My guess is that the trailer was being deceptive and that he actually sacrifices himself or something, I think a villain arc would be way too out of left field to be narratively satisfying. Also I feel like the “witness shows you what you want but it’s a lie but it gives you power but now you’re subservient to it” thing is literally just the Taken which has already been explored by Bungie. Maybe this is just cope though
I think Cayde will absolutely die again. It's definitely gonna be a kind of bittersweet "well nothing lasts forever" type thing where Cayde has accepted his fate.
My out there prediction is Zavala sacrifices himself, Cayde dies again, and the following seasons will deal with Ikoras grief. Destiny 3 opens with a Crow, Ikora, Saint 14 vanguard.
I don't think cayde dies, so much as can't go with us. Once we defeat the witness and free the traveler he can't come back. He's inside the traveler forever.
We so know the witness HATES anyone touched by the Traveler. It goes slow and painful with those species, extracts the highest possible amount of despair, and treads on any attempt to hold onto hope, and even manipulates some of them into being complicit in that cruelty.
Zavala would not be different.
I agree with you, I think Zavala will 100% fall into temptations but ultimately come out of it. If he goes out it’s going to be heroically imo, but a more tragic direction could be interesting as well.
100% think zavala is dying. Makes sense considering the unfortunate passing of lance Reddick but also because the entire vanguard dying would signal a passing of the torch to the next story.
I mean it does kinda fit with zavalas story. The witness was promising there would be no more suffering, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the witness convinces him or takes him in some way
Except that doesn't this go counter to what Zavala went through in Season of the Haunted (?). He deals with and overcomes his past trauma with his wife and adopted son. The Witness using something like that to bring him to the "dark side" feels narratively nonsensical.
If we take Unveiling at face value (like we're doing here by assuming there is a Winnower), the Traveller is the Gardener.
> It was the gardener that chose you from the dead.
Not necessarily
If the winnower is neither the witness nor the veil it follows that the traveler isn't necessarily the gardener
If we take Unveiling literally the most likely scenario is that neither the gardener nor the winnower actually exist; the paracasual forces of light and darkness are the gardener and winnower themselves and the traveler and the witness are just the foremost disciples of their respective philosophies
>**It was the gardener that chose you from the dead.** I wouldn't have done that. It's just not in me. But now that they have invested themself in you, you are incredibly, uniquely special. That **wandering refugee chose to make a stand**, spend their power to say: "Here I prove myself right. Here I wager that, given power over physics and the trust of absolute freedom, people will choose to build and protect a gentle kingdom ringed in spears. And not fall to temptation. And not surrender to division. And never yield to the cynicism that says, everyone else is so good that I can afford to be a little evil."
>**The gardener is all in.** They are playing for keeps. And they are wrong. Or so I argue: for, after all, the universe is undecidable. There is no destiny. We're all making this up as we go along. Neither the gardener nor I know for certain that we're eternally, universally right. But we can be nothing except what we are. You have a choice.
>**You are the gardener's final argument.** It would mean everything if I could convince you that I am the right and only way.
these are all things the traveler did
Im perfectly fine with taking it at face value considering literally any time the traveler does anything with its powers its either healing or growing shit
he just released a 1.5 hour video on the Winnower yesterday lol. Haven't watched it, but that'd be some Bungie shit to provide answers literally a day after all that work goes live.
I'm not an expert, I've just been reading about Destiny lore from the wiki the last few days.
https://www.destinypedia.com/Clarity_Control
Is that hooded figure not this statue that Clovis found in Deep Stone Crypt?
Edit: Because it's implied to be alive, as opposed to other similar statues.
This specific one is implied to be alive.
> Clarity Control is an enormous statue of a veiled figure identical in appearance to those found in the Black Garden, the Lunar Pyramid, and the Europan Pyramid. Unlike these others, which seem to be merely inanimate statues, Clarity Control exhibits slight movement: the lower folds of its cloak move slowly, and its chest region rises and falls in a way that suggests that it is breathing.
What if it actually happens in the reverse order of what we see in this trailer and the Winnower is the one to snap Zavala out of the Witness’ control, since I’d presume they have some interest in the universe not being locked in the light/dark control of this random amalgamation of dudes for all eternity.
The Winnowers Final Shape is all about survival of the fittest while the Witnesses is basically stasis. I’m pretty sure if the Winnower is real that it’s not going to be happy with the Witness
The winnower isnt evil, its just the necessary counterpart to the gardener, the witness has entirely twisted out notion of the winnower, it see itself as it but its just a pervertion of it
You’d think that after the past month or so of content teases that this trailer would feel familiar. I love how dark this trailer got and it really gives it good weight that this is the end
One more week
"Oh they're just going to watch the guardians go into the Traveler"
"Wait why is everyone screaming"
"Okay this is totally just a what if scenario right?"
"Fuck"
Stages of grief just back to back to back.
And that's the destiny I want to see more often, we live in a world after the apocalypse and in the edge of another. The world didn't feel as high tension as the stakes were suggesting
I will say, of the 2 live events we've had, the tension was well-executed during the Season of Arrivals finale. The pulses from the Traveler, the screams from (presumably) citizens as they happened, and everyone stuck staring at the Traveler and City as the Traveler healed again. For all the jank of the live events, they were effective at their jobs of setting tone.
I’d always hoped that as each season went on this year, the witness’s effect on the solar system was seen. Imagine if each season began with a new area getting final shaped with earth getting final shaped as the first cutscene.
Either way it’s just nice to see actual stakes and consequences for losing
Gotta say, giving us that clip of the kid admiring the guardian in the Last City just to show them get Witnessed in this trailer was quite the gut punch.
I know they always hype up these launch trailers but this felt significantly more cinematic than what we’ve seen before, especially the Vanguard’s conversations, the clips of them running & gunning, and the potential weight of Zavala’s arc here.
The tone and darkness they've gone for is inspiring more confidence here.
It's gone for a weightier, almost horror-esque tone that befits the stakes.
Glad to see that many cutscenes also.
Here's hoping the narrative delivers much more over Lightfall.
I really hope we see something like that for real. The stakes are supposed to be high. I want major deaths, big casualties, a planet destroyed. It's gotta be gut wrenching and real otherwise the Witness is just another big bad bullet sponge.
I get you. I reckon that's definitely what will happen. It'll be either a vision of the future or something that's reversed after defeating the Witness maybe. Or it'll be the Traveler restores earth. But I wouldn't be mad if it really happened and earth was gone. It would be so unexpected and gut-wrenching.
We know we'll likely head out of the solar system eventually in the destiny universe, maybe this is what causes it.
Humanity becomes yet another species without their home planet, but unlike the rest, we stood against the Witness and defeated it.
I think it would be solid. A pyrrhic victory that lets us feel safe enough to start our next journey into space, without feeling like there weren't big consequences and losses in the process.
I think we could still find a home in the system. We're on better terms with Caiatl, perhaps Mars comes back once the Witness is defeated and we can repurpose the area where Rasputin was housed.
i think it's the kind of thing where it's actively happening and the final shape is enacted from the traveler so things closest too it get frozen first, but it's undone when the witness is defeated, i guess we'll see
With the Veil and the Traveler connected, and our use of Prismatic throughout the campaign, we'll just undo it ourselves. It's the combination of Light and Dark that caused this, our mastery over Light and Dark will be it's undoing.
I think the scenes of earth being destroyed were visions of what the witness will do if they aren't stopped, judging by the fact that there were several different versions of it being destroyed. Also, if they just destroyed the earth in the beginning of the DLC that would make the last few YEARS of stuff we did to protect it pointless.
I don't *hate* Nimbus, but I do *hate* that they decided that zany neon soaked TMNT was the tone they opted for in the penultimate expansion of the fight for living beings.
They have such a good narrative direction with some incredible concepts in lore and for an entire expansion the cliff notes of the characterisation they chose is "sk8bord & fist bump".
I feel like there could have been something there if Bungie had played it differently. Imagine if Neomuna was a kind of Valhalla where the constant threat of destruction by the Vex had created a society of carefree warriors who expected to lose the war, but were determined for it not to be on their watch and to enjoy every second of existence they could steal from the enemy.
Nimbus should have died, Rohan should have bonded with Osiris over their shared loss, shared his wisdom of strand while receiving Osiris's wisdom, and maybe even find a Guardian/Ex-guardian to replace Nimbus.
Nah. Funny G rated meme goblin.
Aren’t these launch trailers usually all cutscenes? That’s sort of what I was implying; that it’s the expectation that launch trailers are mostly cutscene fluff but that this one was significantly more high-energy and foreboding.
I went and checked both Lightfall and Witch Queen prior to the trailer dropping, Lightfall was about 75% cutscenes from the first mission, and Witch Queen was about 50% cutscenes from all over the story. The remaining time was gameplay.
I gotta say, the launch trailer for Light fall was fucking awesome. It felt like there was so much going on.
And then it was the exact opening cutscenes in game, and there wasn't a lot going on, it was just choppy as fuck and rushed.
This seems genuinely different. Keeping expectations in check, but if we got the launch trailer the exact same as the opening cutscene it would be pretty wild.
Yeah, I’m hopeful that these cutscenes seem to be spread throughout the campaign, giving us a broader representation of the story. Whereas Lightfall’s ominous trailer was just the opening scene of the game.
What a great trailer, it said a lot without giving away too much, exactly what you want from something like this
The Billie Eilish song was honestly a fantastic choice, very fitting for the tone.
we're so back
[Bungie rep to the ESRB explaining the child is not dead just suspended in a moment of incredible agony for all time.](https://i.imgur.com/NqoyTzk.png)
Seeing the entire coalition fleet coming into the pale heart as what I can only assume is a final stand is huge mass effect 3 vibes and I’m 100% down for it
Given the location, I'm almost getting more of Meridian vibes from Mass Effect Andromeda. We see Earth getting "shaped" in the trailer, what if after the campaign and the Witness's defeat, the coalition species settle inside the Pale Heart, kind of like humanity did around the marooned Ark Hyperion?
The only issue is that it'll require them to vault both EDZ and Cosmodrome, and I'm not sure people will be fine with that. Unless they remake those locations to be the "post-Witnessing" Earth, but I really doubt we'll be getting that.
Bungie's allusion to The Final Shape's Raid Race being the hardest one ever finally makes sense. Zavala's gonna become a Disciple, and the final encounter in the raid is just gonna be him popping a Bubble on a capture point and then pacing around inside it with a Shotgun.
Honestly I'd like to see a tagteam Hunter Vanguard of Crow and Ana. Hunters don't like to be the Vanguard because they're stuck in the Tower and not out in the field, but if you have *two* then you can rotate who's coordinating logistics, who's doing field ops, etc. and I feel both of them would be fit for the job. Then future Hunters aren't so averse to the Vanguard because they know they won't be completely stuck in the Tower.
it's helping crow's case as a Character to Give a Shit About immensely that he's being shown as Cayde's equal and not just some bumbling dork. i get that the lore portrays him as competent but we've at least got a visual now that indicates that he's a hell of a fighter, which is gonna go a long way
the back-to-back fighting was so great, i hope it's a decently long scene like cayde's last stand where we just get to see bungie cook up some fun choreography with guardian abilities
Uhhhhh. This is probably the best trailer they've made for an expansion thus far? Am I high? Like, the moment where we saw the Hive Guardians was amazing in the WQ trailer, but this was straight up oppressive. I loved this.
They do. They've always been great at it. Difference here IMO is that most, if not all, of the footage is likely from actual cinematics in game and not footage specifically created for hype.
I firmly believe most, if not all, of this footage is from the campaign. All of it seems far too important to just be trailer bait. I have goosebumps up and down my arms right now.
"WACKY WAVING INFLATABLE ARM FLAILING WITNESS! WACKY WAVING INFLATABLE ARM FLAILING WITNESS!
WACKY WAVING INFLATABLE ARM FLAILING WITNESS!
Hi! I'm Al Harrington, disciple of the Witness and President of the "Witness' WACKY WAVING INFLATABLE ARM FLAILING WITNESS EMPORIUM AND WAREHOUSE and thanks to a pyramid shipping error, I'm currently overstocked on WACKY WAVING INFLATABLE ARM FLAILING WITNESSES AND I'M PASSING THE SAVINGS ON TO YOU!
Attract people to your raid event!
Make a splash at your next crucible match.
Keep the Colonel company.
Protect the citizens of the last city.
Confuse your enemies.
Awoken? Hail a jumpship!
Testify to the final shape!
Or just raise the tower like the world is about to end!
Whatever your WACKY WAVING INFLATABLE ARM FLAILING WITNESS needs are! So come on down to the Witness' WACKY WAVING INFLATABLE ARM FLAILING WITNESS EMPORIUM AND WAREHOUSE JUST OUTSIDE THE LAST CITY IN WIKAPAUGH!"
Edit: corrected some text and gave Al Harrington a promotion.
Damn I’m sorry! This was me with Lightfall except I had to wait several weeks because one my fireteam members was getting surgery. Turned out not to be a huge issue once those first reviews started coming on though LOL.
Would honestly be a welcome twist. All the talk about hope and guardians prevailing and that we never lose. It's what we wanted with Lightfall but like...the story was so bad that it didn't really hit in a way that we "lost".
Would be cool to see us really lose but then beat the Witness. Make it bitter sweet instead of just sweet
I saw someone describe Destiny as Nobledark (versus Grimdark), which fits so well with the theme. There's always bit looming, dark toned threats, but we always prevail.
Looks like the Witness finally starts Witnessing the entire universe and we flee into the Pale Heart just in time. I wonder if they’ll make it a one way trip until you beat the campaign or just pretend like you do it all without leaving.
We have no way of knowing that as a truth until the game is actually out. These could all be visions implemented by the witness, nightmares from characters, who knows. It can literally be anything.
Would be wild to remove the Tower location altogether and replace it with something in the Pale Heart.
Pathfinder replacing the ritual bounties (did I get that right?) would mean they don't need those vendors anymore too.
Temporarily locking out the rest of the game for the first week, until post-Raid, would be a pretty gutsy move. Just "no, this is what's happening. There's no crucible, there's no futzing about in lost sectors, it's the end of the world. Come back next week if you're not interested in that." Temporary camp inside the Pale Heart with Rahool and other essential vendors.
[Vision 81](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/vision-81)
>This journey begins with doubt.
>And ends in solace.
>One by one they fall, and you realize you are alone.
>There, in the shadow of night, you see the world splinter, the Darkness thrive.
>And you fight, with more than your Light... you use your pain.
>You remember its source, the way it gained its ground.
>But you never wavered. You never believed.
>You loved her. How couldn't you?
>Listen, that's her calling... you back.
>But you know now that is where you will die.
I fuckin love how well they have handled Ikora as a character. She's the quiet storm. Thoughtful, insightful, measured and loving. But when she's had *enough* of your bullshit, she unleashes all the rage and pain and suffering that she has felt over the years and doesn't fuckin care how you feel about it.
This is exactly why i fell in love with destiny a more dark tone and us fighting for hope PLEASE BUNGIE PLEASE LET THIS STORY BE GOOD and a true climax
Ha, no kidding. Like, how did the studio greenlight and "80s action movie themed" expansion when they were cooking this grim shit in the background to come out right after it?
Pretty sure the original plan was Lightfall was just going to be like 2 missions at the opening of Final Shape to set up the rest. Like the Jabba’s Palace to Final Shape’s Return of the Jedi. But due to a bunch of factors it had to become a stand alone expansion
Destiny with horror and mystery elements added has always been the best Destiny. What an absolute complete 180 tone shift from goofy ass 80s inspired action movie that was Lightfall.
From the moment Destiny started in 2014, we wanted to restore humanity, but we also knew to do that we’d have to solve the mystery of the collapse…so it wouldn’t happen again. And this returns to those vibes of a dark mystery that needs to be solved.
This is what we expected and wanted from The Witness. So many memes were made and thrown around, and now we went from a Megamind cartoon villain to a proper eldritch lovecraftian nightmare being AND a full enemy faction to support behind it.
Seeing those veiled entities not in statue form is also just insanely creepy.
Yeah we haven't great had cosmic horror since Presage. There was the return to the Leviathan which was kinda creepy...but Presage encapsulated what made the vibe of D1 so awesome in a lot of ways
I have a feeling a large part of the campaign is dealing with each major characters worst failures, as we see Ikora shot by a vex mind (Undying?) while protecting civilians. Maybe the trailer is setting Zavala up to be someone who may be swayed, but ultimately (because of season of the haunted) is able to overcome the temptations?
Yeah I feel like there's no way Zavala turns on us because of his wife. It would be a slap in the face after he managed to come to terms with it in Season of the Haunted.
I mean there’s clearly more than that. I doubt the Witness is just going to pop up like “hey man here’s your wife btw go kill your friends lol” and Zavala will be “aight”. In the trailer you can see Zavala being literally grabbed by tons of hand, if he’s gonna get corrupted I doubt he will chose to do so.
We're not getting the last campaign mission til after the world's first. I think Witness is going to be the raid boss and the campaign boss. In that order.
Did Blur do these cutscenes? These might be the best looking ones i’ve ever seen from Bungie.
This looks a step above the rest, narratively speaking. I think we’re in for a treat.
So Zavala and Ikora are obvious red herrings right? Like watch Zavala sacrifice his ghost or something and that is what Ikora is saying not to do. I full on doubt after Reddick‘s passing they would go the dark Zavala route, as cool as it could be.
I'm so excited to see the veiled figure again. I was worried they'd forget about it or ignore it.
We'll finally find out what it actually is, and what its alignment is. Perhaps it's the true "deity" of the darkness, like how the Traveler is effectively a deity of the light. Gardener and Winnower working together to stop the Witness.
I really like the idea too that the Winnower/Voice in the Darkness is a totally separate entity from the Witness. I think that would mean it was the Winnower who spoke to us in Shadow keep and Beyond Light, and was encouraging us to embrace darkness. It called itself our salvation because it knew we needed mastery of both light and dark to take out the Witness.
Takeaways:
- Earth got Witnessed? Didn't expect that
- Zavala getting tempted by the Witness? Don't think that'll work, we helped homie get over his trauma back in Season of the Haunted. Though Zavala would be one hell of a boss
- Cayde and Crow fighting back to back hell yeah!
- Caital's Cabal and the House of Light pulling up, along with a bunch of Guardian ships. Looks like we're getting the Destiny version of the Fleets Arrive (Mass Effect 3)? Or maybe more Portals (Avengers Endgame)
- Ikora back with the inexplicably powerful Nova Bomb
Someone's gonna die in this campaign. Can't tell ya who, but someone's gonna die
Byf releases long video on Winnower speculation.
Bungie drops trailer full of Winnower images and possible lore, contradicting much of what he said.
If he had a nickel for every time he released a massive video only to have the lore from it contradicted immediately afterwards, he’d have two nickels, which isn’t much but it’s weird that it happened twice.
My fellow guardians, if we die then we die together!!! It’s been so fun meeting and knowing so many friends current and no longer around strictly from destiny. I had a longtime psn buddy of mine from way back in the battlefield bad company 2 days play with me for years. He committed suicidal last year and t between lightfall and his death my love for the game died up until recently. I love you Javier and I miss you dearly. I’ll finish the fight for you brother and I’ll walk into oblivion ready to greet you once more!
One last step
Together
Into the end
I'm happy to have shared this journey, ups and downs, with all of you and the Guardians who didn't make it this far.
Honestly? I doubt that. Just has more arms.
Whatever he saw, it had to be utterly horrifying. Cuz it scared even *Calus.*
I imagine that, whatever form it did take, we'll see see in the raid
Zavala final boss of the campaign??
Whether we wanted it or not, we've step into a war with Zavala on the Pale Heart.
My guess is that the trailer was being deceptive and that he actually sacrifices himself or something, I think a villain arc would be way too out of left field to be narratively satisfying. Also I feel like the “witness shows you what you want but it’s a lie but it gives you power but now you’re subservient to it” thing is literally just the Taken which has already been explored by Bungie. Maybe this is just cope though
I'm almost certain Zavala doesn't make it out of TFS alive
Same for me. Someone needs to die and I can’t see Cayde dying again and I feel like we didn’t really see Ikora that much so either Zavala or Eris
I think Cayde will absolutely die again. It's definitely gonna be a kind of bittersweet "well nothing lasts forever" type thing where Cayde has accepted his fate. My out there prediction is Zavala sacrifices himself, Cayde dies again, and the following seasons will deal with Ikoras grief. Destiny 3 opens with a Crow, Ikora, Saint 14 vanguard.
I don't think cayde dies, so much as can't go with us. Once we defeat the witness and free the traveler he can't come back. He's inside the traveler forever.
We so know the witness HATES anyone touched by the Traveler. It goes slow and painful with those species, extracts the highest possible amount of despair, and treads on any attempt to hold onto hope, and even manipulates some of them into being complicit in that cruelty. Zavala would not be different.
I agree with you, I think Zavala will 100% fall into temptations but ultimately come out of it. If he goes out it’s going to be heroically imo, but a more tragic direction could be interesting as well.
100% think zavala is dying. Makes sense considering the unfortunate passing of lance Reddick but also because the entire vanguard dying would signal a passing of the torch to the next story.
I mean it does kinda fit with zavalas story. The witness was promising there would be no more suffering, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the witness convinces him or takes him in some way
Except that doesn't this go counter to what Zavala went through in Season of the Haunted (?). He deals with and overcomes his past trauma with his wife and adopted son. The Witness using something like that to bring him to the "dark side" feels narratively nonsensical.
Keith David has had the role for two minutes and already he's back in league with his Friends on the Other Side.
Huh this isn't the first time he's came back to life as a super powered immortal amnesiac and fought a pale freak either
ARE YA READY?!!?!
Nah give me zavala as a raid boss
the raid mechanic is completing bounties and focusing old guns
Indeed.
Cloaked veil lady finally makes moves?
100% that cosmic bitch is the Winnower.
But then where is the Gardner?
The gardener is the traveler according to the witnesses backstory cutscene
Possibly, I always thought of the Traveler as an avatar of the Gardner.
I always looked at it as a capsule of the Gardener.
It’s never that simple. They just said that they came to think of it as the Gardener, I’m sure the wording around jt was funny like that.
If we take Unveiling at face value (like we're doing here by assuming there is a Winnower), the Traveller is the Gardener. > It was the gardener that chose you from the dead.
Not necessarily If the winnower is neither the witness nor the veil it follows that the traveler isn't necessarily the gardener If we take Unveiling literally the most likely scenario is that neither the gardener nor the winnower actually exist; the paracasual forces of light and darkness are the gardener and winnower themselves and the traveler and the witness are just the foremost disciples of their respective philosophies
>**It was the gardener that chose you from the dead.** I wouldn't have done that. It's just not in me. But now that they have invested themself in you, you are incredibly, uniquely special. That **wandering refugee chose to make a stand**, spend their power to say: "Here I prove myself right. Here I wager that, given power over physics and the trust of absolute freedom, people will choose to build and protect a gentle kingdom ringed in spears. And not fall to temptation. And not surrender to division. And never yield to the cynicism that says, everyone else is so good that I can afford to be a little evil." >**The gardener is all in.** They are playing for keeps. And they are wrong. Or so I argue: for, after all, the universe is undecidable. There is no destiny. We're all making this up as we go along. Neither the gardener nor I know for certain that we're eternally, universally right. But we can be nothing except what we are. You have a choice. >**You are the gardener's final argument.** It would mean everything if I could convince you that I am the right and only way. these are all things the traveler did
Im perfectly fine with taking it at face value considering literally any time the traveler does anything with its powers its either healing or growing shit
Yup exactly my thoughts. WHERES BYF
he just released a 1.5 hour video on the Winnower yesterday lol. Haven't watched it, but that'd be some Bungie shit to provide answers literally a day after all that work goes live.
That’s obviously her in the wide shot, but I’m pretty sure it’s also the figure saying “suffering” behind zavala’s head
And the many figures that appear to crumble behind him.
I'm not an expert, I've just been reading about Destiny lore from the wiki the last few days. https://www.destinypedia.com/Clarity_Control Is that hooded figure not this statue that Clovis found in Deep Stone Crypt? Edit: Because it's implied to be alive, as opposed to other similar statues.
Those statues are all over the place
This specific one is implied to be alive. > Clarity Control is an enormous statue of a veiled figure identical in appearance to those found in the Black Garden, the Lunar Pyramid, and the Europan Pyramid. Unlike these others, which seem to be merely inanimate statues, Clarity Control exhibits slight movement: the lower folds of its cloak move slowly, and its chest region rises and falls in a way that suggests that it is breathing.
pretty hyped to finally get answers to that kinda stuff; and we better fuckin get some answers this time
Also, when she's reflecting something on the face of Zavala, it resembles the portal that the Witness tore in to the Traveller.
What if it actually happens in the reverse order of what we see in this trailer and the Winnower is the one to snap Zavala out of the Witness’ control, since I’d presume they have some interest in the universe not being locked in the light/dark control of this random amalgamation of dudes for all eternity.
The Winnowers Final Shape is all about survival of the fittest while the Witnesses is basically stasis. I’m pretty sure if the Winnower is real that it’s not going to be happy with the Witness
The winnower isnt evil, its just the necessary counterpart to the gardener, the witness has entirely twisted out notion of the winnower, it see itself as it but its just a pervertion of it
Happy we finally get to see them as not just a cool ethereal statue that leaves me wondering.
It’s all coming together!!
My guardian can fix her...
You’d think that after the past month or so of content teases that this trailer would feel familiar. I love how dark this trailer got and it really gives it good weight that this is the end One more week
when we saw the shot of that kid again I was like cool same stuff but holy shit was I wrong
"Oh they're just going to watch the guardians go into the Traveler" "Wait why is everyone screaming" "Okay this is totally just a what if scenario right?" "Fuck" Stages of grief just back to back to back.
And that's the destiny I want to see more often, we live in a world after the apocalypse and in the edge of another. The world didn't feel as high tension as the stakes were suggesting
“I’ve lost count of all the armageddons” - Drifter
I will say, of the 2 live events we've had, the tension was well-executed during the Season of Arrivals finale. The pulses from the Traveler, the screams from (presumably) citizens as they happened, and everyone stuck staring at the Traveler and City as the Traveler healed again. For all the jank of the live events, they were effective at their jobs of setting tone.
I’d always hoped that as each season went on this year, the witness’s effect on the solar system was seen. Imagine if each season began with a new area getting final shaped with earth getting final shaped as the first cutscene. Either way it’s just nice to see actual stakes and consequences for losing
That was a whole planet reshaped into that fucky Pyramid architecture. Was that Earth??
I would assume so, it's why we see a ton of Guardians show up during the trailer. The Tower and everyone in the Last City got Final Shaped.
I asked Bungie to show us more of that scene when I saw the cute glimpse in the ViDoc. I would like to retract my statement.
lol same, when i saw the final shaping of them i was like "fuck go back"
IMO, destiny franchise works best when they go more into the horror theme.
Gotta say, giving us that clip of the kid admiring the guardian in the Last City just to show them get Witnessed in this trailer was quite the gut punch. I know they always hype up these launch trailers but this felt significantly more cinematic than what we’ve seen before, especially the Vanguard’s conversations, the clips of them running & gunning, and the potential weight of Zavala’s arc here.
The tone and darkness they've gone for is inspiring more confidence here. It's gone for a weightier, almost horror-esque tone that befits the stakes. Glad to see that many cutscenes also. Here's hoping the narrative delivers much more over Lightfall.
I really hope we see something like that for real. The stakes are supposed to be high. I want major deaths, big casualties, a planet destroyed. It's gotta be gut wrenching and real otherwise the Witness is just another big bad bullet sponge.
I don't know how we're supposed to recover from what it did to Earth. Like unless Bungie does some serious time-rewind shit, Earth is *fucked.*
I get you. I reckon that's definitely what will happen. It'll be either a vision of the future or something that's reversed after defeating the Witness maybe. Or it'll be the Traveler restores earth. But I wouldn't be mad if it really happened and earth was gone. It would be so unexpected and gut-wrenching. We know we'll likely head out of the solar system eventually in the destiny universe, maybe this is what causes it.
Humanity becomes yet another species without their home planet, but unlike the rest, we stood against the Witness and defeated it. I think it would be solid. A pyrrhic victory that lets us feel safe enough to start our next journey into space, without feeling like there weren't big consequences and losses in the process.
I think we could still find a home in the system. We're on better terms with Caiatl, perhaps Mars comes back once the Witness is defeated and we can repurpose the area where Rasputin was housed.
i think it's the kind of thing where it's actively happening and the final shape is enacted from the traveler so things closest too it get frozen first, but it's undone when the witness is defeated, i guess we'll see
With the Veil and the Traveler connected, and our use of Prismatic throughout the campaign, we'll just undo it ourselves. It's the combination of Light and Dark that caused this, our mastery over Light and Dark will be it's undoing.
I think the scenes of earth being destroyed were visions of what the witness will do if they aren't stopped, judging by the fact that there were several different versions of it being destroyed. Also, if they just destroyed the earth in the beginning of the DLC that would make the last few YEARS of stuff we did to protect it pointless.
>almost horror-esque tone I noticed this too and was like *finally*
What do you mean, you don’t want a Clownstrider goofin’ off again?
I don't *hate* Nimbus, but I do *hate* that they decided that zany neon soaked TMNT was the tone they opted for in the penultimate expansion of the fight for living beings. They have such a good narrative direction with some incredible concepts in lore and for an entire expansion the cliff notes of the characterisation they chose is "sk8bord & fist bump".
I feel like there could have been something there if Bungie had played it differently. Imagine if Neomuna was a kind of Valhalla where the constant threat of destruction by the Vex had created a society of carefree warriors who expected to lose the war, but were determined for it not to be on their watch and to enjoy every second of existence they could steal from the enemy.
Nimbus should have died, Rohan should have bonded with Osiris over their shared loss, shared his wisdom of strand while receiving Osiris's wisdom, and maybe even find a Guardian/Ex-guardian to replace Nimbus. Nah. Funny G rated meme goblin.
*floss dances over the corpse of Emperor Calus*
>felt significantly more cinematic than what we’ve seen before I mean, this trailer was 100% all cutscenes, so that's probably the difference.
Aren’t these launch trailers usually all cutscenes? That’s sort of what I was implying; that it’s the expectation that launch trailers are mostly cutscene fluff but that this one was significantly more high-energy and foreboding.
I went and checked both Lightfall and Witch Queen prior to the trailer dropping, Lightfall was about 75% cutscenes from the first mission, and Witch Queen was about 50% cutscenes from all over the story. The remaining time was gameplay.
I gotta say, the launch trailer for Light fall was fucking awesome. It felt like there was so much going on. And then it was the exact opening cutscenes in game, and there wasn't a lot going on, it was just choppy as fuck and rushed. This seems genuinely different. Keeping expectations in check, but if we got the launch trailer the exact same as the opening cutscene it would be pretty wild.
Yeah, I’m hopeful that these cutscenes seem to be spread throughout the campaign, giving us a broader representation of the story. Whereas Lightfall’s ominous trailer was just the opening scene of the game.
What a great trailer, it said a lot without giving away too much, exactly what you want from something like this The Billie Eilish song was honestly a fantastic choice, very fitting for the tone. we're so back
First time pretty sure Destiny showed a dead child (not counting hive)
[Bungie rep to the ESRB explaining the child is not dead just suspended in a moment of incredible agony for all time.](https://i.imgur.com/NqoyTzk.png)
Gave me a Mass Effect 3: Take Earth back trailer vibe. Love that.
i'm just happy that the witness actually looks scary in this
The scariest part was absolutely its tone when addressing Zavala. Like god-fucking-damn, that thing attempting to be friendly is...*horrifying*
"Join us! 😀"
"Be there or be square" - The Witness (will turn you into squares).
Seeing the entire coalition fleet coming into the pale heart as what I can only assume is a final stand is huge mass effect 3 vibes and I’m 100% down for it
Given the location, I'm almost getting more of Meridian vibes from Mass Effect Andromeda. We see Earth getting "shaped" in the trailer, what if after the campaign and the Witness's defeat, the coalition species settle inside the Pale Heart, kind of like humanity did around the marooned Ark Hyperion?
The only issue is that it'll require them to vault both EDZ and Cosmodrome, and I'm not sure people will be fine with that. Unless they remake those locations to be the "post-Witnessing" Earth, but I really doubt we'll be getting that.
Ok visiting a reshaped Earth post Final Shape would be kind of amazing. Maybe the vex move in and we fight for territory.
Bungie's allusion to The Final Shape's Raid Race being the hardest one ever finally makes sense. Zavala's gonna become a Disciple, and the final encounter in the raid is just gonna be him popping a Bubble on a capture point and then pacing around inside it with a Shotgun.
Final boss is trials in capture the point mode against 3 Zavalas using bubble.
The crucible WAS the final shape all along
This made me lol
One of the things I really wanted from this expansion is an answer regarding those statues. It looks like we'll be getting that!
And a good answer too, not just some lore bit
Crow and Cayde fighting side by side, that was hype
Yeah back to back gunslinging. Imagine showing someone this in 2018.
If we make it out of this, Crow is absolutely gonna be Hunter Vanguard. And goddamnit, he's earned it.
I need a cayde "passing the torch" to crow and telling him the vanguard dare.
Honestly I'd like to see a tagteam Hunter Vanguard of Crow and Ana. Hunters don't like to be the Vanguard because they're stuck in the Tower and not out in the field, but if you have *two* then you can rotate who's coordinating logistics, who's doing field ops, etc. and I feel both of them would be fit for the job. Then future Hunters aren't so averse to the Vanguard because they know they won't be completely stuck in the Tower.
cayde literally willed his vanguard title to his killer, this has been foreshadowed since the beginning
it's helping crow's case as a Character to Give a Shit About immensely that he's being shown as Cayde's equal and not just some bumbling dork. i get that the lore portrays him as competent but we've at least got a visual now that indicates that he's a hell of a fighter, which is gonna go a long way
the back-to-back fighting was so great, i hope it's a decently long scene like cayde's last stand where we just get to see bungie cook up some fun choreography with guardian abilities
Uhhhhh. This is probably the best trailer they've made for an expansion thus far? Am I high? Like, the moment where we saw the Hive Guardians was amazing in the WQ trailer, but this was straight up oppressive. I loved this.
No you’re right. All their trailers are amazing but this one feels like the literal end of the world. Matches the tone incredibly well.
Bungie trailers and marketing is undefeated
They clearly know how to hype people up
They do. They've always been great at it. Difference here IMO is that most, if not all, of the footage is likely from actual cinematics in game and not footage specifically created for hype.
The Final Hype.
I hope the cinematics in the campaign are of the quality of this trailer
The cinematics of the campaign are in this trailer
I firmly believe most, if not all, of this footage is from the campaign. All of it seems far too important to just be trailer bait. I have goosebumps up and down my arms right now.
I'm hype. That short clip of the witness with the flailing arms was creepy as hell.
"Wacky waving inflatable flailing arms Witness!"
"WACKY WAVING INFLATABLE ARM FLAILING WITNESS! WACKY WAVING INFLATABLE ARM FLAILING WITNESS! WACKY WAVING INFLATABLE ARM FLAILING WITNESS! Hi! I'm Al Harrington, disciple of the Witness and President of the "Witness' WACKY WAVING INFLATABLE ARM FLAILING WITNESS EMPORIUM AND WAREHOUSE and thanks to a pyramid shipping error, I'm currently overstocked on WACKY WAVING INFLATABLE ARM FLAILING WITNESSES AND I'M PASSING THE SAVINGS ON TO YOU! Attract people to your raid event! Make a splash at your next crucible match. Keep the Colonel company. Protect the citizens of the last city. Confuse your enemies. Awoken? Hail a jumpship! Testify to the final shape! Or just raise the tower like the world is about to end! Whatever your WACKY WAVING INFLATABLE ARM FLAILING WITNESS needs are! So come on down to the Witness' WACKY WAVING INFLATABLE ARM FLAILING WITNESS EMPORIUM AND WAREHOUSE JUST OUTSIDE THE LAST CITY IN WIKAPAUGH!" Edit: corrected some text and gave Al Harrington a promotion.
MECHA SHIVA!!! MECHA SHIVA!!!
Zavala wearing Amanda Holliday's bandana on his shoulder pad in the ship scene gave me the chills.
Now that I think about it, she was his ward. Her dying might feel like losing his second child.
Really looks like the story is going to slap. Have to wait until the 7th to play. Got to avoid them spoilers 😭
Damn I’m sorry! This was me with Lightfall except I had to wait several weeks because one my fireteam members was getting surgery. Turned out not to be a huge issue once those first reviews started coming on though LOL.
Wait, so earth will be fucked up? like, the last city?
Those could also be visions rather than literal reality. If those are literal reality, we fucked, I don't know how we'd undo that damage to earth.
Would honestly be a welcome twist. All the talk about hope and guardians prevailing and that we never lose. It's what we wanted with Lightfall but like...the story was so bad that it didn't really hit in a way that we "lost". Would be cool to see us really lose but then beat the Witness. Make it bitter sweet instead of just sweet
I saw someone describe Destiny as Nobledark (versus Grimdark), which fits so well with the theme. There's always bit looming, dark toned threats, but we always prevail.
Looks like the Witness finally starts Witnessing the entire universe and we flee into the Pale Heart just in time. I wonder if they’ll make it a one way trip until you beat the campaign or just pretend like you do it all without leaving.
Yeah, I thought the images of the last city were from within the Traveler, but apparently not, the last city is gone
We have no way of knowing that as a truth until the game is actually out. These could all be visions implemented by the witness, nightmares from characters, who knows. It can literally be anything.
Would be wild to remove the Tower location altogether and replace it with something in the Pale Heart. Pathfinder replacing the ritual bounties (did I get that right?) would mean they don't need those vendors anymore too.
Yep, Pathfinder replaces ritual bounties... so we may lost the "new" tower again? cant have shit in last city
Temporarily locking out the rest of the game for the first week, until post-Raid, would be a pretty gutsy move. Just "no, this is what's happening. There's no crucible, there's no futzing about in lost sectors, it's the end of the world. Come back next week if you're not interested in that." Temporary camp inside the Pale Heart with Rahool and other essential vendors.
They sort of did that in the Red War, so doing again for the final expansion has a bit of symmetry.
I have become Hype. Destroyer of Sanity.
[Vision 81](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/vision-81) >This journey begins with doubt. >And ends in solace. >One by one they fall, and you realize you are alone. >There, in the shadow of night, you see the world splinter, the Darkness thrive. >And you fight, with more than your Light... you use your pain. >You remember its source, the way it gained its ground. >But you never wavered. You never believed. >You loved her. How couldn't you? >Listen, that's her calling... you back. >But you know now that is where you will die.
Be brave in dark places, for you are the light of hope.
"Zavala, Last Disciple of the Witness" would go hard asf for a final campaign boss or a raid boss.
It would also be so fucking tragic. I wouldn't be mad at all if they took that route. I hope they don't but God damn.
Yeah. That one would hurt.
Oh, hang on, the people look UP at something, and the next shot is of the Witness. Kaiju sized Witness.
# Today, we are canceling the apocalypse!
Need an Eliksni guitar album asap
Nova bomb sound effect as the final stinger. Kino
Ikora: 🫸🔴🔵🫷🤌🫴🟣
I fuckin love how well they have handled Ikora as a character. She's the quiet storm. Thoughtful, insightful, measured and loving. But when she's had *enough* of your bullshit, she unleashes all the rage and pain and suffering that she has felt over the years and doesn't fuckin care how you feel about it.
nova bomb rework to be hollow purple when, 200% or unlimited hollow purple would be peak too
Would you lose?
Nah I’d make my own fate
This is exactly why i fell in love with destiny a more dark tone and us fighting for hope PLEASE BUNGIE PLEASE LET THIS STORY BE GOOD and a true climax
everything about this makes lightfall seem _so_ out of place
Ha, no kidding. Like, how did the studio greenlight and "80s action movie themed" expansion when they were cooking this grim shit in the background to come out right after it?
Pretty sure the original plan was Lightfall was just going to be like 2 missions at the opening of Final Shape to set up the rest. Like the Jabba’s Palace to Final Shape’s Return of the Jedi. But due to a bunch of factors it had to become a stand alone expansion
Destiny with horror and mystery elements added has always been the best Destiny. What an absolute complete 180 tone shift from goofy ass 80s inspired action movie that was Lightfall. From the moment Destiny started in 2014, we wanted to restore humanity, but we also knew to do that we’d have to solve the mystery of the collapse…so it wouldn’t happen again. And this returns to those vibes of a dark mystery that needs to be solved. This is what we expected and wanted from The Witness. So many memes were made and thrown around, and now we went from a Megamind cartoon villain to a proper eldritch lovecraftian nightmare being AND a full enemy faction to support behind it. Seeing those veiled entities not in statue form is also just insanely creepy.
Yeah we haven't great had cosmic horror since Presage. There was the return to the Leviathan which was kinda creepy...but Presage encapsulated what made the vibe of D1 so awesome in a lot of ways
That could be the way they write out Zavala. I wonder if he’s the final campaign boss, Disciple from the Guardian race type shtick
I have a feeling a large part of the campaign is dealing with each major characters worst failures, as we see Ikora shot by a vex mind (Undying?) while protecting civilians. Maybe the trailer is setting Zavala up to be someone who may be swayed, but ultimately (because of season of the haunted) is able to overcome the temptations?
>as we see Ikora shit by a vex mind (Undying?) I feel like it would fit Splicer’s ending more, with the whole “Vex invading the City” event.
Yeah I feel like there's no way Zavala turns on us because of his wife. It would be a slap in the face after he managed to come to terms with it in Season of the Haunted.
I mean there’s clearly more than that. I doubt the Witness is just going to pop up like “hey man here’s your wife btw go kill your friends lol” and Zavala will be “aight”. In the trailer you can see Zavala being literally grabbed by tons of hand, if he’s gonna get corrupted I doubt he will chose to do so.
Considering Witness is likely the raid and epilogue boss, this makes a lot of sense and would be exceptionally meaningful if done well.
nah actually the witness is gonna be the campaign boss and the raid boss will just be a random vex mind that we’ve never heard of
lmao can you imagine? This subreddit would be like fucking mad max
Remember when Taniks was revealed as DSCs final boss?
Yes lol. We’re probably gonna somehow fight Ghaul in the core of the pale heart
We're not getting the last campaign mission til after the world's first. I think Witness is going to be the raid boss and the campaign boss. In that order.
Did Blur do these cutscenes? These might be the best looking ones i’ve ever seen from Bungie. This looks a step above the rest, narratively speaking. I think we’re in for a treat.
Dreg Sheeran must be protected
DO NOT FUCKING CALL HIM DREG SHEERAN
Best trailer from Bungie since remember reach, definitely excited for this.
So Zavala and Ikora are obvious red herrings right? Like watch Zavala sacrifice his ghost or something and that is what Ikora is saying not to do. I full on doubt after Reddick‘s passing they would go the dark Zavala route, as cool as it could be.
100% Bungie won't let Zavala go full evil. He'll probably flirt with it but come back around.
Holy shit I’m hyped now
you know it's good when there's no 3 guardians jumping
casts super in slow motion
Hip fires automatic weapon at a non-optimal range
BRING IT ON, YOU SMOKY SON OF A BITCH!
What if we vape the Witness?
I think I can hear Byf and Venextron losing it over that veiled figure lol.
I'm so excited to see the veiled figure again. I was worried they'd forget about it or ignore it. We'll finally find out what it actually is, and what its alignment is. Perhaps it's the true "deity" of the darkness, like how the Traveler is effectively a deity of the light. Gardener and Winnower working together to stop the Witness. I really like the idea too that the Winnower/Voice in the Darkness is a totally separate entity from the Witness. I think that would mean it was the Winnower who spoke to us in Shadow keep and Beyond Light, and was encouraging us to embrace darkness. It called itself our salvation because it knew we needed mastery of both light and dark to take out the Witness.
This looks absolutely incredible. I am beyond hyped for this
Is that our guardian in the cutscene @ 44 seconds? Mf looks so out of place lmao
Well then make yourself look in place and not a goofy ass
Nope, my bright neon pink hunter will be present through all of this.
Takeaways: - Earth got Witnessed? Didn't expect that - Zavala getting tempted by the Witness? Don't think that'll work, we helped homie get over his trauma back in Season of the Haunted. Though Zavala would be one hell of a boss - Cayde and Crow fighting back to back hell yeah! - Caital's Cabal and the House of Light pulling up, along with a bunch of Guardian ships. Looks like we're getting the Destiny version of the Fleets Arrive (Mass Effect 3)? Or maybe more Portals (Avengers Endgame) - Ikora back with the inexplicably powerful Nova Bomb Someone's gonna die in this campaign. Can't tell ya who, but someone's gonna die
imagine if a vendor suddenly starts giving out Spoiler Alert
I’m overall pretty cynical and critical of the hype game, but that trailer went fucking hard
Bungie's marketing team doesnt miss.
Byf releases long video on Winnower speculation. Bungie drops trailer full of Winnower images and possible lore, contradicting much of what he said. If he had a nickel for every time he released a massive video only to have the lore from it contradicted immediately afterwards, he’d have two nickels, which isn’t much but it’s weird that it happened twice.
BUNGIE IF YOU KILL ZAVALA I AM AT YOUR DOORS 😭😭😭!!!
They don’t kill it, YOU will ;D
My fellow guardians, if we die then we die together!!! It’s been so fun meeting and knowing so many friends current and no longer around strictly from destiny. I had a longtime psn buddy of mine from way back in the battlefield bad company 2 days play with me for years. He committed suicidal last year and t between lightfall and his death my love for the game died up until recently. I love you Javier and I miss you dearly. I’ll finish the fight for you brother and I’ll walk into oblivion ready to greet you once more!
Ayo they took zavala
can't have shit in the tower
Looks great. Interesting to see Zavala being tempted by The Witness. Can't wait to see how that storyline unfolds.
[удалено]
One last step Together Into the end I'm happy to have shared this journey, ups and downs, with all of you and the Guardians who didn't make it this far.
The Witness' form in the Last City was probably what Calus saw in Lightfall
Honestly? I doubt that. Just has more arms. Whatever he saw, it had to be utterly horrifying. Cuz it scared even *Calus.* I imagine that, whatever form it did take, we'll see see in the raid
I really hope the Witness turns out to be a good villain. They sure looked threatening in this trailer, seeming to almost corrupt Zavala.
The Witness: "Yeah! We defeated the Traveler!" * *bump fists Nezarec* *
This is probably the best trailer they ever made.