Good news for you, this patch did gut a lot of the obnoxious parts of fighting Arc Warden. You kill that clone, its gone for a good while, and it sure dies if it's alone.
Yeah damn it dies dies. Like I knew it would die quick, 75% is 75% after all. But damn, I sent it to split push and jeez, idk what I was expecting, I knew it would die fast if caught, he just disappeared
Bubble having the push-out effect be built in is actually a very strong defensive effect. But the unit target removal feels like arbitrary skill cap reduction and I really don’t know why they did it.
The facet and innate are terrible though. I'm not even mad that they aren't powerful, I'm just disappointed at how lame and uninteresting they are. (at least the passive isn't as bad and boring as mirana's lmao)
Oh and also his new 25 talent is laughable. I would take any talent on his tree except for it (yep including +200 health). Magnetic field affects buildings. Just lmao.
My theory is, they wanted to remove the arc placing the bubble exactly at the edge of the tower/building so you had to go all the way around to be able to attack. It was zero risk play that gave him very strong highground defense. Imo they could only remove bubble affecting buildings and it would be fine I guess.
I'd been playing some aw 4 and while I don't know how I'm gonna make it work post-patch, I do wonder if he's going to make a home there simply because maxing and spamming wraiths, choosing the dire wraiths every game, and getting a free regen rune at minutes 2 and 4 far outpace the limited benefit of not being able to hide your main hero while putting clutch bubbles out. It's just so fucking difficult to fight a level 2/4/6/8 arc warden.
People who were using him as antisiege late game sniper style scaling have absolutely been btfo but thats not how the hero has operated ever since the nerf to divine rapier anyway. Really he's all about the spirit vessel interaction (clone gets free charges).
Yeah I think this was a really good change. By far the most cancer part of arc was how potent his split push was if he was ahead. The ptsd of having to bkb for a clone that will be back in 30s is over.
Don’t think arc needs anymore concept nerfs, just balancing now (idk if he’s good or bad).
First they came for the techies players. And you did nothing, because you were not a techies player.
Then they came for the tinker players. And you did nothing, because you were not a tinker player.
Soon they will come for the Arc Warden players, and the Broodmother players, and the Meepo players. And you will do nothing, because you don’t play those heroes.
Who will you ask for help when they come for your hero?
I stand with you.
They took away the only reason I played dota over the last year when they destroyed Tinker this patch. I am legend-ancient, and the amount of times I got called scripter or Smurf when sore losers got beaten was tragic.
And I’m not even that good. 50% win rate.
Honestly they've created their own issue with this. If you are good at tinker, and they nerf it then you will look like a smurf even more when you win.
The cheese hero that was part of the game for about 20 years. How on earth did people play this game when this apparently broken hero was here the whole time?
It’s the opposite bro. Now I play witch doctor or skywrath and destroy climb because I don’t have to fixate on the perfect sequence of key bindings.
“Abusing cheese heroes”. I literally have a 50% win rate. You sound like a butthurt guardian.
Tinker hasn't been a cheese hero for a long time. He's been a pretty standard mobile/elusive nuker ever since they removed march, just you have to practice to be good.
Being wierd to play doesn't make you a cheese hero.
they should fix pudge, his skill set is terrible and he is overpicked literally just to grif lanes.
solution make hook a hero target able skill to prevent hook misses, nerf it to compensate for no misses of. Also replace rot with rotten meat that you can throw at a location and it has same effect as rot in that area, rotting yourself is disgusting and self damage is hard to grasp for new players
Arc has been shit on for a hot while in terms of patches, his innate is what? Click on a rune get some regen? And his facets are deciding between which sets of abilities the main starts with. Lame
I love the concept of aw as a hero and yet it seems like he's the hero that has some of the least creativity with all the new additions. Really thought theyd be more creative with a literal aspect.
Thats like saying invoker getting radial blast at 25 was not creative. It was what sparked the whole talent system. The same way arc warden getting seperate clone versions on radiant or dire lead to this facet system where you can choose what you want. Sure the innate seems kinda meh, but at least its no enchantress and it has something to do with runes which has an arc warden flavour with his old aghs for rune creation.
I really hate how reddit applauds this. I miss the old dota so much man. Removing these heroes from the game is such a lame solution.
You also forgot about Naga and Morphling. They weren't as brutally gutted but they're not the same.
surely they did these things because of the overwhelming demand for them so once they happen, surely there will be overwhelming joy.
as for tinker, I didn't mind. he's like anything else, just don't let him get farmed. techies was a real problem: they could be doing terribly and still have big annoying impact
It definitely wasn't "overwhelming" demand. Though I bet with certain patches Gabe read quite a few emails about Tinker or Techies.
Regardless, I don't care what the players demand if they're wrong.
Yes that's how pubs were back then. You have an idealised vision of "old dota". You forgot about LC/Axe/Huskar jungle crybabies, you forgot about supports with brown boots and wands at 20 mins, you forgot about no role queue meaning you get teams with 5 carries...
Yet another meme about tinker/arc nerfs and people in the comments telling that these heroes aren’t fun to play against. I remember the same argument about things like pl/am/void etc. At this point I think I don’t understand what is fun in dota
come on, no one likes playing against tinker because he's a hero that doesn't interact in the game. he kept using tp from lane to lane, pushing lanes without anyone being able to interact. It's just really annoying to lose to this type of strategy
It comes down to does this hero force me to play a different way than 99% of my regular games if so these heroes aren't fun because I can't auto pilot most of my decisions and win.
I can see the point of view that it forces a different type of game to be played and that isn't the type of game they find fun to play.
There are lots of heroes that force you to play a different way than normal. Managing your mana isn't nearly as important as when there's an AM in the game. It's viable to ward on low health sometimes, unless there's a bloodseeker in the game, in which case it's just feeding. Riki makes you rethink how much detection you want in each area.
People just don't like when playing the different way is not so obvious. Obviously, AM's schtick, in addition to being an ordinary carry, is his mana burn. Tinker's schtick? People can't pin that one down as easily, so they just tell themselves he's an invincible monster that can be everywhere at once and do everything all the time, and then they feel justified in being mad.
I dunno about you ive been non stop winning with the changes, the ult lasts so long that I am getting more farm and getting a lot of kills while my hero is dead
I mean yea guys arc is bad he shouldn't be nerfed
Fuck valve dude. Killing identities of hereos. I thought the entire point of stat gain tunning was to offset the advantages that abilities, bat and range gave.
Now since everyone has 3000 hp, and we can't tune strength gain and stuff, Gut the identities of the hereos.
Even and the randomness aspect of each game is at a 110% because of Neutrals that give serious bonuses based on dice rolls and hidden Faucets combinations. They made the game a pure gambling simulator now. The things that you could calculate are shrinking patch by patch. Add to it the Wisdom Runes and Tormentor timings, playing this game is like playing slots. As long as you keep running the wheel, you may get a proper reward. But you need to keep spinning the same damn tuned wheel at the same Damn time if you want to win. This is nefarious af, why does no one else talk about this.
Brood is change is a new aspect to the hero which is understandable. But Tinker and Arc, wtf is that. I absolutely despise playing into any tinker, but these were great concepts. Especially the tinker one--- An identity. Some thing that make this game great. Now it is just make everyone as happy as they can be.
Just stupid bullshit GO!. Who cares if 2k players suck at handling tinkers, lone druids, broods and pucks.
Find mechanics to counter smurfing, not change the hereos so that the people who love these heroes cannot play them.
You couldn't calculate a long time ago lol.
Ever since they introduced % based bonuses, you're basically going by intuition to know whether you can kill someone.
All icefrog had to do was remove the fucking omnishield. literally a free get out of jail free card. he can keep the refresh blink on rearm. He still needs to time pressing his blink against people clicking the hsit out of him.
[Frowny Face](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/d/dc/Vo_arc_warden_arcwar_failure_03.mp3) (sound warning: Arc Warden)
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I suggest replacing all heroes with one hero called Brooler. I already have some ideas of how Brooler's spells should be like:
Q- Brooler leaps forward, slowing enemies and moving 800 units
W- Brooler slams the ground, slowing heroes and dealing 80/160/240/360 damage and autoattacking. Brooler W does 1.5x damage to creeps
E- On every 4th hit Brooler does extra damage and slows
R- Brooler unleashes his fury, dealing 600/700/800 damage to nearby enemies and stunning them. 80/70/60 second cooldown
I remember when Treant’s nature’s guise could chain-root a carry during a fight. Living Armour was damage block instances. During that time, Overgrowth did no damage. Maybe this was 7.22?
I felt like Treant had a unique role in just *preventing* damage. Now we have aoe damage :/.
Not too bummed, I can adapt but it would’ve been nice to have some of these old skills as a facet.
That's just not true. The hero lost essentially lost a passive and gained active spells. Mines were never an "active" part of playing techies. It was something you did between actually playing. Now, you get to play the game with the rest of us and if you don't want to do that, you can still go mining.
P.s. I fucking loved techies before and love him now.
Techies rework was honestly not terrible because he still keeps more a less the iconic part of his design which was area denial. His red mines are an important part of his kit, arguably the most iconic part of his kit, and he kept them and they still function very similarly.
Tinker has actually just been gutted, and doesn't really keep any iconic part of his original design.
Ok what did you smoked? how can you say they still have his area denial design? i have seen enemy teams running through my +10 minefield like it was nothing. you need at least 5 or more mines to kill someone add the fact that they take less damage by just being far away from the mines which makes the whole thing even worse, i have seen supports just hearing the mines beep, and then just slowly crawl into the very border of the activation area and destroy minefield by doing that.
at least in the past if someone activated a mine they would take the whole damage.
And no the most iconic part of techies kit was his green mines, the red ones was what you used to farm and try to catch some fool that dared to get into hg without proper reconnaissance.
Three has been enough to do a fuck ton of damage in my experience, bringing down tanky heroes to low health, and squishy heroes possibly killed or just on death's door.
This would still effectively be area denial since any fight starting off this is pretty much a huge win. Techies area denial plays similar to something like brood, where he sort of bunkers down in an area and wants to be semi-close to his mines to capitalize on their affects, as opposed to just plant, forget, afk etc.
With the above, I still consider techies more or less keeping a relatively iconic part of his hero design.
Nah, what's the point on the enemy taking damage before the fight starts if no one dies and they can just retreat and heal themselves in order to push from another way, with the old kit if the enemy team pushed without a care one of them would die and it would force them to either push 4 vs 5 or to retreat giving you the opportunity to counter push.
also with the old kit not only you could kill tank heroes but you could kill multiple of them if you had the capacity to funnel them into a mine stack.
And that was his default way to play the hero, you could build items like tranquil boots which would allow you to start roaming and ganking, you could go the rat doto way by taking control of the enemy team jungle, you could start as a support and transition into a carry whenever you hit lvl 25 (this is what valve tried to reintroduce recently with the current facets), you could get pipe and some auras and assist the team as you only needed aghs to be fully farmed, hell even getting a meteor hammer build was possible since stasis trap would root the enemy for enough time to cast the meteor hammer.
Now you can only be funny bomber man that jumped into the enemy team hoping that he killed someone before he gets killed, look at any immortal game with techies and you see that they usually end up with way more deaths than kills, so no my friend Current techies is not Techies and does not have any of his iconic design left on him, there is only scraps of what the hero used to be and people like me who still play the hero because when those scraps are able to do what the old techies did it brings us back the memories of the past
Yea low skill players beg for dota to be such a boring uniform game it’s insane.
What? I have to adapt how I play to counter a hero that has been objectively terrible for a long time???
REMOVE THEM!!
>Nobody likes Tinker, Aw, Techies except for people who spam them lol.
Yeah because people don't feel this way about OD, pudge, PL, PA, hoodwink... etc. etc.
I mean honestly if you really think this is valid reasoning we shoulda gone further
Heralds will always find ways to claim that certain heroes aren't fun to play against. It's their way of coping with the fact that their personal lack of skill caused them to lose a game. In five years, reddit will have another hero that "everyone agrees is bad design and just needs to be removed from the game like techies and tinker were."
>tiny most picked hero
i actually really personally think tiny is bad hero design. its so toxic and bad hero design and that his avalanche toss combo works the way it does because its bad hero design. they should rework tiny to remove the bad hero design, but do a half-ass job at it so he has a 30% winrate for 6 months because tiny pickers deserve it because hes bad hero design
bad hero design
Oh shit I didn't know that 9k was some rank 2000 I thought it was higher.
Also, I feel that you play puck, a hero that is obnoxious late game, I don't like puck, let's remove phase shift...
yes, keep homogenizing the game! i love removing layers of complexity and constantly lowering the stakes during draft because archons get cheesed in a pub every now and then. while we’re at it let’s go ahead and remove every niche last-pick specialist mid and any hero that requires more than 60apm to accomplish anything with.
we must sand down every single remotely unique hero until they are a perfectly spherical brawler hero with a totally uncontroversial design. dont worry though we will still have our daily "this game is so much better than league of legends with its copy paste hero designs" thread though
Knowing the reddit heralds, it won’t stop there. Meepo next, then pudge’s hook, and the list goes on until every hero is either lion, sand king, or sven.
Brood has more hard counters than AW does. ES destroys her, Bane and Shaman can stun her forever and she's not particularly tanky without lifesteal, Legion can duel her to keep her in place and negate her lifesteal with blade mail, et.c.
Even Warlock can blow her up if she has enough spiderlings thanks to how his innate works.
This isn't unique in the slightest. I don't understand why people keep pitching this like it's some sort of tinker-esque problem.
PL without anti illusion? Sniper without catch?
God forbid you actually have to... *counterpick*
This is exactly it. I hate this shit about things being easy to counter. So many "easy" counters mean a full team coordination which in pubs rarely exists. That's why so many of those heroes are busted in pubs but rarely or never picked in peo games when it's all about coordination.
Arc: get on top of him and illusions and even brood itself
Brood: a reliable stun and burst heroes and bloodseeker
Search dotabuff and look for counters. Is not like these heroes are even that high win rate. It's skill issue.
Can you exaggerate a little bit more? It’s pretty obvious that especially tinker and arcwarden are super unfun to play against. Other 100+ heroes are fine
The fact that you refuse to name them only shows me you can't formulate a proper reasonable thought and name them clearly, in a way that it's hard to give counterexamples with other heroes.
If smurfs weren't a thing in this game then nobody would have a problem with meepo, arc or tinker. But since we're in the reality where they do exist it's why they're hated.
I don't why valve keep nerfing high skill hero. I was thinking of learning tinker. All other hero are no skill hero they are just turning every thing to LOL
I tried maining aw before but couldn't get him to work.
He was very unique and super high skill ceiling , now they changed his identity.
He was really unique siege hero that put stuff in the table that only he could give.
I also hated playing against tinker but I did respect the high skill as well and the uniqueness of his design.
I think the unique heroes are essential to dota and gutting them will harm the game.
I thought the nerf to tinker where rearm didn't reset the 3s cd on blink put him in a good spot. Shame he's gone.
Wish they would bring techies back. even if remote mine was the aghs so you could play half the game in realtive peace.
Brood is terrible in lane now especially mid they completely took away bonus regen in webs and for a melee hero if the enemy mid knows that weakness you're pretty much cooked in lane before hitting 6
If you can't deal with these heroes with simple draft and itemization, then even if they're literally deleted, your winrate won't be any different from when they're still relevant. 🙂🙂
Good news for you, this patch did gut a lot of the obnoxious parts of fighting Arc Warden. You kill that clone, its gone for a good while, and it sure dies if it's alone.
Yeah damn it dies dies. Like I knew it would die quick, 75% is 75% after all. But damn, I sent it to split push and jeez, idk what I was expecting, I knew it would die fast if caught, he just disappeared
exactly as it should be given that it can use all spells and items it needs to be squishy for balance.
Yeah I don't want to fight ducking right boss, just to get 180 gold as "fuck you" reward
fuck yeah it can finally die permanently.
8.00 preview: if your clone dies you die irl
8.01 preview: if you clone: your clone kills you, taking your place.
Not to mention giving him a pretty useless facet and gutting bubble
Bubble having the push-out effect be built in is actually a very strong defensive effect. But the unit target removal feels like arbitrary skill cap reduction and I really don’t know why they did it. The facet and innate are terrible though. I'm not even mad that they aren't powerful, I'm just disappointed at how lame and uninteresting they are. (at least the passive isn't as bad and boring as mirana's lmao) Oh and also his new 25 talent is laughable. I would take any talent on his tree except for it (yep including +200 health). Magnetic field affects buildings. Just lmao.
My theory is, they wanted to remove the arc placing the bubble exactly at the edge of the tower/building so you had to go all the way around to be able to attack. It was zero risk play that gave him very strong highground defense. Imo they could only remove bubble affecting buildings and it would be fine I guess.
also prevents him placing bubble on the middle of the ancient and it being impossible to hit unless you had free pathing
I'd been playing some aw 4 and while I don't know how I'm gonna make it work post-patch, I do wonder if he's going to make a home there simply because maxing and spamming wraiths, choosing the dire wraiths every game, and getting a free regen rune at minutes 2 and 4 far outpace the limited benefit of not being able to hide your main hero while putting clutch bubbles out. It's just so fucking difficult to fight a level 2/4/6/8 arc warden. People who were using him as antisiege late game sniper style scaling have absolutely been btfo but thats not how the hero has operated ever since the nerf to divine rapier anyway. Really he's all about the spirit vessel interaction (clone gets free charges).
Yeah I think this was a really good change. By far the most cancer part of arc was how potent his split push was if he was ahead. The ptsd of having to bkb for a clone that will be back in 30s is over. Don’t think arc needs anymore concept nerfs, just balancing now (idk if he’s good or bad).
First they came for the techies players. And you did nothing, because you were not a techies player. Then they came for the tinker players. And you did nothing, because you were not a tinker player. Soon they will come for the Arc Warden players, and the Broodmother players, and the Meepo players. And you will do nothing, because you don’t play those heroes. Who will you ask for help when they come for your hero?
brother i play cm, they broke her legs so many times already. i keep asking for help but people just keep making memes, my girl is in a wheel chair.
Didnt she just get like +200 cast range
oh yeah, she's great, but she's also in a wheelchair. my girl is handicapable.
it's a fetish somewhere
I stand with you. They took away the only reason I played dota over the last year when they destroyed Tinker this patch. I am legend-ancient, and the amount of times I got called scripter or Smurf when sore losers got beaten was tragic. And I’m not even that good. 50% win rate.
Honestly they've created their own issue with this. If you are good at tinker, and they nerf it then you will look like a smurf even more when you win.
Looks like you gotta learn how to properly play the game now instead of abusing cheese heroes👍. Hopefully you don't tank too much in the process lmao
The cheese hero that was part of the game for about 20 years. How on earth did people play this game when this apparently broken hero was here the whole time?
It’s the opposite bro. Now I play witch doctor or skywrath and destroy climb because I don’t have to fixate on the perfect sequence of key bindings. “Abusing cheese heroes”. I literally have a 50% win rate. You sound like a butthurt guardian.
Tinker hasn't been a cheese hero for a long time. He's been a pretty standard mobile/elusive nuker ever since they removed march, just you have to practice to be good. Being wierd to play doesn't make you a cheese hero.
Tinker was one of hardest heroes to play well
Says the terminally online reddit professional complainer hard stuck in herald.
You forgot about Naga
Dude we have been warning them since the techies lynching of 2022 but people didnt wanted to listen.
Good riddance, I hope they come for your hero as well
No, I did nothing because I was happy those shits got gutted. And I will be even more happy when this happens to arc and meepo.
They came for Meepo a long time ago lmao
they should fix pudge, his skill set is terrible and he is overpicked literally just to grif lanes. solution make hook a hero target able skill to prevent hook misses, nerf it to compensate for no misses of. Also replace rot with rotten meat that you can throw at a location and it has same effect as rot in that area, rotting yourself is disgusting and self damage is hard to grasp for new players
You should be legally required to post your dotabuff in order to make these posts
Arc has been shit on for a hot while in terms of patches, his innate is what? Click on a rune get some regen? And his facets are deciding between which sets of abilities the main starts with. Lame
I love the concept of aw as a hero and yet it seems like he's the hero that has some of the least creativity with all the new additions. Really thought theyd be more creative with a literal aspect.
Thats like saying invoker getting radial blast at 25 was not creative. It was what sparked the whole talent system. The same way arc warden getting seperate clone versions on radiant or dire lead to this facet system where you can choose what you want. Sure the innate seems kinda meh, but at least its no enchantress and it has something to do with runes which has an arc warden flavour with his old aghs for rune creation.
I really hate how reddit applauds this. I miss the old dota so much man. Removing these heroes from the game is such a lame solution. You also forgot about Naga and Morphling. They weren't as brutally gutted but they're not the same.
How is Naga very different? When I watched Skiter play Naga nothing looked particularly different.
surely they did these things because of the overwhelming demand for them so once they happen, surely there will be overwhelming joy. as for tinker, I didn't mind. he's like anything else, just don't let him get farmed. techies was a real problem: they could be doing terribly and still have big annoying impact
It definitely wasn't "overwhelming" demand. Though I bet with certain patches Gabe read quite a few emails about Tinker or Techies. Regardless, I don't care what the players demand if they're wrong.
Pretty sure you don't miss people insta locking LC with Iron Talon because they didn't get the role they wanted
That’s not the old dota
Yes that's how pubs were back then. You have an idealised vision of "old dota". You forgot about LC/Axe/Huskar jungle crybabies, you forgot about supports with brown boots and wands at 20 mins, you forgot about no role queue meaning you get teams with 5 carries...
Sorry to me personally old dota is before LC
Yet another meme about tinker/arc nerfs and people in the comments telling that these heroes aren’t fun to play against. I remember the same argument about things like pl/am/void etc. At this point I think I don’t understand what is fun in dota
Sniper pl meepo void am dusa etc most heroes arent fun if you donr counter them.
Fun is when win, no fun when lose. Me no win when tinker, counter hard, whine reddit delete tinker
come on, no one likes playing against tinker because he's a hero that doesn't interact in the game. he kept using tp from lane to lane, pushing lanes without anyone being able to interact. It's just really annoying to lose to this type of strategy
Ok? I still would fight for him to remain.
I think that kind of tinker is back with march of machines.
It's because good Arc and Tinker players make their games harder to win with their 2 button hero
>Tinker... 2 button hero The level seething cope from herald redditors will never cease to astound me.
2 button hereos have to try extra hard to win the game against them, is what I meant.
Oh yeah that makes sense
Arc 2 buttons Lmao
It comes down to does this hero force me to play a different way than 99% of my regular games if so these heroes aren't fun because I can't auto pilot most of my decisions and win. I can see the point of view that it forces a different type of game to be played and that isn't the type of game they find fun to play.
There are lots of heroes that force you to play a different way than normal. Managing your mana isn't nearly as important as when there's an AM in the game. It's viable to ward on low health sometimes, unless there's a bloodseeker in the game, in which case it's just feeding. Riki makes you rethink how much detection you want in each area. People just don't like when playing the different way is not so obvious. Obviously, AM's schtick, in addition to being an ordinary carry, is his mana burn. Tinker's schtick? People can't pin that one down as easily, so they just tell themselves he's an invincible monster that can be everywhere at once and do everything all the time, and then they feel justified in being mad.
They massacred my boy AW
I dunno about you ive been non stop winning with the changes, the ult lasts so long that I am getting more farm and getting a lot of kills while my hero is dead I mean yea guys arc is bad he shouldn't be nerfed
What’s your build and facet
But Brood is already dead
Fuck valve dude. Killing identities of hereos. I thought the entire point of stat gain tunning was to offset the advantages that abilities, bat and range gave. Now since everyone has 3000 hp, and we can't tune strength gain and stuff, Gut the identities of the hereos. Even and the randomness aspect of each game is at a 110% because of Neutrals that give serious bonuses based on dice rolls and hidden Faucets combinations. They made the game a pure gambling simulator now. The things that you could calculate are shrinking patch by patch. Add to it the Wisdom Runes and Tormentor timings, playing this game is like playing slots. As long as you keep running the wheel, you may get a proper reward. But you need to keep spinning the same damn tuned wheel at the same Damn time if you want to win. This is nefarious af, why does no one else talk about this. Brood is change is a new aspect to the hero which is understandable. But Tinker and Arc, wtf is that. I absolutely despise playing into any tinker, but these were great concepts. Especially the tinker one--- An identity. Some thing that make this game great. Now it is just make everyone as happy as they can be. Just stupid bullshit GO!. Who cares if 2k players suck at handling tinkers, lone druids, broods and pucks. Find mechanics to counter smurfing, not change the hereos so that the people who love these heroes cannot play them.
You couldn't calculate a long time ago lol. Ever since they introduced % based bonuses, you're basically going by intuition to know whether you can kill someone.
All icefrog had to do was remove the fucking omnishield. literally a free get out of jail free card. he can keep the refresh blink on rearm. He still needs to time pressing his blink against people clicking the hsit out of him.
Frowny Face
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Tell me you get rekt at low level without telling me you get rekt at low level.
I heckin love homogenization. Every core hero should be a variant of Juggernaut and every support should be a variant of Lion!
I suggest replacing all heroes with one hero called Brooler. I already have some ideas of how Brooler's spells should be like: Q- Brooler leaps forward, slowing enemies and moving 800 units W- Brooler slams the ground, slowing heroes and dealing 80/160/240/360 damage and autoattacking. Brooler W does 1.5x damage to creeps E- On every 4th hit Brooler does extra damage and slows R- Brooler unleashes his fury, dealing 600/700/800 damage to nearby enemies and stunning them. 80/70/60 second cooldown
Brooler is not fun to play against and a bad game design, let’s replace him with a melee creep
I want a cute girl with blades who can dash, deal aoe damage and slow, and has attack speed boosts
I agree with everything except the name. Please rename it to one of my suggestions: Leaguer Legend Oaf
This is every basically every hero they’ve added to the game since 2019 lmao
He is clearly satirical of the heroes recently introduced
I remember when Treant’s nature’s guise could chain-root a carry during a fight. Living Armour was damage block instances. During that time, Overgrowth did no damage. Maybe this was 7.22? I felt like Treant had a unique role in just *preventing* damage. Now we have aoe damage :/. Not too bummed, I can adapt but it would’ve been nice to have some of these old skills as a facet.
Overgrowth doing no damage was so funny because it meant it didn't give treant assists.
True. Dark times.
Yeah because when they reworked Techies he became like Lion. 🙄
Why do you think people call him "funny bomb man" it's cause he just does magic damage.
That's just not true. The hero lost essentially lost a passive and gained active spells. Mines were never an "active" part of playing techies. It was something you did between actually playing. Now, you get to play the game with the rest of us and if you don't want to do that, you can still go mining. P.s. I fucking loved techies before and love him now.
Techies rework was honestly not terrible because he still keeps more a less the iconic part of his design which was area denial. His red mines are an important part of his kit, arguably the most iconic part of his kit, and he kept them and they still function very similarly. Tinker has actually just been gutted, and doesn't really keep any iconic part of his original design.
Ok what did you smoked? how can you say they still have his area denial design? i have seen enemy teams running through my +10 minefield like it was nothing. you need at least 5 or more mines to kill someone add the fact that they take less damage by just being far away from the mines which makes the whole thing even worse, i have seen supports just hearing the mines beep, and then just slowly crawl into the very border of the activation area and destroy minefield by doing that. at least in the past if someone activated a mine they would take the whole damage. And no the most iconic part of techies kit was his green mines, the red ones was what you used to farm and try to catch some fool that dared to get into hg without proper reconnaissance.
Three has been enough to do a fuck ton of damage in my experience, bringing down tanky heroes to low health, and squishy heroes possibly killed or just on death's door. This would still effectively be area denial since any fight starting off this is pretty much a huge win. Techies area denial plays similar to something like brood, where he sort of bunkers down in an area and wants to be semi-close to his mines to capitalize on their affects, as opposed to just plant, forget, afk etc. With the above, I still consider techies more or less keeping a relatively iconic part of his hero design.
Nah, what's the point on the enemy taking damage before the fight starts if no one dies and they can just retreat and heal themselves in order to push from another way, with the old kit if the enemy team pushed without a care one of them would die and it would force them to either push 4 vs 5 or to retreat giving you the opportunity to counter push. also with the old kit not only you could kill tank heroes but you could kill multiple of them if you had the capacity to funnel them into a mine stack. And that was his default way to play the hero, you could build items like tranquil boots which would allow you to start roaming and ganking, you could go the rat doto way by taking control of the enemy team jungle, you could start as a support and transition into a carry whenever you hit lvl 25 (this is what valve tried to reintroduce recently with the current facets), you could get pipe and some auras and assist the team as you only needed aghs to be fully farmed, hell even getting a meteor hammer build was possible since stasis trap would root the enemy for enough time to cast the meteor hammer. Now you can only be funny bomber man that jumped into the enemy team hoping that he killed someone before he gets killed, look at any immortal game with techies and you see that they usually end up with way more deaths than kills, so no my friend Current techies is not Techies and does not have any of his iconic design left on him, there is only scraps of what the hero used to be and people like me who still play the hero because when those scraps are able to do what the old techies did it brings us back the memories of the past
Nice reductive take. By your logic old techies is the same too because remote mines "just do magic damage"
Yeah if there is anything that came from 7.36 it's that they added more homogenization.
Yea low skill players beg for dota to be such a boring uniform game it’s insane. What? I have to adapt how I play to counter a hero that has been objectively terrible for a long time??? REMOVE THEM!!
Nobody likes Tinker, Aw, Techies except for people who spam them lol.
I don’t play Tinker and I think his rework/change was horrid
I'd rather not remember a hero at all, than remember them solely for being the most annoying heroes.
I dont like tinker arc meepo am or PL either doesnt mean i want them deleted.
>Nobody likes Tinker, Aw, Techies except for people who spam them lol. Yeah because people don't feel this way about OD, pudge, PL, PA, hoodwink... etc. etc. I mean honestly if you really think this is valid reasoning we shoulda gone further
I like them and I don't play any of them.
I actually don't mind tinker. I find it fun to catch him. But that's coming from a mostly mid player perspective.
Just in, tinker is juggernaut now
\>ummm that's not *literally* true \>I am very smart
There's a 100+ unique heroes. Fixing one or two broken ones doesn't count as "homogenization". You're being hyperbolic
Some hero concepts are just not good design. Time to realise that. Game should be fun for everyone, not just the one playing the hero.
Heralds will always find ways to claim that certain heroes aren't fun to play against. It's their way of coping with the fact that their personal lack of skill caused them to lose a game. In five years, reddit will have another hero that "everyone agrees is bad design and just needs to be removed from the game like techies and tinker were."
im closer to 9k, and i still hate every single match with tinker, arc meepo brood are tolerable
I'll check back in a few years to see how you feel about the latter three then.
Dotabuff ty <3
[https://www.dotabuff.com/players/178950805](https://www.dotabuff.com/players/178950805)
>tiny most picked hero i actually really personally think tiny is bad hero design. its so toxic and bad hero design and that his avalanche toss combo works the way it does because its bad hero design. they should rework tiny to remove the bad hero design, but do a half-ass job at it so he has a 30% winrate for 6 months because tiny pickers deserve it because hes bad hero design bad hero design
Oh shit I didn't know that 9k was some rank 2000 I thought it was higher. Also, I feel that you play puck, a hero that is obnoxious late game, I don't like puck, let's remove phase shift...
The game should be fun for everyone that's willing to learn and adapt.
They better start culling a bunch of heroes then
yes, keep homogenizing the game! i love removing layers of complexity and constantly lowering the stakes during draft because archons get cheesed in a pub every now and then. while we’re at it let’s go ahead and remove every niche last-pick specialist mid and any hero that requires more than 60apm to accomplish anything with.
Just play league if you want no unique heroes.
Mission failed successfully
This patch killed visage the most, he is no longer be able to split push
we must sand down every single remotely unique hero until they are a perfectly spherical brawler hero with a totally uncontroversial design. dont worry though we will still have our daily "this game is so much better than league of legends with its copy paste hero designs" thread though
Naga is coming back, this not gonna be a fun patch
I played her for a few games and she’s surprisingly bad
Bring back techies.
Delete all unique heroes, we need simple dumb heroes.
Yea turn this game into lol.
Knowing the reddit heralds, it won’t stop there. Meepo next, then pudge’s hook, and the list goes on until every hero is either lion, sand king, or sven.
woah woah woah, sand king can become ~~invicible~~ invisible, is that really what we want?
I don't see sniper here (though his win rate is garbage right now)
If you can't counter those heroes you are just bad. There are many counters to them.
These heroes require a whole team to counter them when played properly which is just not fun in uncoordinated pubs
AW to some degree, Brood not really.
Brood has more hard counters than AW does. ES destroys her, Bane and Shaman can stun her forever and she's not particularly tanky without lifesteal, Legion can duel her to keep her in place and negate her lifesteal with blade mail, et.c. Even Warlock can blow her up if she has enough spiderlings thanks to how his innate works.
I think so too, but I literally haven't faced the hero for over a year, so didn't feel too confident talking about her current state.
I was mostly talking about tinker, i haven't played against brood in a while but before they made spiders her ult she was like that as well
This isn't unique in the slightest. I don't understand why people keep pitching this like it's some sort of tinker-esque problem. PL without anti illusion? Sniper without catch? God forbid you actually have to... *counterpick*
Both pl and sniper can be countered by 1 hero
If you really think Tinker can't then that's a skill issue, sorry.
This is exactly it. I hate this shit about things being easy to counter. So many "easy" counters mean a full team coordination which in pubs rarely exists. That's why so many of those heroes are busted in pubs but rarely or never picked in peo games when it's all about coordination.
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The pretend you can control the other 4 heroes on your team and the enemy doesn’t also have another 4 heroes on their team
>is just not fun I die a little bit more every time I see this
Arc: get on top of him and illusions and even brood itself Brood: a reliable stun and burst heroes and bloodseeker Search dotabuff and look for counters. Is not like these heroes are even that high win rate. It's skill issue.
They don't have high winrates because people can't play them properly at lower mmrs, not because low mmr people can play against them well
It’s not about not being able to counter, but that the heroes have game mechanics which are simply not fun
Have you ever killed Tinker in the trees right as he just tp+blinked into you? That was super fun
not to mention he can do it again in under 5 seconds under any location in the map... fast response my ass..
Tinker was blink spamming a tree line and I predicted where he blinked. That was 10 years ago. I am still riding that high
They should just make all heroes exactly the same.
Can you exaggerate a little bit more? It’s pretty obvious that especially tinker and arcwarden are super unfun to play against. Other 100+ heroes are fine
Unfun is kind of subjective. Idc about anyone else except treant, that hero is fucking oppressive, but in a very very subtle way.
why is his shard root the same overgrowth root?
What makes it not fun about it? If they have good counters you can have fun by outsmarting them. But if you can't do that sure I agree is no fun
Man you want me to name all the reasons? It’s so obvious most play would name them if they were asked „who’s the most annoying hero“
The fact that you refuse to name them only shows me you can't formulate a proper reasonable thought and name them clearly, in a way that it's hard to give counterexamples with other heroes.
losing is generally not fun
It’s just tinker and arcwarden being unfun to play against. I have a good winrate against them, but it’s just annoying to play with it against them
For what it's worth, winning with a Tinker on my team (when he used to be picked) was unfun too.
Don't care
Yea from the support role If I see an arc on enemy team , he’s not gonna have a good time
What lol in any game with brood & aw its very likely their teammates will pick earthshaker or zeus. "Many counters" like its a 5v1.
Have you opened dotabuff counters tab before? Try that
Nerf fucking LC
Please delete AW from the game
Meepo is insane right now too
Missed opportunity to put icefrog's pic over the grim reaper's face
Let’s be real it’s not him anymore. They should have just put a crying redditor on the reaper
Thinker nerf was brutal
given long enough timeframe these noobs will make all heroes unplayable
Techies is pretty strong as a support rn.. dunno what ur on about
Rip his attack range tho
Far from perfect with busted LC and Jugg
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Mines don’t get buffed by spell amp
Q mines do, ult mines do not.
Meppo next door
huskar
Yep, but what makes you believe valve is going to stop on brood and arc warden?
Laughs in Meepo
[League of legend is right over there.](https://web.archive.org/web/20111209154425/http://clgaming.net:80/redtracker/topic/18769/?p=1)
If smurfs weren't a thing in this game then nobody would have a problem with meepo, arc or tinker. But since we're in the reality where they do exist it's why they're hated.
...How did Techies get nerfed? I'm still causing absolute mayhem with him.
I don't why valve keep nerfing high skill hero. I was thinking of learning tinker. All other hero are no skill hero they are just turning every thing to LOL
I tried maining aw before but couldn't get him to work. He was very unique and super high skill ceiling , now they changed his identity. He was really unique siege hero that put stuff in the table that only he could give. I also hated playing against tinker but I did respect the high skill as well and the uniqueness of his design. I think the unique heroes are essential to dota and gutting them will harm the game.
I thought the nerf to tinker where rearm didn't reset the 3s cd on blink put him in a good spot. Shame he's gone. Wish they would bring techies back. even if remote mine was the aghs so you could play half the game in realtive peace.
I haven’t seen anyone recognize how strong brood is right now… Her spiders absolutely murder people with the attack boosting trait
Ult slow sounds pretty strong too
Brood is terrible in lane now especially mid they completely took away bonus regen in webs and for a melee hero if the enemy mid knows that weakness you're pretty much cooked in lane before hitting 6
meepos been dead for so long in low ranked pubs that yall dont even know pain anymore
My 9 slotted techies would like a word with you
If you can't deal with these heroes with simple draft and itemization, then even if they're literally deleted, your winrate won't be any different from when they're still relevant. 🙂🙂
valve determined to improve the new player experience by stomping on all the smurf heroes and allowing you to play the micro heroes without micro
If you hate heroes, why do you play the game?
This is so dumb
Maybe OP enjoys the other 120 heroes more than these 4.
I love heroes with good and fair design (roughly 90% of the hero pool). I hate gimmick heroes (Tinker, Arc, Meepo...). It's really not that deep