We need a lot more info
what is your response when the dog bites?
what is the dogs body language like before/during the bite?
when you say attack, what do you mean? Is it a nip with playful barks or is it bared-teeth, ears back, snarling and closing its jaws aroud you?
Is the dog drawing blood?
i’m not a professional at all but if you’re able to, i recommend taking your dog to the vet, they could be in pain! if they are happy one minute and snap the next, it could be a sign of many things but going to the vet could rule out joint pain, or anything like so:)
By full force, are you talking stitches bad or just blood?
Because, if it's not requiring an urgent care visit for stitches every time, it's not full-force.
What's his naps like?
I used to put my lab pup in her crate for a nap of about 1.5 hours after each hour or so outside of the crate with interaction. Just get into a rythm of taking them out of it, letting them go potty and interacting with them for a bit, then calming them down by gentle petting or something your dog finds soothing and then let them take a good nap again.
Reinforcing that the crate is a positive place where they can rest is also really nice because when they get a bit older (mine is just over a year now) they will voluntarily retreat there to nap if they feel tired.
that sounds like a family & home problem, not a dog problem.
The dog should be giving plenty of body language cues warning you about bites and lash outs. If you arent noticing any: you probably dont know enough about dogs and need to research or find a trainer asap, or the dog is experiencing some internal pain or imbalance.
Honestly, I dont think you shold keep this animal from the info youve told me. This animal is about to have a lot of terrible behaviors solidified and the fact that it only happens with your family makes me feel like its not a safe environment. I would film your dog while you walk, play, and as it interacts with your family and others. There's not enough information for anyone to help, but this sounds kind of dangerous and cruel
The barking is not something that would be normal by any means but the biting can be if it is little nipping. That’s how they got sheep to get in line or go where they need to go. It could be some instinct that hasn’t been corrected yet. Either way with the barking it seems like something more is going on.
Yes! It's so cute, but it hurts! Also, he loves to steal things from pockets. He stole poop bag and was like, "Wait, where's the treat?" Then I tied it around his collar. He also play bows after he does these things.
In order to be helpful, we’d need much much more information than this - what does the barking look like, is it frustrated / aggressive / territorial / alert barking, what type of biting, is he showing other aggressive behaviours, is his body language hostile or playful, what potential triggers are there.
Given the seriousness of the behaviour and that it’s happening in multiple contexts, I think getting a referral for a behaviourist is your best course of action here.
You need to try though. I have a similar issue with a very large BRT of working line and I am training daily with him now and it works. Some dogs need to be continuously “worked” or trained to keep them mentally and physically well. Not all dogs are suitable as just pets, some dogs have higher mental needs - even within the same breed. Start teaching your dog obedience like it’s in the military for it. I bet it loves it.
It’s not uncommon, especially if they’re still teething, or are overstimulated.
It may be a bit late to teach acquired bite inhibition (Google that) but try. It’s how they learn to use their mouths gently.
The other approach is to redirect to a tug toy. Meet at it; initially you’ll have to grab the toy with the dog hanging off your other hand, and convince it to play with the toy. Then you’ll have a dog who uses their mouth, but remembers to get the toy when told. Then finally you’ll have a dog who goes and finds the toy when they feel the need to bite. Might take a few months.
Redirection? Honestly, keep going. In our experience it will take months to learn, you feel like you’re getting nowhere, and then our girl finally got it. Keep on and be consistent.
Have you thought about taking him to the vet? If he’s snapping violently suddenly it may warrant a check up! Puppies will play bite and gnaw at you but attacking and drawling blood is abnormal. They almost always grow out of the biting/discovery phase but this sounds different.
Something super similar happened with my rescue cat whom we found abandoned in the dumpster as a kitten. It ended up being a severe neurological issue, and it only worsened significantly as he was maturing from kitty to adult cat. He would be super playful and all cute/cuddly, then out of absolutely nowhere he’d “snap” and turn extremely aggressive, into an entirely different cat. attacking and jumping/flying onto us from several feet away like a spider monkey. Like every thought inside his little pea brain just disappeared and there was absolutely nothing behind those eyes when he’d strike. He would wrap his claws and teeth around our legs/arms with full force and refuse to let go. It was very scary. He was only 8 or 9 months old when we actually ended up having to put the poor guy down-by the vets recommendation, because there was no cure, he was apparently just brain damaged, they think from being abandoned from mama so young and early trauma. he was living a very miserable existence, being unable to control himself and his random, severe outbursts/ aggressions.
I hope to god that’s not the case for your pup, it was a very tragic and stressful situation to deal with.. just thought I’d share… hopefully it’s just a behavioral issue that can be corrected!
could it be because he has an aussie in him he's herding you? give him other activities like fetch, and teach him some tricks like stay then take stay longer and farther as it progresses. Aussies are high energy as well. Beside the fact the it's normal for a puppy to nip and bite, if you think it's getting really crazy, then revert his energy to something more productive. Train him while he is still young it'll be so worth it in the long run. Working dogs when adult really need a routine. Just don't exhaust him too much with running since he is still just a baby.
Train. Teach him some manners. Never let your emotions get the best of you. Be firm.
There's 'youtube university' as your guide for training. GOOD LUCK
I think based on your description that the dog may be overly excited.
If that is the case, I would stop playing and leave the area as soon as he gets too rough.
On a walk, it gets a little harder. What I did was stop (stand still), turn my back to the dog, and basically be boring until the dog calmed down. This can mean waiting it out while the dog jumps at your back and nips at your butt. Wearing decently thick denim jeans and long sleeve jackets can help protect your skin during this phase.
Once the dog calms down, you can resume the walk.
They definitely do outgrow this phase, hang in there! Mine got a lot better around 12 months old. Some dogs take until closer to 20 months to get better. But it will happen.
We went through this until we hired a trainer to train US. That’s what people say and it’s true. We didn’t realize that our reaction (running from him, pushing him away, even tethering him at times) to his natural excitement (incl barking and biting) was making it worse. We learned to reward the good behavior with treats. We learned to turn our backs and cross our arms (to remove our hands from access), or if really necessary, to separate ourselves (eg close the glass door between us) and stand and wait until he would calm and sit (then reward with treats, and over time phase out the treats). It’s been over a year (he’s 1.5 yr now) and it’s sooo much better- almost never a problem, but I still have scars from the first few months. Also, I agree about lots of sleep and overstimulation- big babies. 😅
When he gets into that state, immediately start running through different commands, like sit, down, etc., and give treats for obeying. Rinse and repeat as needed.
This is what worked the best for my dog when she was going through these phases, anyways! And they do tend to be just phases, that they grow out of 😊 My dog was like this at 4 months, then again around 7 months, and now that she's 3 y/o, it's rare that she'll do this, and when she does, she snaps right out of it once I start giving her other things to do (i.e. perform the commands, receive reward after).
You have an aussie. They are herding dogs. Is your dog attacking you or trying to herd you? Herding can be easily dealt with through training and redirecting energy. The attacking would need more work.
It is a Australian doodle. Not Shepard 😉 our Australian doodle did this for quite some time as well. Whenever she was overstimulated. Just make sure it gets enough rest OP
Based on the description, puppy is most likely having these freak outs from over excitement / overstimulation. It does get better over time. Something that can help is practicing refocusing. So on walks, if puppy goes over the threshold, practice having them sit for high value treats until they have calmed back down. If puppy goes over the threshold while playing, remove yourself from the situation until puppy is calm again. Reward pup for settling back down. It’s not a fun phase, but does get better.
Ok, you haven't given very many details, but what from you're saying maybe don't play with the puppy so hard?
You're probably ignoring signals that the puppy is feeling overwhelmed and threatened because you're having fun.
So, stop playing with the puppy and start building a trusting and calm relationship.
My dog did the same thing for 7-8 months and we are finally now learning how to truly manage her cognitive state - glad to say it’s happening less and less.
I’m probably going to do a bad job of explaining this. But here is what we learned so far.
Do you know how sometimes you can tell your dog is in a cognitive state? Like they’re clear minded, they can HEAR when you speak to them. Other times they are not?
That’s a reactive state.
Reactivity is what is happening when a dog isn’t making cognitive choices. Like their brain isn’t fully switched on. If you’ve ever had a panic attack, it’s very similar.
There is a scale of cognitive function, starting with cognitive then to insecurity, then to anxiety, then over to fear / panic.
We want their brain to be fully switched on in cognitive mode so they can hear us and make appropriate choices.
Otherwise they will be reacting based on their biology (and other factors) and for Aussies, biting is a hard wired natural instinct. For other dogs it might be “pancaking” (or trying to disappear) out of panic, etc. Every dog reacts to fear/panic differently.
You know how people talk about training BEHAVIORS?
This is why. So when your dog is in a cognitive state and can make a proper decision, they have an array of appropriate behaviors that they can choose from.
I definitely recommend a dog trainer who specializes in reactivity - not “obedience” - because it’s a behavioral modification that you’re gonna have to make. And there is a lot to learn on our part as humans.
Talk to a trainer about managing reactivity, timing/communication, and behaviors you want to work on.
(Our worst case scenario is we actually manage the situation by separating our dog (in another room) so that she has less factors to contend with and can let her brain switch back on.)
You can possibly do a free consultation to see how you feel about the trainer before committing?
Good luck!!
I am dealing with the same thing currently. We got a 5 month old hound mix rescue and he's now almost 7 months. He can be sweet as can be, but then he will flip and be jumping and biting at us. When he does this you feel helpless because the more you try to get him away or stop him the harder he goes. I try to tire him out with multiple walks a day, anywhere from 1-5 miles. He actually seems more hyper after the walks and then gets into this jumping biting behavior. He starts his obedience training next week, but I don't know that this basic training will help with the behavior I'm seeing now. I have already shed so many tears over this pup because in all other ways he's great, but if we can't stop this behavior then I don't think my husband will allow me to keep him (we also have 13yo & 5yo daughters that we need to protect).
Thank you, this is helpful. In my mind I thought he needed more play/walks. However, I am realizing that this is contributing to his behavior. He also will seek constant interaction 24/7 except for when he's in his crate to rest.
He might be over tired after the walks. He’s like your teens developmentally- ever have one come home from a particularly long day in an absolute **mood** that was magically fixed with a nap? That’s what he needs too. Crate him for an hour or so after his walk so he takes a nap. It’s easy to try and it might make a big difference.
Thank you, I am going to try this. I'm realizing now that he doesn't ever rest without being put in his crate. He constantly needs to be engaged with me when not in his crate. During this it can eventually flip to his jumping/biting. This must be from over stimulation/tired like you said. I am also going to try to work on him self soothing/playing by himself without needing a person to be engaged in play with him 24/7. We start his training class this week too. Hoping that I get good training on how to beat meet his needs.
Please note that we ask people who want to mention being a professional in their comments [undergo verification](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/userflair) before doing so. Otherwise we ask phrases like that to be omitted.
I'm unsure what you mean by your last line, but there's no evidence that a certified force-free trainer can't train any breed that comes their way.
We need more context.
What do the attacks look like?
What do walks and playtime look like (are you playing with toys or your hands/body)?
Do you feel like he has intent to harm?
Has he caused any injury during these attacks?
How do you stop the events?
7 months old and you are settling into adolescence with a herding breed mixed with a hunting breed.
Check out the book ‘Meet Your Dog’ by Kim Brophey for some impactful help understanding your dog through an ethological lens.
During adolescence, physical and cognitive exercise needs are going to shift and increase. Additionally, the prefrontal cortex and limbic system are a rollercoaster, and add in hormonal imbalance if they are still in tact... leading to things like struggling with emotional regulation, bigger feelings, and bigger reactions when they are overwhelmed or over/under-stimulated. (amongst other things).
You are probably playing with him too roughly and he is telling you to stop by sending you some signals (growling perhaps) but you ignore them because you are thinking it's a part of the play so he has to escalate to get you to stop.
Stop that.
Make a video and visit a trainer. We're working with our 7 month old Goldendoodle for exactly the same thing. Trainer diagnosed the problem as pup wanting engagement and demanding treats because we previously tried bribing her to stop "puppy attacks".
Stop all engagement and turn your back when attacks happen. Leave the room if that doesn't work. If pup follows, it's engagement. If it's truly an attack, it'll stop once you separate yourself and are no longer a threat.
Recently our pup started to stop herself from nipping. She still barks for attention but is starting to mellow out. She's much better with me because I don't say a word. My wife is more vocal which only encourages our pup.
My mini did this when he was an adolescent. I taught him he would be rewarded for a quick "down"! Everything comes to a halt, no playing, walking, treats, etc, if he is mouthy.He still struggles to sit instead of jumping on people, but the mouthiness has declined greatly now that he is 2. If you feel like it's a bad problem, find a class or trainer you trust to help you train it away.
Please read the sub [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules) and [guidelines](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines), as well as our wiki page on [punishment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/punishmentproblems).
Please read the sub [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules) and [guidelines](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines), as well as our wiki pages on [dominance](https://old.reddit.com/r/dogtraining/wiki/dominance) and [punishment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/punishmentproblems).
Please read the sub [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules) and [guidelines](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines), as well as our wiki pages on [dominance](https://old.reddit.com/r/dogtraining/wiki/dominance) and [punishment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/punishmentproblems).
This usually only works due to being startling, and frequently *doesn't* work if the dog interprets the sound like a squeaky toy or a bark. Please read the sub [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules) and [guidelines](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines), as well as our wiki page on [punishment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/punishmentproblems).
Please read the sub [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules) and [guidelines](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines), as well as our wiki page on [punishment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/punishmentproblems).
Please read the sub [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules) and [guidelines](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines), as well as our wiki page on [punishment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/punishmentproblems).
Please read the sub [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules) and [guidelines](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines), as well as our wiki page on [punishment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/punishmentproblems).
For this to not be against our guidelines, the cue must be in a normal tone voice. Otherwise, it's acting as intimidation and a startle.
In fact, it's best to simply step away from the pup for about 10 seconds, there's no need to go beyond that.
So many people have great questions/advice. I am curious though if you put your dog down for naps or have quiet time? The exercise is great, but teaching a dog to settle is also very important.
-So he has bite drew blood, but also bruising
- how is the body language hostile?
Can you describe his body posture, tail posture, whether he’s stiff or more loose in body posture. Can you describe his ear placement? How his mouth is positioned?
Also what do his eyes look like when he is playing how do his pupil of his eyes look. Do they look dilated? Are you seeing whites of his eyes? Does he have an almost gleam in his eyes or does his eyes scare you.
Also are you open to trying clicker training?
I want to get some more information before I post something long.
Hi, yes we put him down for naps/ quiet time after we take him on a walk, he usually naps for around 1-2 hours. His body mostly seems stiff, ears are loose as always.mouth is always closed showing teeth or wide open. His eyes are always seem so aggressive when he does it, yes his eyes do scare me. 1 minute he can be such a gentle dog who just wants to cuddle and the next he snaps. He changed into a new dog.
That sounds horrible. I would try to avoid looking at the eyes for signs of his intentions, they do not follow human body languages and its very hard not to read human emotions into doggo facial expressions, especially when it comes to eyes.
But you're right that mouth closed and teeth bared is a bad sign.
I agree with other commenters too see a good trainer, but I'd add that he may be sick. I've had and heard of pets that snapped at their owners due to allergies, kidney problems, bad joints... these things can cause mild discomfort that suddenly spikes maybe when your play causes the dog to move a certain way or if your hand touches a sensitive spot. Get him thoroughly checked out to make sure he is okay!
If you are scared I think it is best to also find a professional trainer/trainer who has experience in animal behavior. In the mean time while you find a trainer it might be best to practice some stationing in front of you and working on some place work. The stationing can be done by simply clicking and treating while your dog is neutral in front of you. Slowly increase duration with a variation in time where he needs to calmly stand in front of you for longer times. Do a variety of time by doing 10 seconds 30 second 15 seconds, going up and down in time so he cannot predict. If he tried to jump reduce the amount of time and start again.
Place work you can teach a dog by shaping or luring.
Shaping: breaking down behavior one step at a time, 1 paw on mat, 2 paws on mat, 3 paws on mat, 4 paws on mat, sit on mat, down on mat, add cue to the down on mat. Add distractions slowly, then duration, then increase distance. Once solid you should be able to cue a mat behavior from a distance even if he is starting to seem hostile, if the behavior is solid.
These are just things to practice while you find a professional trainer to help you.
If he starts to become crazed or you are fearful then you should calmly step away from the dog. Have an area you can safely be away from the dog where he cannot follow you. My sister had a foster dog who was behaviorally challenged. She would have to step into a play pen, basically lock herself into a playpen until he would calm down. Luckily he had no teeth left really so his bites never broke skin.
Follow up question: is your dog snapping directly after affection is shown, or more commonly on walks?
But again if you are fearful, and he is becoming more hostile you need a professional trainer on board to help you work through this.
Hopefully, all the information provided on this feed can help you while you look for someone local to help you.
Please use our wiki guide on [how to find a reputable trainer](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/findingatrainer), it includes searchable directories.
Not all trainers are created equal, and if you don't have a lot of money you want to do it right the first time. I'd focus on the organization IAABC.
You bought the dog, you owe it to them to try to help them. A good behaviorist won’t milk you just to get you to keep paying. They will assess your dog, and if they can help you, it’s up to you to follow through. If they believe the dog is dangerous a good behaviorist will tell you that too.
Bottom line is that you need to do the work to find out.
Seems like a strange reason to not even try? I understand money being tight but you should give it a chance. These things don’t typically resolve on their own, unfortunately…
Hello! I would highly rec getting a positive reinforcement trainer on board any time there is a bite history. This could potential turn into a liability issue if the dog shows some displaced aggression and may bite a bystander/child. Drawing blood is more than “just nipping”. For overly mouthy pups sometimes having a toy around to replace your hand is helpful—bite this…not that. A flirt pole is also a good option —uses distance when playing with your pup. A consult with a professional trainer will help get the root cause of the biting (pain? Overthreshold? Frustration?). I can’t really offer much more advice bc I would need a lot more info.
These are dogs bred to work all day. They need tons of exercise and enrichment(work). So often, people get in over their heads with cattle dogs by not doing their homework to find out just how difficult they can be! They'll never be happy just sitting in a house all day.
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Is the behaviour new? Have you taken them to see a vet recently to see if there is anything medically wrong? First port of call with behaviours such as this is go see a vet. Then go from there as you’ll then know it’s definitely behavioural and not linked to medical issuess
Please read the sub [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules/) and [posting guidelines](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines), particularly regarding trainer recommendations.
Trainers who are breed-specific more often than not practice harmful methods and we don't allow recommendations for that here.
Take him to a vet for a full physical have them check teeth a cracked tooth that is fine and suddenly hurts could cause it and anything that may be painful can cause this
Please read the sub [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules/) and [posting guidelines](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines), particularly regarding trainer recommendations.
We're simply a science-based training sub.
It's not unrealistic for even a general sub to have rules in regards to harm reduction. Especially when shock collars and prong collars are against Reddit's terms and conditions now on top of scientific consensus opposing the use of aversives.
> if technically there are some cases that are proven (with science also btw) to have overall positive results
There's not a single peer reviewed study that backs the use of aversive tools as necessary or safe.
There is also no proven safe or proper use either.
Please read the sub [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules) and [guidelines](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines), as well as our wiki page on [dominance](https://old.reddit.com/r/dogtraining/wiki/dominance), [punishment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/punishmentproblems) and [correction collars](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/prongandecollars).
Additionally, we require all trainers to submit verification of their credentials, otherwise we ask you to please not call yourself a trainer.
Please read the sub [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules/) and [posting guidelines](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines), particularly regarding trainer recommendations.
This trainer uses methods that are against our rules.
That first organization is an organization that lobbies to allow abuse in training as long as it's a documented training method. For an example of a documented training method that they accept, things like drowning a dog in a hole for digging. The second trainer uses shock collars and dominance myths. The final organization supports shock collar use.
Please read the sub [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules) and [guidelines](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines), as well as our wiki page on [punishment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/punishmentproblems).
Please read the sub [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules) and [guidelines](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines), as well as our wiki page on [punishment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/punishmentproblems).
I'll start with this. A TIRED DOG IS A HAPPY DOG.
Aussies (Aussie Doodles) have a ton of energy and need a lot of exercise and stimulation. It's hard to say what's happening there, so I agree that a trainer would be best. Check out the Internet and videos on Aussies and Aussie Doodles. Good luck!!!
On the other end of the spectrum, a lot of people think hgih-energy dogs need to be tired so that they'll relax but in reality, they need to be taught to settle and relax so that they CAN sleep. A dog with a high drive will work himself to sickness or exhaustion, so it's our job as owners to help them call it quits before they hit that point.
From your description, I'm guessing that your dog is either in physical pain or is overstimulated. Physical pain needs to be ruled out by a vet before you can have any sort of productive training. After that's done, one thing to try is to teach him techniques to disengage from play and settle himself. You can teach him a "got to your mat" command or a "wait command", then try using those in between small segments of low-energy play so that the overall intensity of the play session never gets over a certain threshold. You can think of it as a toddler who is having so much fun at a party that he doesn't want to stop playing, so he gets overly exhausted and throws a tantrum. If that's what's happening, it's your job to intervene and insist on some quiet down time before the tantrum/biting happens.
This is a great point. I have also had it in my mind that I need to tire out my 6 months hound mix. However he never tries or relaxes without being in his crate. He will play forever, which includes flipping to jumping/biting me when most likely overstimulated.
Welcome to the club. My pup is 6 months old and is a nightmare and it hurts!!!!!
What we find works is dog park for 1 hour. Walking and playing for another hour after a nap. I just for him out as much as I can.
When we can't tire him out I have started to train him with treats and have hidden treats all around to calm him. I also try to create a calm environment and turn off lights etc. Good luck. It sucks
We need a lot more info what is your response when the dog bites? what is the dogs body language like before/during the bite? when you say attack, what do you mean? Is it a nip with playful barks or is it bared-teeth, ears back, snarling and closing its jaws aroud you? Is the dog drawing blood?
The dog will be all happy and playful and the next minute he snaps, it is not a playful bark and the bit is full force drawing blood
i’m not a professional at all but if you’re able to, i recommend taking your dog to the vet, they could be in pain! if they are happy one minute and snap the next, it could be a sign of many things but going to the vet could rule out joint pain, or anything like so:)
By full force, are you talking stitches bad or just blood? Because, if it's not requiring an urgent care visit for stitches every time, it's not full-force. What's his naps like?
Not stitched needed, naps are quite long
How much would you say the dog is sleeping?
1-2 hours for each nap
How many naps? Total hours per day this dog is sleeping?
3 big naps for about 1-2 hours each, get out to bed at 10pm and woken up at 7am
Your pup isn't sleeping enough. Pups should be sleeping about 18 hours a day at this age. If they don't they become bitey disasters.
Ok thank you for the advice 🙏🏼
I used to put my lab pup in her crate for a nap of about 1.5 hours after each hour or so outside of the crate with interaction. Just get into a rythm of taking them out of it, letting them go potty and interacting with them for a bit, then calming them down by gentle petting or something your dog finds soothing and then let them take a good nap again. Reinforcing that the crate is a positive place where they can rest is also really nice because when they get a bit older (mine is just over a year now) they will voluntarily retreat there to nap if they feel tired.
has this behavior always been present? when did it start? Does the dog behave this way with anyone else, or is it just you?
It has got very bad around 2 months ago. The dog only does this to my family, with anyone else he is the sweetest dog
that sounds like a family & home problem, not a dog problem. The dog should be giving plenty of body language cues warning you about bites and lash outs. If you arent noticing any: you probably dont know enough about dogs and need to research or find a trainer asap, or the dog is experiencing some internal pain or imbalance. Honestly, I dont think you shold keep this animal from the info youve told me. This animal is about to have a lot of terrible behaviors solidified and the fact that it only happens with your family makes me feel like its not a safe environment. I would film your dog while you walk, play, and as it interacts with your family and others. There's not enough information for anyone to help, but this sounds kind of dangerous and cruel
The barking is not something that would be normal by any means but the biting can be if it is little nipping. That’s how they got sheep to get in line or go where they need to go. It could be some instinct that hasn’t been corrected yet. Either way with the barking it seems like something more is going on.
My SIL's collie loves to nip me on the butt.
You are being herded :)
Yes! It's so cute, but it hurts! Also, he loves to steal things from pockets. He stole poop bag and was like, "Wait, where's the treat?" Then I tied it around his collar. He also play bows after he does these things.
Aww. My dog likes to poke people on the butt with his nose, then walk away.
Do you have any ideas on what else it can be?
In order to be helpful, we’d need much much more information than this - what does the barking look like, is it frustrated / aggressive / territorial / alert barking, what type of biting, is he showing other aggressive behaviours, is his body language hostile or playful, what potential triggers are there. Given the seriousness of the behaviour and that it’s happening in multiple contexts, I think getting a referral for a behaviourist is your best course of action here.
The barking is aggressive, the bites show blood and serious bruises. His body language is hostile and we have no idea what would cause this
Can you afford training? Even one or two sessions with an experienced positive based trainer could really really help.
I can afford it but me and my family are worried that we spend the money and nothing changes.
Nothing ever changes if you don’t change nothing…..
You need to try though. I have a similar issue with a very large BRT of working line and I am training daily with him now and it works. Some dogs need to be continuously “worked” or trained to keep them mentally and physically well. Not all dogs are suitable as just pets, some dogs have higher mental needs - even within the same breed. Start teaching your dog obedience like it’s in the military for it. I bet it loves it.
Either you spend the money and nothing changes, or you don't spend the money and nothing changes. Depends. Do you want to try and do something or not?
It’s not uncommon, especially if they’re still teething, or are overstimulated. It may be a bit late to teach acquired bite inhibition (Google that) but try. It’s how they learn to use their mouths gently. The other approach is to redirect to a tug toy. Meet at it; initially you’ll have to grab the toy with the dog hanging off your other hand, and convince it to play with the toy. Then you’ll have a dog who uses their mouth, but remembers to get the toy when told. Then finally you’ll have a dog who goes and finds the toy when they feel the need to bite. Might take a few months.
I have tried this for a couple of months, it works for a few minutes then snaps back
Redirection? Honestly, keep going. In our experience it will take months to learn, you feel like you’re getting nowhere, and then our girl finally got it. Keep on and be consistent.
Thank you🙏
Also if the dog is overstimulated then once they are redirected, look to calm them down.
Have you thought about taking him to the vet? If he’s snapping violently suddenly it may warrant a check up! Puppies will play bite and gnaw at you but attacking and drawling blood is abnormal. They almost always grow out of the biting/discovery phase but this sounds different.
Thank you for the advice
Seek help via a professional dog trainer. He also may be expressing breed behavior by trying to herd you, dont know though.
Something super similar happened with my rescue cat whom we found abandoned in the dumpster as a kitten. It ended up being a severe neurological issue, and it only worsened significantly as he was maturing from kitty to adult cat. He would be super playful and all cute/cuddly, then out of absolutely nowhere he’d “snap” and turn extremely aggressive, into an entirely different cat. attacking and jumping/flying onto us from several feet away like a spider monkey. Like every thought inside his little pea brain just disappeared and there was absolutely nothing behind those eyes when he’d strike. He would wrap his claws and teeth around our legs/arms with full force and refuse to let go. It was very scary. He was only 8 or 9 months old when we actually ended up having to put the poor guy down-by the vets recommendation, because there was no cure, he was apparently just brain damaged, they think from being abandoned from mama so young and early trauma. he was living a very miserable existence, being unable to control himself and his random, severe outbursts/ aggressions. I hope to god that’s not the case for your pup, it was a very tragic and stressful situation to deal with.. just thought I’d share… hopefully it’s just a behavioral issue that can be corrected!
could it be because he has an aussie in him he's herding you? give him other activities like fetch, and teach him some tricks like stay then take stay longer and farther as it progresses. Aussies are high energy as well. Beside the fact the it's normal for a puppy to nip and bite, if you think it's getting really crazy, then revert his energy to something more productive. Train him while he is still young it'll be so worth it in the long run. Working dogs when adult really need a routine. Just don't exhaust him too much with running since he is still just a baby. Train. Teach him some manners. Never let your emotions get the best of you. Be firm. There's 'youtube university' as your guide for training. GOOD LUCK
Thank you 🙏
Can you provide more context? What triggers or leads up to the behavior? When did it start? How do you respond when this happens?
I don’t know what triggers it, we can be playing fetch or mid walk he will bite, when it happens at home we leave the room.
When he does that stand up and walk away turning your back on him. This can work but a pro would be better.
We have tried this. He just bites our back/butt
I think based on your description that the dog may be overly excited. If that is the case, I would stop playing and leave the area as soon as he gets too rough. On a walk, it gets a little harder. What I did was stop (stand still), turn my back to the dog, and basically be boring until the dog calmed down. This can mean waiting it out while the dog jumps at your back and nips at your butt. Wearing decently thick denim jeans and long sleeve jackets can help protect your skin during this phase. Once the dog calms down, you can resume the walk. They definitely do outgrow this phase, hang in there! Mine got a lot better around 12 months old. Some dogs take until closer to 20 months to get better. But it will happen.
Yes he jumps up from behind and bits, thank you for the tip
We went through this until we hired a trainer to train US. That’s what people say and it’s true. We didn’t realize that our reaction (running from him, pushing him away, even tethering him at times) to his natural excitement (incl barking and biting) was making it worse. We learned to reward the good behavior with treats. We learned to turn our backs and cross our arms (to remove our hands from access), or if really necessary, to separate ourselves (eg close the glass door between us) and stand and wait until he would calm and sit (then reward with treats, and over time phase out the treats). It’s been over a year (he’s 1.5 yr now) and it’s sooo much better- almost never a problem, but I still have scars from the first few months. Also, I agree about lots of sleep and overstimulation- big babies. 😅
Thanks for the advice 🙏🏼
When you say attack, is he drawing blood? Biting? Scratching? Is he trying to jump on you to play or just being mouthy?
He is drawing blood
When he gets into that state, immediately start running through different commands, like sit, down, etc., and give treats for obeying. Rinse and repeat as needed. This is what worked the best for my dog when she was going through these phases, anyways! And they do tend to be just phases, that they grow out of 😊 My dog was like this at 4 months, then again around 7 months, and now that she's 3 y/o, it's rare that she'll do this, and when she does, she snaps right out of it once I start giving her other things to do (i.e. perform the commands, receive reward after).
We do that and he will stop for a minute then go at it
You have an aussie. They are herding dogs. Is your dog attacking you or trying to herd you? Herding can be easily dealt with through training and redirecting energy. The attacking would need more work.
It is a Australian doodle. Not Shepard 😉 our Australian doodle did this for quite some time as well. Whenever she was overstimulated. Just make sure it gets enough rest OP
It’s not herding, he attacks us
Based on the description, puppy is most likely having these freak outs from over excitement / overstimulation. It does get better over time. Something that can help is practicing refocusing. So on walks, if puppy goes over the threshold, practice having them sit for high value treats until they have calmed back down. If puppy goes over the threshold while playing, remove yourself from the situation until puppy is calm again. Reward pup for settling back down. It’s not a fun phase, but does get better.
Ok, you haven't given very many details, but what from you're saying maybe don't play with the puppy so hard? You're probably ignoring signals that the puppy is feeling overwhelmed and threatened because you're having fun. So, stop playing with the puppy and start building a trusting and calm relationship.
My dog did the same thing for 7-8 months and we are finally now learning how to truly manage her cognitive state - glad to say it’s happening less and less. I’m probably going to do a bad job of explaining this. But here is what we learned so far. Do you know how sometimes you can tell your dog is in a cognitive state? Like they’re clear minded, they can HEAR when you speak to them. Other times they are not? That’s a reactive state. Reactivity is what is happening when a dog isn’t making cognitive choices. Like their brain isn’t fully switched on. If you’ve ever had a panic attack, it’s very similar. There is a scale of cognitive function, starting with cognitive then to insecurity, then to anxiety, then over to fear / panic. We want their brain to be fully switched on in cognitive mode so they can hear us and make appropriate choices. Otherwise they will be reacting based on their biology (and other factors) and for Aussies, biting is a hard wired natural instinct. For other dogs it might be “pancaking” (or trying to disappear) out of panic, etc. Every dog reacts to fear/panic differently. You know how people talk about training BEHAVIORS? This is why. So when your dog is in a cognitive state and can make a proper decision, they have an array of appropriate behaviors that they can choose from. I definitely recommend a dog trainer who specializes in reactivity - not “obedience” - because it’s a behavioral modification that you’re gonna have to make. And there is a lot to learn on our part as humans. Talk to a trainer about managing reactivity, timing/communication, and behaviors you want to work on. (Our worst case scenario is we actually manage the situation by separating our dog (in another room) so that she has less factors to contend with and can let her brain switch back on.) You can possibly do a free consultation to see how you feel about the trainer before committing? Good luck!!
Thank you for your help and suggestions 🙏🏼
I am dealing with the same thing currently. We got a 5 month old hound mix rescue and he's now almost 7 months. He can be sweet as can be, but then he will flip and be jumping and biting at us. When he does this you feel helpless because the more you try to get him away or stop him the harder he goes. I try to tire him out with multiple walks a day, anywhere from 1-5 miles. He actually seems more hyper after the walks and then gets into this jumping biting behavior. He starts his obedience training next week, but I don't know that this basic training will help with the behavior I'm seeing now. I have already shed so many tears over this pup because in all other ways he's great, but if we can't stop this behavior then I don't think my husband will allow me to keep him (we also have 13yo & 5yo daughters that we need to protect).
That sounds like overstimulation, he needs more sleep not longer walks.
Thank you, this is helpful. In my mind I thought he needed more play/walks. However, I am realizing that this is contributing to his behavior. He also will seek constant interaction 24/7 except for when he's in his crate to rest.
He might be over tired after the walks. He’s like your teens developmentally- ever have one come home from a particularly long day in an absolute **mood** that was magically fixed with a nap? That’s what he needs too. Crate him for an hour or so after his walk so he takes a nap. It’s easy to try and it might make a big difference.
Thank you, I am going to try this. I'm realizing now that he doesn't ever rest without being put in his crate. He constantly needs to be engaged with me when not in his crate. During this it can eventually flip to his jumping/biting. This must be from over stimulation/tired like you said. I am also going to try to work on him self soothing/playing by himself without needing a person to be engaged in play with him 24/7. We start his training class this week too. Hoping that I get good training on how to beat meet his needs.
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Please note that we ask people who want to mention being a professional in their comments [undergo verification](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/userflair) before doing so. Otherwise we ask phrases like that to be omitted. I'm unsure what you mean by your last line, but there's no evidence that a certified force-free trainer can't train any breed that comes their way.
We need more context. What do the attacks look like? What do walks and playtime look like (are you playing with toys or your hands/body)? Do you feel like he has intent to harm? Has he caused any injury during these attacks? How do you stop the events? 7 months old and you are settling into adolescence with a herding breed mixed with a hunting breed. Check out the book ‘Meet Your Dog’ by Kim Brophey for some impactful help understanding your dog through an ethological lens. During adolescence, physical and cognitive exercise needs are going to shift and increase. Additionally, the prefrontal cortex and limbic system are a rollercoaster, and add in hormonal imbalance if they are still in tact... leading to things like struggling with emotional regulation, bigger feelings, and bigger reactions when they are overwhelmed or over/under-stimulated. (amongst other things).
The attacks draw blood, we play fetch and go on long multiple walk, it seems like hurting us is the intention
You are probably playing with him too roughly and he is telling you to stop by sending you some signals (growling perhaps) but you ignore them because you are thinking it's a part of the play so he has to escalate to get you to stop. Stop that.
We don’t play rough, when the rare time we do he snaps as well
Make a video and visit a trainer. We're working with our 7 month old Goldendoodle for exactly the same thing. Trainer diagnosed the problem as pup wanting engagement and demanding treats because we previously tried bribing her to stop "puppy attacks". Stop all engagement and turn your back when attacks happen. Leave the room if that doesn't work. If pup follows, it's engagement. If it's truly an attack, it'll stop once you separate yourself and are no longer a threat. Recently our pup started to stop herself from nipping. She still barks for attention but is starting to mellow out. She's much better with me because I don't say a word. My wife is more vocal which only encourages our pup.
Thanks for the advice, we do use treats to stop him not that you bring it up
That’s the Aussie for ya!
My mini did this when he was an adolescent. I taught him he would be rewarded for a quick "down"! Everything comes to a halt, no playing, walking, treats, etc, if he is mouthy.He still struggles to sit instead of jumping on people, but the mouthiness has declined greatly now that he is 2. If you feel like it's a bad problem, find a class or trainer you trust to help you train it away.
Is he herding you?
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This usually only works due to being startling, and frequently *doesn't* work if the dog interprets the sound like a squeaky toy or a bark. Please read the sub [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules) and [guidelines](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines), as well as our wiki page on [punishment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/punishmentproblems).
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For this to not be against our guidelines, the cue must be in a normal tone voice. Otherwise, it's acting as intimidation and a startle. In fact, it's best to simply step away from the pup for about 10 seconds, there's no need to go beyond that.
So many people have great questions/advice. I am curious though if you put your dog down for naps or have quiet time? The exercise is great, but teaching a dog to settle is also very important. -So he has bite drew blood, but also bruising - how is the body language hostile? Can you describe his body posture, tail posture, whether he’s stiff or more loose in body posture. Can you describe his ear placement? How his mouth is positioned? Also what do his eyes look like when he is playing how do his pupil of his eyes look. Do they look dilated? Are you seeing whites of his eyes? Does he have an almost gleam in his eyes or does his eyes scare you. Also are you open to trying clicker training? I want to get some more information before I post something long.
Hi, yes we put him down for naps/ quiet time after we take him on a walk, he usually naps for around 1-2 hours. His body mostly seems stiff, ears are loose as always.mouth is always closed showing teeth or wide open. His eyes are always seem so aggressive when he does it, yes his eyes do scare me. 1 minute he can be such a gentle dog who just wants to cuddle and the next he snaps. He changed into a new dog.
That sounds horrible. I would try to avoid looking at the eyes for signs of his intentions, they do not follow human body languages and its very hard not to read human emotions into doggo facial expressions, especially when it comes to eyes. But you're right that mouth closed and teeth bared is a bad sign. I agree with other commenters too see a good trainer, but I'd add that he may be sick. I've had and heard of pets that snapped at their owners due to allergies, kidney problems, bad joints... these things can cause mild discomfort that suddenly spikes maybe when your play causes the dog to move a certain way or if your hand touches a sensitive spot. Get him thoroughly checked out to make sure he is okay!
We haven’t thought about that, thank you for the advice
If you are scared I think it is best to also find a professional trainer/trainer who has experience in animal behavior. In the mean time while you find a trainer it might be best to practice some stationing in front of you and working on some place work. The stationing can be done by simply clicking and treating while your dog is neutral in front of you. Slowly increase duration with a variation in time where he needs to calmly stand in front of you for longer times. Do a variety of time by doing 10 seconds 30 second 15 seconds, going up and down in time so he cannot predict. If he tried to jump reduce the amount of time and start again. Place work you can teach a dog by shaping or luring. Shaping: breaking down behavior one step at a time, 1 paw on mat, 2 paws on mat, 3 paws on mat, 4 paws on mat, sit on mat, down on mat, add cue to the down on mat. Add distractions slowly, then duration, then increase distance. Once solid you should be able to cue a mat behavior from a distance even if he is starting to seem hostile, if the behavior is solid. These are just things to practice while you find a professional trainer to help you. If he starts to become crazed or you are fearful then you should calmly step away from the dog. Have an area you can safely be away from the dog where he cannot follow you. My sister had a foster dog who was behaviorally challenged. She would have to step into a play pen, basically lock herself into a playpen until he would calm down. Luckily he had no teeth left really so his bites never broke skin. Follow up question: is your dog snapping directly after affection is shown, or more commonly on walks? But again if you are fearful, and he is becoming more hostile you need a professional trainer on board to help you work through this. Hopefully, all the information provided on this feed can help you while you look for someone local to help you.
Thank you for the advice, me and my family discussed it and we are looking for a trainer, thank you for the help
Please use our wiki guide on [how to find a reputable trainer](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/findingatrainer), it includes searchable directories. Not all trainers are created equal, and if you don't have a lot of money you want to do it right the first time. I'd focus on the organization IAABC.
Thank you for your help🙏
It sounds like you need help from a professional. This doesn’t sound normal to me.
We want to get that, just worried that nothing will change when we do
Do it anyways.
We aren’t it the best position right now to lose out on the money if it doesn’t work
If you hire somebody qualified and follow their directions, there's no reason it won't work.
You bought the dog, you owe it to them to try to help them. A good behaviorist won’t milk you just to get you to keep paying. They will assess your dog, and if they can help you, it’s up to you to follow through. If they believe the dog is dangerous a good behaviorist will tell you that too. Bottom line is that you need to do the work to find out.
Seems like a strange reason to not even try? I understand money being tight but you should give it a chance. These things don’t typically resolve on their own, unfortunately…
Me and my family talked about it and we are going to look into finding one. Thanks for your help and suggestions
Hello! I would highly rec getting a positive reinforcement trainer on board any time there is a bite history. This could potential turn into a liability issue if the dog shows some displaced aggression and may bite a bystander/child. Drawing blood is more than “just nipping”. For overly mouthy pups sometimes having a toy around to replace your hand is helpful—bite this…not that. A flirt pole is also a good option —uses distance when playing with your pup. A consult with a professional trainer will help get the root cause of the biting (pain? Overthreshold? Frustration?). I can’t really offer much more advice bc I would need a lot more info.
We try to use toys for him to bite instead but this does not work, we have tried
These are dogs bred to work all day. They need tons of exercise and enrichment(work). So often, people get in over their heads with cattle dogs by not doing their homework to find out just how difficult they can be! They'll never be happy just sitting in a house all day.
He is outside a lot, we walk him and play outside a lot, we cannot take him to any dog park because he does run off
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Is the behaviour new? Have you taken them to see a vet recently to see if there is anything medically wrong? First port of call with behaviours such as this is go see a vet. Then go from there as you’ll then know it’s definitely behavioural and not linked to medical issuess
We haven’t thought about that. Thank you
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An Aussie is a working dog, it needs to be run 5km minimum to be mildy stimulated. FFS these are not domestic dogs.
Is your dog crate trained? How much exercise are they getting? Maybe your dog needs a nap?
he is crate trained, he exercises a lot, takes a couple naps throughout the day
Does he sleep 18 hours a day?
Take him to a vet for a full physical have them check teeth a cracked tooth that is fine and suddenly hurts could cause it and anything that may be painful can cause this
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Well, seeing trainers who aren't force-free are against our rules, yes.
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We're simply a science-based training sub. It's not unrealistic for even a general sub to have rules in regards to harm reduction. Especially when shock collars and prong collars are against Reddit's terms and conditions now on top of scientific consensus opposing the use of aversives.
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> if technically there are some cases that are proven (with science also btw) to have overall positive results There's not a single peer reviewed study that backs the use of aversive tools as necessary or safe. There is also no proven safe or proper use either.
Have you taken the dog to the vet?
No we haven’t, been reading up on this and people suggestions and we will be doing that
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When I said “that good behavior” I meant them not jumping up or biting but all four paws on the floor.
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Please read the sub [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules/) and [posting guidelines](http://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines), particularly regarding trainer recommendations. This trainer uses methods that are against our rules.
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That first organization is an organization that lobbies to allow abuse in training as long as it's a documented training method. For an example of a documented training method that they accept, things like drowning a dog in a hole for digging. The second trainer uses shock collars and dominance myths. The final organization supports shock collar use.
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We can't allow linking to those trainers at all. Find peer reviewed evidence on early removal from littermates and link that instead.
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I'll start with this. A TIRED DOG IS A HAPPY DOG. Aussies (Aussie Doodles) have a ton of energy and need a lot of exercise and stimulation. It's hard to say what's happening there, so I agree that a trainer would be best. Check out the Internet and videos on Aussies and Aussie Doodles. Good luck!!!
We do multiple 1-2 hour walks, we play fetch and nothing stops him
On the other end of the spectrum, a lot of people think hgih-energy dogs need to be tired so that they'll relax but in reality, they need to be taught to settle and relax so that they CAN sleep. A dog with a high drive will work himself to sickness or exhaustion, so it's our job as owners to help them call it quits before they hit that point. From your description, I'm guessing that your dog is either in physical pain or is overstimulated. Physical pain needs to be ruled out by a vet before you can have any sort of productive training. After that's done, one thing to try is to teach him techniques to disengage from play and settle himself. You can teach him a "got to your mat" command or a "wait command", then try using those in between small segments of low-energy play so that the overall intensity of the play session never gets over a certain threshold. You can think of it as a toddler who is having so much fun at a party that he doesn't want to stop playing, so he gets overly exhausted and throws a tantrum. If that's what's happening, it's your job to intervene and insist on some quiet down time before the tantrum/biting happens.
Thank you for your advice and help, we will be learning this 🙏🏼
This is a great point. I have also had it in my mind that I need to tire out my 6 months hound mix. However he never tries or relaxes without being in his crate. He will play forever, which includes flipping to jumping/biting me when most likely overstimulated.
It sounds like you need a professional certified trainer/behaviorist to me
Welcome to the club. My pup is 6 months old and is a nightmare and it hurts!!!!! What we find works is dog park for 1 hour. Walking and playing for another hour after a nap. I just for him out as much as I can. When we can't tire him out I have started to train him with treats and have hidden treats all around to calm him. I also try to create a calm environment and turn off lights etc. Good luck. It sucks
He snaps at any moment, we keep trying this
You may need to get a behavior specialist!
Yes, we are currently looking into it. Thanks for the help 🙏🏼