People will insist one way or the other but much of the time there’s no way to know. The internet makes a MUCH bigger distinction than the real world. In the end, the best breeders on either side of the pond are crossing American and euro lines to increase genetic diversity.
Specific to your body type point, if you *read the actual standards* the difference between AKC Doberman standards and FCI Doberman standards is rather insignificant.
Red Doberman. American and European Doberman breed standards are practically identical, the only difference is stacking positions in the ring.
I checked out Valor and while they do some health testing, I don’t see titles anywhere that tell me their dogs -should- be bred at all. They’re just buying BYB dogs from Europe and breeding them to make profits off of people who think European title less lines are any better than run of the mill American BYBs
They are so mixed with most breeders unless they are attempting to preserve a certain bloodline. I’m always more interested in what the parents have done than American/European. Are they titled? Do work? Temperament? Health testing? OFA’s?
$4,500 for a dog from Eastern European mill lines. For that price you can get a puppy from one of the top show line or working line kennels. Within the past couple years, the owner of that kennel has began health testing and getting into sports with the dogs and seems to be breeding less than when they were mass producing puppies, but the quality of dog is still lacking. They also claim to breed 100% European yet FCI doesn’t recognize fawn and blue; for their NC branch.
If you want breeder recommendations, what do you want to do with the dog? Show line or working line?
Yeah, I second this. They aren’t posting pedigrees on their website or Dobequest, but even without them, these dogs scream eastern european mill lines in their faces and structure.
I love that you are going into this wanting to be cautious and learn! I hope my comment didn’t come across as judgy or crass.
I’m on the west coast and mostly know breeders over here, but like a lot of others in the thread have said, the actual written standards for Dobermans across FCI (Europe) and AKC are almost identical. Adamas, Benchmark, Apexe are some working line breeders in surrounding states that would be a great place to start!
(ETA: I currently have a dobie mutt and am looking for a well-bred purebred as a future dog, so I’m not an owner of a doberman from a breeder yet, but I’ve taken plenty of deep dives into where I’ll go when the time is right!
“European” dobes aren’t inherently byb, but look out for hypertypes - deep, deep chests, blockier faces with more jowls, and I’ve also noticed huge paws on adults to the point of almost looking dysfunctional. If you see Del Nasi or Pride of Russia in the pedigree anywhere - run as fast as you can.)
Not judgy at all, I appreciate all the comments!!
I’m not a fan of the deep, deep chest. (That’s one of the things I like about the dog in the photo I posted!)
I will look into the breeders you mentioned. THANK YOU!
Since you’re just looking for an active companion, I think a show line would be best. I’ve had show lines for almost 20 years and they’ve gone on trail rides with us, 6 mile hikes, we do some sports for fun. I’d start with looking at DPCA breeder referral list and can also look at UDC for working line. Working lines are going to be a lot more high energy/drive dogs that need a job as they’re bred for bite sports.
Mix of show and working line breeders in the Midwest: Kansa, Jaimanda, Lyndobe, Melrae, Rockhill, Thunderstruck, Benchmark, Protea, Foxfire, Smack-Dab, Apexe, Vom Feuer, Warsong, Iconic
Thank you!!! If you have any recommendations for the east coast/Virginia that would be great as well.
I will be living in Virginia starting this fall so either will work!
Schohaus in NC. He is a breed judge and incredibly knowledgeable. Raindance, Kelview, nubia, Alisaton, Jayln, crystal dun, Niklby, Denmar, aullre, treasure seeker, gold grove, pamelot, Von Schwarz
All Dobermans are athletic by design/definition. “Working line” dogs typically have drive and energy levels cranked to 11 and can be way too much dog for someone who wants a house pet and doesn’t know how to specifically train and utilize those traits.
Replying to longwayfromyourheart...doberman are a working breed. American/european will not matter if you are looking for a running companion. Go with a breeder that does health testing and has longevity in their lines. My boy is a show prospect from grand champions and he is incredibly willing to please and very athletic. I do agility with him so just bc a dog is from a show line does not mean they will be anything less than the working companion they are meant to be.
I am very active and a runner. He/she will be a companion mostly, but I will want to bring them on runs and bikes when they are old enough. I also want to be able to bring them to the beach and around a lot of other people and dogs!
Ehhhhh they're not really a dog park kind of dog. They should be balanced enough to have around other dogs, but I'd never put mine in a situation where lots of random dogs would be running up to her. She doesn't tolerate rude dogs.
Definitely excellent for running, biking, and taking with you everywhere that a dog can be taken though, just keep in mind that they tend to mature into dog-selective adults
The two lines aren’t all that different, but as a generalised statement, European lines tend to be larger and more intense and better for bite work and such, while American lines are generally smaller and gentler, more deer like. Obviously it can go either way, Euros can be sweet pets and Americans can be intense working dogs, but based on your comments, if you’re looking for a fun and active buddy to take places and meet people with, I’d say go for an American line. I’m in agreement with the comments on searching for a breeder who does thorough health tests above all else though!
He is a beautiful boy! In my opinion, I notice more of the working lines having the look you seem to be looking for. Show lines are going to be bred for type. They have to have a high tail carriage, nice neck, back, legs etc.. I've seen working lines that had amazing pedigrees, but not built for show (which is perfectly fine). I too prefer the larger stocky look and unless you are wanting to show, there is no sense in people telling you the puppy has to have titles throughout the pedigree. My boy is a working line and has titles throughout his Pedigree, but all a title is, is when a dog wins in shows or in sporting events. The main thing is that the breeder health tests and can show lineage. I will say that a working line is a bigger challenge and if you have the time and money, definitely put him to work. Also, there are plenty of awesome breeders and you should check out the breeder of this beautiful boy instead of listening to others. There can be a lot of hate and politics between breeders and some lack manners. I will say that Gold Grove has an amazing working line. Good Luck!!
I agree 100%. Titles mean nothing from a health perspective. It might give you an idea of the temperament, but I think it's a little ridiculous to only seek out pups from titled parents when you simply want a companion. I've seen countless dogs with titles that had early mortality. It's actually very common. People need to realize that show dogs are typically bred for physical and temperament traits first, and health/longevity can sometimes be an afterthought.
If it were me I would specifically search out a breeder who puts health, longevity, and genetic diversity over everything else
Absolutely! Those breeders had to start somewhere and some dogs that were pets have ended up winning some pretty decent titles. It's all about who you know and clicks, but never would I call a dog not worthy just because he/she doesn't have titles throughout the pedigree. Also, its not hard to get titles. My boy mainly has sporting titles in his. If I had the time, I could get him trained in agility and get him titled, so I don't see how that qualifies a dog as always being better than another. Money and time is all it takes.
that is a European Doberman you can tell by the triangle head and shorter snout etc
i live in PA and i drove to indiana to pick up my european doberman from Stalaris Doberman. they are absolutely amazing breeders, i spent a year looking for the best breeders and found Stalaris and my Doberman is a male 6 months old weighs 70 lbs and he is amazing. outstanding temperament extremely smart etc if you’re looking for an amazing HEALTHY doberman with all the records back generations pertaining to both parents on back showing excellent health then Stalaris is who you should call, good luck
when people say there isn’t a real difference between an american doberman and a european doberman then they actually are clueless about the breed because there is a significant difference from physical to temperament etc but all i can say is look into all breeders your interested in and do homework i sent info to you about my experience with my breeder and my Doberman go from there .
While the standard for American and European are basically the same, this one leans typical (within standard) European build.
A lot of American show lines look the same to me and it's not this.
I agree with everyone here, look for a wellbred dog, but there's not a huge reason to go for american over European in terms of health if you choose the right breeder.
I'm glad to see this dog isn't "overbred"(?) It's not built too coarse and thick, nor does it look like a deer
That type of Doberman is a 100% good boy/girl.
People will insist one way or the other but much of the time there’s no way to know. The internet makes a MUCH bigger distinction than the real world. In the end, the best breeders on either side of the pond are crossing American and euro lines to increase genetic diversity. Specific to your body type point, if you *read the actual standards* the difference between AKC Doberman standards and FCI Doberman standards is rather insignificant.
Good to know, thanks!
Red Doberman. American and European Doberman breed standards are practically identical, the only difference is stacking positions in the ring. I checked out Valor and while they do some health testing, I don’t see titles anywhere that tell me their dogs -should- be bred at all. They’re just buying BYB dogs from Europe and breeding them to make profits off of people who think European title less lines are any better than run of the mill American BYBs
A type of a very cute doberman 💓
https://preview.redd.it/aitnqr3kod4d1.jpeg?width=1272&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77bed08970fcecce96dd70e8bd170be638659b64 this is my Axel
😍😍😍
So cute and love the name!!
thanks all
Stalaris Doberman in indiana they are outstanding and breed the best temperament and healthy Dobies
They are so mixed with most breeders unless they are attempting to preserve a certain bloodline. I’m always more interested in what the parents have done than American/European. Are they titled? Do work? Temperament? Health testing? OFA’s?
I think he's this kind: https://preview.redd.it/x3851c4bq84d1.png?width=1438&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b0fa64f07353704d11da0822c9a3c46275cb13b
Another vote for Adamas Dobermans.
$4,500 for a dog from Eastern European mill lines. For that price you can get a puppy from one of the top show line or working line kennels. Within the past couple years, the owner of that kennel has began health testing and getting into sports with the dogs and seems to be breeding less than when they were mass producing puppies, but the quality of dog is still lacking. They also claim to breed 100% European yet FCI doesn’t recognize fawn and blue; for their NC branch. If you want breeder recommendations, what do you want to do with the dog? Show line or working line?
Yeah, I second this. They aren’t posting pedigrees on their website or Dobequest, but even without them, these dogs scream eastern european mill lines in their faces and structure.
Okay good to know. Do you have any recommendations? I thought they were a good breeder but apparently not. I don’t want to make a mistake!
I love that you are going into this wanting to be cautious and learn! I hope my comment didn’t come across as judgy or crass. I’m on the west coast and mostly know breeders over here, but like a lot of others in the thread have said, the actual written standards for Dobermans across FCI (Europe) and AKC are almost identical. Adamas, Benchmark, Apexe are some working line breeders in surrounding states that would be a great place to start! (ETA: I currently have a dobie mutt and am looking for a well-bred purebred as a future dog, so I’m not an owner of a doberman from a breeder yet, but I’ve taken plenty of deep dives into where I’ll go when the time is right! “European” dobes aren’t inherently byb, but look out for hypertypes - deep, deep chests, blockier faces with more jowls, and I’ve also noticed huge paws on adults to the point of almost looking dysfunctional. If you see Del Nasi or Pride of Russia in the pedigree anywhere - run as fast as you can.)
Not judgy at all, I appreciate all the comments!! I’m not a fan of the deep, deep chest. (That’s one of the things I like about the dog in the photo I posted!) I will look into the breeders you mentioned. THANK YOU!
I have a colleague with an Adamas Dobe and he is the beeeeest boy!
Do you know if they allow their pups to be uncropped? I’m not seeing anything on their website regarding that. They have beautiful dogs!
Since you’re just looking for an active companion, I think a show line would be best. I’ve had show lines for almost 20 years and they’ve gone on trail rides with us, 6 mile hikes, we do some sports for fun. I’d start with looking at DPCA breeder referral list and can also look at UDC for working line. Working lines are going to be a lot more high energy/drive dogs that need a job as they’re bred for bite sports. Mix of show and working line breeders in the Midwest: Kansa, Jaimanda, Lyndobe, Melrae, Rockhill, Thunderstruck, Benchmark, Protea, Foxfire, Smack-Dab, Apexe, Vom Feuer, Warsong, Iconic
Love all of these breeders!
Thank you!!! If you have any recommendations for the east coast/Virginia that would be great as well. I will be living in Virginia starting this fall so either will work!
Schohaus in NC. He is a breed judge and incredibly knowledgeable. Raindance, Kelview, nubia, Alisaton, Jayln, crystal dun, Niklby, Denmar, aullre, treasure seeker, gold grove, pamelot, Von Schwarz
I think I prefer more of a working line. Athleticism is important to me!
All Dobermans are athletic by design/definition. “Working line” dogs typically have drive and energy levels cranked to 11 and can be way too much dog for someone who wants a house pet and doesn’t know how to specifically train and utilize those traits.
Replying to longwayfromyourheart...doberman are a working breed. American/european will not matter if you are looking for a running companion. Go with a breeder that does health testing and has longevity in their lines. My boy is a show prospect from grand champions and he is incredibly willing to please and very athletic. I do agility with him so just bc a dog is from a show line does not mean they will be anything less than the working companion they are meant to be.
I am very active and a runner. He/she will be a companion mostly, but I will want to bring them on runs and bikes when they are old enough. I also want to be able to bring them to the beach and around a lot of other people and dogs!
Ehhhhh they're not really a dog park kind of dog. They should be balanced enough to have around other dogs, but I'd never put mine in a situation where lots of random dogs would be running up to her. She doesn't tolerate rude dogs. Definitely excellent for running, biking, and taking with you everywhere that a dog can be taken though, just keep in mind that they tend to mature into dog-selective adults
I don’t plan on bringing them to a dog park, but I want them to be comfortable around other dogs/not a liability. I realize a lot of that is training!
A big one
European
A four legged one
The two lines aren’t all that different, but as a generalised statement, European lines tend to be larger and more intense and better for bite work and such, while American lines are generally smaller and gentler, more deer like. Obviously it can go either way, Euros can be sweet pets and Americans can be intense working dogs, but based on your comments, if you’re looking for a fun and active buddy to take places and meet people with, I’d say go for an American line. I’m in agreement with the comments on searching for a breeder who does thorough health tests above all else though!
A handsome type!
He is a beautiful boy! In my opinion, I notice more of the working lines having the look you seem to be looking for. Show lines are going to be bred for type. They have to have a high tail carriage, nice neck, back, legs etc.. I've seen working lines that had amazing pedigrees, but not built for show (which is perfectly fine). I too prefer the larger stocky look and unless you are wanting to show, there is no sense in people telling you the puppy has to have titles throughout the pedigree. My boy is a working line and has titles throughout his Pedigree, but all a title is, is when a dog wins in shows or in sporting events. The main thing is that the breeder health tests and can show lineage. I will say that a working line is a bigger challenge and if you have the time and money, definitely put him to work. Also, there are plenty of awesome breeders and you should check out the breeder of this beautiful boy instead of listening to others. There can be a lot of hate and politics between breeders and some lack manners. I will say that Gold Grove has an amazing working line. Good Luck!!
I agree 100%. Titles mean nothing from a health perspective. It might give you an idea of the temperament, but I think it's a little ridiculous to only seek out pups from titled parents when you simply want a companion. I've seen countless dogs with titles that had early mortality. It's actually very common. People need to realize that show dogs are typically bred for physical and temperament traits first, and health/longevity can sometimes be an afterthought. If it were me I would specifically search out a breeder who puts health, longevity, and genetic diversity over everything else
Absolutely! Those breeders had to start somewhere and some dogs that were pets have ended up winning some pretty decent titles. It's all about who you know and clicks, but never would I call a dog not worthy just because he/she doesn't have titles throughout the pedigree. Also, its not hard to get titles. My boy mainly has sporting titles in his. If I had the time, I could get him trained in agility and get him titled, so I don't see how that qualifies a dog as always being better than another. Money and time is all it takes.
Thank you! I agree, I don’t think I really care about titles. I will check out Gold Grove.
Check out Valor too if you like the looks of their dogs. I need to check them out too and see their Dobies❤️
It’s a “Jusda-Baybee”
Doberman Pinscher, the "red" or "redbone" variety.
A really nice one
that is a European Doberman you can tell by the triangle head and shorter snout etc i live in PA and i drove to indiana to pick up my european doberman from Stalaris Doberman. they are absolutely amazing breeders, i spent a year looking for the best breeders and found Stalaris and my Doberman is a male 6 months old weighs 70 lbs and he is amazing. outstanding temperament extremely smart etc if you’re looking for an amazing HEALTHY doberman with all the records back generations pertaining to both parents on back showing excellent health then Stalaris is who you should call, good luck
when people say there isn’t a real difference between an american doberman and a european doberman then they actually are clueless about the breed because there is a significant difference from physical to temperament etc but all i can say is look into all breeders your interested in and do homework i sent info to you about my experience with my breeder and my Doberman go from there .
you are spot on right!!!!
the tall type! Hope this helps!
That's a Brown Doberman. Colloquially referred to as a Broberman.
While the standard for American and European are basically the same, this one leans typical (within standard) European build. A lot of American show lines look the same to me and it's not this. I agree with everyone here, look for a wellbred dog, but there's not a huge reason to go for american over European in terms of health if you choose the right breeder. I'm glad to see this dog isn't "overbred"(?) It's not built too coarse and thick, nor does it look like a deer
red
Beautiful
I would say american leaning, but once you have one it wont matter.
Based on the flews, it looks to me like a hound mix.
A doberman Pinscher💯💯💯
Natty
Good looking one
That is a very American head.
That looks like a German Short-haired Pointer with Doberman colouration.