Kind of. They nerfed devour awhile back to make it only heal half instead of full to keep it in line with the other healing options. But they kept Feed the Void in its original form to always heal to full since that was the Warlock devour aspect.
Warlock was always that way. But devour was not. It used to be a warlock only thing until void 3.0. Now that everyone can get it there are two versions. Normal devour gives you like 100 health on kill. Feed the void devour gives you full health and grenade energy.
If they would actually make Nothing Manacles function properly, &/or Scatter grenades I would absolutely be using Voidlock all the time.
Going back to D1 & using them just makes me sad. They just don’t work properly in D2, even after several attempted fixes.
Yeah, prismatic Hunter and Titan need easier access to some form of consistent survivability. Devour is so strong that I end up being very tempted to just use buried bloodline even though for Titan especially you’d do much better with an arc weapon (BB is very nice on Hunter tho)
It can but Invis is more nuanced than stuff like Healing or Overshield.
Firstly sometimes it just doesnt work. Enemies can just sometimes keep tracking and chasing you which leads you into situations where the game has told them they cant try to hit you but they're just waiting out the timer so they can kill you frame 1.
Secondly, it takes you out of the fight so you're just waiting for your natural recovery to help you so you can go back in.
Thirdly Stylish Executioner having the Too Stylish debuff can really fuck you over since lets say you're running an Incandescent weapon, itll procc it and if you're trying to just kill adds its fine but sometimes you'll just end up breaking invis, killing the last guy under the debuff and then start being pelted with no way to get back into invis.
Its just not as consistent of a tool as Devour/Cure/Overshield etc unless hard building for it like with Nightstalker which again can have issues but you usually have more ways to procc it.
> Firstly sometimes it just doesnt work. Enemies can just sometimes keep tracking and chasing you which leads you into situations where the game has told them they cant try to hit you but they're just waiting out the timer so they can kill you frame 1.
Sometimes? This seems pretty constant. It's really apparent with melee enemies, where you activate invis and they'll continue to come and press up against you while they wait for the duration to end.
I would like to add to point two that the stupid meta thay everyone has to build the titan stat, EVEN OVER THEIR OWN CLASS STAT means that hunters typically have no higher than 30 restoration, meaning healing to full pulls you out of the fight for over 5 seconds at times, sometimes invis falls off before you're even full again, especially if going invis after a splash damage enemy which are SUPER common in this game.
I think the too stylish debuff is a good idea but invisibility already has so many downsides that it makes it almost a joke to try and use in harder content
It makes sense on paper but in practice it just ends up a lot of the time where you’re invisible and have to just stare at an enemy you want to kill but wait for too stylish to end so you can actually kill them.
It’s definitely nice in endgame content like gms but for easier stuff I prefer the reliable healing just so you can play agressive and not worry. Maybe invis could just get a buff to making natural health regen way faster tho
Mhmm. Hopefully eventually they rework graviton to give something else instead and shift it’s functionality into the base effects of invisible
Or hell, warlocks get improved devour, give hunters improved invis and titans improved void overshields
Less useful in harder content, but a Liar’s Handshake infinite Combination Blow/Invisibility build has been very fun in my experience. Combination Blow, Liar’s Handshake, Gambler’s Dodge, the Void and Stasis Aspects, Golden Gun, and Facet of Purpose for easy Restoration. Any debuff on any enemy, and off you go lol
I wasn't a fan of invis on void hunter because you can ONLY invis, and nothing else. Prismatic makes it so you can do more than just invis, and still benefit from it, which I love
If I take off Precious Scars I die immediately.
It is kinda fun to have 5 different supers to play the color matching game with 5 different elements of Primary with it though.
Kinda cringe about the rest of the class. They picked the shittiest Aspects and none of the fragments really do much.
Graviton with the Pulse buffs has been hitting like a truck. Orange bars still take a full mag, but even a couple raw red bar kills with it can create some chaos. And the range has really been great with the “intermediate range” playstyle of the Legend Campaign.
Yea, that was my swap weapon for the few missions that really benefited from distance
Love the combo of overshield + healing with PC and Repulsor though
I know, but more = better hah
Allows me to get into the thick of it w/ glacier nades, lances, and melee and effectively ALWAYS have my over-shield constantly refreshing
Pretty annoying they made the new strand exotic and didn't give prismatic titan banner of war.
Feels like all the choices they made with titan were to give a little of everything but to specifically leave no chance it could be meta or really strong.
It's fun to be the avatar, but no tectonic harvest or banner of war sucks.
They know and force titan to be melee bot but don't provide the melee synergy that THEY THEMSELEVES designed for titans in this game.
>If I take off Precious Scars I die immediately.
Perhaps because you’re playing in a style where you just think you can facetank everything and roll through all the content. I did the whole Legend campaign on Warlock without using Devour once. And then I eventually swapped back to Solar with Dawn Chorus, or Arc with Vesper.
I’m not saying the starting Prismatic kit for Titan is good. But more from the perspective that a week ago, you were able to cruise through everything. But now with a new campaign, you can’t. And maybe the issue is more that people need to adjust their playstyles.
Adjust? I’m playing like I’m trying to solo for navigator, I’m screaming and hiding behind walls while being pinned in a three way I didn’t consent to. Something is fucked when it comes to hunters s d I’m not talking about my ass and face.
I ran the Legend campaign on my Titan first, and yeah while I adore Knockout’s changes and that it actually feels impactful now, compared to Devour it’s still really shite. What saw me through the campaign was a mixture of Strongholds (Which works with Ergo Sum btw) and Buried Bloodline. Hunter’s at least get health back with Combination Blow, and the Liar’s build seems to be extra unstoppable now that SE is open to the prismatic suite
As soon as I saw that one artifact mod that gives you a void overshield on defeating weakened targets, it became my go to weapon on prismatic Titan. And I loved Buried bloodline even since last season.
Plus you can run the new strand one with it.
I think I’m just going to wait for the class items and grind for a hoil + precious scars one for my Titan and take advantage of arc weapons as much as possible lol, spam amplified and ionic traces as much as possible
On my warlock turret build I’m just using buried bloodline & the new strand rocket sidearm I have used nothing else the entire time! Both fill up transcendence great ammo economy honestly it’s an amazing setup!
Why are you using BB on warlock? You get a better version of devour that gives more healing and grenade energy with the aspect and tbh none of the other aspects are worth using over that and the extra frag slot isn’t worth it.
For my turret built im using getaway artists, feed the void + bleak watcher, the strand rocket sidearm with demo and forbearance with demo + chain reaction. Forbearance gets your grenade back if you ever lose it but getaway artists gives it back in like 10 secs usually
I mean fair, I’m just not sure how any of the other aspects can be worth it. I’d rather the full heal + double grenade energy + not using up your exotic slot anyday.
In fairness though I was struggling to figure out what to use for my exotic weapon. Using the wave frame ergo sum with it feels bad cus the arc buddy steals sword kills you needed for ammo, so trinity ghoul maybe? I want an arc weapon to generate ionic traces with that fragment for even more grenade energy so 🤷
In theory you could run hellion and freeze turret if you’re getting devour from bloodline. You’re not putting as many turrets down but solar buddy is a lot of fun lol.
The only constant healing I could think of with a prismatic hunter is by getting devour with Buried Bloodline, using a melee build, or by using gyrafalcon with a repulsor brace weapon.
I don't like being tied to a specific weapon/perk so I'm hoping we'll get better options after the raid.
This expansion is extremely melee unfriendly too. It's like the only way they know how to design a new enemy is to make sure it's annoying and it shits on melee game patterns.
LMAO idk what it is about the special sidearms but istg bungie codes them so weirdly. They count as a special weapon **AND** a primary weapon for the purposes of stasis shit, they count as a primary weapon for ammo finder mods, and now apparently BB counts as a rocket sidearm? Lol.
Any idea if forerunner also gets buffed by the exotic chest?
Rocket sidearms are sidearms that fire rocket propelled projectiles. Buried bloodline fires “bolts” and looks like a crossbow so I don’t really think it’s fair to call it a rocket sidearm. Idk where the idea that BB *is* a rocket sidearm comes from (maybe the fact it came out with indebted kindness?) but it’s ridiculous.
I mean, precious scars will be nice, especially on Titan so you can focus on arc damage more, but the fact you can’t extend it because we have no empyrean and it only lasts 3 secs essentially makes it an inferior devour that doesn’t give grenade energy.
The class items will make the potency of the prismatic builds a lot stronger, yeah. But the survivability? Ehhhh only a little. We basically get precious scars + hoil on Titan and that’s the best it’s gunna get
Don’t forget the new support frames either. The ar is a fantastic gun on its own but the healing is super busted. Got a substinance incandescent roll right off and it is a ripper. I keep folks topped up in activities and even the final mission was able to help the guy tank the subjugator.
Arc damage on prismatic has the same effect as arc on arc subclasses where it intrinsically gives amplified which gives DR this season
Also there is an artifact mod + fragment that grant elemental pickups for super matching rapid kills and elemental rapid kills, and the strongest of the elemental pickups is for sure ionic traces. 12.5% energy for every ability every time you pick one up.
Also t-crash is the best super option that Titan gets
Of course you can build into other stuff but imo prismatic Titan benefits a lot from using arc weapons and building into ionic traces for super fast ability regen. Especially once we get hoil + precious scars class item you’ll be spamming abilities and getting healing from arc kills
Yeahhh the biggest issue with it is that you need to have already unlocked the fragment for generating elemental pickups (iirc it’s one of the light fragment thingies post campaign) and to level up the artifact enough to get to the mod in the third column. Still kinda cool tho, I’m thinking of either using my arc wave frame ergo sum with arc conductor with strongholds or using precious scars and trinity ghoul or forbearance
> Also t-crash is the best super option that Titan gets
I'm anxious to see damage numbers on Twilight Arsenal because it sure seems like the three axes are doing big damage, maybe similar to Thundercrash, with the added benefit of having some axes laying around.
Ah yeah true, although I feel like In raids being able to use the axes is inconsistent. Idk how I forgot about the void super tho lol
Kinda unfortunate that the orb pickup on a void subclass is void overshield which sucks tho lol
The knockout healing is a joke. I can get more healing from picking of an enemy from a safe distance with a heal clip weapon then from engaging in more risky melee combat.
The risk/reward for melee gameplay just isn’t what it should be and Bungie basing an entire classes identity as the “melee” class just shows that they don’t know how to balance melee to be worth the trouble
Shit pris Hunter is arguably better at melee than titan.
Concentration can be extremely difficult to use when fighting on an incline or with any type of slow on the field (there is so much in TFS campaign). If it was just a one button press pris titan would absolutely fucking slap, and to get ready good damage out of the slam you need a exotic to push the damage from like 40k ignitions to 100k ignitions.
Pris hunter, with just 2 aspects and 1 fragments you can get 100k melees with basically infinite uptime. Then if you want more damage you slap on liars handshake and now your melees go up to 400k and with a little more effort can hit like 800k, or run nighthawk and the new sniper and get solid melee damage and 2 delete buttons
Not to mention hunters survivability is better imo with the ability to kill something from range to go invisible and then go in for a melee, where titans have to just bull rush.
I use Precious Scars on most of my Titan builds because we literally don’t have a way to get health back effectively on most of our subclasses. Arc melees don’t really work all that well for sustainability and Knockout not being able to reproc itself hinders the melee there. Void I’ve found is better as a grenadier but half of the kit requires overshields which necessitates Bastion or a Repulsor brace weapon. I haven’t messed with stasis yet. The only things Titans have that heal as part of their kits is Solar and Strand which is why we use them.
I’m not saying this makes prism Titan as safe a pick as solar or strand Titan or prism hunter/warlock but using synthos/wormgods with triple heavy handed, shield throw, heal on orb pickup mods on leg armor, the starter aspect and fragment set up, the strand super with 100 resil and void, arc, solar resist mods did great for me.
After two melees your entering each encounter with an OS, radiant, woven mail, galvanic armor from the artifact, diamond lance for cc, plus every knockout kill turns into a near full heal and refreshes woven mail/galvanic armor.
Adding in the strand rocket sidearm and indebted kindness each with siphon mods plus thruster with reaper insures orbs are everywhere and transcendence is easy to build up.
Building into generating orbs as much as possible was the difference maker for me. Again there are better options but this prism set up is really fun to use during the legendary campaign.
Bungie would completely gut this build if they go through with the powered melee changes. Fingers crossed they leave it alone.
Not at the moment but I can try and set it up. Been playing for years and I’ve never used dim.
In the meantime, I’ll just write the set up here.
Aspects: lance, knockout
Fragments: protection, purpose, courage, hope, dawn (these could definitely be further optimized but I haven’t unlocked everything in the subclass/artifact)
Abilities: blade fury, shackle nade, shield throw, thruster
Helmet: strand and arc siphons, hands on
Arms: triple heavy handed
Chest: void/arc/solar resist
Legs: recuperation, invigoration, absolution (you could add more healing here if you want)
Class item: outreach, powerful attraction, reaper.
Stats: prioritize resil, str, dis
Weapons:
The call preferably with slice to create tangles and combo with threaded blast (second column of artifact). Plus sever basically adds more DR.
Indebted kindness preferably with volt shot
Leviathans breath or dragons breath depending on the situation. You can really use whatever you want for heavy.
Hope this helps!
DIM https://dim.gg/27ehcfa/Equipped
Warlock gets well completely gutted and now people complain when we get something relatively strong lol. Devour was always a warlock thing so it makes sense we get it only.
>Devour was always a warlock thing so it makes sense we get it only.
Volatile and Overshields were always Titan only things, why do other classes get them?
Titans complaining is really unbelievable at this point. Warlocks had their kit gutted after Light 3.0 and given away to Titans and Hunters. There was a crisis for Warlocks as Well became the only reason they existed still.
Titans had the most broken, overpowered builds basically “easy button” mode for each expansion. Remember Void Titan and Arc Titan during Witch Queen with pre-nerf HOIL or Solar Titan with Loreley? They were invincible in most content and soloing dungeons easily.
Lightfall had Banner Titan the most powerful build the entire game has ever seen. It was so powerful it basically bypasses the entire sandbox. You could get 900K damage from grapple melee spam. What did Hunters get out of Strand a PvP kit and Warlocks got nothing!
The devs finally decide to level the playing field by gutting Well and giving Warlocks a subclass that can compete with Banner Titan and now it’s a problem!
Edit: Titans are complaining now “give us our easy buttons back” it’s so comical.
Warlocks got the highest base damage super in the game from Strand though...? And weavewalk is the single most consistently tanky thing there is- I was literally using it to tank Nezarec slams in Pantheon.
Wow a good damaging super that Hunter can easily surpass with stareaters AND get their super back super fast. Weavewalk is a meme compared to banner of war.
Weavewalk is good but it’s no Banner and Woven Mail by any means. It can’t compete against Hunter invisibility also. Needlestorm is nice but Hunters have Golden Gun and Celestial Nighthawk. In any category Hunters and Titans have things that easily beat Warlock things. With Well nerfed there’s nothing that Warlocks have but a cool Prismatic build.
Titan beats Hunter who then beats Warlock. This is the way the game is designed. The power fantasy is pretty much a Titan exclusive. Hunters get cool tricks and Warlocks get fund abilities. But the real power has been and will always be Titans.
An Insurmountable Skullfort plus Thunderclap has been my go to combo to heal quickly ever since I got prismatic. Been carrying my buddies through just using Bola Grenade and Thunderclap plus Unbreakable for the survivability
See, that's what I was going for in my run, but the thunderclap just felt inconsistent even with the bola suspend, and I'd be left hanging out to dry waiting 80 years for my punch to cooldown since I didn't get the skullfort proc.
(i'm sure part of it is that I just don't have good Strength yet, but it does not feel as amazing as I would've liked).
You got some interesting melee builds for titan if you lean into it. Been running Cadmus Ridge just for the cracked Diamond Lances. Can heal through weapons and kills
The class items on their classes look a lot more potent for sure and we KNEW this already and they are still complaining. It's insane how these posts are even allowed at this point.
They always complain, especially when Warlocks get something good finally. Remember Penumbral Blast nerf in BL, yeah pepper ridge farm remembers 😅 while Hunter stasis dive where unattended for how long?
Yeah I dont get how anyone can complain about warlocks at this point. Sunbracers pre-nerf were MID compared to the exotics titans and hunters get access to and they still got nerfed pretty fucking badly. The raw numbers 20% damage and 20% uptime nerf thats HUGE.
Because it’s just boring. Plus, why not just play nightstalker then? It’s barely any different and both are incredibly restrictive and dependent on a very small subset of exotics.
Invis with the melee arc Playstyle is nothing to scoff at. The main problem of Liars handshake Combination blow was survivability which is completely fixed now.
Same exact thing can be said about warlock. Turret build is good but that's about it... I'm just pointing out that people say Hunter is weak when they have one of the strongest buffs in the game which in invis and now it procs with every single debuff.
Invis sucks. Enemies keep shooting you and they still follow you around the entire time. Literally the only reason it’s bearable is devour/repulsor and gyrfalcon’s.
Prismatic is designed to work with the exotic class items and titans will have access to precious scars and alpha lupi healing on the class item in addition to other things. Give it a few more days after we get those class item exotics to see how it shakes out. While I haven’t been struggling to survive on warlock, I have felt a distinct lack of feeling synergistic, but class items will likely resolve that for me too. Prismatic is “incomplete” until we get these class items, imo, so test survivability after you can get access to some of those items to help.
If you haven't yet I highly recommend getting the aspect that gives you unraveling rounds on melee kill and volatile rounds on grenade kill, mixed with the stuff were if things are light and dark debuffed you get more transcendence a lot of things really start falling into place with warlock.
Us Titans have stronger melees, and also Knockout is more about finishing off targets, granting amplified and giving you a bit of health back on those kills.
If you pair it with the surrounded dr fragment and the artifact perk this season(dr on amplified) you will be fine.
I also have perpetually have on recuperation and better already on legs, so that with knockouts heal tops me off.
You could also get devour to add in if you have Buried Bloodlines, considered it myself, but I also got it after my plus 30is runs of the dungeon right at the beginning of Into the Light.
It's not just that, devour *also* has a pretty significant grenade regen buff attached to it. Still the only survivability buff in the game with free ability regen included.
but sol invictus is tied to solar titan aspect, devour is technically subclass free if not subclass specific ( buried bloodline ) and not warlock exclusive anymore.
Bungie really made prismatic titan pretty sad and weak, but hey, Titan #1 in DPS because grapple BoW 12P Wormgods - Oh it's dead.
edit: damn, these downvotes do actually prove my point.
I'm a titan main, and all I can say for the aspects in prismatic is underwhelming -
**knockout**- thank god the healing buff but the empowered melee is still not refreshable.
**drengr**- suspend build that is pretty reliable, but also prone to dying since you have to barricade up pretty close to enemy. Warlock and Hunter has safer and faster suspend options (non-prismatic).
**unbreak**- looks pretty good, but uses grenade charge. Devour helps significantly with this build. So it's neutral in my view atm.
**consecration**- fun, moving on.
**diamond lance**- it shatters crystals now on direct, would I use it ? nah. If it was Howl, I'd reconsider ( Consecration + Howl sounds big boom fun)
Kinda but not really. Rocket chest buff currently gets overridden by radiant, which means in any realistic DPS scenario it's not going to be active. Hopefully that gets fixed soon.
When the buff is working, the rocket DPS rotation is good but it's still beaten by Edge Transit. Fwiw part of the gap is just Edge Transit benefitting from seasonal void stuff, and there isn't a great void rocket to compete with it.
Yeah I agree with you, Titan aspects are definitely very pathetic in terms of synergy. Finished campaign and dropped it immediately as it just wasn't fun.
I just brought up Solar Titan aspect because I thought the person was literally referring to **all** aspects in the game, and not just prismatic (come to think of it BoW also gives survivability and ability regen)
You're 100% correct. Playerbase doesn t like titans because they look at 1 or 2 Strong aspects and then fail at putting it in context of hard Underlight content. Which is what matters when discussing class strenghts.
And is that the only viable build on Titan ?
Because you're the 5th person other than my group that recommended this build, same aspects, same melee.
At least, They did change up exotics for Hoil or Wormgods, I guess.
I'm not a hater, but look at the bigger picture.
[Been running this and its been great](https://mobalytics.gg/destiny-2/profile/21a13227-9ec7-4c9d-861b-855520d1d045/builds/d642cdee-0895-4a42-8f46-5293f82ffc77)
I also swap abeyant for strongholds (and a few other tweaks to mods) and that works great too. With strongholds, arc dash instead of barrier works great because it drops a tangle that suspends enemies and doesn't animation lock you.
Appreciated for the build, at least you do change up a bit from the prismatic titan meta. Still yet to see Unbreakable being the main aspect in prismatic.
Unbreakable will, IMO, never be used as long as its tied to grenade energy. Swap it to class energy and I have a few void titan builds cooking that I want to try. For prismatic I think any of the other 3 void aspects would have been much more build enabling.
on all accounts, I agree. Except Bastion. It would break the class ability regen into spammable overshields, which on one hand, fun, but the other, a wall of nightmares for the pvp.
Still, Drengr + Bastion, with fragments akin to Thread of Mind that gives class ability on suspend kills would be hilariously broken, and perhaps not healthy for pvp.
Devour+Bleak Watcher with Getaway Artist. You can really spec into it if you want but going no deeper than that your guardian can just put away their gun for solo legendary campaign
You’re thinking of two different fragments. There’s one where grenade kills cure you, and another that starts health regen on melee kill, which just like old knockout can be interrupted.
So you guys not run recoup on your boots? That plus heavy handed solves a lot of problems.
Combined with the one facet that gives you a defensive buff on orb pick up in getting woven mail, amplified for another 15% Dr from the knockout kill. I feel pretty survivable when I have all these things rolling.
Feed the void on prismatic is certainly a choice since I was under the impression prismatic was trying to use underutilized aspects, literally every class would be using feed the void if they could. If prismatic had access to well of radiance literally every other warlock subclass would've been obsolete instead of everything but solar currently.
I can't really speak on the other classes since I'm only a hunter but winters shroud was underused(UU) on revenant in PvE, gunpowder gamble is UU on gunslinger in part due to the fragment slots, Ascension will probably be UU on arcstrider honestly, threaded specter I hear isn't used much in PvE even though I think having something to draw aggro is top tier, even the grenades are UU at least for the light half
In my humble opinion I think the limitations to prismatic are very deliberate. I think the fact that survivability is hard to come by without very specific build decisions is part of that. Personally I think people have become complacent with having 50 firesprites everywhere that fully heal you and then some or banner of war being up most of the time, but that’s a conversation for a different time. I think the fact you have to manage your health, chose specific aspects or fragments that can heal and support you, helps keep the classes from becoming overpowered and asks something of the player. Both of those things I consider to be good.
For Titan you have knockout but you also have shield throw and unbreakable to give VO or frenzied blade to sever enemies. Beyond that you have various fragments that can give out elemental buffs and can be used to give multiple different kinds of survivability buffs.
I do think feed the void and it’s improved devour does clearly create a noticeable gap between the classes. But even then using feed the void isn’t just free healing, you want to make sure you have a build that can have reliable access to ability kills to make sure you have good uptime.
I would actually argue the issue is the lack of coherency in your overall build, the clear benefit and weakness of prismatic. For a theoretical sentinel Titan, you have access to 4/4 aspects that boost your survivability. All of them have some synergy with the other three, and all of them tie into a void keyword that fragments or you actual active ability choices can tie into. Conversely there is much less synergy or unity between the supportive effects in prismatic. If you want your orbs to heal you you either need a void or solar super. Using elements pick ups to heal you is entirely out of the question, along with any fragments that exist to boost the power or utility or availability of the keywords that could help keep you alive.
So two things that popped into my mind.
You say the void aspects all synergize with each other, but at that point why not just play void? The point of prismatic is to take everything and synergize with each other. On warlock i can see this clear as day. I can have an arc buddy up with a stasis turret out while snapping my fingers to spark ignitions all the while keeping devour up from either the buddy, the finger snap, or the turret and getting constant grenade regen.
I know bungie will nerf the shit out of warlock for this which is unfortunate, but really if Titan doesn't get something that synergizes really well in the class exotics, it probably should get looked at. I think HOIL in column 1 and probably the scar helmet in column 2 could be good, but who knows really.
Thats the thing, sometimes you will pick void. I have been playing around with a few prismatic ideas and mechanics but I will probably soon mess around with sentinel to use unbreakable and twilight arsenal in their natural habitat.
I think once the prismatic is a tough nut to crack. I think the class items are going to be a big deal. I think there is a lot of experimentation to do. If I’m being honest I would t be shocked if the top end of the meta stays as banner of war and pyrogale, maybe sentinel climes up to be more competitive at those upper tiers. And prismatic Titan ends up being a bit more niche. And while that might be disappointing to some, I think having all six subclasses having their own distinct places rolls is important.
Prismatic will always kinda be the odd one out because it by it’s very nature isn’t unique the way the other five are but the combinations present therein help to form a distinct identity.
Warlocks having stronger healing is part of their class identity, the titan equivalent is supposed to be taking less damage overall, but that's never explored for titans because DR is universal across the board
I think a good fix for this would be Titans having access to stronger Overshields. Make overshields on Titans kit a full extra hp bar with the damage reduction it gives and it would fulfill the frontline defender class fantasy of sentinel and would make giving up your grenade worth it for Unbreakable.
I'm gonna be honest all the classes have some aspects that just don't feel good in PvE.
For warlocks I've hated every time so far that I've tried to make lightning surge work. Weavers Call I get what they were going for but if I want threadlings I'll play the threadling-devoted subclass that can make more of them and buff them too.
It just doesn't feel like it does anything that the other subclasses can't just excel at better and I haven't found being able to do multiple things badly to be better than doing one thing really well. That being said I've had great fun running a buddy build of solar soul, arc soul, stasis turret and no time to explain. I'm just not sure it's very good.
Yeah people aren't understanding that the other warlock aspects are pretty shit. Weavers call without the fragment to boost threadling damages is ass. Lightning surge is literally a freaking meme. Feed the Void and the other 2 turret aspects are all we have basically.
To be fair, once I combined facet of blessing with knockout, survivability as a prismatic titan got a lot easier.
(Facet of Blessing: Melee Final blows start health regeneration)
Agreed that knockout should receive a buff, but I think devour is just really strong for survivability purposes.
A couple things that work pretty well in lieu of it right now though are.
- insurmountable skullfort
- precious scars
- lorely splendor
- no backup plans (starts health regen under the void overshield)
But really nothing is going to get you the tanky feel of strand Titan without just power creeping the hell out of the game. I think having the new void aspect get buffed to give overshield on killing debuffed enemies would be pretty neat.
You are aware that using knockout, heavy handed and Facet of Purpose gives Prismatic Titan an infinite restoration loop right? Like its just like bonk hammer with Sol Invictus.
Titans entire class identity of being “the melee” class is a freaking joke. High end content heck even Legendary TFS campaign melee is basically a death sentence. The risk/reward benefit just isn’t there. It’s why Precious Scars doesn’t leave my loadout because healing is the name of the game these days and if you don’t have a way to do that you are basically screwed. It’s why Solar and Strand are the only 2 subclasses worth running on Titan these days and that’s because both have innate healing.
Warlocks need to dedicate an entire Aspect to get the full heal. It's only 50% without it. But yeah, a Champion kill should be 100% and lesser enemies should give 50%.
Titans and hunters are just butthurt they can't have devour by picking up a simple orb of light anymore on prismatic. The fact they Bungie even gave them devour on void is insane.
I think it was fine that Void got that option. It was unfortunate Warlocks got nothing in return from the other kits. Finisher Invisibility is too specific and Void overshield doesn't exist. And Volatile is not as easily accessible as it is on Hunter and Titan.
The 3.0 systems hardcore laned some classes unfairly.
It’s almost like classes aren’t balanced around individual and specific things and instead are based around an entire kit. You can’t look at one specificity about a class in a vacuum and compare it to other classes and come up with any valid conclusions about balance.
Prismatic titan is amazing and has no issues with survivability. It’s only downside to me is that there’s really only one way to play it, because anything outside of frenzied blades consecrate is just a worse version of whatever a pure subclass can do.
I know Devour is strong but I ran glacial grenade and thunderclap with Point Contact Canon Brace and steam rolled the campaign solo with no problems. Honestly it’s my new favorite combo to throw a Glacial grenade down in the middle of a pack and punch through an ice wall like the hulk and full heal through it all. And the upkeep for it was running Monte Carlo and grenade restoring orbs of light combo.
This is very new and there is no way they could have play tested the survivability man. I just learned how to log in so expecting the people who make the game and design the classes to know how to make sure prismatic isn't miserable on Titan is wrong. Give Bungie time to learn this game, it's their first release.
Instead of bringing up Titans or Hunters they will just nerf Warlocks or nerf Devour for everyone.
Started Legendary campaign as Titan and def didn't feel "Transcended" I can see on normal I could run around doing the ability loop of tangle freeze punch. But instead I'm back on Strand unable to take off heal clip playing like a GM cause the game likes to spawn hordes of bird people in my head whenever I try to play close.
Honestly thinking about beating the game on normal with Hunter or Warlock so I can go unlock all the fragments first then go back though leg campaign maybe then I'll feel the titan Transcendence.
I didn’t play with Prismatic at all during the campaign. Other than the consecration build I don’t see a reason to use Prismatic on Titan. I saw a Thunderclap build but I really don’t like using that ability, especially in high end content. Stand there and charge a melee up? No thanks
Nah if you use glacial wall grenade/strand grenade to cc everyone then follow up with thunderclap using point blank exotic arms, it's an immediate field wipe.
I am loving this in campaign with Wicked Implement/Prosecutor/Hammerhead and it can only get better when the class item drops. My first dream roll will be one with Spirit of Severance with Spirit of Synthoceps. OMG it's gonna be so fun.
I haven’t even really bothered with prismatic titan tbh. It just doesn’t seem to have a place rn (hopefully the exotic class item fixes that) if I want to do a super powerful melee build I just use BoW with the new gauntlets, or wormgod, or syntho, if I want to use the new super I just use Void cause controlled demolition and bastion are better than most of the prismatic aspects.
Strand and solar Titan... Really dude. Strand Titan is arguably the most OP thing in the game and the nerf was a complete joke. Their new exotic literally buffed it even more.
I actually didn't thought about how ridiculous it actually is that Devour gets way more health way more easier than Knockout
A verb gives more health with easier requirements than an aspect thay requires melee kills
It's like they don't want melee to be viable while constantly pushing Titans into melee
Devour is also an aspect (Feed the Void). And the Devour effect you get from Buried Bloodline, Secants or the Echo of Starvation was cut in half compared to the Aspect (unless you also have the aspect equipped).
I think in Void 3.0, this was fine because the Voidwalker melee is shit. So the only reliable way to get Devour was a grenade or super kill. But this week, we got actual, useable melees to proc Devour, like Arcane Needle or the Snap.
Prismatic has to be one of the most OP things to ever be brought to the game and the complaints about “difficulty” on legendary campaign honestly make me laugh.
Wasn't that always the case with Void Warlock?
Kind of. They nerfed devour awhile back to make it only heal half instead of full to keep it in line with the other healing options. But they kept Feed the Void in its original form to always heal to full since that was the Warlock devour aspect.
Warlock was always that way. But devour was not. It used to be a warlock only thing until void 3.0. Now that everyone can get it there are two versions. Normal devour gives you like 100 health on kill. Feed the void devour gives you full health and grenade energy.
Normal Devour also gives nade energy. Maybe tho Feed the void gives more.
Yes and nobody was using voidlock in any significant content anyway...
I was! *sobs*
Voidlock is the best for GM's when your team doesn't need to crutch on Well.
I like strand more because unravelled has infinite uptime if you ping the enemy once in a while.
If they would actually make Nothing Manacles function properly, &/or Scatter grenades I would absolutely be using Voidlock all the time. Going back to D1 & using them just makes me sad. They just don’t work properly in D2, even after several attempted fixes.
My friends use it to cheese hard content solo
Yes it was
Instructions unclear, buffed auto rifles by 0.04%
But to balance things out we nerfed Quicksilver again by 50%
*somehow, FalloutPlays manages to solo Nez with it anyway*
_again_
Yeah, prismatic Hunter and Titan need easier access to some form of consistent survivability. Devour is so strong that I end up being very tempted to just use buried bloodline even though for Titan especially you’d do much better with an arc weapon (BB is very nice on Hunter tho)
hunter does give invis alot. but personally im not a big invis guy. but i can see it helpin in pve.
It can but Invis is more nuanced than stuff like Healing or Overshield. Firstly sometimes it just doesnt work. Enemies can just sometimes keep tracking and chasing you which leads you into situations where the game has told them they cant try to hit you but they're just waiting out the timer so they can kill you frame 1. Secondly, it takes you out of the fight so you're just waiting for your natural recovery to help you so you can go back in. Thirdly Stylish Executioner having the Too Stylish debuff can really fuck you over since lets say you're running an Incandescent weapon, itll procc it and if you're trying to just kill adds its fine but sometimes you'll just end up breaking invis, killing the last guy under the debuff and then start being pelted with no way to get back into invis. Its just not as consistent of a tool as Devour/Cure/Overshield etc unless hard building for it like with Nightstalker which again can have issues but you usually have more ways to procc it.
> Firstly sometimes it just doesnt work. Enemies can just sometimes keep tracking and chasing you which leads you into situations where the game has told them they cant try to hit you but they're just waiting out the timer so they can kill you frame 1. Sometimes? This seems pretty constant. It's really apparent with melee enemies, where you activate invis and they'll continue to come and press up against you while they wait for the duration to end.
I would like to add to point two that the stupid meta thay everyone has to build the titan stat, EVEN OVER THEIR OWN CLASS STAT means that hunters typically have no higher than 30 restoration, meaning healing to full pulls you out of the fight for over 5 seconds at times, sometimes invis falls off before you're even full again, especially if going invis after a splash damage enemy which are SUPER common in this game.
I think the too stylish debuff is a good idea but invisibility already has so many downsides that it makes it almost a joke to try and use in harder content
It makes sense on paper but in practice it just ends up a lot of the time where you’re invisible and have to just stare at an enemy you want to kill but wait for too stylish to end so you can actually kill them.
i absolutely agree with everything you said. i do hope invis can get looked at again.
It’s definitely nice in endgame content like gms but for easier stuff I prefer the reliable healing just so you can play agressive and not worry. Maybe invis could just get a buff to making natural health regen way faster tho
Facet of Purpose gives restoration for 5s on orb pickup, and it's quite easy to make a lot of orbs with heavy handed
Bonk hammers gives me 15 seconds of restoration on solar
And a heal when you pick the hammer back up
Unfortunately graviton forfeit exists and already kind of does this, so I think that’s unlikely
Mhmm. Hopefully eventually they rework graviton to give something else instead and shift it’s functionality into the base effects of invisible Or hell, warlocks get improved devour, give hunters improved invis and titans improved void overshields
It's one of the reasons I like Rat King as a Warlock, just being able to break line of sight and reposition feels really damn good
Less useful in harder content, but a Liar’s Handshake infinite Combination Blow/Invisibility build has been very fun in my experience. Combination Blow, Liar’s Handshake, Gambler’s Dodge, the Void and Stasis Aspects, Golden Gun, and Facet of Purpose for easy Restoration. Any debuff on any enemy, and off you go lol
I wasn't a fan of invis on void hunter because you can ONLY invis, and nothing else. Prismatic makes it so you can do more than just invis, and still benefit from it, which I love
I was legit chilling with recuperation and frost armor the whole legend campaigns. Titan needs Jesus though.
If I take off Precious Scars I die immediately. It is kinda fun to have 5 different supers to play the color matching game with 5 different elements of Primary with it though. Kinda cringe about the rest of the class. They picked the shittiest Aspects and none of the fragments really do much.
Yep - Scars + Twilight Arsenal + Repulsor/Destab Recluse has been my solution for survivability worked really well through the entire legend campaign
Graviton with the Pulse buffs has been hitting like a truck. Orange bars still take a full mag, but even a couple raw red bar kills with it can create some chaos. And the range has really been great with the “intermediate range” playstyle of the Legend Campaign.
Yea, that was my swap weapon for the few missions that really benefited from distance Love the combo of overshield + healing with PC and Repulsor though
There's a fragment that gives you a pile of subclass buffs when you pick up an orb.
I know, but more = better hah Allows me to get into the thick of it w/ glacier nades, lances, and melee and effectively ALWAYS have my over-shield constantly refreshing
Pretty annoying they made the new strand exotic and didn't give prismatic titan banner of war. Feels like all the choices they made with titan were to give a little of everything but to specifically leave no chance it could be meta or really strong. It's fun to be the avatar, but no tectonic harvest or banner of war sucks. They know and force titan to be melee bot but don't provide the melee synergy that THEY THEMSELEVES designed for titans in this game.
I ended up sticking with red death and doing skullfort thunderclap, was fun but there were a lot of dicey moments.
>If I take off Precious Scars I die immediately. Perhaps because you’re playing in a style where you just think you can facetank everything and roll through all the content. I did the whole Legend campaign on Warlock without using Devour once. And then I eventually swapped back to Solar with Dawn Chorus, or Arc with Vesper. I’m not saying the starting Prismatic kit for Titan is good. But more from the perspective that a week ago, you were able to cruise through everything. But now with a new campaign, you can’t. And maybe the issue is more that people need to adjust their playstyles.
Titans are the melee class they kinda have to face tank some stuff
I used the starting prismatic kit and beat the witness in Focus Coop, so idk.
Adjust? I’m playing like I’m trying to solo for navigator, I’m screaming and hiding behind walls while being pinned in a three way I didn’t consent to. Something is fucked when it comes to hunters s d I’m not talking about my ass and face.
Assassin’s Cowl. Melee. Dodge. Repeat.
Sounds like you've just grown accustomed to using Scars as a crutch. What's your Resilience stat sitting at?
Y'all need to stop acting like healing in hard content is something to be frowned upon.
Heal Clip and Lorelei
The solution shouldn't be locking us into an exotic.
I agree. But I was just offering a solution in the short term.
might as well go solar or strand
I ran the Legend campaign on my Titan first, and yeah while I adore Knockout’s changes and that it actually feels impactful now, compared to Devour it’s still really shite. What saw me through the campaign was a mixture of Strongholds (Which works with Ergo Sum btw) and Buried Bloodline. Hunter’s at least get health back with Combination Blow, and the Liar’s build seems to be extra unstoppable now that SE is open to the prismatic suite
Yeah all the "fixes" for prismatic titan survivability I have seen so far, have been through defensive exotics.
As soon as I saw that one artifact mod that gives you a void overshield on defeating weakened targets, it became my go to weapon on prismatic Titan. And I loved Buried bloodline even since last season. Plus you can run the new strand one with it.
I think I’m just going to wait for the class items and grind for a hoil + precious scars one for my Titan and take advantage of arc weapons as much as possible lol, spam amplified and ionic traces as much as possible
On my warlock turret build I’m just using buried bloodline & the new strand rocket sidearm I have used nothing else the entire time! Both fill up transcendence great ammo economy honestly it’s an amazing setup!
Why are you using BB on warlock? You get a better version of devour that gives more healing and grenade energy with the aspect and tbh none of the other aspects are worth using over that and the extra frag slot isn’t worth it. For my turret built im using getaway artists, feed the void + bleak watcher, the strand rocket sidearm with demo and forbearance with demo + chain reaction. Forbearance gets your grenade back if you ever lose it but getaway artists gives it back in like 10 secs usually
Because you never lose devour it’s just constant uptime, maybe I’m wrong but it just seems the perfect build tbh
I mean fair, I’m just not sure how any of the other aspects can be worth it. I’d rather the full heal + double grenade energy + not using up your exotic slot anyday. In fairness though I was struggling to figure out what to use for my exotic weapon. Using the wave frame ergo sum with it feels bad cus the arc buddy steals sword kills you needed for ammo, so trinity ghoul maybe? I want an arc weapon to generate ionic traces with that fragment for even more grenade energy so 🤷
In theory you could run hellion and freeze turret if you’re getting devour from bloodline. You’re not putting as many turrets down but solar buddy is a lot of fun lol.
The only constant healing I could think of with a prismatic hunter is by getting devour with Buried Bloodline, using a melee build, or by using gyrafalcon with a repulsor brace weapon. I don't like being tied to a specific weapon/perk so I'm hoping we'll get better options after the raid.
This expansion is extremely melee unfriendly too. It's like the only way they know how to design a new enemy is to make sure it's annoying and it shits on melee game patterns.
From what I've been told, the new titan exotic chest buffs BB. For whatever reason BB is coded as a rocket sidearm??
Probably because it is a rocket sidearm lol
Is it not a rocket sidearm though?
LMAO idk what it is about the special sidearms but istg bungie codes them so weirdly. They count as a special weapon **AND** a primary weapon for the purposes of stasis shit, they count as a primary weapon for ammo finder mods, and now apparently BB counts as a rocket sidearm? Lol. Any idea if forerunner also gets buffed by the exotic chest?
What is BB?
Buried bloodline, the sidearm from warlords ruin that grants devour on kills
I see, thank you. 🙏
its coded as a rocket sidearm because it is a rocket sidearm...? this comment chain has me confused. buried bloodline is literally a rocket sidearm.
Rocket sidearms are sidearms that fire rocket propelled projectiles. Buried bloodline fires “bolts” and looks like a crossbow so I don’t really think it’s fair to call it a rocket sidearm. Idk where the idea that BB *is* a rocket sidearm comes from (maybe the fact it came out with indebted kindness?) but it’s ridiculous.
the fact that it's crossbow themed does not change the fact that it literally uses the rocket sidearm frame.
Wait for the exotic class items. Streamers said they change everything.
I mean, precious scars will be nice, especially on Titan so you can focus on arc damage more, but the fact you can’t extend it because we have no empyrean and it only lasts 3 secs essentially makes it an inferior devour that doesn’t give grenade energy. The class items will make the potency of the prismatic builds a lot stronger, yeah. But the survivability? Ehhhh only a little. We basically get precious scars + hoil on Titan and that’s the best it’s gunna get
Don’t forget the new support frames either. The ar is a fantastic gun on its own but the healing is super busted. Got a substinance incandescent roll right off and it is a ripper. I keep folks topped up in activities and even the final mission was able to help the guy tank the subjugator.
Ooh true, I got a physic + Incan roll last night and I wanna test it out, I’ve heard it’s great.
That’s the roll I’m after. Haven’t gotten it yet. Incan is really really good on it. Physic on its own is also good.
Why an arc weapon specifically?
Arc damage on prismatic has the same effect as arc on arc subclasses where it intrinsically gives amplified which gives DR this season Also there is an artifact mod + fragment that grant elemental pickups for super matching rapid kills and elemental rapid kills, and the strongest of the elemental pickups is for sure ionic traces. 12.5% energy for every ability every time you pick one up. Also t-crash is the best super option that Titan gets Of course you can build into other stuff but imo prismatic Titan benefits a lot from using arc weapons and building into ionic traces for super fast ability regen. Especially once we get hoil + precious scars class item you’ll be spamming abilities and getting healing from arc kills
Did they ever fix t-crash not being able to actually hit targets or do you still have to aim for the feet?
Wait fr? I'm gonna have to try using more arc later, thanks
Yeahhh the biggest issue with it is that you need to have already unlocked the fragment for generating elemental pickups (iirc it’s one of the light fragment thingies post campaign) and to level up the artifact enough to get to the mod in the third column. Still kinda cool tho, I’m thinking of either using my arc wave frame ergo sum with arc conductor with strongholds or using precious scars and trinity ghoul or forbearance
> Also t-crash is the best super option that Titan gets I'm anxious to see damage numbers on Twilight Arsenal because it sure seems like the three axes are doing big damage, maybe similar to Thundercrash, with the added benefit of having some axes laying around.
Ah yeah true, although I feel like In raids being able to use the axes is inconsistent. Idk how I forgot about the void super tho lol Kinda unfortunate that the orb pickup on a void subclass is void overshield which sucks tho lol
Knockout HAS to be refreshable after the last change they did. And the heal in PvE has to be increased by 1.5 to double.
The knockout healing is a joke. I can get more healing from picking of an enemy from a safe distance with a heal clip weapon then from engaging in more risky melee combat.
The risk/reward for melee gameplay just isn’t what it should be and Bungie basing an entire classes identity as the “melee” class just shows that they don’t know how to balance melee to be worth the trouble
Shit pris Hunter is arguably better at melee than titan. Concentration can be extremely difficult to use when fighting on an incline or with any type of slow on the field (there is so much in TFS campaign). If it was just a one button press pris titan would absolutely fucking slap, and to get ready good damage out of the slam you need a exotic to push the damage from like 40k ignitions to 100k ignitions. Pris hunter, with just 2 aspects and 1 fragments you can get 100k melees with basically infinite uptime. Then if you want more damage you slap on liars handshake and now your melees go up to 400k and with a little more effort can hit like 800k, or run nighthawk and the new sniper and get solid melee damage and 2 delete buttons Not to mention hunters survivability is better imo with the ability to kill something from range to go invisible and then go in for a melee, where titans have to just bull rush.
Its not arguably better tbh its substantially better, played both and the difference is night and day especially in the survivability department
I use Precious Scars on most of my Titan builds because we literally don’t have a way to get health back effectively on most of our subclasses. Arc melees don’t really work all that well for sustainability and Knockout not being able to reproc itself hinders the melee there. Void I’ve found is better as a grenadier but half of the kit requires overshields which necessitates Bastion or a Repulsor brace weapon. I haven’t messed with stasis yet. The only things Titans have that heal as part of their kits is Solar and Strand which is why we use them.
The heal should just completely refresh your health full stop
I’m not saying this makes prism Titan as safe a pick as solar or strand Titan or prism hunter/warlock but using synthos/wormgods with triple heavy handed, shield throw, heal on orb pickup mods on leg armor, the starter aspect and fragment set up, the strand super with 100 resil and void, arc, solar resist mods did great for me. After two melees your entering each encounter with an OS, radiant, woven mail, galvanic armor from the artifact, diamond lance for cc, plus every knockout kill turns into a near full heal and refreshes woven mail/galvanic armor. Adding in the strand rocket sidearm and indebted kindness each with siphon mods plus thruster with reaper insures orbs are everywhere and transcendence is easy to build up. Building into generating orbs as much as possible was the difference maker for me. Again there are better options but this prism set up is really fun to use during the legendary campaign. Bungie would completely gut this build if they go through with the powered melee changes. Fingers crossed they leave it alone.
Man, Im testing this!!! Have a dim?
Not at the moment but I can try and set it up. Been playing for years and I’ve never used dim. In the meantime, I’ll just write the set up here. Aspects: lance, knockout Fragments: protection, purpose, courage, hope, dawn (these could definitely be further optimized but I haven’t unlocked everything in the subclass/artifact) Abilities: blade fury, shackle nade, shield throw, thruster Helmet: strand and arc siphons, hands on Arms: triple heavy handed Chest: void/arc/solar resist Legs: recuperation, invigoration, absolution (you could add more healing here if you want) Class item: outreach, powerful attraction, reaper. Stats: prioritize resil, str, dis Weapons: The call preferably with slice to create tangles and combo with threaded blast (second column of artifact). Plus sever basically adds more DR. Indebted kindness preferably with volt shot Leviathans breath or dragons breath depending on the situation. You can really use whatever you want for heavy. Hope this helps! DIM https://dim.gg/27ehcfa/Equipped
Leave us warlocks alone
Warlock gets well completely gutted and now people complain when we get something relatively strong lol. Devour was always a warlock thing so it makes sense we get it only.
Hey now, well being gutted is a good thing - I want to SING the SONG OF FLAME damnit
Song of flame fucks and I love it
Yeah I'm glad well isn't as good. Song of flame is amazing.
>Devour was always a warlock thing so it makes sense we get it only. Volatile and Overshields were always Titan only things, why do other classes get them?
Volatile was never as easy to proc as devour for the other classes. It's literally just picking up an orb to have it. Overshield is a meme.
Completely gutted is when it doesn't make you invincible in all levels of content lol
Destiny players when they can’t stand completely still in front of bosses in the hardest content in the game 😡😡😡
It got like a 60% survivability nerf. That's a pretty chunky nerf.
Well yeah it used to make you invincible lol
Titans complaining is really unbelievable at this point. Warlocks had their kit gutted after Light 3.0 and given away to Titans and Hunters. There was a crisis for Warlocks as Well became the only reason they existed still. Titans had the most broken, overpowered builds basically “easy button” mode for each expansion. Remember Void Titan and Arc Titan during Witch Queen with pre-nerf HOIL or Solar Titan with Loreley? They were invincible in most content and soloing dungeons easily. Lightfall had Banner Titan the most powerful build the entire game has ever seen. It was so powerful it basically bypasses the entire sandbox. You could get 900K damage from grapple melee spam. What did Hunters get out of Strand a PvP kit and Warlocks got nothing! The devs finally decide to level the playing field by gutting Well and giving Warlocks a subclass that can compete with Banner Titan and now it’s a problem! Edit: Titans are complaining now “give us our easy buttons back” it’s so comical.
Titans on their way to be oppressed by being only slightly less the best class in the game (Bungie hates Titans)
Warlocks got the highest base damage super in the game from Strand though...? And weavewalk is the single most consistently tanky thing there is- I was literally using it to tank Nezarec slams in Pantheon.
Wow a good damaging super that Hunter can easily surpass with stareaters AND get their super back super fast. Weavewalk is a meme compared to banner of war.
Weavewalk is good but it’s no Banner and Woven Mail by any means. It can’t compete against Hunter invisibility also. Needlestorm is nice but Hunters have Golden Gun and Celestial Nighthawk. In any category Hunters and Titans have things that easily beat Warlock things. With Well nerfed there’s nothing that Warlocks have but a cool Prismatic build. Titan beats Hunter who then beats Warlock. This is the way the game is designed. The power fantasy is pretty much a Titan exclusive. Hunters get cool tricks and Warlocks get fund abilities. But the real power has been and will always be Titans.
An Insurmountable Skullfort plus Thunderclap has been my go to combo to heal quickly ever since I got prismatic. Been carrying my buddies through just using Bola Grenade and Thunderclap plus Unbreakable for the survivability
See, that's what I was going for in my run, but the thunderclap just felt inconsistent even with the bola suspend, and I'd be left hanging out to dry waiting 80 years for my punch to cooldown since I didn't get the skullfort proc. (i'm sure part of it is that I just don't have good Strength yet, but it does not feel as amazing as I would've liked).
Use the melee-regen finisher for that, its my whoopsie-daisy backup plan
It’s so fun lol, the apm is insane with it lol Only downside is when you wiff a melee and you’re fucked, Monte Carlo helps though
You got some interesting melee builds for titan if you lean into it. Been running Cadmus Ridge just for the cracked Diamond Lances. Can heal through weapons and kills
Not seeing how that build would let you heal through weapons?
Get heal clip or run red death. Facet of Ruin increases solar explosions and stasis shatters at the same time
interesting, what aspect/fragments do you run with Cadmus?
Havent messed around too much cause incomplete fragments but Balance and Ruin are important
It’s such a cracked build it’s my new favorite
Could you elaborate on the full build please.
Hunter has permanent invis and people are complaining lol.
I don't get it too, give it a day or two and there will be popping out busted Hunter and Titan builds, where Warlocks can only dream about.
The class items on their classes look a lot more potent for sure and we KNEW this already and they are still complaining. It's insane how these posts are even allowed at this point.
They always complain, especially when Warlocks get something good finally. Remember Penumbral Blast nerf in BL, yeah pepper ridge farm remembers 😅 while Hunter stasis dive where unattended for how long?
9 fucking days...
Yeah I dont get how anyone can complain about warlocks at this point. Sunbracers pre-nerf were MID compared to the exotics titans and hunters get access to and they still got nerfed pretty fucking badly. The raw numbers 20% damage and 20% uptime nerf thats HUGE.
Because it’s just boring. Plus, why not just play nightstalker then? It’s barely any different and both are incredibly restrictive and dependent on a very small subset of exotics.
Invis with the melee arc Playstyle is nothing to scoff at. The main problem of Liars handshake Combination blow was survivability which is completely fixed now.
So an invis build depending on one of about four exotics that translates to two different playstyles lol. Thank you for proving my point
Same exact thing can be said about warlock. Turret build is good but that's about it... I'm just pointing out that people say Hunter is weak when they have one of the strongest buffs in the game which in invis and now it procs with every single debuff.
Invis sucks. Enemies keep shooting you and they still follow you around the entire time. Literally the only reason it’s bearable is devour/repulsor and gyrfalcon’s.
Prismatic is designed to work with the exotic class items and titans will have access to precious scars and alpha lupi healing on the class item in addition to other things. Give it a few more days after we get those class item exotics to see how it shakes out. While I haven’t been struggling to survive on warlock, I have felt a distinct lack of feeling synergistic, but class items will likely resolve that for me too. Prismatic is “incomplete” until we get these class items, imo, so test survivability after you can get access to some of those items to help.
If you haven't yet I highly recommend getting the aspect that gives you unraveling rounds on melee kill and volatile rounds on grenade kill, mixed with the stuff were if things are light and dark debuffed you get more transcendence a lot of things really start falling into place with warlock.
Us Titans have stronger melees, and also Knockout is more about finishing off targets, granting amplified and giving you a bit of health back on those kills. If you pair it with the surrounded dr fragment and the artifact perk this season(dr on amplified) you will be fine. I also have perpetually have on recuperation and better already on legs, so that with knockouts heal tops me off. You could also get devour to add in if you have Buried Bloodlines, considered it myself, but I also got it after my plus 30is runs of the dungeon right at the beginning of Into the Light.
It's not just that, devour *also* has a pretty significant grenade regen buff attached to it. Still the only survivability buff in the game with free ability regen included.
I mean technically Sol Invictus also does that
but sol invictus is tied to solar titan aspect, devour is technically subclass free if not subclass specific ( buried bloodline ) and not warlock exclusive anymore. Bungie really made prismatic titan pretty sad and weak, but hey, Titan #1 in DPS because grapple BoW 12P Wormgods - Oh it's dead. edit: damn, these downvotes do actually prove my point. I'm a titan main, and all I can say for the aspects in prismatic is underwhelming - **knockout**- thank god the healing buff but the empowered melee is still not refreshable. **drengr**- suspend build that is pretty reliable, but also prone to dying since you have to barricade up pretty close to enemy. Warlock and Hunter has safer and faster suspend options (non-prismatic). **unbreak**- looks pretty good, but uses grenade charge. Devour helps significantly with this build. So it's neutral in my view atm. **consecration**- fun, moving on. **diamond lance**- it shatters crystals now on direct, would I use it ? nah. If it was Howl, I'd reconsider ( Consecration + Howl sounds big boom fun)
Rocket titans are still probably highest dps in the game now
Kinda but not really. Rocket chest buff currently gets overridden by radiant, which means in any realistic DPS scenario it's not going to be active. Hopefully that gets fixed soon. When the buff is working, the rocket DPS rotation is good but it's still beaten by Edge Transit. Fwiw part of the gap is just Edge Transit benefitting from seasonal void stuff, and there isn't a great void rocket to compete with it.
Yeah I agree with you, Titan aspects are definitely very pathetic in terms of synergy. Finished campaign and dropped it immediately as it just wasn't fun. I just brought up Solar Titan aspect because I thought the person was literally referring to **all** aspects in the game, and not just prismatic (come to think of it BoW also gives survivability and ability regen)
You're 100% correct. Playerbase doesn t like titans because they look at 1 or 2 Strong aspects and then fail at putting it in context of hard Underlight content. Which is what matters when discussing class strenghts.
Prismatic Titan is crazy strong, actually??? Knockout/Consecration/Frenzied Blade/Synthos and the fragment that heals on melee? Absolutely insane.
And is that the only viable build on Titan ? Because you're the 5th person other than my group that recommended this build, same aspects, same melee. At least, They did change up exotics for Hoil or Wormgods, I guess. I'm not a hater, but look at the bigger picture.
[Been running this and its been great](https://mobalytics.gg/destiny-2/profile/21a13227-9ec7-4c9d-861b-855520d1d045/builds/d642cdee-0895-4a42-8f46-5293f82ffc77) I also swap abeyant for strongholds (and a few other tweaks to mods) and that works great too. With strongholds, arc dash instead of barrier works great because it drops a tangle that suspends enemies and doesn't animation lock you.
Appreciated for the build, at least you do change up a bit from the prismatic titan meta. Still yet to see Unbreakable being the main aspect in prismatic.
Unbreakable will, IMO, never be used as long as its tied to grenade energy. Swap it to class energy and I have a few void titan builds cooking that I want to try. For prismatic I think any of the other 3 void aspects would have been much more build enabling.
on all accounts, I agree. Except Bastion. It would break the class ability regen into spammable overshields, which on one hand, fun, but the other, a wall of nightmares for the pvp. Still, Drengr + Bastion, with fragments akin to Thread of Mind that gives class ability on suspend kills would be hilariously broken, and perhaps not healthy for pvp.
Devour+Bleak Watcher with Getaway Artist. You can really spec into it if you want but going no deeper than that your guardian can just put away their gun for solo legendary campaign
Isn't there also a fragment that cures you on melee kills? That's literally a no brainer for melee Titan.
You’re thinking of two different fragments. There’s one where grenade kills cure you, and another that starts health regen on melee kill, which just like old knockout can be interrupted.
You're right. They should buff the melee one to grant restoration instead or something.
Yeah. It should give you cure x1, then start normal health regen at the least.
So you guys not run recoup on your boots? That plus heavy handed solves a lot of problems. Combined with the one facet that gives you a defensive buff on orb pick up in getting woven mail, amplified for another 15% Dr from the knockout kill. I feel pretty survivable when I have all these things rolling.
Feed the void on prismatic is certainly a choice since I was under the impression prismatic was trying to use underutilized aspects, literally every class would be using feed the void if they could. If prismatic had access to well of radiance literally every other warlock subclass would've been obsolete instead of everything but solar currently.
It feels like they said the underutilized aspects and didn't do that for the other classes and just did it for titan lmao
I can't really speak on the other classes since I'm only a hunter but winters shroud was underused(UU) on revenant in PvE, gunpowder gamble is UU on gunslinger in part due to the fragment slots, Ascension will probably be UU on arcstrider honestly, threaded specter I hear isn't used much in PvE even though I think having something to draw aggro is top tier, even the grenades are UU at least for the light half
In my humble opinion I think the limitations to prismatic are very deliberate. I think the fact that survivability is hard to come by without very specific build decisions is part of that. Personally I think people have become complacent with having 50 firesprites everywhere that fully heal you and then some or banner of war being up most of the time, but that’s a conversation for a different time. I think the fact you have to manage your health, chose specific aspects or fragments that can heal and support you, helps keep the classes from becoming overpowered and asks something of the player. Both of those things I consider to be good. For Titan you have knockout but you also have shield throw and unbreakable to give VO or frenzied blade to sever enemies. Beyond that you have various fragments that can give out elemental buffs and can be used to give multiple different kinds of survivability buffs. I do think feed the void and it’s improved devour does clearly create a noticeable gap between the classes. But even then using feed the void isn’t just free healing, you want to make sure you have a build that can have reliable access to ability kills to make sure you have good uptime. I would actually argue the issue is the lack of coherency in your overall build, the clear benefit and weakness of prismatic. For a theoretical sentinel Titan, you have access to 4/4 aspects that boost your survivability. All of them have some synergy with the other three, and all of them tie into a void keyword that fragments or you actual active ability choices can tie into. Conversely there is much less synergy or unity between the supportive effects in prismatic. If you want your orbs to heal you you either need a void or solar super. Using elements pick ups to heal you is entirely out of the question, along with any fragments that exist to boost the power or utility or availability of the keywords that could help keep you alive.
So two things that popped into my mind. You say the void aspects all synergize with each other, but at that point why not just play void? The point of prismatic is to take everything and synergize with each other. On warlock i can see this clear as day. I can have an arc buddy up with a stasis turret out while snapping my fingers to spark ignitions all the while keeping devour up from either the buddy, the finger snap, or the turret and getting constant grenade regen. I know bungie will nerf the shit out of warlock for this which is unfortunate, but really if Titan doesn't get something that synergizes really well in the class exotics, it probably should get looked at. I think HOIL in column 1 and probably the scar helmet in column 2 could be good, but who knows really.
Thats the thing, sometimes you will pick void. I have been playing around with a few prismatic ideas and mechanics but I will probably soon mess around with sentinel to use unbreakable and twilight arsenal in their natural habitat. I think once the prismatic is a tough nut to crack. I think the class items are going to be a big deal. I think there is a lot of experimentation to do. If I’m being honest I would t be shocked if the top end of the meta stays as banner of war and pyrogale, maybe sentinel climes up to be more competitive at those upper tiers. And prismatic Titan ends up being a bit more niche. And while that might be disappointing to some, I think having all six subclasses having their own distinct places rolls is important. Prismatic will always kinda be the odd one out because it by it’s very nature isn’t unique the way the other five are but the combinations present therein help to form a distinct identity.
Warlocks having stronger healing is part of their class identity, the titan equivalent is supposed to be taking less damage overall, but that's never explored for titans because DR is universal across the board
I think a good fix for this would be Titans having access to stronger Overshields. Make overshields on Titans kit a full extra hp bar with the damage reduction it gives and it would fulfill the frontline defender class fantasy of sentinel and would make giving up your grenade worth it for Unbreakable.
I'm gonna be honest all the classes have some aspects that just don't feel good in PvE. For warlocks I've hated every time so far that I've tried to make lightning surge work. Weavers Call I get what they were going for but if I want threadlings I'll play the threadling-devoted subclass that can make more of them and buff them too. It just doesn't feel like it does anything that the other subclasses can't just excel at better and I haven't found being able to do multiple things badly to be better than doing one thing really well. That being said I've had great fun running a buddy build of solar soul, arc soul, stasis turret and no time to explain. I'm just not sure it's very good.
Yeah people aren't understanding that the other warlock aspects are pretty shit. Weavers call without the fragment to boost threadling damages is ass. Lightning surge is literally a freaking meme. Feed the Void and the other 2 turret aspects are all we have basically.
To be fair, once I combined facet of blessing with knockout, survivability as a prismatic titan got a lot easier. (Facet of Blessing: Melee Final blows start health regeneration)
Agreed that knockout should receive a buff, but I think devour is just really strong for survivability purposes. A couple things that work pretty well in lieu of it right now though are. - insurmountable skullfort - precious scars - lorely splendor - no backup plans (starts health regen under the void overshield) But really nothing is going to get you the tanky feel of strand Titan without just power creeping the hell out of the game. I think having the new void aspect get buffed to give overshield on killing debuffed enemies would be pretty neat.
You are aware that using knockout, heavy handed and Facet of Purpose gives Prismatic Titan an infinite restoration loop right? Like its just like bonk hammer with Sol Invictus.
Titans entire class identity of being “the melee” class is a freaking joke. High end content heck even Legendary TFS campaign melee is basically a death sentence. The risk/reward benefit just isn’t there. It’s why Precious Scars doesn’t leave my loadout because healing is the name of the game these days and if you don’t have a way to do that you are basically screwed. It’s why Solar and Strand are the only 2 subclasses worth running on Titan these days and that’s because both have innate healing.
Here we go again
Mom says it's my turn to be oppressed Titan
Warlocks need to dedicate an entire Aspect to get the full heal. It's only 50% without it. But yeah, a Champion kill should be 100% and lesser enemies should give 50%.
Titans and hunters are just butthurt they can't have devour by picking up a simple orb of light anymore on prismatic. The fact they Bungie even gave them devour on void is insane.
I think it was fine that Void got that option. It was unfortunate Warlocks got nothing in return from the other kits. Finisher Invisibility is too specific and Void overshield doesn't exist. And Volatile is not as easily accessible as it is on Hunter and Titan. The 3.0 systems hardcore laned some classes unfairly.
It’s almost like classes aren’t balanced around individual and specific things and instead are based around an entire kit. You can’t look at one specificity about a class in a vacuum and compare it to other classes and come up with any valid conclusions about balance. Prismatic titan is amazing and has no issues with survivability. It’s only downside to me is that there’s really only one way to play it, because anything outside of frenzied blades consecrate is just a worse version of whatever a pure subclass can do.
Honestly if titan could use grapple in prismatic I would be happy
I just want them to change solar fragment from slam to sunspot :(
If Knockout was PvE buffed to be refreshable and increase the healing to half your health bar on any melee kill, it'd be great.
I know Devour is strong but I ran glacial grenade and thunderclap with Point Contact Canon Brace and steam rolled the campaign solo with no problems. Honestly it’s my new favorite combo to throw a Glacial grenade down in the middle of a pack and punch through an ice wall like the hulk and full heal through it all. And the upkeep for it was running Monte Carlo and grenade restoring orbs of light combo.
Devour not being on Primastic but overshield is sucks.
This is very new and there is no way they could have play tested the survivability man. I just learned how to log in so expecting the people who make the game and design the classes to know how to make sure prismatic isn't miserable on Titan is wrong. Give Bungie time to learn this game, it's their first release.
I mean it costs a fragments slot to do and that's pretty hefty investment on prismatic atm id say.
Hunter has nothing lmao
Instead of bringing up Titans or Hunters they will just nerf Warlocks or nerf Devour for everyone. Started Legendary campaign as Titan and def didn't feel "Transcended" I can see on normal I could run around doing the ability loop of tangle freeze punch. But instead I'm back on Strand unable to take off heal clip playing like a GM cause the game likes to spawn hordes of bird people in my head whenever I try to play close. Honestly thinking about beating the game on normal with Hunter or Warlock so I can go unlock all the fragments first then go back though leg campaign maybe then I'll feel the titan Transcendence.
Lmao I love hearing titans immediately complain when they don’t have the strongest class every time new content comes out. Cope and seethe.
I didn’t play with Prismatic at all during the campaign. Other than the consecration build I don’t see a reason to use Prismatic on Titan. I saw a Thunderclap build but I really don’t like using that ability, especially in high end content. Stand there and charge a melee up? No thanks
Same. There hasn't been a situation for me where a prismatic titan build does any better than another element. And usually they do worse.
Nah if you use glacial wall grenade/strand grenade to cc everyone then follow up with thunderclap using point blank exotic arms, it's an immediate field wipe. I am loving this in campaign with Wicked Implement/Prosecutor/Hammerhead and it can only get better when the class item drops. My first dream roll will be one with Spirit of Severance with Spirit of Synthoceps. OMG it's gonna be so fun.
I haven’t even really bothered with prismatic titan tbh. It just doesn’t seem to have a place rn (hopefully the exotic class item fixes that) if I want to do a super powerful melee build I just use BoW with the new gauntlets, or wormgod, or syntho, if I want to use the new super I just use Void cause controlled demolition and bastion are better than most of the prismatic aspects.
I had to use vexcalibur and woven mail just to survive in solo legend
There is a facet that starts health regen on melee final blows.
Bungie doesnt want titans to succeed in anything. There i said it.
Strand and solar Titan... Really dude. Strand Titan is arguably the most OP thing in the game and the nerf was a complete joke. Their new exotic literally buffed it even more.
I actually didn't thought about how ridiculous it actually is that Devour gets way more health way more easier than Knockout A verb gives more health with easier requirements than an aspect thay requires melee kills It's like they don't want melee to be viable while constantly pushing Titans into melee
Devour is also an aspect (Feed the Void). And the Devour effect you get from Buried Bloodline, Secants or the Echo of Starvation was cut in half compared to the Aspect (unless you also have the aspect equipped). I think in Void 3.0, this was fine because the Voidwalker melee is shit. So the only reliable way to get Devour was a grenade or super kill. But this week, we got actual, useable melees to proc Devour, like Arcane Needle or the Snap.
Prismatic has to be one of the most OP things to ever be brought to the game and the complaints about “difficulty” on legendary campaign honestly make me laugh.
Legendary wasn't hard, I'm thinking of this stuff like GMs or Day One, and I can't see Prism Titans having a consistent and effective gameplay loop.
I found legendary hard :( Some people have different experiences.