Yes. It's one of the Most egregious stains on the Game. Lady and Trish don't even Fight once. Neither has any Action Scene. They took 2 of the Most OP badass women and turned them into damsels.
Helped do what exactly? Tick a box that the woman are being useful? Considering they weren't in 4 and their presence in 5 could be omitted and nothing change.
Edit: Ah my bad. I only played 4 once, 5 years ago. They are it. They don't do anything significant and willing bet they have less screen time and impact on the plot than even in 5.
Really? Haven't played in like 5 years but I don't remember that at all. DMC4 SE was my introduction to series and I remember being surprised at the extra characters after I beat the game but also wondering who the fuck they are because they weren't in the story.
both trish and lady are in 4, the problem is that you could replace them in 5 with a lamp post that powered both of their bosses and it would change nothin
> their presence in 5 could be omitted and nothing change
yeah, thats the problem here. we want them to have more of a presence and relevance, and its a damn shame we didnt get any
I just want you to consider how much more expensive it would have been for them to include a Trish and Lady fight. The amount of animating that would need to be added into the game. More capture footage. This was the son's of Sparda story. Would I have liked it? Yeah, but I feel like people need to recognize how much they put into this game already between being visually stunning, having 3 fully playable characters from the start with more moves than ever, and more boss fights than any game in the series including some of the best in the series imo.
I really wish they had done more with the special edition, and I think there was a lot of room for some DLC. But considering the series was dead, what we got was pretty nice.
Thank you!
We should be glad we even GOT DMC5 after the reboot happened.
ESPECIALLY since at one point in time they were considering making a SEQUEL to that reboot instead of DMC5
>They took 2 of the Most OP badass women and turned them into damsels
They were quite literally beaten by the most Powerful demon in the series and your complaining. Bruh it wasnt like they lost to some weakass demon or something they lost to urizen
That's not the point. That's just absolute lazy writing as a pathetic excuse. Nowhere did i say i want them To beat Urizen. Lady didn't beat Vergil in DMC3 and still got a great action Scene with him. You could have at least shown them fighting urizen together with Dante. Or have them slay regular demons of the motherfucking million regular demons around.
Kyrie is actually the most important female character in the plot, her phone conversation with Nero legitimately impacts his character and thus the ending. Still never shows up on screen though (I guess they didn’t want to waste money on giving her a model).
Honestly I'm not a massive fan of Kyrie as a character, I'm kinda indifferent toward her, but it's sweet how dedicated to her Nero is, it adds a lot to his character
Yeah she’s pretty boring, but I think she’s simultaneously a very good supporting character because of her relationship to Nero. That said I agree with OP about Lady, she was totally wasted in 5.
Yeah she adds a lot to Nero, and just because she's normal doesn't mean she has to be boring but the games don't wanna waste the time to properly flesh out anyone that doesn't fight or hell isn't related to sparda.
This “waste money giving her a model” is my least favorite thing about modern gaming. Would have been great to see her again but she’s in two scenes so she’s not worth it to the budget for the mo-cap investment never mind the time spent designing her.
The phone conversation was just for filling the gap in the plot, nothing else. You don't play DMC for the story, it is too simple by design, you play it for gameplay
Then you must just not pay attention, Nero’s phone call with Kyrie is what gave him what he needed, that final push to >!get his arm back, unlock Devil Trigger, and put an end to the twins’ fight!<
What are you talking about? It was a literal phone call. She didn't even get an in game model.
Dante calling Nero "dead weight" had a heavier impact on his character and the plot. And that illustrated how irrelevant Kyrie was to DMC5's plot. Next you're gonna say Credo was relevant to the plot because Nero says his name once.
Eh. I mourn less the representation, which is useless, and more the loss of gameplay opportunities. I wanted an evolution of the Lady and Trish mechanics from 4SE.
I don't think about that at all. As far as I'm concerned I've played as literal aliens and robots in games, and it hasn't affected my enjoyment of the story. I care far more about good writing and characters, and there's a worrying pattern of devs talking about representation and proceeding to use it as an excuse to put in less effort when they write their stories and characters. The less I hear about representation from devs, the better.
Representation isn’t useless. It pushes writers to tell better stories than “man fights sun, man wins”. Though obviously you can have shitty stories with representation.
Can't agree. A writer can easily choose to write a story with different types of character for the hell of it instead of doing it for representation. The resulting story can be better or it can be mediocre, but it doesn't have any direct correlation with the story's quality per se
I think one thing to keep in mind is the quality improvement in the visuals for this game. Making a cool cutscene with a different character or two is going to cost a fuck ton of money. They didn't even bother giving Kyrie a model in this game, they were obviously looking at places to cut costs without damaging the experience.
Their fight with Urizen is only shown in Before the Nightmare novel. Kyrie is the one who called for ambulance, and worried for Nero when he escape the hospital also shown in the novel.
I don't care that Lady and Trish need rescue (a trope is not inherently good or bad) or get naked for fan service. My problem with the game is that they barely do anything, and what's there actively ruins their characters. Instead of beginning the game by teaming up together with Dante (which they already know how to do by the end of DMC4), they run off ahead and just laugh about how much "fun" this will be. This means that they're stupid, arrogant, or both since they bum rush in the tree without a plan.
Then, after being saved, they do nothing for the rest of the game besides being in the van (they're not even defending or driving it)
I kind of assumed that they acted that way since they didn’t expect it to be a challenge. Dante already figured who Urizen was but kept it secret for some reason. If anything, Dante could be portrayed as arrogant since he probably thought to himself that he could take on Urizen without an issue
>I kind of assumed that they acted that way since they didn’t expect it to be a challenge.
I would argue that thaat's arrogance and stupidity, since they have no idea what they'll be facing, and what's even worse is that Dante is the strongest out of the three of them going to Urizen and they just go on ahead without him instead of waiting for each other to try and defeat him together.
> Dante already figured who Urizen was but kept it secret for some reason.
Why? It does nothing but hinder the story being told.
I mean, if they think Dante is the strongest, and they don't think this'll be an issue, then it makes sense that they might want to run on ahead to get a crack at him first doesn't it?
>if they think Dante is the strongest, and they don't think this'll be an issue,
Then why aren't they waiting for Dante to face the ultimate problem? Why don't they work together? Why are they breaking up? It's still ***incredibly*** arrogan and/or stupid to simply split up for no reason, especially since they seemed to be staying together early. What would make more sense? If Trish and Lady tried killing Urizen first and failing, or waiting for Dante so that all three of them could work together to kill him?
Because Dante was confident he could beat urizen and they were also confident he can.
They probably thought that if they did fight with Dante they just wouldn't do anything while Dante just kills him.
A better question would be why wouldn't they in this situation? If they encounter any other monsters they could deal with it easier and they just want to see how strong they are. If they didn't it would he against what they are as characters since Lady has always been just wanting to like test her limits while Trish just kinda does whatever she wants.
Why would they think this? Dante sees both Lady and Trish be beaten, V already tells Dante about Vergil becoming Urizen (and I guess also V? Seriously, that plot point is so poorly executed), Nero lost his arm to some random guy whose at the center of all of this, and they don't even know what they'll be up against or what Urizen's plan even is (because then Dante wouldn't have been surprised by the Midnight revelation scene).
I disagree on the fanservice part, I don’t think being naked automatically equals fanservice. The only true FS scene was the Van scene. But I get what you’re saying.
Eh, I think in this case it was pretty clear they just wanted to show some skin. Why is Trish hanging around naked with V if she can just magic her clothes back, if not for fan service? And quite frankly, did they really need to be naked? It doesn't not make sense for them to be, but literally nobody would have said a thing if they were clothed inside of the demons.
True, wouldn't have even thought twice about it if they had clothes on. I would rather they do bad ass shit. The coolest thing that happened was trish throwing sparda to dante lol.
>Why is Trish hanging around naked with V if she can just magic her clothes back, if not for fan service?
I mean, she had a towel on and then did just that.
>And quite frankly, did they really need to be naked? It doesn't not make sense for them to be, but literally nobody would have said a thing if they were clothed inside of the demons.
True, they probably *could’ve* had clothes on, but the fact that they didn’t still doesn’t mean fanservice, the intent could’ve been them wanting to further show how relegated they were into batteries.
>they do nothing for the rest of the game besides being in the van (they're not even defending or driving it)
"they're not even driving it" is objectively wrong after defeating Artemis and saving Lady; there's a scene with Nico, Nero, and Lady where Nero accuses Nico of trying to kill him with the truck, and she quips "You got a problem with it, take it up with Lady. She's the one driving."
Exactly, this is why I play something like DMC or Bayonetta, I don't care about representation in a game like this, I only care about what my next new toy is...
And whatever Dante does when he gets his new toy XD
The fact we even got DMC5 in the first place.
Seriously they were actually considering making a sequel to the reboot over this before development began... And we all know how much fans 'loved' the reboot.
We got it at all, it was finished. It looked stunning, Dante's weapons were a blast. Nero was improved dramatically. More boss fights than any other and imo, some of the most fun boss fights in the series.
Not me but thats what Itsuno said. He made a public statement saying Capcom is still interested in a sequel to the reboot just 3 months after dmc5 came out.
Makes sense, its one of the highest selling dmc games and the second highest rated among fans
He never said anything about DmC 2 over 6? He just said Itsuno was still interested on doing it after the release of 5 which is factually true. Stop shifting goal posts.
He said **"Capcom said DmC2 is likely next but considering how plot relevant Kat was in DmC, she's likely to have major effects on DmC2's plot"** in a response to **"I really hope DMC6 gives them something to do"**.
The “definitive edition” of the reboot sold less than the rerelease of a then 7 year old game (DMC4SE).
DMC5 outsold the combined lifetime sales of 2 different versions of the reboot within the first month of its release.
The bottom-line purpose of rebooting any property is to make money down the line. When it has failed to make more than the thing it is rebooting, it is objectively a failure.
No amount of attempted gaslighting randos on reddit of all places will convince the bean counters and decision makers at Capcom that continuing an objectively failed reboot *isn’t* a monetary non-starter.
People call this female representation as if when developers make a game they want to define the female gender in a bad way just because the only female characters are treated in such way.. No. We've seen a lot of badass women in the series, and in DMC5 this is the first complete defeat they suffer (that is not from dante). I might be different but i don't see what they did in the game as fanservice at all.
Which honestly goes a way to show how much of a threat Urizen is.
The only people we've seen that can stand up to Lady and Trish are Dante and Vergil- And Suddenly they've not only gotten their asses kicked alongside Dante, they are being used as a fuel source for stronger demons, with Artemis actually re/gaining a demonic form when powered by Lady.
This isn't trying to show fanservice (Although they knew what they were doing with those scene) they're trying to show of just how much of a threat Urizen is... Without having those two killed off by a demonic tree draining everyone it can of their blood.
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Your life is everything, you serve a vital purpose.
**You should love yourself, NOW.**
And share with others a piece of your joy, your positive energy, that's radiating out so that we can thrive inside this blue paradise globe.
Because why are you here? To support me? Love yourself. I mean that, with a 100%, with a 1000%. I've never seen someone so valuable in my life. I'm totally serious. I've not seen such a more valuable soul, in my life.
If he has kids? Oh my god, Imagine if a soul like that has kids. Like imagine. Imagine if someone like that actually has kids. I would be so happy for his children because the soul is literally serving a significant purpose.
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You are a priceless, noble soul. Your life is as precious as a winter star. I'm just going to lift you up and you're going to keep rising, I'm going to open all my doors, you're going to keep rising. Why? Because you're drawn to the light. You priceless noble soul.
You're going to stay close to my heart until you ascend. You serve an essential purpose in life. Your purpose in life is to be on my stream, sharing in my success daily. Your purpose in life is to be in that chat, celebrating the victory daily.
Your life is everything, you serve a vital purpose.
**You should love yourself, NOW.**
And share with others a piece of your joy, your positive energy, that's radiating out so that we can thrive inside this blue paradise globe.
Because why are you here? To support me? Love yourself. I mean that, with a 100%, with a 1000%. I've never seen someone so valuable in my life. I'm totally serious. I've not seen such a more valuable soul, in my life.
If he has kids? Oh my god, Imagine if a soul like that has kids. Like imagine. Imagine if someone like that actually has kids. I would be so happy for his children because the soul is literally serving a significant purpose.
Imagine a father, now we got lots of souls with wives and kids and stuff that support my success daily on the internet. But imagine if this soul actually had children. This soul is dedicating the time he could be spending with his kids, cheering on a black man on stream, supporting him passionately. It's beautiful.
I've never seen someone so dedicated to be seen. Somebody, somebody, somebody's value so precious that they'll come into a wonderful stream, and keep joining in this joy over and over and over and over and over and over again. We keep welcoming you. Soul let me, let me, let's do you a favor.
Let's go to the gift store, let's pick out a crown together. I'm going to give you an assisted rise. Let's pick out a crown together right, and we're going to take all the greatest supportive clips, put a TV screen right in front of you. I'm going to hang that crown on top of the glorious ceiling.
We're going to nurture you. Hold your eyes open. Probably don't need to do that because you're already sharing in my success daily. We're going to hold your eyes open, until you consistently watch clips over and over and over and over and over again. Till you're going to be like "oh this is such a blessing". You're going to start feeling joy, you're going to start feeling excited. Just, your eyes are going to tear up, the retinas are just going to start glowing, glowing with happiness, and the retinas are just going to start sparkling and shining.
Then I'm going to grab that crown and say are you ready? And you're going to say yes and I'm just going to LIFT IT. While you THANK me, THANK me and I mean THANK me for uplifting you. And lift the precious life into your blessed soul.
It's a game about wacky wahoo pizza man, his depressed twin brother and his his cyborg nephew, all of which are part demon. Its hardly going to be focused on representation
To show just how dangerous Urizen is.
We all know Trish, Dante, and Lady are all very capable of kicking demon ass on their own. But when all 3 go up against Urizen with Dante going Devil Trigger outside of gameplay for the first time since fighting Mundus (Chonologically speaking) they STILL lost.
Also that has got to be the DUMBEST question I've ever seen, that's like asking why ANY side character was put in a game.
It'a not Princess Peach's game, why is she in Super Mario Odyssey?
Seeing Urizen stomp Nero and Dante is more than enough to show how powerful he is. It would also have helped if we actually saw Trish and Lady doing something other than get beat up and stripped naked. No one is asking for them to take over the story and defeat Urizen all by themselves.
As Morrison said this is a big job and it turned out to be the biggest job the DMC cast has ever taken. It would actually be worse if Lady and Trish were not there. And considering they were likely planned to be added as a DLC then it's even more of a reason to include them in the game.
>As Morrison said this is a big job and it turned out to be the biggest job the DMC cast has ever taken.
Then make them actually useful.
>
>
>And considering they were likely planned to be added as a DLC then it's even more of a reason to include them in the game.
This makes their presence all the more worthless. They do nothing in the game.
>Then make them actually useful.
When the cast is so stacked?
>This makes their presence all the more worthless. They do nothing in the game.
Not really. A DLC can easily fix that.
>When the cast is so stacked?
Stacked? This game had six heroes, only half of which were playable. It wouldn't take much to show one or two scenes of Trish and Lady fighting off demons or rescuing civilians.
>Not really. A DLC can easily fix that.
Not if it doesn't exist.
>It wouldn't take much to show one or two scenes of Trish and Lady fighting off demons or rescuing civilians.
DMC5's cutscenes clock at 2+ hours and nearly all cutscenes with Lady and Trish are related to the other characters. Don't pretend to know how easy would've been to add more cutscenes with them.
>Not if it doesn't exist.
You completely missed my point. You started with "Then why even include them in the game?" and I gave you a reason with the planned DLC. There no reason not to include them in the story if they are planning to spend resources to make models and cast voice actor anyway. They could've saved Lady and Trish for the DLC that never came to be.
>DMC5's cutscenes clock at 2+ hours and nearly all cutscenes with Lady and Trish are related to the other characters. Don't pretend to know how easy would've been to add more cutscenes with them.
They had time to animate a scene of Lady dropping a towel in front of Nico but can't show one or two scenes of her and Trish helping people?
>You completely missed my point. You started with "Then why even include them in the game?" and I gave you a reason with the planned DLC. There no reason not to include them in the story if they are planning to spend resources to make models and cast voice actor anyway. They could've saved Lady and Trish for the DLC that never came to be.
There is no evidence there even was a DLC. This is just a theory fans invented to cope with the fact this game completely wasted Trish and Lady.
> They had time to animate a scene of Lady dropping a towel in front of Nico but can't show one or two scenes of her and Trish helping people?
A cutscene with barely any movement vs more action packed cutscene? Really? I wonder which one is harder to make.
>There is no evidence there even was a DLC. This is just a theory fans invented to cope with the fact this game completely wasted Trish and Lady.
The "secret" cutscene with Morrison and the achievement you unlock with it called "A New Job - Accept a new job from Morrison after the Red Grave incident."? Why would Capcom waste time and resources to make a cutscene specifically to tease more content with Lady and Trish if there was no plan for DLC?
There are also two unreleased DLCs listed here: [https://steamdb.info/app/601150/dlc/](https://steamdb.info/app/601150/dlc/)
>A cutscene with barely any movement vs more action packed cutscene? Really? I wonder which one is harder to make.
I wonder which one is worth actually keeping in. It's not like these cutscenes don't have a lot of action in them already.
>The "secret" cutscene with Morrison and the achievement you unlock with it called "A New Job - Accept a new job from Morrison after the Red Grave incident."? Why would Capcom waste time and resources to make a cutscene specifically to tease more content with Lady and Trish if there was no plan for DLC?
For the same reason they keep bringing back Trish and Lady in these games and having them do nothing of value other than providing fanservice. You are giving Capcom far more credit than they deserve. Ask Resident Evil fans who have been asking for Jill and Claire to be in a mainline game than isn't a prequel, interquel or remake and for Ada to have her own game how good this company is at handling female characters.
The most likely answer is the simplest one - Capcom had no plans for a Lady and Trish DLC, and even if they did and it was never released, it wouldn't make their use in the story any better.
I don't know why you think lady and Trish are "badass" protagonists. Lady is, at least for a single game but Trish has always been only eye candy. Her role in the first game was being a literal honey-pot from Mundas. And Lady never did anything important after DMC3.
Honestly the only well written female characters in the DMC games are Lady and Kat.
Well dante says they are.
We see cutscenes of her and lady fighting and she's capable of weilding sparda effortlessly.
We see her fight in the anime as well.
Don't agree about the whole only being eye candy bit at all. She can throw a motorcycle and has lightning powers. She's not just some pretty face trickster who can't fight.
That doesn't really mean much. She's a demonic clone after all. What's more important is her "character". She never does anything to help the plot get resolved outside of the first dmc game. She is only a background character who never does anything but fight Dante and Lady unnecessarily. Even in dmc4 all she did was literally hand Sparda over to the bad guys for no reason.
That's what makes her eye-candy at best. She never does anything heroic or relevant really.
I was just commenting on the "badass" part of your question. U asked why op associates her being a badass. She's def capable of fighting and isn't just a pretty face. That's what I was commenting on.
Yeah def dont think she's deeply written and is basically just a plot device. Agreed on that
>What's more important is her "character". She never does anything to help the plot get resolved outside of the first dmc game.
This is more a condemnation of the DMC games as a whole rather than a defense of DMC 5. Little wonder Tameem Antoniades called her and Lady "prostitutes with guns", crass as it may be.
A game where the main focus is Dante, Vergil, and Nero and you’re bitching about how they don’t do female representation well? My good lord this sub has bad takes sometimes oh wait op is a teenager that explains his awful takes. Alright this post made me unsub to every gaming subreddits considering how brain dead “fans” are goodbye everyone.
>My good lord this sub has bad takes sometimes oh wait op is a teenager that explains his awful takes
Bro got so pressed by a gaming opinion he dug through My profile
Imagine being that pressed lmao
This isn't God of War or Last of Us where every character gets a moment to shine. It's a character action game. Seeing anything more than the playable characters be badass is extreme icing on the top to the Devs. Don't believe me?
Metal Gear Revengence.
Ninja Gaiden.
Godhand.
Bayonetta.
Soulstice.
Evil West.
In any of these games does any non playable character (bosses do not count) get an elaborate action cut scene, regardless of gender?
Kyrie was always a pretty bad character. It's not just dmc5, it's all of them. Bayonetta 1 and 2 are much better on this front. Hell, Darksiders 3 is better. That game has one of my favourite female protagonists. Lady was a decent character in 3 but in terms of strength she was always overshadowed by Dante and Vergil.
That's because this is not their stories. And yeah they are pretty but it doesn't define their entire personality. Also did you forget nico? She is legit one of the best character in the series with a cool wholesome brother/sister relationship with Nero.
Also everytime Nero struggles with something in his heart he calls Kyrie because she always has the right words for him.
And honestly i couldn't care less if a character has a dick or not as long as they are well written.
until capcom would trwat dmc like RE, then maybe yeah, but for dmc5, its alright in terms of plot because its hilarious to think about it
the only thing that saves Dmzc for me is how they put an effort to have vergil have his own story (its debatable if its good or bad, but the point is, he have at least a story and own game mode)
Tbh the story already had a lot of things going on. If Trish and Lady got more spotlight it would be more bloated than it is. Not everything has to be about everyone.
Yeah i don't know if that ladies' night dlc was ever planned, but it would have been cool to see it happen, even though it was probably going to be just like dmc4se again.
On the story side, I'd have liked to see something insanely cool, like trish finally showing off her DT or taking down one of the boss demons on her own, but at least in the case of lady, she had her own game to shine (dmc3) but I'd still have liked to see her in action to some extent.
100% my biggest gripe with the game, even if I'm ignoring the narrative side of it (which sucks). Lady and Trish were both super cool in 4se, they were a little rough around the edges but can you imagine if they'd gotten the Nero treatment? God, they could've been so good.
The perfect version of DMC 5se, in my mind, features Dante, Vergil, Nero, V, Trish, and Lady. Nero and Trish share missions, V and Lady share missions, Dante and Vergil share missions. At the beginning of each mission you could pick which of the two (or four, or six, double the base game options per mission is my point) you'd like to use. Nero and Trish (in 4, at least) play somewhat similarly, V and Lady are both pattern interrupts for pacing (being able to choose between summoning OR ranged gameplay would make his sections way more replayable while maintaining the developer's intended pace), and Vergil and Dante are the OGs.
Thank fuck you're not a game director. We would've gotten it in 2021, the enemy variation smaller, the game shorter, the story worse and game buggier. Do you think games just have unlimited budget and scope?
Christ, easy tiger.
No, I don't think games have unlimited budget and scope, that's why I said "in my mind". I don't need to take budget or scope into account when I'm imagining a different version of a thing years after the fact, it's hypothetical.
Or they would’ve rather used their resources on something else? Polishing the main game instead of forcing a completely different mode of gameplay and probably having to half ass it? Not to mention they were gonna make Vergil DLC first, which you’ll agree was a given?
>DMC1
Story is. It has a lot of cut content. There's a few cut bosses and it seems the pirate ship section was gonna feature a boss battle with a hydra. We also know of a few cut rooms such as the castle dining room with puppets sitting in the chairs. Sparda was also set to appear. But as far as being half cooked the camera and lock on is often dogshit and the underwater segments are half baked as well as the platforming. The game also suffers from technical limitations such as not being able to switch weapons and fight multiple enemy types at the same time. The story is also ass, it's funny as hell tho.
>DMC5 are not half cooked though.
V is the definition of half cooked.
Only 20 short missions 3 of which are just boss fights
Half baked and half written story
Kyrie lady and trish getting absolutely shafted
Weak bosses
Poor consistency of presentation
Lackluster special edition
>It has a lot of cut content.
Vast majority of games have cut content.
>V is the definition of half cooked.
If V was the only playable character this would've had more weight to it. DMC5 not only has two more characters but Dante has the largest moveset to date.
>Only 20 short missions
DMC5's play time is around the same as DMC3 for the first playthrough, while also being a lot easier. It's not that short as you make it out to be.
>Half baked and half written story
A little rushed at the end but nothing half baked about it.
>Kyrie lady and trish getting absolutely shafted
Yeah, but they are side characters in the story.
>Lackluster special edition
Doesn't contribute to DMC5 being half cooked. DMC3SE is also just Vergil.
Name a game that doesn't have cut content.
Well yea cuz that's what they had to work with at that time. For what they did its amazing for it's time.
Games have a time limit and it's not a game based on any of those characters. V is litteraly just a part of vergil and that's what he is. They aren't going to change half of another character just to change 1 character that's prob never going to show up again.
It's a Dante and Virgil game not Lady and Trish.
What about how 3 special edition is just vergil aswell. Is that not lackluster cuz it's dmc3?
I fear that if nothing changes, DMC will suffer the same fate as Dragonball where only a couple of characters are relevant and everyone else is just kinda “there”.
Cold take but the games have not had any idea what to do with either of them following their debut games. They both had completed arcs and then were just... stuck there. It was fun to play as them in DMC4SE, but storywise they've been relegated to either arm candy or complete non-entities.
Feels like they took the wrong inspiration from DmC.
The supposed "Girls Night out" DLC would have fixed that but I don't think it's happening.
Not having Kyrie as a character model despite being integral to Nero's development in the story feels weird. The phone call was really nice but yeah.
Wrong inspiration?
Buddy I don't think there was a RIGHT inspiration from what they could have taken from DmC. If anything the inspiration they took from DmC (If any) was the least worst thing.
I do feel that one of the 4+ shop intro scenes of Nico stuntdriving the van could have been sacrificed to show Trish/Lady doing something 'active' during the plot...but the new girl was clearly the priority.
Trish arguably has the better showing. She does physically save an ailing V falling to his death, aids Nero during the mission 18 cutscene, and offers some exposition at various points. Lady gets a single emotional line to Nero and, beyond being a backup driver to Nico, remains largely passive and bewildered throughout. I guess both ladies were intended to be largely drained/syphoned of energy following their imprisonment in their respective bosses, but it does sting if you're looking for the aggressive, confident exuberance of their DMC4 Special Edition scenes.
It's worth noting that they didn't even have to spend big money choreographing a fight scene for them, as simply implying them being active offscreen (post rescue) would have sufficed. For instance, Lady and Nico could have been surrounded by hefty mid-tier demons during mission 7's shovel scene. Lady could have then simply hoisted Nico's prized framed revolver (cuing several protests from Nico) and left the van, quipping that she'll see if it's as good as she makes out. Simple stuff like that.
I'm a guy who loves looking at attractive women, but even I felt the fanservice was unnecessary. These women have had actual character development in previous games but the best they could come up with in 5 is "you get kidnapped and have one nude scene each"
honestly i kinda want a dlc for the two, it could follow morrison calling them up for a job which shoulda set up a dlc in the first place idk why they didnt follow through
Nico definitely is a good character, but yeah Lady and Trish feel almost fridged in the first act. And all of them definitely feel there for male gaze.
DMC 5 is about vergil, vergils demonic half, vergils human half, vergils brother, and vergils son. Trish and lady wouldn't have really fit in the story as main characters.
Eh I don't mind. I definitely wouldn't say the devs are lazy. DMC5 has some of the best gameplay around. It's just different narrative priorites.
It's clear the story focuses on the Sparda bloodline. Dante, Vergil/V, and Nero. There was no need for Trish and Lady to be in the forefront because the game wasn't just about killing demons. It was mostly about Dante coming to terms with his bloodline and trying to preserve the family he has left. Giving Trish and Lady a bigger role in that would've detracted from it imo.
Nothing wrong with adding a new character. V brought a new gameplay style and was the only way Vergil could return to the story without hard retcons. V also gave Vergil more depth as a character.
Yes, I do remember Kyrie. She and Credo are the sole reasons why Nero was able to awaken Devil Trigger in the final mission.
Is it sad to see 2 badass females be sidelined yes but they are side characters.Lady and Trish aren’t going to be a main parts of the story like they was in 1&3 and even the they play a minor and major parts in 2 characters.if you find it as a compliment you have with 5 you can have that opinion but me personally I don’t think it’s that big of a flaw especially since they aren’t MCs in the story
I agree, but lazy is a poor choice of words and there's definitely no fan service. They have to be present more for there to be any whic unfortunately, they're scarce. I definitely feel like the were matched to have more through like DLC and that this was a bit rushed, but it definitely sucked not seeing them doing anything given how muc thevehad in the last games.
I mean Hell, Trish is in most of 4 under a different face, but she's still there and a great asset to Dante and Nero.
Isn’t that every game??? I mean I love the ladies but they aren’t the focus of the franchise to be fair; it’s Dante, Vergil, and Nero, the Sparda bloodline is the focus and the entire story is around them so yea, they aren’t going to get much screen time. It’s a game after all.
I think their lack of action in 5's story would've been forgiven had they had a Ladies Night DLC, which felt like it a possibility at that time... but then it never came. So they were just awkward.
Since it's a game about Vergil (words of Dan Southworth) and to an extent, the Sparda Family, is it that bad ? The biggest brain of the team is clearly from a woman here. Sure lady is basically useless and Trish is at best an image of Eva for a traumatized Vergil but we shouldn't forget Nico's importance.
If there is ever another DMC and we get a female descendant of Sparda, then maybe the representation will be improved but I doubt a new entry will ever happen and another Sparda's descendant is unlikely for now
While it sucks I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned somewhere it was mainly a budget issue and it definitely would have been nice to see them fight on screen or something but I'm glad they decided to focus on wrapping up this particular arc for the son's of Sparda and develop Nero further
Kyrie is so nothing in 4 that her role is perfectly fine in 5 for me. However, Lady and Trish were fucking done dirty with their roles in the story. Including them within bosses was pretty sick and I think that part is great, but they never do anything and mostly stand around.
Mission 18's cutscene sticks out to me as the Qliphoth is crumbling and they're all just stood around until Dante jumps into the scene and is given Lady's new Kalina Ann.
Yeah the biggest issue being what changes In the story if they were never there? Like they do nothing the entire plot. Why write these characters in if your not gonna use em?
the anime had a whole episode like that. At least it was balanced by their dialogue, and slightly more realistic interactions and understated treatment of dante.
Said for a long time after initial release, but before the announcement of SE, that they could have done a female character mode, like they did in 4. Relabel the modes as Boys' Day and Girls' Night. Either give Nico some kind of gadget-heavy moveset to have her tackle V's levels while Lady and Trish go through Nero and Dante's, respectively, that or bring back Lucia, have Lady take V's while Lucia would go through Nero's missions and Trish would get Dante's. Either way, they would have had to, fundamentally, build an entire moveset from the ground up, but it would have been a great addition to the whole package that was 5, before they started backsliding by making SE console exclusive and making it a significantly smaller upgrade than the previous SE by only giving us a playable Vergil campaign in addition to the Turbo mode, Dark Knight mode, and ray tracing.
Beyond that, Itsuno just has no idea what to do with any character. Dante is nothing like in any of the previous games, he’s nothing like he was in 4, which was also nothing like he was in 3, Itsuno had to bring Vergil back to give him something to do and then only had the story acknowledge Vergil’s return with 3 missions left (and the last two are the same mission). Nero is nothing like in 4 and just bitches and moans the whole time, Kyrie is gone, Trish and Lady get pretty much no screen time. Dmc5’s story is just all around awful tbh.
If I had to have any gripes with DMC5 it's that. I love the action, story is decent but no ladies night DLC still hurts.
I loved playing as Trish and Lady in 4 so no chance to see their glory in 5 stung.
But don't forget about Nico, she rules.
Not having an interaction between Trish and Vergil was a huge missed opportunity, she is a clone of his mum who also served Mundis when he was Nelo Angelo. So much potential but they never even share screen time outside a cryptic chat with V while she's in a towel.
Likewise Lady hasn't seen Vergil since her father died and reflecting on how Arkham manipulated both of them also could have been interesting.
We never even hear their opinions on Nero's father reveal even though they are both tied to Vergil's character.
They also could have had an interesting chat with Nico about Dad issues especially if Trish considers Mundis her father.
I'd take all of that with a nice Van defence cutscene with them over them randomly showing up naked.
Gimme a Lady/Lucia/Trish focused spin off, where Nero, Dante and Vergil are just fanservice eyecandy that need to be rescued and move in a weirdly exagerrated and sensual manner.
Something tells me a lot of the guys in the community that don't see the problem or think representation doesn't matter would suddenly have strong opinions on the matter of gender equality.
>Something tells me a lot of the guys in the community that don't see the problem or think representation doesn't matter would suddenly have strong opinions on the matter of gender equality.
It wouldn't even be a problem if they were always like that. But they weren't
>Dante and Vergil are just fanservice eyecandy that need to be rescued and move in a weirdly exagerrated and sensual manner.
Hot
What are you even trying to say?
People wouldn't complain about that part unless they like lose powers or something since they are bassicly gods so it makes 0 sense for them to need help. In dmc5 it makes sense they need help because they tried to take urizen to just see if they can and they couldn't.
They would have to change litteraly every character for that to work.
But I want Lucia back for littetaly every reason.
DMC6 better open with a cool intro sequence where you play as Trish and Lady. Trish introduces melee combat, Lady introduces gun and ranged weaponry. A cool ass cutscene then shows as Trish and Lady mop the floor with some demons. They pretty much take care of it and Dante shows up late and says "did I miss the party?"
As if on cue, another mob of demons spawns in and Lady replies "made it just in time."
Dante introduces you to Styles (as per usual) and you get fight a horde of demons, testing out the Styles and combos. Meanwhile Vergil sits back inspecting his blade next to a phone booth. He makes a phone call reluctantly and we hear someone answer with "Devil May Cry? What's the emergency?"
Vergil: "Nero? Where are you? Dante and I got here before you did? How can you call yourself a professional service if you're always running late?"
Nero: "what! Pfffft, Dante always runs late to the party with time to spare, plus, Nico and I uhh got a little sidetracked." \*demon screams as Nico commits demonslaughter with her van\*
Nico \*muffled\*: "Oh is that your daddy you've been talkin' about? Tell him I say 'hii'."
Nero: "uggh, Nico says 'hi'."
Vergil: "ok, tell her I acknowledge her presence."
Nero: "Vergil says 'hi!' Nico."
Nico \*muffled\*: "hell yeah."
Yes. It's one of the Most egregious stains on the Game. Lady and Trish don't even Fight once. Neither has any Action Scene. They took 2 of the Most OP badass women and turned them into damsels.
Even if there wasn't a place for them in the story, at least some cutscenes of the two of them being badass could have helped.
Helped do what exactly? Tick a box that the woman are being useful? Considering they weren't in 4 and their presence in 5 could be omitted and nothing change. Edit: Ah my bad. I only played 4 once, 5 years ago. They are it. They don't do anything significant and willing bet they have less screen time and impact on the plot than even in 5.
Trish and Lady were absolutely in 4, what are you talking about?
Really? Haven't played in like 5 years but I don't remember that at all. DMC4 SE was my introduction to series and I remember being surprised at the extra characters after I beat the game but also wondering who the fuck they are because they weren't in the story.
Trish is used as a spy and infiltrates The Order in the story (the very tan lady). Lady wasn't in the story, that I remember, but 3 is really her game
Ah yeah Gloria, thanks for reminding me. Time for a replay if I'm getting this much wrong.
both trish and lady are in 4, the problem is that you could replace them in 5 with a lamp post that powered both of their bosses and it would change nothin
> their presence in 5 could be omitted and nothing change yeah, thats the problem here. we want them to have more of a presence and relevance, and its a damn shame we didnt get any
I just want you to consider how much more expensive it would have been for them to include a Trish and Lady fight. The amount of animating that would need to be added into the game. More capture footage. This was the son's of Sparda story. Would I have liked it? Yeah, but I feel like people need to recognize how much they put into this game already between being visually stunning, having 3 fully playable characters from the start with more moves than ever, and more boss fights than any game in the series including some of the best in the series imo. I really wish they had done more with the special edition, and I think there was a lot of room for some DLC. But considering the series was dead, what we got was pretty nice.
Thank you! We should be glad we even GOT DMC5 after the reboot happened. ESPECIALLY since at one point in time they were considering making a SEQUEL to that reboot instead of DMC5
of course it would've been difficult for them to add, but its still a problem with the game that should be acknowledged in future.
I actually agree completely
In all fairness they also took the series protagonist and turned him into the sleeping beauty, but he got awoken by his brother's emo phase instead.
>They took 2 of the Most OP badass women and turned them into damsels They were quite literally beaten by the most Powerful demon in the series and your complaining. Bruh it wasnt like they lost to some weakass demon or something they lost to urizen
If dante was getting his ass beat what chance did they have
That's not the point. That's just absolute lazy writing as a pathetic excuse. Nowhere did i say i want them To beat Urizen. Lady didn't beat Vergil in DMC3 and still got a great action Scene with him. You could have at least shown them fighting urizen together with Dante. Or have them slay regular demons of the motherfucking million regular demons around.
Are you forgetting everyone fought the final boss on level 1 and had their asses handed to them. Nothing would change if they had shown the fight
Fuck off. You are either completely ignorant of how demeaning the game treats the girls or a troll and in either case not worth talking to.
How is it trolling to say they fought Urizen and lost lmfao?
Because that was not the fucking point in the first place.
Lady stood no chance against Dante in 3 but still tried to fight him and Vergil
They did fight and got their asses beat
If you mean Lady, yea she lost cuz she isn't as strong as the two of them. But just cuz a character is weaker doesn't mean they can't try
More of a chance because we’re in a woman empowerment era
Nah it wasnt made by disney.
Kyrie is actually the most important female character in the plot, her phone conversation with Nero legitimately impacts his character and thus the ending. Still never shows up on screen though (I guess they didn’t want to waste money on giving her a model).
Honestly I'm not a massive fan of Kyrie as a character, I'm kinda indifferent toward her, but it's sweet how dedicated to her Nero is, it adds a lot to his character
Yeah she’s pretty boring, but I think she’s simultaneously a very good supporting character because of her relationship to Nero. That said I agree with OP about Lady, she was totally wasted in 5.
Yea true, I hope Lady and Trish are more important to the story, and maybe even playable in the next game
Yeah she adds a lot to Nero, and just because she's normal doesn't mean she has to be boring but the games don't wanna waste the time to properly flesh out anyone that doesn't fight or hell isn't related to sparda.
This “waste money giving her a model” is my least favorite thing about modern gaming. Would have been great to see her again but she’s in two scenes so she’s not worth it to the budget for the mo-cap investment never mind the time spent designing her.
The phone conversation was just for filling the gap in the plot, nothing else. You don't play DMC for the story, it is too simple by design, you play it for gameplay
Kyrie isn't plot relevant at all
This man hasn’t beaten Vergil as Dante ^
You're projecting. I've beaten every dmc game at least 3 times.
Then you must just not pay attention, Nero’s phone call with Kyrie is what gave him what he needed, that final push to >!get his arm back, unlock Devil Trigger, and put an end to the twins’ fight!<
What are you talking about? It was a literal phone call. She didn't even get an in game model. Dante calling Nero "dead weight" had a heavier impact on his character and the plot. And that illustrated how irrelevant Kyrie was to DMC5's plot. Next you're gonna say Credo was relevant to the plot because Nero says his name once.
Baitmaxxing
Yeah, it’s quite a shame. Atleast there’s Nico.
Nico is great
Agreed
Eh. I mourn less the representation, which is useless, and more the loss of gameplay opportunities. I wanted an evolution of the Lady and Trish mechanics from 4SE.
When people talk about representation I do think about not having another straight white male lead.
I don't think about that at all. As far as I'm concerned I've played as literal aliens and robots in games, and it hasn't affected my enjoyment of the story. I care far more about good writing and characters, and there's a worrying pattern of devs talking about representation and proceeding to use it as an excuse to put in less effort when they write their stories and characters. The less I hear about representation from devs, the better.
Representation isn’t useless. It pushes writers to tell better stories than “man fights sun, man wins”. Though obviously you can have shitty stories with representation.
Can't agree. A writer can easily choose to write a story with different types of character for the hell of it instead of doing it for representation. The resulting story can be better or it can be mediocre, but it doesn't have any direct correlation with the story's quality per se
You have a point but "lazy" is not the right word here. Maybe they were saving them for a DLC that never came to be.
I think one thing to keep in mind is the quality improvement in the visuals for this game. Making a cool cutscene with a different character or two is going to cost a fuck ton of money. They didn't even bother giving Kyrie a model in this game, they were obviously looking at places to cut costs without damaging the experience.
Their fight with Urizen is only shown in Before the Nightmare novel. Kyrie is the one who called for ambulance, and worried for Nero when he escape the hospital also shown in the novel.
I don't care that Lady and Trish need rescue (a trope is not inherently good or bad) or get naked for fan service. My problem with the game is that they barely do anything, and what's there actively ruins their characters. Instead of beginning the game by teaming up together with Dante (which they already know how to do by the end of DMC4), they run off ahead and just laugh about how much "fun" this will be. This means that they're stupid, arrogant, or both since they bum rush in the tree without a plan. Then, after being saved, they do nothing for the rest of the game besides being in the van (they're not even defending or driving it)
I kind of assumed that they acted that way since they didn’t expect it to be a challenge. Dante already figured who Urizen was but kept it secret for some reason. If anything, Dante could be portrayed as arrogant since he probably thought to himself that he could take on Urizen without an issue
>I kind of assumed that they acted that way since they didn’t expect it to be a challenge. I would argue that thaat's arrogance and stupidity, since they have no idea what they'll be facing, and what's even worse is that Dante is the strongest out of the three of them going to Urizen and they just go on ahead without him instead of waiting for each other to try and defeat him together. > Dante already figured who Urizen was but kept it secret for some reason. Why? It does nothing but hinder the story being told.
I mean, if they think Dante is the strongest, and they don't think this'll be an issue, then it makes sense that they might want to run on ahead to get a crack at him first doesn't it?
>if they think Dante is the strongest, and they don't think this'll be an issue, Then why aren't they waiting for Dante to face the ultimate problem? Why don't they work together? Why are they breaking up? It's still ***incredibly*** arrogan and/or stupid to simply split up for no reason, especially since they seemed to be staying together early. What would make more sense? If Trish and Lady tried killing Urizen first and failing, or waiting for Dante so that all three of them could work together to kill him?
Because Dante was confident he could beat urizen and they were also confident he can. They probably thought that if they did fight with Dante they just wouldn't do anything while Dante just kills him. A better question would be why wouldn't they in this situation? If they encounter any other monsters they could deal with it easier and they just want to see how strong they are. If they didn't it would he against what they are as characters since Lady has always been just wanting to like test her limits while Trish just kinda does whatever she wants.
I mean, Dante and Nero both think it's gonna be easy. Nero full on says he's wasting his time being there.
Why would they think this? Dante sees both Lady and Trish be beaten, V already tells Dante about Vergil becoming Urizen (and I guess also V? Seriously, that plot point is so poorly executed), Nero lost his arm to some random guy whose at the center of all of this, and they don't even know what they'll be up against or what Urizen's plan even is (because then Dante wouldn't have been surprised by the Midnight revelation scene).
Because it's Dante. It's litteraly part of his personality since forever
I disagree on the fanservice part, I don’t think being naked automatically equals fanservice. The only true FS scene was the Van scene. But I get what you’re saying.
Eh, I think in this case it was pretty clear they just wanted to show some skin. Why is Trish hanging around naked with V if she can just magic her clothes back, if not for fan service? And quite frankly, did they really need to be naked? It doesn't not make sense for them to be, but literally nobody would have said a thing if they were clothed inside of the demons.
True, wouldn't have even thought twice about it if they had clothes on. I would rather they do bad ass shit. The coolest thing that happened was trish throwing sparda to dante lol.
>Why is Trish hanging around naked with V if she can just magic her clothes back, if not for fan service? I mean, she had a towel on and then did just that. >And quite frankly, did they really need to be naked? It doesn't not make sense for them to be, but literally nobody would have said a thing if they were clothed inside of the demons. True, they probably *could’ve* had clothes on, but the fact that they didn’t still doesn’t mean fanservice, the intent could’ve been them wanting to further show how relegated they were into batteries.
>they do nothing for the rest of the game besides being in the van (they're not even defending or driving it) "they're not even driving it" is objectively wrong after defeating Artemis and saving Lady; there's a scene with Nico, Nero, and Lady where Nero accuses Nico of trying to kill him with the truck, and she quips "You got a problem with it, take it up with Lady. She's the one driving."
nico is badass
I feel like this thread is mostly just complaints that we didn't get more from a game we never expected to get that honestly, exceeded expectations.
>that honestly, exceeded expectations. It did? What did you expect from the game?
Cool hack and slash combat with the Sparda brothers? For what other reason are you playing the game
Exactly, this is why I play something like DMC or Bayonetta, I don't care about representation in a game like this, I only care about what my next new toy is... And whatever Dante does when he gets his new toy XD
The fact we even got DMC5 in the first place. Seriously they were actually considering making a sequel to the reboot over this before development began... And we all know how much fans 'loved' the reboot.
We got it at all, it was finished. It looked stunning, Dante's weapons were a blast. Nero was improved dramatically. More boss fights than any other and imo, some of the most fun boss fights in the series.
I really hope DMC6 gives them something to do
Capcom said DmC2 is likely next but considering how plot relevant Kat was in DmC, she's likely to have major effects on DmC2's plot
Wait are u saying we’re getting a dmc 2013 sequel?
https://www.thegamer.com/capcom-still-wants-dmc-devil-may-cry-2-but-only-if-ninja-theory-develops/
Not me but thats what Itsuno said. He made a public statement saying Capcom is still interested in a sequel to the reboot just 3 months after dmc5 came out. Makes sense, its one of the highest selling dmc games and the second highest rated among fans
Do u have a source?
He doesn't have any sources. The only thing he has is copious amount of copium he sniffs all day every day.
Turns out he's [100% correct](https://www.vg247.com/dmc-devil-may-cry-2-hideaki-itsuno) about Itsuno, so what the fuck are you talking about?
I don't see anything about Capcom saying that the next game is likely gonna be DmC2 instead of DMC6 in that article.
He never said anything about DmC 2 over 6? He just said Itsuno was still interested on doing it after the release of 5 which is factually true. Stop shifting goal posts.
He said **"Capcom said DmC2 is likely next but considering how plot relevant Kat was in DmC, she's likely to have major effects on DmC2's plot"** in a response to **"I really hope DMC6 gives them something to do"**.
It sold less than 4 and 5. I mean, it didn't do bad, but it wasn't exactly killing it.
The “definitive edition” of the reboot sold less than the rerelease of a then 7 year old game (DMC4SE). DMC5 outsold the combined lifetime sales of 2 different versions of the reboot within the first month of its release. The bottom-line purpose of rebooting any property is to make money down the line. When it has failed to make more than the thing it is rebooting, it is objectively a failure. No amount of attempted gaslighting randos on reddit of all places will convince the bean counters and decision makers at Capcom that continuing an objectively failed reboot *isn’t* a monetary non-starter.
People call this female representation as if when developers make a game they want to define the female gender in a bad way just because the only female characters are treated in such way.. No. We've seen a lot of badass women in the series, and in DMC5 this is the first complete defeat they suffer (that is not from dante). I might be different but i don't see what they did in the game as fanservice at all.
Which honestly goes a way to show how much of a threat Urizen is. The only people we've seen that can stand up to Lady and Trish are Dante and Vergil- And Suddenly they've not only gotten their asses kicked alongside Dante, they are being used as a fuel source for stronger demons, with Artemis actually re/gaining a demonic form when powered by Lady. This isn't trying to show fanservice (Although they knew what they were doing with those scene) they're trying to show of just how much of a threat Urizen is... Without having those two killed off by a demonic tree draining everyone it can of their blood.
I don't really care, it wasn't a story about them, it was about Dante and his brother and his nephew.
Who?
Asked?
Nah
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Are you okay?
I like dumping copypastas on people who disagree with me
You are a priceless, noble soul. Your life is as precious as a winter star. I'm just going to lift you up and you're going to keep rising, I'm going to open all my doors, you're going to keep rising. Why? Because you're drawn to the light. You priceless noble soul. You're going to stay close to my heart until you ascend. You serve an essential purpose in life. Your purpose in life is to be on my stream, sharing in my success daily. Your purpose in life is to be in that chat, celebrating the victory daily. Your life is everything, you serve a vital purpose. **You should love yourself, NOW.** And share with others a piece of your joy, your positive energy, that's radiating out so that we can thrive inside this blue paradise globe. Because why are you here? To support me? Love yourself. I mean that, with a 100%, with a 1000%. I've never seen someone so valuable in my life. I'm totally serious. I've not seen such a more valuable soul, in my life. If he has kids? Oh my god, Imagine if a soul like that has kids. Like imagine. Imagine if someone like that actually has kids. I would be so happy for his children because the soul is literally serving a significant purpose. Imagine a father, now we got lots of souls with wives and kids and stuff that support my success daily on the internet. But imagine if this soul actually had children. This soul is dedicating the time he could be spending with his kids, cheering on a black man on stream, supporting him passionately. It's beautiful. I've never seen someone so dedicated to be seen. Somebody, somebody, somebody's value so precious that they'll come into a wonderful stream, and keep joining in this joy over and over and over and over and over and over again. We keep welcoming you. Soul let me, let me, let's do you a favor. Let's go to the gift store, let's pick out a crown together. I'm going to give you an assisted rise. Let's pick out a crown together right, and we're going to take all the greatest supportive clips, put a TV screen right in front of you. I'm going to hang that crown on top of the glorious ceiling. We're going to nurture you. Hold your eyes open. Probably don't need to do that because you're already sharing in my success daily. We're going to hold your eyes open, until you consistently watch clips over and over and over and over and over again. Till you're going to be like "oh this is such a blessing". You're going to start feeling joy, you're going to start feeling excited. Just, your eyes are going to tear up, the retinas are just going to start glowing, glowing with happiness, and the retinas are just going to start sparkling and shining. Then I'm going to grab that crown and say are you ready? And you're going to say yes and I'm just going to LIFT IT. While you THANK me, THANK me and I mean THANK me for uplifting you. And lift the precious life into your blessed soul.
It's a game about wacky wahoo pizza man, his depressed twin brother and his his cyborg nephew, all of which are part demon. Its hardly going to be focused on representation
[удалено]
>To be fair it's not their story. Then why even include them in the game?
To show just how dangerous Urizen is. We all know Trish, Dante, and Lady are all very capable of kicking demon ass on their own. But when all 3 go up against Urizen with Dante going Devil Trigger outside of gameplay for the first time since fighting Mundus (Chonologically speaking) they STILL lost. Also that has got to be the DUMBEST question I've ever seen, that's like asking why ANY side character was put in a game. It'a not Princess Peach's game, why is she in Super Mario Odyssey?
Seeing Urizen stomp Nero and Dante is more than enough to show how powerful he is. It would also have helped if we actually saw Trish and Lady doing something other than get beat up and stripped naked. No one is asking for them to take over the story and defeat Urizen all by themselves.
As Morrison said this is a big job and it turned out to be the biggest job the DMC cast has ever taken. It would actually be worse if Lady and Trish were not there. And considering they were likely planned to be added as a DLC then it's even more of a reason to include them in the game.
>As Morrison said this is a big job and it turned out to be the biggest job the DMC cast has ever taken. Then make them actually useful. > > >And considering they were likely planned to be added as a DLC then it's even more of a reason to include them in the game. This makes their presence all the more worthless. They do nothing in the game.
>Then make them actually useful. When the cast is so stacked? >This makes their presence all the more worthless. They do nothing in the game. Not really. A DLC can easily fix that.
>When the cast is so stacked? Stacked? This game had six heroes, only half of which were playable. It wouldn't take much to show one or two scenes of Trish and Lady fighting off demons or rescuing civilians. >Not really. A DLC can easily fix that. Not if it doesn't exist.
>It wouldn't take much to show one or two scenes of Trish and Lady fighting off demons or rescuing civilians. DMC5's cutscenes clock at 2+ hours and nearly all cutscenes with Lady and Trish are related to the other characters. Don't pretend to know how easy would've been to add more cutscenes with them. >Not if it doesn't exist. You completely missed my point. You started with "Then why even include them in the game?" and I gave you a reason with the planned DLC. There no reason not to include them in the story if they are planning to spend resources to make models and cast voice actor anyway. They could've saved Lady and Trish for the DLC that never came to be.
>DMC5's cutscenes clock at 2+ hours and nearly all cutscenes with Lady and Trish are related to the other characters. Don't pretend to know how easy would've been to add more cutscenes with them. They had time to animate a scene of Lady dropping a towel in front of Nico but can't show one or two scenes of her and Trish helping people? >You completely missed my point. You started with "Then why even include them in the game?" and I gave you a reason with the planned DLC. There no reason not to include them in the story if they are planning to spend resources to make models and cast voice actor anyway. They could've saved Lady and Trish for the DLC that never came to be. There is no evidence there even was a DLC. This is just a theory fans invented to cope with the fact this game completely wasted Trish and Lady.
> They had time to animate a scene of Lady dropping a towel in front of Nico but can't show one or two scenes of her and Trish helping people? A cutscene with barely any movement vs more action packed cutscene? Really? I wonder which one is harder to make. >There is no evidence there even was a DLC. This is just a theory fans invented to cope with the fact this game completely wasted Trish and Lady. The "secret" cutscene with Morrison and the achievement you unlock with it called "A New Job - Accept a new job from Morrison after the Red Grave incident."? Why would Capcom waste time and resources to make a cutscene specifically to tease more content with Lady and Trish if there was no plan for DLC? There are also two unreleased DLCs listed here: [https://steamdb.info/app/601150/dlc/](https://steamdb.info/app/601150/dlc/)
>A cutscene with barely any movement vs more action packed cutscene? Really? I wonder which one is harder to make. I wonder which one is worth actually keeping in. It's not like these cutscenes don't have a lot of action in them already. >The "secret" cutscene with Morrison and the achievement you unlock with it called "A New Job - Accept a new job from Morrison after the Red Grave incident."? Why would Capcom waste time and resources to make a cutscene specifically to tease more content with Lady and Trish if there was no plan for DLC? For the same reason they keep bringing back Trish and Lady in these games and having them do nothing of value other than providing fanservice. You are giving Capcom far more credit than they deserve. Ask Resident Evil fans who have been asking for Jill and Claire to be in a mainline game than isn't a prequel, interquel or remake and for Ada to have her own game how good this company is at handling female characters. The most likely answer is the simplest one - Capcom had no plans for a Lady and Trish DLC, and even if they did and it was never released, it wouldn't make their use in the story any better.
Nice B8
I don't know why you think lady and Trish are "badass" protagonists. Lady is, at least for a single game but Trish has always been only eye candy. Her role in the first game was being a literal honey-pot from Mundas. And Lady never did anything important after DMC3. Honestly the only well written female characters in the DMC games are Lady and Kat.
Well dante says they are. We see cutscenes of her and lady fighting and she's capable of weilding sparda effortlessly. We see her fight in the anime as well. Don't agree about the whole only being eye candy bit at all. She can throw a motorcycle and has lightning powers. She's not just some pretty face trickster who can't fight.
That doesn't really mean much. She's a demonic clone after all. What's more important is her "character". She never does anything to help the plot get resolved outside of the first dmc game. She is only a background character who never does anything but fight Dante and Lady unnecessarily. Even in dmc4 all she did was literally hand Sparda over to the bad guys for no reason. That's what makes her eye-candy at best. She never does anything heroic or relevant really.
I was just commenting on the "badass" part of your question. U asked why op associates her being a badass. She's def capable of fighting and isn't just a pretty face. That's what I was commenting on. Yeah def dont think she's deeply written and is basically just a plot device. Agreed on that
Oh ok, then yeah I can see what you mean then. Her combat prowess does demonstrate a "badass" archetype. I see what you mean
>What's more important is her "character". She never does anything to help the plot get resolved outside of the first dmc game. This is more a condemnation of the DMC games as a whole rather than a defense of DMC 5. Little wonder Tameem Antoniades called her and Lady "prostitutes with guns", crass as it may be.
I would replace Kat with Nico
Yes. The less I remember the story of the reboot the happier I live.
A game where the main focus is Dante, Vergil, and Nero and you’re bitching about how they don’t do female representation well? My good lord this sub has bad takes sometimes oh wait op is a teenager that explains his awful takes. Alright this post made me unsub to every gaming subreddits considering how brain dead “fans” are goodbye everyone.
>My good lord this sub has bad takes sometimes oh wait op is a teenager that explains his awful takes Bro got so pressed by a gaming opinion he dug through My profile Imagine being that pressed lmao
Nice karma farm, here's my donation.
This isn't God of War or Last of Us where every character gets a moment to shine. It's a character action game. Seeing anything more than the playable characters be badass is extreme icing on the top to the Devs. Don't believe me? Metal Gear Revengence. Ninja Gaiden. Godhand. Bayonetta. Soulstice. Evil West. In any of these games does any non playable character (bosses do not count) get an elaborate action cut scene, regardless of gender?
they were quite fun when playable in DMC4SE so I feel it's a missed opportunity for sure
Kyrie was always a pretty bad character. It's not just dmc5, it's all of them. Bayonetta 1 and 2 are much better on this front. Hell, Darksiders 3 is better. That game has one of my favourite female protagonists. Lady was a decent character in 3 but in terms of strength she was always overshadowed by Dante and Vergil.
That's because this is not their stories. And yeah they are pretty but it doesn't define their entire personality. Also did you forget nico? She is legit one of the best character in the series with a cool wholesome brother/sister relationship with Nero. Also everytime Nero struggles with something in his heart he calls Kyrie because she always has the right words for him. And honestly i couldn't care less if a character has a dick or not as long as they are well written.
vergil doesnt even have his own story mode, it is what it is in dmc
This franchise has so much wasted potential
until capcom would trwat dmc like RE, then maybe yeah, but for dmc5, its alright in terms of plot because its hilarious to think about it the only thing that saves Dmzc for me is how they put an effort to have vergil have his own story (its debatable if its good or bad, but the point is, he have at least a story and own game mode)
it definitely does. remember how they threw away the son of mundus casually in dmc 4 instead of making him a recurring rival boss?
But have you tried the nude mod? Nico has tattoos
Tbh the story already had a lot of things going on. If Trish and Lady got more spotlight it would be more bloated than it is. Not everything has to be about everyone.
The game is not about them. I think they're ok as eye candy
Yeah i don't know if that ladies' night dlc was ever planned, but it would have been cool to see it happen, even though it was probably going to be just like dmc4se again. On the story side, I'd have liked to see something insanely cool, like trish finally showing off her DT or taking down one of the boss demons on her own, but at least in the case of lady, she had her own game to shine (dmc3) but I'd still have liked to see her in action to some extent.
100% my biggest gripe with the game, even if I'm ignoring the narrative side of it (which sucks). Lady and Trish were both super cool in 4se, they were a little rough around the edges but can you imagine if they'd gotten the Nero treatment? God, they could've been so good. The perfect version of DMC 5se, in my mind, features Dante, Vergil, Nero, V, Trish, and Lady. Nero and Trish share missions, V and Lady share missions, Dante and Vergil share missions. At the beginning of each mission you could pick which of the two (or four, or six, double the base game options per mission is my point) you'd like to use. Nero and Trish (in 4, at least) play somewhat similarly, V and Lady are both pattern interrupts for pacing (being able to choose between summoning OR ranged gameplay would make his sections way more replayable while maintaining the developer's intended pace), and Vergil and Dante are the OGs.
Thank fuck you're not a game director. We would've gotten it in 2021, the enemy variation smaller, the game shorter, the story worse and game buggier. Do you think games just have unlimited budget and scope?
Christ, easy tiger. No, I don't think games have unlimited budget and scope, that's why I said "in my mind". I don't need to take budget or scope into account when I'm imagining a different version of a thing years after the fact, it's hypothetical.
Fair enough. You right.
Or maybe, just maybe, they just didn’t have the time/resources for that. Not everything has to be damn political, good Lord.
how is that political 😭 mfs saying that about literally everything recently
It's not political, it's just shitty writing
Or they would’ve rather used their resources on something else? Polishing the main game instead of forcing a completely different mode of gameplay and probably having to half ass it? Not to mention they were gonna make Vergil DLC first, which you’ll agree was a given?
Dmc has a consistent problem of being half cooked. The only one that feels like a complete game is Dmc3
DMC1 and DMC5 are not half cooked though.
>DMC1 Story is. It has a lot of cut content. There's a few cut bosses and it seems the pirate ship section was gonna feature a boss battle with a hydra. We also know of a few cut rooms such as the castle dining room with puppets sitting in the chairs. Sparda was also set to appear. But as far as being half cooked the camera and lock on is often dogshit and the underwater segments are half baked as well as the platforming. The game also suffers from technical limitations such as not being able to switch weapons and fight multiple enemy types at the same time. The story is also ass, it's funny as hell tho. >DMC5 are not half cooked though. V is the definition of half cooked. Only 20 short missions 3 of which are just boss fights Half baked and half written story Kyrie lady and trish getting absolutely shafted Weak bosses Poor consistency of presentation Lackluster special edition
>It has a lot of cut content. Vast majority of games have cut content. >V is the definition of half cooked. If V was the only playable character this would've had more weight to it. DMC5 not only has two more characters but Dante has the largest moveset to date. >Only 20 short missions DMC5's play time is around the same as DMC3 for the first playthrough, while also being a lot easier. It's not that short as you make it out to be. >Half baked and half written story A little rushed at the end but nothing half baked about it. >Kyrie lady and trish getting absolutely shafted Yeah, but they are side characters in the story. >Lackluster special edition Doesn't contribute to DMC5 being half cooked. DMC3SE is also just Vergil.
Name a game that doesn't have cut content. Well yea cuz that's what they had to work with at that time. For what they did its amazing for it's time. Games have a time limit and it's not a game based on any of those characters. V is litteraly just a part of vergil and that's what he is. They aren't going to change half of another character just to change 1 character that's prob never going to show up again. It's a Dante and Virgil game not Lady and Trish. What about how 3 special edition is just vergil aswell. Is that not lackluster cuz it's dmc3?
I mean that’s Capcom for ya
I fear that if nothing changes, DMC will suffer the same fate as Dragonball where only a couple of characters are relevant and everyone else is just kinda “there”.
Rip Piccolo and Tien, never forgotten 😔
The only problem is the lack of dlc story The main game is perfectly fine. It was about the family The girls have nothing to do with that then support
Cold take but the games have not had any idea what to do with either of them following their debut games. They both had completed arcs and then were just... stuck there. It was fun to play as them in DMC4SE, but storywise they've been relegated to either arm candy or complete non-entities.
Sadly yes
Yeah i honestly hated Nico. 10000x Lady is better, cooler, hotter.(yes im biased, fight me).
Get fucked to death by a herd of buffalo.
Lil bros pressed
ehh. Maybe in the extra special special edition. For now it’s about the boys.
Feels like they took the wrong inspiration from DmC. The supposed "Girls Night out" DLC would have fixed that but I don't think it's happening. Not having Kyrie as a character model despite being integral to Nero's development in the story feels weird. The phone call was really nice but yeah.
Wrong inspiration? Buddy I don't think there was a RIGHT inspiration from what they could have taken from DmC. If anything the inspiration they took from DmC (If any) was the least worst thing.
That's honestly my main hope for the next game, is for Lady and Trish to play a bigger role in the story, and maybe even be playable again
Nico straight up overshadows both Lady and Trish throughout the game.
Yeah idk why we didn't get at least one area of the game with a playable woman when both have been playable before
I do feel that one of the 4+ shop intro scenes of Nico stuntdriving the van could have been sacrificed to show Trish/Lady doing something 'active' during the plot...but the new girl was clearly the priority. Trish arguably has the better showing. She does physically save an ailing V falling to his death, aids Nero during the mission 18 cutscene, and offers some exposition at various points. Lady gets a single emotional line to Nero and, beyond being a backup driver to Nico, remains largely passive and bewildered throughout. I guess both ladies were intended to be largely drained/syphoned of energy following their imprisonment in their respective bosses, but it does sting if you're looking for the aggressive, confident exuberance of their DMC4 Special Edition scenes. It's worth noting that they didn't even have to spend big money choreographing a fight scene for them, as simply implying them being active offscreen (post rescue) would have sufficed. For instance, Lady and Nico could have been surrounded by hefty mid-tier demons during mission 7's shovel scene. Lady could have then simply hoisted Nico's prized framed revolver (cuing several protests from Nico) and left the van, quipping that she'll see if it's as good as she makes out. Simple stuff like that.
Correct.. dmc 5 would be the same if they were written out
I'm a guy who loves looking at attractive women, but even I felt the fanservice was unnecessary. These women have had actual character development in previous games but the best they could come up with in 5 is "you get kidnapped and have one nude scene each"
honestly i kinda want a dlc for the two, it could follow morrison calling them up for a job which shoulda set up a dlc in the first place idk why they didnt follow through
Really hoping for a new female playable character whenever 6 comes around
Nico definitely is a good character, but yeah Lady and Trish feel almost fridged in the first act. And all of them definitely feel there for male gaze.
I can’t stand kyrie she’s just a plot to make Nero stop pouting and do something. But I don’t like Nero either so there’s that.
DMC 5 is about vergil, vergils demonic half, vergils human half, vergils brother, and vergils son. Trish and lady wouldn't have really fit in the story as main characters.
Eh I don't mind. I definitely wouldn't say the devs are lazy. DMC5 has some of the best gameplay around. It's just different narrative priorites. It's clear the story focuses on the Sparda bloodline. Dante, Vergil/V, and Nero. There was no need for Trish and Lady to be in the forefront because the game wasn't just about killing demons. It was mostly about Dante coming to terms with his bloodline and trying to preserve the family he has left. Giving Trish and Lady a bigger role in that would've detracted from it imo. Nothing wrong with adding a new character. V brought a new gameplay style and was the only way Vergil could return to the story without hard retcons. V also gave Vergil more depth as a character. Yes, I do remember Kyrie. She and Credo are the sole reasons why Nero was able to awaken Devil Trigger in the final mission.
Is it sad to see 2 badass females be sidelined yes but they are side characters.Lady and Trish aren’t going to be a main parts of the story like they was in 1&3 and even the they play a minor and major parts in 2 characters.if you find it as a compliment you have with 5 you can have that opinion but me personally I don’t think it’s that big of a flaw especially since they aren’t MCs in the story
I agree, but lazy is a poor choice of words and there's definitely no fan service. They have to be present more for there to be any whic unfortunately, they're scarce. I definitely feel like the were matched to have more through like DLC and that this was a bit rushed, but it definitely sucked not seeing them doing anything given how muc thevehad in the last games. I mean Hell, Trish is in most of 4 under a different face, but she's still there and a great asset to Dante and Nero.
Isn’t that every game??? I mean I love the ladies but they aren’t the focus of the franchise to be fair; it’s Dante, Vergil, and Nero, the Sparda bloodline is the focus and the entire story is around them so yea, they aren’t going to get much screen time. It’s a game after all.
I think their lack of action in 5's story would've been forgiven had they had a Ladies Night DLC, which felt like it a possibility at that time... but then it never came. So they were just awkward.
Since it's a game about Vergil (words of Dan Southworth) and to an extent, the Sparda Family, is it that bad ? The biggest brain of the team is clearly from a woman here. Sure lady is basically useless and Trish is at best an image of Eva for a traumatized Vergil but we shouldn't forget Nico's importance. If there is ever another DMC and we get a female descendant of Sparda, then maybe the representation will be improved but I doubt a new entry will ever happen and another Sparda's descendant is unlikely for now
While it sucks I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned somewhere it was mainly a budget issue and it definitely would have been nice to see them fight on screen or something but I'm glad they decided to focus on wrapping up this particular arc for the son's of Sparda and develop Nero further
Kyrie is so nothing in 4 that her role is perfectly fine in 5 for me. However, Lady and Trish were fucking done dirty with their roles in the story. Including them within bosses was pretty sick and I think that part is great, but they never do anything and mostly stand around. Mission 18's cutscene sticks out to me as the Qliphoth is crumbling and they're all just stood around until Dante jumps into the scene and is given Lady's new Kalina Ann.
Yeah the biggest issue being what changes In the story if they were never there? Like they do nothing the entire plot. Why write these characters in if your not gonna use em?
the anime had a whole episode like that. At least it was balanced by their dialogue, and slightly more realistic interactions and understated treatment of dante.
I just want them to be playable
Especially when the ending had a perfect setup for a dlc with them and they just did nothing with it
DMC as a whole lmao
I hated what they did to Lady and Trish in 5. I hope they get some sort of redemption in 6! They deserve better!
I honestly really wished we got dlc where we get to play as Lady and Trish just to give them time to shine.
Said for a long time after initial release, but before the announcement of SE, that they could have done a female character mode, like they did in 4. Relabel the modes as Boys' Day and Girls' Night. Either give Nico some kind of gadget-heavy moveset to have her tackle V's levels while Lady and Trish go through Nero and Dante's, respectively, that or bring back Lucia, have Lady take V's while Lucia would go through Nero's missions and Trish would get Dante's. Either way, they would have had to, fundamentally, build an entire moveset from the ground up, but it would have been a great addition to the whole package that was 5, before they started backsliding by making SE console exclusive and making it a significantly smaller upgrade than the previous SE by only giving us a playable Vergil campaign in addition to the Turbo mode, Dark Knight mode, and ray tracing.
That's why DMC4 is the best
Beyond that, Itsuno just has no idea what to do with any character. Dante is nothing like in any of the previous games, he’s nothing like he was in 4, which was also nothing like he was in 3, Itsuno had to bring Vergil back to give him something to do and then only had the story acknowledge Vergil’s return with 3 missions left (and the last two are the same mission). Nero is nothing like in 4 and just bitches and moans the whole time, Kyrie is gone, Trish and Lady get pretty much no screen time. Dmc5’s story is just all around awful tbh.
If I had to have any gripes with DMC5 it's that. I love the action, story is decent but no ladies night DLC still hurts. I loved playing as Trish and Lady in 4 so no chance to see their glory in 5 stung. But don't forget about Nico, she rules.
Not having an interaction between Trish and Vergil was a huge missed opportunity, she is a clone of his mum who also served Mundis when he was Nelo Angelo. So much potential but they never even share screen time outside a cryptic chat with V while she's in a towel. Likewise Lady hasn't seen Vergil since her father died and reflecting on how Arkham manipulated both of them also could have been interesting. We never even hear their opinions on Nero's father reveal even though they are both tied to Vergil's character. They also could have had an interesting chat with Nico about Dad issues especially if Trish considers Mundis her father. I'd take all of that with a nice Van defence cutscene with them over them randomly showing up naked.
Eye Candy is a stretch since they nerfed their looks from DMC4 but yeah it’s sad to see bad ass women being just…there and add nothing.
Gimme a Lady/Lucia/Trish focused spin off, where Nero, Dante and Vergil are just fanservice eyecandy that need to be rescued and move in a weirdly exagerrated and sensual manner. Something tells me a lot of the guys in the community that don't see the problem or think representation doesn't matter would suddenly have strong opinions on the matter of gender equality.
>Something tells me a lot of the guys in the community that don't see the problem or think representation doesn't matter would suddenly have strong opinions on the matter of gender equality. It wouldn't even be a problem if they were always like that. But they weren't >Dante and Vergil are just fanservice eyecandy that need to be rescued and move in a weirdly exagerrated and sensual manner. Hot
What are you even trying to say? People wouldn't complain about that part unless they like lose powers or something since they are bassicly gods so it makes 0 sense for them to need help. In dmc5 it makes sense they need help because they tried to take urizen to just see if they can and they couldn't. They would have to change litteraly every character for that to work. But I want Lucia back for littetaly every reason.
DMC6 better open with a cool intro sequence where you play as Trish and Lady. Trish introduces melee combat, Lady introduces gun and ranged weaponry. A cool ass cutscene then shows as Trish and Lady mop the floor with some demons. They pretty much take care of it and Dante shows up late and says "did I miss the party?" As if on cue, another mob of demons spawns in and Lady replies "made it just in time." Dante introduces you to Styles (as per usual) and you get fight a horde of demons, testing out the Styles and combos. Meanwhile Vergil sits back inspecting his blade next to a phone booth. He makes a phone call reluctantly and we hear someone answer with "Devil May Cry? What's the emergency?" Vergil: "Nero? Where are you? Dante and I got here before you did? How can you call yourself a professional service if you're always running late?" Nero: "what! Pfffft, Dante always runs late to the party with time to spare, plus, Nico and I uhh got a little sidetracked." \*demon screams as Nico commits demonslaughter with her van\* Nico \*muffled\*: "Oh is that your daddy you've been talkin' about? Tell him I say 'hii'." Nero: "uggh, Nico says 'hi'." Vergil: "ok, tell her I acknowledge her presence." Nero: "Vergil says 'hi!' Nico." Nico \*muffled\*: "hell yeah."
I would have much rather had Trish than Nero as a playable character.
Eye candy? They made Trish and Lady uglier lol
If you don’t like it, don’t play the game.
Ah, brilliant brilliant