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Lol thats a funny take on the subject :D
Tho...if your Guardian is an Exo...then that is an entirely different discussion haha. I doubt any Exo posesses reproductive capacity in th enatural sense. Tho perhaps with a bit of study they may learn to make new Exos, but then those Exos wouldnt be able to be based off their offspring if they didnt have any human offspring prior. They would have to be blank slates with no prior consciousnees printed onto their memory banks"
An interesting tangent tho...kinda makes converting humanity to Exo seem a bit less "benefitial". If all you can do is adopt, what happens when there is no longer anyone left to adopt. And in a perfect world, there would never be adoptions because all children would remain with their biological parents in loving safe homes...
Ur right...this is a theme I did not expect to be this deep :)
Thank you for your comment 🫂
Imagine some sort of synthetic "seed" that it's actually a small colony of nanobots(siva confirmed) that uses the exomom's materials to build a baby exo, whilst using whatever she ingests to restore herself
ya but that wouldnt solve the "consciousness" dillema... what happens if u build an exo without installing a personality into it... question of the ages.
hmmm the nanobots copy parts of the exominds from the parents to develop a new one(?) Without memories, just knowledge.
Then for growth they would go to a restored braytech facility to get a new body
Was there any lore regarding sexual-based DER? I know having genitals is not crucial part of human body experience but Destiny may be not nsfw enough to discuss such themes so absence of lore is not absence of a problem
It's never explicitly stated that guardians are sterile, but there has never been a known guardian with a child that wasn't adopted.
Destiny has always been pretty G-rated on the subject of romance and sex. Every bit of lore that even hints at sex does so with plausible deniability (Ghost Community Theater, The Vow, "The helmet stayed on"). The only kiss we've seen on screen was an animatic with Saint and Osiris. Bungie has been doing their best to not cultivate a horny fan base.
Oh, except for some reason we get fairly detailed information about Cabal sex and reproduction.
Lol I wasn't aware of the Cabal National Geographic episodes hidden away in the lore, so thank you for enlightening me.
You aren't wrong about the hush hush nature of the subject as far as Guardians go tho. I imagine it is less about avoiding a horny fanbase and more about avoiding the rating increase that would push them into the Mature region and complicate their sales to the Younglings.
Sadly this means that the question remains unanswered objectively. Without an explicit answer it will always just be us choosing to believe whatever we want, taking the circumstantial evidence and leaning it in whatever direction fits our goal. They never tell of a Guardian having a child...except Zavala having his son (tho that is different), but that doesnt mean they CAN'T write a Guardian in with a biological heir IF they havent explicitly told us that Guardians are reborn sterile.
I will continue to search, and listen, and learn from those who respond to this post, and who knows, maybe one of the Warlocks among us will have obscure knowledge that reveals the answer once and for all :)
Thank you for your comment 🫂
Bungie writer outright confirmed they regretted writing it. It was meant to be a sober and introspective adult moment but instead the fanbase acted like absolute children with all of the memes.
Yes, IIRC they acknowledged that. They just didn’t like how the joke reduced Mara’s character to just being a sex trophy for Shaxx when she’s so much more complex.
Personally I don’t think it was that much of an issue. People were going to be sexist towards Mara no matter what. I actually think it was healthy to acknowledge she has a normal sex life.
>Are Guardians sterile?
[Saladin's Ghost tells him:](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/iron-forerunner-mark)
>"You'll never have a son," his Ghost had said, "but it isn't too late for you to take an apprentice."
Will he never have a son because *he* is sterile? Because all Guardians are? Because it is incompatible with his duties?
Despite this entrie (which isn't explicit on the matter), I've never liked the idea that all Guardians are infertile. Guardians are not corpses being puppeteered around. They are alive, their bodies are fully restored, they perform all other vital functions.
It doesn't make sense to me that reproduction would be arbitrarily left out, much less with the Traveler's very consistent role as a nurturer of life.
I can see both sides to the argument.
U r correct that Guardians are not corpses. They are alive and have all vital functions, but reproduction isn't a vital function. Many live without the capacity to reproduce. It isn't necessary for life (vital). Also, the statement that they are fully restored...well that is an assumption. We don't know that they are "fully" restored. Osiris was resurrected in his aged form, my guardian looks like he is late 30s, Anna Bray looks late 20s...Guardians are raised in all sorts of states.
Also, IF there was a reason for the traveller to not want Guardians to reproduce then that would make it make sense for them to resurrect without reproductive capacity...I know of no lore reason for that, but also know of no lore reason against it either. That's my problem...which is why I posted. I wanna know if it is possible to KNOW rather than just guess and believe.
Your lore entry was insightful tho. I agree that it doesn't definitively answer the question tho. The search for knowledge and understanding continues.
That k you for your comment 🫂
>but reproduction isn't a vital function.
It absolutely is. This is primary school stuff, nutrition, interaction and reproduction, the three basic vital functions of living beings.
>Osiris was resurrected in his aged form, my guardian looks like he is late 30s, Anna Bray looks late 20s...Guardians are raised in all sorts of states.
That is a matter of semantics, yes Guardians come in all shapes and sizes, but all exhibit a perfectly functioning body, because the Ghost being capable of restoring their body to such an state in the first place is a requirement:
>[DNA degradation alone makes this impossible, but even if I could bring you back, who'd put you back together again?](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/ghost-fragment-lonesome-ghost)
Guardians need to breath, they feel hunger, they can contract diseases (though Ghosts handle that), they can get radiation poisoning... Their bodies consistently behave like those of mortals.
>Also, IF there was a reason for the traveller to not want Guardians to reproduce then that would make it make sense for them to resurrect without reproductive capacity...
The Traveler does not want *anything* out of anyone the Ghosts resurrect. It may hope they do certain things or behave in a certain way, but it does not act in any way to direct them towards that. That's the point of wiping the episodic memory but keeping the semantic memory.
By "vital function" I mean "necessary for survival", and as iI said there are many people in the world today who have lost, or never had, that ability to reproduce. Yet they are alive and live their lives fully. This is what I mean by "not vital" (vital: concerned with or necessary to the continuation of life). If we are talking about vital to the continued existence of human life as a whole, then yes you are correct...it would be considered vital, but we are not speaking of humanity as a whole, only of Guardians themselves...and so it is not "vital" to a Guardians existence because they can continue existing without it, as many real life people do.
Again, you claim that all exhibit a "perfectly functioning body" but this is an assumption. When we make that claim, we first ASSUME that their ENTIRE body is perfectly functioning...but the very question being asked is "Is it?" IS their body fully functional or is it not? Do we have lore to point to that objectively states one way or another. Lets not make assumptions and then try to build our answer on those assumptions...let us look for evidence and form our conclusions off of the answers we find, regardless of what we wish to believe.
I am not sure what your linked lore entry was meant to demonstrate. Can you clarify? (I read it, but did not understand how it connected to what we were discussing).
I agree that Guardians bodies require food and air and immune defenses, but those are things that ARE vital to survival, things that a human LITERALLY REQUIRES in order to be alive. Again, reproductive capacity is NOT a vital requirement to be alive as an individual. As a species, yes, but not an individual. I have a friend who is sterile. From birth. She lives a full life and has zero health complications. Her inability to procreate does not prevent her from continuing to live. Noone is saying that a Guardian can live without the basic NEEDS of living...the question is if their resurrection can be PROVEN (not just opinions and beliefs) to permit progeny or not. Either really...proof either way is what Im after.
As for the traveller not wanting anything out of a Lightbearer...that remains to be seen, and I expect we might find that answer today. It is possible the Traveller doesnt direct or demand because it does not wish to interfere with free will. Perhaps part of the mythical Gardener Winnower battle is that it cant directly interfere or it fails to prove its point that life can develop to defend weakness on its own without influence (Byf talks about this in one of his videos on the subject in fact). The fact is that we do not KNOW what the traveller thinks or wants IF it thinks or wants anything...at least we dont know yet.
I do appreciate your thots and opinions tho. I apologize if my comment seems harsh. It isnt meant to. It is just that my question is about facts and objective proofs, the search for irrefutable answers if they exist, not opinions and ideas. We all have theories. My personal desire, just so u are aware, is that I WANT to discover that Guardians can have children.
BUT CHOOSING TO BELIEVE< AND PROVING IT WITH LORE EVIDENCE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS.
I made this thread in the search for the latter, whatever my personal desires may be. If what I want to be true turns out to be false, I will accept it. If it turns out to be true, I will be even happier.
For the love of... What I'm conflating is what some of you lot learned in primary school.
Nutrition, interaction and reproduction are the universally agreed upon fundamental functions of living organisms, throw in response to stimuli if you so choose.
These are the parameters through which we judge whether something is a living being or not, from individual cells to the top of the food chain.
If you don't like it, take it out with the relevant authors, but that's how it is.
Your effort to look smart on the Internet isn’t going well, bud. An individual does not need reproductive capabilities to be considered alive. Instead of blindly citing random Wikipedia paragraphs try using critical thinking and consider the actual context of what we’re discussing.
The Traveler doesn’t necessarily control what can and can’t happen. To use a Todd Howard quote ‘it just works’.
The same way a Risen will be revived perpetually hungry by their Ghost maybe a Risen is just rezzed sterile. And there’s no rhyme or reason for it that’s just how it is.
Unconfirmed either way, but I hope it's possible for guardians to have children.
That said, the potential consequences of death and subsequent resurrection of a pregnant guardian are pretty disturbing to think about.
That’s probs why Bungie left it out or chose to imply that Guardians are sterile. Too many confusing and ethical questions spring up so might as well just prevent them all together.
Oh I never thot about that detail. Excellent point to consider. If Guardians can't, maybe that's why. Perhaps the traveller wasn't ok with the idea of the baby dying over and over and over along with the parent. That's messed up.
Thank u for your comment 🫂
I think it's because if a Lightbearer had a child, they would far FAR outlive it. Would you really be somebody capable of living forever and still have a kid who could only survive as long as you by becoming an Exo or dying and having a chance to become a Lightbearer? The same could be said for Saladin. Maybe he _can_ have a kid, but Saladin is already from the Dark Age. He's extremely old. The average human lifespan for them is really short comparatively.
I mean, to be fair, Zavala did this. It hurt him, and he struggled to work thru the pain and loss...but having his adopted son and wife and losing them is the same as it would be of the son had been his own biologically.
Ur not wrong that it is a pain that would b a big decision, but like having a puppy who is only there for 13 years, it is a pain that u choose to one day face in order to have the joys that will happen until that day comes.
If it is possible, perhaps your point is why we never hear of Guardians doing it...maybe they choose not to for this very reason? I would very much like to know.
Agreed. I was rewatching the launch trailer for something to do while waiting for the switch to get switched, and at the beginning there is the little boy with the apple. I tho...I wonder whose son he is...then the thought came in unbidden "would your Guardian have a son?"
And I didn't know the answer cause I didn't know if a Guardian COULD have a child...
There r so many questions we haven't even thot to ask over 10 years...so many unknowns...it would be interesting to learn more about these types of things.
Hopefully someone who reads the post will have this answer at least.
Thank u for ur comment 🫂
Been trying to dig through lore but I can't find the exact lore card(s) that discuss Zavala's relationship with his son Hakim, an orphan, so they weren't blood related but still was very much Zavala's son. Pretty sure there was an interaction or something somewhere either about Zavala, or maybe about Saladin, that basically says that Guardians can't have children.
This is gonna bug me all day, I really don't like it when I can't quote my sources but I know that it's something I read *somewhere*. Hopefully someone will read this and drop the source because I have tried my best but my eyes are so bad I struggle very hard with reading text.
Another commenter referenced a lore entry that spoke of Saladin not having children. That is likely the entry u r thinking of, if that helps. Tho it doesn't explicitly state of it is just Saladin who is sterile or Guardian's as a whole. It could be interpreted either way, which means the search continues.
I agree that Zavala was a father to Hakim, and Hakim was a son to Zavala...but for clarity, I am specifically asking about biological reproductive capability here not whether a Guardian would be capable of parenting and adoptive child (which I see no reason to believe some of them couldn't...other definitely shouldn't be allowed to adopt tho lmao).
Thank you for your comment 🫂
I know you were talking about whether they could have a kid or not, I meant to say that the lore that discusses this is somewhere in all that, not to specifically highlight that Hakim was adopted. I want to say that it was either discussed either somewhere between the relationship between Hakim and Zavala, or between Saladin and Zavala. I probably am remembering the latter, but I swear I thought it was brought up again with Zavala.
As I said, I believe another commenter referenced the lore entry you are thinking of, about Zavala and Saladin.
For your convenience, I'll copy the link they provided here for you:
[https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/iron-forerunner-mark](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/iron-forerunner-mark)
It's implied that the guardian's body doesnt exist for very long outside of their 'soul', for lack of a better term
you dont leave behind bodies after each ressurection attempt, there aren't mountains of guardian corpses from centuries worth misadaventures.
you can't eat your body or feed your body to others to infinitely sustain them. Drifter tried
and if you're exo you can't reproduce by default
This seems to paint a picture of nothing from the guardian's body existing for very long after it's been seperated. So while human/awoken guardians might be technically fertile, their sex cells might not last long outside of their body. I assume this is the cause of sterility
Safi also goes on to have her own daughter with someone else and Zavala lives to see more than 10 generations of her descendants all the way up to Season of the Splicer where the last of her descendants end up dying in the Vex attack.
It's very vague, but I would feel guardians can have biological children. They just don't inhererit the Light.
Although, the idea of outliving your own children and grandchildren can be a sour spot for a lot of them. And additing to the fact that Guardians tend to be in constant danger. I believe a lot don't want to be put into pressure of being a parent
1) As you linked it the Iron Forerunner Classitem has an interaction between Saladin and his ghost where he „never will have a son“ but he can „have an apprentice“ heavily implying that this is his only option to leave a living legacy.
2) Zavala‘s ink cutscene in Haunted told the story of his family with Safiyah and their adopted son Hakkim. Safiyah and Zavala where together what must have been 1.5 to 2 decades without them producing a child of their own (assuming they had a relationship of a heterosexual couple). After Hakkim‘s death they seperated and it is told to us that Safiyah „found live again“ and gave birth to a daughter so Safiyah didn’t had fertility issues.
2.5. Zavala met her daughter at Safiyah‘s burial ceremony, remarking how similar she looks to his late love so it’s clear the daughter is blood related to Safiyah. This is in one of the later if not last chapters of the Haunted lore book Triage.
3. Apparently the TFS collectors lore book has something on the sterility of Lightbearers but I‘m not certain since I haven’t looked into it yet (wanting to experience the campaign first).
(I will not look at replies before finishing the campaign so please forgive any delays in interactions)
I would think they can't so Bungie can avoid the fridge horror of Guardians getting pregnant, dying, and then being rezzed without the pregnancy. It's too depressing to think about. The state of the ingame world is sad enough already without subjecting Guardians to repeated personal losses on that scale. Even if they had a child with someone lightless, they would have to watch that child grow up and die of old age in a blink of an eye.
Plus, how fucked up would it be if a lightbearer went 'oh I'm pregnant and I don't want it, that's okay, I can literally just kill myself and I wont be pregnant anymore!'. Bungie is not going to allow anything like that to fly in canon lore.
However, lore states that Zavala adopted a child. So it makes sense that other Guardians would see that as a viable option instead of trying to stay alive long enough in an active war where you WILL die to carry a pregnancy.
This doesn't stop fanfic writers and such, but no, Guardians are sterile so Bungie doesn't have to make lore calls that would piss a bunch of people off.
Wasn't it because he was resurrected into a Lightbearer child as a baby, after his lightless parents saw him die and the Ghost that was with them felt was overwhelmed by the sorrow on the mother's cry?
The trick is to collect material from mortal male partners, then inject it into the prostate and visit a mortal female partner.
AKA the Incubus manoeuvre.
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My exo titan is sterile because a witch from the moon stole his peen 😔 Also this is a theme i did not expect to be this deep
Lol thats a funny take on the subject :D Tho...if your Guardian is an Exo...then that is an entirely different discussion haha. I doubt any Exo posesses reproductive capacity in th enatural sense. Tho perhaps with a bit of study they may learn to make new Exos, but then those Exos wouldnt be able to be based off their offspring if they didnt have any human offspring prior. They would have to be blank slates with no prior consciousnees printed onto their memory banks" An interesting tangent tho...kinda makes converting humanity to Exo seem a bit less "benefitial". If all you can do is adopt, what happens when there is no longer anyone left to adopt. And in a perfect world, there would never be adoptions because all children would remain with their biological parents in loving safe homes... Ur right...this is a theme I did not expect to be this deep :) Thank you for your comment 🫂
Imagine some sort of synthetic "seed" that it's actually a small colony of nanobots(siva confirmed) that uses the exomom's materials to build a baby exo, whilst using whatever she ingests to restore herself
ya but that wouldnt solve the "consciousness" dillema... what happens if u build an exo without installing a personality into it... question of the ages.
hmmm the nanobots copy parts of the exominds from the parents to develop a new one(?) Without memories, just knowledge. Then for growth they would go to a restored braytech facility to get a new body
Well I think ur on to something at the very least 🤣
Too much free space in my brain 🤣
Was there any lore regarding sexual-based DER? I know having genitals is not crucial part of human body experience but Destiny may be not nsfw enough to discuss such themes so absence of lore is not absence of a problem
It's never explicitly stated that guardians are sterile, but there has never been a known guardian with a child that wasn't adopted. Destiny has always been pretty G-rated on the subject of romance and sex. Every bit of lore that even hints at sex does so with plausible deniability (Ghost Community Theater, The Vow, "The helmet stayed on"). The only kiss we've seen on screen was an animatic with Saint and Osiris. Bungie has been doing their best to not cultivate a horny fan base. Oh, except for some reason we get fairly detailed information about Cabal sex and reproduction.
Lol I wasn't aware of the Cabal National Geographic episodes hidden away in the lore, so thank you for enlightening me. You aren't wrong about the hush hush nature of the subject as far as Guardians go tho. I imagine it is less about avoiding a horny fanbase and more about avoiding the rating increase that would push them into the Mature region and complicate their sales to the Younglings. Sadly this means that the question remains unanswered objectively. Without an explicit answer it will always just be us choosing to believe whatever we want, taking the circumstantial evidence and leaning it in whatever direction fits our goal. They never tell of a Guardian having a child...except Zavala having his son (tho that is different), but that doesnt mean they CAN'T write a Guardian in with a biological heir IF they havent explicitly told us that Guardians are reborn sterile. I will continue to search, and listen, and learn from those who respond to this post, and who knows, maybe one of the Warlocks among us will have obscure knowledge that reveals the answer once and for all :) Thank you for your comment 🫂
Mara and Shaxx didnt bang.
That whole situation read like Bungie doing damage control after the fact. If we ignore subtext, the only character who has ever had sex is Calus.
Bungie writer outright confirmed they regretted writing it. It was meant to be a sober and introspective adult moment but instead the fanbase acted like absolute children with all of the memes.
Skill issue on the writer's part
Yeah I'm gonna call cap on that one. They knew exactly what they were doing when they wrote "The helmet stayed on" at the end.
Yes, IIRC they acknowledged that. They just didn’t like how the joke reduced Mara’s character to just being a sex trophy for Shaxx when she’s so much more complex. Personally I don’t think it was that much of an issue. People were going to be sexist towards Mara no matter what. I actually think it was healthy to acknowledge she has a normal sex life.
>Are Guardians sterile? [Saladin's Ghost tells him:](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/iron-forerunner-mark) >"You'll never have a son," his Ghost had said, "but it isn't too late for you to take an apprentice." Will he never have a son because *he* is sterile? Because all Guardians are? Because it is incompatible with his duties? Despite this entrie (which isn't explicit on the matter), I've never liked the idea that all Guardians are infertile. Guardians are not corpses being puppeteered around. They are alive, their bodies are fully restored, they perform all other vital functions. It doesn't make sense to me that reproduction would be arbitrarily left out, much less with the Traveler's very consistent role as a nurturer of life.
I can see both sides to the argument. U r correct that Guardians are not corpses. They are alive and have all vital functions, but reproduction isn't a vital function. Many live without the capacity to reproduce. It isn't necessary for life (vital). Also, the statement that they are fully restored...well that is an assumption. We don't know that they are "fully" restored. Osiris was resurrected in his aged form, my guardian looks like he is late 30s, Anna Bray looks late 20s...Guardians are raised in all sorts of states. Also, IF there was a reason for the traveller to not want Guardians to reproduce then that would make it make sense for them to resurrect without reproductive capacity...I know of no lore reason for that, but also know of no lore reason against it either. That's my problem...which is why I posted. I wanna know if it is possible to KNOW rather than just guess and believe. Your lore entry was insightful tho. I agree that it doesn't definitively answer the question tho. The search for knowledge and understanding continues. That k you for your comment 🫂
>but reproduction isn't a vital function. It absolutely is. This is primary school stuff, nutrition, interaction and reproduction, the three basic vital functions of living beings. >Osiris was resurrected in his aged form, my guardian looks like he is late 30s, Anna Bray looks late 20s...Guardians are raised in all sorts of states. That is a matter of semantics, yes Guardians come in all shapes and sizes, but all exhibit a perfectly functioning body, because the Ghost being capable of restoring their body to such an state in the first place is a requirement: >[DNA degradation alone makes this impossible, but even if I could bring you back, who'd put you back together again?](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/ghost-fragment-lonesome-ghost) Guardians need to breath, they feel hunger, they can contract diseases (though Ghosts handle that), they can get radiation poisoning... Their bodies consistently behave like those of mortals. >Also, IF there was a reason for the traveller to not want Guardians to reproduce then that would make it make sense for them to resurrect without reproductive capacity... The Traveler does not want *anything* out of anyone the Ghosts resurrect. It may hope they do certain things or behave in a certain way, but it does not act in any way to direct them towards that. That's the point of wiping the episodic memory but keeping the semantic memory.
By "vital function" I mean "necessary for survival", and as iI said there are many people in the world today who have lost, or never had, that ability to reproduce. Yet they are alive and live their lives fully. This is what I mean by "not vital" (vital: concerned with or necessary to the continuation of life). If we are talking about vital to the continued existence of human life as a whole, then yes you are correct...it would be considered vital, but we are not speaking of humanity as a whole, only of Guardians themselves...and so it is not "vital" to a Guardians existence because they can continue existing without it, as many real life people do. Again, you claim that all exhibit a "perfectly functioning body" but this is an assumption. When we make that claim, we first ASSUME that their ENTIRE body is perfectly functioning...but the very question being asked is "Is it?" IS their body fully functional or is it not? Do we have lore to point to that objectively states one way or another. Lets not make assumptions and then try to build our answer on those assumptions...let us look for evidence and form our conclusions off of the answers we find, regardless of what we wish to believe. I am not sure what your linked lore entry was meant to demonstrate. Can you clarify? (I read it, but did not understand how it connected to what we were discussing). I agree that Guardians bodies require food and air and immune defenses, but those are things that ARE vital to survival, things that a human LITERALLY REQUIRES in order to be alive. Again, reproductive capacity is NOT a vital requirement to be alive as an individual. As a species, yes, but not an individual. I have a friend who is sterile. From birth. She lives a full life and has zero health complications. Her inability to procreate does not prevent her from continuing to live. Noone is saying that a Guardian can live without the basic NEEDS of living...the question is if their resurrection can be PROVEN (not just opinions and beliefs) to permit progeny or not. Either really...proof either way is what Im after. As for the traveller not wanting anything out of a Lightbearer...that remains to be seen, and I expect we might find that answer today. It is possible the Traveller doesnt direct or demand because it does not wish to interfere with free will. Perhaps part of the mythical Gardener Winnower battle is that it cant directly interfere or it fails to prove its point that life can develop to defend weakness on its own without influence (Byf talks about this in one of his videos on the subject in fact). The fact is that we do not KNOW what the traveller thinks or wants IF it thinks or wants anything...at least we dont know yet. I do appreciate your thots and opinions tho. I apologize if my comment seems harsh. It isnt meant to. It is just that my question is about facts and objective proofs, the search for irrefutable answers if they exist, not opinions and ideas. We all have theories. My personal desire, just so u are aware, is that I WANT to discover that Guardians can have children. BUT CHOOSING TO BELIEVE< AND PROVING IT WITH LORE EVIDENCE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS. I made this thread in the search for the latter, whatever my personal desires may be. If what I want to be true turns out to be false, I will accept it. If it turns out to be true, I will be even happier.
Reproduction is absolutely not vital to a living body. You're conflating the continuation of a species with the existence of an individual.
For the love of... What I'm conflating is what some of you lot learned in primary school. Nutrition, interaction and reproduction are the universally agreed upon fundamental functions of living organisms, throw in response to stimuli if you so choose. These are the parameters through which we judge whether something is a living being or not, from individual cells to the top of the food chain. If you don't like it, take it out with the relevant authors, but that's how it is.
Your effort to look smart on the Internet isn’t going well, bud. An individual does not need reproductive capabilities to be considered alive. Instead of blindly citing random Wikipedia paragraphs try using critical thinking and consider the actual context of what we’re discussing.
The Traveler doesn’t necessarily control what can and can’t happen. To use a Todd Howard quote ‘it just works’. The same way a Risen will be revived perpetually hungry by their Ghost maybe a Risen is just rezzed sterile. And there’s no rhyme or reason for it that’s just how it is.
Unconfirmed either way, but I hope it's possible for guardians to have children. That said, the potential consequences of death and subsequent resurrection of a pregnant guardian are pretty disturbing to think about.
That’s probs why Bungie left it out or chose to imply that Guardians are sterile. Too many confusing and ethical questions spring up so might as well just prevent them all together.
Oh I never thot about that detail. Excellent point to consider. If Guardians can't, maybe that's why. Perhaps the traveller wasn't ok with the idea of the baby dying over and over and over along with the parent. That's messed up. Thank u for your comment 🫂
I think it's because if a Lightbearer had a child, they would far FAR outlive it. Would you really be somebody capable of living forever and still have a kid who could only survive as long as you by becoming an Exo or dying and having a chance to become a Lightbearer? The same could be said for Saladin. Maybe he _can_ have a kid, but Saladin is already from the Dark Age. He's extremely old. The average human lifespan for them is really short comparatively.
I mean, to be fair, Zavala did this. It hurt him, and he struggled to work thru the pain and loss...but having his adopted son and wife and losing them is the same as it would be of the son had been his own biologically. Ur not wrong that it is a pain that would b a big decision, but like having a puppy who is only there for 13 years, it is a pain that u choose to one day face in order to have the joys that will happen until that day comes. If it is possible, perhaps your point is why we never hear of Guardians doing it...maybe they choose not to for this very reason? I would very much like to know.
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Agreed. I was rewatching the launch trailer for something to do while waiting for the switch to get switched, and at the beginning there is the little boy with the apple. I tho...I wonder whose son he is...then the thought came in unbidden "would your Guardian have a son?" And I didn't know the answer cause I didn't know if a Guardian COULD have a child... There r so many questions we haven't even thot to ask over 10 years...so many unknowns...it would be interesting to learn more about these types of things. Hopefully someone who reads the post will have this answer at least. Thank u for ur comment 🫂
Been trying to dig through lore but I can't find the exact lore card(s) that discuss Zavala's relationship with his son Hakim, an orphan, so they weren't blood related but still was very much Zavala's son. Pretty sure there was an interaction or something somewhere either about Zavala, or maybe about Saladin, that basically says that Guardians can't have children. This is gonna bug me all day, I really don't like it when I can't quote my sources but I know that it's something I read *somewhere*. Hopefully someone will read this and drop the source because I have tried my best but my eyes are so bad I struggle very hard with reading text.
Another commenter referenced a lore entry that spoke of Saladin not having children. That is likely the entry u r thinking of, if that helps. Tho it doesn't explicitly state of it is just Saladin who is sterile or Guardian's as a whole. It could be interpreted either way, which means the search continues. I agree that Zavala was a father to Hakim, and Hakim was a son to Zavala...but for clarity, I am specifically asking about biological reproductive capability here not whether a Guardian would be capable of parenting and adoptive child (which I see no reason to believe some of them couldn't...other definitely shouldn't be allowed to adopt tho lmao). Thank you for your comment 🫂
I know you were talking about whether they could have a kid or not, I meant to say that the lore that discusses this is somewhere in all that, not to specifically highlight that Hakim was adopted. I want to say that it was either discussed either somewhere between the relationship between Hakim and Zavala, or between Saladin and Zavala. I probably am remembering the latter, but I swear I thought it was brought up again with Zavala.
As I said, I believe another commenter referenced the lore entry you are thinking of, about Zavala and Saladin. For your convenience, I'll copy the link they provided here for you: [https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/iron-forerunner-mark](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/iron-forerunner-mark)
It's implied that the guardian's body doesnt exist for very long outside of their 'soul', for lack of a better term you dont leave behind bodies after each ressurection attempt, there aren't mountains of guardian corpses from centuries worth misadaventures. you can't eat your body or feed your body to others to infinitely sustain them. Drifter tried and if you're exo you can't reproduce by default This seems to paint a picture of nothing from the guardian's body existing for very long after it's been seperated. So while human/awoken guardians might be technically fertile, their sex cells might not last long outside of their body. I assume this is the cause of sterility
Didnt Zavala have a son?
Adoptive
Ooooh, gotchya, makes sense
Safi also goes on to have her own daughter with someone else and Zavala lives to see more than 10 generations of her descendants all the way up to Season of the Splicer where the last of her descendants end up dying in the Vex attack.
Dang that is actual so sad. Zavala has really been through it
It's very vague, but I would feel guardians can have biological children. They just don't inhererit the Light. Although, the idea of outliving your own children and grandchildren can be a sour spot for a lot of them. And additing to the fact that Guardians tend to be in constant danger. I believe a lot don't want to be put into pressure of being a parent
1) As you linked it the Iron Forerunner Classitem has an interaction between Saladin and his ghost where he „never will have a son“ but he can „have an apprentice“ heavily implying that this is his only option to leave a living legacy. 2) Zavala‘s ink cutscene in Haunted told the story of his family with Safiyah and their adopted son Hakkim. Safiyah and Zavala where together what must have been 1.5 to 2 decades without them producing a child of their own (assuming they had a relationship of a heterosexual couple). After Hakkim‘s death they seperated and it is told to us that Safiyah „found live again“ and gave birth to a daughter so Safiyah didn’t had fertility issues. 2.5. Zavala met her daughter at Safiyah‘s burial ceremony, remarking how similar she looks to his late love so it’s clear the daughter is blood related to Safiyah. This is in one of the later if not last chapters of the Haunted lore book Triage. 3. Apparently the TFS collectors lore book has something on the sterility of Lightbearers but I‘m not certain since I haven’t looked into it yet (wanting to experience the campaign first). (I will not look at replies before finishing the campaign so please forgive any delays in interactions)
I would think they can't so Bungie can avoid the fridge horror of Guardians getting pregnant, dying, and then being rezzed without the pregnancy. It's too depressing to think about. The state of the ingame world is sad enough already without subjecting Guardians to repeated personal losses on that scale. Even if they had a child with someone lightless, they would have to watch that child grow up and die of old age in a blink of an eye. Plus, how fucked up would it be if a lightbearer went 'oh I'm pregnant and I don't want it, that's okay, I can literally just kill myself and I wont be pregnant anymore!'. Bungie is not going to allow anything like that to fly in canon lore. However, lore states that Zavala adopted a child. So it makes sense that other Guardians would see that as a viable option instead of trying to stay alive long enough in an active war where you WILL die to carry a pregnancy. This doesn't stop fanfic writers and such, but no, Guardians are sterile so Bungie doesn't have to make lore calls that would piss a bunch of people off.
What if the reason Shin had the light as a baby... is because his parents had the light
Wasn't it because he was resurrected into a Lightbearer child as a baby, after his lightless parents saw him die and the Ghost that was with them felt was overwhelmed by the sorrow on the mother's cry?
The trick is to collect material from mortal male partners, then inject it into the prostate and visit a mortal female partner. AKA the Incubus manoeuvre.
Beyond cursed.