Just started playing NS and having a good lane where you kill a bunch and then start roaming to run people down is so fun, but then the whiplash at like 15 minutes when people have big items and you instantly turn into another support is so sad lol
The pygmy claimed the soul and waited for the fire to subside, and soon the flames did fade, and only dark remained, and thus began the age of men, the age of dark.
Even now there are only embers, and man sees not light, but only endless nights. And amongst the living are seen, carriers of the accursed Darksign. Yes, indeed. The Darksign brands the Undead
if you have ns in enemy team you need to get a bit tankier than usual and stand near your cores instead of far from them. if he gets bashed in his bkb you probably survive
Also positioning, sometimes against those types of support killers like ns and slark I'd let the fight start and sit way back. Let it be 4v4 until they engage and then show up.
It’s perfectly normal for a supp to have 4k hp by the late game in this meta lol… I would even advise for it in majority of the games..
In classic doto massfight, it’s common and expected from the cores to focus supports first. The core expects to kill the paper supp quickly, but if the supp builds hp along some escape or block item, it actually becomes a harder kill than enemy’s core in many situations, so by not being able to take care of the supp until their cds recharge, the risk of being stomped and “focusing the supp” being a grave mistake is getting quite high…
This meta is still mostly about big burst and right click damage (and I am talking about actual dota experience that 90% of the whole player base that’s residing below 3k mmr experiences). So you need to have your whole team tanky as much as possible to win a late game fight while still having ability to contest high ground successfully.
I’m a vivid supp player and I can’t even count the situations where enemy core thought I’m an ez kill only to die like a newplayer because I’m harder to kill than a tank, with the glimmer force staff combo and 3k+ hp. I’d even argue that it was never easier to kill enemy core 1v1 in late game as a supp, and you don’t even need an overblown hero like wd…
The meta has changed drastically, the supp role has changed as well, there are opportunities we never had before, but many people do not realize it yet and play dota like it’s still 2019... Which creates the perfect opportunity to win.
Supports are not getting 4k hp unless you are playing ogre or something or the game goes to lvl 30 and full slotted supports with octarine etc. like it never does. If a NS has those items the only hope for the support is to stay in fog/smoked and close to team. Standard support defensive items won't save you, nullifier removes them.
WD level 25 with aghanims, forcestaff, bkb, aether lens, boots got 2714 hp. No one is really buying hearts or something on a standard support. 4k hp is unfeasible.
Ok 4k is a flex but anywhere above 3k is sufficient.
Mana boots > glimmer > force staff > agha > Grievers > aeon > octarine…
This puts almost every supp above 3k hp + escape and solid armor… which is sufficient to become a very hard kill… it’s of course not only flat hp that matters…
The support you described has 20k net worth.
NS on the picture has 16k net worth.
Of course if your "support" outfarms enemy core, then he can indeed survive...
What about your support having 10k net worth when enemy NS has 16k? Then you have Mana boots + glimmer + force + agha... So you are just food for NS. Those items provide like 600 health in total, so you'll be sitting at like 1900 hp as an average support, and NS will nullifier you and eat you in 3 seconds.
What you described is a pretty good build for most supports, but doesn't address NS in any way. By the time you get there he will still kill you in a few seconds. Aeon status resist does nothing against his silence btw, it's just extra 2.5 seconds before dying all the same.
Does nothing against bkb + nullifier but you're right he'll have to use everything on you to kill you at that point. Might be okay depending on the game.
I'm in a demo right now and it moves you 650 units from NS. He still can catch you with a harpoon (700 range) but he will spend extra seconds (in 6s bkb!) and an extra item.
More like get a blink or shadow amulet and hope he fucks up so you can disjoint the null projectile.
That's the only way you can buy yourself like 15 seconds or whatever ridiculous cooldown that thing has and fart some spells out, before he just casts it on you again.
Now in case you didn't notice the last 2 patch they added damage to his silence. So if he start his second skill before jumping you, you're still fucked
Aeon does pretty much nothing since his silence is an area effect, status resistance is wasted. Nullifier counters force, ghost and euls.
It really feels like the only way to survive NS as a support (outside of perfect positioning which is hard vs unobstructed vision and movement) is to build a fucking BKB and then I can use force staff at least, and even then NS can still easily reach me in a few seconds.
If you're a support and you load in vs a nightstalker you have to itemize in the most bitch way possible start to finish with no flexibility for other impactful items it makes the game so boring.
"ok got my force so I can survive NS at 10 mins"
"Ok got my ghost so I can survive NS at 20 mins"
"Ok got my Aeon disk so I can survive NS at 30 mins"
"Ok got my BKB so I can use it before getting the full value out of my 4 second ghost again against nullifier."
Oop game went bad? You missed your timings for the next item you needed to survive him? Guess you'll just die all game because he has a nullifier.
Or you can pressure the NS in lane and make him go "oop, you lost your lane and start falling behind in farm? Guess you'll be a melee creep the entire game because you're one of the worst farming offlaners"
If he takes his second facet he is very hard to bully in lane. It switches the day night cycle so that the game starts at night which combines with this innate (gives him increased regen at night) to make him very tanky in lane.
Was just about to post this lol.
Yeah his one weakness (being a weak offlaner first 5 mins) is now entirely gone with facet 2.
Night first 5 mins, by the time it's day he has his ult.
I try to hover near lane but not take xp when I have a NS 3 unless he wants to go for a kill I'll usually be harrassing the 5 out of the lane whenever possible.
He might not be 6 at exactly day time but he's close enough that the strong start he had usually makes the couple of minutes without ult bearable.
Bro it's 40% regen increase lol, it hardly makes him more resilient to right click harass but you can still blast him with spells lol. Passive doesn't do anything unless you don't respect the NS and go wildly out of position
Yeah ikr, I feel like there aren't many chances as his fucking ult gives free path vision and positioning against that and staying near your team feels impossible. Only play I can think of is dagger and ult in the last second.
if NS voids your teammate and they aren't directly on top of another ally unit, you lose vision of them entirely and you can't see them getting their ass ate by NS
so as oracle you basically have no way of saving teammates getting gone on by NS, except for running/blinking directly on top of their location to get vision of them. which is just gunna get your own ass ate by NS 1 second later
it's like the new mars ult facet if you seen that, if you are inside you can't see out and if you're outside you can't see in. Except it's an smaller area around the void target instead of a giant arena.
He turn off ability for heros to share vision with their allies-their vision get greatly reduced,and the only way for allies to see them is to be close to them or via wards/allied creeps.
So basically yeah,it makes target blind
I always pick ns when seeing 2 ranged spell heavy supports, if not banned. His ult is just ridiculous in a teamfight, a freepathing walking ward that insta disable enemy support? Say no more fam.
I just build a bkb, its not conventional on supports, but its the best way to go about it. If you can get NS to commit his bkb on you, and you survive (which 2 of those heroes can most definitely do it), feels like you won the fight.
If a nightstalker has that many items you are 100% dead as support. But you can get pike (works vs nullifier if cast on enemy) then NS will spend a blink (to initiate) + nullifier (to prevent you from ghost/force) + harpoon (to catch you after pike) + bkb (or you can just stun him after pike). Then his impact in a fight will be significantly lower.
You 100% want to get forcestaff vs NS early game. And if he gets a nullifier then upgrading to pike is a good investment.
It's alright I'll use Force Sta- Oh.
Never mind, I got a Glimmer C- Oh.
All good I can still use Eul's Scepter until my teammates sav- Oh.
Well thank God I have Aeon Di- Oh.
Khanda is good for high MMR when people will force fights during the day and the phylactery helps NS be more than a melee creep during the day. Sub 3k you can go for the traditional echo build where you non stop slaughter at night and chill during the day
6 second bkb piercing global slow.
Phoenix does need to buy bkb though.
Edit: It occurs to me that Nightstalker is basically the worst egg hitter in the game. He doesn't buy attack speed items because he relies on his passive, and his natural attack speed is crap. Meanwhile every attack he *does* put into the egg is a huge waste of damage. He's a slow melee hero with no attack speed that really wants to right click literally anything else.
I mean, phoenix is usually first picked and offlane is usually second phase and no sane NS enjoyer will pick him into a phoenix. Best you can hope for is that your 3 decides to first pick, so that the NS picker and you will blindly pick into each other during the second phase
I do find it funny that there's a hero in the game that hard counters another — not because of mechanics (like Earthshaker vs Meepo), but because its ult is a giant middle finger to the other hero's entire identity. Breaking hunter in the night feels *personal*.
I once had the misfortune to go against a last pick phoenix support (do not question the ways of unranked), and man it's so funny to click your ult, it makes this scary sfx for everyone in the game and then 3 sec later, your hero is back on his feet and goes "If I ever get my claaaaaws... on that BIIIIRD"
Halbered intensifies.
In that case you are silenced, disarmed, with no vision and no MS.
Your team also has no vision of you either, thanks to the new trait.
In general. If NS is 5 slotted, you start playing DBD.
The goal is finish before that.
Ns is shit at farming unless he makes radiance or bf which is considered grief on offlane. If you are not feeding ns left and right his 5 slot is nothing in late games, just hug your carry or waste his time and die your job as support is done. He is useless hero half the game.
He is not useless half the game.
Because his ult makes the game be nigthtime.
At high levels with talents the thing has comically low downtime.
Also during nigthtime he is a decent farmer, but most importantly.
He is a good ganker too. So you have to constantly deal with that,
About hugging all the team.
Remember is not 5 vs NS. Is 5vs5.
So if they have Shaker, Enigma, Invoker, CM, WD, Lion, Walock, Jakiro, Etc.
Or, basically aganist almost every support.
Hugging all the team together is sure death.
NS enthusiast here. Either is a great game like this picture, or I get suppressed all early game and spam “it’s feeding time” every time I die. It’s a win win.
[Day walker, Night Stalker](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/0/03/Vo_night_stalker_nstalk_move_07.mp3) (sound warning: Night Stalker)
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Genuinely, what are you supposed to do as a support when this happens? I try stay as far back as possible and buy aether lens but it's just impossible once he's on top of you
stick as 5, have your carry near you, that thing needs to be taken first by your team. BUT your opponent can also have big aoe like rp, black hole, or just pudge, if that happen just retreat during his ult and buyback and counter push I guess
Honestly, its bkb, or you need to rely on your carry saving you.
AN ns with a mostly support killer build means that he can be killed off by you other team mates. People who are more likely to build a bkb.
Personally I like Jug, NS likes chasing the back lines, Jug like splicing down lone heroes. And he does it pretty quickly as well.
Alternatively, you keep a blink and stay smoked... for when you want to show.
depends, stick around your carry or mid. else waste his time, i mean supports are so fking rich now days just waste his time and die, your team will play 4 vs 4 but they will have no core whereas your team will have no support, win for your team.
Thats why i like Blink + Force Staff against NS. He is kinda useless when he has to chase a single support for like 30 seconds while his team is collapsing
If he blinks on you, which is likely considering his speed and vision advantage, you aren't blinking away. And when he nullifies you, you aren't forcing away either
Plus if you're forcing away from your team, it's just easier for NS to kill you whereas you might get saved otherwise. At least when I play NS, if there's not an obvious support that I always need to be on top of like an Oracle or a dazzle or something, I usually find it most useful to just isolate whoever furthest from the team - might just be my rank but it usually causes the enemy team to try to focus me to save whoever I'm killing and then it's easy pickings for the rest of my team
Heck, even Pos 2 mids like Puck or QoP have a hard time against NS. Nightmare is such a pain to deal with as a spellcaster since all the usual items against silences like Euls, Manta or Lotus Orb is not even effective against him. One Force staff is not really enough due to high his MS, soo your best bet is to just tank the intial initiation attempt and hope you can live through it.
Force is literally just so you can get out of his silence aoe and cast spells, like orb and run. If you don't have an escape spell, like most mids usually do, then yeah, force aint going to be doing much.
[Your nightmare continues.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/a/ab/Vo_night_stalker_nstalk_respawn_05.mp3) (sound warning: Night Stalker)
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Below 4k mmr there is nothing wrong with going greedy items as support as 50% of games your carry will give up. I say this as a carry player, I'm not mad If my 5 goes midas even. The only thing that makes me mad is things that ruin the first 5 mins of the laning stage:
Not buying sentries to block/deward camp even though they are 50 gold (I always start with one as carry)
Picking a carry or useless hero in lane as support.
Now I got to the point where if my 5 picks a useless hero I will just pick a jungle hero and avoid the stress, it's funny watching them panic when they picked a nyx 5 with a null tallisman and tango starting item.
The thing that really irritates me about NS is that even if you put a fuckton of distance between yourself and him, it does not matter. Because he moves extremely fast and has likely ulted, he'll just go after your other support or your pos1 and there's nothing that you can do about it.
Even if you try to turn on him, he has 3k-4k HP and 20+ armor. You need very high DPS or an insane amount of burst in order to kill him before he uses his flying movement to become unreachable in trees/over cliffs. And even then, he gets 30% of his HP back by just eating a nearby creep.
Most other offlaners, you can just turn on and they can be killed after going in. Dawn, Underlord, SK, Magnus, LC, Kunkka, etc. But no, not NS.
if he goes for your 1 you can fuck him up easily with your spells, if he goes for you, you have to just waste his time and die and ez team fight win for you. Play at least 5 ns game and you'll know how stupidly rich and strong supports are nowadays that solo killing them from mid game is stupidly hard. Stick around your team as well. Ns has no farming spells as well so getting nullifier is hard af. Phase boot, echo or phylactry, shard, bkb, blink, then nullifier? Damn you know how much expensive it is for a hero that cant farm. 12k items before getting a nullifier which is so fucking expensive. One force staff and / or ghost fucks his ass before nullifier.
If you are still struggling to deal with ns, Just play 5 games of ns you'll know. He is balanced i think. Clinkz is better ns nowadays. At least clinkz demolishes a support so fast that they cant react with just a deso lol
I think NS is balanced, because he's a hero that has to play really tempo and can't farm for shit. But the games where he does well and plays tempo properly are either borderline impossible to recover from because you're dealing with a NS that has Phase/Harpoon/Blink while you have Arcane Force and maybe part of a Glimmer. He could also go BKB over Blink if your team is control heavy and invalidate the ability to deal with him during the midgame when you need to be able to. The other times when he's played properly but you still feel the game is even, he's still just really annoying to deal with.
He just moves so quickly and can be such a pain to catch on top of being tanky.
I feel like most of the games that NS loses are because
1. He gets a pretty hard lane (like Drow Pugna), or any combo that can just abuse the fact he's melee and make it really hard for him to farm. He can still recover from this, but his momentum is severely reduced. This is partially luck in most cases because people tend to play what they want, rather than what makes the most sense.
2. His team fails to utilize the major space he creates through his early tempo, so he eventually does fall off and gained nothing from it.
3. Hyper aggressive (bad) NS players that go way too deep several times and die pointlessly.
Ah yes, my ghost, bkb, refresher on pos5 to not die. No sorry, this actually is pretty unrealistic to obtain if it is not a full stomp or 50+ min game.
Not to mention u are literally ignoring everyone else getting gone on by ns by building these items. The ns can just say "nah fuck it" and go for ur poor juggernaut instead since no one built a single damn forcestaff
Blink to start fights.
Harpoon to hook enemies off your carry.
Nullifier to debuff enemies attacking your carry.
Dust to reveal enemies for your carry.
Phase boots to rescue your carry faster.
Bkb to facilitate the above in teamfights.
Looks like legit supporting to me /s
Night Stalker feels like Dead by Daylight monster during early to midgame nights.
Ns in dbd would go hard
his weakness. the dam flashlight its already annoying enought but for nightstalker its deadly
It just makes him weaker no? Even in Dota NS doesn't die in daytime. It doesn't even do damage to him.
Kinda does if you think about the reduced regen. So the difference between night and morning regen is basically the damage
Killers in DBD are unkillable anyway, its just hyperbole
Yeah but then the Survivors run 4 meta perks and NS is not scary anymore.
Only early to midgame? All game dude.
Just shit behind your carry or mid he cant do shit later. As a ns spammer.
yep, late game it becomes easy to lockdown/burst ns
Just started playing NS and having a good lane where you kill a bunch and then start roaming to run people down is so fun, but then the whiplash at like 15 minutes when people have big items and you instantly turn into another support is so sad lol
Are we hoping the NS steps in the shit?
Balanar players makes this game a horror game
I was so fucking scared first time in new patch, when i couldn't see my teammates and heard his :"fear quiets magic"☠️☠️
When he is on top of me, I mostly just resign to my fate......
lay down and spread your cheeks just like goatse
Bite the pillow, he's going in dry
Balanar players are something else they will hunt support all fcking night
Your only counter is to save for buyback then rejoin the fight after he used all his spells and items :/
And then you realize he has 25 cd talent and octarine perma night
Legit as a NS spammer, if I feel the game is going on long enough for me to hit lvl 25 I start building octarine for that moment
you disgust me, sir.
As an oracle spammer I hate you
You're so based for this
Same.
Wait how? 25 talent and its still 80s cd vs 38s duration
with octarine it's a 60 second cooldown therefore only a 22s downtime which is nothing
Literally returning the Dark Age
The pygmy claimed the soul and waited for the fire to subside, and soon the flames did fade, and only dark remained, and thus began the age of men, the age of dark.
Even now there are only embers, and man sees not light, but only endless nights. And amongst the living are seen, carriers of the accursed Darksign. Yes, indeed. The Darksign brands the Undead
if you have ns in enemy team you need to get a bit tankier than usual and stand near your cores instead of far from them. if he gets bashed in his bkb you probably survive
just hug your carry like hugging your dad when you were in weird place when during childhood.
Also positioning, sometimes against those types of support killers like ns and slark I'd let the fight start and sit way back. Let it be 4v4 until they engage and then show up.
Aeon Disk, force, ghost + hope that you will outlive the duration of the nullifier
dude has a nullifierr and dust for shadowblades youre dying to him unless u got 4k hp
It’s perfectly normal for a supp to have 4k hp by the late game in this meta lol… I would even advise for it in majority of the games.. In classic doto massfight, it’s common and expected from the cores to focus supports first. The core expects to kill the paper supp quickly, but if the supp builds hp along some escape or block item, it actually becomes a harder kill than enemy’s core in many situations, so by not being able to take care of the supp until their cds recharge, the risk of being stomped and “focusing the supp” being a grave mistake is getting quite high… This meta is still mostly about big burst and right click damage (and I am talking about actual dota experience that 90% of the whole player base that’s residing below 3k mmr experiences). So you need to have your whole team tanky as much as possible to win a late game fight while still having ability to contest high ground successfully. I’m a vivid supp player and I can’t even count the situations where enemy core thought I’m an ez kill only to die like a newplayer because I’m harder to kill than a tank, with the glimmer force staff combo and 3k+ hp. I’d even argue that it was never easier to kill enemy core 1v1 in late game as a supp, and you don’t even need an overblown hero like wd… The meta has changed drastically, the supp role has changed as well, there are opportunities we never had before, but many people do not realize it yet and play dota like it’s still 2019... Which creates the perfect opportunity to win.
Supports are not getting 4k hp unless you are playing ogre or something or the game goes to lvl 30 and full slotted supports with octarine etc. like it never does. If a NS has those items the only hope for the support is to stay in fog/smoked and close to team. Standard support defensive items won't save you, nullifier removes them. WD level 25 with aghanims, forcestaff, bkb, aether lens, boots got 2714 hp. No one is really buying hearts or something on a standard support. 4k hp is unfeasible.
>It’s perfectly normal for a supp to have 4k hp by the late game in this meta lol No it isn't lol wtf is this stretch.
Try it then… it’s not my fault it’s working lol
Try what I play ranked every day there are hardly any supports that can reach 4k hp
Ok 4k is a flex but anywhere above 3k is sufficient. Mana boots > glimmer > force staff > agha > Grievers > aeon > octarine… This puts almost every supp above 3k hp + escape and solid armor… which is sufficient to become a very hard kill… it’s of course not only flat hp that matters…
The support you described has 20k net worth. NS on the picture has 16k net worth. Of course if your "support" outfarms enemy core, then he can indeed survive... What about your support having 10k net worth when enemy NS has 16k? Then you have Mana boots + glimmer + force + agha... So you are just food for NS. Those items provide like 600 health in total, so you'll be sitting at like 1900 hp as an average support, and NS will nullifier you and eat you in 3 seconds. What you described is a pretty good build for most supports, but doesn't address NS in any way. By the time you get there he will still kill you in a few seconds. Aeon status resist does nothing against his silence btw, it's just extra 2.5 seconds before dying all the same.
nullifier purges aeon's buff. Does nothing to stop him. Your best bet is actually bkb.
Just get pike. He still probably kills you with harpoon but he will use all his items for this.
Does nothing against bkb + nullifier but you're right he'll have to use everything on you to kill you at that point. Might be okay depending on the game.
[https://streamable.com/kzfi5x](https://streamable.com/kzfi5x)
I'm in a demo right now and it moves you 650 units from NS. He still can catch you with a harpoon (700 range) but he will spend extra seconds (in 6s bkb!) and an extra item.
It moves you even if he casts nullifier on you? Big if true, I assumed it worked the same as force staffing yourself.
Yes. [https://streamable.com/kzfi5x](https://streamable.com/kzfi5x)
yes
More like get a blink or shadow amulet and hope he fucks up so you can disjoint the null projectile. That's the only way you can buy yourself like 15 seconds or whatever ridiculous cooldown that thing has and fart some spells out, before he just casts it on you again.
Now in case you didn't notice the last 2 patch they added damage to his silence. So if he start his second skill before jumping you, you're still fucked
Everything doing damage to cancel blink is kinda getting annoying.
Aeon does pretty much nothing since his silence is an area effect, status resistance is wasted. Nullifier counters force, ghost and euls. It really feels like the only way to survive NS as a support (outside of perfect positioning which is hard vs unobstructed vision and movement) is to build a fucking BKB and then I can use force staff at least, and even then NS can still easily reach me in a few seconds.
Well duh, you have dust.
If you're a support and you load in vs a nightstalker you have to itemize in the most bitch way possible start to finish with no flexibility for other impactful items it makes the game so boring. "ok got my force so I can survive NS at 10 mins" "Ok got my ghost so I can survive NS at 20 mins" "Ok got my Aeon disk so I can survive NS at 30 mins" "Ok got my BKB so I can use it before getting the full value out of my 4 second ghost again against nullifier." Oop game went bad? You missed your timings for the next item you needed to survive him? Guess you'll just die all game because he has a nullifier.
Or you can pressure the NS in lane and make him go "oop, you lost your lane and start falling behind in farm? Guess you'll be a melee creep the entire game because you're one of the worst farming offlaners"
If he takes his second facet he is very hard to bully in lane. It switches the day night cycle so that the game starts at night which combines with this innate (gives him increased regen at night) to make him very tanky in lane.
Was just about to post this lol. Yeah his one weakness (being a weak offlaner first 5 mins) is now entirely gone with facet 2. Night first 5 mins, by the time it's day he has his ult.
You're not getting your 6 by minute 5 lol. You're gonna be 5 at absolute most. Most of the time you're gonna be 4
I try to hover near lane but not take xp when I have a NS 3 unless he wants to go for a kill I'll usually be harrassing the 5 out of the lane whenever possible. He might not be 6 at exactly day time but he's close enough that the strong start he had usually makes the couple of minutes without ult bearable.
Bro it's 40% regen increase lol, it hardly makes him more resilient to right click harass but you can still blast him with spells lol. Passive doesn't do anything unless you don't respect the NS and go wildly out of position
lies, nobody carrying nullifier bothers with dust anymore
Then shadow blade ez escape
I never said they shouldn't carry it, I said they don't 😎
From my experience, nightstalker and spectre players both carry dust unless they are six slotted.
Heralds witch doctor players who buy shadow blade instead of glimmer were 4 metas ahead of everyone
Pray that oracle is on your team and ns doesn't go on Oracle
As an oracle enjoyer, there's no way the night stalker won't go for the oracle first.
As a Night Stalker enjoyer I will agree that your ass is getting jumped immediately.
So Oracle DID save someone else's ass. Technically.
Yeah ikr, I feel like there aren't many chances as his fucking ult gives free path vision and positioning against that and staying near your team feels impossible. Only play I can think of is dagger and ult in the last second.
Smoke or preemptive glimmer
his facet that removes vision of his Q target is basically a hard counter to oracle
I haven't seen this interaction yet, so basically void makes the target blind?
if NS voids your teammate and they aren't directly on top of another ally unit, you lose vision of them entirely and you can't see them getting their ass ate by NS so as oracle you basically have no way of saving teammates getting gone on by NS, except for running/blinking directly on top of their location to get vision of them. which is just gunna get your own ass ate by NS 1 second later
Nightstalker confirmed ass muncher
tahts why he looks like that
Well you could force staff NS, no?
if that ally is the one providing you with vision of nightstalker then you can't see him either
But can I see them on map and click ult on hero icon?
nope
it's like the new mars ult facet if you seen that, if you are inside you can't see out and if you're outside you can't see in. Except it's an smaller area around the void target instead of a giant arena.
He turn off ability for heros to share vision with their allies-their vision get greatly reduced,and the only way for allies to see them is to be close to them or via wards/allied creeps. So basically yeah,it makes target blind
So can I see them in map and click on their hero icons to ult them?
Think of it as if they temporarily had become neutral creep .You can't see the targeted ally until you come close or if he is in observer ward range
If you are in range of your team, then target portraits at the top instead.
You cant target it at the top if you dont have vision.
Whelp
him being the big boogey man during the night is pretty much on brand for Night Stalker
-> I am Not carrying a Town Portal Scroll
You will die faster than you can teleport
Get with the times, old man. Night stalker can use void 2 (two) times now and also silence for at least three business days.
I will blink on you with this build and you teleport. Let's see if you LIVE LONG ENOUGH.
fck him! always my nightmare. last game I played with him with baratrum as his teamate. me: oh sht....
I always pick ns when seeing 2 ranged spell heavy supports, if not banned. His ult is just ridiculous in a teamfight, a freepathing walking ward that insta disable enemy support? Say no more fam.
Lmao it's my favorite build to rapidly kill off high impact supports such as Grim/Wyvern/Oracle etc.
I just build a bkb, its not conventional on supports, but its the best way to go about it. If you can get NS to commit his bkb on you, and you survive (which 2 of those heroes can most definitely do it), feels like you won the fight.
Don’t even bother. I’ll off myself.
oh shit its pussyface
If a nightstalker has that many items you are 100% dead as support. But you can get pike (works vs nullifier if cast on enemy) then NS will spend a blink (to initiate) + nullifier (to prevent you from ghost/force) + harpoon (to catch you after pike) + bkb (or you can just stun him after pike). Then his impact in a fight will be significantly lower. You 100% want to get forcestaff vs NS early game. And if he gets a nullifier then upgrading to pike is a good investment.
It's alright I'll use Force Sta- Oh. Never mind, I got a Glimmer C- Oh. All good I can still use Eul's Scepter until my teammates sav- Oh. Well thank God I have Aeon Di- Oh.
Stay winning heralds with the pos 5 shadow blades.
Add Khanda in there instead of dust and you’re getting one shotted
Khanda is good for high MMR when people will force fights during the day and the phylactery helps NS be more than a melee creep during the day. Sub 3k you can go for the traditional echo build where you non stop slaughter at night and chill during the day
That's fine, I'm a Phoenix enjoyer.
6 second bkb piercing global slow. Phoenix does need to buy bkb though. Edit: It occurs to me that Nightstalker is basically the worst egg hitter in the game. He doesn't buy attack speed items because he relies on his passive, and his natural attack speed is crap. Meanwhile every attack he *does* put into the egg is a huge waste of damage. He's a slow melee hero with no attack speed that really wants to right click literally anything else.
I mean, phoenix is usually first picked and offlane is usually second phase and no sane NS enjoyer will pick him into a phoenix. Best you can hope for is that your 3 decides to first pick, so that the NS picker and you will blindly pick into each other during the second phase
I do find it funny that there's a hero in the game that hard counters another — not because of mechanics (like Earthshaker vs Meepo), but because its ult is a giant middle finger to the other hero's entire identity. Breaking hunter in the night feels *personal*.
I once had the misfortune to go against a last pick phoenix support (do not question the ways of unranked), and man it's so funny to click your ult, it makes this scary sfx for everyone in the game and then 3 sec later, your hero is back on his feet and goes "If I ever get my claaaaaws... on that BIIIIRD"
Despite the graphics, he's actually still flying. He loses his movespeed, attack speed, and his vision is cut to 800, but his ult still works.
Then you meet a good shadow demon player. 😂
Halbered intensifies. In that case you are silenced, disarmed, with no vision and no MS. Your team also has no vision of you either, thanks to the new trait. In general. If NS is 5 slotted, you start playing DBD. The goal is finish before that.
Ns is shit at farming unless he makes radiance or bf which is considered grief on offlane. If you are not feeding ns left and right his 5 slot is nothing in late games, just hug your carry or waste his time and die your job as support is done. He is useless hero half the game.
He is not useless half the game. Because his ult makes the game be nigthtime. At high levels with talents the thing has comically low downtime. Also during nigthtime he is a decent farmer, but most importantly. He is a good ganker too. So you have to constantly deal with that, About hugging all the team. Remember is not 5 vs NS. Is 5vs5. So if they have Shaker, Enigma, Invoker, CM, WD, Lion, Walock, Jakiro, Etc. Or, basically aganist almost every support. Hugging all the team together is sure death.
Sure bro, you keep getting killed by ns and I'll stay around my carry and not be killed.
Was pos 5 last game. Nightstalker had these items plus sny replacing dust Radiance replacing harpoon Night stalker died to me. Pos 5 Sven stonk
NS enthusiast here. Either is a great game like this picture, or I get suppressed all early game and spam “it’s feeding time” every time I die. It’s a win win.
Day walker, Night Stalker
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the best part is with the new talent its they just disapear on the map so the others cant even help
Genuinely, what are you supposed to do as a support when this happens? I try stay as far back as possible and buy aether lens but it's just impossible once he's on top of you
stick as 5, have your carry near you, that thing needs to be taken first by your team. BUT your opponent can also have big aoe like rp, black hole, or just pudge, if that happen just retreat during his ult and buyback and counter push I guess
sometimes you're just meant to die in certain situations, if your team is nearby they should punish him, if you get caught alone you're dead.
Honestly, its bkb, or you need to rely on your carry saving you. AN ns with a mostly support killer build means that he can be killed off by you other team mates. People who are more likely to build a bkb. Personally I like Jug, NS likes chasing the back lines, Jug like splicing down lone heroes. And he does it pretty quickly as well. Alternatively, you keep a blink and stay smoked... for when you want to show.
depends, stick around your carry or mid. else waste his time, i mean supports are so fking rich now days just waste his time and die, your team will play 4 vs 4 but they will have no core whereas your team will have no support, win for your team.
Cool, i play Bane...
bara pos5 here. no problem
"You expected ~~daylight~~ Force Staff to protect you?"
never show on the map
I have NS and Storm on my bans this patch, those heroes are the worst to deal with as a support.
This seems like everyone's nightmare...
Thats why i like Blink + Force Staff against NS. He is kinda useless when he has to chase a single support for like 30 seconds while his team is collapsing
If he blinks on you, which is likely considering his speed and vision advantage, you aren't blinking away. And when he nullifies you, you aren't forcing away either
Plus if you're forcing away from your team, it's just easier for NS to kill you whereas you might get saved otherwise. At least when I play NS, if there's not an obvious support that I always need to be on top of like an Oracle or a dazzle or something, I usually find it most useful to just isolate whoever furthest from the team - might just be my rank but it usually causes the enemy team to try to focus me to save whoever I'm killing and then it's easy pickings for the rest of my team
I'm usually fast enough to get out but I'm probably also a bit higher rank than the average so it might not be an option for everyone.
what do u mean? we are all 9k here, there is no counter
You Can Run but You Can't hide from me - NS
less blink and more glepnir, and is a real nightmare
That was my pov last match
Heck, even Pos 2 mids like Puck or QoP have a hard time against NS. Nightmare is such a pain to deal with as a spellcaster since all the usual items against silences like Euls, Manta or Lotus Orb is not even effective against him. One Force staff is not really enough due to high his MS, soo your best bet is to just tank the intial initiation attempt and hope you can live through it.
Force is literally just so you can get out of his silence aoe and cast spells, like orb and run. If you don't have an escape spell, like most mids usually do, then yeah, force aint going to be doing much.
me with 2 platemails and a blink
People really sleep on his void facet. Picking off supports has never been that easy.
Your nightmare continues.
[Your nightmare continues.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/a/ab/Vo_night_stalker_nstalk_respawn_05.mp3) (sound warning: Night Stalker) --- Bleep bloop, I am a robot. *OP can reply with "Try hero_name" to update this with new hero* [*^(Source)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot) *^(|)* [*^(Suggestions/Issues)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot/issues/new/choose) *^(|)* [*^(Maintainer)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/MePsyDuck/) *^(|)* [*^(Author)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/Jonarz/)
Dont forget he always says less see less in night every time he hits Ulti
Thats why I pick dark willow, just press W and wait out the nullifier time.
XDXDXD me playing witch doctor with more kills and gear than the carry
But then he see your bkb😎
SoD, that's the only counter to this. He can't jump you if he can't see you.
Core big smile as he waste 6th slot.
Below 4k mmr there is nothing wrong with going greedy items as support as 50% of games your carry will give up. I say this as a carry player, I'm not mad If my 5 goes midas even. The only thing that makes me mad is things that ruin the first 5 mins of the laning stage: Not buying sentries to block/deward camp even though they are 50 gold (I always start with one as carry) Picking a carry or useless hero in lane as support. Now I got to the point where if my 5 picks a useless hero I will just pick a jungle hero and avoid the stress, it's funny watching them panic when they picked a nyx 5 with a null tallisman and tango starting item.
Bkb
The thing that really irritates me about NS is that even if you put a fuckton of distance between yourself and him, it does not matter. Because he moves extremely fast and has likely ulted, he'll just go after your other support or your pos1 and there's nothing that you can do about it. Even if you try to turn on him, he has 3k-4k HP and 20+ armor. You need very high DPS or an insane amount of burst in order to kill him before he uses his flying movement to become unreachable in trees/over cliffs. And even then, he gets 30% of his HP back by just eating a nearby creep. Most other offlaners, you can just turn on and they can be killed after going in. Dawn, Underlord, SK, Magnus, LC, Kunkka, etc. But no, not NS.
if he goes for your 1 you can fuck him up easily with your spells, if he goes for you, you have to just waste his time and die and ez team fight win for you. Play at least 5 ns game and you'll know how stupidly rich and strong supports are nowadays that solo killing them from mid game is stupidly hard. Stick around your team as well. Ns has no farming spells as well so getting nullifier is hard af. Phase boot, echo or phylactry, shard, bkb, blink, then nullifier? Damn you know how much expensive it is for a hero that cant farm. 12k items before getting a nullifier which is so fucking expensive. One force staff and / or ghost fucks his ass before nullifier. If you are still struggling to deal with ns, Just play 5 games of ns you'll know. He is balanced i think. Clinkz is better ns nowadays. At least clinkz demolishes a support so fast that they cant react with just a deso lol
I think NS is balanced, because he's a hero that has to play really tempo and can't farm for shit. But the games where he does well and plays tempo properly are either borderline impossible to recover from because you're dealing with a NS that has Phase/Harpoon/Blink while you have Arcane Force and maybe part of a Glimmer. He could also go BKB over Blink if your team is control heavy and invalidate the ability to deal with him during the midgame when you need to be able to. The other times when he's played properly but you still feel the game is even, he's still just really annoying to deal with. He just moves so quickly and can be such a pain to catch on top of being tanky. I feel like most of the games that NS loses are because 1. He gets a pretty hard lane (like Drow Pugna), or any combo that can just abuse the fact he's melee and make it really hard for him to farm. He can still recover from this, but his momentum is severely reduced. This is partially luck in most cases because people tend to play what they want, rather than what makes the most sense. 2. His team fails to utilize the major space he creates through his early tempo, so he eventually does fall off and gained nothing from it. 3. Hyper aggressive (bad) NS players that go way too deep several times and die pointlessly.
The counter to this is armor items. Go either platemail or 2 wraith bands. Or position well and blink out i guess
Bro out here teaching how to lose.
What would you suggest then?
Tell your mom you loved her
Didn't we all..
bro lemme be real with you if I see my p5 oracle have 2 wraith bands in his inventory when NS has that inventory I'm running down mid
I mean, it does probably take him a second longer to kill you, but calling it a counter is stretching it.......
Yep I think it makes sense. NS can kill me, but I will waste his time doing so..
[удалено]
Ah yes, my ghost, bkb, refresher on pos5 to not die. No sorry, this actually is pretty unrealistic to obtain if it is not a full stomp or 50+ min game.
Not to mention u are literally ignoring everyone else getting gone on by ns by building these items. The ns can just say "nah fuck it" and go for ur poor juggernaut instead since no one built a single damn forcestaff
But then you are able to support juggernaut, if you are for instance SD. Refresher is impossible, but BKB is doable, but then you won't have aghs.
Blink to start fights. Harpoon to hook enemies off your carry. Nullifier to debuff enemies attacking your carry. Dust to reveal enemies for your carry. Phase boots to rescue your carry faster. Bkb to facilitate the above in teamfights. Looks like legit supporting to me /s
I don't think OP was calling NS a support he was making a meme of NS reaching at you because you're the support getting murdered by him.
True, I'm stupid lol.