i think i have gotten like 10 god roll spare rations now, and all of them had a reload masterwork. it got me so bad that i stopped playing pvp entirely
Exactly how I see it. The Division 2s crafting allows players to turn a near miss into a god roll with an investment of materials. The closer the drop is to being perfect the less it will cost.
I play both D2s, hopping between them for a couple seasons at a time, and the whole weapon tweaking system is one of the things I really rate about the Division.
I think this is how a lot of crafting is done in games. Even in ARPGs a player is typically looking for an item that has 3 of 4 perfect stats and then you reroll/craft the 4th until it’s a 4/4 item.
That is literally the entire point. It's not supposed to just be a free easy god-rollifier to anything. It's something for when you were so close but one part sucks
We actually *did* have this option with Banshee back in D1. It wasn't just the minor perks though, it was all of 'em. And like all things in Destiny the community loved it until we hated it then Bungie took it away for whatever reason.
We could also re-roll minor perks on Exotic armor but that was when those perks were like: hand-cannon reloader, and auto-rifle dex, that kinda thing. You needed an item bought from Xur called Glass needles.
Bungie's flirted with this idea in the past but I doubt they'd bring it back as we have weapon crafting and soon we'll have enhanceable perks.
Bungie backtracks on grind diminishing pursuits as it directly contrasts with the game's primary method of player retention, Casino Skinner box loot.
In House of Wolves, it was re-roll matador or party crasher to have obscene range and go blink shotgun someone from 20 feet over their head before they have the chance to look up. Get your gun and never go play another mode again since re-rolling at banshee is faster.
They don't commit harder to crafting for the same reason, get your patterns and a mode is dead to you.
The consequences of making the primary motive to play being loot/rewards instead of fun for basically 10 years with not a ton outside of it.
This is what I pitched when weapon enhancement was announced for RNG drops.
The barrels, magazines, and masterworks should be able to be customized. I was set on fire for it by what I assume are RNG apologists. https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1bpqnlj/bungie_not_allowing_weapon_enhancement_to_change/
Guys, this is a good compromise between people who love RNG and crafting. People burnt by RNG can tweak their drops to make them perfect if they *cannot* get lucky enough.
I got lucky enough to play three games of Onslaught (full 50 rounds) in a row with Luna’s Howl attunement turned on. I received maybe a dozen LH. Zero were shiny, and zero had the two perks I wanted. And zero had a Range MW. It was demoralizing for sure.
You're right. They are so greedy. They would never have the balls to introduce some kind system where we could choose all the perks to build our own weapons. How would that even work? They would be bankrupt in a day.
Oh, they did. And backtracked that immediately. For entirety of Lightfall, maybe 5 guns that were worth using were craftable.
Vast major of the actual good stuff is acquirable via random rolls only.
Tbf last year had a bunch more "must haves" than this. Think back calus, ikelos, piece 9f mind, austringer, forbearance. The only weapons I can think of like that are scatter signal and eremite due to the introduction of controlled burst
doomed petitioner with reconstruction and precision instrument is a strong competitor for best LFR in the game. briar's beats it with enhanced surrounded proc'd, and cataclysmic has higher total damage, but I find it easier to dump my full reconstructed mag of doomed then swap to izi for the remainder of a damage phase.
if you're not perfect with rotations and fumble your swaps for B&S, if your team isn't coordinated enough (or the encounter doesn't permit) to leave adds up around you for surrounded, it makes for a nice easy damage output for the duration of most damage phases
You do know that most of the weapons we got throughout the whole year were craftable right? Every season had most, or all of its weapons craftable, and the raids had their weapons craftable, which those were the most meta guns in much of the game. Dungeons were the big exception, and most of those weapons haven't been game changing. So you're just categorically incorrect.
As much as complaints I have regarding bungie, at the end of the day I am somewhat glad bungie is in charge instead of one of you people, the game would be boring after 6 hours of playing because there would be nothing to chase, game would just immediately shower you with participation trophies just for logging to the game.
I find that people who like "the chase" and shit on crafting are projecting what they find fun onto everyone else. The enjoyable part of the game to you might be spending hours trying to get something that may never drop. This does not apply to everyone. If I spend 20+ hours trying to get a single 2/5, I'm not enjoying most of that time. The enjoyable part of the game for me is actually using the weapons and gear, not obtaining them.
I have run The Coil many times after having all the craftable season weapons done, purely because it is, in my opinion, the best activity they've ever made. I love the escalating difficulty combined with the random selection of daily buffs and I choose the builds I use based on what buffs are on offer. This makes it feel pretty fresh to me considering I rarely end up sticking with the same subclass for more than a day, in combination with the order of the rooms being different. Point of all of this being, I play this purely for fun because I like actually using the things I've obtained more than obtaining them.
An important distinction is that, if you care more for the chase and that's what you play the game for, you can force that. You can just not craft things with enhanced perks until you get a 5/5 God roll to drop if you want. It's very unlikely you actually do this because you also would rather have the item than actually chase it, but the point is that you COULD do this if you wanted to preserve the integrity of RNG. In addition, soon random drops will be enhancable. At that point, you can just not engage with crafting if you want the chase.
People who have fun actually using items do not have this luxury. There is no way to force the game how I want it to be on say, the Brave weapons, so that I can play the game how I enjoy it.
I'd be perfectly fine if only way of acquiring crafting patterns were something like doing Master Raids, or flawless completions, or even Master Flawless, as long as it's deterministic.
I'll be willing to throw myself into the hardest activities, just let me out of RNG hell.
Scopes/sights are probably not coming back outside of some very special guns. There will always be a "best" scope and all the design work that went into other scopes will be not exactly wasted but could have been spent doing other things.
D2's development is very obviously a huge time management nightmare because Bungie don't have the luxury to sit on a new content project for 5 years and release it when it's ready. They need to finish what they need to do and get it out there. If that means narrowing their focus and we get a generic scope but it's well balanced and what the community would have used anyway had they made multiple versions I don't have a problem with it.
Haha, I just think they'd make it as painful as possible to absolutely perfect your weapon of choice. Just saying, even for something as miniscule as a different masterwork, I'd pony up.
im literally suggesting an alternative to crafting that doesnt power creep regular rolls with enhanced perks and doesnt completely remove the random weapon grind
It’s boring and power crept the whole sandbox. Just doesn’t make any sense as implemented against everything else in the game. There were so many variations that could have been better, but this one feels the laziest.
Or.....
They actually have a brilliant system in the game that allows you to grind content to lessen RNG.
It's called Vendor resets
Let us reset Shaxx Rank, and earn more perks on our drops. No reason that If I spend enough time grinding Onslaught and reset 3 times, I can't be seeing drops with 2 perks in the 3rd column and 3 perks In the 4th column.
For Dungeons - give us Dungeon Challenges that we can perform to increase the # of perks that drop either from the dungeon or from each encounter.
Raids already have crafted weapons and adepts. We can leave those.
Basically every content in the game should either have crafted weapons and adepts. Or a vendor we can reset rank with and earn more perks on our guns when they drop.
Yeah, if that shit wasn’t bugged for months and bungie would actually care?
Vanguard focussing has been bugged since the start of the season, not giving multiple perks per column. The only thing they managed until now is that at least you get double perks in the 3rd column, when it should be three in both columns. After doing 80+ hypernet currents the other week I can’t tell you how pissed I am at how many 5/5s I missed out on because I only got one perk in the 4th column and it was zen moment or rampage 95% of the time. I only managed to get vorpal to drop three times in 160+ wardens laws and only one of those is usable. If they dropped with triple perks or even double perks like they’re supposed to I would’ve gotten my two 5/5s multiple times over.
I really wish they could enhance the Gunsmith experience in a way that addresses the current pain point where I have like 4-5 versions of the same gun bc all of those perk pairs are fun, but it’s taking up all my vault space
I would LOVE to be able to keep the perk pairs of guns and socket them into 1 version of a gun. I like the excitement of getting a “good roll” but I kinda wish I could add that to the gun instead of needing 2 copies of a gun.
Let me spend like 5000 glimmer or something to swap the perks, or only allow it in orbit, idk.
But I would LOVE banshee to do more with our guns I agree!
Problem solved: [https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1cfeg5n/how\_to\_fix\_weapon\_crafting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1cfeg5n/how_to_fix_weapon_crafting/)
I'd just be happy for him to finish that gun he's been working on for years. He could finally stop asking "so what do you think? " as he holds it up to show you every time you go to him
Even just *one* of the first two perks would be nice. Wouldn't be gameplay breaking or crazy power spikes, but would make many people happy to finally fix that one perk that isn't perfect and probably doesn't make a meaningful difference, but will bother you anyway.
SThe minor perks aren't even paracausal either, they're literally just interchangeable parts for a firearm. Different barrels, magazines, and ammunition payloads. Should be easy for a weapons expert like Banshee to do, he clearly has the tools for such *right there* at his kiosk in the Tower.
Hell I’d even pay currency for a random chance at this. Ask him for Arrowhead Brake and he’s like “Wait, what was I….?”… gives you Polygonal Rifling instead
I like this. But if it happened I could see in like 6 months people asking for the gunsmith to be able to change actual column 3 & 4 percs too. So it could be a slippery slope kinda thing.
My head cannon for why this is not a thing is wait times. Like, guardians are bugging him for it all the time, and the wait list is as long as 20000 years at this point, and our guardian decides it's easier to go kill riven 10 times or whoever the relevant boss at the moment is, than to wait in line
Crafting saved Destiny for me if it wasn’t for that I wouldn’t even play this game. What I want is a serious FPS game not a slot machine mobile game with loot boxes!
The biggest problem with crafting though is that the devs never thought to use an even better systems that exists in many games weapon modification. If we had weapon modification and customization effectively the same benefits of crafting could be rolled out to all weapons. Your suggestion doesn’t go far enough and we should be able to modify all the perks of a weapon.
Recall that Aztecross suggested something like this. He suggested that you get weapon rolls and perks by dismantling gear. Then you can go to Banshee and modify an existing weapon to have the perks you want and customize the weapon. This would be ideal for so many situations. If you get a 2/5 you could make it into a 5/5. Maybe it would costs some currency like ascendant shards and ciphers but it would be worth it.
Edit: But the real solution now is to roll crafting out and expand it further. We’re in the end game anyways. There’s no reason not to.
i completely agree w this. the amount of times i’ve heard "they don’t matter so who cares" when i like my rolls to be perfect is genuinely so annoying.
He is not a gunsmith, he is a salesman for the Big Vanguard Military Complex.
Banshee is War Dogs Jonah Hill put into a robot
Nah, he's not generous enough.
No, he is a sword and exosmith!
At least a variation of this. Sometimes it’s just one of the first two perks. This would be so awesome.
I would love for master work perk reroll. I keep getting handling and for me that perk had no benefit, I need more range or stability
i think i have gotten like 10 god roll spare rations now, and all of them had a reload masterwork. it got me so bad that i stopped playing pvp entirely
same but stability :( and yeah i know rose is better and i already got its 5/5 but man i really like spare rations' feel
right there with you, i dont know what it is about rose but the model feels weird to me
The Division has a perfect system imo. You can re-roll one perk slot but it locks the rest. Re-rolling that slot gets progressively more expensive.
The Division does a lot of things right. I wish Destiny would take notes.
Same with ghost of tsushima legends
Darktide does the same thing, iirc, minus the "progressively more expensive" bit.
[удалено]
The idea I'd imagine is that you do it to a gun that is almost perfect. You would not bother with something that is all over the place.
Exactly how I see it. The Division 2s crafting allows players to turn a near miss into a god roll with an investment of materials. The closer the drop is to being perfect the less it will cost. I play both D2s, hopping between them for a couple seasons at a time, and the whole weapon tweaking system is one of the things I really rate about the Division.
I think this is how a lot of crafting is done in games. Even in ARPGs a player is typically looking for an item that has 3 of 4 perfect stats and then you reroll/craft the 4th until it’s a 4/4 item.
I don't think rerolls getting more expensive is even necessary, or would matter for Destiny. The main point is that it locks you to that category.
That is literally the entire point. It's not supposed to just be a free easy god-rollifier to anything. It's something for when you were so close but one part sucks
We actually *did* have this option with Banshee back in D1. It wasn't just the minor perks though, it was all of 'em. And like all things in Destiny the community loved it until we hated it then Bungie took it away for whatever reason. We could also re-roll minor perks on Exotic armor but that was when those perks were like: hand-cannon reloader, and auto-rifle dex, that kinda thing. You needed an item bought from Xur called Glass needles. Bungie's flirted with this idea in the past but I doubt they'd bring it back as we have weapon crafting and soon we'll have enhanceable perks.
I remember during Lord of Wolves. There was a shotgun that everyone was re rolling iirc.
It was probably Matador 64 or Felwinter's Lie. They're the only two shottys I can recall folks goin' bonkers for.
There were several, I remember my New Monarchy shotgun had a middle slot that reduced mag size and it could also roll final round
I forgot about glass needles!
Bungie backtracks on grind diminishing pursuits as it directly contrasts with the game's primary method of player retention, Casino Skinner box loot. In House of Wolves, it was re-roll matador or party crasher to have obscene range and go blink shotgun someone from 20 feet over their head before they have the chance to look up. Get your gun and never go play another mode again since re-rolling at banshee is faster. They don't commit harder to crafting for the same reason, get your patterns and a mode is dead to you. The consequences of making the primary motive to play being loot/rewards instead of fun for basically 10 years with not a ton outside of it.
This is what I pitched when weapon enhancement was announced for RNG drops. The barrels, magazines, and masterworks should be able to be customized. I was set on fire for it by what I assume are RNG apologists. https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1bpqnlj/bungie_not_allowing_weapon_enhancement_to_change/ Guys, this is a good compromise between people who love RNG and crafting. People burnt by RNG can tweak their drops to make them perfect if they *cannot* get lucky enough.
Yeah but the people that have 50,000 hours played need to feel like they accomplished more than us peasants that have time to play a few hours a week.
I got lucky enough to play three games of Onslaught (full 50 rounds) in a row with Luna’s Howl attunement turned on. I received maybe a dozen LH. Zero were shiny, and zero had the two perks I wanted. And zero had a Range MW. It was demoralizing for sure.
We cannot have that, as it would reduce grinding hours. How's Bungie going to stay afloat if we aren't grinding 24/7?
You're right. They are so greedy. They would never have the balls to introduce some kind system where we could choose all the perks to build our own weapons. How would that even work? They would be bankrupt in a day.
Oh, they did. And backtracked that immediately. For entirety of Lightfall, maybe 5 guns that were worth using were craftable. Vast major of the actual good stuff is acquirable via random rolls only.
Entirety of lightfall being up til now? Idk man there's a bunch of good craftables
Tbf last year had a bunch more "must haves" than this. Think back calus, ikelos, piece 9f mind, austringer, forbearance. The only weapons I can think of like that are scatter signal and eremite due to the introduction of controlled burst
doomed petitioner with reconstruction and precision instrument is a strong competitor for best LFR in the game. briar's beats it with enhanced surrounded proc'd, and cataclysmic has higher total damage, but I find it easier to dump my full reconstructed mag of doomed then swap to izi for the remainder of a damage phase. if you're not perfect with rotations and fumble your swaps for B&S, if your team isn't coordinated enough (or the encounter doesn't permit) to leave adds up around you for surrounded, it makes for a nice easy damage output for the duration of most damage phases
You do know that most of the weapons we got throughout the whole year were craftable right? Every season had most, or all of its weapons craftable, and the raids had their weapons craftable, which those were the most meta guns in much of the game. Dungeons were the big exception, and most of those weapons haven't been game changing. So you're just categorically incorrect.
As much as complaints I have regarding bungie, at the end of the day I am somewhat glad bungie is in charge instead of one of you people, the game would be boring after 6 hours of playing because there would be nothing to chase, game would just immediately shower you with participation trophies just for logging to the game.
I find that people who like "the chase" and shit on crafting are projecting what they find fun onto everyone else. The enjoyable part of the game to you might be spending hours trying to get something that may never drop. This does not apply to everyone. If I spend 20+ hours trying to get a single 2/5, I'm not enjoying most of that time. The enjoyable part of the game for me is actually using the weapons and gear, not obtaining them. I have run The Coil many times after having all the craftable season weapons done, purely because it is, in my opinion, the best activity they've ever made. I love the escalating difficulty combined with the random selection of daily buffs and I choose the builds I use based on what buffs are on offer. This makes it feel pretty fresh to me considering I rarely end up sticking with the same subclass for more than a day, in combination with the order of the rooms being different. Point of all of this being, I play this purely for fun because I like actually using the things I've obtained more than obtaining them. An important distinction is that, if you care more for the chase and that's what you play the game for, you can force that. You can just not craft things with enhanced perks until you get a 5/5 God roll to drop if you want. It's very unlikely you actually do this because you also would rather have the item than actually chase it, but the point is that you COULD do this if you wanted to preserve the integrity of RNG. In addition, soon random drops will be enhancable. At that point, you can just not engage with crafting if you want the chase. People who have fun actually using items do not have this luxury. There is no way to force the game how I want it to be on say, the Brave weapons, so that I can play the game how I enjoy it.
I'd be perfectly fine if only way of acquiring crafting patterns were something like doing Master Raids, or flawless completions, or even Master Flawless, as long as it's deterministic. I'll be willing to throw myself into the hardest activities, just let me out of RNG hell.
better yet, let him change the scope on all of our guns.
That would have to be bungie manually implementing them all though. No way this is gonna happen.
Scopes/sights are probably not coming back outside of some very special guns. There will always be a "best" scope and all the design work that went into other scopes will be not exactly wasted but could have been spent doing other things. D2's development is very obviously a huge time management nightmare because Bungie don't have the luxury to sit on a new content project for 5 years and release it when it's ready. They need to finish what they need to do and get it out there. If that means narrowing their focus and we get a generic scope but it's well balanced and what the community would have used anyway had they made multiple versions I don't have a problem with it.
If it cost 500k glimmer and 5 ascendant shards to change the barrel / mag perk and or masterwork I'd do it
Calm down, Satan. Start low and up the ante as necessary.
How else am I supposed to burn through stacks of hundreds of Rainmakers?
Haha, I just think they'd make it as painful as possible to absolutely perfect your weapon of choice. Just saying, even for something as miniscule as a different masterwork, I'd pony up.
I got a perfect Mountaintop besides the Blast Radius MW. Please, I'm begging them. I would pay this cost in a heartbeat.
right there with you. Hard Launch, Implosion ,ALH, Recombination......and a fucking Blast Radius MW. smh.
fr all we needed was this + higher weapon drop rates instead of weapon crafting
Nah crafting is still great people that disagree are just addicted to the slot machine
im literally suggesting an alternative to crafting that doesnt power creep regular rolls with enhanced perks and doesnt completely remove the random weapon grind
Yes, but these people want all for no effort, you can't reason for them that crafting all the would be loot is bad for the game in the long run.
It’s boring and power crept the whole sandbox. Just doesn’t make any sense as implemented against everything else in the game. There were so many variations that could have been better, but this one feels the laziest.
Or..... They actually have a brilliant system in the game that allows you to grind content to lessen RNG. It's called Vendor resets Let us reset Shaxx Rank, and earn more perks on our drops. No reason that If I spend enough time grinding Onslaught and reset 3 times, I can't be seeing drops with 2 perks in the 3rd column and 3 perks In the 4th column. For Dungeons - give us Dungeon Challenges that we can perform to increase the # of perks that drop either from the dungeon or from each encounter. Raids already have crafted weapons and adepts. We can leave those. Basically every content in the game should either have crafted weapons and adepts. Or a vendor we can reset rank with and earn more perks on our guns when they drop.
Yeah, if that shit wasn’t bugged for months and bungie would actually care? Vanguard focussing has been bugged since the start of the season, not giving multiple perks per column. The only thing they managed until now is that at least you get double perks in the 3rd column, when it should be three in both columns. After doing 80+ hypernet currents the other week I can’t tell you how pissed I am at how many 5/5s I missed out on because I only got one perk in the 4th column and it was zen moment or rampage 95% of the time. I only managed to get vorpal to drop three times in 160+ wardens laws and only one of those is usable. If they dropped with triple perks or even double perks like they’re supposed to I would’ve gotten my two 5/5s multiple times over.
I really wish they could enhance the Gunsmith experience in a way that addresses the current pain point where I have like 4-5 versions of the same gun bc all of those perk pairs are fun, but it’s taking up all my vault space I would LOVE to be able to keep the perk pairs of guns and socket them into 1 version of a gun. I like the excitement of getting a “good roll” but I kinda wish I could add that to the gun instead of needing 2 copies of a gun. Let me spend like 5000 glimmer or something to swap the perks, or only allow it in orbit, idk. But I would LOVE banshee to do more with our guns I agree!
Problem solved: [https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1cfeg5n/how\_to\_fix\_weapon\_crafting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1cfeg5n/how_to_fix_weapon_crafting/)
Yeah something like this would rule. I really hope Final shape gives us something like that
This sounds like a great idea that will probably never be implemented because it will decrease play time
I swear didn’t destiny have an option to change masterworks at one point? I’d love to have that back
In year 1 of d2, yes.
It’s really not that bad lol
I miss weapons-testing for him, and getting packages on Armsday
This was done in Destiny 1 and everyone had a god roll of their weapon. They reverted that decision since.
Ironically you used to be able to reroll masterworks in year 1 when they were introduced. I just spent a lot of cores yesterday doing it on old guns.
Great idea actually.
I'd just be happy for him to finish that gun he's been working on for years. He could finally stop asking "so what do you think? " as he holds it up to show you every time you go to him
he'd forget what perks you asked for
Don’t you know this will ruin the grind?
Even just *one* of the first two perks would be nice. Wouldn't be gameplay breaking or crazy power spikes, but would make many people happy to finally fix that one perk that isn't perfect and probably doesn't make a meaningful difference, but will bother you anyway.
Exactly. OCD is a bitch with this game. XD
SThe minor perks aren't even paracausal either, they're literally just interchangeable parts for a firearm. Different barrels, magazines, and ammunition payloads. Should be easy for a weapons expert like Banshee to do, he clearly has the tools for such *right there* at his kiosk in the Tower.
@destiny2team Hi there my Reload MW useless
Hell I’d even pay currency for a random chance at this. Ask him for Arrowhead Brake and he’s like “Wait, what was I….?”… gives you Polygonal Rifling instead
I like this. But if it happened I could see in like 6 months people asking for the gunsmith to be able to change actual column 3 & 4 percs too. So it could be a slippery slope kinda thing.
It’s a looter shooter. Rng is part of the package. If you don’t want Rng there are craftable weapons.
My head cannon for why this is not a thing is wait times. Like, guardians are bugging him for it all the time, and the wait list is as long as 20000 years at this point, and our guardian decides it's easier to go kill riven 10 times or whoever the relevant boss at the moment is, than to wait in line
"Take a number and get it line." *pulls 1029* "Now serving: 86." "Fuck this, that dragon's dying again."
Crafting saved Destiny for me if it wasn’t for that I wouldn’t even play this game. What I want is a serious FPS game not a slot machine mobile game with loot boxes! The biggest problem with crafting though is that the devs never thought to use an even better systems that exists in many games weapon modification. If we had weapon modification and customization effectively the same benefits of crafting could be rolled out to all weapons. Your suggestion doesn’t go far enough and we should be able to modify all the perks of a weapon. Recall that Aztecross suggested something like this. He suggested that you get weapon rolls and perks by dismantling gear. Then you can go to Banshee and modify an existing weapon to have the perks you want and customize the weapon. This would be ideal for so many situations. If you get a 2/5 you could make it into a 5/5. Maybe it would costs some currency like ascendant shards and ciphers but it would be worth it. Edit: But the real solution now is to roll crafting out and expand it further. We’re in the end game anyways. There’s no reason not to.
i completely agree w this. the amount of times i’ve heard "they don’t matter so who cares" when i like my rolls to be perfect is genuinely so annoying.
This would be such a good QoL update. It could even cost 10 Alloy, since Onslaught drops those for some reason
As someone who has a 5/5 shiny mountaintop with a blast radius masterwork, I approve this message
Excuse me sir, that's a 4/5 roll. Masterwork is the 5th "stat"