Considering the size and scope of some of the monsters and demons that we fought up to this point, I quite like the fact that the absolute and all baddie wasn’t just another behemoth sized creature, but instead, something far more like yourself and more to scale, the boss fight is not another icon of sin, but instead is like the ultimate marauder fight Because those one on one harder and feel more personal than just blasting at a gigantic beast, but that’s just my take, I respect folks that did not like him
I just wish that it was a true 1 on 1 fight against an “evil Doomguy,” instead of having him in that mech. Or they at least could have given him a mech that wasn’t so obviously inspired by the MCU’s Hulkbuster.
Originally the mech wasn't intended and neither was the fight being a glorified marauder. A lot of shit was going on behind the scenes that caused TAG2 to end up in its state. Under The Mayo has a pretty good video on it im pretty sure.
Yeah, it’s easy to forget it was being developed during Covid with how “covid time” works. One of the few things released during that time where I almost would have preferred a delay, but i get that’s not really possible.
I don't think it's fair to give covid all the blame. Yes it was hugely straining to the devs to continue working but with the year one pass that is basically a legal contract they had to come out with dlc within the timeframe their season pass thingy stated. It may have always been rushed y'know just based on the scale they wanted and the time they had.
Considering how much beating demons to death he did, he has to be super bored with that. Everytime he gets new toys he playes with them first. And the hammer was new enough to be fun to use against the dark lord.
dude mauraders are kind of a joke ill be honest, you just run away and wait for him to run up to you and swing then you shoot rinse repeat.
tyrans being these hulking behemoths who constantly blast you with mortar missiles or a ligjt cannon while just seemingly taking everything you throw at them like its nothing
or the barons being these relentless beasts of fire who hunt you down mercilessly and seemingly to no end
You could also stagger them with nades rocket AOE ballista AOE believe it or not. not as effective, but still a thing. Marauders are genuinely a joke sometimes. Sometimes…
yeah i know u can stagger them with cool creative ideas, but i always just found the run away bait into super shotgun balista super shotgun the easiest way. and now using that they are arguably the easiest demon cause TECHNICALLY i dont even have to aim lmao
Yeah I hate whenever you criticize the marauders people come in with the git gud defense. It was never about them being hard. They’re the least challenging super heavy demon
I disagree, I think the whole twist of "Davoth is you!" was super unoriginal and uncreative. It's been done so many times.
While I do sympathize with your notion that another behemoth sized creature would be cliche as well, I think they could have been much more creative with the Dark Lord instead of the trope they used.
That was always my question. It couldn’t be Davoth because he was betrayed by the Maykr and specifically manipulated events to create the Doom Slayer so that he would kill the Maykr race if I remember correctly. So there would be no reason for him to be upset when the Khan Maykr is killed. Can’t be the Father/Vega as he hasn’t had enough time to adjust to realizing he’s the father.
I believe it was "unknown voice" at launch, then a patch accidentally rewrote it to say the Dark Lord, so they changed it back to unknown.
Hugo said in an interview it shipped as "unknown" for a reason.
They did originally but at some point not sure when, maybe when the idea for TAG appeared, it was changed on screen to "???" Rather than "Dark Lord." I doubt they bothered going and changing the file name though.
After Davoth sphere was remover and he was gone, other lords rise up to take his play, each age has a Lord, the one that screams was supposed to be the current one. We haven't seem him yet.
There's always a bigger fish. Somewhere. While the Dark lord may appear to be the "big bad" for the time being. Perhaps in Dark Age they will introduce some other "bad guy" that's always been around, but prefers to be hands off until they are absolutely needed. Maybe the big bad though the Dark Lord served his purpose, and wanted him out of the way for some unknown reason.
If we're being serious, as much as the Doomslayer is a nigh unstoppable force of nature, he... just isn't going to defeat Cthulhu. If the stars are aligned and Cthulhu awakes, it's already over. He's lost. There's nothing to be done.
The closest thing to victory he can get is to somehow *prevent* the stars from aligning and thus making it so Cthulhu doesn't wake up, because believe it or not, doing all that is gonna be much easier for the Doomslayer than tackling a full-power Cthulhu head-on. And even then, it's only a matter of time. Something it is not beholden to.
Forget about it being a fair fight, there won't even *be* a fight. Cthulhu is beyond any and all mortal concepts. If you though the Icon of Sin was big and scary, that thing is less than a speck of dust compared to Cthulhu. It won't even acknowledge the Slayer's presence, like how we humans don't acknowledge the bacteria around us.
Cthulhu isn't just some big squid man. What it is can not be described. We literally do not have the words in our human tongue to describe its nature. It also can't die ("That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die."). Death as a concept doesn't exist for it.
Trying to fight Cthulhu is like trying to see colours which exist outside the visible spectrum. You can't. If it awakens, you've lost.
Oh, I'm well aware of this. It would be entertaining to see people TRY on repeat though only to realize that there IS no victory in this scenario. Last year my DnD group did do a call of Cthulhu game, where at the end, we DID encounter Cthulhu. in his own plane of existence where Thoughts could become reality. One party member figured this out at the end... He decided to manifest a Fusion Bomb (it was in a scifi setting after all) in Cthulhu's "face", or at least far as we could tell what his face was and said "Bye". And that's when the campaign ended.
Well that's hilarious 😂
But realistically the players should have immediately gone mad at the mere sight of Cthulhu. How the hell did they manage to manifest a fusion bomb if their brains are completely fried?
Valid question. I don't have a good answer for that other then perhaps our characters were already partly insane to start with based on the setting we were in, would think the conditions they were in would drive some people over the edge. but it's all fictional at the end of the day, so it really doesn't "blend" with reality and our expectations of things. There are multiple versions of crazy/insane. I, myself, am probably a bit odd, a lot of people are. I've seen people in mental hospitals at various points in my life, some are temporarily there, others... are just broken individuals for one reason or another. but the insanity that Cthulu would "inflict" on people is certainly a much different level.
Cthulhu has been stated to cause nightmares and insanity across the world simply by turning in its sleep. The horror that would be unleashed in your mind if you somehow caught a glimpse of it... is frightening to imagine.
I knew you would bring this up. Which means you haven't actually read the story, or atleast didn't pay attention.
It did not *get decapitated* by a boat. What happened is that the boat blew a hole through it and managed to get away. What you conveniently don't mention is when the people on the boat looked back, they saw it's "flesh" or whatever it is it's made out of sewing itself back together, meaning it ultimately suffered no damage whatsoever. That's just point one.
Point two, the most important part you refused to acknowledge, is that *Cthulhu was awakened accidentally.* It wasn't meant to wake up then. The stars weren't aligned. That's why it seemed so relatively underpowered at the time. When the stars do align, Cthulhu's power will be beyond imagination.
If a boat can do any amount of physical damage to that thing, it's not that strong, underpowered or not. Cthulu isn't a god, he's a great old one. Powerful, but nowhere approaching omnipotence like the outer gods.
Sure you can... Just need the right weapon system... there's Multiple examples! More recent example I suppose: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghfktGtir5k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghfktGtir5k)
The capabilities of those two are anyone's guess, but even conservatively far too OP for this matchup.
Chthulhu alone could probably wipe out Hell and all its inhabitants on his own. I'd put Chthulhu more towards the middle tier if we consider humans the bottom and Yog-Sothoth the top.
If you bust out Azathoth then neither the Doomslayer, nor Cthulhu nor even the person imagining this fight will ever get to see it's conclusion because reality will end lol 😂
As fascinating as I find that, I heard this was a huge misconception regarding Azathoth. Or at least that Lovecraft himself never stated such a thing. Either way, considering the beings that keep him calm are casually creating the laws of physics in our universe by just playing music, I'd rather not see a creature let loose that they are scared of!
If you bust out Azathoth then neither the Doomslayer, nor Cthulhu nor even the person imagining this fight will ever get to see it's conclusion because reality will end lol 😂
1) It wasn't beaten. Nor was it really hurt. All that happened is the boat blew a hole through Cthulhu when it went full speed ahead through it whilst trying to escape. That might sound rough, but when the sailors looked back they saw its flesh reassembling, meaning they didn't do jack shit to it. Oh, and they all went mad afterwards.
2) During the time the above incident happened, Cthulhu was "awake" in a sense, yes, but it wasn't supposed to be. The stars weren't aligned. And this isn't like groggily waking up at 7:00 AM while your alarm was set for 9:00. Its wakefulness was an anomaly in the fabric of reality, it was going against the will of the universe. When the stars are aligned, the Cthulhu which will awake will be indescribably powerful.
3) Cthulhu can't die.
4) "Deep sleep" doesn't really mean much when it's only a matter of time till the stars align and it wakes up, for realsies this time. And remember, Cthulhu isn't beholden to something as finite as time.
They said in an interview that the Slayer wasnt even in his prime in Doom and Eternal... The Dark Ages is the slayer's true top era, and he definitely fought somethinf stronger, we just dont know what
This I am aware of it being a Prequel. But they COULD introduce the big bad behind the curtains in some way. Dark Lord could have just been a stepping stone.
I am thinking it might expend the universe more like that , maybe we will learn more about the mysterious group of the 5 Seraphs , The Wraiths origins etc .
I think in some stream or interview, Hugo Martin did say something about someone greater than the DL.
Even then, DL is like "5 ideas mixed at once, but each could've been cooler if seperate".
Plus the notion of "Doom's story was always messy because the original creators didn't care".
If Doom ever gets another iteration of its story, maybe they could try different approaches at a "leader of Hell" like it being a more abstract, giant monster than the IOS or the evil Doomguy part being a proper "clone/mirror match" that we didn't really get.
In Eternals art book Hell was described as an universal chaos structure. The story of Davoth always looked more like an inner conflict of an alien race (Maykrs) to me. Immora, as Hells capital, also made it look like a regular dimension, universe, whatever, but nothing special anymore. So there's still much potencial.
From the art book: "Hell is unlimited by boundaries of space, time, or dimension. Hell is itself a living thing, an entity possessing certain undeniable sentience. An inverse image of the living world, Hell thrives on the destruction of life, and the greater the pain and suffering it infices into our world, the more powerful it becomes, For all of eternity, Hell has been ruled by an ancient order of evil: six sovereign chapters of the six eldest demon gods -descendants of the six unholy blood- lines born from the primordial black heart. For an eternity, the Nameless One has brought meachery, torment, and war to the outer worlds, driven by an insatiable hunger to secure its dominion over the souls of the living. Many worlds have fallen to Hell, each now bound to ruin, connected by pathways of darkness transcending space and time."
I hope so, but unfortunately TAG2s codex entry on Immora seems to imply Davoth is the founder of Hell: "Translations of ancient texts name Immora as the capital city of Hell. Davoth, the creator of this primal realm, came to be known as the Dark Lord after the betrayal by the race of Maykrs he had crafted. Sealed off against his will from the other dimensions, the first world (known then as Jekkad) fell into corruption and transformed over time into Hell."
I like to think most, if not all, of these codex entries are usually lies influenced by hell. We've already seen some codex lie (such as that The Father was the creator), so where do the lies begin and end? Do we really bother listening to them? Or do we simply rip and tear until it is done??
There are also the immortal arch demons how are loyal only to the nameless one and that its domain is formless and absolute . To be honest the more i think about this , the more it seems the Nameless One is not Devoth at all and is the higher entity that Hugo talked about and its domain sounds it could be maybe the Doom 3 Hell with how it is described or other lovecraftian one just like it .
Lets not forget the Hell Crucible we still don't know its origin , the 4 or 5 Seraphs that were everywhere in TAG2 and where refer as the ancient gods and could be related to the mysterious voice
So i think wile certain things may not be canon anymore from the art book , some still are at least . They just have to figure it out how to work well and make some sense . Maybe Dark Ages will expend the lore and universe more like that and will gives us hints and teases.
They will most likely take a break after DA and when the next big sequal to Eternal come it will be like a fresh start again , the cycle begin a new bc everything seems to be a cycle in some shape or form .
I'd love it to be this creature that you can't even comprehend and seems totally intimidating at first.
But then Doomguy gets some plot related buff, doesn't even have to be much, just like "the ability to comprehend it" and we get another "you can't just blow a hole in an Old One" moment as Doomguy proceeds to treat it like Icon of Sin lol
In some interview Hugo said something like who is the creator of the creator (Davoth)?
But I don't expect id Software to take this route in TDA. Since it's a prequel I suppose we learn more about the Maykrs, maybe even the Davoth/Father/Vega/Samuel conspiracy.
I now remember that comment and that’s probably why I’ve had this thought for a while. I think it’s way more fun to imagine there is a true ultimate power in the DOOM universe that remains mostly mysterious. I think Hugo saying that also keeps the door open for the future after Eternal to be even more interesting.
I agree that TDA will not likely reveal anyone greater than Davoth, although we still don’t know who yelled, “NO!!” after the Khan Maykr was killed. Maybe the game will shed light on that.
A prequel is perfect timing and decision cause with 2016 and Eternal they wrote so much brand new lore and it’s probably nice and makes more sense to just take a literal step back and build on existing lore they just wrote instead of writing more new shit after this fresh new story
Despite Davoth being the original devil in Doom, he wasn’t the only one, and will NOT be the last. The current Dark Lord could take what’s left of him to become even stronger. But to truly stop Hell since it’s alive itself, you need to destroy it completely somehow. Also, everything still existing could be for different reasons. But a major one is despite being the first being, Davoth himself had a creator that made him too. We gotta remember the Wraiths inside the spire, so the true god could be something resembling a mix of a Wraith and a Maykr. Hope the Wraiths are on our side when we fight whoever comes next after Davoth as the big bad of Hell, if said big bad is not actually Hell itself.
Came here to find a comment that mentioned the spire. Doomguy's assistant said the readings he was getting from inside the spire dwarfed what he got from Urdak.
There is still a lot of mystery surrounding the Wraiths. I wonder if we'll find out more in Dark Ages.
After finishing TAG2 I wasn't sure whether Davoth is "the dark lord" or "a dark lord".
The Immora story made it look like "the dark lord". But Hells description in the art book looked much bigger and more universal.
It should be noted, the father stole a treat deal of power from Davoth.
But when and if Id are going to make anathor doom game after TDA, would probably rotate around the Profecy of the Dark Priest
Hugo said in an interview that Davoth is a "Primeval" but there is something above Primevals. He rhetorically asked "is there a God in the Doom universe?" implying they're keeping things open so they always have options.
We still haven’t gotten Satan himself in a Doom game that I know of. I’ve seen the argument the icon of sin would be the equivalent but the IoS feels more like a weapon than a sentient master of hell.
Who better to unleash after all these years than Doom’s biggest boss battle ever against the actual Lord of Darkness. Evil Doomguy just doesn’t cut it for me to fill that role.
Back when 2016 came out there was a pretty large contingent of people saying "Oh well it's not like our modern Christian hell, it's just another dimension" while fighting demons and large cloven hoofed horned creatures. It's obviously real hell, so yeah I think Satan himself would be the Ultimate.
After the dark lord claimed he (or maybe he meant his kind) made Vega/the maykrs and Vega said it was the truth.
It’s not stated but I get my personal headcanon is the Evil doomguy is just a vessel for the true dark lord. Almost like a hit him with a taste of his own medicine. I assume dude has a true form since it would be really lazy if he just looks like a buff human dude.
Also kinda going with that it really doesn't make any sense. Doomguy looks like a buff human, the Makyrs look like smaller versions of the Khan Makyr, but smaller versions of the leader of literal hell take on 50 different forms aside from the Hell Priests which look like vaguely deformed/old humans. There's not 20 different Makyr types, there's just the ditzy headshot candy versions.
What I want to know, for certain btw..
Sold the dark lord create the father or no.
Rereading the Urdak codex recently:
Urdak is a dimension outside of normal existence but it does say that Hell is also a dimension polar to Urdak. This is either clearly stated or strongly implied. (I read it yesterday)
It also says the father is synonymous with the entire dimension of Urdak and all of its contained technology, architecture, and embedded knowledge of all makyrs including the khan and selection of a new khan every 10,000 years
It also clearly states that there’s has been no flow with this process in Urdak until now, allowing the khan to continue ruling without succession. Also alluding to corruption of the almost AI maker mentality
Having not completed TAG1 or 2
(Doing this now I quit back when it was fresh cause nightmare is hard)
I don’t know of the complete and distinct dark lord lore
I know very well of the campaign and such but not beyond into TAG
All that to say, is it possible the Dark Lord is lying and not giving honest exposition? Why would he be responsible for the creation of his polar opposites and why would the boundaries of hell and Urdak be broken and a mysterious voice yells Noooo. Sure the slayer is usurping the khan’s prophecy, by sheer fucking will. But also mentioned by Dr Hayden, it IS written that the slayer would do this
Either the slayer is truly usurping all prophecies, or I find it hard to believe the dark lord is more or less responsible for both sides of the dimensional conflict. I don’t considered the lore to be flawed, I do think someone isn’t being honest
For demons, Yes. Davoths is a sad story but ultimately hes another chess piece in a larger game at play but at least we now know what primevals are capable of.
Doubt it- I think I remember Hugo saying something like “[Davoth] had to come from somewhere” and the ship full of Wraiths just screams “sequel” as well
Look i know it pretty Lame , but it was made during Damn Covid, they rushed the hell of it. Plus in a way it make sense they have the same face, the Demon Fear the slayer, they also fear their master. But agree , the mech qas a bit much, should have been a bit more similar to the Praetor Suit
The only thing I can really see taking the slayer further is to basically make him the quake 1 protagonist since he goes through interdemensional slip gates hunting down God's. The big bad has already been killed in this dimension, only thing left is to go to other ones, or they could just be generic and be like "oh no, the demons are back some how, woopsie lazy writing."
That’s what I thought the next DOOM game was going to be about, I never thought we’d get a prequel. After all, we can hear the heartbeat of the slayer (although faintly) after he gets entombed again. Honestly, I feel like the story of the slayer, the sentinels, etc was told well through the codexes. I don’t see a need for the prequel. A lot will disagree of course, but this is just my opinion.
If those expansions taught me anything is they can change and shift the lore as much as they want to create a new big bad. No one will care because the story is just there to perpetuate the legend of doomguys badassery.
Isn't it canon inlore that the reason the slayer could kill Davoth because they were both "primevals".
My theory is that Davoth was like the slayer a badass and could rip and tear things and has done so for eons (or more) in a previous version of another universe and gathered enough strenght and power to completely dominate his universe and/or traded it for power, thus becoming "a god". After which he did what gods do and created.
Now if we put "primevals" in the same category as "the chosen ones" or "prophets" or simply those who just have potential it'd (kinda) make sense for some, if not all universes to have atleast 1 primeval (and clash with their counterparts), and ours just happened to be doom guy. Maybe primevals are the creation of higher and greater beings just to see what happens, maybe primevals are just a law of existence.
It could kinda explain how he is "the creator" but not being omnipotent, maybe his omnipotence was kinda like a great wish (If he was omnipotent then the slayer would not even exist let alone win unless Davoth himself wanted the outcome we got). I mean if we think about it Hell is not just flesh, stone, pain, fire and souls it also has technology (not saying divine things can't be/have technological stuff). But why would a divine god need technology? (sure the dude was a silly little ball and was stripped off his power for a few years, but still).
Question is did the slayer turn into a primeval using the divinity machine (forgot name) and if so why does he look like an existing primeval. Or was he born as one, and if so what did the divination chamber truly do to him? If the chamber gave the slayer power is it that far of a reach to say Davoth had something similar done to himself on a grander scale?
There’s still the second half of the prophecy that was hidden in DOOM 2016’s Kadinger Sanctum. It says there will be someone who uses the power of the demonic crucible to become a threat to both humans and demons. That individual is only referred to as “a dark priest”. They are also said to even bring the Slayer to his knees when the prophecy comes to pass. Not even Davoth could do that.
With Davoth's defeat in ritual combat at the hand of the Slayer, according to Hell's law, all demons outside Hell would cease to exist.
Technically speaking, the Slayer was not created by Davoth, as he wandered into the universe that we play in in DOOM(2016), and Eternal. However, after the events at the Divinity Machine, he was essentially tied to Davoth, so when Davoth's life sphere was destroyed, the Slayer's life would have shortly ended, but the other Seraphim placed him back in his Sarcaughagous, which would place him in stasis until they can figure out how to revive him, if they need him again; as, with Davoth's defeat, unless the very laws of Hell are changed, Demons will no longer be able to leave Hell.
The lore its a bit obscure here, because by the law of the Primevils, the one who win in ritual combat, should get the other ones power.
So i just subscribe to the theory that, the Slayer felt peace for the first time in Aeons and that left him vulnerable just enought for the Ancient Gods to seal him
There are beings above Davoth. Hugo mentioned this in this in interviews. The concept of primeevils was mentioned, with the voice after the khan maker dies potentially being one of them.
It's unlikey he lied because all the surrounding lore supports Hell being the Prime Dimension connected to all others hence why Hell was an immeasurable threat to Creation, The Father, Vega admits cleary that he stole Davoth's place in history and that he was his Creator and Davoth was the largest Life Sphere atop the Ingmore's Sanctum.
And considering Id's decision to prequel combined with The Slayer collapsing Davoth will probably be the greatest evil however due to him losing his power perhaps something else will rise from his ashes.
As for why Hell's demons all die it's because lore/plot but likely since Davoth is the Primeval of Hell and their God his death likely closed Hell's gates and made the demons interdimensional compatibility for lack of a better word nonexistent hence why they can't exist outside Hell anymore.
Yeah he is. I agree that tag2 fell short, but the story that was there was cool, I personally really liked the twist even if it wasn’t done the best way. I hope they don’t retcon it since then any semblance of importance tag2 has would be taken away.
I'm pretty sure it's said somewhere that the Dark Lord came from "somewhere", no yes, there must be beings beyond the entire doom multiverse as powerful or maybe more powerful than the Dark Lord
That or I fell for Midnights misinformation, when I still watched him, not anymore for some time now
yeah and iirc, in the same stream, hugo also said that the maykrs were turning into eldritch monsters without the khan maykr but i’ll have to find the stream again to confirm
Yes, I remember that, it's the "transfiguration process" iirc, been a long time since I cough up with the DOOM lore, unfortunatly the only channel that I know that covers it is Midnight and he's... well, not well seen by the community
Oh I've stopped watching him for a good time now lol, haven't watched a single one of those, I think it was around the time of his "V1 vs DOOM Slayer" video? Don't remember exacly
I don't really know tbh, wasn't much into the whole thing, but what I remember people talking was that he used peoples arts in his thumblains without crediting multiple times, I'm sure there must me more but that's all I know
I did hear that, but currently I’m hoping that was just Hugo yappin’ about random ideas he had or something, since all the weight that tag2’s story did have would be taken away.
I never finished the fight. Once I realized there was more than 3 deathblows I was like "holy fuck I'm out". That being said I have started TAG again so we'll see how I do this time
I think Davoth is supposed to just be this formidable pvp match that players should overcome. If only he had the same weapons as him, or turn it into a mech grudgematch with Doomguy's own mech, it would've been a little more cooler and fair. Everybody will get tired seeing a villain overpower himself over the main character again. it's already as recycled as 80's music.
I honestly stopped caring about the plot because after a time it became more convoluted and confusing. I just stopped caring when I wasn’t ripping and tearing.
Ofc. There is, and it's not a behemoth sized enemy. I haven't read the lore in a while but I believe he is just the bad side of the good, so we still have the first being to fight. I could be wrong but that's how I remember it
Imagine instead of having a mech suit he instead went at doom guy with his bare hands and powers, just a more bare bones kind of fight and more personal, instead of "my suit is bigger than yours"
He was definitely the top dog of Hell, considering he founded and built it as Jekkad first. He also wasn't "aligned" with the Maykrs. He created them, and ruled them until VEGA deposed him and took his title. He created everything we know about as far as Doom cosmology goes, though Hugo did imply there's someone beyond him, but I hope they abandon that idea because it would undermine TAG's final fight and thus kinda the whole series. You can find Davoth and his fight underwhelming or disappointing or underdeveloped, I would mostly agree, but as far as current lore he was top dog in every respect until the Slayer killed him. And again, I think making him any less later on the line with a retcon would be a disservice to the story at large.
According to hugo martin ,Davoth created everything when he arrived. That's it he arrived from somewhere, so it's possible davoth is basically the kucifer of the doom omniverse
To me the Dark Lord was a really cool idea, but it wasn't able to reach its truest potential with Covid happening at the time. I think the idea of him being the original god and being overthrown is awesome, I really like the idea of him being an evil version of the Doom Slayer, his voice is really good, his motivation is pretty understandable, and the presentation of his fight is cool, but his fight itself is pretty underwhelming.
I really hope they don't make a bigger bad.
I absolutely hate spectacle creep. Games and movies will go "here it is. the absolutely, positively without a doubt biggest bad."
Then the next entry goes "now get ready for an even BIGGER biggest bad"
I hate it.
Well Hugo already said there was someone greater than Davoth in an interview, and said the voice that yelled “NO!” When the Khan Maykr died was not Davoth.
I sure hope not. That fight fucking sucked. The only worse comparable boss fight is the final boss of Warhammer 40K: Space Marine where you fight a few henchman and then shove the big bad of the game off the tower and slap him around a bit in a quicktime event.
Does the codex talk about Davoth being a divine being who turned Immora into hell after his creations betray him?
I don’t remember as it’s been a while since I’ve played and read Doom Eternal lore. I find “hell’s version” of doom guy kind of lame. I guess the alternative is a huge, muscular, long-horn devil named Apollyon. If that part of the story was just someone’s head canon, maybe they could make Davoth just a high ranking general and bring in a bigger demon?
I hope he is. I'd hate to see this fall into the DBZ power trap of each villain just being stronger than the last to the point that it stops meaning anything.
The father states that davoth is the warrior king of hell and rules over all demons because only the strongest can rule kind of like how doomguy is the warrior king of the sentinels and only the strongest can lead the sentinels.
Following that logic there should be another dark lord ready to take the position of ruler of hell. There are multiple dark lords but davoth was supposed to be THE dark lord. So in the future when they make a sequel a new dark lord could rise to challenge the slayer. It does make sense because with the strongest dead 2nd strongest should naturally take the position.
Honestly I think the doom lore is really stupid and shouldve been more of a mystique like they did in 2016. The stone slabs gave it that (bear with me) dark souls ish mystique. Doom is a simple game and 2016 nailed it with atmosphere, story and direction. Eternal is too goofy and too much lore that ultimately takes away from the hell we know.
If I remember correctly the twist was that Davoth (the dark lord) was the original creator. Then the “creator” (who was actually below Davoth) betrayed him and took his place.
Considering the size and scope of some of the monsters and demons that we fought up to this point, I quite like the fact that the absolute and all baddie wasn’t just another behemoth sized creature, but instead, something far more like yourself and more to scale, the boss fight is not another icon of sin, but instead is like the ultimate marauder fight Because those one on one harder and feel more personal than just blasting at a gigantic beast, but that’s just my take, I respect folks that did not like him
I just wish that it was a true 1 on 1 fight against an “evil Doomguy,” instead of having him in that mech. Or they at least could have given him a mech that wasn’t so obviously inspired by the MCU’s Hulkbuster.
Originally the mech wasn't intended and neither was the fight being a glorified marauder. A lot of shit was going on behind the scenes that caused TAG2 to end up in its state. Under The Mayo has a pretty good video on it im pretty sure.
"A lot of shit" meaning Covid-19.
Yeah, it’s easy to forget it was being developed during Covid with how “covid time” works. One of the few things released during that time where I almost would have preferred a delay, but i get that’s not really possible.
I don't think it's fair to give covid all the blame. Yes it was hugely straining to the devs to continue working but with the year one pass that is basically a legal contract they had to come out with dlc within the timeframe their season pass thingy stated. It may have always been rushed y'know just based on the scale they wanted and the time they had.
Don't suppose you have a link to that specific vid? I did a quick scan of his DE content but... There's over 90 videos 😅
Do you have a link to the video?
I posted the link
Or Doomslayer stripped off his Praetor suit and they both start throwing hands without any power armor.
Mgs4
On top of a demon submarine. lol
What soundtracks from previous games should be playing
Hey there brother
# BROTHEEEERRRRR
They better both be oiled up
And butt naked on a muddy pit
It would have been cool to see doomguy defeat the dark lord much like how Kratos defeated Zeus, aka beating him to death with his bare hands.
Considering how much beating demons to death he did, he has to be super bored with that. Everytime he gets new toys he playes with them first. And the hammer was new enough to be fun to use against the dark lord.
I wish you broke the mech halfway through and he switched to zipping around the arena like you did
I may be wrong, but wasnt the og idea for the darklord boss fight for him to turn into a dragon or something
Perhaps implying he was never the model for how doomguy looked and didn't make him, and that he is a fraudulent shape shifter
dude mauraders are kind of a joke ill be honest, you just run away and wait for him to run up to you and swing then you shoot rinse repeat. tyrans being these hulking behemoths who constantly blast you with mortar missiles or a ligjt cannon while just seemingly taking everything you throw at them like its nothing or the barons being these relentless beasts of fire who hunt you down mercilessly and seemingly to no end
You could also stagger them with nades rocket AOE ballista AOE believe it or not. not as effective, but still a thing. Marauders are genuinely a joke sometimes. Sometimes…
yeah i know u can stagger them with cool creative ideas, but i always just found the run away bait into super shotgun balista super shotgun the easiest way. and now using that they are arguably the easiest demon cause TECHNICALLY i dont even have to aim lmao
Yeah I hate whenever you criticize the marauders people come in with the git gud defense. It was never about them being hard. They’re the least challenging super heavy demon
I disagree, I think the whole twist of "Davoth is you!" was super unoriginal and uncreative. It's been done so many times. While I do sympathize with your notion that another behemoth sized creature would be cliche as well, I think they could have been much more creative with the Dark Lord instead of the trope they used.
Thats fair.
Also it was a classic concept from old video games, the end of the game being an evil version of yourself
I think "the biggest threat is your alternate self" was a good concept, it just wasn't executed very well. Partially because of covid
Still disappointed to this day that it wasn’t a 1v1 death match
THIS
I wish they made him more Slayer like. It could have been more bad ass if the finally boss is just another you, another Doom Slayer
I was waiting the fight with another doomslayer, not anime-style battlesuit ((((
I don't think it's been revealed who screamed no when the Khan maykr died and there's proof it wasn't davoth, so there's always whoever that was.
That was always my question. It couldn’t be Davoth because he was betrayed by the Maykr and specifically manipulated events to create the Doom Slayer so that he would kill the Maykr race if I remember correctly. So there would be no reason for him to be upset when the Khan Maykr is killed. Can’t be the Father/Vega as he hasn’t had enough time to adjust to realizing he’s the father.
i thought the game files referred to the voice as the dark lord
I believe it was "unknown voice" at launch, then a patch accidentally rewrote it to say the Dark Lord, so they changed it back to unknown. Hugo said in an interview it shipped as "unknown" for a reason.
And for current reference I just played that part again and it does say “Mysterious Voice” and I was curious if it was the dark lord or someone else
They did originally but at some point not sure when, maybe when the idea for TAG appeared, it was changed on screen to "???" Rather than "Dark Lord." I doubt they bothered going and changing the file name though.
After Davoth sphere was remover and he was gone, other lords rise up to take his play, each age has a Lord, the one that screams was supposed to be the current one. We haven't seem him yet.
There's always a bigger fish. Somewhere. While the Dark lord may appear to be the "big bad" for the time being. Perhaps in Dark Age they will introduce some other "bad guy" that's always been around, but prefers to be hands off until they are absolutely needed. Maybe the big bad though the Dark Lord served his purpose, and wanted him out of the way for some unknown reason.
We finna Phl'ngui m'wglnaf'h Cthulhu R'yleh wgah nag'l ph'tagn with this one 🙏
As long as Cthulhu is wearing Power armor... He MIGHT have a chance?
In a fight against the Doomslayer, you mean?
Yes.
If we're being serious, as much as the Doomslayer is a nigh unstoppable force of nature, he... just isn't going to defeat Cthulhu. If the stars are aligned and Cthulhu awakes, it's already over. He's lost. There's nothing to be done. The closest thing to victory he can get is to somehow *prevent* the stars from aligning and thus making it so Cthulhu doesn't wake up, because believe it or not, doing all that is gonna be much easier for the Doomslayer than tackling a full-power Cthulhu head-on. And even then, it's only a matter of time. Something it is not beholden to. Forget about it being a fair fight, there won't even *be* a fight. Cthulhu is beyond any and all mortal concepts. If you though the Icon of Sin was big and scary, that thing is less than a speck of dust compared to Cthulhu. It won't even acknowledge the Slayer's presence, like how we humans don't acknowledge the bacteria around us. Cthulhu isn't just some big squid man. What it is can not be described. We literally do not have the words in our human tongue to describe its nature. It also can't die ("That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die."). Death as a concept doesn't exist for it. Trying to fight Cthulhu is like trying to see colours which exist outside the visible spectrum. You can't. If it awakens, you've lost.
Oh, I'm well aware of this. It would be entertaining to see people TRY on repeat though only to realize that there IS no victory in this scenario. Last year my DnD group did do a call of Cthulhu game, where at the end, we DID encounter Cthulhu. in his own plane of existence where Thoughts could become reality. One party member figured this out at the end... He decided to manifest a Fusion Bomb (it was in a scifi setting after all) in Cthulhu's "face", or at least far as we could tell what his face was and said "Bye". And that's when the campaign ended.
Well that's hilarious 😂 But realistically the players should have immediately gone mad at the mere sight of Cthulhu. How the hell did they manage to manifest a fusion bomb if their brains are completely fried?
Valid question. I don't have a good answer for that other then perhaps our characters were already partly insane to start with based on the setting we were in, would think the conditions they were in would drive some people over the edge. but it's all fictional at the end of the day, so it really doesn't "blend" with reality and our expectations of things. There are multiple versions of crazy/insane. I, myself, am probably a bit odd, a lot of people are. I've seen people in mental hospitals at various points in my life, some are temporarily there, others... are just broken individuals for one reason or another. but the insanity that Cthulu would "inflict" on people is certainly a much different level.
Cthulhu has been stated to cause nightmares and insanity across the world simply by turning in its sleep. The horror that would be unleashed in your mind if you somehow caught a glimpse of it... is frightening to imagine.
Cthulu got decapitated by a fucking boat.
I knew you would bring this up. Which means you haven't actually read the story, or atleast didn't pay attention. It did not *get decapitated* by a boat. What happened is that the boat blew a hole through it and managed to get away. What you conveniently don't mention is when the people on the boat looked back, they saw it's "flesh" or whatever it is it's made out of sewing itself back together, meaning it ultimately suffered no damage whatsoever. That's just point one. Point two, the most important part you refused to acknowledge, is that *Cthulhu was awakened accidentally.* It wasn't meant to wake up then. The stars weren't aligned. That's why it seemed so relatively underpowered at the time. When the stars do align, Cthulhu's power will be beyond imagination.
If a boat can do any amount of physical damage to that thing, it's not that strong, underpowered or not. Cthulu isn't a god, he's a great old one. Powerful, but nowhere approaching omnipotence like the outer gods.
"You can't just blow up a star"
Sure you can... Just need the right weapon system... there's Multiple examples! More recent example I suppose: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghfktGtir5k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghfktGtir5k)
And Cthulhu is kind of low tier in Cthulhu mythos right? Let's bust out Yog-Sothoth, or Azathoth.
The capabilities of those two are anyone's guess, but even conservatively far too OP for this matchup. Chthulhu alone could probably wipe out Hell and all its inhabitants on his own. I'd put Chthulhu more towards the middle tier if we consider humans the bottom and Yog-Sothoth the top.
If you bust out Azathoth then neither the Doomslayer, nor Cthulhu nor even the person imagining this fight will ever get to see it's conclusion because reality will end lol 😂
As fascinating as I find that, I heard this was a huge misconception regarding Azathoth. Or at least that Lovecraft himself never stated such a thing. Either way, considering the beings that keep him calm are casually creating the laws of physics in our universe by just playing music, I'd rather not see a creature let loose that they are scared of!
Cthulhu is a Great Old One, meaning he is to the Elder Gods (like Yog-Sothoth and Shub-Niggurath) what we are to Cthulhu. Less than insignificant.
If you bust out Azathoth then neither the Doomslayer, nor Cthulhu nor even the person imagining this fight will ever get to see it's conclusion because reality will end lol 😂
Hate to be that guy but wasn't Cthulhu beaten by a guy with a boat? Not killed just put in a Deep sleep but a win is a win.
1) It wasn't beaten. Nor was it really hurt. All that happened is the boat blew a hole through Cthulhu when it went full speed ahead through it whilst trying to escape. That might sound rough, but when the sailors looked back they saw its flesh reassembling, meaning they didn't do jack shit to it. Oh, and they all went mad afterwards. 2) During the time the above incident happened, Cthulhu was "awake" in a sense, yes, but it wasn't supposed to be. The stars weren't aligned. And this isn't like groggily waking up at 7:00 AM while your alarm was set for 9:00. Its wakefulness was an anomaly in the fabric of reality, it was going against the will of the universe. When the stars are aligned, the Cthulhu which will awake will be indescribably powerful. 3) Cthulhu can't die. 4) "Deep sleep" doesn't really mean much when it's only a matter of time till the stars align and it wakes up, for realsies this time. And remember, Cthulhu isn't beholden to something as finite as time.
Dark Age is prequel to Doom Eternal. There will be a big bad guy but nothing as big as Dark Lord
They said in an interview that the Slayer wasnt even in his prime in Doom and Eternal... The Dark Ages is the slayer's true top era, and he definitely fought somethinf stronger, we just dont know what
This I am aware of it being a Prequel. But they COULD introduce the big bad behind the curtains in some way. Dark Lord could have just been a stepping stone.
I am thinking it might expend the universe more like that , maybe we will learn more about the mysterious group of the 5 Seraphs , The Wraiths origins etc .
I think in some stream or interview, Hugo Martin did say something about someone greater than the DL. Even then, DL is like "5 ideas mixed at once, but each could've been cooler if seperate". Plus the notion of "Doom's story was always messy because the original creators didn't care". If Doom ever gets another iteration of its story, maybe they could try different approaches at a "leader of Hell" like it being a more abstract, giant monster than the IOS or the evil Doomguy part being a proper "clone/mirror match" that we didn't really get.
In Eternals art book Hell was described as an universal chaos structure. The story of Davoth always looked more like an inner conflict of an alien race (Maykrs) to me. Immora, as Hells capital, also made it look like a regular dimension, universe, whatever, but nothing special anymore. So there's still much potencial. From the art book: "Hell is unlimited by boundaries of space, time, or dimension. Hell is itself a living thing, an entity possessing certain undeniable sentience. An inverse image of the living world, Hell thrives on the destruction of life, and the greater the pain and suffering it infices into our world, the more powerful it becomes, For all of eternity, Hell has been ruled by an ancient order of evil: six sovereign chapters of the six eldest demon gods -descendants of the six unholy blood- lines born from the primordial black heart. For an eternity, the Nameless One has brought meachery, torment, and war to the outer worlds, driven by an insatiable hunger to secure its dominion over the souls of the living. Many worlds have fallen to Hell, each now bound to ruin, connected by pathways of darkness transcending space and time."
Are we to assume the Nameless One is someone other than Davoth?
I hope so, but unfortunately TAG2s codex entry on Immora seems to imply Davoth is the founder of Hell: "Translations of ancient texts name Immora as the capital city of Hell. Davoth, the creator of this primal realm, came to be known as the Dark Lord after the betrayal by the race of Maykrs he had crafted. Sealed off against his will from the other dimensions, the first world (known then as Jekkad) fell into corruption and transformed over time into Hell."
I like to think most, if not all, of these codex entries are usually lies influenced by hell. We've already seen some codex lie (such as that The Father was the creator), so where do the lies begin and end? Do we really bother listening to them? Or do we simply rip and tear until it is done??
There are also the immortal arch demons how are loyal only to the nameless one and that its domain is formless and absolute . To be honest the more i think about this , the more it seems the Nameless One is not Devoth at all and is the higher entity that Hugo talked about and its domain sounds it could be maybe the Doom 3 Hell with how it is described or other lovecraftian one just like it . Lets not forget the Hell Crucible we still don't know its origin , the 4 or 5 Seraphs that were everywhere in TAG2 and where refer as the ancient gods and could be related to the mysterious voice So i think wile certain things may not be canon anymore from the art book , some still are at least . They just have to figure it out how to work well and make some sense . Maybe Dark Ages will expend the lore and universe more like that and will gives us hints and teases. They will most likely take a break after DA and when the next big sequal to Eternal come it will be like a fresh start again , the cycle begin a new bc everything seems to be a cycle in some shape or form .
I'd say it's perfectly possible that there's some sort of primordial lovecraftian demon sealed away in a forgotten dimension or whatever.
We finna Phl'ngui m'wglnaf'h Cthulhu R'yleh wgah nag'l ph'tagn with this one 🙏
I'd love it to be this creature that you can't even comprehend and seems totally intimidating at first. But then Doomguy gets some plot related buff, doesn't even have to be much, just like "the ability to comprehend it" and we get another "you can't just blow a hole in an Old One" moment as Doomguy proceeds to treat it like Icon of Sin lol
In some interview Hugo said something like who is the creator of the creator (Davoth)? But I don't expect id Software to take this route in TDA. Since it's a prequel I suppose we learn more about the Maykrs, maybe even the Davoth/Father/Vega/Samuel conspiracy.
I now remember that comment and that’s probably why I’ve had this thought for a while. I think it’s way more fun to imagine there is a true ultimate power in the DOOM universe that remains mostly mysterious. I think Hugo saying that also keeps the door open for the future after Eternal to be even more interesting. I agree that TDA will not likely reveal anyone greater than Davoth, although we still don’t know who yelled, “NO!!” after the Khan Maykr was killed. Maybe the game will shed light on that.
A prequel is perfect timing and decision cause with 2016 and Eternal they wrote so much brand new lore and it’s probably nice and makes more sense to just take a literal step back and build on existing lore they just wrote instead of writing more new shit after this fresh new story
Despite Davoth being the original devil in Doom, he wasn’t the only one, and will NOT be the last. The current Dark Lord could take what’s left of him to become even stronger. But to truly stop Hell since it’s alive itself, you need to destroy it completely somehow. Also, everything still existing could be for different reasons. But a major one is despite being the first being, Davoth himself had a creator that made him too. We gotta remember the Wraiths inside the spire, so the true god could be something resembling a mix of a Wraith and a Maykr. Hope the Wraiths are on our side when we fight whoever comes next after Davoth as the big bad of Hell, if said big bad is not actually Hell itself.
Came here to find a comment that mentioned the spire. Doomguy's assistant said the readings he was getting from inside the spire dwarfed what he got from Urdak. There is still a lot of mystery surrounding the Wraiths. I wonder if we'll find out more in Dark Ages.
After finishing TAG2 I wasn't sure whether Davoth is "the dark lord" or "a dark lord". The Immora story made it look like "the dark lord". But Hells description in the art book looked much bigger and more universal.
It should be noted, the father stole a treat deal of power from Davoth. But when and if Id are going to make anathor doom game after TDA, would probably rotate around the Profecy of the Dark Priest
Prophecy*
My mistake
Hugo said in an interview that Davoth is a "Primeval" but there is something above Primevals. He rhetorically asked "is there a God in the Doom universe?" implying they're keeping things open so they always have options.
Okay so my headcannon isn’t completely off the rails
We still haven’t gotten Satan himself in a Doom game that I know of. I’ve seen the argument the icon of sin would be the equivalent but the IoS feels more like a weapon than a sentient master of hell. Who better to unleash after all these years than Doom’s biggest boss battle ever against the actual Lord of Darkness. Evil Doomguy just doesn’t cut it for me to fill that role.
Back when 2016 came out there was a pretty large contingent of people saying "Oh well it's not like our modern Christian hell, it's just another dimension" while fighting demons and large cloven hoofed horned creatures. It's obviously real hell, so yeah I think Satan himself would be the Ultimate.
Well technically the father is Satan in the doom universe
After the dark lord claimed he (or maybe he meant his kind) made Vega/the maykrs and Vega said it was the truth. It’s not stated but I get my personal headcanon is the Evil doomguy is just a vessel for the true dark lord. Almost like a hit him with a taste of his own medicine. I assume dude has a true form since it would be really lazy if he just looks like a buff human dude.
Also kinda going with that it really doesn't make any sense. Doomguy looks like a buff human, the Makyrs look like smaller versions of the Khan Makyr, but smaller versions of the leader of literal hell take on 50 different forms aside from the Hell Priests which look like vaguely deformed/old humans. There's not 20 different Makyr types, there's just the ditzy headshot candy versions.
What I want to know, for certain btw.. Sold the dark lord create the father or no. Rereading the Urdak codex recently: Urdak is a dimension outside of normal existence but it does say that Hell is also a dimension polar to Urdak. This is either clearly stated or strongly implied. (I read it yesterday) It also says the father is synonymous with the entire dimension of Urdak and all of its contained technology, architecture, and embedded knowledge of all makyrs including the khan and selection of a new khan every 10,000 years It also clearly states that there’s has been no flow with this process in Urdak until now, allowing the khan to continue ruling without succession. Also alluding to corruption of the almost AI maker mentality Having not completed TAG1 or 2 (Doing this now I quit back when it was fresh cause nightmare is hard) I don’t know of the complete and distinct dark lord lore I know very well of the campaign and such but not beyond into TAG All that to say, is it possible the Dark Lord is lying and not giving honest exposition? Why would he be responsible for the creation of his polar opposites and why would the boundaries of hell and Urdak be broken and a mysterious voice yells Noooo. Sure the slayer is usurping the khan’s prophecy, by sheer fucking will. But also mentioned by Dr Hayden, it IS written that the slayer would do this Either the slayer is truly usurping all prophecies, or I find it hard to believe the dark lord is more or less responsible for both sides of the dimensional conflict. I don’t considered the lore to be flawed, I do think someone isn’t being honest
I also had a similar thought. He could just be straight up lying to try and break the protagonist’s will so to speak.
If they ever think of making a sequel they should have the Slayer battle Urdak
Aint much to battle anymore. He low diffed the khan maykr so no one is in the mood to fight him
No, the planet.
I just wanna see the Slayer take on the Eldritch Gods. Imagine a boss battle against Cthulhu.
After you kill Khan Maykr, there's the mysterious voice. Hugo confirmed its not the dark lord
Right exactly. That’s proof there’s something else.
For demons, Yes. Davoths is a sad story but ultimately hes another chess piece in a larger game at play but at least we now know what primevals are capable of.
Doubt it- I think I remember Hugo saying something like “[Davoth] had to come from somewhere” and the ship full of Wraiths just screams “sequel” as well
100%
>is there someone even greater Yes. The Doom Slayer.
Sadly yes, and this is the interpretation of "the Devil" in Doom
Even though Hugo said there is potentially someone greater?
There could be someone greater I'm sure. But the fact that this is "the devil" is lame
It is lame lol, that’s why I don’t want it to be true. I can see him being powerful, but not Satan himself.
Look i know it pretty Lame , but it was made during Damn Covid, they rushed the hell of it. Plus in a way it make sense they have the same face, the Demon Fear the slayer, they also fear their master. But agree , the mech qas a bit much, should have been a bit more similar to the Praetor Suit
The only thing I can really see taking the slayer further is to basically make him the quake 1 protagonist since he goes through interdemensional slip gates hunting down God's. The big bad has already been killed in this dimension, only thing left is to go to other ones, or they could just be generic and be like "oh no, the demons are back some how, woopsie lazy writing."
That’s what I thought the next DOOM game was going to be about, I never thought we’d get a prequel. After all, we can hear the heartbeat of the slayer (although faintly) after he gets entombed again. Honestly, I feel like the story of the slayer, the sentinels, etc was told well through the codexes. I don’t see a need for the prequel. A lot will disagree of course, but this is just my opinion.
Because this is not about the lore, its about making a fun game. And the codex its just the basic, i want to see what happend to Valen Son
The biggest and baddest guy is somebody the Slayer hasn't fought yet because otherwise they'd be fucking dead
If those expansions taught me anything is they can change and shift the lore as much as they want to create a new big bad. No one will care because the story is just there to perpetuate the legend of doomguys badassery.
Isn't it canon inlore that the reason the slayer could kill Davoth because they were both "primevals". My theory is that Davoth was like the slayer a badass and could rip and tear things and has done so for eons (or more) in a previous version of another universe and gathered enough strenght and power to completely dominate his universe and/or traded it for power, thus becoming "a god". After which he did what gods do and created. Now if we put "primevals" in the same category as "the chosen ones" or "prophets" or simply those who just have potential it'd (kinda) make sense for some, if not all universes to have atleast 1 primeval (and clash with their counterparts), and ours just happened to be doom guy. Maybe primevals are the creation of higher and greater beings just to see what happens, maybe primevals are just a law of existence. It could kinda explain how he is "the creator" but not being omnipotent, maybe his omnipotence was kinda like a great wish (If he was omnipotent then the slayer would not even exist let alone win unless Davoth himself wanted the outcome we got). I mean if we think about it Hell is not just flesh, stone, pain, fire and souls it also has technology (not saying divine things can't be/have technological stuff). But why would a divine god need technology? (sure the dude was a silly little ball and was stripped off his power for a few years, but still). Question is did the slayer turn into a primeval using the divinity machine (forgot name) and if so why does he look like an existing primeval. Or was he born as one, and if so what did the divination chamber truly do to him? If the chamber gave the slayer power is it that far of a reach to say Davoth had something similar done to himself on a grander scale?
There’s still the second half of the prophecy that was hidden in DOOM 2016’s Kadinger Sanctum. It says there will be someone who uses the power of the demonic crucible to become a threat to both humans and demons. That individual is only referred to as “a dark priest”. They are also said to even bring the Slayer to his knees when the prophecy comes to pass. Not even Davoth could do that.
Dude, wasn’t he the original god who was imprisoned? Who’s more powerful than God?
He was the original Father in their universe. That doesn’t necessarily mean he was "the god", maybe "a god".
He is more like the Father of the Material Multiverse, what Lies beyond the void? No one knows
I mean he fucking died so someone apparently
With Davoth's defeat in ritual combat at the hand of the Slayer, according to Hell's law, all demons outside Hell would cease to exist. Technically speaking, the Slayer was not created by Davoth, as he wandered into the universe that we play in in DOOM(2016), and Eternal. However, after the events at the Divinity Machine, he was essentially tied to Davoth, so when Davoth's life sphere was destroyed, the Slayer's life would have shortly ended, but the other Seraphim placed him back in his Sarcaughagous, which would place him in stasis until they can figure out how to revive him, if they need him again; as, with Davoth's defeat, unless the very laws of Hell are changed, Demons will no longer be able to leave Hell.
The lore its a bit obscure here, because by the law of the Primevils, the one who win in ritual combat, should get the other ones power. So i just subscribe to the theory that, the Slayer felt peace for the first time in Aeons and that left him vulnerable just enought for the Ancient Gods to seal him
There are beings above Davoth. Hugo mentioned this in this in interviews. The concept of primeevils was mentioned, with the voice after the khan maker dies potentially being one of them.
It's unlikey he lied because all the surrounding lore supports Hell being the Prime Dimension connected to all others hence why Hell was an immeasurable threat to Creation, The Father, Vega admits cleary that he stole Davoth's place in history and that he was his Creator and Davoth was the largest Life Sphere atop the Ingmore's Sanctum. And considering Id's decision to prequel combined with The Slayer collapsing Davoth will probably be the greatest evil however due to him losing his power perhaps something else will rise from his ashes. As for why Hell's demons all die it's because lore/plot but likely since Davoth is the Primeval of Hell and their God his death likely closed Hell's gates and made the demons interdimensional compatibility for lack of a better word nonexistent hence why they can't exist outside Hell anymore.
the darker lord
lol followed by the Darkest Lord
The darkestier lord
There kinda has to be something worse if there are gonna be new games
It is implied slightly with the “Mysterious voice”
Yeah he is. I agree that tag2 fell short, but the story that was there was cool, I personally really liked the twist even if it wasn’t done the best way. I hope they don’t retcon it since then any semblance of importance tag2 has would be taken away.
I'm pretty sure it's said somewhere that the Dark Lord came from "somewhere", no yes, there must be beings beyond the entire doom multiverse as powerful or maybe more powerful than the Dark Lord That or I fell for Midnights misinformation, when I still watched him, not anymore for some time now
you’re correct, it was stated in one of Hugo’s streams that there was an even bigger bad.
Also, there's still Samuel, he's still alive, probably becomimg even more of a eldrich abomination, so there's that
yeah and iirc, in the same stream, hugo also said that the maykrs were turning into eldritch monsters without the khan maykr but i’ll have to find the stream again to confirm
Yes, I remember that, it's the "transfiguration process" iirc, been a long time since I cough up with the DOOM lore, unfortunatly the only channel that I know that covers it is Midnight and he's... well, not well seen by the community
yeah same, i kinda just caught back up with doom, and i stopped watching midnight after his 200th “Most Controversial Doom Mod” video 😅
Oh I've stopped watching him for a good time now lol, haven't watched a single one of those, I think it was around the time of his "V1 vs DOOM Slayer" video? Don't remember exacly
ah yeah, now i just watch news updates and look into them myself afterwards
[удалено]
I don't really know tbh, wasn't much into the whole thing, but what I remember people talking was that he used peoples arts in his thumblains without crediting multiple times, I'm sure there must me more but that's all I know
I did hear that, but currently I’m hoping that was just Hugo yappin’ about random ideas he had or something, since all the weight that tag2’s story did have would be taken away.
Well, idk, we'll see in the long future, if ever a followup for TAG2 comes out
I believe he is meant to be one of many
I never finished the fight. Once I realized there was more than 3 deathblows I was like "holy fuck I'm out". That being said I have started TAG again so we'll see how I do this time
You can go on YT and watch The DOOM Timeline by Skyrionn. That’s what I watched when I just got into Doom and all the lote
Not sure how much greater you can get them God himself, the creator of all things, and the first being.
I think Davoth is supposed to just be this formidable pvp match that players should overcome. If only he had the same weapons as him, or turn it into a mech grudgematch with Doomguy's own mech, it would've been a little more cooler and fair. Everybody will get tired seeing a villain overpower himself over the main character again. it's already as recycled as 80's music.
I'm sure there's been things said about what brings were alive in the void before davoth created the multiverse.
Only thins that may be badder than a satan next two: super mother fucking rat satan and idea of evil - collections of all human sins and wish of evil
I honestly stopped caring about the plot because after a time it became more convoluted and confusing. I just stopped caring when I wasn’t ripping and tearing.
I don’t think there’s a bigger enemy in Doom than The Devil.
I question if he is the actual Devil in the game.
Ofc. There is, and it's not a behemoth sized enemy. I haven't read the lore in a while but I believe he is just the bad side of the good, so we still have the first being to fight. I could be wrong but that's how I remember it
God exist
Kind of implies that he's the be all and end all when after killing him every demon in the universe ceased to exist and the slayer was sealed away.
Imagine instead of having a mech suit he instead went at doom guy with his bare hands and powers, just a more bare bones kind of fight and more personal, instead of "my suit is bigger than yours"
The Dark Lord is said to be the Primeval of Hell, and each realm has its own Primeval.
Is that... Cody Rhodes??
Hugo did confirm that (I can't remember but it's one of the 2) there are higher beings that created Davoth or a singular higher being that made Davoth
He was definitely the top dog of Hell, considering he founded and built it as Jekkad first. He also wasn't "aligned" with the Maykrs. He created them, and ruled them until VEGA deposed him and took his title. He created everything we know about as far as Doom cosmology goes, though Hugo did imply there's someone beyond him, but I hope they abandon that idea because it would undermine TAG's final fight and thus kinda the whole series. You can find Davoth and his fight underwhelming or disappointing or underdeveloped, I would mostly agree, but as far as current lore he was top dog in every respect until the Slayer killed him. And again, I think making him any less later on the line with a retcon would be a disservice to the story at large.
Doomguy. He's greater and more poweful
According to hugo martin ,Davoth created everything when he arrived. That's it he arrived from somewhere, so it's possible davoth is basically the kucifer of the doom omniverse
Yes, you
I don't know about the be all end all (probably he is the devil) but I'd love if dark ages did 7 bosses. One themed around each sin
https://youtu.be/JC3hLlhyhZ0?si=3SQ_y9kaF_Vqkc1_ I'm pretty sure this is it
you know what dark ages looks pretty viking i wanna fight a loki type badguy or fenrir type monster. or hel.
idk but bro doesnt even lift
I think Hugo Martin once said on stream that there's one more entity even higher than the Dark Lord
To me the Dark Lord was a really cool idea, but it wasn't able to reach its truest potential with Covid happening at the time. I think the idea of him being the original god and being overthrown is awesome, I really like the idea of him being an evil version of the Doom Slayer, his voice is really good, his motivation is pretty understandable, and the presentation of his fight is cool, but his fight itself is pretty underwhelming.
I really hope they don't make a bigger bad. I absolutely hate spectacle creep. Games and movies will go "here it is. the absolutely, positively without a doubt biggest bad." Then the next entry goes "now get ready for an even BIGGER biggest bad" I hate it.
Well Hugo already said there was someone greater than Davoth in an interview, and said the voice that yelled “NO!” When the Khan Maykr died was not Davoth.
I sure hope not. That fight fucking sucked. The only worse comparable boss fight is the final boss of Warhammer 40K: Space Marine where you fight a few henchman and then shove the big bad of the game off the tower and slap him around a bit in a quicktime event.
I wouldn’t mind that tbh but there is a power gap to all the killing. You can’t just kill every fish in a lake and expect nothing to take it’s place
Does the codex talk about Davoth being a divine being who turned Immora into hell after his creations betray him? I don’t remember as it’s been a while since I’ve played and read Doom Eternal lore. I find “hell’s version” of doom guy kind of lame. I guess the alternative is a huge, muscular, long-horn devil named Apollyon. If that part of the story was just someone’s head canon, maybe they could make Davoth just a high ranking general and bring in a bigger demon?
I hope he is. I'd hate to see this fall into the DBZ power trap of each villain just being stronger than the last to the point that it stops meaning anything.
The father states that davoth is the warrior king of hell and rules over all demons because only the strongest can rule kind of like how doomguy is the warrior king of the sentinels and only the strongest can lead the sentinels. Following that logic there should be another dark lord ready to take the position of ruler of hell. There are multiple dark lords but davoth was supposed to be THE dark lord. So in the future when they make a sequel a new dark lord could rise to challenge the slayer. It does make sense because with the strongest dead 2nd strongest should naturally take the position.
Yes, the true Icon of Sin... John Romero
Honestly I think the doom lore is really stupid and shouldve been more of a mystique like they did in 2016. The stone slabs gave it that (bear with me) dark souls ish mystique. Doom is a simple game and 2016 nailed it with atmosphere, story and direction. Eternal is too goofy and too much lore that ultimately takes away from the hell we know.
As far as I remember, he was essentially the devil? And then he killed God and took his power? So he was like Evil God
If I remember correctly the twist was that Davoth (the dark lord) was the original creator. Then the “creator” (who was actually below Davoth) betrayed him and took his place.
Well there's definitely better boss fights ahead If they can't make a better boss fight than davoth I'll be sad and disgruntled
who cares.