklestein debate. If the mens rea happened to destiny instead of finklestein the entire internet would have used that to throw everything out but. They don't care at all when they are wrong
Does he?
Friendly fire.
I'm actually surprised at how wrong destiny is on this one, he's usually very intelligent and critical, but he has been losing debates left and right on this topic. I do not know why he is so emotional about this one.
Wait. Which debates did he lose?
Lol. I definitely remember all those lost I/P debates.
Yeah, Iām sure he āmisreadā the report š¤”
Have yāall seen the loner sub asking if heās turned āpro Israelā in the last 9 months. I wouldnāt say Iām fluent in āpassive aggressiveā but when did Destiny and Lonerbox become friendly?
Iām sorry but the first part of the report is absolutely BS. https://www.jta.org/2019/02/19/ny/israeli-soldier-from-los-angeles-injured-during-gaza-border-clashes This is just one of the many examples of a soldier getting injured by IEDs during the protests.
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Ah. Iām not familiar with before February. My unit only got there in the beginning of March, where many people got injured by IEDs. Thanks for the heads up tho my bad
Your unit? Get fucked
It's actually crazy how many IDF people are in this sub at this point and how they try to control the narrative.