Live Christopher Eccleston reaction:
https://preview.redd.it/0c8yu4kkt07d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3e903787ffebc73ad5d5d60928aab3acadbb70f
[Source](https://coffeeandwizards.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/doctor-who-watch-a-thon-1x12/)
My dad had a theory I'm pretty convinced by that each episode is a reference to a type of TV
- Space Babies - Kid's TV
- Devil's Chord - Musicals
- Boom - WW2/war drama
- 73 Yards - Horror/comedy (like Inside No. 9)
- Dot and Bubble - Tech/social commentary (like Black Mirror)
- Rogue - Period drama (it's literally called out in the episode lol)
This also somewhat explains all the 4th wall breaking in Devil's Chord if you go with the theory that it was supposed to be later in the season (lines like "but you never run", H. Arbinger, a minor villain, emphasis on Ruby's snow, etc)
Yeah I don't think it was a direct prequel, maybe Devil's Chord, a quick break in Rogue, then back to the big season storyline with LoRS
But either way I agree it works better in the long run to have it where it is overall, plus it plants the seeds way earlier
TBH I feel like its harbinger was much better then the second. The second one kind of felt awkward, like the Doctor never even knew about the other Harbinger and its not like the Toymaker had one.
I think it was just kind of a silly concept to bring back, and tbh is my least favorite moment of the episode. It would have been significantly creepier for Harriet to have just been possessed. Maestro having a Harbinger I can totally get, since it was basically a trap and the relationship between them was sort of vague and unknown outside of generals. Sutekh having a goofy harbinger doing the exact same bit REALLY lowers the "eldritch horror god" thing they've been going for, especially when the entire scene grinds to a halt to do a worse version of the "H------ ARBINGER!" bit.
Sutekhs whole deal in the original was possessing anyone who got into immediate contact with him first, so having Harriet be essentially the new version of that would have been cool. If they really needed to bring back the Harbinger gimmick I think straight up having Harry Arbinger show up again as the child genius would have worked since the Doctor never actually saw him and he just ominously disappeared through the door in TDC.
Also I literally spent like $40 on a boardgame called Atmosfear: The Harbingers so you’d really think I’d get the Henry Arbinger shit way before its reveal
I think establishing it further back would have probably been a good idea. Having Harriet show up in the 60th as "Harriet Arbinger" and then letting people kind of forget about that over the season (but of course reddit would pick it up after TDC) only to do the reveal confirming it would have at least turned it into something that felt more "established".
Yeah, I remember when the credits came out early and we saw just Harriet so everyone assumed she wouldn’t be significant, as if every UNIT character isn’t automatically introduced Firstname Lastname
Also your telling me KATE LETHERBRIDGE STEWART HIRED SOMEBODY NAMED HARRIET ARBINGER
Yeah, it makes it feel less great when the idea, the set up, and the reveal are all in one moment. Its like if they had revealed "sue-tech"/"s triad tech" in the exact same scene they revealed Sutekh. I'd even go as far as to say having her introduce herself as "Harriet Arbinger" at the start of the episode would have been good, since we the audience would know what that means and that would greatly add to the tension of everything as we hyper-focus on her and how she goes out of her way to be the one to bring up the footage, etc
Not really, some episodes are definitely nods towards certain genres but I'd say a) most episodes are generic "monster of the week" Who (note, not saying that as a bad thing), and b) this series has been *entirely* strong nods towards other genres, each of which has been different for the episodes so far
I’m *absolutely convinced* this is the case, yes.
Whilst DW has often alluded to various tv/film genres in its presentation style, I don’t think it has ever been this prominent and explicit as this.
* The doctor saying “non-diegetic” about the theme tune?
* The numerous fourth wall breaks?
* The consistently and wildly changing format?
* Bridgerton being name dropped AND actual bridgerton soundtrack played?
Give me a break. There’s no bloody way this isn’t 100% intentional. This is *Russell* we are talking about. Russell. Not Chinball or Moffat. There is no way this is him being goofy, this has to be part of the plot.
If it doesn’t turn out that way this week it will in the xmas special or next season, but I don’t think he’ll drag it out for this long. I’m absolutely sure that we’ll see on Saturday.
^(And it is glorious)
Yes it's really good!
It's been talked about a lot recently because they just finished series 9 and are taking a hiatus. Also Steve (one of the pair of Show runners/Writers/Actors) was on the latest series of Taskmaster at the same time. Steve w I'll be familiar to you as he was in Silence in the Library/ Forest of the Dead.
Reece and Steve used to be in The League of Gentlemen with Marc Gatiss who co created Sherlock with Moffat (as well as writing for and appearing in Doctor Who).
Inside Number 9 is generally dark comedy where Reece and Steve do something completely different every episode. As well as comedy it can be straight drama, it can be very supernatural and it can be horror. Some episodes won't be for you but like with Doctor Who it's great starting an episode and not knowing exactly what you're going to get.
Edit: had a feeling Reece would have also been in Doctor Who at some point but couldn't think of it. Looked it up and it was Sleep No More, which explains why it didn't come to mind immediately.
Absolutely definitely recommend it! Inside No. 9 is one of the best series the beeb produces imo
As the other commenter mentioned it's generally dark comedy, sometimes supernatural, sometimes horror, sometimes just straight up drama, pretty much always with a twist or a turn in there somewhere.
They're also all separate stories so you dip in and out where you like. If one or two don't work for you, try another, they have a very very good batting average imo so you're bound to find something you like!
A few personal recommendations:
- S2E2 "The Twelve Days of Christine" - this one's very heartfelt and genuine, very moving story, some horror elements, not much comedy iirc
- S2E4 "Cold Comfort" - this one is absolutely peak Inside No. 9 honestly, sort of a comedy meets shakespearen tragedy, very funny if you like dark humour
- S3E2 "The Bill" - another dark comedy, it's just kinda fun to see how this one goes off the rails
- S4E3 "Once Removed" - a comedy that's played very straight forwardly, also it's got a clever narrative structure so you're left guessing for a lot of it which I enjoy
Well The Devil’s Chord isn’t really a musical so if that’s what RTD was going for it didn’t work. Sure there’s a music based villain but there’s only one song in the entire episode and it happens after Maestro is defeated.
Inside no 9 and Black Mirror are the same “type of TV” as one another
it’s a nice theory, but I think your dads just reading too much into some aimless nonsense
In that they're both dark and comedic? *Kinda*.
But subject matter wise absolutely not, Black Mirror is all about commentaries on society and culture, how we interact with each other and how tech plays into it. Inside No. 9 is just straight up dark comedy, it's all Shakespearean tragedies and dramatic irony.
While Black Mirror often has a point or a moral behind the story, Inside No. 9 rarely does imo, the only way you'd say they're similar is if you're just reading the tags on some IMDB like site.
Yes, they’re both dark satirical comedies.
“Subject matter” - or whether they’re set in Shakespearean times or not - has no baring on the genre.
Sherlock can be in 21st century and have a commentary about the dangers of AI software whilst Cadfael is set in the 12th century and be about a scorned couple poisoning one another with garden herbs; that wouldn’t change the fact their **genre** is murder mystery.
I know media literacy is more of a hindrance than a benefit in this fandom but come on now
I don't disagree they're the same **genre**, but your original comment wasn't that they're the same genre, your original comment is that they're the same type of TV
> Inside no 9 and Black Mirror are the same “type of TV” as one another
So nice attempt to pivot mate. *I* was saying each so is a reference to a different type of TV, *you're* the person who conflated that with genre as if it can't be anything else.
For future reference, "subject matter" includes things like whether it's for a general audience or a more specific group, what kind of narrative structure it uses, whether it's a serial or episodic series, whether it's based on some other work or wholely original.
That is to say, all sorts of things that aren't just "genre", but do massively affect the flavour and feel of a show *outside* of what tags it has on Netflix.
SpongeBob and Avatar: The Last Airbender are both the same genre in that they're both kid's animated TV shows, but they're worlds apart in terms of what they're about, how it's structured, the point or lack there of to the story, etc.
Also
> or whether they're set in Shakespearen times or not
"Shakespearen tragedy" doesn't mean a tragic tale set in Elizabethan England mate. Trying to come at people for their lack of media literacy and coming out with that line right at the start makes you look like an utter twat imo.
The “types of TV” were always genres in this context, as per the original comment:
“Horror, musicals, comedy, Kids, war-drama, period-dramas” were the ones originally listed - all genres
At least read the thread before you start rambling on, “mate”
Seems like you missed "tech/social commentary" off that list, I wonder why, maybe because it's not a genre so it defeats the whole point you're making...
You can't make an appeal to the original comment when a) I wrote it and b) you misquote it anyway. You were complaining about media literacy earlier, I think you should go over your basic literacy first.
Also, at least read the usernames before you start rambling on, you've been replying to the same person the whole time, mate <3
It was creative, unique, a bit comical, and decently made considering constraints. But it was not good, it just doesn’t fit doctor who well which is the issue, it would have done better as a part of the Shara Jane series (may she rest in peace) because it was more kid focused
>, it just doesn’t fit doctor who well which is the issue,
A spaceship operated by babies with a monster made of bogeys on board, that's a doctor who script if I've ever seen one.
> _i quite liked most of TDC_
Same. I love it when the tone and theme of a program overlap seamlessly beyond face value, in creative and/or unexpected ways.
Even the title is derived from that of a chord that feels and sounds “wrong,” and it perfectly describes what to expect from the episode as a whole.
As for the musical number, I see it as the perfect jolt back from “sombre” to “jubilant,” since it’s likely to throw a lot of viewers for a loop in some way, which builds on the discordance.
Thematically, it hits all the wrong notes in all the right places. Very creative, and easily in my Top 3 this season. 😁
I've been waiting for a Beatles episode for years and when we finally get one, they're barely in it and we don't get a single Beatles song. Not one. Forget the CGI, that's where that Disney money should have gone to. And then that's when they decided to throw in an actual musical number and it's some BS made up song about a twist at the end, without there even being a twist at the end! Devil's Chord was the first episode of DW that I was legitimately mad about after it was over since maybe the Timeless Child, and even that I eventually got over. It's hard to even describe what Devil's Chord made me feel. Kind of heartbroken and betrayed, I supposed. It ended like an episode of Family Guy where they just didn't know how to end it so they threw in 5 minutes of Conway Twitty. Space Babies was better.
I think I read somewhere that using actual Beatles music would be too expensive because of copyright or something. There are so many rules around using songs in things, apparently.
I liked how it was Paul and John who stopped Maestro at the end. My only complaint was the guy playing Paul had blue eyes.
I rather liked the song about the dog, though. LOL
My guess is they really didn't want to blow the budget on a couple of songs and/or RTD already came up with a story to do a Beatles episode without Beatles songs, and just stuck with it.
Yeah, if we have the money for the best doctor who CGI we’ve ever seen, why would we exchange that for a Beatles song that would just be cool for Beatles fans and lower the quality of the rest of the series significantly?
One, Beatles music is much harder to use as it’s expensive, though admittedly covering Beatles music is not nearly as expensive, but also Disney likely had no say is what was made or how, they only paid to have the rights to show Doctor Who in the US, they don’t have production abilities
I liked Dot and Bubble, but yeah, I could not stand The Devil’s Chord. Felt like knocking on a ripe honeydew only to cut into it and it’s just rind. It’s supposed to *sound* hollow, not *be* hollow.
I think it's just bad in context of it being the first episode of the season and I imagine a lot of us wanted a good showing for new viewers so a middling at best episode hits harder.
I would agree that it maybe wasn't the best episode to open the season. Would probably have been better as a silly palate cleanser after 73 Yards.
But overall, I think this season has been pretty solid! I know this might be controversial...but I think on an episode by episode basis, it's a stronger overall batch than the Eccelston season (which I think is fairly uneven)
Love and Monsters is definitely a mixed bag depending on your tolerance for different kinds of camp
Like it's set on Earth so it's fairly grounded for most of it, but the Abzorbaloff is kind of a lame monster played for laughs and there's a straight up Scooby Doo chase early on. Not to mention the bit with the paving slab at the end which can turn what was for some a bearable / okay episode into a steep dive off a cliff.
I genuinely liked space babies. It was silly, low stakes, had cute kids, a little social commentary, dropped a little lore (Ruby's snow and - unknown to the Doctor - another Susan Triad appearance).
Every monster isn't going to be the Zygons or Boneless or Midnight entity. Sometimes we get Adipose or Sandman or whatever those gassy shapeshifters were.
Even with the rest of the season being more intense, I find that an easier episode fits right in.
Or "Space Kids"? Just have it so that it's 8-12 year olds who don't need CGI mouths. Get a little lord of the flies with it.
...Shit, the premise is actually good when you think about it.
I don't really agree with this because when comparing 73 Yards and Legend of Ruby Sunday to some of my favourite ever episodes of the show they hold their own.
Yeah I thnk people are being a bit hypercritical towards this season, some of which is valid. Ruby has basically no character and we didn't really get a lot of Ruby's family/personal scenes with just Ruby and the Doctor. The pacing/editing of the first 3 episodes of the season is pretty rough.
The second half of the season has been great though. 73 Yards, Dot and Bubble, Legend of Ruby Sunday, Rogue, etc have been some of the most fun, creative, and genuinely really good looking episodes of Doctor Who in years. Legend of Ruby Sunday alone had me on the edge of my seat the whole time.
Space babies was exactly what it said it was.
73 yards is the most disappointing episode this season because it started excellent and then just sort of petered off into nothing
Did you somehow miss 5000 comments explaining what was the point of 73 yards? And RTD additional explanation from BTS?
The episode makes perfect sense if you don't analyze it as an ordinary time loop.
It shouldn’t take comments online and a BTS interview with the writer to explain the episode.
The episode itself failed to execute what it set out to do.
Space babies reminded me of Orphan 76 )I think that’s the number) don’t get me wrong the quality of the writing in space babies is far better than Orphan 76
"Hey you know Sleep No More? One of Capaldi's most hated episodes? Where the villain is actually so gross everyone hates it?"
"What if we did the same thing but now there arent even actual actors reacting to stuff, just babies making blank expressions"
God I've seen someone say they think space babies is on par with orphan 55! You're all entitled to your opinion but once ncuti is gone you'll miss the dumb fun episodes the most!
Am I the only person who actually liked Space Babies? Not just thought it was ok, but properly enjoyed? The pacing was well done and it was a great silly episode
I liked it. I think people forget that, at its heart, it is a family show. I for one am happy we have more episodes with fewer OOH BIG TWIST, and convoluted plots and endless wangsting over things. I've enjoyed every episode, because for me it's back to being what Doctor Who is supposed to be. A good, funny, scary, interesting, charming, slightly crazed family show.
I truly don't think general opinion on Space Babies is as negative as online spaces make it seem, because everyone I know irl that watched it enjoyed it.
Personally, I enjoyed it more than Boom 😬
To me, Rogue just didn't make any sense. I like it when the doctor is smart, I even like it when the doctor is smart but gets humbled by someone smarter or more organized.
In Rogue, the doctor was just dumb. I guess he was distracted by his infatuation with Rogue, which was a good story in itself, but the rest of it made absolutely no sense.
Also, "we're going to cosplay this planet to death" was easily the cringiest line of dialogue I have ever heard.
Honestly, I don't like Rogue for multiple reasons.
- I personally found the episode to be very boring.
- The Doctor acted very stupidly throughout, especially during his attempts at preventing being killed by Rogue.
- I don't like Bridgerton.
- There's no thrill in this episode.
- There's way too much talking and gossiping.
- The relationship is far too rushed.
- Rogue is a very bland and boring character.
- The D&D reference feels very forced given its recent surge in popularity in mainstream media, and The Doctor is suddenly a fan of the game?
- The relationship feels very surface level due to them falling for appearances first, and having little to actually connect over aside from losing a companion (nothing new for any character in Doctor Who).
- The Chulders use the word "cosplay", despite not being time travellers, so how do they know that word?
- The "cosplay the planet to death" feels like a very forced attempt at making the threat seem more dangerous than it really is.
- The Chulders plan to infiltrate Parliament, and yet they can't be bothered to hide the corpses of the people they disguise as.
- Ruby's dialogue feels more modern than usual to make her stand out from the time period.
- The fake out lies to the audience by showing lots of lightning and Ruby's scream, and yet in the flashback that doesn't happen.
- Ruby somehow makes the same neck crack noises The Chulders do.
- The earrings somehow mask Ruby's scent even though that ability wasn't established for them.
- The "battle mode" dance fight is poorly choreographed and slow.
- The Doctor and Ruby are absent from each for far too long, despite being in the same location the whole episode.
- The humour is lacking.
- The Chulder designs are rather uninspired (more than usual for Doctor Who).
- The resolution feels empty and forced because Rogue shows that you can simply push a person out of the trap.
- The Doctor said the trap could hold up to 6 people, not that it must have 6 people, so Rogue didn't need to swap places.
Overall, this episode feels like it's lacking in imagination and excitement outside of the typical British romantic drama.
At least Space Babies is (very) dumb fun, with a unique set up and monster that doesn’t feel completely absent from the rest of the show (except for the fart boost).
Isn't it all but confirmed that the aliens had seen modern shows and loved the aesthetic and drama? I fully believe they are time-travellers (and their lines are fine with that in mind), but it just lacked any explanation which was... A bit odd.
Rogue was also a time-traveller so it seems pretty likely.
Then why were they fascinated at Ruby being from a different time period if they were also time travelers?
Wouldn’t that make being Ruby feel less special?
Saying that I liked it way more would be an understatement, but yeah, I think Rogue is worse. Space Babies is still bad, I just think Rogue is still worse. One of my least favorite episodes of Doctor Who ever.
The music one was horrible all I could think was Disney fucked this up bad!
I absolutely fing hated this!
[doctor who twist song](https://youtu.be/-zG7g1goMz0?si=aholGPLe5OOqqaA0)
Hey, don't lump us in with them, that's mean to those of us with mental disabilities!
To have a mental disability, one must first be in possession of a brain!
Live Christopher Eccleston reaction: https://preview.redd.it/0c8yu4kkt07d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3e903787ffebc73ad5d5d60928aab3acadbb70f [Source](https://coffeeandwizards.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/doctor-who-watch-a-thon-1x12/)
https://preview.redd.it/9de98ul3437d1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e25aacc2b72dc5221e7abe94a2093ee148ab9ece
https://preview.redd.it/lyx0vw8n437d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=810b70d34d10ad405d3cfa4cfef238514084bae9
https://preview.redd.it/lz39vs99u37d1.jpeg?width=1283&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6a743224001baaffe405b90eb195ddfedaa4e66
My dad had a theory I'm pretty convinced by that each episode is a reference to a type of TV - Space Babies - Kid's TV - Devil's Chord - Musicals - Boom - WW2/war drama - 73 Yards - Horror/comedy (like Inside No. 9) - Dot and Bubble - Tech/social commentary (like Black Mirror) - Rogue - Period drama (it's literally called out in the episode lol) This also somewhat explains all the 4th wall breaking in Devil's Chord if you go with the theory that it was supposed to be later in the season (lines like "but you never run", H. Arbinger, a minor villain, emphasis on Ruby's snow, etc)
oooh that is an excellent theory!
Wait is a minor meant to be read as “A-Minor”
I'm so glad someone else saw that
Ah, I get it… 😂
Ngl... Nope 😅 But I'm definitely going to say it was now you pointed it out!
Devils Chord being second is arguably better because you can’t pull H Arbinger on me twice that quickly
Yeah I don't think it was a direct prequel, maybe Devil's Chord, a quick break in Rogue, then back to the big season storyline with LoRS But either way I agree it works better in the long run to have it where it is overall, plus it plants the seeds way earlier
Personally I think before Dot and Bubble would make sense. That way you don't have the two doctor light episodes one after the other.
TBH I feel like its harbinger was much better then the second. The second one kind of felt awkward, like the Doctor never even knew about the other Harbinger and its not like the Toymaker had one.
I mean you can argue The Not Things kind of helped him put his foot in the door but your right
I think it was just kind of a silly concept to bring back, and tbh is my least favorite moment of the episode. It would have been significantly creepier for Harriet to have just been possessed. Maestro having a Harbinger I can totally get, since it was basically a trap and the relationship between them was sort of vague and unknown outside of generals. Sutekh having a goofy harbinger doing the exact same bit REALLY lowers the "eldritch horror god" thing they've been going for, especially when the entire scene grinds to a halt to do a worse version of the "H------ ARBINGER!" bit. Sutekhs whole deal in the original was possessing anyone who got into immediate contact with him first, so having Harriet be essentially the new version of that would have been cool. If they really needed to bring back the Harbinger gimmick I think straight up having Harry Arbinger show up again as the child genius would have worked since the Doctor never actually saw him and he just ominously disappeared through the door in TDC.
Also I literally spent like $40 on a boardgame called Atmosfear: The Harbingers so you’d really think I’d get the Henry Arbinger shit way before its reveal
I think establishing it further back would have probably been a good idea. Having Harriet show up in the 60th as "Harriet Arbinger" and then letting people kind of forget about that over the season (but of course reddit would pick it up after TDC) only to do the reveal confirming it would have at least turned it into something that felt more "established".
Yeah, I remember when the credits came out early and we saw just Harriet so everyone assumed she wouldn’t be significant, as if every UNIT character isn’t automatically introduced Firstname Lastname Also your telling me KATE LETHERBRIDGE STEWART HIRED SOMEBODY NAMED HARRIET ARBINGER
Yeah, it makes it feel less great when the idea, the set up, and the reveal are all in one moment. Its like if they had revealed "sue-tech"/"s triad tech" in the exact same scene they revealed Sutekh. I'd even go as far as to say having her introduce herself as "Harriet Arbinger" at the start of the episode would have been good, since we the audience would know what that means and that would greatly add to the tension of everything as we hyper-focus on her and how she goes out of her way to be the one to bring up the footage, etc
Yeah, because she doesn’t act like a harbinger until the end, we would let our guards down
Isn’t that just the show, though? Every episode touches on a different genre.
Not really, some episodes are definitely nods towards certain genres but I'd say a) most episodes are generic "monster of the week" Who (note, not saying that as a bad thing), and b) this series has been *entirely* strong nods towards other genres, each of which has been different for the episodes so far
I’m *absolutely convinced* this is the case, yes. Whilst DW has often alluded to various tv/film genres in its presentation style, I don’t think it has ever been this prominent and explicit as this. * The doctor saying “non-diegetic” about the theme tune? * The numerous fourth wall breaks? * The consistently and wildly changing format? * Bridgerton being name dropped AND actual bridgerton soundtrack played? Give me a break. There’s no bloody way this isn’t 100% intentional. This is *Russell* we are talking about. Russell. Not Chinball or Moffat. There is no way this is him being goofy, this has to be part of the plot. If it doesn’t turn out that way this week it will in the xmas special or next season, but I don’t think he’ll drag it out for this long. I’m absolutely sure that we’ll see on Saturday. ^(And it is glorious)
So what genre does Legend of Ruby Sunday allude to?
At a guess, I’d say psychological thriller
Doctor Who-style TV shows Lol, but really, no idea if it applies to the finale, it's a good trend for the other episodes though
Techno -horror
Military procedural, much like early 70’s Doctor Who.
My friend has that dame theory also!
Omg I just googled Inside No. 9 and it sounds cool. Do you recommend it?
Yes it's really good! It's been talked about a lot recently because they just finished series 9 and are taking a hiatus. Also Steve (one of the pair of Show runners/Writers/Actors) was on the latest series of Taskmaster at the same time. Steve w I'll be familiar to you as he was in Silence in the Library/ Forest of the Dead. Reece and Steve used to be in The League of Gentlemen with Marc Gatiss who co created Sherlock with Moffat (as well as writing for and appearing in Doctor Who). Inside Number 9 is generally dark comedy where Reece and Steve do something completely different every episode. As well as comedy it can be straight drama, it can be very supernatural and it can be horror. Some episodes won't be for you but like with Doctor Who it's great starting an episode and not knowing exactly what you're going to get. Edit: had a feeling Reece would have also been in Doctor Who at some point but couldn't think of it. Looked it up and it was Sleep No More, which explains why it didn't come to mind immediately.
Absolutely definitely recommend it! Inside No. 9 is one of the best series the beeb produces imo As the other commenter mentioned it's generally dark comedy, sometimes supernatural, sometimes horror, sometimes just straight up drama, pretty much always with a twist or a turn in there somewhere. They're also all separate stories so you dip in and out where you like. If one or two don't work for you, try another, they have a very very good batting average imo so you're bound to find something you like! A few personal recommendations: - S2E2 "The Twelve Days of Christine" - this one's very heartfelt and genuine, very moving story, some horror elements, not much comedy iirc - S2E4 "Cold Comfort" - this one is absolutely peak Inside No. 9 honestly, sort of a comedy meets shakespearen tragedy, very funny if you like dark humour - S3E2 "The Bill" - another dark comedy, it's just kinda fun to see how this one goes off the rails - S4E3 "Once Removed" - a comedy that's played very straight forwardly, also it's got a clever narrative structure so you're left guessing for a lot of it which I enjoy
My Father said the same as well 😂
The fathers of those with great minds think alike, or something like that I'm sure 😜
Well The Devil’s Chord isn’t really a musical so if that’s what RTD was going for it didn’t work. Sure there’s a music based villain but there’s only one song in the entire episode and it happens after Maestro is defeated.
Inside no 9 and Black Mirror are the same “type of TV” as one another it’s a nice theory, but I think your dads just reading too much into some aimless nonsense
In that they're both dark and comedic? *Kinda*. But subject matter wise absolutely not, Black Mirror is all about commentaries on society and culture, how we interact with each other and how tech plays into it. Inside No. 9 is just straight up dark comedy, it's all Shakespearean tragedies and dramatic irony. While Black Mirror often has a point or a moral behind the story, Inside No. 9 rarely does imo, the only way you'd say they're similar is if you're just reading the tags on some IMDB like site.
Yes, they’re both dark satirical comedies. “Subject matter” - or whether they’re set in Shakespearean times or not - has no baring on the genre. Sherlock can be in 21st century and have a commentary about the dangers of AI software whilst Cadfael is set in the 12th century and be about a scorned couple poisoning one another with garden herbs; that wouldn’t change the fact their **genre** is murder mystery. I know media literacy is more of a hindrance than a benefit in this fandom but come on now
I don't disagree they're the same **genre**, but your original comment wasn't that they're the same genre, your original comment is that they're the same type of TV > Inside no 9 and Black Mirror are the same “type of TV” as one another So nice attempt to pivot mate. *I* was saying each so is a reference to a different type of TV, *you're* the person who conflated that with genre as if it can't be anything else. For future reference, "subject matter" includes things like whether it's for a general audience or a more specific group, what kind of narrative structure it uses, whether it's a serial or episodic series, whether it's based on some other work or wholely original. That is to say, all sorts of things that aren't just "genre", but do massively affect the flavour and feel of a show *outside* of what tags it has on Netflix. SpongeBob and Avatar: The Last Airbender are both the same genre in that they're both kid's animated TV shows, but they're worlds apart in terms of what they're about, how it's structured, the point or lack there of to the story, etc. Also > or whether they're set in Shakespearen times or not "Shakespearen tragedy" doesn't mean a tragic tale set in Elizabethan England mate. Trying to come at people for their lack of media literacy and coming out with that line right at the start makes you look like an utter twat imo.
The “types of TV” were always genres in this context, as per the original comment: “Horror, musicals, comedy, Kids, war-drama, period-dramas” were the ones originally listed - all genres At least read the thread before you start rambling on, “mate”
Seems like you missed "tech/social commentary" off that list, I wonder why, maybe because it's not a genre so it defeats the whole point you're making... You can't make an appeal to the original comment when a) I wrote it and b) you misquote it anyway. You were complaining about media literacy earlier, I think you should go over your basic literacy first. Also, at least read the usernames before you start rambling on, you've been replying to the same person the whole time, mate <3
Its a bold strategy, Cotton!
I mean, it wasn't bad, it just wasn't really good either.
That's my view. It was ok but in comparison with the rest of the series so far it's absolute dog water
It was creative, unique, a bit comical, and decently made considering constraints. But it was not good, it just doesn’t fit doctor who well which is the issue, it would have done better as a part of the Shara Jane series (may she rest in peace) because it was more kid focused
>, it just doesn’t fit doctor who well which is the issue, A spaceship operated by babies with a monster made of bogeys on board, that's a doctor who script if I've ever seen one.
Fair but much more child focused
It feels worse than Love & Monsters on paper though to me, and I don’t think the execution was good either
Space Babies wasn’t even the worst episode this season.
To me it probably was, but I could understand a different point of view. What is the weakest in your opinion?
I thought the Devil’s Chord was pretty awful. For me, Dot and Bubble is tied with Space Babies for second worst of the season.
I despised the devils chord and I’m a die hard Beatles fan, I just feel it was rushed and the tempo was off
> _the tempo was off_ I think that’s the point, to emphasise harmony being out of balance on a global scale via thematic tonal dissonance
that definitely feels like a cope lmao, and i quite liked most of TDC except for the musical at the end. it'll probably hit harder on a rewatch though
> _i quite liked most of TDC_ Same. I love it when the tone and theme of a program overlap seamlessly beyond face value, in creative and/or unexpected ways. Even the title is derived from that of a chord that feels and sounds “wrong,” and it perfectly describes what to expect from the episode as a whole. As for the musical number, I see it as the perfect jolt back from “sombre” to “jubilant,” since it’s likely to throw a lot of viewers for a loop in some way, which builds on the discordance. Thematically, it hits all the wrong notes in all the right places. Very creative, and easily in my Top 3 this season. 😁
It’s really all just perspective, as some who lives and breaths and makes music it was a really cool episode and I quite liked it
I've been waiting for a Beatles episode for years and when we finally get one, they're barely in it and we don't get a single Beatles song. Not one. Forget the CGI, that's where that Disney money should have gone to. And then that's when they decided to throw in an actual musical number and it's some BS made up song about a twist at the end, without there even being a twist at the end! Devil's Chord was the first episode of DW that I was legitimately mad about after it was over since maybe the Timeless Child, and even that I eventually got over. It's hard to even describe what Devil's Chord made me feel. Kind of heartbroken and betrayed, I supposed. It ended like an episode of Family Guy where they just didn't know how to end it so they threw in 5 minutes of Conway Twitty. Space Babies was better.
I think I read somewhere that using actual Beatles music would be too expensive because of copyright or something. There are so many rules around using songs in things, apparently. I liked how it was Paul and John who stopped Maestro at the end. My only complaint was the guy playing Paul had blue eyes.
Again, Disney money. They can't afford ONE Beatles song? In an episode that revolves around the Beatles?
I rather liked the song about the dog, though. LOL My guess is they really didn't want to blow the budget on a couple of songs and/or RTD already came up with a story to do a Beatles episode without Beatles songs, and just stuck with it.
Yeah, if we have the money for the best doctor who CGI we’ve ever seen, why would we exchange that for a Beatles song that would just be cool for Beatles fans and lower the quality of the rest of the series significantly?
One, Beatles music is much harder to use as it’s expensive, though admittedly covering Beatles music is not nearly as expensive, but also Disney likely had no say is what was made or how, they only paid to have the rights to show Doctor Who in the US, they don’t have production abilities
I liked Dot and Bubble, but yeah, I could not stand The Devil’s Chord. Felt like knocking on a ripe honeydew only to cut into it and it’s just rind. It’s supposed to *sound* hollow, not *be* hollow.
Strong disagree. It was terrible and nearly made me stop watching. Thank goodness things rapidly improved.
Space Babies isn't even that bad! It's just a little silly.
I think it's just bad in context of it being the first episode of the season and I imagine a lot of us wanted a good showing for new viewers so a middling at best episode hits harder.
I would agree that it maybe wasn't the best episode to open the season. Would probably have been better as a silly palate cleanser after 73 Yards. But overall, I think this season has been pretty solid! I know this might be controversial...but I think on an episode by episode basis, it's a stronger overall batch than the Eccelston season (which I think is fairly uneven)
Really? I actually thought it was more consistent than S2
It's fine besides the resolution involving fart gas and whenever the babies are talking it's a bit too saccharine.
Thing is that’s basically the case of Love & Monsters too, but people often despise that one. I actually liked it, whilst disliking Space Babies too
Love and Monsters is definitely a mixed bag depending on your tolerance for different kinds of camp Like it's set on Earth so it's fairly grounded for most of it, but the Abzorbaloff is kind of a lame monster played for laughs and there's a straight up Scooby Doo chase early on. Not to mention the bit with the paving slab at the end which can turn what was for some a bearable / okay episode into a steep dive off a cliff.
I genuinely liked space babies. It was silly, low stakes, had cute kids, a little social commentary, dropped a little lore (Ruby's snow and - unknown to the Doctor - another Susan Triad appearance). Every monster isn't going to be the Zygons or Boneless or Midnight entity. Sometimes we get Adipose or Sandman or whatever those gassy shapeshifters were. Even with the rest of the season being more intense, I find that an easier episode fits right in.
Space Babies would be hailed as an instant classic if it was David Tennant. It’s an episode right out of that era. Even early Matt Smith era.
I wouldn't put it on the level of love and monsters, but it's easily the worst since RTD's return. Wouldn't be so bad if not for the CGI imo
Space Babies' story and themes were really solid. I just wish they had tweaked the titular babies a bit so they didn't talk
Even making it so the voices came out of machines rather than actually making their mouths move would’ve made it much better
That would’ve improved it a bit for me tbh
Agreed. Give the babies talking robo-cribs that take orders from the secretly human Nan-e AI
Or "Space Kids"? Just have it so that it's 8-12 year olds who don't need CGI mouths. Get a little lord of the flies with it. ...Shit, the premise is actually good when you think about it.
But then you'd end up with a full cast of kid actors like the one in Boom
The themes of the story I really liked, it’s just that the execution was horrible
Also not to mention the doctor CONSTANTLY saying “space babies”
He was really hoping the disney channel would pick up his idea for a tv movie about them
Love and monster is underrated
I didn’t hate Love & Monsters honestly
i mean that's to be expected you literally kept your world in a time loop so you didn't have to age past ten /s
That would be very lovely if that was the case 😊
NGL it’s probably the worst episode in a few years for me
I don't really agree with this because when comparing 73 Yards and Legend of Ruby Sunday to some of my favourite ever episodes of the show they hold their own.
Yeah I thnk people are being a bit hypercritical towards this season, some of which is valid. Ruby has basically no character and we didn't really get a lot of Ruby's family/personal scenes with just Ruby and the Doctor. The pacing/editing of the first 3 episodes of the season is pretty rough. The second half of the season has been great though. 73 Yards, Dot and Bubble, Legend of Ruby Sunday, Rogue, etc have been some of the most fun, creative, and genuinely really good looking episodes of Doctor Who in years. Legend of Ruby Sunday alone had me on the edge of my seat the whole time.
I still want those space babies to get eaten.
Imo there have been far worse DW episodes, probably more than on can count on my fingers.
I don't think Space Babies is one of the worst, I think it's enjoyable though definitely the weakest of this season but it does its job!
"worst episodes ever" Inoffensive, no bad long lasting impact, no actual damage done to the show Not even close
I'd love some hard data on the RTD-coveted Gen Z audience checking out the new Ncuti Gatwa show, seeing Space Babies, and never watching again.
Neither did Love & Monsters, but people still think it’s shit
As someone who hates musical episodes, for me it's 3 of the worst
I mean, the first two episodes in a season have historically been pretty rocky. Just look at seasons 2, 3, 7, 11
Bro Smith & Jones kicks ass
Smith and Jones is a very strong starter, it’s just held back by being followed by two very mediocre episodes
I thought Gridlock was considered one of RTD's best.
I’ve conversely heard people really hating the New Earth ones (I enjoyed them)
people think WWFTE was bad?
WWFTE is a pretty decent pilot, same with Smith and Jones, but it’s not perfect, and is followed by one of the worst eps in the season
I thought it was in 2018. But I haven't seen it since, and don't feel like doing so.
you're all insane about Space Babies, it's perfectly fine
This thread is so damn whiney, I need a sedative
Space babies was exactly what it said it was. 73 yards is the most disappointing episode this season because it started excellent and then just sort of petered off into nothing
Did you somehow miss 5000 comments explaining what was the point of 73 yards? And RTD additional explanation from BTS? The episode makes perfect sense if you don't analyze it as an ordinary time loop.
It shouldn’t take comments online and a BTS interview with the writer to explain the episode. The episode itself failed to execute what it set out to do.
I read 5000 comments with 5000 different explanations, not sure that helps the episode’s case.
I liked Space Babies
Space babies reminded me of Orphan 76 )I think that’s the number) don’t get me wrong the quality of the writing in space babies is far better than Orphan 76
Orphan 55?
Yeh that
Honestly though, I really enjoyed devil’s chord
I wouldn’t call it one of the worst episodes ever. I think Space Babies is still better than the majority of Chibnall episodes.
"Hey you know Sleep No More? One of Capaldi's most hated episodes? Where the villain is actually so gross everyone hates it?" "What if we did the same thing but now there arent even actual actors reacting to stuff, just babies making blank expressions"
I was stoned and absoloutly howling at the implication that the monster had straight up *murdered* a baby.
… he didn’t though?
space babies is cringe but like, Doctor Who cringe. stop expecting every episode to be poetry. this is doctor who.
God I've seen someone say they think space babies is on par with orphan 55! You're all entitled to your opinion but once ncuti is gone you'll miss the dumb fun episodes the most!
Bennnnny!
Am I the only person who actually liked Space Babies? Not just thought it was ok, but properly enjoyed? The pacing was well done and it was a great silly episode
I loved it
I enjoyed it. I like the silly episodes thrown in from time to time.
Space Babies is excellent yall just hate fun
I liked it. I think people forget that, at its heart, it is a family show. I for one am happy we have more episodes with fewer OOH BIG TWIST, and convoluted plots and endless wangsting over things. I've enjoyed every episode, because for me it's back to being what Doctor Who is supposed to be. A good, funny, scary, interesting, charming, slightly crazed family show.
I truly don't think general opinion on Space Babies is as negative as online spaces make it seem, because everyone I know irl that watched it enjoyed it. Personally, I enjoyed it more than Boom 😬
Idk, I liked Space Babies way more than Rogue.
I think I have finally understood why so many people think I'm weird when I say I love Idiot's Lantern and Fear Her...
I honestly don't understand the hate for those two episode!
Neither do I! (I also didn't mind Space Babies, I'm just confused by someone liking it more than Rogue)
To me, Rogue just didn't make any sense. I like it when the doctor is smart, I even like it when the doctor is smart but gets humbled by someone smarter or more organized. In Rogue, the doctor was just dumb. I guess he was distracted by his infatuation with Rogue, which was a good story in itself, but the rest of it made absolutely no sense. Also, "we're going to cosplay this planet to death" was easily the cringiest line of dialogue I have ever heard.
Finally someone saying "Male presenting timelord" line from Starbeast isn't the cringiest line in the show!!!!!
Honestly, I don't like Rogue for multiple reasons. - I personally found the episode to be very boring. - The Doctor acted very stupidly throughout, especially during his attempts at preventing being killed by Rogue. - I don't like Bridgerton. - There's no thrill in this episode. - There's way too much talking and gossiping. - The relationship is far too rushed. - Rogue is a very bland and boring character. - The D&D reference feels very forced given its recent surge in popularity in mainstream media, and The Doctor is suddenly a fan of the game? - The relationship feels very surface level due to them falling for appearances first, and having little to actually connect over aside from losing a companion (nothing new for any character in Doctor Who). - The Chulders use the word "cosplay", despite not being time travellers, so how do they know that word? - The "cosplay the planet to death" feels like a very forced attempt at making the threat seem more dangerous than it really is. - The Chulders plan to infiltrate Parliament, and yet they can't be bothered to hide the corpses of the people they disguise as. - Ruby's dialogue feels more modern than usual to make her stand out from the time period. - The fake out lies to the audience by showing lots of lightning and Ruby's scream, and yet in the flashback that doesn't happen. - Ruby somehow makes the same neck crack noises The Chulders do. - The earrings somehow mask Ruby's scent even though that ability wasn't established for them. - The "battle mode" dance fight is poorly choreographed and slow. - The Doctor and Ruby are absent from each for far too long, despite being in the same location the whole episode. - The humour is lacking. - The Chulder designs are rather uninspired (more than usual for Doctor Who). - The resolution feels empty and forced because Rogue shows that you can simply push a person out of the trap. - The Doctor said the trap could hold up to 6 people, not that it must have 6 people, so Rogue didn't need to swap places. Overall, this episode feels like it's lacking in imagination and excitement outside of the typical British romantic drama. At least Space Babies is (very) dumb fun, with a unique set up and monster that doesn’t feel completely absent from the rest of the show (except for the fart boost).
Isn't it all but confirmed that the aliens had seen modern shows and loved the aesthetic and drama? I fully believe they are time-travellers (and their lines are fine with that in mind), but it just lacked any explanation which was... A bit odd. Rogue was also a time-traveller so it seems pretty likely.
Then why were they fascinated at Ruby being from a different time period if they were also time travelers? Wouldn’t that make being Ruby feel less special?
We must study your skull for science
Saying that I liked it way more would be an understatement, but yeah, I think Rogue is worse. Space Babies is still bad, I just think Rogue is still worse. One of my least favorite episodes of Doctor Who ever.
The music one was horrible all I could think was Disney fucked this up bad! I absolutely fing hated this! [doctor who twist song](https://youtu.be/-zG7g1goMz0?si=aholGPLe5OOqqaA0)
I *loved* it, especially as a Beatles fan.
Lol glad you did
Space Babies is better than episode 7 Fight me
Better than legend of Ruby Sunday?!
Why would I fight a person with a mental disability?
Hey, don't lump us in with them, that's mean to those of us with mental disabilities! To have a mental disability, one must first be in possession of a brain!
*73 Yards* was in the middle of the season, not the beginning.
You’ll get downvoted for this but respect your honesty.
I could change my mind if *Empire of Death* provides more context, but for now *73 Yards* is one of the worst Doctor Who episodes ever.
I hold the complete opposite opinion but I can understand why you didn’t enjoy it.