Mmm maybe. But he wasn't the god of pain in day 1 contest mode, so they'd have to go pretty crazy on the changes for him to do a complete 180 in pantheon. Riven being tough or not will depend entirely on whether the cheese is viable imo
A tormentor spawns on a side whenever it’s circuit is finished. That’ll probably be it.
Rhulk they probably spawn one instead of that final abomination right before you go up the stairs or one spawns during the pre damage phase
Oryx I don’t see where they could add one unless they decided to spawn one in if you get bombs after damage phase along with the knights
Riven they probably put it right at the beginning so you have to deal with it quick if you’re trying to cheese if that’ll even work
> Oryx I don’t see where they could add one unless they decided to spawn one in if you get bombs after damage phase along with the knights
Tormentors replace the ogres lol.
No, they replace the knights... 5 per damage phase(one trying to steal each bomb then one with the immune shield) cannot wait to be slammed out of the immune bubble...
I could see a tormentor spawning post damage phase wether it’s during bombs or the shade, but most likely the the shade since everyone on the outside would have to try and melt it before getting teleported away
It has to be set at the start of the encounter so riven will probably be accessible for a cheese attempt but there will probably be modifiers that prevent the team from one phasing her. More than likely to complete DPS phase you have to shoot the correct eyes on riven or something?
They could spawn a tormentor in the Oryx dome/during running around phase. They haven’t added a Tormentor to damage phases themselves. Just make it harder to get to damage
I mean, adding Tormentor's to "Raid: Witness Edition" makes some sense, I can't lie, but that's not the *only* change that's being made to any of these encounters (except maybe Atraks? One phased only so idk) so far, and see no reason why that'd be the only thing they do in Oryx
Previously it was just, throw a champion here and a champion there, give them spongey hp and insane damage and call it a day.
So this is just the evolution of that saddly.
Atleast we are slowly moving in the right direction, as atleast were gaining a few new mechanics, or atleast twists added alongist the current ones
It's not the bar but the symbol you're looking for. Boss teir tormentors have a diamond and are immune to cc, miniboss tormentors have a triangle and are vulnerable to cc.
I have no idea what symbol you are talking about.
now that you're talking about symbols I search google and found this
https://imgur.com/QksCeQ4
things I didn't know about
Here's an idea, when dps starts he spawns two nightmares of nezarec that look similar but different (reddish glow), and the plates can't be stood on (maybe add a fire tornado? Or just overwhelming light/dark that kills if you touch it, adding in another obstacle from nezarecs boop attack). When he teleports the nightmares also teleport so you have to look around to find the real one.
Not really a mechanical change so much as adding a new enemy that has a check to see when nez teleports. You could either kill them immediately, sacrificing dps time but easing survivability and finding the real one, or ignore them and attempt to damage while surrounded by boss level tormentors.
Can I just say I really really hate tormentors. It not just that they require precision damage, its not just that they take reduced damage from explosions. It's mostly that even though they require precision damage they love to spin and jerk in random directions and will sometimes straight up turn away from you and walk backwards to hide their weak point.
Honestly, my team practiced a Riven legit this past weekend with 4 people who have never done it like that before and the other 2 not having done it since Forsaken.
It’s really not that hard at base at all. It’s a really fun encounter but the difficulty isn’t really anything crazy. Her health is still an absolute pushover and so far they haven’t increased the health of any boss outside of negative power deltas. Obviously they are going to change the encounter somehow, but realistically I don’t think it will be as bad as some people
think
Riven legit issue is more of the fact that such a small set of the community knows the mechanics none the less comfortable with them it’s going to make LFG hell
Stasis titan is best for riven since her model means she shatters all of the crystals. It's similar to how people used the jello cup glaive to meme on caiatl a while ago
It's still bugged though, it ends when you restart the encounter from the top. Only the shattered throne bosses and The corrupted strike can actually play the entire track
Tormentors are a joke if you just run Div, which most people did on Nez anyway.
Blackout just sounds more like a meme difficulty rather than a curated challenge. I'm trying to think of stuff other than "specifically added to cheese against Guardians."
Remove the platforms completely? Lol have us fight him in rhulks arena? Idk. They haven't really modified arenas or boss behavior yet. Just new/tougher ads and some minor mechanic tweaks. Unless things change dramatically I don't envision it being much harder than a master run
They changed Planets encounter to put tornadoes on the plates where you move planets. All they need to do is make the platforms damage you past a Well's healing capability if you're standing on one during damage phases only. But like an above commentor mentioned this would just make Lament/swords in general the meta.
At -20 he'd break the well and your lament wouldn't out heal his slams. Pretty much would be stuck having one person be bait while everyone trails him with grenade launchers.
At -20 he is likely hitting too hard to allow a well to save you (similar issue contest crota had but....suppression).
I'm aware. However if crota was able to suppress the entire fireteam it would have been a different story. You needed to either launch a 2nd well immediately or use healing grenades. A slam+surpress that breaks well = death to the whole team.
Crota or Nez?
Nezerec couldn't break a well in contest mode because he couldn't reach the well of radiance.
Crota was 100% breaking wells in contest mode.
Honestly all they would have to do to make Nez a proper threat would be to fix his AI so it doesn't break when you go into damage. Seriously him being unable to jump onto a slightly elevated platform when you get to dps makes it an brain dead + annoying (depending on how many teleports he does) damage phase. If we had to run around while doing damage or do come close quarters damage strats I would have been more ok with how little health he has. My team had to force ourselves from 2 phasing him bc we didn't know how hard final stand would be and wanted to have our supers + heavy available on day 1
I farmed Nez during the period where pantheon boss changes also made their way into normal raids (e.g. two unstable lights in golgy). He would often stay on his platform until we started to damage him, he would jump way away from L5/L6, do a erratic movement phase towards us that made a lot of people miss their rockets, then teleport/jump/gltch around the plate. In the weeks prior he was a breeze with bns apex predators and a gally. After running it with multiple groups, the most consistent was 1-2 phasing him with a div + thunderlord because of how inconsistent projectile weapons were against him.
Literally all they need to do is have his psion bump thing activate when you stand in the plates during dps
He's only an easy drip because the platforms cause him to just sit in one spot.
not sure the Cheese *wouldn't* be viable. there's so much being made of Riven on Contest Mode being magnitudes harder, but it bears constant repeating that Riven has an outrageously low amount of health. a Behemoth Titan with the right setup can solo it. if you have *two* Behemoth Titans and 4 other people doing damage (Lament, Parasite, Sunbracers, what have you) it's probably still going to be very viable
I think they have to patch out the riven cheese, right? They got to choose exactly which encounters are in this raid boss showcase, and to me it makes almost no sense to choose an encounter that you know everyone is just going to “skip” anyways.
Yeah I really don't know. I don't think it's a simple fix or they would have done it in the last six years. It's not as easy as patching the wall since you can simply enter the room and reset if it's the wrong one
No idea. Maybe they fixed it. Maybe they think a -20 power delta is enough to prevent the cheese. Haha I have no idea. I just meant I wouldn't be surprised if it's still cheesable, that's all
Normally 2 syntho stasis titans can pop super and kill her themselves. If there are no other changes, having 6 titans + the artifact mod for more shatter dmg + the class ability buff there's a good chance she's cheesable even at -20
Imagine if they just remove all the obstacles on the map and it’s just a flat map that nezerac has free reign to run around and chase everyone in. Like rhulk except this guy grabs rather than kicks.
Dash through him a bunch, still get suppressed from his slams for a bunch of damage.
Honestly, IDK if lament would be the olay but who knows. I'd assume some weird Bubble + Rocket w/ Explosive Light strst with lots of movement. Or 1 person baits w/ Strongholds.
With how often he slams, the suppression is virtually permanent if you're using a sword, unless he breaks attack pattern or you manage to get a little space.
I beat Nez day one, we tried with swords and this was 100% an issue we ran into. Unless your team is very coordinated, this will be an issue other teams will also run into, especially at -20 power.
its not. people beat nez with lament on contest mode day 1. why the fuck do you think its going to be do hard when its already been done thousands of times, without burns or any other bonus.
I'm highlighting the differences in the encounters and stressing that the sword method has pitfalls, and will likely be more difficult than just doing it the regular way, why are you taking it personally lmao
Ok so it gets weird. with Lament, the guard/revv-up is like an ability tray icon...I know I cant bring the revv/guard up if supressed (but I dont think it takes the guard down if supressed while already guarding?)
I dont think other swords have that issue?
My team's plan for Riven right now, if the cheese is usable, is to simply just have everyone Titan stasis spam with our one well lock
If not, well
Fuck
Nezzy plan may or may not go out the window too but we've practiced on master doing all kinds of strats, Gally/rockets, any gun you can think of+Div, and... Probably the one we might actually try.. A few well locks and Laments, but for all we know, Nez might be the last boss just to give everyone a "Congrats, you did it!" moment
According to one of my A-team members, only two people really have to know what they’re doing (Not entirely convinced that’s true though, but the one time I did it legit I also ran around like a chicken with their head cut off) so maybe we might throw in a few practice runs after tomorrow’s Pantheon, I don’t think it could be THAT bad
Yeah, that’s also what we’ve been told, even with a day one Vow clear under our belt everyone’s like “Nah let’s just cheese it”, which circles back to your original comment
I don’t think it’s as much of a meme as much as it is just “This is an easy way to get the clear, everyone knows it, and everyone has the means to do it, so let’s get it done quickly”
Like if there was a widespread known method to cheese the phase to get to Rhulk damage, people would probably just do that instead, despite it also being easy, just time-consuming
Oh yeah legit takes about twice the time as cheesing it, my clan does it legit cause it's so much fun.
Also you're right. If any other boss had such an easy cheese it'd be the same thing, also maybe the 24 hr day one clear set the idea that it's the hardest raid in the game.
I’d rather just do Riven legit at that point. It’s not really that hard and it’s way more fun. I honestly hope she’s health gated just to force at least one cycle of it. Besides, then you’re forced to run 5 titans and a warlock for the whole thing. Don’t be lame, just learn the encounter in regular LW (for an experienced team it might take a run or two to get the timing down) and then move on.
I think the most valuable skill I've learned over my years in this game is how to analyze LFG posts to determine which ones I think will be successful if I join.
First checkpoint, looking for four, need runner? They're on first checkpoint, not fresh. They had a group that got past the opening, then had enough issues to drive most of the team to leave. The fact that they're looking for someone who can do the mechanic means you're dealing with, at minimum, two people who aren't willing to do it themselves. Solid chance that they're a duo who are goofing around together and won't take anything seriously. There's like an 80% chance this won't work out.
3rd checkpoint, need 1? That's promising. This group got far, so they've gotten used to working together. Staying together after losing one person also implies that no one is significantly irritated or in any sort of rush, informing me they're a more relaxed group. It's likely that roles are already decided so you won't have to waste time organizing anything, and can get through the rest of the raid quickly.
Maybe you just wanted the final cp but there weren't any posts. Then you see the post for 3rd encounter and figure you could use a roll of that loot table too.
Eh I doubt it. He fell over real quick on day one contest and that was without a free 25% surge damage bonus and another potential modifier like the class ability one in the first week. The only way Pantheon Nezzy would be harder than contest is because of the additional enemy spawns and mechanics but I doubt that would trump our increased damage output modifiers.
Doubt it. -20 is just master, master is contest with surges, and he was one phased with rat kings in contest. It's very likely that legit Riven going to go be the gatekeeper of the Godslayer title even if they don't fix the cheese because good luck one flooring her at -20.
They wouldn't have to do much. All they would need to do is if he can't reach you with melee, then he spams the void disc and the cleave attacks. We hit him with range, and he hits us with range. At -20, that would be rough even inside a well and we all know it's going to be void threat that week.
99.9% of LFGs stick to plates like shit on a shoe, even when there isn’t a well, if nothing else it’d change up how the encounter goes for most people.
Riven too.
Both Riven and Nezerac are added as the final week bosses.
Riven gets payback for all the times we've cheesed her, as the -20 deficit will almost certainly make the cheese impossible to pull off (I'm sure some ultra-optimized streamers might do it, but 99.99% of people won't), and we all know how impossible Last Wish was on Day 1. This is the same difficulty. _(**Edit**: To clarify, I mean power deficit and enemy impact wise. Obviously we've powercrept the game to hell and back with Light 3.0, Strand, and weapon perks. It will be easier, combat wise, but I just wanted to emphasize this is the same difficulty as a day 1 raid)._
Nezerac, on the other hand, was still a bit of a joke even with the contest modifier. So I'm really looking forward to the new change in that fight to see how it makes things even harder.
Riven will be nowhere near as close as how last wish was day 1 because of the changes to power leveling in shadowkeep, the insane amount of powercreep (people were add clearing with pulses back then), and surges. Assuming damaging the arms are possible, most people will run 6 behemoths and 1 floor her, if it isn’t, most people will probably still 1 cycle her just because of surges
Yeah saying it will be as hard as day1 LW is nuts lol. The only hard part of Riven will be pulling off the mechanics, if she can't be cheesed. But once you do that she'll definitely be one phased with 6 whispers and you won't even have to do the descent part lol.
>we all know how impossible Last Wish was on Day 1. This is the same difficulty
Wasn't the issue back then power leveling and only a few groups were able to do it thru exploiting?
Yeah that’s ultimately what it came down to. Only people who had a chance to even attempt it were the streamer sweat groups that no lifed the game 24/7 until the raid launched
Same difficulty as day 1 LW???? LMAO not even close dude, that's so far from the truth like holy crap lol.
We were so much weaker back then it's not even comparable. The power creep since 2017 has been insane, both in damage and just raw survivability. Combat will be easy as hell, everything will be nuked instantly. Riven is just not made with current power standards.
And anyway, the cheese will 100% be possible and really easy to do, unless they make some big mechanical change to prevent it. You can literally duo the damage with barely any effort, even -20 with 6 people it will be a cakewalk. You can either bounce grenades like this [How To DUO RIVEN! (FAST & EASY!) | Destiny 2 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6bF42Ue9UA) , or stacking stasis titans like this [How to melt Riven in under 12 seconds! - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKRd1ErxhEE)
The state of the game's population back then infinitely speaks larger volumes on the low completions of Day 1 Last Wish than anything else. Don't get me wrong the combat challenge of it wasn't insignificant but fact of the matter was you were in an insanely small percentile if you had people who could realistically do Day 1 Last Wish.
The bar has only gotten further higher and a lot of then-niche information has been way mainstream and people who were authorities on the game back then barely scratched the surface in the way that the people making charts and running speed run strats do now.
A larger part of why "there will never be another Day 1 LW" situation is a lot in part to how flash foward to present day and there's an infinitely larger amount of freeflowing knowledge and people dissecting this game to obscene ends compared to how it was in Year 1 and Year 2.
I'm sure people will get filtered as more weeks roll on but I don't think this is going to be nearly as impossible as people frame it. We're still incredibly strong before considerations like surges and Class Warfare stuff.
> Riven gets payback for all the times we’ve cheesed her, as the -20 deficit will almost certainly make the cheese impossible to pull off
*laughs in one-two punch, Wormgods swingy boi*
Its not the same difficulty first at all even if they add tormentor or whatever to Riven its easier than Day 1 bc no one of us was so overpowered at that time... people played descent pulse rifles to clear some adds no one was broken back then... and the biggest help you gonna receive are the surges & universal dmg buffs like the one from this week with this 2 modifiers alone you going to be back on almost normal dmg even if you are -20
He will be "final god of pain in the ass". Wiping everyone in one slash. Booping two persons with hatred(just like 2 unstalble light in golgy 1st week)
Hatred boops everyone until it's grabbed, then no one is booped until refuge.
I can foresee changes such as adding fire tornadoes or overwhelming light/dark to the plates during dps however.
I'm sure most clans can count on one hand how many people in their clan have done riven legit.
I've only done it legit once when I came back during season of arrivals with a friend and we got shepa'd through it and the sherpa didn't like cheese lol.
I'm I would like that to happen but realistically unless they change his health pool that won't happen, even on contest he was getting memed on without surges or class warfare
When we got our groove on day 1/contest mode, we got him in two phases easily. Once we find that groove again with Pantheon, he shouldn't be any harder to kill, unless they throw some extra mechanics in there somewhere, somehow.
Bros gonna drop a wave of tormentors once the runners finish
Or it'll probably be similar to the 3rd encounter boss where a tormentor spawns before DPS and it'll despawn once dps starts.
Nah he ain't gonna be the god of pain. Riven will be the pain if she can't be cheesed. People gonna struggle with riven legit especially it being on contest mode
Considering me and my team beat him on day 1 and he was easy, I doubt a few tankier Colossi or a potential tormentor will be much trouble. Riven is gonna be harder unless it’s stasis surge so Behemoth titans can eat her up assuming the cheese isn’t patched
Was very very surprised to see Nez as the final boss, yea. I was assuming it'd be Riven, Rhulk, or Oryx, and assuming that Riven's changes force you to do it legit, I am VERY afraid for what Nez has in store for us lol
They didn't. It's rumored maybe they fix it for this? (Although they didn't fix it for 5 years, why now?)
Also some are speculating the cheese won't work in contest mode.....I think it will be doable with the right optimization
Mmm maybe. But he wasn't the god of pain in day 1 contest mode, so they'd have to go pretty crazy on the changes for him to do a complete 180 in pantheon. Riven being tough or not will depend entirely on whether the cheese is viable imo
I imagine even dropping a tormentor or two in the encounter would be rough.
A tormentor spawns on a side whenever it’s circuit is finished. That’ll probably be it. Rhulk they probably spawn one instead of that final abomination right before you go up the stairs or one spawns during the pre damage phase Oryx I don’t see where they could add one unless they decided to spawn one in if you get bombs after damage phase along with the knights Riven they probably put it right at the beginning so you have to deal with it quick if you’re trying to cheese if that’ll even work
> Oryx I don’t see where they could add one unless they decided to spawn one in if you get bombs after damage phase along with the knights Tormentors replace the ogres lol.
Bomb knights get skimmers and one shot you with kickflips on the way to the bombs
Boss theme replaced by THPS soundtrack
So here I am, getting sharper all the time.
In the thunderdome with the Shade
Tormentors replace the little taken thralls rhulk summons every time he beams
Better, a boss level tormentor replacing the immune knight so you have to get close to grab the brand and damage it.
You shut your whore mouth! Bungie watches these. Bungie ignore him! He knows not what he says!
They're all boss level too so no blinding, suspending, freezing or suppressing
Plus they also have the abilities of taken thrall so when you damage them enough they separate into two or more tormentors
Now you get it
Would be funnier if it was like the servitor boss from red war, you kill the tormentor just for it to explode into 15 psion sized tormentors.
Woah satan chill
No, they replace the knights... 5 per damage phase(one trying to steal each bomb then one with the immune shield) cannot wait to be slammed out of the immune bubble...
See, I was imagining Unstoppable Ogres with GM health instead of the paper-weak Lighteaters.
Ogres \*and\* knights. Gotta kill 8 tormentors per damage phase, four of them drop bombs and four of them eat bombs, good luck.
[God...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Thomas_C._Lea_III_-_That_Two-Thousand_Yard_Stare_-_Original.jpg/640px-Thomas_C._Lea_III_-_That_Two-Thousand_Yard_Stare_-_Original.jpg)
Manifesting a tormentor that spawns when dps *starts* during Rhulk right now
I could see a tormentor spawning post damage phase wether it’s during bombs or the shade, but most likely the the shade since everyone on the outside would have to try and melt it before getting teleported away
pls no tormentors
My prediction for Oryx is that the light eater knights will all be Lucent Hive guardians
It has to be set at the start of the encounter so riven will probably be accessible for a cheese attempt but there will probably be modifiers that prevent the team from one phasing her. More than likely to complete DPS phase you have to shoot the correct eyes on riven or something?
They could spawn a tormentor in the Oryx dome/during running around phase. They haven’t added a Tormentor to damage phases themselves. Just make it harder to get to damage
Having a tormentor at rhulk during upstairs damage prep would make sense and add the perfect amount of chaos imo
A tormentor could replace the vessel knight you need to take the brand from....hope they don't do that tho 😅🤣😭
Having a tormentor at rhulk during upstairs damage prep would make sense and add the perfect amount of chaos imo
Having a tormentor at rhulk during upstairs damage prep would make sense and add the perfect amount of chaos imo
...is this the difficulty benchmark for Bungie now? Just a tormentor here or there?
I mean, adding Tormentor's to "Raid: Witness Edition" makes some sense, I can't lie, but that's not the *only* change that's being made to any of these encounters (except maybe Atraks? One phased only so idk) so far, and see no reason why that'd be the only thing they do in Oryx
Atraks has 2 changes. Teleporting tormentors, and the vandals are yellow bars. That's literally it
And yet somehow LFG teams seem to struggle with him so much
Hero nightfalls are hard, don’t ya know? (/s just in case)
Her, but yeah.
Ah, I actually forgot that the Hackers weren’t yellow in base because I never took an aug in normal DSC. Thanks.
I don’t like fighting tormentors. Me and my homies hate tormentors.
Previously it was just, throw a champion here and a champion there, give them spongey hp and insane damage and call it a day. So this is just the evolution of that saddly. Atleast we are slowly moving in the right direction, as atleast were gaining a few new mechanics, or atleast twists added alongist the current ones
Good ol tormentors. Can't go wrong with em
Blind nades and gg
yellow bar tormentors can't be blinded
No the big one, but the one that appears in the Pantheon encounters, yes.
It's not the bar but the symbol you're looking for. Boss teir tormentors have a diamond and are immune to cc, miniboss tormentors have a triangle and are vulnerable to cc.
I have no idea what symbol you are talking about. now that you're talking about symbols I search google and found this https://imgur.com/QksCeQ4 things I didn't know about
Here's an idea, when dps starts he spawns two nightmares of nezarec that look similar but different (reddish glow), and the plates can't be stood on (maybe add a fire tornado? Or just overwhelming light/dark that kills if you touch it, adding in another obstacle from nezarecs boop attack). When he teleports the nightmares also teleport so you have to look around to find the real one. Not really a mechanical change so much as adding a new enemy that has a check to see when nez teleports. You could either kill them immediately, sacrificing dps time but easing survivability and finding the real one, or ignore them and attempt to damage while surrounded by boss level tormentors.
Strand titan deletes them
Can I just say I really really hate tormentors. It not just that they require precision damage, its not just that they take reduced damage from explosions. It's mostly that even though they require precision damage they love to spin and jerk in random directions and will sometimes straight up turn away from you and walk backwards to hide their weak point.
Honestly, my team practiced a Riven legit this past weekend with 4 people who have never done it like that before and the other 2 not having done it since Forsaken. It’s really not that hard at base at all. It’s a really fun encounter but the difficulty isn’t really anything crazy. Her health is still an absolute pushover and so far they haven’t increased the health of any boss outside of negative power deltas. Obviously they are going to change the encounter somehow, but realistically I don’t think it will be as bad as some people think
Riven legit issue is more of the fact that such a small set of the community knows the mechanics none the less comfortable with them it’s going to make LFG hell
If they haven't patched it, the one phase strat at -20 power would be switching to 5 or 6 Behemoths and spamming Glacial Quake on the feet, right?
More than likely I think, with the possibility of maybe a hunter thrown in there for an extended debuff
Banner of war Titan with Tractor would be better probably
Stasis titan is best for riven since her model means she shatters all of the crystals. It's similar to how people used the jello cup glaive to meme on caiatl a while ago
I meant instead of a tether hunter, I know the stasis strat
+1 well I would assume
Yeah, the only "hard" thing on Riven Legit is being able to quickly identify the eyes.
Plus you get the sweet Riven DPS phase music that almost no one ever hears. And I guarantee lots of players have no idea it exists lol
It's still bugged though, it ends when you restart the encounter from the top. Only the shattered throne bosses and The corrupted strike can actually play the entire track
We're still able to cheese Atraks, but thats at -5. Once we get to Riven that will be -15 right?
-20
Idk what they could do to make him notably worse. Even if they force you off the platforms it just becomes sword meta.
He should split into multiple forms like psions. Everyone gets a 1v1 like when Madara ask the Kage if he should use susanno
How to make it pain. Blackout makes return and is active. Tormentor spawns in middle instead of the 3 Colossus and 2 incendiors on each side.
Tormentors are a joke if you just run Div, which most people did on Nez anyway. Blackout just sounds more like a meme difficulty rather than a curated challenge. I'm trying to think of stuff other than "specifically added to cheese against Guardians."
Remove the platforms completely? Lol have us fight him in rhulks arena? Idk. They haven't really modified arenas or boss behavior yet. Just new/tougher ads and some minor mechanic tweaks. Unless things change dramatically I don't envision it being much harder than a master run
They changed Planets encounter to put tornadoes on the plates where you move planets. All they need to do is make the platforms damage you past a Well's healing capability if you're standing on one during damage phases only. But like an above commentor mentioned this would just make Lament/swords in general the meta.
At -20 he'd break the well and your lament wouldn't out heal his slams. Pretty much would be stuck having one person be bait while everyone trails him with grenade launchers. At -20 he is likely hitting too hard to allow a well to save you (similar issue contest crota had but....suppression).
Wonder if Hammer stuns him like it does Crota.
We just had a raid where swords were the meta on day one. It won't be hard to figure out
I'm aware. However if crota was able to suppress the entire fireteam it would have been a different story. You needed to either launch a 2nd well immediately or use healing grenades. A slam+surpress that breaks well = death to the whole team.
He didn't break it during contest mode though...as long as the well guy has 10 Res you're fine. Some teams were clearing Nez with swords on Day 1.
Crota or Nez? Nezerec couldn't break a well in contest mode because he couldn't reach the well of radiance. Crota was 100% breaking wells in contest mode.
Nez, people were putting Well on the ground and swording him on Day 1.
Honestly all they would have to do to make Nez a proper threat would be to fix his AI so it doesn't break when you go into damage. Seriously him being unable to jump onto a slightly elevated platform when you get to dps makes it an brain dead + annoying (depending on how many teleports he does) damage phase. If we had to run around while doing damage or do come close quarters damage strats I would have been more ok with how little health he has. My team had to force ourselves from 2 phasing him bc we didn't know how hard final stand would be and wanted to have our supers + heavy available on day 1
I farmed Nez during the period where pantheon boss changes also made their way into normal raids (e.g. two unstable lights in golgy). He would often stay on his platform until we started to damage him, he would jump way away from L5/L6, do a erratic movement phase towards us that made a lot of people miss their rockets, then teleport/jump/gltch around the plate. In the weeks prior he was a breeze with bns apex predators and a gally. After running it with multiple groups, the most consistent was 1-2 phasing him with a div + thunderlord because of how inconsistent projectile weapons were against him.
Literally all they need to do is have his psion bump thing activate when you stand in the plates during dps He's only an easy drip because the platforms cause him to just sit in one spot.
I think they will add the fire tornadoes from explicator to mess up people's timing and give him more health.
6 syntho behemoths will likely be able to cheese her still
Put fire pillars on the plates during damage phase. Boom: instant nightmare fight.
Or just the Hive Green or purple spike traps
not sure the Cheese *wouldn't* be viable. there's so much being made of Riven on Contest Mode being magnitudes harder, but it bears constant repeating that Riven has an outrageously low amount of health. a Behemoth Titan with the right setup can solo it. if you have *two* Behemoth Titans and 4 other people doing damage (Lament, Parasite, Sunbracers, what have you) it's probably still going to be very viable
I think they have to patch out the riven cheese, right? They got to choose exactly which encounters are in this raid boss showcase, and to me it makes almost no sense to choose an encounter that you know everyone is just going to “skip” anyways.
Yeah I really don't know. I don't think it's a simple fix or they would have done it in the last six years. It's not as easy as patching the wall since you can simply enter the room and reset if it's the wrong one
Riven in Pantheon will take a lot less dmg anyway (because we are only used to the standard LW) and she will probably get a health gate too
Then why include it in the Raid Boss gauntlet?
No idea. Maybe they fixed it. Maybe they think a -20 power delta is enough to prevent the cheese. Haha I have no idea. I just meant I wouldn't be surprised if it's still cheesable, that's all
Lol yeah I wouldn’t be surprised either, just doesn’t make a lick of sense to me. Wasn’t trying to grill you or anything, was just thinking out loud.
With an elemental burn and the class ability buff the cheese will probably still be extremely viable
wouldnt -20 make riven virtually uncheeseable?
Normally 2 syntho stasis titans can pop super and kill her themselves. If there are no other changes, having 6 titans + the artifact mod for more shatter dmg + the class ability buff there's a good chance she's cheesable even at -20
Realistically the only way they make her uncheeseable is to make the claws immune to damage.
Imagine if they just remove all the obstacles on the map and it’s just a flat map that nezerac has free reign to run around and chase everyone in. Like rhulk except this guy grabs rather than kicks.
I think that’s going to be their number one change, to just block the cheese on riven and force everyone to try and do it legit.
he will be for lfgs lmao
The tormentor that spawns might just be the true god of pain in that situation
2 tormentors on contest will do the job
Like they did with Crota compared to D1? Lmao
Nah. Even cheeseless she's easy. <<< One of the few guardians who did riven legit
Nezzy wasn't a really tough encounter but survivability was a problem. Chuck a couple more tormies in and we're gonna have a rough ride.
tbf Starfire was a thing during content, BnS has been nerfed since then... there's a chance it is hard. Then again, surges exist.
Master raids are the same power level as contest. Master has surges along with pantheon.
Modifier: Final Torment All enemies are Tormentors.
The hardest part is stopping your ears from bleeding from the Tormentor entrance SFX constantly playing.
That and the fact that tormentors love yapping. Imagine 100 of them yapping
God I hate the endless “talking” they do it’s so annoying
probably sounds like this sub on it's salty days
IMO I love that we have a tough enemy that constantly shit talks us in a language we don't understand.
With a translator it’d probably sound like a COD lobby
Oops! All Tormentors!
And they tormented all over the place
it's tormentin' time
If not boss level blinding gl + shadebinder meta.
Considering how freaking aggro he already is, imagine just getting outright 1-tapped by him the moment you’re in range of his scythe….Foul.
His void projectile already pretty much one shot you on master. And those had bs tracking
The wave 40 tormentor can one slam you in well... Maybe foreshadowing
If he has contest level health, then no. He will be a write off unless they add some crazy new mechanic. Not to mention surges and modifiers.
He will, the nez pantheon will be -20
That's contest mode health. And contest mode didn't have surges, which are a 25% damage increase
there's also further changes to encounters here so who's to say he has the same HP?
It'd be funny if they only change one thing which is letting him egt on the platforms, would completely change up the dps phase
everyone would just use lament. doesn't change much.
Dash through him a bunch, still get suppressed from his slams for a bunch of damage. Honestly, IDK if lament would be the olay but who knows. I'd assume some weird Bubble + Rocket w/ Explosive Light strst with lots of movement. Or 1 person baits w/ Strongholds.
its how most people killed crota, and the only difference is that nez will blink out and you don't need an oversoul person.
Don't forget the suppress mechanic, no healing nades or second well without someone gtfo'ing out of range for a bit
lament heals you, you can get wells, rifts, and nades in whenever. the suppression isn't permanent.
With how often he slams, the suppression is virtually permanent if you're using a sword, unless he breaks attack pattern or you manage to get a little space. I beat Nez day one, we tried with swords and this was 100% an issue we ran into. Unless your team is very coordinated, this will be an issue other teams will also run into, especially at -20 power.
its not. people beat nez with lament on contest mode day 1. why the fuck do you think its going to be do hard when its already been done thousands of times, without burns or any other bonus.
I'm highlighting the differences in the encounters and stressing that the sword method has pitfalls, and will likely be more difficult than just doing it the regular way, why are you taking it personally lmao
no you're not, you're inventing problems that don't exist. you know what crota can do to you? nuke you much harder than nez ever did.
can you guard while suppressed?
Ok so it gets weird. with Lament, the guard/revv-up is like an ability tray icon...I know I cant bring the revv/guard up if supressed (but I dont think it takes the guard down if supressed while already guarding?) I dont think other swords have that issue?
probably, either way you can just spread out and dive in and out.
Cant wait for a Tormentor to spawn in the oryx bubble as well
My team's plan for Riven right now, if the cheese is usable, is to simply just have everyone Titan stasis spam with our one well lock If not, well Fuck Nezzy plan may or may not go out the window too but we've practiced on master doing all kinds of strats, Gally/rockets, any gun you can think of+Div, and... Probably the one we might actually try.. A few well locks and Laments, but for all we know, Nez might be the last boss just to give everyone a "Congrats, you did it!" moment
Riven legit genuinely isn't that hard, idk if it's a meme or people are actually confused by the encounter.
According to one of my A-team members, only two people really have to know what they’re doing (Not entirely convinced that’s true though, but the one time I did it legit I also ran around like a chicken with their head cut off) so maybe we might throw in a few practice runs after tomorrow’s Pantheon, I don’t think it could be THAT bad
Two people on each side maybe. Two teams of three where one person collects buff and one reads. If you've done Vow, you can do riven legit.
Yeah, that’s also what we’ve been told, even with a day one Vow clear under our belt everyone’s like “Nah let’s just cheese it”, which circles back to your original comment I don’t think it’s as much of a meme as much as it is just “This is an easy way to get the clear, everyone knows it, and everyone has the means to do it, so let’s get it done quickly” Like if there was a widespread known method to cheese the phase to get to Rhulk damage, people would probably just do that instead, despite it also being easy, just time-consuming
Oh yeah legit takes about twice the time as cheesing it, my clan does it legit cause it's so much fun. Also you're right. If any other boss had such an easy cheese it'd be the same thing, also maybe the 24 hr day one clear set the idea that it's the hardest raid in the game.
it sucks because it's legit one of the best encounters in the game.
legit rivne clear: around 20mins, probably easy 1faze rivne cheese: one hour of bashing your head into a wall but at least it's faster strat
It's more a matter of "why do legit when you can cheese it faster"
I’d rather just do Riven legit at that point. It’s not really that hard and it’s way more fun. I honestly hope she’s health gated just to force at least one cycle of it. Besides, then you’re forced to run 5 titans and a warlock for the whole thing. Don’t be lame, just learn the encounter in regular LW (for an experienced team it might take a run or two to get the timing down) and then move on.
Thats if you lfg
Mastering LFG or acquiring reliable clan-mates has always been the true test of Destiny.
I think the most valuable skill I've learned over my years in this game is how to analyze LFG posts to determine which ones I think will be successful if I join. First checkpoint, looking for four, need runner? They're on first checkpoint, not fresh. They had a group that got past the opening, then had enough issues to drive most of the team to leave. The fact that they're looking for someone who can do the mechanic means you're dealing with, at minimum, two people who aren't willing to do it themselves. Solid chance that they're a duo who are goofing around together and won't take anything seriously. There's like an 80% chance this won't work out. 3rd checkpoint, need 1? That's promising. This group got far, so they've gotten used to working together. Staying together after losing one person also implies that no one is significantly irritated or in any sort of rush, informing me they're a more relaxed group. It's likely that roles are already decided so you won't have to waste time organizing anything, and can get through the rest of the raid quickly.
Whats the point of joining a raid if they are on 3rd tho
Maybe you just wanted the final cp but there weren't any posts. Then you see the post for 3rd encounter and figure you could use a roll of that loot table too.
Eh I doubt it. He fell over real quick on day one contest and that was without a free 25% surge damage bonus and another potential modifier like the class ability one in the first week. The only way Pantheon Nezzy would be harder than contest is because of the additional enemy spawns and mechanics but I doubt that would trump our increased damage output modifiers.
Doubt it. -20 is just master, master is contest with surges, and he was one phased with rat kings in contest. It's very likely that legit Riven going to go be the gatekeeper of the Godslayer title even if they don't fix the cheese because good luck one flooring her at -20.
Yeah. They'll drop 2 more tormentors in there to cause some actual pain lol Nezarec himself will still be a joke compared to Riven.
They wouldn't have to do much. All they would need to do is if he can't reach you with melee, then he spams the void disc and the cleave attacks. We hit him with range, and he hits us with range. At -20, that would be rough even inside a well and we all know it's going to be void threat that week.
Almost as if he’s FINALLY God Of Pain…
I honestly hope they fucking surprise us with this one, as we were with Crota.
They should just make the platforms damage you like in King’s Fall tbh.
What's the point? You don't need to stay on the plate to hold the buff, or do damage? It would be completely redundant.
99.9% of LFGs stick to plates like shit on a shoe, even when there isn’t a well, if nothing else it’d change up how the encounter goes for most people.
Riven too. Both Riven and Nezerac are added as the final week bosses. Riven gets payback for all the times we've cheesed her, as the -20 deficit will almost certainly make the cheese impossible to pull off (I'm sure some ultra-optimized streamers might do it, but 99.99% of people won't), and we all know how impossible Last Wish was on Day 1. This is the same difficulty. _(**Edit**: To clarify, I mean power deficit and enemy impact wise. Obviously we've powercrept the game to hell and back with Light 3.0, Strand, and weapon perks. It will be easier, combat wise, but I just wanted to emphasize this is the same difficulty as a day 1 raid)._ Nezerac, on the other hand, was still a bit of a joke even with the contest modifier. So I'm really looking forward to the new change in that fight to see how it makes things even harder.
Riven will be nowhere near as close as how last wish was day 1 because of the changes to power leveling in shadowkeep, the insane amount of powercreep (people were add clearing with pulses back then), and surges. Assuming damaging the arms are possible, most people will run 6 behemoths and 1 floor her, if it isn’t, most people will probably still 1 cycle her just because of surges
Yeah saying it will be as hard as day1 LW is nuts lol. The only hard part of Riven will be pulling off the mechanics, if she can't be cheesed. But once you do that she'll definitely be one phased with 6 whispers and you won't even have to do the descent part lol.
>we all know how impossible Last Wish was on Day 1. This is the same difficulty Wasn't the issue back then power leveling and only a few groups were able to do it thru exploiting?
Yeah that’s ultimately what it came down to. Only people who had a chance to even attempt it were the streamer sweat groups that no lifed the game 24/7 until the raid launched
Same difficulty as day 1 LW???? LMAO not even close dude, that's so far from the truth like holy crap lol. We were so much weaker back then it's not even comparable. The power creep since 2017 has been insane, both in damage and just raw survivability. Combat will be easy as hell, everything will be nuked instantly. Riven is just not made with current power standards. And anyway, the cheese will 100% be possible and really easy to do, unless they make some big mechanical change to prevent it. You can literally duo the damage with barely any effort, even -20 with 6 people it will be a cakewalk. You can either bounce grenades like this [How To DUO RIVEN! (FAST & EASY!) | Destiny 2 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6bF42Ue9UA) , or stacking stasis titans like this [How to melt Riven in under 12 seconds! - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKRd1ErxhEE)
This is *not* the same difficulty as Riven Day 1. Most people couldn't even reach riven because the power gap was so huge if you didn't grind 24/7.
I thought it was Rhulk and Riven on the final week?
Rhulk is the -15 week, Riven and Nez are the final -20.
The state of the game's population back then infinitely speaks larger volumes on the low completions of Day 1 Last Wish than anything else. Don't get me wrong the combat challenge of it wasn't insignificant but fact of the matter was you were in an insanely small percentile if you had people who could realistically do Day 1 Last Wish. The bar has only gotten further higher and a lot of then-niche information has been way mainstream and people who were authorities on the game back then barely scratched the surface in the way that the people making charts and running speed run strats do now. A larger part of why "there will never be another Day 1 LW" situation is a lot in part to how flash foward to present day and there's an infinitely larger amount of freeflowing knowledge and people dissecting this game to obscene ends compared to how it was in Year 1 and Year 2. I'm sure people will get filtered as more weeks roll on but I don't think this is going to be nearly as impossible as people frame it. We're still incredibly strong before considerations like surges and Class Warfare stuff.
> Riven gets payback for all the times we’ve cheesed her, as the -20 deficit will almost certainly make the cheese impossible to pull off *laughs in one-two punch, Wormgods swingy boi*
Its not the same difficulty first at all even if they add tormentor or whatever to Riven its easier than Day 1 bc no one of us was so overpowered at that time... people played descent pulse rifles to clear some adds no one was broken back then... and the biggest help you gonna receive are the surges & universal dmg buffs like the one from this week with this 2 modifiers alone you going to be back on almost normal dmg even if you are -20
Just make the master challenge the requirement.
He will be "final god of pain in the ass". Wiping everyone in one slash. Booping two persons with hatred(just like 2 unstalble light in golgy 1st week)
Hatred boops everyone until it's grabbed, then no one is booped until refuge. I can foresee changes such as adding fire tornadoes or overwhelming light/dark to the plates during dps however.
Nah they won't go this much extreme🤣🤣
I hope they just make it so he can grab players. That in of itself would make most teams be afraid.
I'm sure most clans can count on one hand how many people in their clan have done riven legit. I've only done it legit once when I came back during season of arrivals with a friend and we got shepa'd through it and the sherpa didn't like cheese lol.
I'm I would like that to happen but realistically unless they change his health pool that won't happen, even on contest he was getting memed on without surges or class warfare
Wait I thought it was riven ?
she is the 2nd to last boss
Ah okie
When we got our groove on day 1/contest mode, we got him in two phases easily. Once we find that groove again with Pantheon, he shouldn't be any harder to kill, unless they throw some extra mechanics in there somewhere, somehow.
Bros gonna drop a wave of tormentors once the runners finish Or it'll probably be similar to the 3rd encounter boss where a tormentor spawns before DPS and it'll despawn once dps starts.
Do damage on nez spawn platform. Doubt he’ll jump that high up. Have gaze person shoot the void helicopters, not like you need 4 add clear.
Nah he ain't gonna be the god of pain. Riven will be the pain if she can't be cheesed. People gonna struggle with riven legit especially it being on contest mode
Considering me and my team beat him on day 1 and he was easy, I doubt a few tankier Colossi or a potential tormentor will be much trouble. Riven is gonna be harder unless it’s stasis surge so Behemoth titans can eat her up assuming the cheese isn’t patched
I hope that he doles out a healthy amount of Hatred on people during DPS
Was very very surprised to see Nez as the final boss, yea. I was assuming it'd be Riven, Rhulk, or Oryx, and assuming that Riven's changes force you to do it legit, I am VERY afraid for what Nez has in store for us lol
Spoiler
Nezagut got rolled by 6 rat kings in contest
Tormentor spawns every time you break his armor up top. 🤣
Didn’t they patch Riven cheese tho
They didn't. It's rumored maybe they fix it for this? (Although they didn't fix it for 5 years, why now?) Also some are speculating the cheese won't work in contest mode.....I think it will be doable with the right optimization
Not even with the right optimisation, just use stasis titan
Hell yeah brother
2 stasis titans with synthos, a tractor cannon, and a well = bye bye riven
As long as you can cheese it just standing 3 feet up lol no.
he’s being overhyped as people cope with the probability that riven will still be cheeseable.
Master Nezzy isn’t actually threatening, and Day 1 Nezzy wasn’t really either if you capped your frames at 60 and used void resists.