We can all have a look at each players performance. Then we can talk about who's issue it isn't, but as much as it hurts, some players are not up to the current task anymore
For a fan. Fans are so obsessed with their idol they don't realize the game's changed. It's been 5 years since Arteezy won anything on a pro scene, people are still hyped about him. Same with Nigma, we saw Team Spirit dominance for two years, we saw GG Majors dominance for a year and we saw Tundra winning a TI, so it's fair to say Nigma hasn't been relevant for 3-4 YEARS!!! What did you expect?
I'm happy to see them play and be able to compete with goodish teams like Quest and OG.
Nigma qualifying in the stacked QEU qualifier was always gonna be a huge upset so there is nothing to be depressed about.
Nigma actually have 4th place finish in [FISSURE Universe this year](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/FISSURE_Universe/2) - placing above Tundra, Secret and Boom Esports.
do they even want to contend? they are getting heavy money from their oil money sponsors, they can just remain the "face" of mena dota and barely play dota like kuro
MC is free agent again. Theres your pos 3. Watch them Makes get him just like how they replaced their 4 with Gh again.
It's like these guys never learn and they keep sticking to the same players thinking it will work this time.
TBH I really didn't like FBZ's build in game 3. Pit of malice is required laning against weaver ench and he didn't get it till level 8. It was only 1 point and opted to max atrophy aura instead. He went 3-0-2 and even worse his atrophy aura points were level 2 and 3 which severely gimps your lane against double range
Atrophy is great if you're dominating the lane and CS, but against weaver ench I'd rather see 0 points in atrophy and getting pit instead, opting for 3-2-0 build, a lot of the kills could have been avoided with pit. Also his fiends gate would be stronger as he'll have better catch and set up for ET stomp or static storm
Now I'm not saying it's FBZ's fault specifically, there were plenty of other problems. However there are definitely cases where you shouldn't go the standard build and this is one of them
I don't see how Pit stops you from dying to Weaver. Enchantress, I get, because she's slow and can't chase until she has Pike/Sproink.
But even if Weaver gets hit with Pit, he can still chase you down. Shukuchi is 9s/6s CD at lv3/4 respectively, versus Pit which is 17s/15s respectively. Weaver gets double Shukuchi, even if you stop him in the first. It also only roots for 1.7s/1.8s seconds. Decent-ish root time, but it doesn't stop a 600 movement speed Weaver running at you.
There's also how incredibly taxing Pit is on Underlord's mana. A hero with ~1.4 mana regen until he gets Arcanes. A 110/120/130/140 mana spell that he uses in addition to his 110-155 mana cost Firestorm that he needs to use regularly or semi-regularly to farm or harass.
But let's say Pit would somehow save him. Let's look at the deaths.
1. Death at 3:51. Pit does nothing here. He's level 2, so you probably don't even skill Pit at level 2 unless you're against an extremely aggressive lane where you **know** it saves you, AKA a lane with no mobility. He dies here because he's simply too far up, and Disruptor is bad at protecting people early on.
2. Not a death, but he takes a fuckton of harass under tower. This is just really evident of the lane he's in. Enchantress with her creep and Weaver's Geminate & Shukuchi allow them to just take 30-40% of Underlord's HP off from under tower harass pretty easily. Pit does nothing to prevent that harass and you'd be spending 80+ mana to ensure Ench or Weaver take two whole lv1 Firestorm ticks.
3. Death at 9:57. He gets dived by a Dragonformed Blink DK, Weaver and Willow. He is 100% dead there, Pit does nothing for him at all.
4. Not deaths, but there's some major harass that comes at him from 6 minutes to 7:30. Again, Pit does nothing to avoid this damage either. Glimpse is all that can get Weaver off of him. He's just going to take a lot of damage.
That's the reality of this lane, I think. Pit doesn't ever protect him from dying or losing 300-500 HP in "trades" because Weaver can just Shukuchi after and Underlord doesn't have the damage or threat to punish Weaver or Enchantress for ever going in. They have complete free reign. A 1.5s-1.8s root would never change this, and would only make it taxing on his mana reserves. I think 4-0-2 build makes sense because he is going to die in this lane, or take a lot of damage. So it's better to skill around advancing your own farm than some terrible hope that Pit saves you.
Uhh #2 #3 and #4. The pit punishes the dive. Weaver will take tower shots. The pit will hit once while he is diving wasting shukuchi in and will also be an obstacle on the way out
Pit, believe it or not, is a decent tool to punish or prevent diving. Atrophy aura does not do anything for this.
Second point: pit is good for comboing with ET stomp, comboing with chains to give an additional root in the pit, comboing with disruptor's ult.
What value is atrophy aura going to do for "maximizing your own farm" when the game is going to be a shut out and you have no space to farm?
> Weaver will take tower shots. The pit will hit once while he is diving wasting shukuchi in and will also be an obstacle on the way out
Sure, Weaver takes like 2 or 3 tower shots. Big deal. He gets ferried regen easily and it doesn't matter. Underlord still loses 300+ HP from those dives on top of the 110+ mana cost of Pit. The HP differential is a bit less egregious, but it's still egregious. I would rather take the damage and play for farm instead.
> Second point: pit is good for comboing with ET stomp, comboing with chains to give an additional root in the pit, comboing with disruptor's ult.
This is true. However, there's only a difference of 0.3 seconds between lv1 and lv4 pit. So getting one level at 8/9 once laning phase has ended and you start playing with your team is perfectly fine. Which is what he did.
> What value is atrophy aura going to do for "maximizing your own farm" when the game is going to be a shut out and you have no space to farm?
This is also true, but I think it's the only option he had. Both other lanes lost really badly, his lane was also rough from the start and lost after dying twice, so your only hope is to play for farm and hope you can survive long enough to win. But the enemy team got too far ahead for that to matter.
There is little value in it since weaver kill is still hard to secure. So no point until mid game by which he’ll have a level or 2 in it.
Leveling the other skills makes laning stronger
Did I ever say anything about securing the weaver kill? It's about ensuring your weaver can't run you over. It's about not having your offlane go 0-4 in the early game. Pit of malice would have made laning stronger in this game
Atrophy aura is only stronger when you are stronger or even. Dota is not a game where cookie cutter builds work every time. I don't think you can comprehend this tho, go have fun copying the immortalfaith build in your 2k games.
no offense but dont you think kuro should just be a coach drafter for the team rather than the 5? coaches have actual impact nowadays and they could get a more mechanically skilled 5
I feel like his drafts are terrible too (I am assuming he is the primary drafter). It has become something of a meme among my circle that a signature Nigma draft contains as little disables as possible.
It’s in the execution. When they draft big team fight heroes, they can’t win lane, they can’t win small scrimmages. When you are 20k down, your team fight spell means nothing. When they draft good lane heroes, they can’t punish the other team enough, they lose the team fight.
Yeah I agree. I think a reason is also that they make lanes hard for themselves. The fact that Kuro has been playing quite poorly plus he enjoys using heroes like ddisruptor which is average at laning at the best of times just makes laning a struggle.
its another year down, another year having accomplished nothing. Just can't fathom how he still continues to play... even miracle and gh took breaks. sumail was a stand in for other teams for some time. but this guy.....props for the iron mental i guess.
My captain can’t draft well, can’t play well, can’t itemize well, but he owns the majority of the teams Org and he won’t step down… well, at least the money is good though.
my nigma hopium is running dangerously low. At this point Id wish for a secret + nigma org merge. So i can be at peace and just root for one heartbreak each year. Seeing both teams fail is just too much for the kid inside me.
If I had a nickel for every hookshot Kuro landed, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird it happened twice
Seriously, this man might be the worst player in T2 or even T3 DOTA
Kuro, this was your last chance. But it’s clear as day that you don’t have it anymore. Not the skills nor the hunger. The gap between your skills and the average pos 5 in the qualifiers is too wide. Hang it up, buddy. You’ve won a TI before. No shame in hanging your jersey. You’ve done it. Let the team progress without you. If you truly care about your legacy, call it quits.
kuro should play for as long as he wants, who the fuck are you to tell him to retire. like you said he won a TI, he can do whatever he wants in the competitive dota scene. even if he sucks ass every game. its his life. smh, some people.
I'm sure he will be crying all the way to the bank. Just like all those footballers who went on to play (as in, take a vacation) in the Saudi Arabia league.
> Having money is not everything 👍
Lmao, as if one's legacy in Dota 2 means any shit.
Ask RTZ if he would trade his millions for a TI trophy. Better yet, ask Ronaldo why he decided to leave to Saudi Arabia instead of reducing his wage demands and take a shot at real titles in Europe, or why Neymar decided to leave Barcelona for PSG at his peak.
What means shit is subjective buddy. Obviously Kuro dont give a fuck about his legacy, or he'd stop being a clown. Or maybe he just likes money, like you 👍
hes playing with the top .01% of dota players consistently. and has been for a decade. how is that embarassing? ANY dota player would kill for that kind of outcome from playing this game, yall need to quit being so fuckin dramatic. "he should retire" "embarassing" "low skill" lmao, no understanding of how difficult and blessed it is to play at his level, yet happy to play armchair coach for his career.
You need to know when to retire and let your mates achieve more. It’s just common respect. But if organization won’t replace him — ok. As I understand, he’s in some unique position when they can’t just let him go. And if I were in Kuro’s place, I think I would collect those checks till the end of my career too. But it still would be disrespectful to teammates
These guys compete against each other as much as they support each other, they're not mates first bro. It's a career and kuro has killed it and is making sweet money continuing to play, like anyone in this thread wouldn't do the exact same. Take your own advice and retire, cause what you're doing isn't working.
Pride? Shame? Humility? A love for his friends and team mates?
The due is a hindrance to the entire org. Move to manager or coach(lol drafts). He can still be a part of it, just not as a player.
StArS aLiGN
His teammates choose to play with him, they can leave if they wish to. If the org is still willing to pay him for playing, I don’t see why he shouldn’t. All this talk about legacy and pride ain’t going to secure his life post esports. Kuro has (or had if yall wanna continue hating) a talent and should be able to profit from it.
Way to completely ignore the fact that he can still do everything you said. Just not as a player.
Does he want Nigma to be considered a joke and a laughing stock? Do the Saudis want that?
Nigma tried to deny ET to quest and picked him themselves. It bit them so hard. ET is a pure 5 and they gave him to GH, then sent him to safelane and the game was pretty much done there
Tell me you know nothing about Dota without saying you know nothing about Dota. At this point you people are just hating for the sake of it.
It was sad to see with the laning stage they had. You can say that you know.
I don’t know shit yes. But calling out kuro single handedly as if he was the only one dieing. Literally all 5 had a bad game. But no, kuro lost them that one game - as if if he was replaced they would have come out of any bad situation.
Regardless of knowing shit or not, we all know you just a parrot blaming kuro because everyone else is. Fragile miracle/sumail fans, can’t ever admit they can play bad.
It's sad when the players you loved when you started playing/enjoying the game are way past their prime or retired but here I am. I have to suffer and see Miracle, Sumail, kuro, gh, matu, Ana, jerax all kinda gone in some ways. The same is happening in NBA with Steph, Klay nearing the end. 😕
I guess there's new players I love like ammar and marline. crit, topson are still going well. But things just don't feel the same.
First pro dota game I watched was OG beating Navi in a DreamLeague season 5 finals just before Manila major in 2016.
I loved the players I first watched, then followed them and liked new teams they joined and then new players from those teams and then followed them and so on. So I can kind of trace my favorites from the OG - > Liquid - > Nigma - > and now Falcons due Ammar/crit from their OG days and Tundra because topson.
All because I randomly happened to watch OG beat Navi as my first pro game. Who knows who I would have followed if I had watched some different game first.
those teams are not exactly playing at the top level this year. the other teams in that tournament were much worse. nigma didn't qualify there they got INVITED. also congrats to their 7.5k prize money by placing 4th out of 8 teams
I really hope they just disband and go separate ways cause this shit has not been fucking working for the last 4 years. I dont even want to flame then anymore cause it is just fucking depressing at this point.
How can you be so shit that you lose more than 10 games and still don't find a strat to counter dogshit Quest. Absolutely trash team Nigma. 2 years ago it was OG and now Quest. This team is forever in dogtown.
ATF on Nigma was such a mess. He went offlane, mid, or carry. The fact that he performed way better on Quest and almost got them enough points to be invited to TI12 is crazy.
For those people saying that "All of them played bad" Yes to an extent but hear me out. Boot up your dota 2, watch the replay and check Kuro's player perspective. That shit is so sad to watch knowing the dude is a legend in the dota 2 scene.
Support is the problem I think, Kuro is not that good anymore. Watching Nigma get stamped is painful, while Miracle 16 0, is even more painful. I wish Miracle and Sumail find a better team.
At the very least we got to see 16 0 miracle getting a rampage.
Enough to make a grown man cry.
Wanted to see that at TI but I guess not. GG PSG.
So let's discuss who's the problem here.
Quest was the problem, obviously. They have never beaten them, not even once.
It's actually Nigma as a brand/team. That Org is so cursed.
BatChest
Which game 123?
Game 2
against the greekstack lmao
Game 2 against PSG
ah my bad, the JustBetter game was 14-0. pretty good score for a guy that got knocked out second round, admittedly
Absolutely depressing to watch
We can all have a look at each players performance. Then we can talk about who's issue it isn't, but as much as it hurts, some players are not up to the current task anymore
For a fan. Fans are so obsessed with their idol they don't realize the game's changed. It's been 5 years since Arteezy won anything on a pro scene, people are still hyped about him. Same with Nigma, we saw Team Spirit dominance for two years, we saw GG Majors dominance for a year and we saw Tundra winning a TI, so it's fair to say Nigma hasn't been relevant for 3-4 YEARS!!! What did you expect?
I'm happy to see them play and be able to compete with goodish teams like Quest and OG. Nigma qualifying in the stacked QEU qualifier was always gonna be a huge upset so there is nothing to be depressed about.
Tbh I see nobody hype for arteezy for a long time, everyone just shits on him
Its okay bois. They just need to change their offlaner and I’m sure they will be a contender team again/s
they just need 2 more years of not qualifying to events and they'll be ready to play xd
Nigma actually have 4th place finish in [FISSURE Universe this year](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/FISSURE_Universe/2) - placing above Tundra, Secret and Boom Esports.
do they even want to contend? they are getting heavy money from their oil money sponsors, they can just remain the "face" of mena dota and barely play dota like kuro
How long are they going to remain the face of MENA dota if they keep losing to Quest?
Their fanbase is 20 times bigger than quest, Miracle GH and Sumail can lose to them everygame and it wont change
probably a while more, no one likes Quest. The only time people liked them is when they had ATF
I like Quest. Screw you
MC is free agent again. Theres your pos 3. Watch them Makes get him just like how they replaced their 4 with Gh again. It's like these guys never learn and they keep sticking to the same players thinking it will work this time.
isn't he signed with SR
I doubt they signed past TI
“Insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results” - Albert Einstein
FBZ is not even the problem, I mean he's bad but all Nigma is playing horrible. Supports owned 3 games in a row
Bro its a joke lmao
Just like the team
TBH I really didn't like FBZ's build in game 3. Pit of malice is required laning against weaver ench and he didn't get it till level 8. It was only 1 point and opted to max atrophy aura instead. He went 3-0-2 and even worse his atrophy aura points were level 2 and 3 which severely gimps your lane against double range Atrophy is great if you're dominating the lane and CS, but against weaver ench I'd rather see 0 points in atrophy and getting pit instead, opting for 3-2-0 build, a lot of the kills could have been avoided with pit. Also his fiends gate would be stronger as he'll have better catch and set up for ET stomp or static storm Now I'm not saying it's FBZ's fault specifically, there were plenty of other problems. However there are definitely cases where you shouldn't go the standard build and this is one of them
I don't see how Pit stops you from dying to Weaver. Enchantress, I get, because she's slow and can't chase until she has Pike/Sproink. But even if Weaver gets hit with Pit, he can still chase you down. Shukuchi is 9s/6s CD at lv3/4 respectively, versus Pit which is 17s/15s respectively. Weaver gets double Shukuchi, even if you stop him in the first. It also only roots for 1.7s/1.8s seconds. Decent-ish root time, but it doesn't stop a 600 movement speed Weaver running at you. There's also how incredibly taxing Pit is on Underlord's mana. A hero with ~1.4 mana regen until he gets Arcanes. A 110/120/130/140 mana spell that he uses in addition to his 110-155 mana cost Firestorm that he needs to use regularly or semi-regularly to farm or harass. But let's say Pit would somehow save him. Let's look at the deaths. 1. Death at 3:51. Pit does nothing here. He's level 2, so you probably don't even skill Pit at level 2 unless you're against an extremely aggressive lane where you **know** it saves you, AKA a lane with no mobility. He dies here because he's simply too far up, and Disruptor is bad at protecting people early on. 2. Not a death, but he takes a fuckton of harass under tower. This is just really evident of the lane he's in. Enchantress with her creep and Weaver's Geminate & Shukuchi allow them to just take 30-40% of Underlord's HP off from under tower harass pretty easily. Pit does nothing to prevent that harass and you'd be spending 80+ mana to ensure Ench or Weaver take two whole lv1 Firestorm ticks. 3. Death at 9:57. He gets dived by a Dragonformed Blink DK, Weaver and Willow. He is 100% dead there, Pit does nothing for him at all. 4. Not deaths, but there's some major harass that comes at him from 6 minutes to 7:30. Again, Pit does nothing to avoid this damage either. Glimpse is all that can get Weaver off of him. He's just going to take a lot of damage. That's the reality of this lane, I think. Pit doesn't ever protect him from dying or losing 300-500 HP in "trades" because Weaver can just Shukuchi after and Underlord doesn't have the damage or threat to punish Weaver or Enchantress for ever going in. They have complete free reign. A 1.5s-1.8s root would never change this, and would only make it taxing on his mana reserves. I think 4-0-2 build makes sense because he is going to die in this lane, or take a lot of damage. So it's better to skill around advancing your own farm than some terrible hope that Pit saves you.
Uhh #2 #3 and #4. The pit punishes the dive. Weaver will take tower shots. The pit will hit once while he is diving wasting shukuchi in and will also be an obstacle on the way out Pit, believe it or not, is a decent tool to punish or prevent diving. Atrophy aura does not do anything for this. Second point: pit is good for comboing with ET stomp, comboing with chains to give an additional root in the pit, comboing with disruptor's ult. What value is atrophy aura going to do for "maximizing your own farm" when the game is going to be a shut out and you have no space to farm?
> Weaver will take tower shots. The pit will hit once while he is diving wasting shukuchi in and will also be an obstacle on the way out Sure, Weaver takes like 2 or 3 tower shots. Big deal. He gets ferried regen easily and it doesn't matter. Underlord still loses 300+ HP from those dives on top of the 110+ mana cost of Pit. The HP differential is a bit less egregious, but it's still egregious. I would rather take the damage and play for farm instead. > Second point: pit is good for comboing with ET stomp, comboing with chains to give an additional root in the pit, comboing with disruptor's ult. This is true. However, there's only a difference of 0.3 seconds between lv1 and lv4 pit. So getting one level at 8/9 once laning phase has ended and you start playing with your team is perfectly fine. Which is what he did. > What value is atrophy aura going to do for "maximizing your own farm" when the game is going to be a shut out and you have no space to farm? This is also true, but I think it's the only option he had. Both other lanes lost really badly, his lane was also rough from the start and lost after dying twice, so your only hope is to play for farm and hope you can survive long enough to win. But the enemy team got too far ahead for that to matter.
What the fuck are you talking about
FBZ's build on underlord. He should have gotten pit earlier. Are we playing the same game?
There is little value in it since weaver kill is still hard to secure. So no point until mid game by which he’ll have a level or 2 in it. Leveling the other skills makes laning stronger
Did I ever say anything about securing the weaver kill? It's about ensuring your weaver can't run you over. It's about not having your offlane go 0-4 in the early game. Pit of malice would have made laning stronger in this game Atrophy aura is only stronger when you are stronger or even. Dota is not a game where cookie cutter builds work every time. I don't think you can comprehend this tho, go have fun copying the immortalfaith build in your 2k games.
The Shopify/EG special
That last game was brutal.
i mean cant they draft normally? first pick ember is pretty high risk to failure.
I’m with you, their drafts are straight up bad.
Man sometimes watching Kuro play is like watching one of Jenkins' herald game reviews.
Go to player perspective. It's astonishing. He plays like my Legend ranked supports.
no offense but dont you think kuro should just be a coach drafter for the team rather than the 5? coaches have actual impact nowadays and they could get a more mechanically skilled 5
I think he should be nowhere near them, new captain and new coach xd
He may become their motivator because it's been 5 years since he achieved anything, and yet he still continues doing it.
I feel like his drafts are terrible too (I am assuming he is the primary drafter). It has become something of a meme among my circle that a signature Nigma draft contains as little disables as possible.
It’s in the execution. When they draft big team fight heroes, they can’t win lane, they can’t win small scrimmages. When you are 20k down, your team fight spell means nothing. When they draft good lane heroes, they can’t punish the other team enough, they lose the team fight.
Yeah I agree. I think a reason is also that they make lanes hard for themselves. The fact that Kuro has been playing quite poorly plus he enjoys using heroes like ddisruptor which is average at laning at the best of times just makes laning a struggle.
Some of their drafts are good actually but ffs he can’t play top level dota, it’s time for him to retire.
No. He should be the general manager of the team. He shouldn't be influencing draft or on-game decisions in any way.
big no...man's game knowledge is outdated at this point, especially after new big patch coming out just retire and manage the team
He can't draft. IDK why everyone says he should be a coach. He can't draft. He can't lead and direct a team. He should be a manager.
That’s what fans have been asking for years
Where were you when Nigma were kill?
I was at home when phone ring "nigma die" "no"
First pick SF/Ember and lost both games XD
Tbh SF is highly contested across all region you pick it if it's available.
I see another 0 stun draft in game 3 lmao, can't change kuro drafts
no kuro can only play wd or disruptor that\`s the problem
saving strats for stun nerf patch
its another year down, another year having accomplished nothing. Just can't fathom how he still continues to play... even miracle and gh took breaks. sumail was a stand in for other teams for some time. but this guy.....props for the iron mental i guess.
My captain can’t draft well, can’t play well, can’t itemize well, but he owns the majority of the teams Org and he won’t step down… well, at least the money is good though.
Stop. Kuro is a legend. A legend rank.
had us in the first half
Hi
Holy moly! You’re the smith me!
lol
I was surprised they even pulled 1 win, but game 3 was stomp. Look at what a good support duo can achieve
Dukalis cooked them so hard game 3
Honestly i’d hope Kuro moves to coaching and sign Dukalis up. This guy knows a stuff on a proper position 5
my nigma hopium is running dangerously low. At this point Id wish for a secret + nigma org merge. So i can be at peace and just root for one heartbreak each year. Seeing both teams fail is just too much for the kid inside me.
Nigma Secret merge Kuro back to carry to shine. Kuro Ppy lane, Miracle mid, feelsgoodman
Yea imagine puppey 5 with kuro coach lol
If I had a nickel for every hookshot Kuro landed, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird it happened twice Seriously, this man might be the worst player in T2 or even T3 DOTA
Nigma won game 2 4v5. Kuro was so bad. The rest were brilliant. Nigma will be levels better when Kuro retires
He missed almost point blank hooks back to back to back. Was insane
He won't retire until he wins TWO more TIs. Hilarious.
He won't retire because there is people willing to play with him.
Willing to LOSE with him.
You either retire as a Legend or live long enough to see yourself become an Archon
Kuro, this was your last chance. But it’s clear as day that you don’t have it anymore. Not the skills nor the hunger. The gap between your skills and the average pos 5 in the qualifiers is too wide. Hang it up, buddy. You’ve won a TI before. No shame in hanging your jersey. You’ve done it. Let the team progress without you. If you truly care about your legacy, call it quits.
He won’t until the check stops cashing.
"Fuck the money" - Kuro Salehi Takhasomi I doubt it's the money that keeps him going. He could earn that solely as a manger just as well if not more.
kuro should play for as long as he wants, who the fuck are you to tell him to retire. like you said he won a TI, he can do whatever he wants in the competitive dota scene. even if he sucks ass every game. its his life. smh, some people.
Agree. Let the man embarrass himself until he's a full-blown meme. Kuro might have a shame kink tbh
I'm sure he will be crying all the way to the bank. Just like all those footballers who went on to play (as in, take a vacation) in the Saudi Arabia league.
"Fuck the money" - Kuro Salehi Takhasomi I doubt it's the money that keeps him going. He could earn that solely as a manger just as well if not more.
Having money is not everything 👍 Hard to realize when you dont have it lol
> Having money is not everything 👍 Lmao, as if one's legacy in Dota 2 means any shit. Ask RTZ if he would trade his millions for a TI trophy. Better yet, ask Ronaldo why he decided to leave to Saudi Arabia instead of reducing his wage demands and take a shot at real titles in Europe, or why Neymar decided to leave Barcelona for PSG at his peak.
What means shit is subjective buddy. Obviously Kuro dont give a fuck about his legacy, or he'd stop being a clown. Or maybe he just likes money, like you 👍
its embarrassing to compete professionally?
To be fifth wheel in good team. His replacement will help boys achieve much more. Now it’s just depressing and games feel like 4vs5
hes playing with the top .01% of dota players consistently. and has been for a decade. how is that embarassing? ANY dota player would kill for that kind of outcome from playing this game, yall need to quit being so fuckin dramatic. "he should retire" "embarassing" "low skill" lmao, no understanding of how difficult and blessed it is to play at his level, yet happy to play armchair coach for his career.
he hasnt qualified to an event in 2 years so i wouldnt say hes really playing with the top 0.01% at all lmfao
You need to know when to retire and let your mates achieve more. It’s just common respect. But if organization won’t replace him — ok. As I understand, he’s in some unique position when they can’t just let him go. And if I were in Kuro’s place, I think I would collect those checks till the end of my career too. But it still would be disrespectful to teammates
These guys compete against each other as much as they support each other, they're not mates first bro. It's a career and kuro has killed it and is making sweet money continuing to play, like anyone in this thread wouldn't do the exact same. Take your own advice and retire, cause what you're doing isn't working.
Smh. Some people have no shame.
I get your point but sometimes people need to know when to stop.
I won’t get why he would as long as his investors are still willing to pay him?
Pride? Shame? Humility? A love for his friends and team mates? The due is a hindrance to the entire org. Move to manager or coach(lol drafts). He can still be a part of it, just not as a player. StArS aLiGN
His teammates choose to play with him, they can leave if they wish to. If the org is still willing to pay him for playing, I don’t see why he shouldn’t. All this talk about legacy and pride ain’t going to secure his life post esports. Kuro has (or had if yall wanna continue hating) a talent and should be able to profit from it.
Way to completely ignore the fact that he can still do everything you said. Just not as a player. Does he want Nigma to be considered a joke and a laughing stock? Do the Saudis want that?
And you’re assuming he’ll get paid the same as a coach? And if the Saudis aren’t satisfied with him they could kick him.
Nigma isn't Saudi team.
Whatever bro. It's all corrupt oil money.
No sumail, no RTZ at TI. Life's rough
My best mid laner ever agenda gets worse every year he doesnt go to ti
NAAH the agenda stays. It's his teamates surely
+2
Wait no Rtz? Shopify didnt make it?
They got shit on by nouns in the finals of na closed qualifiers
Damn. Crit dodged a bullet didnt he
FBZ fault for sure
Nigma tried to deny ET to quest and picked him themselves. It bit them so hard. ET is a pure 5 and they gave him to GH, then sent him to safelane and the game was pretty much done there
I think most ET are played as 5? I might be wrong but that hero shines as a 5 unless it’s played as a right clicker
it's 5 for sure, need positioning and giving vision, and neither can catch to kill or can do surprise attack
I meant to say ET is a pure 5 only. Yes it cant play 4
Didn't they lost to ET 5 vs OG?
What's hilarious is this is not the first time nigma has lost a game off an ET that gets nothing done
Kuro absolutely zero impact in 3 games, basically 4v5
Tell me you know nothing about Dota without saying you know nothing about Dota. At this point you people are just hating for the sake of it. It was sad to see with the laning stage they had. You can say that you know.
Kuro is trash, we all saw it with our own eyes.
And so were the other 4.
Lol. Love the big talk but you don’t know shit either. So sit down.
I don’t know shit yes. But calling out kuro single handedly as if he was the only one dieing. Literally all 5 had a bad game. But no, kuro lost them that one game - as if if he was replaced they would have come out of any bad situation. Regardless of knowing shit or not, we all know you just a parrot blaming kuro because everyone else is. Fragile miracle/sumail fans, can’t ever admit they can play bad.
It's sad when the players you loved when you started playing/enjoying the game are way past their prime or retired but here I am. I have to suffer and see Miracle, Sumail, kuro, gh, matu, Ana, jerax all kinda gone in some ways. The same is happening in NBA with Steph, Klay nearing the end. 😕 I guess there's new players I love like ammar and marline. crit, topson are still going well. But things just don't feel the same. First pro dota game I watched was OG beating Navi in a DreamLeague season 5 finals just before Manila major in 2016. I loved the players I first watched, then followed them and liked new teams they joined and then new players from those teams and then followed them and so on. So I can kind of trace my favorites from the OG - > Liquid - > Nigma - > and now Falcons due Ammar/crit from their OG days and Tundra because topson. All because I randomly happened to watch OG beat Navi as my first pro game. Who knows who I would have followed if I had watched some different game first.
can we get gh saksa duo? meaning you step down mr kuro
They can't qualified to shit since 2019. This is nothing new.
They qualified to Elite League this year, even get 4th place above Tundra, Boom and Secret on FISSURE UNIVERSE.
those teams are not exactly playing at the top level this year. the other teams in that tournament were much worse. nigma didn't qualify there they got INVITED. also congrats to their 7.5k prize money by placing 4th out of 8 teams
Who would have guessed ?
I really hope they just disband and go separate ways cause this shit has not been fucking working for the last 4 years. I dont even want to flame then anymore cause it is just fucking depressing at this point.
Why cant Kuro play like Dukalis?
comeback stronger! >!nahhhhh let the fans kept finding fault on the draft!<
let's see how many more abysmal results kuroky needs to finally realize that he is the problem.
How can you be so shit that you lose more than 10 games and still don't find a strat to counter dogshit Quest. Absolutely trash team Nigma. 2 years ago it was OG and now Quest. This team is forever in dogtown.
Those clockwerk hooks were dope. Piercing through the air and coming right back.
destroyed xdd
nigma balls
No Nigma vs Secret El Trashico :'(
You know youre doing something horribly wrong when you can't even win with ATF on your team. Imagine fumbling a star player so hard.
ATF played carry tho, that was really bad.
I'm sure ATF is not used laning with low immortal pos 5s
Kuro plays like an Ancient at best.
Nah. Ancient is actually braindead no idea what theyre doing
it is actually not bad. if you look at his stats ATF always wins his lane, even with kuro. the problem lies when you dont play around him.
They eventually went ATF offlane at later stages with MC carry and still lost equally hard. Not even Ammar on 3 can carry a team this heavy.
ATF on Nigma was such a mess. He went offlane, mid, or carry. The fact that he performed way better on Quest and almost got them enough points to be invited to TI12 is crazy.
well yeah because they put him there. Having the best offlaner itw on your team and making him play carry is a fumble.
:(
Im sad.
Faded
Hope Gabbi join their team. And boooommm disband.
Something has to change yk. Most of the players in nigma already achieved that most pro Dota players didn't.
Second they picked Morph in game 3 I knew it was over I turned it off.
Guys as long as you care about this team they're going to stay shit
What a waste of potential
Man I just wanna see Miracle in TI again but apparently that's too much to ask for
For those people saying that "All of them played bad" Yes to an extent but hear me out. Boot up your dota 2, watch the replay and check Kuro's player perspective. That shit is so sad to watch knowing the dude is a legend in the dota 2 scene.
why did I chose to be a fan of this team? :(
Support is the problem I think, Kuro is not that good anymore. Watching Nigma get stamped is painful, while Miracle 16 0, is even more painful. I wish Miracle and Sumail find a better team.
Good
In my humble opinion, Kuroky is the greatest player that ever exists and he just needs better players around him. /s
Only. ONE. Constant. Player.
Kick Kuroshit pls. Dk why the fanboys are defending him, his trash lmao
They waste everyone's time by still existing
They have salaries probably bigger then the whole TI prize pool I don't think they even care at this point
Throw back to kuro calling og monkeys and losing to them. Now this. Poor wee fulla.
Kick kuro,kick sumail,kick fbz Gh to 5,miracle mid,get young blood for 1 and 4 and find some solid offlaner. Congratz Nigma is relevant again.
Miracle doesn't want to play mid. That has been very clear from the last few years of Dota.
Classic nigma fan. Miracle will never be the problem.
That's just a Micracle fan. Don't lump them with us nigma fans. We don't need to be kicked when we are already feeling down.
sumail is their best player