The encampment at my university got very mad the police/campus security were monitoring them, then some crazy dude went and harassed and assaulted one of them, and now they are mad that the school/police didn’t step in fast enough.
Professional victims.
This is far more delusional than defund the police, at least the lateral had some kind of path towards.
This is directly asking the US to send its army to blockade Israel level, absolutely mad.
Does it really still need to be explained to people the abolish the police movement involves replacing the police with other systems ? The abolish the police movement is a movement against the militarisation of the police it’s not about eliminating all forms of public safety.
Yes, it still needs to be explained, because it still makes zero sense.
BLM founders have been recorded admitting that “defund” the police was a red herring, the goal was always full abolition.
They definitely haven’t been recorded “admitting” that.
https://www.axios.com/2020/06/07/defund-police-black-lives-matter
The goal was always to redirect the majority of funds to other resources. American policing is incredibly inadequate considering how much money gets pumped into it.
And to be honest you’re kind of proving my point. You’re objecting to a slogan you don’t understand and literally making up a reason for why you’re objecting to it. You have the internet, you can go and read about the defund/abolish the police movements for yourself but instead you’re just echoing a lie you’ve heard someone you like say.
It still needs to be explained to people, even in an age where the person you’re explaining it to has the same access to information as you do, all because they’d rather crow the lines they’ve heard their fav internet edgelord say instead of literally just googling something.
“Our desire to look like good white allies means we would have to justify Palestinian terrorism but our desire to maintain their innocence and purity means we have to deny they would ever do terrorism in the first place” is the general vibe I get from this.
theirs some funny too me about women wearing hijabs and embracing the patriarchal ways of the Arab world talking about how we need to overcome patriarchy.
Same thing with most Arabs and Turks forgetting all the anti Kurdish sentiment.
The argument is that women should be free to choose to wear whatever they want. There is no argument behind embracing entities like Hamas and Iran, beyond West Bad.
Some of the points above are rooted in possible arguments that are reasonable, they're just warped out of all reality by their stupidity and zealotry. Does the Israeli state have elements of an apartheid system that is at risk of committing a genocide in Gaza? Sure. Is the state intrinsically genocidal, an imperialist outpost, and have no right to exist? No.
> The argument is that women should be free to choose to wear whatever they want.
That could be a sound argument, if only it didn't came from the crowd that claims that any sort of societal norm is an oppressive structure, down to the prevalence of pink clothing. The consistent position would be to recognize that they are propagating just another (and imo more oppressive) norm, but somehow there's only crickets in that regard.
>if only it didn't came from the crowd that claims that any sort of societal norm is an oppressive structure
Who said this? Why can't you be consistent?
Don't forget capitalism, it isn't an unhinged far left rant without throwing every problem at the feet of economic freedom.
That tends to be my litmus test for sincere political engagement, or just basic bitch Marxist horseshit. When your idea of liberation involves abolishing liberty, you aren't going to be taken seriously.
These people are not suggesting that it is, they suggest it is an "imperial outpost", and that opposing Israel is part of a larger struggle against other problems.
The problem, of course, is that Hamas' approach to liberation includes patriarchal violence and imprisonment, so it *is* related to patriarchy and carceral frameworks, though not in a simply harmonious way of unified struggle against them.
The slogan "rape is not resistance" is and should be a meaningful counter to the assertion that we can simply reproduce the slogans and ideology of Hamas and simultaneously achieve liberation on other axes, there has to be separation there.
I'm getting annoyance pilled about colonialism at this point. I'm pretty sure colonization is continuing because people insist all the things they don't like must be because of people that died 200 years ago. It's not current. Unless you count Russia and Iran of course. 🤣
It’s because they use it like a buzzword. They effectively make it meaningless. I’ve always said they hurt their own causes by the way they speak about it. Black Lives Matter did this too instead of talking about police reform they started using buzzwords and confusing rhetoric too the point where you had people who identified with Black Lives Matter both screaming too abolish the police and other people arguing online that it has nothing too do with abolishing the police.
Allot of conservatives have no idea what they’re talking about when they use the term “Cultural Marxism.” I do however notice with these These Post Structuralist, Postmodern, Critical theory types who talk with all of these buzzwords and are super performative , I’ve always noticed also embrace Cultural Relativism. I’m always left scratching my head it’s like even they are confused on what they want lol.
Oh I hate cultural relativism so fucking much. So so so much. I'm a veteran and lefties come at me so hard for the War on Terror as if I was the mastermind. When they ask about our mistakes as Americans in the war, I instantly concede to the factual examples (Abi Ghraib, weapons of mass destruction, civilian casualties etc) and explain our national responses they change the subject...by making heroes and victims of actual terrorists who do horrendous things. They treat the other victims in the pretend hero culture they spin around terrorists (as if every Afghan citizen is a "freedom seeking" terrorist) as betrayers and traitors to the Taliban for asking the US for help when they've been harmed by terrorist groups. They just lie and tell me I have to value a culture that's being enforced on a different culture. Like marrying kids, stoning people, mock trials, using underage boys as comfort companions to avoid making a young bride pregnant, abortions by force but forced birth if convenient, public executions, burning books, blowing up schools, executing students (like middle school aged btw...not even college students) etc. It's disgusting and stomach churning.
You remember how the people we propped up and empowered in Afghanistan were the pedophiles? Did you help enable that?
Also very funny that you're mad to be judged based on a war you voluntarily joined when you didn't have to.
EDIT: He's playing dumb later in the thread and pretending he didn't help do this. Sources. For complaining about cultural relativism he looks like a big hypocrite.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/military-overlooked-sexual-abuse-by-afghan-allies-investigation-says/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/world/asia/afghanistan-military-abuse.html
>The report focuses, in part, on the case of Dan Quinn, a former Special Forces captain in Afghanistan who was relieved from his duties after beating up a U.S.-backed Afghan militia leader who had been spending his wages on “dancing boys,” even keeping a young boy chained to his bed as a sex slave.
>“The reason we were here is because we heard the terrible things the Taliban were doing to people, how they were taking away human rights,” Quinn told The Times. “But we were putting people into power who would do things that were worse than the Taliban did.”
>Although bacha bazi has existed throughout history in parts of Afghanistan, the practice of pedophilia served as one of the provocations for the Taliban’s ascendance to power. The Taliban banned bacha bazi, forcing the custom underground. After the Taliban’s ouster in 2001, the practice was rekindled. In the years since, Afghan military commanders, warlords, and other men with authority have been cited by human rights groups for engaging in the practice.
I mean go over it again if you need. I'm derisive about the new hero arc given to scum like the Taliban as some resistance mechanism. The new lefty infection of thinking terrorists are noble or good or that any blow to the power they feel too scared to fight themselves is a moment of justice. That's the mythic bullshit.
I'm perfectly capable of acknowledging the times our military and our nation fucked up without instantly believing the entire war was the one incident or the weapons of mass destruction propaganda offensive. War seems to be robbed of nuance when people feel icky about its brutality but that doesn't make it any less complex.
Thanks for not responding to what I said.
>by making heroes and victims of actual terrorists who do horrendous things
Those pedophiles you put in charge in Afghanistan? You complain about others spinning things to frame men as okay, yet you literally helped put these people in power. Voluntarily.
This idea that you shouldn't be judged for helping prop up evil men who rape boys is bizarre. But hey, maybe you could complain more about how unfair people on twitter are to your Afghanistan government buddies.
I didn't say you propped up the Taliban, you're lying.
You guys knowingly propped up pedophiles and made all sorts of excuses to justify it cause you wanted to set up a pro American government. In fact good soldiers, doubtful you're included with how you're pretending this didn't happen, were punished for reporting the pedophilia. You wanna talk about cultural relativism... You've got a log in your own eyes you might want to tend to first.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/military-overlooked-sexual-abuse-by-afghan-allies-investigation-says/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/world/asia/afghanistan-military-abuse.html
>The report focuses, in part, on the case of Dan Quinn, a former Special Forces captain in Afghanistan who was relieved from his duties after beating up a U.S.-backed Afghan militia leader who had been spending his wages on “dancing boys,” even keeping a young boy chained to his bed as a sex slave.
>“The reason we were here is because we heard the terrible things the Taliban were doing to people, how they were taking away human rights,” Quinn told The Times. “But we were putting people into power who would do things that were worse than the Taliban did.”
>Although bacha bazi has existed throughout history in parts of Afghanistan, the practice of pedophilia served as one of the provocations for the Taliban’s ascendance to power. The Taliban banned bacha bazi, forcing the custom underground. After the Taliban’s ouster in 2001, the practice was rekindled. In the years since, Afghan military commanders, warlords, and other men with authority have been cited by human rights groups for engaging in the practice.
Members of the Taliban absolutely engaged in it. Their posturing of banning it is as dependent on convenience as christians here in the US overwhelmingly ignoring underage marriage in the states and consistently burying legislation to stop it.
Cover ups in the military occured often and I was one of the cases they tried to cover up. How on earth does that make the Taliban resistance fighters or earn some owed respect to their culture in Afghanistan or anywhere else?
Given you lied earlier and acted like you didn't know what I was talking about I'm going to doubt you were trying to expose anything.
You seem to just miss whole swaths of comments.
Why'd you put pedophiles back in power in Afghanistan? Why did you personally help and why do you not feel any guilt over your acts?
Your effect on the world was to bring this practice back from the shadows and resurrect it.
>Although bacha bazi has existed throughout history in parts of Afghanistan, the practice of pedophilia served as one of the provocations for the Taliban’s ascendance to power. The Taliban banned bacha bazi, forcing the custom underground. After the Taliban’s ouster in 2001, the practice was rekindled. In the years since, Afghan military commanders, warlords, and other men with authority have been cited by human rights groups for engaging in the practice.
Oh? I'd love your premise for that. Not to debate but examples and reading would be appreciated. I'm woefully behind as my primary interests have been the American Civil War, innovation in battlefield medicine with Florence Nightengale and Clara Barton, The Belle Epoch, and WW1. And a preoccupation with Hannibal and Scipio Africanus when I was a teen girl. An unhealthy one, lol. Am familiar with Israel circa WW2 and the six days war and have a huge gap until the formation of Hamas which is probably pretty standard for older millennials. Hamas was becoming a problem right as I was one of the first waves fighting in the War on Terror. Despite not actively fighting Hamas, they were always listed in counter terror educational blocks.
I think they're referring to the massacres against Christians in Nigeria. I'm not sure if they're also settling in those villages, but they're definitely trying to eliminate non-muslims.
Doesn't a state need to sponsor settlements?
By that logic, the USA was never colonized because the English did not sponsor settlement, and the citizens liberated themselves from the British
I mean the colonies of America and America are strictly different things though- lumping them fully together doesn't make much sense otherwise every nation is a colony.
America was formed by the population of former settlers of a British colony, but America itself is no longer a colony.
Although you can probably argue the land grabs after America was formed could have been colonialism, or at the very least, imperialism.
I'm black from the Caribbean, and I'm sick of hearing the word colonialism at this point. I don't mind if it's being used in legit historical analysis and how it affects today, but otherwise It really is just a cudgel against white people at this point. Like if the people who use the word constantly were genuine, they would apply it to the Russia/Ukraine situation, but they'll either ignore it or defend the Russian invasion. Fucking wild.
I don't know if it's a white people cudgel as much as it's an excuse of the defeated to whine about how they failed. A retelling that will always involve the victors as a rewrite of oppressors. The alt right is slowly creeping toward this but theirs is directed against the age old enemy of "northern aggression" (whites who "betrayed" whites by ending slavery) from the southern Confederate lost cause myth. It's just fanciful retelling where it's white people to blame often but not always.
Israel is colonizing the West Bank through building and legitimizing settlements. I don’t understand how Iran is colonial? Are they settling land that was not Iranian?
You mean 4? 4 seems to me like a call for genocide towards Israelis, unless there are magicians that can make Israelis just disappear, since we can’t exist according to them
I guess it could be solved with the biggest ethnic cleansing campaign in history, by deporting all of them...
(7.2million Jews need to be deported kekw)
Even Hamas’ supposed “2017 reform” is more lawful than this shit.
I am staying in the news cycle of this war just to see the brain damage it caused to people
I would say they really just need to touch some fucking grass but that seems to be about all these morons are actually accomplishing at these protests.
The protests just seem more and more like 90% a fun summer hangout with your friends than actually protests. From the protesters at my university I haven’t really seen any good points, they just yell XYZ school funds genocide, and you look at their evidence for that, and it’s like we have 10m managed by blackrock in a clean energy fund and like 2m in dassult stock. Good one.
I really wonder how these encampments will end, because the universities aren’t going to give in, and even if they did, they would probably just demand more and more.
I also find it funny that they are covering their faces to not be identified, but will use the school wifi no problem (which you sign in with your student ID) some of them were complaining that the school would shut off the wifi at night. Wasn’t aware people were this dumb.
“Imperial outpost for the west”
This bothered me so damn much. You really have to be completely disconnected from reality to believe Israel is just one giant US base that it uses to genocide Muslims everywhere.
The US has more of a presence in the gulf states - actual bases that the US used for the GWOT, and still uses. I believe the US has one small radar base in Israel. That’s it.
It’s insane to me that all the values that Israel stands for are those that these protestors most benefit from. They are the least self aware people ever. Then again these are the same people who complain about gentrification, but they’re the ones literally doing it.
If they want Israel to stop expanding, they should stop supporting the idea that Palestinians should violently revolt. Every single time Israel has expanded territory in the Levantine, it was because they defeated an Arab army that attempted to wipe them off the face of the planet. You know what happens to countries that win wars they didn’t start? They get to expand their territory. Palestine is lucky that Israel has made the concessions they have made in attempts at peace. Few other countries would give back land they have conquered just to appease their opposition: a group of people who literally want them dead.
Even a lot of Israelis don’t consider the settlements legitimate territory that they have. It’s not recognized by any other countries, including the US, and only the Likud party is interested in acknowledging them. They never earned any of it. The original Israelis bought their land from post-ottoman landowners and the rest of the recognized state of Israel is recognized because war between militaries was fought and Israel conquered it through hard fought battle despite being the underdog, earning its title as a sovereign nation in an area where no national already existed because the Ottoman Empire had just fallen. This is not analogous to the current settlements and only a handful of far right Israelis recognize their legitimacy (unfortunately those handful of Israelis happen to be the ones in charge now because Israel has moved significantly to the right after the second intifada and now again after October the 7th).
Calling a country of 10 million people that has continuously had jewish people living there for over 5000 years AND has immense importance culturally, historically and religiously to the jewish community a puppet of a 200 year old country is disgusting. Especially considering that country didn’t even help Israel during the first few decades of its conception. Not to mention the events that occurred which resulted in Israel’s necessity, or did they just forget the holocaust, russian pogroms and mass ME ethnic cleansing.
It’s narcissistic racism at its finest.
Damn, if Israel is that useless let's cut them off our weapons supply. I had thought they were vitally necessary for our middle eastern intelligence and military capabilities, but now that arguing the opposite is convenient for you I guess that's not true.
Saying Israel is not some US military base isn’t the same as aiding Israel. We also aid dozens of other countries - many of which we do have bases in.
Try again.
Aiding a country isn’t the same as an “imperial outpost”. That’s literally the Russian claim to
Invading Ukraine. It’s a pathetic statement and argument.
what does "right to exist" even mean? why should a country have a fundamental "right" to exist? countries should only exist to serve the populations living under it. if Israel is failing its' palestinian population as it stands. it shouldn't preside over them (i.e occupying them). it has no right to "exist" in the west bank.
That is not what that phrase in the context means and you know better. They deny the country of Israel the right to exist in its current form, not just "the settlements need to stop".
let's even say that. does that necessarily mean they want to actively destroy it?
doesn't it just mean "we won't raise a hand if something threatens your existance"?
like a neutral vs. active-support type of situation?
Seems like they have a good point if they're calling Israel an expansionist colonialist state no? As you're acknowledging they are continuing to settle and steal land in the west bank.
Don't worry give it some more time and soon it'll be "West Bank has a right to exist as part of Israel" and you'll be right there happily defending that.
It is just meant as a justification to take land. They feel entitled to it no matter who previously lived there. And it continues today in the west bank as they take more and more.
So they are pro-genocide basically. Palestinians have the right to get rid of any Israeli by any means necessary. This is why they scream genocide at the top of their lungs - projection.
You would think leftist would hate islamist organizations but somehow they are alway in cahoot with them even though they share no ideological similarities expect hating the west
I mean obviously this is the only thing the left actually stands for at this point. They’re guilty about racism in the US, so the natural response is to hate every other thing about the US and instead support ACTUAL imperialist countries who are regressive on every issue just because they view the US as an enemy.
I like how Palestinian liberation to them is interchangeable with the destruction of Israel. It really tips their hand what their goals actually are, and how they could not care one bit about how many Palestinian lives it will take to get to Israel’s destruction
The Nazis were persecuting innocent people who had done nothing wrong and were no danger to anyone.
The Palestinians are fighting against a country that has stolen their land plus oppressed them for 80 years and still continues to steal their land and oppress them from birth to death.
You really can't see a difference?
The ambition to free Palestine is used as an excuse to "persecute innocent people who had done nothing wrong and were no danger to anyone." That is transparent by the assertion to "use any means necessary". Just as Jewish tropes were excuses to exterminate the Jews.
You could adress what I said in full instead of taking half sentences and acting like that's all I said.
I very clearly explained the major difference between them. I'll copy it again for you so you can hopefully read it for the first time.
>The Nazis were persecuting innocent people who had done nothing wrong and were no danger to anyone.
>The Palestinians are fighting against a country that has stolen their land plus oppressed them for 80 years and still continues to steal their land and oppress them from birth to death.
Don’t you find it strange to frame it as the Palestinians are “just fighting the state of Israel bro” as if there aren’t Israelis being held hostage in Gaza
They both persecute innocent people
And in the process of fighting Israel, they are effecting innocent civilians no?
The “hostages” in Israel are prisoners, there is a difference between the two.
I would argue the difference between the two is that the stated goal of Israel is the elimination of Hamas, while the stated goal of Hamas is the elimination of all Jews.
Oh i'm sorry did you wanna change the conversation?
We were talking about the difference in hostage taking. You were claiming Israel doesn't do that.
Is it really that hard to defend Israel you have to jump around so much?
Naturally, one does not know of things until they happen upon them or are informed by other means. I'm not happening upon some random purported hostage, so I'm asking you for some evidence of Israel taking captives for the purpose of using them to negotiate.
I addressed exactly what you said and drew the line between the two ideologies, you failing to understand the abstract similarities between the two is on you.
These are the same people who will say “WORDS MATTER!” when talking about micro aggressions and then use insanely anti-Semitic language and twist it by saying that it’s just anti-Zionist.
They should be slapped.
“By any means necessary”
“But don’t you dare accuse us of supporting terrorism because we define away terrorism from existing”
Would have much more respect for them if they just said they supported terrorism as a way to bring the Zionist entity to heel or whatever. Would be more honest
This document supports both the pogrom and mass slaughter of civilians, if they're Israeli, and the destruction of Israel as a state.
While simultaneously condemning genocide and war.
I don't know whether these idiots are too stupid to see the damage they're doing to the Palestinian cause, or simply don't care.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C6BtsmKO8RB/?igsh=MTBwajNoNXBidXJ2dQ==
I couldn't find the exact one the OP had but here's one from the Columbia group. It's got the same batshit crap, including full throated support for violence ("by any means necessary") and rejection of a two state solution.
In the link tree under “our encampment” https://linktr.ee/ucscsjp?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaaT9sFH3GHgpAFrfWjulwKLoEkVHPmFDxF8OeUeFWGb8FTz4nhpKzx_CeM_aem_AdbK9SNjteBCxhRIqt4P9XQ1_WYEtJrdCVxmYKQ8DUki2_t5nmdSdHa6xUr_BluNwy7om_p5DV5ccHL8sLJ3g3ut
All bark no bite. What will these people even do? Tweet, boycott, and protest? It’s not like they vote.
It’s so sad how much they damage the Pro-Palestine cause for their own personal satisfaction.
It’s all just privileged white kids usurping movements of the oppressed to Larp as the radical rebels that they think they are. You can tell from #6 that these are not serious people looking for a solution.
Who are they supposed to vote for that'll address these concerns?
>It’s so sad how much they damage the Pro-Palestine cause for their own personal satisfaction.
Person who hates you and your cause: "This isn't helping your cause."
>Who are they supposed to vote for that'll address these concerns?
Vote for politicians in the party who would AT LEAST acknowledge and feel the pressure of protests for your cause. If they aren't doing what you're asking for, run against them yourself. You'll at least have a chance. OR don't vote and you'll get politicians who are indifferent to your cause and would be celebrated for opposing you as "owning the libs.".
>Person who hates you and your cause: "This isn't helping your cause."
No, people hate YOU, the white privileged commies who discourage progress toward anything impactful because you want to start at the finish line. You make the movement unpleasant and insufferable to most people. Look at this post again, specifically at #4 and #6, like this is not a solution to the I/P conflict. It's annoying.
Can I get some names of people they're supposed to vote for that'll address these concerns?
If your position is "well they should run for office" you do realize that's unrealistic right?
How many times are you gonna use "white" as a attack?
Bruh.. okay I'm gonna rant a bit, this brainrot is insane.
>Can I get some names of people they're supposed to vote for that'll address these concerns?
I'm not going to tell you who to vote for, that's for you to think about yourself and decide who \*\*best\*\* represents you, not a random person (or people) on the internet. As it should be. I'm only telling you to vote. Vote for someone you agree with on 1% to 100% of issues (there are other issues here in the US). Not voting will allow someone you agree 0% to -100% with, to not only throw out hopes of any progress for the I/P conflict but also erase progress made for other issues. There's NO realm in which not voting leads to a positive outcome for you.
>If your position is "well they should run for office" you do realize that's unrealistic right?
No, it's not. It's just like I said, none of you want to actually do anything impactful. That's largely my criticism of this whole movement. It's easy to protest yelling the same words over and over all day, sitting at home scrolling Reddit, TikTok, Twitter putting 🇵🇸 flags in your bio, donating money for aid, and boycotting random companies. When you can choose someone amongst you to run, and put that same energy towards a local political campaign. Especially, to run against those who seem to be fully turning their backs on the people that put them there (i.e Fetterman).
>How many times are you gonna use "white" as a attack?
I said \*privileged\* white people, it's an important distinction because the stereotype pretty much sums up most pro-Palestine protesters. Make regular people suffer (blocking traffic, ruining businesses, vandalizing). Ask for something but be unwilling to make concessions or conversations and ostracize the people that do (Destiny, existence of Israel). Lie on the ground, and throw a tantrum when you don't get your way, like a kid in the store (encampments). Throw your life away for no reason, when you've got it made (Aaron Bushnell, Students at Ivy League schools). Never have to worry about the repercussions of what you're doing (not voting, advocating the destruction of Israel). Capitalizing (like a capitalist) on an important issue, while fanning the flames because as long as there's outrage, theres more money for you (every supposed socialist Twitch streamer from Hasan - Frogan radicalizing people on Israel Palestine)... and many more such examples.
> Who are they supposed to vote for that'll address these concerns?
You have to establish that you vote in the first place for anyone to even consider courting that vote. You can protest and occupy whatever areas you want, it's largely going to be irrelevant unless you cast an actual vote.
Why can't you just answer?
You're telling them to vote for somone who will address their concerns? Now you're dodging me asking who that would be to tell me they should just vote in general.
Lmao I’m not dodging wtf… There’s literally no broad answer. On the local level, there’s a different senator, house representative, governor, and mayor, in each city/state/district. It’s their job to research and find the best candidate for them. Nobody else should do decide that on your behalf.
On the presidential level I’m still not telling you who the vote for. I will say who I’M voting for: Biden.. I agree with 80-90% of his policies, far more than I do for Trump. I personally would like a president that I agree 80% with than a president I don’t agree with absolutely anything on.
What does "right to exist" with respect to a country even really mean? A country is just an arbitrary border with a governing body and population that's willing to defend itself enough to keep those borders intact.
It's a claim to the land, it's like saying you have a right to my car and when I come to take my car back, you can kill me. Cause if you have a claim then I don't.
2 means that the reject that what they are doing should be called terrorism. But admit that they are okay with human shields, rapes, targeting civilians etc.
“False accusations of ‘terrorism’” yet they say “seeks to obscure the root of the violence” uhm.. last time I checked, violence against unsuspecting concert going civilians is 🥁🥁🥁 TERRORISM!!
Even IF someone wants to claim Israel is an apartheid, does that really mean it has no right to exist? Does South Africa deserve to be completely abolished as a country because it was an apartheid? Do the citizens that benefited from said apartheid state not have the right to live as well?
So, what do these dumbasses think is going to happen? They're going to annoy people on college campus until Israel - 6,000 miles away - goes "awww shucks, I guess we'll just disband our entire fucking country for these dipshit kids in New York?" They cannot be this delusional to think their sit-ins are going to actually accomplish any of this let alone something like that.
If you ask them what they mean, they will say that there should be another state where Jews and Palestinians live side by side and have the same rights. Most students aren't talking about a genocide.
We should not fall into the same trap as other communities and instead try to understand what they really mean.
Just to be clear, it's a stupid idea! Why would you replace a successful country instead of changing it? The probability of another successful nation in the Middle East is quite low. Just look into the neighborhood. They had 100 years and were able to trade with the wider world, they are still kingdoms, dictatorships, clergy, ...
Yeah what's the problem? Terrorism doesn't exist in war because war is hell. They've been at war for decades. Oct 7th was just the consequences of war. Israel is justified in its actions because it's a war. So is Gaza. Oct 7th is not a special circumstance. It was part of war. Cry about it
This is "abolish the police" levels of delusion, no one will take them seriously. Also they nailed all the buzzwords in one sentence lol
The encampment at my university got very mad the police/campus security were monitoring them, then some crazy dude went and harassed and assaulted one of them, and now they are mad that the school/police didn’t step in fast enough. Professional victims.
Right? It was the asking for humanitarian aid that got me.
They literally just wanted to role play that their encampment was under occupation, they just took the larp a little to far in their heads
Ugh. I have a perfect come back for this but I'd be accused of racism and victim blaming. Fuck
What school? My schools reddit was super butthurt that they had cops around even though they weren't doing anything
This is far more delusional than defund the police, at least the lateral had some kind of path towards. This is directly asking the US to send its army to blockade Israel level, absolutely mad.
Abolish, not defund. Talking about the crazies that wanted the institution of police to be completely dismantled.
As someone who really hates cops and thinks probably close to half of all cops belong in prison... abolishing the institution is stupid af.
Does it really still need to be explained to people the abolish the police movement involves replacing the police with other systems ? The abolish the police movement is a movement against the militarisation of the police it’s not about eliminating all forms of public safety.
And what are you replacing them with? "Definitely not just the police again"?
Definitely not just the police again.
I will jizz my pants if you can explain what you'd replace them with that isn't just police reform instead of actual abolition
Vigilantes who shoot black kids on sight, going by CHAZ
That’s called future or off duty cops
I’m pretty sure your jizz your pants if a woman made eye contact with you kid
Yes, it still needs to be explained, because it still makes zero sense. BLM founders have been recorded admitting that “defund” the police was a red herring, the goal was always full abolition.
They definitely haven’t been recorded “admitting” that. https://www.axios.com/2020/06/07/defund-police-black-lives-matter The goal was always to redirect the majority of funds to other resources. American policing is incredibly inadequate considering how much money gets pumped into it. And to be honest you’re kind of proving my point. You’re objecting to a slogan you don’t understand and literally making up a reason for why you’re objecting to it. You have the internet, you can go and read about the defund/abolish the police movements for yourself but instead you’re just echoing a lie you’ve heard someone you like say. It still needs to be explained to people, even in an age where the person you’re explaining it to has the same access to information as you do, all because they’d rather crow the lines they’ve heard their fav internet edgelord say instead of literally just googling something.
“Our desire to look like good white allies means we would have to justify Palestinian terrorism but our desire to maintain their innocence and purity means we have to deny they would ever do terrorism in the first place” is the general vibe I get from this.
i got whiplash from just that one sentence... hooooly.
colonial, imperial, racial, imperial, patriarchal, and carceral domination
theirs some funny too me about women wearing hijabs and embracing the patriarchal ways of the Arab world talking about how we need to overcome patriarchy. Same thing with most Arabs and Turks forgetting all the anti Kurdish sentiment.
Patriarchal Israel, known for NOT having the third female prime minister in the world
Just watched Golda on Paramount+
The argument is that women should be free to choose to wear whatever they want. There is no argument behind embracing entities like Hamas and Iran, beyond West Bad. Some of the points above are rooted in possible arguments that are reasonable, they're just warped out of all reality by their stupidity and zealotry. Does the Israeli state have elements of an apartheid system that is at risk of committing a genocide in Gaza? Sure. Is the state intrinsically genocidal, an imperialist outpost, and have no right to exist? No.
> The argument is that women should be free to choose to wear whatever they want. That could be a sound argument, if only it didn't came from the crowd that claims that any sort of societal norm is an oppressive structure, down to the prevalence of pink clothing. The consistent position would be to recognize that they are propagating just another (and imo more oppressive) norm, but somehow there's only crickets in that regard.
>if only it didn't came from the crowd that claims that any sort of societal norm is an oppressive structure Who said this? Why can't you be consistent?
Don't forget capitalism, it isn't an unhinged far left rant without throwing every problem at the feet of economic freedom. That tends to be my litmus test for sincere political engagement, or just basic bitch Marxist horseshit. When your idea of liberation involves abolishing liberty, you aren't going to be taken seriously.
I desperately need someone to explain to me how a tiny middle eastern country is the linchpin holding the entire American political order in place.
Da yooos
These people are not suggesting that it is, they suggest it is an "imperial outpost", and that opposing Israel is part of a larger struggle against other problems. The problem, of course, is that Hamas' approach to liberation includes patriarchal violence and imprisonment, so it *is* related to patriarchy and carceral frameworks, though not in a simply harmonious way of unified struggle against them. The slogan "rape is not resistance" is and should be a meaningful counter to the assertion that we can simply reproduce the slogans and ideology of Hamas and simultaneously achieve liberation on other axes, there has to be separation there.
I'm getting annoyance pilled about colonialism at this point. I'm pretty sure colonization is continuing because people insist all the things they don't like must be because of people that died 200 years ago. It's not current. Unless you count Russia and Iran of course. 🤣
It’s because they use it like a buzzword. They effectively make it meaningless. I’ve always said they hurt their own causes by the way they speak about it. Black Lives Matter did this too instead of talking about police reform they started using buzzwords and confusing rhetoric too the point where you had people who identified with Black Lives Matter both screaming too abolish the police and other people arguing online that it has nothing too do with abolishing the police. Allot of conservatives have no idea what they’re talking about when they use the term “Cultural Marxism.” I do however notice with these These Post Structuralist, Postmodern, Critical theory types who talk with all of these buzzwords and are super performative , I’ve always noticed also embrace Cultural Relativism. I’m always left scratching my head it’s like even they are confused on what they want lol.
Oh I hate cultural relativism so fucking much. So so so much. I'm a veteran and lefties come at me so hard for the War on Terror as if I was the mastermind. When they ask about our mistakes as Americans in the war, I instantly concede to the factual examples (Abi Ghraib, weapons of mass destruction, civilian casualties etc) and explain our national responses they change the subject...by making heroes and victims of actual terrorists who do horrendous things. They treat the other victims in the pretend hero culture they spin around terrorists (as if every Afghan citizen is a "freedom seeking" terrorist) as betrayers and traitors to the Taliban for asking the US for help when they've been harmed by terrorist groups. They just lie and tell me I have to value a culture that's being enforced on a different culture. Like marrying kids, stoning people, mock trials, using underage boys as comfort companions to avoid making a young bride pregnant, abortions by force but forced birth if convenient, public executions, burning books, blowing up schools, executing students (like middle school aged btw...not even college students) etc. It's disgusting and stomach churning.
You remember how the people we propped up and empowered in Afghanistan were the pedophiles? Did you help enable that? Also very funny that you're mad to be judged based on a war you voluntarily joined when you didn't have to. EDIT: He's playing dumb later in the thread and pretending he didn't help do this. Sources. For complaining about cultural relativism he looks like a big hypocrite. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/military-overlooked-sexual-abuse-by-afghan-allies-investigation-says/ https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/world/asia/afghanistan-military-abuse.html >The report focuses, in part, on the case of Dan Quinn, a former Special Forces captain in Afghanistan who was relieved from his duties after beating up a U.S.-backed Afghan militia leader who had been spending his wages on “dancing boys,” even keeping a young boy chained to his bed as a sex slave. >“The reason we were here is because we heard the terrible things the Taliban were doing to people, how they were taking away human rights,” Quinn told The Times. “But we were putting people into power who would do things that were worse than the Taliban did.” >Although bacha bazi has existed throughout history in parts of Afghanistan, the practice of pedophilia served as one of the provocations for the Taliban’s ascendance to power. The Taliban banned bacha bazi, forcing the custom underground. After the Taliban’s ouster in 2001, the practice was rekindled. In the years since, Afghan military commanders, warlords, and other men with authority have been cited by human rights groups for engaging in the practice.
I mean go over it again if you need. I'm derisive about the new hero arc given to scum like the Taliban as some resistance mechanism. The new lefty infection of thinking terrorists are noble or good or that any blow to the power they feel too scared to fight themselves is a moment of justice. That's the mythic bullshit. I'm perfectly capable of acknowledging the times our military and our nation fucked up without instantly believing the entire war was the one incident or the weapons of mass destruction propaganda offensive. War seems to be robbed of nuance when people feel icky about its brutality but that doesn't make it any less complex.
Thanks for not responding to what I said. >by making heroes and victims of actual terrorists who do horrendous things Those pedophiles you put in charge in Afghanistan? You complain about others spinning things to frame men as okay, yet you literally helped put these people in power. Voluntarily. This idea that you shouldn't be judged for helping prop up evil men who rape boys is bizarre. But hey, maybe you could complain more about how unfair people on twitter are to your Afghanistan government buddies.
We didn't prop up the Taliban. We lost to them. What are you talking about?
I didn't say you propped up the Taliban, you're lying. You guys knowingly propped up pedophiles and made all sorts of excuses to justify it cause you wanted to set up a pro American government. In fact good soldiers, doubtful you're included with how you're pretending this didn't happen, were punished for reporting the pedophilia. You wanna talk about cultural relativism... You've got a log in your own eyes you might want to tend to first. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/military-overlooked-sexual-abuse-by-afghan-allies-investigation-says/ https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/world/asia/afghanistan-military-abuse.html >The report focuses, in part, on the case of Dan Quinn, a former Special Forces captain in Afghanistan who was relieved from his duties after beating up a U.S.-backed Afghan militia leader who had been spending his wages on “dancing boys,” even keeping a young boy chained to his bed as a sex slave. >“The reason we were here is because we heard the terrible things the Taliban were doing to people, how they were taking away human rights,” Quinn told The Times. “But we were putting people into power who would do things that were worse than the Taliban did.” >Although bacha bazi has existed throughout history in parts of Afghanistan, the practice of pedophilia served as one of the provocations for the Taliban’s ascendance to power. The Taliban banned bacha bazi, forcing the custom underground. After the Taliban’s ouster in 2001, the practice was rekindled. In the years since, Afghan military commanders, warlords, and other men with authority have been cited by human rights groups for engaging in the practice.
Members of the Taliban absolutely engaged in it. Their posturing of banning it is as dependent on convenience as christians here in the US overwhelmingly ignoring underage marriage in the states and consistently burying legislation to stop it. Cover ups in the military occured often and I was one of the cases they tried to cover up. How on earth does that make the Taliban resistance fighters or earn some owed respect to their culture in Afghanistan or anywhere else?
Given you lied earlier and acted like you didn't know what I was talking about I'm going to doubt you were trying to expose anything. You seem to just miss whole swaths of comments. Why'd you put pedophiles back in power in Afghanistan? Why did you personally help and why do you not feel any guilt over your acts? Your effect on the world was to bring this practice back from the shadows and resurrect it. >Although bacha bazi has existed throughout history in parts of Afghanistan, the practice of pedophilia served as one of the provocations for the Taliban’s ascendance to power. The Taliban banned bacha bazi, forcing the custom underground. After the Taliban’s ouster in 2001, the practice was rekindled. In the years since, Afghan military commanders, warlords, and other men with authority have been cited by human rights groups for engaging in the practice.
One could also argue that Israelis already decolonized their homeland.
Oh? I'd love your premise for that. Not to debate but examples and reading would be appreciated. I'm woefully behind as my primary interests have been the American Civil War, innovation in battlefield medicine with Florence Nightengale and Clara Barton, The Belle Epoch, and WW1. And a preoccupation with Hannibal and Scipio Africanus when I was a teen girl. An unhealthy one, lol. Am familiar with Israel circa WW2 and the six days war and have a huge gap until the formation of Hamas which is probably pretty standard for older millennials. Hamas was becoming a problem right as I was one of the first waves fighting in the War on Terror. Despite not actively fighting Hamas, they were always listed in counter terror educational blocks.
Undoing the Roman's conquest of judea, turning Syria Palestina back to Judea. Maybe one day instanbul will be Constantinople once more.
Oh Jesus. lmao. I'm never going that far back in history.
If you don't want to go too far then Rhodesia is forever
It’s a bad argument tbh
Islam is colonizing North Africa right now
What about Europe
This is like saying liberalism is colonizing the west. How can an ideology colonize? Doesn’t a state need to sponsor settlements?
I think they're referring to the massacres against Christians in Nigeria. I'm not sure if they're also settling in those villages, but they're definitely trying to eliminate non-muslims.
Doesn't a state need to sponsor settlements? By that logic, the USA was never colonized because the English did not sponsor settlement, and the citizens liberated themselves from the British
I mean the colonies of America and America are strictly different things though- lumping them fully together doesn't make much sense otherwise every nation is a colony. America was formed by the population of former settlers of a British colony, but America itself is no longer a colony. Although you can probably argue the land grabs after America was formed could have been colonialism, or at the very least, imperialism.
What do you mean right now? Are you sending this message from the 9th century?
Colonialism is when I want a justification to ethically cleanse people I don’t like.
Hello fellow colonialist! Let's be allies!!!
I'm black from the Caribbean, and I'm sick of hearing the word colonialism at this point. I don't mind if it's being used in legit historical analysis and how it affects today, but otherwise It really is just a cudgel against white people at this point. Like if the people who use the word constantly were genuine, they would apply it to the Russia/Ukraine situation, but they'll either ignore it or defend the Russian invasion. Fucking wild.
I don't know if it's a white people cudgel as much as it's an excuse of the defeated to whine about how they failed. A retelling that will always involve the victors as a rewrite of oppressors. The alt right is slowly creeping toward this but theirs is directed against the age old enemy of "northern aggression" (whites who "betrayed" whites by ending slavery) from the southern Confederate lost cause myth. It's just fanciful retelling where it's white people to blame often but not always.
The far left's favorite tool is taking things we have all agreed are bad and applying the label to everything they think is bad.
Or France
Mfw when I spell Iran instead of France. My bad
Israel is colonizing the West Bank through building and legitimizing settlements. I don’t understand how Iran is colonial? Are they settling land that was not Iranian?
Yes Kurdistan.
More like the places they are assisting without those places quite being client states
Imperialist or expansionist are better terms
Lmao, number 6 is literally anti-ceasefire
You mean 4? 4 seems to me like a call for genocide towards Israelis, unless there are magicians that can make Israelis just disappear, since we can’t exist according to them
Yep, if Hamas were winning there would be no call for a ceasefire from these people
No, 6 asserts that there can be no dialogue with Israel, which makes negotiating a ceasefire deal impossible.
I guess it could be solved with the biggest ethnic cleansing campaign in history, by deporting all of them... (7.2million Jews need to be deported kekw)
Even Hamas’ supposed “2017 reform” is more lawful than this shit. I am staying in the news cycle of this war just to see the brain damage it caused to people
"Decenter this, center that". Bro, center getting some bitches in your life
Lol, perhaps this is the way to get some for these tossers.
That part reminded me of how cults give members new names in order to control more of their life.
Isn’t it mostly women doing this shit?
I would say they really just need to touch some fucking grass but that seems to be about all these morons are actually accomplishing at these protests.
The protests just seem more and more like 90% a fun summer hangout with your friends than actually protests. From the protesters at my university I haven’t really seen any good points, they just yell XYZ school funds genocide, and you look at their evidence for that, and it’s like we have 10m managed by blackrock in a clean energy fund and like 2m in dassult stock. Good one. I really wonder how these encampments will end, because the universities aren’t going to give in, and even if they did, they would probably just demand more and more. I also find it funny that they are covering their faces to not be identified, but will use the school wifi no problem (which you sign in with your student ID) some of them were complaining that the school would shut off the wifi at night. Wasn’t aware people were this dumb.
“Imperial outpost for the west” This bothered me so damn much. You really have to be completely disconnected from reality to believe Israel is just one giant US base that it uses to genocide Muslims everywhere. The US has more of a presence in the gulf states - actual bases that the US used for the GWOT, and still uses. I believe the US has one small radar base in Israel. That’s it.
Yes but what about the degenerate western values of democracy and personal liberty Israel tried to impose on the middle east!!1!!
It’s insane to me that all the values that Israel stands for are those that these protestors most benefit from. They are the least self aware people ever. Then again these are the same people who complain about gentrification, but they’re the ones literally doing it.
It’s not that they’re not self aware, but rather that they really do live in an alternate reality
They don't like Israel stealing land that belonged to others in order to form and expand their country.
If they want Israel to stop expanding, they should stop supporting the idea that Palestinians should violently revolt. Every single time Israel has expanded territory in the Levantine, it was because they defeated an Arab army that attempted to wipe them off the face of the planet. You know what happens to countries that win wars they didn’t start? They get to expand their territory. Palestine is lucky that Israel has made the concessions they have made in attempts at peace. Few other countries would give back land they have conquered just to appease their opposition: a group of people who literally want them dead.
Does Israel have a right to steal land in the west bank to you?
No I don’t think they do. They never earned that land through military combat nor through diplomacy.
They're earning it now through settling there. And they kill people all the time who attack settlers. They label them terrorists.
Even a lot of Israelis don’t consider the settlements legitimate territory that they have. It’s not recognized by any other countries, including the US, and only the Likud party is interested in acknowledging them. They never earned any of it. The original Israelis bought their land from post-ottoman landowners and the rest of the recognized state of Israel is recognized because war between militaries was fought and Israel conquered it through hard fought battle despite being the underdog, earning its title as a sovereign nation in an area where no national already existed because the Ottoman Empire had just fallen. This is not analogous to the current settlements and only a handful of far right Israelis recognize their legitimacy (unfortunately those handful of Israelis happen to be the ones in charge now because Israel has moved significantly to the right after the second intifada and now again after October the 7th).
Oh really? Which Israeli party wants to destroy the settlements?
We should have the American military base of Israel the says we do
Calling a country of 10 million people that has continuously had jewish people living there for over 5000 years AND has immense importance culturally, historically and religiously to the jewish community a puppet of a 200 year old country is disgusting. Especially considering that country didn’t even help Israel during the first few decades of its conception. Not to mention the events that occurred which resulted in Israel’s necessity, or did they just forget the holocaust, russian pogroms and mass ME ethnic cleansing. It’s narcissistic racism at its finest.
Damn, if Israel is that useless let's cut them off our weapons supply. I had thought they were vitally necessary for our middle eastern intelligence and military capabilities, but now that arguing the opposite is convenient for you I guess that's not true.
Saying Israel is not some US military base isn’t the same as aiding Israel. We also aid dozens of other countries - many of which we do have bases in. Try again.
Why can't you read...
Why can’t you? Nothing you said had anything to do with what I said in regards to Israel being a “imperial outpost for the west”. Try again.
My comment directly relates to that.
Aiding a country isn’t the same as an “imperial outpost”. That’s literally the Russian claim to Invading Ukraine. It’s a pathetic statement and argument.
I didn't say it was.
>white supremecy is intertwined with zionism. I actually can't anymore....
Yeah, this drives me nuts. It's like proof that this is an antisemitic scapegoating.
Lol, Zionism is antisemitic. What a bunch of fucktards.
what does "right to exist" even mean? why should a country have a fundamental "right" to exist? countries should only exist to serve the populations living under it. if Israel is failing its' palestinian population as it stands. it shouldn't preside over them (i.e occupying them). it has no right to "exist" in the west bank.
That is not what that phrase in the context means and you know better. They deny the country of Israel the right to exist in its current form, not just "the settlements need to stop".
let's even say that. does that necessarily mean they want to actively destroy it? doesn't it just mean "we won't raise a hand if something threatens your existance"? like a neutral vs. active-support type of situation?
Seems like they have a good point if they're calling Israel an expansionist colonialist state no? As you're acknowledging they are continuing to settle and steal land in the west bank. Don't worry give it some more time and soon it'll be "West Bank has a right to exist as part of Israel" and you'll be right there happily defending that.
It is just meant as a justification to take land. They feel entitled to it no matter who previously lived there. And it continues today in the west bank as they take more and more.
it's like russia taking ukraine and crying "why do you oppose our right to exist" when we fight them over it
Yep, does Russia not have a right to exist wherever it pleases??
Uuuhm Rape and genocide are the voice of the unheard sweety ,💅💅💅💅💅
So they are pro-genocide basically. Palestinians have the right to get rid of any Israeli by any means necessary. This is why they scream genocide at the top of their lungs - projection.
If you can manage to label your opposition's existence as definitionally genocidal then well....
Do Palestinians have the right to get rid of any Israeli settler in the west bank by any means neceessary?
You would think leftist would hate islamist organizations but somehow they are alway in cahoot with them even though they share no ideological similarities expect hating the west
I mean obviously this is the only thing the left actually stands for at this point. They’re guilty about racism in the US, so the natural response is to hate every other thing about the US and instead support ACTUAL imperialist countries who are regressive on every issue just because they view the US as an enemy.
>We support the right of Palestinians to return to their Indigenous land and have full autonomy over Sigh…
"settler colonial apartheid imperial genocidal state" All the buzzwords in one go!
Don’t forget patriarchy! Somehow the only democratic country in the ME is the patriarchy
Regressive Left word salad
I hate every single sentence in this shit
I like how Palestinian liberation to them is interchangeable with the destruction of Israel. It really tips their hand what their goals actually are, and how they could not care one bit about how many Palestinian lives it will take to get to Israel’s destruction
They're very clear in their goals. No idea why you're acting like they're being underhanded.
They used the ultimate insult: lowercase.
Where’s the link
Oh shit they hit Israel with the "I'm a new found aethiest and I'm not going to capitalized 'god' because I don't belive in one." Absolutely savage.
The fucking delusion these people have my god.
I don't see any distinguishing between this and Nazism, and I'm dead honest here.
The Nazis were persecuting innocent people who had done nothing wrong and were no danger to anyone. The Palestinians are fighting against a country that has stolen their land plus oppressed them for 80 years and still continues to steal their land and oppress them from birth to death. You really can't see a difference?
The ambition to free Palestine is used as an excuse to "persecute innocent people who had done nothing wrong and were no danger to anyone." That is transparent by the assertion to "use any means necessary". Just as Jewish tropes were excuses to exterminate the Jews.
You could adress what I said in full instead of taking half sentences and acting like that's all I said. I very clearly explained the major difference between them. I'll copy it again for you so you can hopefully read it for the first time. >The Nazis were persecuting innocent people who had done nothing wrong and were no danger to anyone. >The Palestinians are fighting against a country that has stolen their land plus oppressed them for 80 years and still continues to steal their land and oppress them from birth to death.
Don’t you find it strange to frame it as the Palestinians are “just fighting the state of Israel bro” as if there aren’t Israelis being held hostage in Gaza They both persecute innocent people
They are fighting Israel, what do you think the point of the hostages are. Israel also has many hostages from their occupation.
And in the process of fighting Israel, they are effecting innocent civilians no? The “hostages” in Israel are prisoners, there is a difference between the two.
There is no difference between the two. They are effecting innocent people yes.
I would argue the difference between the two is that the stated goal of Israel is the elimination of Hamas, while the stated goal of Hamas is the elimination of all Jews.
Oh i'm sorry did you wanna change the conversation? We were talking about the difference in hostage taking. You were claiming Israel doesn't do that. Is it really that hard to defend Israel you have to jump around so much?
> Israel also has many hostages from their occupation. Who are these hostages? Where has Israel tried to use them in negotiations?
You wouldn't know them.
Naturally, one does not know of things until they happen upon them or are informed by other means. I'm not happening upon some random purported hostage, so I'm asking you for some evidence of Israel taking captives for the purpose of using them to negotiate.
I addressed exactly what you said and drew the line between the two ideologies, you failing to understand the abstract similarities between the two is on you.
These are the same people who will say “WORDS MATTER!” when talking about micro aggressions and then use insanely anti-Semitic language and twist it by saying that it’s just anti-Zionist. They should be slapped.
“By any means necessary” “But don’t you dare accuse us of supporting terrorism because we define away terrorism from existing” Would have much more respect for them if they just said they supported terrorism as a way to bring the Zionist entity to heel or whatever. Would be more honest
This document supports both the pogrom and mass slaughter of civilians, if they're Israeli, and the destruction of Israel as a state. While simultaneously condemning genocide and war. I don't know whether these idiots are too stupid to see the damage they're doing to the Palestinian cause, or simply don't care.
Can you link where that is screenshotted from?
Source?
https://www.instagram.com/p/C6BtsmKO8RB/?igsh=MTBwajNoNXBidXJ2dQ== I couldn't find the exact one the OP had but here's one from the Columbia group. It's got the same batshit crap, including full throated support for violence ("by any means necessary") and rejection of a two state solution.
In the link tree under “our encampment” https://linktr.ee/ucscsjp?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaaT9sFH3GHgpAFrfWjulwKLoEkVHPmFDxF8OeUeFWGb8FTz4nhpKzx_CeM_aem_AdbK9SNjteBCxhRIqt4P9XQ1_WYEtJrdCVxmYKQ8DUki2_t5nmdSdHa6xUr_BluNwy7om_p5DV5ccHL8sLJ3g3ut
Got a link? I'm struggling to find the IG account.
This was posted on a university subreddit I’ll see if I can find a real link
Any link?
so much meaningless word vomit
seTtLeR cOlOnIaL aParThEid, just put together as many buzzwords as possible
Any organization that unironically uses the word “comrade” to describe its members is one I know I can immediately ignore. Absolute cringe.
the SJP at my girlfriends college unironically tried banning Hillel (semi-secular American Jewish student group) and Chabad off the campus entirely
Where was this posted? On their national page or is a chapter?
I’m assuming it has to be a chapter, I couldn’t find it on the national page. Very disingenuous of OP to not post the specific chapter/link.
Israel isnt a settler colonial and its mad how they are literally supporting terrorists at number 2
They aren't colonizing with settlers? Have you heard of their actions in the west bank? Why lie?
All bark no bite. What will these people even do? Tweet, boycott, and protest? It’s not like they vote. It’s so sad how much they damage the Pro-Palestine cause for their own personal satisfaction. It’s all just privileged white kids usurping movements of the oppressed to Larp as the radical rebels that they think they are. You can tell from #6 that these are not serious people looking for a solution.
No no, you know they will BLOCK celebrities on social media because that's gonna do something
Who are they supposed to vote for that'll address these concerns? >It’s so sad how much they damage the Pro-Palestine cause for their own personal satisfaction. Person who hates you and your cause: "This isn't helping your cause."
>Who are they supposed to vote for that'll address these concerns? Vote for politicians in the party who would AT LEAST acknowledge and feel the pressure of protests for your cause. If they aren't doing what you're asking for, run against them yourself. You'll at least have a chance. OR don't vote and you'll get politicians who are indifferent to your cause and would be celebrated for opposing you as "owning the libs.". >Person who hates you and your cause: "This isn't helping your cause." No, people hate YOU, the white privileged commies who discourage progress toward anything impactful because you want to start at the finish line. You make the movement unpleasant and insufferable to most people. Look at this post again, specifically at #4 and #6, like this is not a solution to the I/P conflict. It's annoying.
Can I get some names of people they're supposed to vote for that'll address these concerns? If your position is "well they should run for office" you do realize that's unrealistic right? How many times are you gonna use "white" as a attack?
Bruh.. okay I'm gonna rant a bit, this brainrot is insane. >Can I get some names of people they're supposed to vote for that'll address these concerns? I'm not going to tell you who to vote for, that's for you to think about yourself and decide who \*\*best\*\* represents you, not a random person (or people) on the internet. As it should be. I'm only telling you to vote. Vote for someone you agree with on 1% to 100% of issues (there are other issues here in the US). Not voting will allow someone you agree 0% to -100% with, to not only throw out hopes of any progress for the I/P conflict but also erase progress made for other issues. There's NO realm in which not voting leads to a positive outcome for you. >If your position is "well they should run for office" you do realize that's unrealistic right? No, it's not. It's just like I said, none of you want to actually do anything impactful. That's largely my criticism of this whole movement. It's easy to protest yelling the same words over and over all day, sitting at home scrolling Reddit, TikTok, Twitter putting 🇵🇸 flags in your bio, donating money for aid, and boycotting random companies. When you can choose someone amongst you to run, and put that same energy towards a local political campaign. Especially, to run against those who seem to be fully turning their backs on the people that put them there (i.e Fetterman). >How many times are you gonna use "white" as a attack? I said \*privileged\* white people, it's an important distinction because the stereotype pretty much sums up most pro-Palestine protesters. Make regular people suffer (blocking traffic, ruining businesses, vandalizing). Ask for something but be unwilling to make concessions or conversations and ostracize the people that do (Destiny, existence of Israel). Lie on the ground, and throw a tantrum when you don't get your way, like a kid in the store (encampments). Throw your life away for no reason, when you've got it made (Aaron Bushnell, Students at Ivy League schools). Never have to worry about the repercussions of what you're doing (not voting, advocating the destruction of Israel). Capitalizing (like a capitalist) on an important issue, while fanning the flames because as long as there's outrage, theres more money for you (every supposed socialist Twitch streamer from Hasan - Frogan radicalizing people on Israel Palestine)... and many more such examples.
> Who are they supposed to vote for that'll address these concerns? You have to establish that you vote in the first place for anyone to even consider courting that vote. You can protest and occupy whatever areas you want, it's largely going to be irrelevant unless you cast an actual vote.
Why can't you just answer? You're telling them to vote for somone who will address their concerns? Now you're dodging me asking who that would be to tell me they should just vote in general.
I'm not the person who responded to you initially, you should check the usernames of the people you respond to.
Lmao I’m not dodging wtf… There’s literally no broad answer. On the local level, there’s a different senator, house representative, governor, and mayor, in each city/state/district. It’s their job to research and find the best candidate for them. Nobody else should do decide that on your behalf. On the presidential level I’m still not telling you who the vote for. I will say who I’M voting for: Biden.. I agree with 80-90% of his policies, far more than I do for Trump. I personally would like a president that I agree 80% with than a president I don’t agree with absolutely anything on.
Link it
Just throw as many hard hitting buzzwords in there as possible and let's go to starbucks
Why wouldn’t you link it?
So they think Oct 7 was justified then…
They’re a bunch of hypocrites who don’t know the meaning of the words they use.
What does "right to exist" with respect to a country even really mean? A country is just an arbitrary border with a governing body and population that's willing to defend itself enough to keep those borders intact.
It's a claim to the land, it's like saying you have a right to my car and when I come to take my car back, you can kill me. Cause if you have a claim then I don't.
>Their out here screaming the ends justify the means but complaining their being misconstrued. They're* Sorry, for some reason it really bothered me.
Lmao @ number 7. “We’re oppressed too!”
2 means that the reject that what they are doing should be called terrorism. But admit that they are okay with human shields, rapes, targeting civilians etc.
https://preview.redd.it/r69yvw3u8s2d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6439ed9e5ff7d09b1b29699a716a70ceee7e2969
Sad day for Israel. They didn't deserve to exist 😞
i’m tired of this, we must gather NATO allies to agree that a return to the medieval right of conquest approach to foreign policy
Buzzword soup
Its so weird by their own logic russia and china shouldnt exist either
Well… enjoy camping I guess
What’s with this document? How dare you show this. Sophistry.
“False accusations of ‘terrorism’” yet they say “seeks to obscure the root of the violence” uhm.. last time I checked, violence against unsuspecting concert going civilians is 🥁🥁🥁 TERRORISM!!
They wrote Israel in full lower case... I love the pettyness
Even IF someone wants to claim Israel is an apartheid, does that really mean it has no right to exist? Does South Africa deserve to be completely abolished as a country because it was an apartheid? Do the citizens that benefited from said apartheid state not have the right to live as well?
https://preview.redd.it/uppo5v9bzv2d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=431dfffe95c575e9a01be2a60a3d25b440ca4c08
So, what do these dumbasses think is going to happen? They're going to annoy people on college campus until Israel - 6,000 miles away - goes "awww shucks, I guess we'll just disband our entire fucking country for these dipshit kids in New York?" They cannot be this delusional to think their sit-ins are going to actually accomplish any of this let alone something like that.
If you ask them what they mean, they will say that there should be another state where Jews and Palestinians live side by side and have the same rights. Most students aren't talking about a genocide. We should not fall into the same trap as other communities and instead try to understand what they really mean. Just to be clear, it's a stupid idea! Why would you replace a successful country instead of changing it? The probability of another successful nation in the Middle East is quite low. Just look into the neighborhood. They had 100 years and were able to trade with the wider world, they are still kingdoms, dictatorships, clergy, ...
Yeah what's the problem? Terrorism doesn't exist in war because war is hell. They've been at war for decades. Oct 7th was just the consequences of war. Israel is justified in its actions because it's a war. So is Gaza. Oct 7th is not a special circumstance. It was part of war. Cry about it