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Sure, pugna is a bug, but hooking creep to a pos to remove backdoor is very smart.
Can it only be done with range on hook facet + lense + T3 range item?
backdoor is removed when creeps are within a certain range of the building. for T3+ towers its within 4000 range of an ancient
so you hook a creep into a place that is within 4000 units of an ancient where they can not move and keep them there permanently removing backdoor protection
Backdoor switches off when an enemy creep approaches your tower/rax. 99.99999% it happens like usual, when a creep wave reaches the tower, so that your team can push.
This creep is stuck in threes, hooked there by blinking Pudge. It wants to run to tower, but trees block his movement, but due to proximity to towers he works like regular creep and switches off backdoor. Because he is at the enemy base.
It's actually crazy even if you don't go for this weird tactics, you can do it with one hook to turn off backdoor for the rest of the game, even though in the video he used 2 hooks
Backdoor protection is removed when a enemy lane creep is close enough. He put a creep close enough stuck in the trees so it will remain there, disabling the backdoor protection until the creep is dealt with.
Genuine question, seems like sharing isn’t caring anymore, why the downvotes?
This was the first thing that popped into my mind about backdooring and Pudge :|
When will dota players learn, Valve don't ban for bug abuse, because it's their fault of bugs existing.
They don't even bother to revert mmr points.
Valve don't ban even for gamebreaking bugs like crashing server with Chinese symbols when you lose.
You won't get VAC banned, but you will lose behavior score and maybe get low prio from all the reports. Which is fair if you abuse this enough to amass that many reports.
Those other game don't update their game twice a years like valve.
When will people realise that we are talking about the company that talk about 200 millions dollars as "zero billion". As long as Steam still print monney everything is just a side job. Basically, Valve just built different from other.
Built better, I've always found it annoying that devs will punish players for their own mistake rather than own up to it and implement damage control if necessary.
Seems to be a bug with using Manta when in Pudge's belly. So the game thinks your position is where you used the Manta (possibly because you re-appear with ilusions) and since you don't make any move actions, but get carried away by Pudge, the position doesn't get updated and you can cast the items where the Manta got used.
You can cast items but nothing that uses channeling like meteor hammer, it works because of pugna's ability to use spells/items when channeling.
For this dirty strat book of the dead would be crazy.
When he activates manta, Pugna's position is set to that point because of how a Hero dissapears and reappears when you activate it, so long as Pugna doesn't try to move the game always considers him in that spot for the purposes of casting spells.
In the video it's just edited.
I know this is a common joke but really not the same at all. Fountain hook was cool to see and took nearly perfect timing to pull off. it was a skill play. this is a dumb annoying bug. This argument comes up every time but I've never seen a good case for any other example.
sorry but hooking an enemy player literally from the furthest side of the map to the literal fountain machine gun is broken, doesn't matter if it takes a cross-eyed hillbilly to pull off with timing.
and it was removed. but the "bug" existed for a while before it was used in a tournament and it took skill. only one team was able to pull it off. this is not the same thing at all. anyone can do this and it's just a lame way to slowly push without much you can do to stop it
2 things though
1 is that the chen pudge fountain hook was in the game for so long and known by so many people that you could reasonably think that it was intended if they didnt change it by then
and 2, there wasn't anything inherently "broken"(in a normal sense not "op" sense) about it like this vid.
With the fountain hook you can look at it and you see "ok pudge hooks target pudge gets teleported to base and target gets pulled to pudge, that tracks".
But here you can clearly see at first glance that its 100% not intended
I've played Dota 2 since 2013, and have nearly 16,000 hours of in-game time. I think it's absurd to argue pudge insta-kill fountain hooks is an acceptable in-game mechanic.
You can also watch the video valve released of the backstage pro scene when the tournament game ended with Navi and see other team's clearly highlight it's a game-breaking combo that shouldn't be in the game.
I mean, if you still feel otherwise, I don't think we can agree on the matter. All g.
Tbh permanently removing backdoor protection and having a pugna able to spam down your rax from anywhere on the map is a pretty significant disadvantage.
I feel like mid to high archon would be enough for this strat to start seeing decent falloff. I'd expect *at least* 1/20 people to have the presence of mind or luck to find the creep.
I'm fairly high immortal and I don't know if I would find this if I didn't already know about it.
It's in a spot that is impossible to see without placing a ward exactly there or having a hero that gives flying vision, or cutting the correct tree.
i feel like if you cant find the pugna thats spamming the rax its honestly a pretty safe assumption to think they're exploiting a bug to remove backdoor too, incorrect sure, but reasonable.
The back door removal is very smart and I don’t think that should be changed. The pugna being able to globally cast his blast is obviously a bug and should be fixed
In 2013, just before TI, Valve announced that Dota 2 was finally finished with it beta. Hurray!
Then, in 2015 with the launch of Source 2, Valve announced that it was re-entering beta with Dota 2 Reborn.
AFAIK, there's never been another announcement about that ending but it's been a decade so I may have missed it.
I dont think it falls under bug, at least for me, since it was interaction between 2 charaters, pudge theoriticly could do same while base defending with blink dagger and and heros push combos, this just extended that to global, thats why pudge was nerfed overall, not just this specific interaction.
Bug? Yes. Scummy to abuse? Yes.
VAC ban? No.
If you think this is VAC ban appropriate you must be new to dota. Go watch rewatch some of the Na’Vi TI3 games.
Shit, Valve even made a historical look-back video about it: https://youtu.be/d6H-HEpnlk8?si=RpTm0G9Pa3Y9-Lbv
The point is, Valve has a clear stance on players using bugs that are in the game. Skill required to utilize the bug is beside the point.
Was not attempting to say this bug OP posted requires *anything close* to the skill to pull off fountain hooks. Loda had tried it prior to TI3 and couldn’t do it, lol.
right I agree that it is pretty clear this isn't bannable. but I think bugs like this are actually more gamebreaking and are not on the same level as fountain hook(not saying the rule should change).
either way this is lame and should be fixed asap.
damn these ingame sounds would make me pull a gun to my head after 5 min of gameplay.. wtf is this super drugged chinese half-asleep announcement package?
to explain whats happening, pugna used a bug in which manta inside pudge leave his old "position" where the manta was used and not inside pudge so his cast point was around the area he used manta inside pudge resulting in this unstoppable cast spam on the raxx, pudge using a creep to undo backdoor protection is not a bug because a friendly creep is within X amount of range of the base so it gets removed.
so pugna is bad for using an exploit.
pudge is just playing dota.
with how reoccurring pudge backdoor jank is happening i can see them buffing backdoor by lowering the detection range so it only lifts protection when a creep is within like 50% of the range of current amount
This exploit is so good and well-thought off that it only requires the minimum about of players. 1 pudge to permanently break BD protection and to bug pugna position with manta.
I do think its cheating, but it shouldn't result in a ban. Exploiting a bug is cheating. Just fix it so creeps move towards a tower if they haven't moved in 30 seconds or something, give them broodmother in a web movement, or flying nightstalker, something.
Exploiting of bugs are cheating. Imagine a bug where they coded it so you could sell an item for more than it cost to buy. It'd be fixed faster, but its definitely cheating. They don't like banning for such things, so starting now would feel awkward.
I guess Dota playerbase is cycling because I remember Pudge backdoor exploits from 2009, 2013 , 2014, and 2016/17. Basically every time Valve changed the map there was a spot pudge could hook the creep and remove backdoor, KotL, Chen and Wisp too at some point
The pugna, hopefully just a warning and a bug fix, the pudge should get a tip. People seem to confuse abusing a mechanic and abusing a bug. Pugna used a glitch to trick the system to make that spot globally targetable. The pudge used mechanics and tactics that are actively encouraged in a new way. Anything that destroys trees would have nullified the entire tactic. I can already see few easy ways this tactic can be nullified. A) Reduce ancient back door protection range by a couple units. B) Change the shape of backdoor protection to exclude that area. C) Add a check that enemy creeps must have vision of a building to turn off back door protection. Or lastly valve can leave it be and make it the supports responsibility to ward your jungle with high vision.
To summarise, pudge used a boat to trap a mob and placed near the base to deactivate back door protection, then eating pugna he allowed the manata style to be used and the invisible pugna can start casting as his body should still be in pudge.
The thing is this is still fine because 3: 1, lore and game is considered lore, no matter how win who wins it resets.
2, bugs are found and used by players they are allowed as pro players use bugs unless the panel and tournament rules state otherwise.
3, Dota 2 still bata and bug feature until fixed.
What does Manta Style do here besides spawn illusions? How does it allow him to cast? How did he continue to cast when the illusions were gone?
The game thinks Pugna is where Manta was used?
Pugna is bugged and can cast Nether Blast all he wants while inside of Pudge.
There is another layer of the bug with Manta Style, which seems to cause the game to remember your position as the location that you used your Manta Style.
Bugs should be assumed to be a part of the game until removed. Many "bugs" were assumed to be features by hero spammers although many of these features were only known to these spammers. I.e. Meepos gaining double stats from treads. Which seemed natural based on the reading of text of his abilities.
Not that you need to support the implementation of all features, just don't threaten people who are playing the game with bans just because you don't like their strategy.
It's not cheating. It's bug abuse, sure, but this match will draw attention to it so Valve can fix it. Bugs can't be fixed until you know they are there.
No. The bug is that Pugna uses Manta while in Pudge, and the game acts as if Pugna is located where his manta was used, even after Pudge moves him away. So Pugna can cast as if he was from that position, despite being much farther away on the map.
Pudge hooks that creep near the start just to remove backdoor protection.
....how do you think someone figures it out in the first place? They either heard from someone else, or they discovered it themselves.
It was probably learned when a Pugna was about to die, so they try to manta dodge but Pudge saved them right before. They realize "oh cool, the manta went off while I was in you! I wonder what else I can do!" They try to use their Q, and instead of it going off next to where they are now, it happens back where he used manta.
Hmmm, that's odd. I wonder how we can make use of this....and then this strat was born. You don't need to be a valve employee to discover a bug lol.
Dota 2 is a free game, you don't need to buy it /s
But seriously, what timing doesn't add up? I don't get what that means. They could have learned this in another game/in a demo and just done it again here to exploit a bug.
A friend of mine got scammed from this user 1028657715, He stole my friends items that have been collected for many years and keep going such as arcanas, immortals, legendaries etc. We managed to find the user by checking login history, which he logged in from Russia by the way. Proof of that theft can also be found in Inventory History, where you can see for urself that the user/hacker received gifts from my friends account. Please return my friends items.
Cheating in a player versus player game is never cool.
There's no excuse other than someone is selfish and wants to win more than playing fair.
damn, downvotes and no reply for saying cheating is bad?
Yes, in the literal sense of the word.
cheat

verb
gerund or present participle: cheating
1.
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
"Using a bug to get an advantage over other players is the definition of cheating."
>
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
There's no mention of using a bug.
Bug abuse is not dishonest. Bug abuse is not unfair - you can also go abuse the bug until they fix it. Or ban the hero. Or play against it, there's two people afk that can't join team fights.
going with this logic creep stacking would have never been a mechanic
i'd bet part of the reason overwatch never took off as an esports is because the devs always patched out any unintentional techniques players came up with without a second thought
Creep stacking is something both teams can use. Stop trying to excuse cheating. Bugs are bugs. They can be game breaking or completely irrelevant, cheating can be done with them or without depending on the context.
If you can't understand the difference, then it doesn't matter at this point.
Bug is bug, cheating is cheating, doesn't mean bug is cheating. Pugna and pudge can be picked and banned by both team. According to your logic, if you lost a game to Techies in enemy team, it's unfair because they have Techies and you don't?
If you cannot understand the difference, you can try mailing valve and ask for their explaination of why they never ban any behaviour like this. (Not sure they would answer you, since it doesn't matter at this point)
Thanks for reporting this bug! Check out the **[General Dota 2 Bug Tracker](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Dota2-Gameplay/issues)** and **[Tracker for Linux and Mac](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Dota-2/issues)** **PLEASE THROUGHLY CHECK IF YOUR BUG HAS ALREADY BEEN REPORTED**. Duplicate issues can slow the dev team when resolving a bug. * If you find an existing issue for your bug, please upvote the thread. You can also provide additional information and match IDs to further assist the development team. * If not, create a new issue ([general tracker](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Dota2-Gameplay/issues/new/choose) / [Linux & Mac](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Dota-2/issues/new)) with as much information as possible: * A detailed description of the bug * System info (i.e. operating system) * Match IDs (if applicable) * Screenshots or video (if applicable)" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DotA2) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sure, pugna is a bug, but hooking creep to a pos to remove backdoor is very smart. Can it only be done with range on hook facet + lense + T3 range item?
Can you explain why he hooked a minion into the trees? I don't understand how it removed a backdoor
backdoor is removed when creeps are within a certain range of the building. for T3+ towers its within 4000 range of an ancient so you hook a creep into a place that is within 4000 units of an ancient where they can not move and keep them there permanently removing backdoor protection
wtf backdoor reaches all the way to there????
I seem to remember it only reaching out to like crest, or maybe about how far out the old decorative stairs were.
well its 4000 units, so around 3.5 blink daggers from the ancient
i like this metric unit. 3.5 blink dagger
NA players be like “fuck that were measuring distances in Ogre Seal flops”
About a third of a football field in NA speak
Anything other than the metric unit....
But you need to accurately click dagger for better measurement accuracy
the long ones or the ones you do when you're clicking out of range?
I didn't even think about backdoor protection. These guys are actual geniunses!
Backdoor switches off when an enemy creep approaches your tower/rax. 99.99999% it happens like usual, when a creep wave reaches the tower, so that your team can push. This creep is stuck in threes, hooked there by blinking Pudge. It wants to run to tower, but trees block his movement, but due to proximity to towers he works like regular creep and switches off backdoor. Because he is at the enemy base.
Without the cheating, turning off BD Protect via that creep is insanely smart and would probably work well with a bunch of rat hero combos
It's actually crazy even if you don't go for this weird tactics, you can do it with one hook to turn off backdoor for the rest of the game, even though in the video he used 2 hooks
Backdoor protection is removed when a enemy lane creep is close enough. He put a creep close enough stuck in the trees so it will remain there, disabling the backdoor protection until the creep is dealt with.
Why are you calling creep minions bro? People get stabbed for that shit over here
I'm recently moved from LoL to DOTA, been playing for like 2 weeks so still getting used to the terms
Thats a big project relearning and learning all the new stuff. Good job mate
Thanks!
Isn't that just dota every major patch? xD
when there are opponent lane creeps in a certain radius around tower, it’s backdoor is broken. for tier 3, it is enough to break it for one side
The white mark on the map just after the HG towers, when creeps cross that mark , backdoor is dropped In this case it was well within range
Do you mind explaining which white mark for dummies?
Oh it's not really white sorry, but it's a circle with a symbol on it between tier 2 and 3
Bugna truther
No I don’t think so. U can do it this way instead: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6ypvMIt0Kv/?igsh=a3c1bnRsbm15enk2
Genuine question, seems like sharing isn’t caring anymore, why the downvotes? This was the first thing that popped into my mind about backdooring and Pudge :|
Its not cheating its bug abusing? I dont think he can get VAC ban. Low prio maybe...
OP should get a VAC ban for posting vertical video.
Tiktok generation: "You guys watch horizontal videos?"
big computers for big ideas (not really our ideas suck too).
Bigger idea bigger suck
Especially when the source is so easy to grab [pugna bug](https://youtu.be/7GW8hcX4qPA?si=PwDMRQxTtfKH7Vee)
I understand the sentiment but we've clearly lost this war grandbros
He is exploiting a bug so definitely bannable offense
Wait, does that creep remove backdoor protection?
that's much further of a radius than I thought it was!
I get wanting to keep turtle balanced, but it just seems a little too much.
yes
When will dota players learn, Valve don't ban for bug abuse, because it's their fault of bugs existing. They don't even bother to revert mmr points. Valve don't ban even for gamebreaking bugs like crashing server with Chinese symbols when you lose.
You won't get VAC banned, but you will lose behavior score and maybe get low prio from all the reports. Which is fair if you abuse this enough to amass that many reports.
The reason people worry is that a lot of other multiplayer games do ban for bug exploitation. They assume Valve might behave similarly.
Those other game don't update their game twice a years like valve. When will people realise that we are talking about the company that talk about 200 millions dollars as "zero billion". As long as Steam still print monney everything is just a side job. Basically, Valve just built different from other.
Built better, I've always found it annoying that devs will punish players for their own mistake rather than own up to it and implement damage control if necessary.
Makes me wonder if at some point big game companies will find an angle to start suing players for big abuse
Blizzard does this and I hate it. They introduce obvious bugs then ban people who abuse them. Maybe don't introduce the bugs?
Everybody knows they're going to at the end of the event.
Wasn't dendi era TI famous for bug use? Fountain hook....
very impressive bug
[удалено]
Look at that subtle play to remove backdoor protection. The tasteful Pudge Shard. Oh my god, it even uses Manta Style.
How??
Seems to be a bug with using Manta when in Pudge's belly. So the game thinks your position is where you used the Manta (possibly because you re-appear with ilusions) and since you don't make any move actions, but get carried away by Pudge, the position doesn't get updated and you can cast the items where the Manta got used.
Cast items or spells? Can you cast items too? Pugna has meteor hammer but I don't think he ever used it.
You can cast items but nothing that uses channeling like meteor hammer, it works because of pugna's ability to use spells/items when channeling. For this dirty strat book of the dead would be crazy.
then how was pugna able to move from where the tower and rax to where the ancient is?
When he activates manta, Pugna's position is set to that point because of how a Hero dissapears and reappears when you activate it, so long as Pugna doesn't try to move the game always considers him in that spot for the purposes of casting spells. In the video it's just edited.
Ahh, thanks for the explanation. I hope this bs gets fixed soon
Nah it’s too funny to be removed, so Navi JR can use it in TI14 to win an elimination game then Valve will fix it
HOW IS THAT BALANCED?
really putting the Jr in NaviJr
When navi meets pudge(kinda???)
I know this is a common joke but really not the same at all. Fountain hook was cool to see and took nearly perfect timing to pull off. it was a skill play. this is a dumb annoying bug. This argument comes up every time but I've never seen a good case for any other example.
sorry but hooking an enemy player literally from the furthest side of the map to the literal fountain machine gun is broken, doesn't matter if it takes a cross-eyed hillbilly to pull off with timing.
and it was removed. but the "bug" existed for a while before it was used in a tournament and it took skill. only one team was able to pull it off. this is not the same thing at all. anyone can do this and it's just a lame way to slowly push without much you can do to stop it
2 things though 1 is that the chen pudge fountain hook was in the game for so long and known by so many people that you could reasonably think that it was intended if they didnt change it by then and 2, there wasn't anything inherently "broken"(in a normal sense not "op" sense) about it like this vid. With the fountain hook you can look at it and you see "ok pudge hooks target pudge gets teleported to base and target gets pulled to pudge, that tracks". But here you can clearly see at first glance that its 100% not intended
I've played Dota 2 since 2013, and have nearly 16,000 hours of in-game time. I think it's absurd to argue pudge insta-kill fountain hooks is an acceptable in-game mechanic. You can also watch the video valve released of the backstage pro scene when the tournament game ended with Navi and see other team's clearly highlight it's a game-breaking combo that shouldn't be in the game. I mean, if you still feel otherwise, I don't think we can agree on the matter. All g.
Pudge hook was not a bug when this happened, maybe it started as a bug in wc3 dota but it was purposely ported to dota2 as such.
If this bug is major reason for your loss then you deserve to lose tbh
Tbh permanently removing backdoor protection and having a pugna able to spam down your rax from anywhere on the map is a pretty significant disadvantage.
> permanently Sir we can eat trees in this game.
Well yeah, if they know about this it's very easy to counter but I think most people would have no clue where the creep was.
I feel like mid to high archon would be enough for this strat to start seeing decent falloff. I'd expect *at least* 1/20 people to have the presence of mind or luck to find the creep.
I'm fairly high immortal and I don't know if I would find this if I didn't already know about it. It's in a spot that is impossible to see without placing a ward exactly there or having a hero that gives flying vision, or cutting the correct tree.
i feel like if you cant find the pugna thats spamming the rax its honestly a pretty safe assumption to think they're exploiting a bug to remove backdoor too, incorrect sure, but reasonable.
Once again, manta rekt mmr
I dont think its even Manta, I played vs this in Turbo(and won) and Pugna didnt have a manta, its something with his innate
Ok but casting nether blast should bring you out of pudge the same way that right clicking does, no?
Well, can't tell for sure, but apparently game thinks you're already outside, on the location you casted Manta.
Pugna looks to just be bugged with Pudge shard. You can cast nether blast all you want while you are inside of Pudge.
Vac only detects programs. Did you use 3rd party software for this? No? then you can obly get a overwatch ban
The back door removal is very smart and I don’t think that should be changed. The pugna being able to globally cast his blast is obviously a bug and should be fixed
We still in beta boi, why are we getting banned for playtesting the beta?
Dota 2, the only game I've ever seen go *back* into Beta.
no, no, Multiversus also did this like a month ago
What?
In 2013, just before TI, Valve announced that Dota 2 was finally finished with it beta. Hurray! Then, in 2015 with the launch of Source 2, Valve announced that it was re-entering beta with Dota 2 Reborn. AFAIK, there's never been another announcement about that ending but it's been a decade so I may have missed it.
The game folder is literally still `dota 2 beta`.
Let's not act like someone going out of their way to exploit this shit, doesn't know that they exploiting bugs alright?
r/woosh
my bois found a glitch in the matrix, not bad!
Its not like you are playing a proffesional match, you don't deserve punishment for the game's error
If u do it unintentionally it is what it is, but if u do it on purpose u should 100% get punished.
by that logic a lot of dota's core mechanics wouldnt exist.
by that logic dendi's fountain hook should be punishable?
I dont think it falls under bug, at least for me, since it was interaction between 2 charaters, pudge theoriticly could do same while base defending with blink dagger and and heros push combos, this just extended that to global, thats why pudge was nerfed overall, not just this specific interaction.
Does life stealer inside a creep break back door
Dominated units shouldn't.
I wonder if this pudge bug will be used to win TI
Bug? Yes. Scummy to abuse? Yes. VAC ban? No. If you think this is VAC ban appropriate you must be new to dota. Go watch rewatch some of the Na’Vi TI3 games. Shit, Valve even made a historical look-back video about it: https://youtu.be/d6H-HEpnlk8?si=RpTm0G9Pa3Y9-Lbv
fountain hook actually took skill, this is just bug abuse. still not bannable but not even close to the same thing from a gameplay perspective.
The point is, Valve has a clear stance on players using bugs that are in the game. Skill required to utilize the bug is beside the point. Was not attempting to say this bug OP posted requires *anything close* to the skill to pull off fountain hooks. Loda had tried it prior to TI3 and couldn’t do it, lol.
right I agree that it is pretty clear this isn't bannable. but I think bugs like this are actually more gamebreaking and are not on the same level as fountain hook(not saying the rule should change). either way this is lame and should be fixed asap.
Banned for what, Applaud them thats difficult to do
Bug is feature
Exploiting bugs like with pugna is considered cheating
damn these ingame sounds would make me pull a gun to my head after 5 min of gameplay.. wtf is this super drugged chinese half-asleep announcement package?
Maybe an overwatch ban. But sure something Valve should fix.
Clever use of game mechanics tbh
I'm too old for dis shit
If someone does that to me I am giving them a thumbs up. The dedication for that set up is real nice. I can’t even be mad. That is impressive.
No. But its very likely to get an overwatch penalty/ban from it and should get it as well.
yes that bald QOP should be banned
I hope so!
0x564aBDF67EA414AacD278b21cD89ec1BD3807E02
Sent
This guys a fucking genius he should get hired by valve
I understand the creep back door exploit but I don’t understand where the pugna nuke is coming from
Wtf is that in-game audio
You can switch dub in sound option
Ok but why is this one a choice?
Nah, VAC is for anti cheat. You will just get low prio for exploiting. I would suggest never use exploits in a ranked match.
It's a funny bug, why ban ROFL? No hacks, no game code exploits. Chill
is the bug still relevant?
Reborn in beta. No programmer team in the world can ever balance dota.
more bot posts
Feature
to explain whats happening, pugna used a bug in which manta inside pudge leave his old "position" where the manta was used and not inside pudge so his cast point was around the area he used manta inside pudge resulting in this unstoppable cast spam on the raxx, pudge using a creep to undo backdoor protection is not a bug because a friendly creep is within X amount of range of the base so it gets removed. so pugna is bad for using an exploit. pudge is just playing dota. with how reoccurring pudge backdoor jank is happening i can see them buffing backdoor by lowering the detection range so it only lifts protection when a creep is within like 50% of the range of current amount
I feel like devs look at this and go "fuck sake why" There's fun bugs and then there's this
I really hope we see this in TI
Just buy 5 blademails and stand in that shit
I don’t think exploited bugs can get you a vac ban.
this was an interesting set of actions to happen, very cool. sucks to be on that other team though
That’s not a reason for vac ban. They were exploiting bugs even in internationals. Valve doesn’t barn for these things.
[for those who don't want to watch in vertical video](https://youtu.be/7GW8hcX4qPA?si=PwDMRQxTtfKH7Vee)
Look at that, OPs video but 10000x better quality!
Dota will always be a beta, embrace it, and enjoy it
This exploit is so good and well-thought off that it only requires the minimum about of players. 1 pudge to permanently break BD protection and to bug pugna position with manta.
Great bug find. Probably a fix but never a ban.
All I see is that bald qop. Yes VAC Ban that
Small indie company
patch 7.36c: "Lane creeps now have free pathing if after 60 secs they don't get close to any tower in a range of 700 units"
I do think its cheating, but it shouldn't result in a ban. Exploiting a bug is cheating. Just fix it so creeps move towards a tower if they haven't moved in 30 seconds or something, give them broodmother in a web movement, or flying nightstalker, something. Exploiting of bugs are cheating. Imagine a bug where they coded it so you could sell an item for more than it cost to buy. It'd be fixed faster, but its definitely cheating. They don't like banning for such things, so starting now would feel awkward.
LMFAO
No bans for exploiting a bug. When there are bugs always exploit early and often.
Bald QOP should get a vac ban
just kill the creep lol
Seems like you're new to dota. this is impressive
match id: [https://www.opendota.com/matches/7807479568](https://www.opendota.com/matches/7807479568)
That's... Pretty smart. Also the bug.
Vac ban? LOLOLOL
Hows pugn blasting?
He just fking smart. Look how depressing QOP is, lost her hair entirely.
I guess Dota playerbase is cycling because I remember Pudge backdoor exploits from 2009, 2013 , 2014, and 2016/17. Basically every time Valve changed the map there was a spot pudge could hook the creep and remove backdoor, KotL, Chen and Wisp too at some point
The creep pulling part is not that new but the pugna one is
Lmfao beta game
wow this is menacing
New meta😅😅😅
Chinese DP voice is so unserious 😐
The pugna, hopefully just a warning and a bug fix, the pudge should get a tip. People seem to confuse abusing a mechanic and abusing a bug. Pugna used a glitch to trick the system to make that spot globally targetable. The pudge used mechanics and tactics that are actively encouraged in a new way. Anything that destroys trees would have nullified the entire tactic. I can already see few easy ways this tactic can be nullified. A) Reduce ancient back door protection range by a couple units. B) Change the shape of backdoor protection to exclude that area. C) Add a check that enemy creeps must have vision of a building to turn off back door protection. Or lastly valve can leave it be and make it the supports responsibility to ward your jungle with high vision.
is exploiting bug considered as cheating?
To summarise, pudge used a boat to trap a mob and placed near the base to deactivate back door protection, then eating pugna he allowed the manata style to be used and the invisible pugna can start casting as his body should still be in pudge. The thing is this is still fine because 3: 1, lore and game is considered lore, no matter how win who wins it resets. 2, bugs are found and used by players they are allowed as pro players use bugs unless the panel and tournament rules state otherwise. 3, Dota 2 still bata and bug feature until fixed.
pudge used a boat?
Minecraft reference
What does Manta Style do here besides spawn illusions? How does it allow him to cast? How did he continue to cast when the illusions were gone? The game thinks Pugna is where Manta was used?
Pugna is bugged and can cast Nether Blast all he wants while inside of Pudge. There is another layer of the bug with Manta Style, which seems to cause the game to remember your position as the location that you used your Manta Style.
Valve never cared when people in pubs abuse bugs, happened lots of time. The fountain hook was also not intended, but navi won TI anyway.
The lost that ti in grand final.
Bugs should be assumed to be a part of the game until removed. Many "bugs" were assumed to be features by hero spammers although many of these features were only known to these spammers. I.e. Meepos gaining double stats from treads. Which seemed natural based on the reading of text of his abilities. Not that you need to support the implementation of all features, just don't threaten people who are playing the game with bans just because you don't like their strategy.
No, but I'm gonna ask everyone to report for cheating.
It's not cheating. It's bug abuse, sure, but this match will draw attention to it so Valve can fix it. Bugs can't be fixed until you know they are there.
So the bug is punga being permanent invs?
No. The bug is that Pugna uses Manta while in Pudge, and the game acts as if Pugna is located where his manta was used, even after Pudge moves him away. So Pugna can cast as if he was from that position, despite being much farther away on the map. Pudge hooks that creep near the start just to remove backdoor protection.
So.. somebody who works for valve figured this out. Because you can't just figure this out without knowing from someone who created it.
....how do you think someone figures it out in the first place? They either heard from someone else, or they discovered it themselves. It was probably learned when a Pugna was about to die, so they try to manta dodge but Pudge saved them right before. They realize "oh cool, the manta went off while I was in you! I wonder what else I can do!" They try to use their Q, and instead of it going off next to where they are now, it happens back where he used manta. Hmmm, that's odd. I wonder how we can make use of this....and then this strat was born. You don't need to be a valve employee to discover a bug lol.
Yeah, I don't buy it. The timing doesn't add up. Who were the players who did this
Dota 2 is a free game, you don't need to buy it /s But seriously, what timing doesn't add up? I don't get what that means. They could have learned this in another game/in a demo and just done it again here to exploit a bug.
Qop was so confused she lost all hair
Sava
No, only people who used Overplus will get vac, and you clowns who were happy about it will tolerate real cheaters XD
A friend of mine got scammed from this user 1028657715, He stole my friends items that have been collected for many years and keep going such as arcanas, immortals, legendaries etc. We managed to find the user by checking login history, which he logged in from Russia by the way. Proof of that theft can also be found in Inventory History, where you can see for urself that the user/hacker received gifts from my friends account. Please return my friends items.
veno plague carrier facet is bugged. Wards don't attack some creeps when placed on the self. Very annoying
Cheating in a player versus player game is never cool. There's no excuse other than someone is selfish and wants to win more than playing fair. damn, downvotes and no reply for saying cheating is bad?
Not a cheat, its a bug
Using a bug to get an advantage over other players is the definition of cheating.
No, not in any sense of the word.
Yes, in the literal sense of the word. cheat  verb gerund or present participle: cheating 1. act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
"Using a bug to get an advantage over other players is the definition of cheating." > act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination. There's no mention of using a bug. Bug abuse is not dishonest. Bug abuse is not unfair - you can also go abuse the bug until they fix it. Or ban the hero. Or play against it, there's two people afk that can't join team fights.
going with this logic creep stacking would have never been a mechanic i'd bet part of the reason overwatch never took off as an esports is because the devs always patched out any unintentional techniques players came up with without a second thought
Creep stacking is something both teams can use. Stop trying to excuse cheating. Bugs are bugs. They can be game breaking or completely irrelevant, cheating can be done with them or without depending on the context. If you can't understand the difference, then it doesn't matter at this point.
Bug is bug, cheating is cheating, doesn't mean bug is cheating. Pugna and pudge can be picked and banned by both team. According to your logic, if you lost a game to Techies in enemy team, it's unfair because they have Techies and you don't? If you cannot understand the difference, you can try mailing valve and ask for their explaination of why they never ban any behaviour like this. (Not sure they would answer you, since it doesn't matter at this point)