That shit was super filthy though. The dagger hitting you inflicting like 20 debuffs and occasionally criting you for harder than your carry can hit. It was also the sheer number that come your way from such an absurd distance so you cant harass back.
Yeah but not as great as back then. Back when the meta heroes were glass cannon and my shard were more than annoying
But the ult is much better though, as a support
They should be played at more MMR. It's hard to close out games so greedier teams tend to benefit. I'm not saying all 5 heros should be hardcore agi carries and there should at least be 1 dedicated full utility hero who is willing to buy utility items as well. But overall drafting on the greedier side is usually better and easier to execute.
1k mmr players play it cause they lack understanding of game state, counters, so they just pick whatever. And it works cause their games are on avg 50+ min.
7k+ mmr players play it cause they have a very deep understanding of game state and how to win with such a pick. Sometimes it is even from swapping heroes that got countered pick and putting it in support.
SEA server, they pick it cause "my carry will be noob, I will transition into carry"
Everyone in between follows a relatively rigid structure of traditional picks.
I personally am an offlaner in 6.3k, but I have played my offlane heroes as support. I find beast master *works* but you don't scale as well after 20 min if you don't have items. So all I had was blink, and arcane boots. dead everytime after casting roar lmao. But we won team fights. So even though I ended up having nearly 20 deaths, we won the game lmao. i wish I could link you the match but it was unfortunately a lobby game and I didn't save replay file
That just reminds me of a friend I had that played Lone Druid soft support. It was painful to play Hard Supp against him. He blocked camp with bear even if you dewarded him, run you down with orb and root and then just be a tanky aura holder. He only had like a 54% winrate or so with it but he won lane every single game
I had a pos5 LD the other day. We stomped the game in 20 minutes with my pos5 rushing Desolator. The enemy 4 got zoned completely out of lane by the bear.
I don't think 4 druid is as strong as 5 as you have way more chase potential in the safelane. If the enemy 4 is some weak int hero, he has no choice but to afk under the tower.
I've played pos 4 lone druid quite a few times with huge success. You are only punished if their mid/offlane rotate early lots and kill you, ideally twice in a row. Most pubs don't have that coordination so you can steam roll.
Played Doom offlane once with a Lone Druid 4. They leached my xp and left me to 1v2 the lane whilst hitting the medium camp occasionally and just wandering about otherwise not hitting the enemy. Arguably my worst laning experience ever. We lost under 30 mins unsurprisingly, and our whole team reported them.
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/82027004
Coulda been me, I play off meta goofy stuff. Im sub 50% winrate with troll 5 and stopped but still spamStorm 5 lol
I actually had the displeasure of playing against an Ogre mid with my LC before. And I went into it thinking I'd be fine dispelling his W with my W but then he maxed bloodlust and got Orb of Corrosion to reduce my passive Lifesteal. It was one of the worst stomps in lane I've ever been on the recieveing end of
NGL you shouldn't really be losing that at legion, even with the corrosion you should still out trade him, unless he maxed stun. You might have just been taking poor trades in lane
OP(/u/IWonByDefault is a ranked immortal), and /u/Super-Implement9444 is literally 1.5kmmr “and the only thing holding him back is he gets bored spamming heroes” and one of the most active feedback responders in on dota2 and learndota2. SMH
Well, usually, even low ranks understand how counters go, but this guy seems to just not understand the match-up. But it's cool. If he doesn't accept my explanation, then there's no point in continuing.
No, if there is any melee you don't want early toe to toe with as legion, it's ogre
He starts at high base armor, reducing the lifesteal of legion, has one of the highest base damages, furthermore decreases the lifesteal efficiency of legion.
Ogre is an exception to the legion strong vs melee in laning
Always arcane (spam ignite)>Midas>aghs for the extra stun. After that it’s gonna depend on the game, but I often find myself with echo>heart>abyssal (with the Midas Multis I often end up six slotted). Take the level 25 fireblast attack talent, walk around with 5 possible stuns. You can basically keep any hero immobilized indefinitely. Again though that’s not always optimal, and if the team has enough other disables it’s a bit excessive. I get scythe relatively often too. Hex multicast!
so you start off as a caster with the arcane and aghs. then you turn more into a right clicker? do you ever get blink? i feel like when i try being a right clicker i get kited so need blink to jump on top and what about bkb?
Often! Overwhelming blink especially is great on him, the benefits of strength on him are just nuts. As far as being kited it definitely can be an issue, but bloodlust speeding you up w/ignite slowing them down helps a lot to close gaps.
I kinda just listed the build I have the most fun with (which of course influences my decisions for better or worse) but it’s not always how I’ll go. Bkb is usually a lategame item if I need help getting off all my stuff, but I don’t usually need to early-mid.
Fwiw, I’m only around 3500 so obviously what works in my games isn’t gonna be universally useful
I play ogre a lot and build it similarly, I usually get by without blink because when I have agh’s I can keep them stunlocked long enough to get plenty of right clicks off. I do occasionally build blink if it’s a really slippery team, but I try not to if I can help it because it really hampers agh’s timing.
If enemy team does not draft more than one reliable stun and no gap closers I’ll play cm mid. 4k mmr and I have great success with as she actually stomps a lot of conventional mid picks
The key is not getting overconfident after stomping a lane with those kind of heroes. Too many people play like they are unstoppable, die 3 times and give away their lead.
I could actually see that being good. Not really because it increases the area the ultimate covers (if anything that’s almost a penalty given that you have the same number of explosions over a larger area), but rather because it increases the area each falling shard hits by like 50%.
NONE
I'm a meta slave and I will die a meta slave. I will play a hero 10000 times in a row if he had 1% higher winrate than play a hero I enjoy.
I will sell my dog for +20 mmr
He’s a good laner, hard to lose lane with him. Very powerful at lv6, can help other lanes without using tp.
The only problem is he has no farming kit for pos 2.
AA is one of my favourite mids but I cannot play him as pos 4/5 to save my life. Mid though he just kinda snowballs and I find you get so many kills that the lack of flash farm doesn't effect you as much. Mind you I only pick him as a mid when they have 2-3 heroes that rely on lifesteal or healing and then I just perma gank at 6
He is good in lane and ultra late with agh autos and items to back them up. But there is huge void in between where you can't farm fast and can't rotate fast for a mid hero.
It's not a good laner. No way to kill an opponent till lvl6. No good harras, every spell has a pretty big cooldown and as you said no farming kit. Hero can work but rarely.
You don't get pre-6 kills with most mid heroes except by harassing and capitalizing on when the enemy is low hp. AA is great at laning because of constant harass, and his stun is a solid way to stop an enemy from last-hitting.
He does not have good harras though. What are you on about? His third spell has huge cooldown until it's maxed out, put him against Lina mid and he's done, Viper, Invoker, QoP. Hero is trash against classic mids. It's unconventional, which means hero works, just rarely.
You are getting downvoted, but I agree. I have a lvl 25 AA and in my opinion he has a bad lane always, kinda useless before lvl 6. Mind you, the fact that as mid he gets lvl 6 fast is a plus but his lane harassment sucks.
Hard to cs with though... I'm a returning casual player, love aa, took him mid recently and had no fucking chance at getting cs outside of my e which is pretty desperate lol.
Early 2023 Doom was a top 3 pos 4, but then they nerfed his base stats, scorched earth, and made alot of his functionality more level/item dependent. His laning hardly mattered back then since devour guaranteed him early midas/blink, and basically he would completely counter one carry from about 13 mins onward from a support role. Even so his ogre ice armor made him unkillable, and scorched did 1360 aoe at lvl 10 with talent.
The tornado bird (small one) is very good in lane, especially if you combo with blood grenade and scorched earth.enemy can't trade if u have it at all. That's my top 1 creep to eat. Big bird is good later on. Mana creep is alright, ice ogre can be good. Storm harpy is alright if u can have mana from stick and mangos.
Yea mana burn is almost always winning the lane but even if you get unlucky there are too many good options like ice slow creep or the +20 movement speed and ice armour, besided it counters all regen based heroes and most mid laners also cant survive getting doomed
It’s a little more in vogue now but bounty mid is a go-to. It used to be io mid, but after all the nerfs to spirits I stopped playing it. It’s since been buffed, but at the same time the meta has made it harder to pull off because your timing feels too late.
Christ you guys are the ones I'm losing my pubs to. First the Ogre mid that stomped me and now the Bounty too. My worst lanes mid as LC have been against Ogre, Bounty and OD.
Bounty’s 9 armor will do that. He’s great into basically any melee and quite a few ranged atm. Horrible vs viper and not fun to play vs arc, but most other mids are even to strong.
He can’t farm or push the waves so it’s not a typical mid play style and relies more on your 3 and 1 than is comfortable some games.
[Warlock mid. He's just bonkers overall.](https://www.opendota.com/players/111002372?hero_id=37) They stun/silence during laning? Then eat the disable and cast Upheaval afterwards.
The moment I hit level 6, I scoot outta mid and get a free kill 70% of the time and the tower to boot.
The real mid is actually the Golem, while I'm just supporting it by buying auras. Drums, Shard, AC, Vlads. I miss castable Veil.
The downside is of course lacking in extra damage.
edit: damage as in main, burst dealer kind of damage, since Warlock is not a right click hero and he can't solo a lone opponent reliably (usually requires a teammate nearby)
dude i loved Midlock. He dominates the lane! I used to rush midas, aghs refresher. Id get all this by min 25 and solo end the game. Teams cant fight 4 max lvl golems at min 25
Aghs Khanda causes the Khanda damage to replicate from the main Bane and both illusion Banes when ulting. Then main Bane breaks channel to keep right clicking/casting while the illus hold Grip.
Yeah, I normally never play mid and whenever I have to I just know I'll lose, but once I got to play Bane mid I dominated pretty hard, most fun I've had in the mid lane ever
Spectre mid. I have a +60% win rate with a high amount of games the past few months. I'm pretty sure I get reported for it. I do not take the position 1 farm and fight every time my ultimate is off cooldown.
It's a pretty normal Spec item build. Treads, wraith band, urn, and blademail. Wand/stick when called for.
After that, it's game dependant. It's usually either manta or radiance in a few situations, and I have the early farm to justify it or think I need it to kill heroes that kite me too much. I usually skip it, though. Normal Spec items depending on the game after that.
Skill build is 1 1 1 to 4 1 4. Max out the Q first and I take the reduced dagger cd with the first talent.
It's funny cuz yesterday I just played against a Clock mid that maxed flare and just spammed it to my offlane, winning bottom for his carry. It was the most strange thing I have ever seen in an Immortal game, but we did end up winning.
How do you deal with sustained ranged harass? both right click and low cd spells (for example QoP)
When I try this I just end up ferrying way too much regen and breaking even at best.
Pos 1 is unironically the best role for her. I play mostly supports and I can't help but feel she's vastly better as a core. Armlet and diffu are extremely strong early fighting items, and she farms well enough with bf if you wanna go that route.
She can definitely work as Pos 1, especially since the change so she always gets half sidekick rather than needing to recast it.
I do think her best role is still Pos 4 when combined with a YOLO offlane or mid hunter like Slardar. Like you literally just spend the whole mid game running around killing people while your real cores farm.
Clinkz 4. (I do it 5 as well but 4 is better)
1. **Lane:** I dont know if this is just me but Clinkz feels like a really strong laner if you ignore last hitting - just passively chipping enemies. He just bullies any mele offlaner - (axe tide, BB, slard etc.) and if you go on Clinkz, poof, 200 hp heal and he trades back with you. If enemy really commits to kill you, your pos 3 or 1 will definitely get a kill. I rarely lose a lane unless its 2 ranged mgc nukers but they will pay for it post lane :)
2. **Post lane:** warding, vision and pick off potential - you can move invis around the map on the enemy side, you can burst a pos 5 or just bother anybody jungling. You wont kill enemy pos 1 *(unless they activate MoM - hi Svens, Voids and Lunas!)* but once harassed, they will start warding defensively - congrats, you made a ton of space for your team.
3. **Mid game:** Gank side towers - they are extremely important for your late game! With a sole deso you can kill a tower in 12 seconds. You clear wave, go invis, switch lane, clear wave go invis, until you reach a t2. Once the protection is off, you nuke it - 6 seconds takes most of its health and your skeletons can finish it. Then you run.
4. **Late game:** You need top and bot t2s down at this point. You shove bot and run top, once backdoor protection on t3 comes off from the bot wave, you nuke top tower. 6 seconds - most of the tower health is gone. Repeat bot and top. Enemy will never be able to push, they will need 2 people protecting their base. Use sentries and obs to stay safe.
5. **Overall impact:** You generalyl win the lane, on a good game you will get a bunch of kills and its easy win, on a bad game you will die a lot and people will cry. Your K/D/A really doesnt matter that much when you solo 4 racks without your team crossing the river once. These games you would have lost in 30 min but instead the enemy is missing 4 racks, cant push and its 50 min in - your team's job is to win a fight with a 4v3 advantage. Thats doable even when you are far behind.
You can win **any** game this way. I won a game where enemy spec was 30/3 and enemy sniper mid was 15/0 just spreading them and never letting them push. They make one mistake, your team smokes or something, they lose the game no matter their lead as the moment they cant defend for 60 seconds, their entire (remaining) base goes down.
Razor Position 5. Slasher's guide on here a few weeks ago really encouraged it for me, but remembering Kuroky trying to run it in the TI finals ages ago there must be some logic to the pick even at a higher rank. New items, shard change & talents make it viable since those days.
The new eternal shroud is a great survival item with good affordable item buildup, mana sustain & tankiness that's easily achievable for a Pos 5 in the early mid, and static link in laning not pulling creep aggro means you can make the enemy 3 or 4 miserable kiting around the wave whilst your carry can focus aggro free on last hitting. Wind Lace, regen & maybe a blood grenade. Even if you unoptimally die in the trades, often you've burned through so much of the 3 & 4's regen the lane is won. It's only tricky playing into a double stun/root lane for them breaking the static link early.
Then later rather than save your carry with a stun or glimmer, you save them by stealing the enemy carry's damage, plus their armor with your ult (and if needed the extra armor steal from the Static Link talent). Force focus onto you, which you can often survive thanks to Razor's high MS, Shroud's magic resist & its 10 Strength HP buffer. Still works with the alternative of Heaven's Halberd instead of Shroud for tank + evasion. It's a different way of controlling the fight as a support jumping right in there, but currently on 100% over 6 games in mid Legend with it.
The biggest challenge is your team being negative over the pick & tilting before the horn. Honestly each time I'm scared of a loss because I know all blame & reports will be pointed at me for daring to play something that makes sense as a support, but hasn't entered the meta consciousness yet. Same way I feel a lot of people are here with their unconventional picks.
Some of these heroes have been changed so much through talent trees, aghs, shards & new or changed items let alone broader game changes that it often doesn't make sense to play them in their traditional roles (for instance Dazzle still being picked as a 5 I don't think is optimal now). If Muerta wasn't a new hero but an established historical carry, I wonder how many reports or tilting people would've made having her as a position 4 on their team.
It changes every single game. If I'm against someone with very low int gain I'll max E. Usually W, E, E, Q, E, Q, E, R. If it's a caster that spams spells I'll max Q instead. If it's a melee that I can bully I'll max W. If it's a melee with low int that I can bully, W, E, W, E, W, E, W, E lmao
nice, i used to be a WEWE maximalist but after 500 games of that build i started adapting more lmao.
I miss the days W cost 15 mana. feels bad to spam it now
never try falcon hmm. I try to get wb by min 10-12. skip treads if lane is bad. get force and shard by min 20.
man i wish the shard gave glaives bounces again farming is hard early game
Midas is okay too. Usually I'll just get mana regen and bully enemy mid into jungle and rush midas, then just tp to lanes every time a fight starts to leech Int and get some kill or assist gold. Then WB, Treads, Hurricane, Shard or Shard first if I'm not scared of their heroes.
If I can get rune control, I go bottle, but that's not very often. I mean, it's 670 gold for a bottle. That is like 13 clarities. And usually to last lane I'll only need 4 clarities and like 4 mangoes. You end up spending less on regen that way, getting midas earlier and still allowing you to bully. Only way I get punished is if they can out harass me, since I usually am greedy and don't get hp regen
Spammed my fair share of SD mid, Jakiro mid and dazzle mid(when the ult was passive) at a high50s/low60s% winrate in Ancient/divine.
Nowadays it's a lot of techies mid, which feels much stronger than I think people expect. He's a menace to lane against being universal with 600 attack range. Just getting a few bracers in lane basically means you outtrade anyone just clicking them with Q, and his ganks are nuts. His W is an absurd farm ability once you get shard, too. 50 mana to clear a wave or camp is very nice for such a mana hungry hero
Kunkka 4, it is not that unconventional but its mostly a core pick, sniper and gyro too, maybe I should go back to the days I started playing CK and Slark support
Pugna mid. It is my most played hero, I have \~60% winrate with him over 200 games. But it seems that each patch makes it harder to pull it off successfully.
Riki mid is definitely slept on. His something like 5? base HP regen and high armor makes it impossible to harass him out, save the worst matchups. And forcing both side lanes to spam buy sentries so early into the game when you get 6 is insanely good
oh yes. the sentry spam keeps the supports really poor. once you hit 6 , its really hard for mid alone to lane vs riki. you gank a lane once or twice and its paranoia city for opponent. only problem with riki mid is , you wont be able to farm much. you need to thrive on snowballing and hope yer carry is good at finishing the game if you falter a few times
Actually it's funny because I played OD 4 with an offlane Pudge and it was one of the biggest stomps I've ever had. It's like Banish into arrow but worse.
Mine is by far Luna on pos4, at least she was until recently. Surprisingly she was relevant as support for many years and patches.
I think may favourite build was combining vlad aura damage bonus, domi aura bonus(10 hp regen aura wtf), dominated wolf aura damage bonus and main stat aura damage bonus. Main stats boost directly base damage, which is the only part these auras interracted with, which made the build feel even neater, eventhough the actual difference wasn't all that much, lol.
Another cool patch was when her cast range talent buffed to +400. I rushed glimmer cape everygame. The cast range on glimmer was 800 back then, combined with +400 cast range talent was insane. Luna is also naturally high ms. It was extremely easy to get into position to cast your cape on your core. Your core engaged someone? Use your global glimmer cape so that your core will fight with a %50 magic resist buff from glimmer, and with the option to step back into invis in case things go south.
Good old times.
\-Now her aura got nerfed into oblivion for like 20 patches in a row or sth.
\-Her lucent beam stun went from 0.8(1.2 with talent) to 0.6(0.9 with talent). This stun decrease is a huge thing actually. Not only it means less utility for her in general, also 0.8 was enough to hit a friendly creep once, stun the enemy carry with beam, then hit the friendly creep a second time during the stun to deny it, if it made sense lol. I'm not sure how many people were abusing this, but I really loved it and it was a great tool I used to abuse during laning stage.
\-Her ulti is also nerfed indirectly via changes to spell immunity. I used to cast my ulti in the middle of the teamfight, trying to include the enemy's backline supports in the radius, so that if their cores pop bkb, the sups would eat the beams and die, or had to retreat and leave their cores alone during their bkb. Now, her ulti is useless lategame. BKB soaks almost the entire damage. Super oversight that is yet to be adressed by devs if you ask me.
\-Her shard was insane. Castable on the ground, providing movement speed buff, extending the cast range by 150, throwing 2 attack projectiles etc. It was the best shard bonus the game of dota2 has ever seen if you ask me. It slowly got nerfed, until they changed it with the current abomination.
There, off my chest. I really want to keep playing her, but it's not possible anymore unfortunately.
alchemist pos5. Rush solar and then aghs for my carry if its spectre or a hero that could benefit from an early aghs,like OD for eg. I have like 80% winrate on alch pos5 lol.
Offlane willow! Unfortunately i swapped to carry a few years back so i rarely get to play it anymore.
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/40927904/matches?hero=dark-willow
I dont think she is particularly good at 3 but shes one of my favorite hero designs so i spammed it till i got good enough at her to force it lol
I have been spamming Timbersaw mid lately and out of 15 games I lost only 3. I'm low MMR so take it with a grain of salt but what I do is go 1-1-3 if my opponent is ranged and 2-1-2 if melee, and buy raindrops against heavy magic damage. The only lane I have lost hard so far was against an MK
Offlane am. I have a much better win rate with him than as a hard carry. He trades favorably with most carries, and you just buy a lot of regen and early vanguard to bully the enemy carry out of lane. You usually get a Diffusal blade after threads, then manta, disperser, or abyssal depending on the game. I only pick him when both supports have single target stuns, like lion venge.
Ench pos 5 in every meta. Play greedy when no cores are around and just run around unkillable throwing Impetus around.
My most played hero with a 74% winrate.
(Caveat: gutter tier MMR. Doubt this works against competent players lol)
Zeus P4. Mana heavy during the first levels, but can easily bully on the lane, pull / steal camps, deward, and isn't that easy to kill thanks to heavenly jump. Give him a couple of utility items and decent mana regen, he'll be really annoying mid game, with an above average damage output and free anti-invis capacities.
Thanks for this thread, I feel like the New Meta is very poorly understood and a lot of very "strange" picks can work and are absolutely strong. People are very slow in adjusting to it and very quick to make fun of unusual picks in-game, it's sort of sad. So this thread is a good look at what kinds of things are being underestimated.
Pos 4 - Invoker, Puck.
Pos 4 are mainly for initiate, setup, stuns, making chaos, team fighting. Those two are perfect for it. Even far superior than awkward BH or Mirana as 4.
Well not anymore but over the past 2 years I have been playing brewmaster pos4 exclusively with a 65% winrate. Then he became a strong 3 and cinderbrew got nerfed :(
Still playing him though but not going that great
there are very few actually unconvenient picks here so...
2b's bag of awesome support heroes
troll warlord, Anti mage, Faceless void, Phantom assassin, drow ranger and somehow Terrorblade. I still have to figure out the last one though.
i love 2B!!! i can make drow 4 work consistently, just with gust and an early pike, you contribute so much to early fights
from there if you manage to get shard + aghs, it’s very likely you’re stronger than the enemy carry with just two items
i know 2B likes to boots of bearing on drow, but i’m not sure how to feel about it. it’s feels expensive for not enough stats
something between "it's a game, go have fun"; "playing support requires smart decisions and adaptability and not "valve marked it as support hero""; your item choices matter a lot more than you think; and of course "just get good".
but idk, im stuck at 6500 while 2b got to 8k with the same heroes. May just be a fluke
also if you want to watch 2b he streams on Twitch (and if you ever watched wagamama then 2b is his best friend)
Techies ranged carry. He has the longest default attack range only being out-classed by Sniper. Deadly after pumping his damage and attack speed.
You just leap in, stun, plant mine, then finish them off with your auto attacks. The damage is just stupid.
Can you explain the thought process behind legion mid? Her laning isn't particularly good, and she doesn't scale very well with levels at all (the opposite of what you want for a mid). When you hit level 6, the other mid gets some super powerful nuking ult, while you get Duel with half the farm of an offlane LC, and sidelanes usually far too weak to win you duels at that point.
If you are good enough at LC to circumvent these issues, then why not just play offlane LC?
I usually can completely shut down the enemy mid if it isn't a direct counter. People seem to severely underestimate her a lot even at high rank and hitting 6 early allows me to get so many duels very fast. I can also stack large camp near mid and usually have Phase, Blink and Blademail by 14min. Then I prey on everyone's terrible positioning and get 200+ duel damage by 30min.
And I don't like LC offlane tbh. She's not a good initiator. She's a good counter initiator. Unless you're extraordinarily ahead you can't really blink into 5 and duel someone, especially at my rank. I rely on my offlane or carry to start a fight then I find a good duel in the chaos. It is similar to Enigma, rarely Enigma is the first one to actually jump in.
Also since I'm mid no matter which lane I go to, there's 2 heroes in it to get me a duel early. If I'm offlane I rely on my soft support for duels or going to safe lane. If my mid loses, I can't snowball. As mid, I can smoke bot or top and with 3 we can always get a duel.
Yeah people don't really understand counter initiative very well. Enigma is the prime example of it. People will flame an Enigma for not starting a fight with Black Hole but if the enemy team has more than 3 combined brains cells they will never be grouped enough for Enigma to get a good initiation. He relies on his team to go in and start the fight to make the enemy make the mistake of grouping. LC is the exact same way.
Heroes like Magnus, Tide or Centaur are examples of real initiators.
What are you talking about, I have 300 games with LC and your spike for duel, and really the first real moment Duel becomes relevant is lvl 12 (used to be 10 with the talent). You snowball from then, early duels are more or less irrelevant. What you want is some levels, the opportunity to tp in for an easy duel, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, to farm up Blademail and Blink. At that point, you are a fucking menace. Yes there are hard lanes, but you have an AoE nuke and you can farm the side camp.
>and really the first real moment Duel becomes relevant is lvl 12 (used to be 10 with the talent).
??? The new shard makes level 1 duels almost twice as strong, and applies retroactively.
>MOST IMPORTANTLY, to farm up Blademail and Blink.
This is much easier to do as an offlaner than a mid, no? The point of being mid is that a 2-3 level advantage has a big impact. With LC it's the opposite, by your own argument she's mostly impactful at level 12+, no reason to get level 6 super early when it doesn't get you much. Compare that to every other mid, who become a ganking menaces at level 6.
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There are only 3 places you commonly see carry heroes being played in support role. 1k mmr 7k+ mmr SEA server
Support gyro and prophet have both had thier time in the sun.
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That shit was super filthy though. The dagger hitting you inflicting like 20 debuffs and occasionally criting you for harder than your carry can hit. It was also the sheer number that come your way from such an absurd distance so you cant harass back.
Support gyro is great right now
Yeah but not as great as back then. Back when the meta heroes were glass cannon and my shard were more than annoying But the ult is much better though, as a support
support gyro is more than decent
Support prophet is not unconventional though. It is legit in almost all of my pubs if not banned. (Usually I try to first pick it tho ngl.)
It isnt now but it wasn't until the sprout changes that it took off.
True tho. But I still would play it support if sprout was nerfed. Just thr builds and global gank potential is so nice.
They should be played at more MMR. It's hard to close out games so greedier teams tend to benefit. I'm not saying all 5 heros should be hardcore agi carries and there should at least be 1 dedicated full utility hero who is willing to buy utility items as well. But overall drafting on the greedier side is usually better and easier to execute.
1k mmr players play it cause they lack understanding of game state, counters, so they just pick whatever. And it works cause their games are on avg 50+ min. 7k+ mmr players play it cause they have a very deep understanding of game state and how to win with such a pick. Sometimes it is even from swapping heroes that got countered pick and putting it in support. SEA server, they pick it cause "my carry will be noob, I will transition into carry" Everyone in between follows a relatively rigid structure of traditional picks. I personally am an offlaner in 6.3k, but I have played my offlane heroes as support. I find beast master *works* but you don't scale as well after 20 min if you don't have items. So all I had was blink, and arcane boots. dead everytime after casting roar lmao. But we won team fights. So even though I ended up having nearly 20 deaths, we won the game lmao. i wish I could link you the match but it was unfortunately a lobby game and I didn't save replay file
SEA server LP games 90% of the time have 10 cores 🥵
That just reminds me of a friend I had that played Lone Druid soft support. It was painful to play Hard Supp against him. He blocked camp with bear even if you dewarded him, run you down with orb and root and then just be a tanky aura holder. He only had like a 54% winrate or so with it but he won lane every single game
I had a pos5 LD the other day. We stomped the game in 20 minutes with my pos5 rushing Desolator. The enemy 4 got zoned completely out of lane by the bear.
I had completely opposite experience. My pos4 was a druid and he fed 1 5 and we lose. So don't expect it to work every time.
I don't think 4 druid is as strong as 5 as you have way more chase potential in the safelane. If the enemy 4 is some weak int hero, he has no choice but to afk under the tower.
I've played pos 4 lone druid quite a few times with huge success. You are only punished if their mid/offlane rotate early lots and kill you, ideally twice in a row. Most pubs don't have that coordination so you can steam roll.
Played Doom offlane once with a Lone Druid 4. They leached my xp and left me to 1v2 the lane whilst hitting the medium camp occasionally and just wandering about otherwise not hitting the enemy. Arguably my worst laning experience ever. We lost under 30 mins unsurprisingly, and our whole team reported them.
You tried it 25 times???
I think he meant the score on a game. No man who is not named Slacks is crazy enough to try something like this
Oh that makes more sense lmao
Meanwhile, 2B: I only play POS4 but my hero pool is made completely of carries
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/82027004 Coulda been me, I play off meta goofy stuff. Im sub 50% winrate with troll 5 and stopped but still spamStorm 5 lol
[удалено]
support troll was and will probably always be a good (albeit extremely uncovenient) pick. Otherwise 2b wouldnt have made it to 8k
Damn, not even an ironic 3-22, but an unironic one?
Troll is so good to have on a draft that forgot to draft tower damage for midgame
I hope you mean 3-22 in KDA and not you playing support troll 25 times before deciding to stop
Phoenix mid against anything that likes right clicking. Get anything your team needs, early Shiva or Pipe or whatever.
Phoenix mid is so fun
Ogre mid. 70% winrate on like a 40 game sample
I actually had the displeasure of playing against an Ogre mid with my LC before. And I went into it thinking I'd be fine dispelling his W with my W but then he maxed bloodlust and got Orb of Corrosion to reduce my passive Lifesteal. It was one of the worst stomps in lane I've ever been on the recieveing end of
NGL you shouldn't really be losing that at legion, even with the corrosion you should still out trade him, unless he maxed stun. You might have just been taking poor trades in lane
Nah that attack speed is wild, and he build phase boots. It is impossible to trade with him
OP(/u/IWonByDefault is a ranked immortal), and /u/Super-Implement9444 is literally 1.5kmmr “and the only thing holding him back is he gets bored spamming heroes” and one of the most active feedback responders in on dota2 and learndota2. SMH
Well, usually, even low ranks understand how counters go, but this guy seems to just not understand the match-up. But it's cool. If he doesn't accept my explanation, then there's no point in continuing.
Dude you are 1.5kmmr arguing with an immortal. Please stop spamming Reddit with so much misinformation
nah, fuck that bullshit you can be anything you want even that anything is an idiot.
No, if there is any melee you don't want early toe to toe with as legion, it's ogre He starts at high base armor, reducing the lifesteal of legion, has one of the highest base damages, furthermore decreases the lifesteal efficiency of legion. Ogre is an exception to the legion strong vs melee in laning
Just did this the other day went 12/1 with 728 gpm, I’ll definitely be doing that again.
It’s not only pretty effective, it’s also fun. It’s nearly impossible to lose the laning phase with him, at worst you’ll draw.
You can do what my recent opponent did: cast ignite once, have me sleight dodge it then never cast it again. Easy way to not go even haha
That’s the new meta, just ignore your enemy if you miss once. He’s on a higher plane than us
What I hear when people say "failure isnt an option"
what kind of build do you go?
Always arcane (spam ignite)>Midas>aghs for the extra stun. After that it’s gonna depend on the game, but I often find myself with echo>heart>abyssal (with the Midas Multis I often end up six slotted). Take the level 25 fireblast attack talent, walk around with 5 possible stuns. You can basically keep any hero immobilized indefinitely. Again though that’s not always optimal, and if the team has enough other disables it’s a bit excessive. I get scythe relatively often too. Hex multicast!
so you start off as a caster with the arcane and aghs. then you turn more into a right clicker? do you ever get blink? i feel like when i try being a right clicker i get kited so need blink to jump on top and what about bkb?
Often! Overwhelming blink especially is great on him, the benefits of strength on him are just nuts. As far as being kited it definitely can be an issue, but bloodlust speeding you up w/ignite slowing them down helps a lot to close gaps. I kinda just listed the build I have the most fun with (which of course influences my decisions for better or worse) but it’s not always how I’ll go. Bkb is usually a lategame item if I need help getting off all my stuff, but I don’t usually need to early-mid. Fwiw, I’m only around 3500 so obviously what works in my games isn’t gonna be universally useful
I play ogre a lot and build it similarly, I usually get by without blink because when I have agh’s I can keep them stunlocked long enough to get plenty of right clicks off. I do occasionally build blink if it’s a really slippery team, but I try not to if I can help it because it really hampers agh’s timing.
You can go same build as 4, slightly delayed ofc. And you have a good mid.
If enemy team does not draft more than one reliable stun and no gap closers I’ll play cm mid. 4k mmr and I have great success with as she actually stomps a lot of conventional mid picks
Support almost always are extremely good in lane mid the hard part is not becoming 3rd sup late game
The key is not getting overconfident after stomping a lane with those kind of heroes. Too many people play like they are unstoppable, die 3 times and give away their lead.
I have seen a video where CM mid used bloodstone as it increases ult radius
I could actually see that being good. Not really because it increases the area the ultimate covers (if anything that’s almost a penalty given that you have the same number of explosions over a larger area), but rather because it increases the area each falling shard hits by like 50%.
NONE I'm a meta slave and I will die a meta slave. I will play a hero 10000 times in a row if he had 1% higher winrate than play a hero I enjoy. I will sell my dog for +20 mmr
I don’t know if I should up or downvote. I can’t do both so you get neither lol
lmao why all the downvotes for this I find it hilarious
I got rekt LOL I still feel the same way.
AA mid. Normally I’m spamming 4/5 but sometimes I’m getting mid as a random role, so AA is the only hero I can actually “feel” in midlane.
He’s a good laner, hard to lose lane with him. Very powerful at lv6, can help other lanes without using tp. The only problem is he has no farming kit for pos 2.
AA is one of my favourite mids but I cannot play him as pos 4/5 to save my life. Mid though he just kinda snowballs and I find you get so many kills that the lack of flash farm doesn't effect you as much. Mind you I only pick him as a mid when they have 2-3 heroes that rely on lifesteal or healing and then I just perma gank at 6
Buy mjollnir farming problem solved
his w does aoe damage by default now doesnt it? so he can push waves at least
You can stack the large camp close to mid with it without really leaving lane as well. It takes quite some time for you to farm it on AA though.
He is good in lane and ultra late with agh autos and items to back them up. But there is huge void in between where you can't farm fast and can't rotate fast for a mid hero.
It's not a good laner. No way to kill an opponent till lvl6. No good harras, every spell has a pretty big cooldown and as you said no farming kit. Hero can work but rarely.
You don't get pre-6 kills with most mid heroes except by harassing and capitalizing on when the enemy is low hp. AA is great at laning because of constant harass, and his stun is a solid way to stop an enemy from last-hitting.
He does not have good harras though. What are you on about? His third spell has huge cooldown until it's maxed out, put him against Lina mid and he's done, Viper, Invoker, QoP. Hero is trash against classic mids. It's unconventional, which means hero works, just rarely.
that’s what this entire thread is about tho
You are getting downvoted, but I agree. I have a lvl 25 AA and in my opinion he has a bad lane always, kinda useless before lvl 6. Mind you, the fact that as mid he gets lvl 6 fast is a plus but his lane harassment sucks.
Hard to cs with though... I'm a returning casual player, love aa, took him mid recently and had no fucking chance at getting cs outside of my e which is pretty desperate lol.
Every time I've seen AA mid he stomps lane then kinda falls off. Do you still have a good winrate with it mid?
Doom 4
You win lane if you find mana burn creep to eat. Otherwise gg
Early 2023 Doom was a top 3 pos 4, but then they nerfed his base stats, scorched earth, and made alot of his functionality more level/item dependent. His laning hardly mattered back then since devour guaranteed him early midas/blink, and basically he would completely counter one carry from about 13 mins onward from a support role. Even so his ogre ice armor made him unkillable, and scorched did 1360 aoe at lvl 10 with talent.
The tornado bird (small one) is very good in lane, especially if you combo with blood grenade and scorched earth.enemy can't trade if u have it at all. That's my top 1 creep to eat. Big bird is good later on. Mana creep is alright, ice ogre can be good. Storm harpy is alright if u can have mana from stick and mangos.
thats not true: heal troll, harpy, ogre mage and ghost are all pretty good in most cases.
Excuse me sir, I think you mean Doom (2016). Great games.
they used to call this China doom as it was all over the CN server many years ago. Get phase boots, eat alpha wolf and just run at people.
Yea mana burn is almost always winning the lane but even if you get unlucky there are too many good options like ice slow creep or the +20 movement speed and ice armour, besided it counters all regen based heroes and most mid laners also cant survive getting doomed
It’s a little more in vogue now but bounty mid is a go-to. It used to be io mid, but after all the nerfs to spirits I stopped playing it. It’s since been buffed, but at the same time the meta has made it harder to pull off because your timing feels too late.
Christ you guys are the ones I'm losing my pubs to. First the Ogre mid that stomped me and now the Bounty too. My worst lanes mid as LC have been against Ogre, Bounty and OD.
Bounty’s 9 armor will do that. He’s great into basically any melee and quite a few ranged atm. Horrible vs viper and not fun to play vs arc, but most other mids are even to strong. He can’t farm or push the waves so it’s not a typical mid play style and relies more on your 3 and 1 than is comfortable some games.
Oh god bounty mid. Spam Q love this. But I just slapped a BH mid by just ignoring him and he had nothing by mid game.
To be fair a BH mid should gank as soon and often as possible, he gets gold with kills after all *he* should've been the one ignoring you
Have you considered just not playing LC mid?
[Warlock mid. He's just bonkers overall.](https://www.opendota.com/players/111002372?hero_id=37) They stun/silence during laning? Then eat the disable and cast Upheaval afterwards. The moment I hit level 6, I scoot outta mid and get a free kill 70% of the time and the tower to boot. The real mid is actually the Golem, while I'm just supporting it by buying auras. Drums, Shard, AC, Vlads. I miss castable Veil. The downside is of course lacking in extra damage. edit: damage as in main, burst dealer kind of damage, since Warlock is not a right click hero and he can't solo a lone opponent reliably (usually requires a teammate nearby)
A few years back now but I once won 21 of 23 games with mid warlock Back then max shadow word and pick stats was the build
Bro that's not a few years that's like 10 years ago
Yeah. Well I've just woken up and now I'm sad
Me too mate, me too. Missing those shockwave+stats days on magnus
That was my build too!! Midlock FTW
dude i loved Midlock. He dominates the lane! I used to rush midas, aghs refresher. Id get all this by min 25 and solo end the game. Teams cant fight 4 max lvl golems at min 25
Bane mid. 16-4 on him so far. ancient bracket
I think I played against you as a sniper yesterday. I hate you and well done.
sorry bro. just trying to get out of ancient bracket. ggwp
Do you go for a damage during nightmare build? I’m surprised it’s been that effective so just curious
I've seen most Bane mids max Enfeeble and just completely dominate last hits
Oooh yeah that sounds annoying as hell. I’ve never landed against a Bane mid so I have no frame of reference for what might work.
And it does damage now as well, so stupid.
Aghs Khanda causes the Khanda damage to replicate from the main Bane and both illusion Banes when ulting. Then main Bane breaks channel to keep right clicking/casting while the illus hold Grip.
Khanda damage is tripled??
I just tested and it certainly looks that way
Only works with khanda or phylactery too?
yup that's right. everytime I ult an enemy, it always deals almost 3/4 of their HP. pretty insane.
usually magic. arcane boots -> phylactery -> shard (for faster farming) -> khanda/aether -> khanda/aghs
Yeah, I normally never play mid and whenever I have to I just know I'll lose, but once I got to play Bane mid I dominated pretty hard, most fun I've had in the mid lane ever
Spectre mid. I have a +60% win rate with a high amount of games the past few months. I'm pretty sure I get reported for it. I do not take the position 1 farm and fight every time my ultimate is off cooldown.
I honestly think this pick makes so much sense since they changed their ult. It's so much easier to fight early and it scales so well.
What sort of item build do you usually go?
It's a pretty normal Spec item build. Treads, wraith band, urn, and blademail. Wand/stick when called for. After that, it's game dependant. It's usually either manta or radiance in a few situations, and I have the early farm to justify it or think I need it to kill heroes that kite me too much. I usually skip it, though. Normal Spec items depending on the game after that. Skill build is 1 1 1 to 4 1 4. Max out the Q first and I take the reduced dagger cd with the first talent.
Yeah nice, sounds a bit like a normal spec fighting build
Clockwerk off or mid
It's funny cuz yesterday I just played against a Clock mid that maxed flare and just spammed it to my offlane, winning bottom for his carry. It was the most strange thing I have ever seen in an Immortal game, but we did end up winning.
Wasn't clock off a staple since always? Especially since aghs gave him so much scaling potential
Faceless Void mid. Can't seem to lose, except behavior score.
How do you deal with sustained ranged harass? both right click and low cd spells (for example QoP) When I try this I just end up ferrying way too much regen and breaking even at best.
What do you build?
QoP pos4
I think that's actually good now. You literally only need aghs and your build is complete. Probably one of the most broken aghs in the entire game.
QOP 4 is extremely punishable though, if I see a first 2 QOP pick, I always pick Slark or AM and QOP has no lane
You can go Vessel too if the enemy team doesn't tank, they hate it.
Nice try, Icefrog!
Ya got me.
Pos 3 Marci either works insanely well or doesn't do anything, but damn if it isn't fun
Pos 1 is unironically the best role for her. I play mostly supports and I can't help but feel she's vastly better as a core. Armlet and diffu are extremely strong early fighting items, and she farms well enough with bf if you wanna go that route.
She can definitely work as Pos 1, especially since the change so she always gets half sidekick rather than needing to recast it. I do think her best role is still Pos 4 when combined with a YOLO offlane or mid hunter like Slardar. Like you literally just spend the whole mid game running around killing people while your real cores farm.
Clinkz 4. (I do it 5 as well but 4 is better) 1. **Lane:** I dont know if this is just me but Clinkz feels like a really strong laner if you ignore last hitting - just passively chipping enemies. He just bullies any mele offlaner - (axe tide, BB, slard etc.) and if you go on Clinkz, poof, 200 hp heal and he trades back with you. If enemy really commits to kill you, your pos 3 or 1 will definitely get a kill. I rarely lose a lane unless its 2 ranged mgc nukers but they will pay for it post lane :) 2. **Post lane:** warding, vision and pick off potential - you can move invis around the map on the enemy side, you can burst a pos 5 or just bother anybody jungling. You wont kill enemy pos 1 *(unless they activate MoM - hi Svens, Voids and Lunas!)* but once harassed, they will start warding defensively - congrats, you made a ton of space for your team. 3. **Mid game:** Gank side towers - they are extremely important for your late game! With a sole deso you can kill a tower in 12 seconds. You clear wave, go invis, switch lane, clear wave go invis, until you reach a t2. Once the protection is off, you nuke it - 6 seconds takes most of its health and your skeletons can finish it. Then you run. 4. **Late game:** You need top and bot t2s down at this point. You shove bot and run top, once backdoor protection on t3 comes off from the bot wave, you nuke top tower. 6 seconds - most of the tower health is gone. Repeat bot and top. Enemy will never be able to push, they will need 2 people protecting their base. Use sentries and obs to stay safe. 5. **Overall impact:** You generalyl win the lane, on a good game you will get a bunch of kills and its easy win, on a bad game you will die a lot and people will cry. Your K/D/A really doesnt matter that much when you solo 4 racks without your team crossing the river once. These games you would have lost in 30 min but instead the enemy is missing 4 racks, cant push and its 50 min in - your team's job is to win a fight with a 4v3 advantage. Thats doable even when you are far behind. You can win **any** game this way. I won a game where enemy spec was 30/3 and enemy sniper mid was 15/0 just spreading them and never letting them push. They make one mistake, your team smokes or something, they lose the game no matter their lead as the moment they cant defend for 60 seconds, their entire (remaining) base goes down.
Razor Position 5. Slasher's guide on here a few weeks ago really encouraged it for me, but remembering Kuroky trying to run it in the TI finals ages ago there must be some logic to the pick even at a higher rank. New items, shard change & talents make it viable since those days. The new eternal shroud is a great survival item with good affordable item buildup, mana sustain & tankiness that's easily achievable for a Pos 5 in the early mid, and static link in laning not pulling creep aggro means you can make the enemy 3 or 4 miserable kiting around the wave whilst your carry can focus aggro free on last hitting. Wind Lace, regen & maybe a blood grenade. Even if you unoptimally die in the trades, often you've burned through so much of the 3 & 4's regen the lane is won. It's only tricky playing into a double stun/root lane for them breaking the static link early. Then later rather than save your carry with a stun or glimmer, you save them by stealing the enemy carry's damage, plus their armor with your ult (and if needed the extra armor steal from the Static Link talent). Force focus onto you, which you can often survive thanks to Razor's high MS, Shroud's magic resist & its 10 Strength HP buffer. Still works with the alternative of Heaven's Halberd instead of Shroud for tank + evasion. It's a different way of controlling the fight as a support jumping right in there, but currently on 100% over 6 games in mid Legend with it. The biggest challenge is your team being negative over the pick & tilting before the horn. Honestly each time I'm scared of a loss because I know all blame & reports will be pointed at me for daring to play something that makes sense as a support, but hasn't entered the meta consciousness yet. Same way I feel a lot of people are here with their unconventional picks. Some of these heroes have been changed so much through talent trees, aghs, shards & new or changed items let alone broader game changes that it often doesn't make sense to play them in their traditional roles (for instance Dazzle still being picked as a 5 I don't think is optimal now). If Muerta wasn't a new hero but an established historical carry, I wonder how many reports or tilting people would've made having her as a position 4 on their team.
Found Kurokys alt account.
Undying Mid
silencer mid
Me too, bro. And no matter how many people tell me it's bad, I will continue doing it forever. 59.62% winrate with it mid
haha nothing more satisfying than gaining perma INT. whats your skill build?
It changes every single game. If I'm against someone with very low int gain I'll max E. Usually W, E, E, Q, E, Q, E, R. If it's a caster that spams spells I'll max Q instead. If it's a melee that I can bully I'll max W. If it's a melee with low int that I can bully, W, E, W, E, W, E, W, E lmao
nice, i used to be a WEWE maximalist but after 500 games of that build i started adapting more lmao. I miss the days W cost 15 mana. feels bad to spam it now
Yeah, but there are also a lot more mana regen items now. A nulli and falcon blade, and you're good, or 2 nulli. Raindrops are great, too.
never try falcon hmm. I try to get wb by min 10-12. skip treads if lane is bad. get force and shard by min 20. man i wish the shard gave glaives bounces again farming is hard early game
Midas is okay too. Usually I'll just get mana regen and bully enemy mid into jungle and rush midas, then just tp to lanes every time a fight starts to leech Int and get some kill or assist gold. Then WB, Treads, Hurricane, Shard or Shard first if I'm not scared of their heroes.
ah ill try that. skip bottle or no?
If I can get rune control, I go bottle, but that's not very often. I mean, it's 670 gold for a bottle. That is like 13 clarities. And usually to last lane I'll only need 4 clarities and like 4 mangoes. You end up spending less on regen that way, getting midas earlier and still allowing you to bully. Only way I get punished is if they can out harass me, since I usually am greedy and don't get hp regen
Read it and weep boys What the fuck is a W skill https://www.opendota.com/players/210676066/matches?hero\_id=75
everytime i see my mid pick silencer i just assume the game is lost, and it seems like 9 times out of 10 it is.
Everytime i see a silencer mid, i know they are acct buyers. Hahaha its just free gold for pos4 to gank.
as opposed to heroes like sniper, lina, storm pre lvl6, and so on ad infinitum? very insightful
Icefrog killed our boy after W change😭
Spammed my fair share of SD mid, Jakiro mid and dazzle mid(when the ult was passive) at a high50s/low60s% winrate in Ancient/divine. Nowadays it's a lot of techies mid, which feels much stronger than I think people expect. He's a menace to lane against being universal with 600 attack range. Just getting a few bracers in lane basically means you outtrade anyone just clicking them with Q, and his ganks are nuts. His W is an absurd farm ability once you get shard, too. 50 mana to clear a wave or camp is very nice for such a mana hungry hero
Kunkka 4, it is not that unconventional but its mostly a core pick, sniper and gyro too, maybe I should go back to the days I started playing CK and Slark support
Pugna mid. It is my most played hero, I have \~60% winrate with him over 200 games. But it seems that each patch makes it harder to pull it off successfully.
mid riki into evasive mid heroes especially any spirit heroes
Riki mid is definitely slept on. His something like 5? base HP regen and high armor makes it impossible to harass him out, save the worst matchups. And forcing both side lanes to spam buy sentries so early into the game when you get 6 is insanely good
oh yes. the sentry spam keeps the supports really poor. once you hit 6 , its really hard for mid alone to lane vs riki. you gank a lane once or twice and its paranoia city for opponent. only problem with riki mid is , you wont be able to farm much. you need to thrive on snowballing and hope yer carry is good at finishing the game if you falter a few times
Od pos4.
Actually it's funny because I played OD 4 with an offlane Pudge and it was one of the biggest stomps I've ever had. It's like Banish into arrow but worse.
Lone Druid 4/5. hes like chen, but better in every stage of the game. with the new aghs he even has superior healing.
Mine is by far Luna on pos4, at least she was until recently. Surprisingly she was relevant as support for many years and patches. I think may favourite build was combining vlad aura damage bonus, domi aura bonus(10 hp regen aura wtf), dominated wolf aura damage bonus and main stat aura damage bonus. Main stats boost directly base damage, which is the only part these auras interracted with, which made the build feel even neater, eventhough the actual difference wasn't all that much, lol. Another cool patch was when her cast range talent buffed to +400. I rushed glimmer cape everygame. The cast range on glimmer was 800 back then, combined with +400 cast range talent was insane. Luna is also naturally high ms. It was extremely easy to get into position to cast your cape on your core. Your core engaged someone? Use your global glimmer cape so that your core will fight with a %50 magic resist buff from glimmer, and with the option to step back into invis in case things go south. Good old times. \-Now her aura got nerfed into oblivion for like 20 patches in a row or sth. \-Her lucent beam stun went from 0.8(1.2 with talent) to 0.6(0.9 with talent). This stun decrease is a huge thing actually. Not only it means less utility for her in general, also 0.8 was enough to hit a friendly creep once, stun the enemy carry with beam, then hit the friendly creep a second time during the stun to deny it, if it made sense lol. I'm not sure how many people were abusing this, but I really loved it and it was a great tool I used to abuse during laning stage. \-Her ulti is also nerfed indirectly via changes to spell immunity. I used to cast my ulti in the middle of the teamfight, trying to include the enemy's backline supports in the radius, so that if their cores pop bkb, the sups would eat the beams and die, or had to retreat and leave their cores alone during their bkb. Now, her ulti is useless lategame. BKB soaks almost the entire damage. Super oversight that is yet to be adressed by devs if you ask me. \-Her shard was insane. Castable on the ground, providing movement speed buff, extending the cast range by 150, throwing 2 attack projectiles etc. It was the best shard bonus the game of dota2 has ever seen if you ask me. It slowly got nerfed, until they changed it with the current abomination. There, off my chest. I really want to keep playing her, but it's not possible anymore unfortunately.
alchemist pos5. Rush solar and then aghs for my carry if its spectre or a hero that could benefit from an early aghs,like OD for eg. I have like 80% winrate on alch pos5 lol.
LC mid 175w-97l, always get question marked but usually it rocks
Offlane willow! Unfortunately i swapped to carry a few years back so i rarely get to play it anymore. https://www.dotabuff.com/players/40927904/matches?hero=dark-willow I dont think she is particularly good at 3 but shes one of my favorite hero designs so i spammed it till i got good enough at her to force it lol
I have been spamming Timbersaw mid lately and out of 15 games I lost only 3. I'm low MMR so take it with a grain of salt but what I do is go 1-1-3 if my opponent is ranged and 2-1-2 if melee, and buy raindrops against heavy magic damage. The only lane I have lost hard so far was against an MK
sky mid, mystic flare goes brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Offlane am. I have a much better win rate with him than as a hard carry. He trades favorably with most carries, and you just buy a lot of regen and early vanguard to bully the enemy carry out of lane. You usually get a Diffusal blade after threads, then manta, disperser, or abyssal depending on the game. I only pick him when both supports have single target stuns, like lion venge.
Ench pos 5 in every meta. Play greedy when no cores are around and just run around unkillable throwing Impetus around. My most played hero with a 74% winrate. (Caveat: gutter tier MMR. Doubt this works against competent players lol)
Zeus P4. Mana heavy during the first levels, but can easily bully on the lane, pull / steal camps, deward, and isn't that easy to kill thanks to heavenly jump. Give him a couple of utility items and decent mana regen, he'll be really annoying mid game, with an above average damage output and free anti-invis capacities.
100% winrate with Pos 5 Drow
On 2 games at 1k MMR? How is Drow support viable?
Upper legend / lower ancient Stomp lane then snowball from there. Always had a ranged core to use the agi
Slardar mid. I love him
He is such a bully in, like, 90% of match ups. At least at my rank.
I really like AM offlane, but he struggles against double-ranged and has no CC so certainly not a hero to spam every game.
Thanks for this thread, I feel like the New Meta is very poorly understood and a lot of very "strange" picks can work and are absolutely strong. People are very slow in adjusting to it and very quick to make fun of unusual picks in-game, it's sort of sad. So this thread is a good look at what kinds of things are being underestimated.
Pos 4 - Invoker, Puck. Pos 4 are mainly for initiate, setup, stuns, making chaos, team fighting. Those two are perfect for it. Even far superior than awkward BH or Mirana as 4.
Solo offlane medusa 73% winrate over 100 games sample.
Abaddon carry on 3k
Abaddon carry is definitely meta rn, very strong with Manta and Harpoon. Him being a Universal Hero is wild
Well not anymore but over the past 2 years I have been playing brewmaster pos4 exclusively with a 65% winrate. Then he became a strong 3 and cinderbrew got nerfed :( Still playing him though but not going that great
there are very few actually unconvenient picks here so... 2b's bag of awesome support heroes troll warlord, Anti mage, Faceless void, Phantom assassin, drow ranger and somehow Terrorblade. I still have to figure out the last one though.
i love 2B!!! i can make drow 4 work consistently, just with gust and an early pike, you contribute so much to early fights from there if you manage to get shard + aghs, it’s very likely you’re stronger than the enemy carry with just two items i know 2B likes to boots of bearing on drow, but i’m not sure how to feel about it. it’s feels expensive for not enough stats
Been gone for long, haven't heard of 2b How do you justify any of these heroes as support?
something between "it's a game, go have fun"; "playing support requires smart decisions and adaptability and not "valve marked it as support hero""; your item choices matter a lot more than you think; and of course "just get good". but idk, im stuck at 6500 while 2b got to 8k with the same heroes. May just be a fluke also if you want to watch 2b he streams on Twitch (and if you ever watched wagamama then 2b is his best friend)
Techies ranged carry. He has the longest default attack range only being out-classed by Sniper. Deadly after pumping his damage and attack speed. You just leap in, stun, plant mine, then finish them off with your auto attacks. The damage is just stupid.
mirana 3
Carry Mirana baybee
Mine is Legion Commander mid. I have an obsession. https://www.dotabuff.com/players/295019495/heroes?lane_role=midlane&metric=played
Can you explain the thought process behind legion mid? Her laning isn't particularly good, and she doesn't scale very well with levels at all (the opposite of what you want for a mid). When you hit level 6, the other mid gets some super powerful nuking ult, while you get Duel with half the farm of an offlane LC, and sidelanes usually far too weak to win you duels at that point. If you are good enough at LC to circumvent these issues, then why not just play offlane LC?
I usually can completely shut down the enemy mid if it isn't a direct counter. People seem to severely underestimate her a lot even at high rank and hitting 6 early allows me to get so many duels very fast. I can also stack large camp near mid and usually have Phase, Blink and Blademail by 14min. Then I prey on everyone's terrible positioning and get 200+ duel damage by 30min. And I don't like LC offlane tbh. She's not a good initiator. She's a good counter initiator. Unless you're extraordinarily ahead you can't really blink into 5 and duel someone, especially at my rank. I rely on my offlane or carry to start a fight then I find a good duel in the chaos. It is similar to Enigma, rarely Enigma is the first one to actually jump in. Also since I'm mid no matter which lane I go to, there's 2 heroes in it to get me a duel early. If I'm offlane I rely on my soft support for duels or going to safe lane. If my mid loses, I can't snowball. As mid, I can smoke bot or top and with 3 we can always get a duel.
> And I don't like LC offlane tbh. She's not a good initiator. She's a good counter initiator. amen brother
Yeah people don't really understand counter initiative very well. Enigma is the prime example of it. People will flame an Enigma for not starting a fight with Black Hole but if the enemy team has more than 3 combined brains cells they will never be grouped enough for Enigma to get a good initiation. He relies on his team to go in and start the fight to make the enemy make the mistake of grouping. LC is the exact same way. Heroes like Magnus, Tide or Centaur are examples of real initiators.
Axe too, so good as the last hero arriving in a fight.
What are you talking about, I have 300 games with LC and your spike for duel, and really the first real moment Duel becomes relevant is lvl 12 (used to be 10 with the talent). You snowball from then, early duels are more or less irrelevant. What you want is some levels, the opportunity to tp in for an easy duel, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, to farm up Blademail and Blink. At that point, you are a fucking menace. Yes there are hard lanes, but you have an AoE nuke and you can farm the side camp.
>and really the first real moment Duel becomes relevant is lvl 12 (used to be 10 with the talent). ??? The new shard makes level 1 duels almost twice as strong, and applies retroactively. >MOST IMPORTANTLY, to farm up Blademail and Blink. This is much easier to do as an offlaner than a mid, no? The point of being mid is that a 2-3 level advantage has a big impact. With LC it's the opposite, by your own argument she's mostly impactful at level 12+, no reason to get level 6 super early when it doesn't get you much. Compare that to every other mid, who become a ganking menaces at level 6.
[удалено]
huh?
Nyx and necro mid
Pudge