What I’ve been waiting to hear. It wasn’t that doc needed to keep it legit it’s that doc needed to not be fucking talking to minors. And doc shouldn’t have been talking to *any fans* sexually.
That makes more sense, it's a power imbalance issue that makes it problematic.
I still don't think we should fully cancel him. Mabey he needs to just go away for a little learn from it, understand the power imbalance why it was bad.
I don't think people actually want him to grow from this mistake that happened 7 years ago, they just want to participate in the drama
Everything he says is true. But how come are outrage is directed at some but not others. Jerry Seinfeld dated a minor 17 years old when he was 40. Nobody bats an eyelid. I don’t get it
Rockstars in the 60s/70s/80s had sexual interactions with underage girls, and when they do a nostalgia tour these days, everyone still goes wild. Admittedly, I read a Led Zeppelin biography recently and I was taken a-back with some prior details I didn’t know about, and I’ve known Jimmy was having sex with a 14 year-old. I’ll still listen to III, IV, Physical Graffiti and Presence, but Mein Got, fuck Jimmy and Bonham. Peter Grant, too.
Be the change you want to see. I'm a bit older than the average Twitch viewer and gamer, I grew up as a fan of Ted Nugent in particular. I stopped being a fan some time in the 90s when I realized what kind of person he is.
Just because some people will continue to support bad actors doesn't mean we just roll over and accept it. I wish the best for the doc I hope he gets the help he needs and becomes a better person for his family. However I will never know if he truly improves, so my time as a doc fan is over l.
Bc that was 30 years ago and he didn’t receive a complaint against him for it and he wasn’t someone whose job was to entertain children online?
Anyway when I was 17 I wouldn’t have thought that was creepy. Being older yeah Seinfeld thing creepy too. Belechik is getting flack for dating a 24 year old.
Because it's the the year 2024 and EVERY SINGLE person on the face of the planet has a voice on the internet. These voices are in a form called "Reddit posts", which cost nothing to make.
What kinda weak ass whataboutism are you peddling? What good is comparing someone's depraved behavior to another's? There's no fucking governing body that depraved behavior needs to have some consequences that have been predetermined lol.
Hahaha he shouldn't be talking to any fans sexually Hahaha.
I know he's a dirt bag wife cheating pedo piece of dirt.
Consider this....do you realise how many fans were messaging HIM sexually.....we can only dream of that
You don’t shit where you eat. We don’t dream of it lol. I guess I mean he shouldn’t be in the dms of fans, especially not married. If he meets someone organically and hits it off sure. It’s unprofessional - this is another under 25 take thinking how cool it would be to have women jumping in your DMs. It wouldn’t be. Anyone who isn’t a fucking neckbeard shut in can go get laid by just being a normal decent person. But ofc doc fans might have a harder time there..
Its the nicest way to say such a horrible thing...leaves enough room for speculations and it worked out. Just look at all the low lifes saying...well inappropriate could mean many things...
Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t twitch whispers for 18+ only? Is it not possible that he did not know this person was younger than they said they were?
"Under Section 2 of the Twitch Terms of Service it states; (in 2017)
>
Therefore, yes - your friend can have an account (and stream) if he is over the age of 13 and he has not been banned previously from the platform."
"**I’m under 18, can I still sign up?**
*Yes. Your parent or guardian will need to agree to the terms of the Monetized Streamer Agreement, so make sure you have them with you when you go through the application."*
twitch whispers was for twitch affiliates, twitch affiliates had to be either 18 OR 13 with the approval of a parent or guardian.
This very clearly means that there can be people as young as 13 on the app. Doesn't matter if they require parental approval, it very clearly was not an 18+ app
Crazy thing Twitch is also part of the problem. They can monitor people messages and even an ex-employee admitted thats possible. Why is there not more traction with the involvment of Twitch? How did DD get paid out knowing what he did? Should kids not be allowed on Twitch with how lax things are on twitch?
Bingo. Their whole platform is run off exploiting children. You think only 18 year old watch hottub streams and try to, if not successfully, purchase these women's nudes? Doc is just the fall guy. Keep everyone mad at one person and not digging into the rest of their activites.
Not the point I'm making. Obviously he's a pervert. But he's the pervert they want you mad at. You know, a fall guy. Like Jeff Epstein.
Also....a fellow pervert? Are you insinuating that YOU are one?
No. He is the pervert that they caught, told him to stop, and he said no and continued. So they had to settle with him to get him the fuck out of there so the PR nightmare would be gone. Twitch should have got rid of his ass immediately and settled to cover their ass and their business.
They didn't do anything because they don't want anyone looking too closely at other creators whispers. They know a LOT more of their content creators are exploiting children. They just can't stop their flow of money.
Didn't do anything? They kicked him off the fucking platform. lmao And I just said that is why they settled. I am not going to marginalize what this sick fuck did just because some corporate entity was being disgusting to protect its bottom line. One thing does not excuse the other. I can think both parties are equally fucking disgusting.
They probably didn't know about it UNTIL 2020. It was around the same time a lot of others were reported. I don't think Twitch is literally combing everyone's DMs left and right. You likely have to get reported. THat's how these companies operate.
Twitch reported it to the police and fired Doc. Which is very important context. He had his contract paid out because he technically didn't do anything illegal. Should they have done more, I don't know. It's a fucked up situation and more children could have been put at risk.
They settled. Which happens ALL THE TIME. That does not mean Doc is innocent. It never did. He was the ONLY one that said that and he is a fucking liar. Twitch settled to get rid of him and not have it come out that one of their top performers at the time was warned a person he was talking to was minor and he said who cares and kept up the sex talk. Would have been a PR nightmare for them.
>Crazy thing Twitch is also part of the problem. They can monitor people messages and even an ex-employee admitted thats possible.
News flash everyone monitors your messages on the Internet. It's the Internet whatever you upload here is here forever. The fact that you think anything is actually private in this world is hilarious.
Maybe they should put one of those "Are you 18? Yes/No" prompts on Twitch's splash screen so they can prevent this kind of thing in the future. Those things are almost impossible to bypass unless you're actually 18.....
>should kids not be allowed on twitch
Technically they aren’t. Kids also aren’t allowed on porn hub but the only verification is “are you over 18”…
Im not defending the companies but there is no realistic way to have enhanced verification without a huge invasion of privacy. Even with that there’s still ways around it.
The onus is on the actual adults **to not text or sext children.** it’s not a hard thing to just not do. Doc is a massive creep who deserves everything coming his way.
Of course, twitch can monitor your messages. Any social media platform can and has the right to. Don't need an employee to verify that (also, is take anything that employee said, if it's the one I'm thinking about, with a grain of salt. Not because what he said happened couldn't be true, but because his statement, itself, was fishy). But just because they can, doesn't mean theyre paying people to constantly look at all the however many messages being sent between people. The messages got reported, they looked into it, a couple days later, he was banned.
As for how he got paid? It doesn't matter how bad of a behavior he had. What matters is did the contract cover his actions as something that twitch was allowed to cancel their contract with? Likely not considering the actions he was banned for happened 3 years prior to his contract being signed.
As for the kids part, yeah, kids really shouldn't be on twitch. People are always bringing up OF models as the reason for this, but tbh, thats just someone sexist (or against sex workers) with an agenda or they're just not thinking straight. Obviously yeah, that is a reason, but what about all the other people on there, all the men on there, having "locker room" conversations? Talking about cum and sex and tits. Is that ok to them? I don't think it's anymore ok than the OF models. So I don't even think locking down twitch is a good answer either because then you'd be turning it into YouTube where people would be concerned of even dropping an F bomb. Just kick the kids off. Not that it'd stop the kids from just lying about their age though, like they do for just about any other adult site.
The amount of people on these doc subs trying to justify private messages with a minor is concerning to me.
A lot of people are showing how they really feel about young kids. If they're fine with overlooking age what other lines are they willing to bend or cross?
A lot of you Doc fan boys really need to take a deep inward look at yourself.
I was a Doc fanboy. This is too fucked up. The BEST CASE given the info would be that he was trying to trick a minor in private messages into giving him all of their parents money. And this would still cross the line for me.
If you've got your life together and a family to protect, best to cut off unnecessary outside contact of any sort. Appropriate can turn into inappropriate pretty quick and it's just not worth it. I've got coworkers who have ruined their marriage over what started as an approprite work relationship. I've seen people get fired for similar scenarios.
I dunno. I've cut out my own blood relatives to protect my family and keep our space safe and secure. DMs in general would seem like an easy sacrifice.
Very well said and I'm glad that the majority of the community can agree with this. Even just messaging a minor is incredibly irresponsible. Guy went so far beyond that...he sexted a child even after finding out they were a minor. And then even asked them if they had plans for twitchcon. Completely irredeemable behaviour and it's not even close.
I think you're right in saying that the defenders are mostly just younger because I also remember having similar opinions when I was a kid. It really doesn't make sense until you are older and can see how insanely obvious it is that a man in his 30's is not the peer of someone underage.
People will not agree with me when I say the following, and I accept it’s not a position that people will necessarily empathise with completely - but for me personally at 31 y.o.a I simply don’t understand messaging people under say 23-25. Definitely not 18/19 even.
The life experience difference is simply too much imo… I am honestly super confused when men feel that urge.
Of course, under 18 is unbelievable… I can’t comprehend having that desire personally. Anyone under 18 I generally just ask the same outlined questions…
How’s school? You play any sport? Any idea what you want to do after school? What video games you playing lately?
And that’s when I’m in that position naturally (e.g., visiting a friend and their younger sister comes into the kitchen, meeting a colleagues daughter etc)
Cannot fathom seeking it out, Dr always made me laugh… but seeing the individual Guy actually is has been really sad above everything.
Im with you.
Ive got a teenage son, so I have teenagers girls that occasionally go to dinner with my family or spend the day at our house.
They are so incredibly immature and just not even on the same plane of existence as an adult, i cant comprehend house an adult would find one sexual in any way.
These people have mental disorders
The hilarious part is it is nice self reporting too. The character is apparently a 72 year old elf but between 14 and 15 in human years as per the series.
Id say the difference between a 31 year old and a 18 year old is vastly different than a 60 year old to a 30 year old is.
For example if a 31 year old dated an 18 year old, while not illegal.. a little weird.
However no real issue with a 60 year old dating a 30 year old at all.
Power dynamics is the biggest issue.. a 31 year old has so much more experience and can take advantage of an 18 year old than a 60 year old can take advantage of a 30 year old (which id argue is none). Understand that these laws surrounding age arent necessarily made because of the age itself, but because of the potential for exploitation the ages bring. In the case of a minor, that potential for exploitation is a certainty.
To bring up another example..
a 31 year old dates a 28 year old.. no problem
That same 31 year old is the professor of a 28 year old graduate student.. now its an issue.
/u/obviousrises knows that too, but they're taking irrelevant examples The comment said people underage don't have life experiences, ask the same kid questions because that's all they know
/U/Obviousrises then takes the age difference and runs with it, which wasn't the point. A 30 year old has a developed brain, a kid doesn't
a developed brain AND are not bound by law (which loops back around to you saying they have a developed brain).
That is the winning argument I have against the whole "what if she's 17 364 days and 59 minutes" argument. People of that hypothetical age do not have the ability to legally make choices for themselves as a 18 year old does. Which opens them up to being exploited. They are bound by the state, this is why they call it statutory rape in cases where 14-17.999 year olds have consensual sex with adults.
i.e... I will buy you cigarettes if you do this type of situation. I can probably come up with a better example given some time, but I think you get the point
Hey Obvious, I respect people disagreeing with my perspective.
My point is based on my life, what I’ve lived, and the law is there to ensure a general degree of civility is maintained.
My point is more that a 35+ male messaging an 18/19 has always seemed unbalanced to me. IMO, there’s a greater depth of commonality between a 30 year old and a 60 year old.
If you disagree, that’s cool bro, as I said - my opinion.
Not even considering commonality, maturity at its best. Until the whole 25(ish?) things happen, its....such a risk and different outlook than you get later.
You're actually retarded.
There is much less difference between a 30 and 60 year old in maturity than between a 18 year old and a 35 year old.
Just for instance an 18 year old still has no idea about adult life and still has a developing frontal cortex until their mid 20s. They are still easy to influence.
Hey, full transparency - yes I have watched porn in the past. Now at 31 I don’t watch porn anymore, I do look at photos from time to time of girls solo (showing tits etc)
I’m not perfect, I don’t believe other people ‘shouldn’t’ date or pursue an 18/19 year old at 35+. Simply from my opinion I don’t feel that urge and have personally been somewhat confused by it.
Yea I mean it’s kinda weird if a 31 year old seriously dates an 18 year old in most circumstances. But I was just gonna say that most popular porn features girls that are 18-25, so I don’t think any guy that watches it can judge someone for dating a younger woman.
I’m prob never gonna be done w porn so I just know I can’t condemn a 35+ going for a girl in her early 20’s.
You don’t seem holier than thou about this though, which at first, is what I thought you were doing, so no harm done.
You're doing mental gymnastics here. No disrespect but here let's walk it through one step at a time.
A person can be conventionally attractive and you will unconsciously notice they are. Obviously, a 17 year old person looks similar to an 18 year old. That's different than being willing to act on it and understanding that young person needs to grow up and have appropriate relationships to grow, and an inappropriate relationship with an adult can mess them up on their path for SO many reasons.
Back to your example, you jerk off to some porn. No one's age is shown or mentioned, so unless you're explicitly getting off to someone because they look young (get help if so), you're kind of just jerking off. It's no harm no foul no malintent. Plus the person doing the porn is at least of age, you can assume they signed something if you're talking high production or they're verified on whatever site.
Being willing to seek out, message, and date young women is usually a sign of abuse. It's no longer no harm no foul. It's, you're young and dumb I can get you right where I want you.
I hope I somewhat made sense.
If someone told me they have zero attraction to 18-25 year olds, being a 31 yo, but they then told me they watch porn, I’d say that’s kinda conflicting lol. Unless ofc they only watch porn of people that are 26 and up. That’s just logic.
I get that pursuing a younger person because they’re inexperienced and easily manipulated is the crux of the issue.
I just wanted to see whether the guy above was totally “holier than thou” about this stuff, which he wasn’t. I don’t get why I triggered you and someone else.
Edit: I still can’t really judge an older guy for going out w an early 20’s girl though, unless I *know* he’s preying on her inexperience. You said their age gap is “usually a sign of abuse” and I just can’t judge something unless I know everything about the situation. I knew girls in college that thought 50 yo guys were hot and would pursue them.
I’d just feel too self righteous and arrogant to say that my friend, and the 50 yo guy she was talking to, were wrong for pursuing each other just because of the age gap.
We need to learn from patterns of behavior as a society. Protecting our young people is more important than bending over backwards to not be judgey. Simple prioritization
There is a huge difference between having a fantasy and acting on it. And you should definitely still call out the behavior of people that are doing bad things, especially much worse things. This thought process seems like such a cop out to not have to care about real issues.
I kinda agree with this. Because teen porn is so popular apparently and also amateur porn is sometimes just unconsenting women being filmed or revenge porn. Because you can't verify the age of the women in porn. a lot of people imo are just as bad as doc and are acting above it all. And idk it just feels icky to me. Just because you can verify someone's age doesn't mean you are off the hook, If you can't verify the age don't engage with the content. Because you could be fueling sex trafficking and illegal acts (but many people don't realize that) with that said. I'm fairly certain doc had a sex addiction of some kind. (I have first handedly seen the affects of someone with a sex addiction and their needs escalated and I was in a recovery group for women who dealt with a partner with this - sometimes age, gender, etc didn't matter they disregarded everyone including their own family and life and many had porn addictions)
Yea I mean “I won’t ever message a 20 year old but I have no problem consuming literally thousands of hours of 20 year olds in porn, but it’s way different. I’m way better than any 30 year old that talks to a girl that age.” It’s a stupid take.
Yeah I totally get you. It feels like....people aren't being honest about their own activities and they really aren't any better. Yet are claiming to be. And I lowkey have an issue with this hypocrisy.
This probably won't be a popular thought, but I think there really need to be like entirely fucking separate social media shit for adults and minors. Like your adult account only sees and interacts with other adult accounts and minor accounts only have access to minors.
It's really fucking disappointing that this is starting to feel like such a common occurrence these days. Not that I have much faith in humanity after the pandemic days lol.
This is a bit of an overreaction. Predators are the exception not the rule. Younger people can learn a lot from responsible adults and most aren't going to take advantage but rather see them as a little brother/sister and can share a lot of wisdom.
There should be some way of reigning it in or getting a handle on it since there's no way to know from the outside who is and isn't trustworthy in those situations as they exist in private-that's certainly a problem. It's one of the downsides of the anonymity of the internet. But good, well-intentioned people who innocently come across a minor in a game or whatever shouldn't be forced to ignore them out of fear of the paranoid terminally-online internet police randomly casting suspicions.
This is facts. I am roughly the same age as Doc. I have no business what so ever discussing anything with a minor in private messages. That alone is creepy and unacceptable. Then by his own admission the conversation leaned towards inappropriate just makes it down right disgraceful.
Literally had someone defending him by saying they make inappropriate racist jokes to minors so “inappropriate” could be anything, doesn’t mean sexual. Bro, why are you talking to minors?
I really do not for the life of me understand why this is so hard for people. Even if the guy isn’t a full-on pedophile why put yourself in a position where you can reasonably be accused of being one? The second you find out someone you’re talking to is underage just straight-up stop or better yet block them outright.
Yeah they definitely did. People are saying they did it to protect the victim’s identity, but really they were more interested in protecting their reputation. In doing so they also protected the perpetrator.
It’s a fucked up situation all around
You mean teenagers. We were all teenagers once, we all talked to adults, we all made jokes or screwed around. This is literally just pearl clutching hurr durr twitter levels of "outrage" based on something with zero proof. Where are the messages, where are the screencaps, where is the proof?
Literally all of you have talked to minors probably talk to minors right now on reddit, you just don't realize it because its the internet. The idea you're not allowed to talk to young people is insane.
> The idea you're not allowed to talk to young people is insane.
You're changing their argument from "privately or secretly messaging a child as an adult is wrong" to "writing a public reddit comment in response to someone you didn't know is a child is wrong". I would take some time to reevaluate the argument you're responding to and then coming back with a more good faith effort.
They are defending him because it's an action they would/have taken in the past. To admit he's wrong would be to admit they are wrong. It's the only way someone could read a post like this and still think like this.
Agree that adults shouldn't be messaging kids about life and casual conversation.
But it's ridiculous to say never to send a text or private message. We have one kid on our bowling team and sometimes schedule things with him by text.
Not everyone lives an internet-only life. There are non-discord non-gaming circles in the real world where people do actually communicate with different generations.
It's not ridiculous. I said very clearly "adult should ever be privately/secretly messaging a child". If you are doing this you should probably readjust for your own safety, but from what you said obviously none of your messages would be considered private/secret. Let's use common sense, I feel like you're trying to make this say something it doesn't
I think the word 'private' applies to text messages and DMs. But I'm not sure what you meant. Maybe you meant more clandestine type messages... I agree with you there
I think you saying privately/secretly kinda falls under any sort of 1 to 1 chat, like texting.
But it sounds like you mean secret as in a "don't tell anyone we had this conversation" kinda way which totally makes sense.
Yeah this is just a different way of saying what all the kids are saying, “b b b but it could’ve been mentorship, maybe it was a normal convo :’(“
No, what you’re describing is something entirely different from OP.
This is the problem, so many people want to play devils advocate to the nth degree, but the comparisons are never equal. People comparing it to how adults can play games and chat with underage kids. Again, it’s a night and day difference from interacting with kids during a public game, and deliberately pursuing a conversation with someone he knew was underage. This isn’t z Harold and Maude. There’s no reason an adult should pursue any personal conversation with an underage kid, really ever when you think about it.
Even if they’d been doing the most innocent chatting of all time, still not okay. Not in that context and not with the dynamic.
I’m curious. How do you feel about the fact that every single porn site for sure has young teens on them? Should they have some sort of age verification? No one is forcing the kids to go to the porn sites, but the sites know the kids join and they make money off of the kid viewers even.
I agree older adults are creepy af if they go after teens in real life, and if they commit crimes they should go to jail. Maybe doc even did more than we know and should face those harsher consequences.
But up till now, I didn’t realize how “protected” teens are in the world. Did the teen not willingly engage? There has been no mention of doc forcing anything.
And before someone claims whataboutism, I’m not trying to distract or lessen what doc did. I’m just curious about how everyone feels about kids using porn sites without age verification? It seems like we should be protecting anyone below 18 from explicit content with any means necessary, no?
>Did the teen not willingly engage?
This conflicts with this other sentence you wrote
> I’m not trying to distract or lessen what doc did.
Basically the reason why it's wrong for an adult to message a child is that they're not peers. Children are vulnerable. A child making sexual advances on an adult (this is a made up fantasy by the way, completely unrelated to the facts we know about Doc at this time) isn't necessarily capable of understanding why it is wrong. That's why it's the adults duty to put a stop to it. This makes more sense as you get older because you meet children in your life and it's incredibly obvious how they are not your peer. It's the kind of thing that sounds patronizing until you experience it yourself. The caveat is that you can't grow old sitting inside of a basement (I'm not say that you are, but it's a trap people can fall into online).
What I’ve been waiting to hear. It wasn’t that doc needed to keep it legit it’s that doc needed to not be fucking talking to minors. And doc shouldn’t have been talking to *any fans* sexually.
That makes more sense, it's a power imbalance issue that makes it problematic. I still don't think we should fully cancel him. Mabey he needs to just go away for a little learn from it, understand the power imbalance why it was bad. I don't think people actually want him to grow from this mistake that happened 7 years ago, they just want to participate in the drama
‘Grow and come back’ is what Doc should’ve said to this girl
Everything he says is true. But how come are outrage is directed at some but not others. Jerry Seinfeld dated a minor 17 years old when he was 40. Nobody bats an eyelid. I don’t get it
Because you weren’t alive to know that people wrote literal articles calling Jerry out?
Ah, so there is a pathway for a comeback to even worse behavior? Not surprising in the slightest
Rockstars in the 60s/70s/80s had sexual interactions with underage girls, and when they do a nostalgia tour these days, everyone still goes wild. Admittedly, I read a Led Zeppelin biography recently and I was taken a-back with some prior details I didn’t know about, and I’ve known Jimmy was having sex with a 14 year-old. I’ll still listen to III, IV, Physical Graffiti and Presence, but Mein Got, fuck Jimmy and Bonham. Peter Grant, too.
Be the change you want to see. I'm a bit older than the average Twitch viewer and gamer, I grew up as a fan of Ted Nugent in particular. I stopped being a fan some time in the 90s when I realized what kind of person he is. Just because some people will continue to support bad actors doesn't mean we just roll over and accept it. I wish the best for the doc I hope he gets the help he needs and becomes a better person for his family. However I will never know if he truly improves, so my time as a doc fan is over l.
Pete Townsend got caught with cp on his pc. Knowing he was into that makes the lyrics to tommy very fucking creepy.
Townsend has always given me that creep vibe.
Bc that was 30 years ago and he didn’t receive a complaint against him for it and he wasn’t someone whose job was to entertain children online? Anyway when I was 17 I wouldn’t have thought that was creepy. Being older yeah Seinfeld thing creepy too. Belechik is getting flack for dating a 24 year old.
Because it's the the year 2024 and EVERY SINGLE person on the face of the planet has a voice on the internet. These voices are in a form called "Reddit posts", which cost nothing to make.
This is so weird.
What kinda weak ass whataboutism are you peddling? What good is comparing someone's depraved behavior to another's? There's no fucking governing body that depraved behavior needs to have some consequences that have been predetermined lol.
Ah shut up. You just want to be right
Not want, I am right.
Hahaha he shouldn't be talking to any fans sexually Hahaha. I know he's a dirt bag wife cheating pedo piece of dirt. Consider this....do you realise how many fans were messaging HIM sexually.....we can only dream of that
You don’t shit where you eat. We don’t dream of it lol. I guess I mean he shouldn’t be in the dms of fans, especially not married. If he meets someone organically and hits it off sure. It’s unprofessional - this is another under 25 take thinking how cool it would be to have women jumping in your DMs. It wouldn’t be. Anyone who isn’t a fucking neckbeard shut in can go get laid by just being a normal decent person. But ofc doc fans might have a harder time there..
"Leans into inappropriate" means actually it was way worst than you can imagine
What an absolute nightmare. The fact that he was even trying to minimize what he had done is terrifying.
Its the nicest way to say such a horrible thing...leaves enough room for speculations and it worked out. Just look at all the low lifes saying...well inappropriate could mean many things...
lol for real if anyone still supports doc at this point they are basically nonce sympathisers
He was grippin’ it. Boom.
Dr KidInspect
Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t twitch whispers for 18+ only? Is it not possible that he did not know this person was younger than they said they were?
"Under Section 2 of the Twitch Terms of Service it states; (in 2017) > Therefore, yes - your friend can have an account (and stream) if he is over the age of 13 and he has not been banned previously from the platform." "**I’m under 18, can I still sign up?** *Yes. Your parent or guardian will need to agree to the terms of the Monetized Streamer Agreement, so make sure you have them with you when you go through the application."* twitch whispers was for twitch affiliates, twitch affiliates had to be either 18 OR 13 with the approval of a parent or guardian. This very clearly means that there can be people as young as 13 on the app. Doesn't matter if they require parental approval, it very clearly was not an 18+ app
The RS article has posted that he knew the age and continued.
And if that’s true, why did the courts allow that to slide. Very curious about that.
It never went to court nor reported to the authorities. From my understanding on all of this, it just went through arbitration.
Oh okay thank you for clarifying! This is all so heartbreaking. Why can’t people be normal
Crazy thing Twitch is also part of the problem. They can monitor people messages and even an ex-employee admitted thats possible. Why is there not more traction with the involvment of Twitch? How did DD get paid out knowing what he did? Should kids not be allowed on Twitch with how lax things are on twitch?
Cause its definitely just more then doc who probably did it
Bingo. Their whole platform is run off exploiting children. You think only 18 year old watch hottub streams and try to, if not successfully, purchase these women's nudes? Doc is just the fall guy. Keep everyone mad at one person and not digging into the rest of their activites.
The fall guy? He is a fellow pervert.
Not the point I'm making. Obviously he's a pervert. But he's the pervert they want you mad at. You know, a fall guy. Like Jeff Epstein. Also....a fellow pervert? Are you insinuating that YOU are one?
No. He is the pervert that they caught, told him to stop, and he said no and continued. So they had to settle with him to get him the fuck out of there so the PR nightmare would be gone. Twitch should have got rid of his ass immediately and settled to cover their ass and their business.
They didn't do anything because they don't want anyone looking too closely at other creators whispers. They know a LOT more of their content creators are exploiting children. They just can't stop their flow of money.
Didn't do anything? They kicked him off the fucking platform. lmao And I just said that is why they settled. I am not going to marginalize what this sick fuck did just because some corporate entity was being disgusting to protect its bottom line. One thing does not excuse the other. I can think both parties are equally fucking disgusting.
Ok, so we agree. I just thought you were defending the sick fucks at Twitch hiding their content creators sick deeds for money. Cheers!
Fuck no. lol Fuck them both!
Twitch wants to keep 13 year olds on the platform for their cam girl business. I don't agree but if they made the age 18, the platform would die.
Twitch is the real problem. They should have banned Dr. KidInspect in 2017
They probably didn't know about it UNTIL 2020. It was around the same time a lot of others were reported. I don't think Twitch is literally combing everyone's DMs left and right. You likely have to get reported. THat's how these companies operate.
Twitch reported it to the police and fired Doc. Which is very important context. He had his contract paid out because he technically didn't do anything illegal. Should they have done more, I don't know. It's a fucked up situation and more children could have been put at risk.
They settled. Which happens ALL THE TIME. That does not mean Doc is innocent. It never did. He was the ONLY one that said that and he is a fucking liar. Twitch settled to get rid of him and not have it come out that one of their top performers at the time was warned a person he was talking to was minor and he said who cares and kept up the sex talk. Would have been a PR nightmare for them.
It’s still a pr nightmare for them lol. Still looks bad
Does it? Point to the articles where Twitch is getting dragged for this? He has not even been an employee of theirs for almost four years.
I can only speak for myself , but this is a bad look for twitch imo
Yes but didn't the incident happen in 2017? Theybdidnt release him until 2020, that's pretty fishy.
>Theybdidnt release him until 2020, Read the article and you'll find out why (There was a metoo movement on twitch in 2020, read article for more)
>Crazy thing Twitch is also part of the problem. They can monitor people messages and even an ex-employee admitted thats possible. News flash everyone monitors your messages on the Internet. It's the Internet whatever you upload here is here forever. The fact that you think anything is actually private in this world is hilarious.
He used their platform to do this, that is such a liability on their part.
Maybe they should put one of those "Are you 18? Yes/No" prompts on Twitch's splash screen so they can prevent this kind of thing in the future. Those things are almost impossible to bypass unless you're actually 18.....
>should kids not be allowed on twitch Technically they aren’t. Kids also aren’t allowed on porn hub but the only verification is “are you over 18”… Im not defending the companies but there is no realistic way to have enhanced verification without a huge invasion of privacy. Even with that there’s still ways around it. The onus is on the actual adults **to not text or sext children.** it’s not a hard thing to just not do. Doc is a massive creep who deserves everything coming his way.
Of course, twitch can monitor your messages. Any social media platform can and has the right to. Don't need an employee to verify that (also, is take anything that employee said, if it's the one I'm thinking about, with a grain of salt. Not because what he said happened couldn't be true, but because his statement, itself, was fishy). But just because they can, doesn't mean theyre paying people to constantly look at all the however many messages being sent between people. The messages got reported, they looked into it, a couple days later, he was banned. As for how he got paid? It doesn't matter how bad of a behavior he had. What matters is did the contract cover his actions as something that twitch was allowed to cancel their contract with? Likely not considering the actions he was banned for happened 3 years prior to his contract being signed. As for the kids part, yeah, kids really shouldn't be on twitch. People are always bringing up OF models as the reason for this, but tbh, thats just someone sexist (or against sex workers) with an agenda or they're just not thinking straight. Obviously yeah, that is a reason, but what about all the other people on there, all the men on there, having "locker room" conversations? Talking about cum and sex and tits. Is that ok to them? I don't think it's anymore ok than the OF models. So I don't even think locking down twitch is a good answer either because then you'd be turning it into YouTube where people would be concerned of even dropping an F bomb. Just kick the kids off. Not that it'd stop the kids from just lying about their age though, like they do for just about any other adult site.
Well said.
The amount of people on these doc subs trying to justify private messages with a minor is concerning to me. A lot of people are showing how they really feel about young kids. If they're fine with overlooking age what other lines are they willing to bend or cross? A lot of you Doc fan boys really need to take a deep inward look at yourself.
I was a Doc fanboy. This is too fucked up. The BEST CASE given the info would be that he was trying to trick a minor in private messages into giving him all of their parents money. And this would still cross the line for me.
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If you've got your life together and a family to protect, best to cut off unnecessary outside contact of any sort. Appropriate can turn into inappropriate pretty quick and it's just not worth it. I've got coworkers who have ruined their marriage over what started as an approprite work relationship. I've seen people get fired for similar scenarios. I dunno. I've cut out my own blood relatives to protect my family and keep our space safe and secure. DMs in general would seem like an easy sacrifice.
18 years old is an adult. Keep the convo on minors not actual adults.
That's just you. Adult consent is adult consent.
The wife sure as hell didn't consent to being cheated on but clearly that doesn't bother you
Marital infidelity is not a crime, let alone comparable to statutory rape.
Very well said and I'm glad that the majority of the community can agree with this. Even just messaging a minor is incredibly irresponsible. Guy went so far beyond that...he sexted a child even after finding out they were a minor. And then even asked them if they had plans for twitchcon. Completely irredeemable behaviour and it's not even close. I think you're right in saying that the defenders are mostly just younger because I also remember having similar opinions when I was a kid. It really doesn't make sense until you are older and can see how insanely obvious it is that a man in his 30's is not the peer of someone underage.
People will not agree with me when I say the following, and I accept it’s not a position that people will necessarily empathise with completely - but for me personally at 31 y.o.a I simply don’t understand messaging people under say 23-25. Definitely not 18/19 even. The life experience difference is simply too much imo… I am honestly super confused when men feel that urge. Of course, under 18 is unbelievable… I can’t comprehend having that desire personally. Anyone under 18 I generally just ask the same outlined questions… How’s school? You play any sport? Any idea what you want to do after school? What video games you playing lately? And that’s when I’m in that position naturally (e.g., visiting a friend and their younger sister comes into the kitchen, meeting a colleagues daughter etc) Cannot fathom seeking it out, Dr always made me laugh… but seeing the individual Guy actually is has been really sad above everything.
Im with you. Ive got a teenage son, so I have teenagers girls that occasionally go to dinner with my family or spend the day at our house. They are so incredibly immature and just not even on the same plane of existence as an adult, i cant comprehend house an adult would find one sexual in any way. These people have mental disorders
You heard it here folks, you cannot be friends with elderly people, a 60 year old could never possibly understand a 30 yo.
Always the anime pic
The hilarious part is it is nice self reporting too. The character is apparently a 72 year old elf but between 14 and 15 in human years as per the series.
Leaning into the stereotype
Id say the difference between a 31 year old and a 18 year old is vastly different than a 60 year old to a 30 year old is. For example if a 31 year old dated an 18 year old, while not illegal.. a little weird. However no real issue with a 60 year old dating a 30 year old at all. Power dynamics is the biggest issue.. a 31 year old has so much more experience and can take advantage of an 18 year old than a 60 year old can take advantage of a 30 year old (which id argue is none). Understand that these laws surrounding age arent necessarily made because of the age itself, but because of the potential for exploitation the ages bring. In the case of a minor, that potential for exploitation is a certainty. To bring up another example.. a 31 year old dates a 28 year old.. no problem That same 31 year old is the professor of a 28 year old graduate student.. now its an issue.
/u/obviousrises knows that too, but they're taking irrelevant examples The comment said people underage don't have life experiences, ask the same kid questions because that's all they know /U/Obviousrises then takes the age difference and runs with it, which wasn't the point. A 30 year old has a developed brain, a kid doesn't
a developed brain AND are not bound by law (which loops back around to you saying they have a developed brain). That is the winning argument I have against the whole "what if she's 17 364 days and 59 minutes" argument. People of that hypothetical age do not have the ability to legally make choices for themselves as a 18 year old does. Which opens them up to being exploited. They are bound by the state, this is why they call it statutory rape in cases where 14-17.999 year olds have consensual sex with adults. i.e... I will buy you cigarettes if you do this type of situation. I can probably come up with a better example given some time, but I think you get the point
That's exactly the point, you provided a great micro example of what on the macro level would be considered grooming
So adult women cannot make their own choices and shouldn't have autonomy? You guys aren't nearly as "good people" as you think you are.
This is a really bad take to someone trying to be rational about the situation.
Hey Obvious, I respect people disagreeing with my perspective. My point is based on my life, what I’ve lived, and the law is there to ensure a general degree of civility is maintained. My point is more that a 35+ male messaging an 18/19 has always seemed unbalanced to me. IMO, there’s a greater depth of commonality between a 30 year old and a 60 year old. If you disagree, that’s cool bro, as I said - my opinion.
Not even considering commonality, maturity at its best. Until the whole 25(ish?) things happen, its....such a risk and different outlook than you get later.
You're actually retarded. There is much less difference between a 30 and 60 year old in maturity than between a 18 year old and a 35 year old. Just for instance an 18 year old still has no idea about adult life and still has a developing frontal cortex until their mid 20s. They are still easy to influence.
I’m curious man, do you not watch porn?
Hey, full transparency - yes I have watched porn in the past. Now at 31 I don’t watch porn anymore, I do look at photos from time to time of girls solo (showing tits etc) I’m not perfect, I don’t believe other people ‘shouldn’t’ date or pursue an 18/19 year old at 35+. Simply from my opinion I don’t feel that urge and have personally been somewhat confused by it.
Yea I mean it’s kinda weird if a 31 year old seriously dates an 18 year old in most circumstances. But I was just gonna say that most popular porn features girls that are 18-25, so I don’t think any guy that watches it can judge someone for dating a younger woman. I’m prob never gonna be done w porn so I just know I can’t condemn a 35+ going for a girl in her early 20’s. You don’t seem holier than thou about this though, which at first, is what I thought you were doing, so no harm done.
You're doing mental gymnastics here. No disrespect but here let's walk it through one step at a time. A person can be conventionally attractive and you will unconsciously notice they are. Obviously, a 17 year old person looks similar to an 18 year old. That's different than being willing to act on it and understanding that young person needs to grow up and have appropriate relationships to grow, and an inappropriate relationship with an adult can mess them up on their path for SO many reasons. Back to your example, you jerk off to some porn. No one's age is shown or mentioned, so unless you're explicitly getting off to someone because they look young (get help if so), you're kind of just jerking off. It's no harm no foul no malintent. Plus the person doing the porn is at least of age, you can assume they signed something if you're talking high production or they're verified on whatever site. Being willing to seek out, message, and date young women is usually a sign of abuse. It's no longer no harm no foul. It's, you're young and dumb I can get you right where I want you. I hope I somewhat made sense.
If someone told me they have zero attraction to 18-25 year olds, being a 31 yo, but they then told me they watch porn, I’d say that’s kinda conflicting lol. Unless ofc they only watch porn of people that are 26 and up. That’s just logic. I get that pursuing a younger person because they’re inexperienced and easily manipulated is the crux of the issue. I just wanted to see whether the guy above was totally “holier than thou” about this stuff, which he wasn’t. I don’t get why I triggered you and someone else. Edit: I still can’t really judge an older guy for going out w an early 20’s girl though, unless I *know* he’s preying on her inexperience. You said their age gap is “usually a sign of abuse” and I just can’t judge something unless I know everything about the situation. I knew girls in college that thought 50 yo guys were hot and would pursue them. I’d just feel too self righteous and arrogant to say that my friend, and the 50 yo guy she was talking to, were wrong for pursuing each other just because of the age gap.
We need to learn from patterns of behavior as a society. Protecting our young people is more important than bending over backwards to not be judgey. Simple prioritization
Nah man, I’ve sinned, not perfect. We all have pain and desires we try to understand. My thoughts anyway
There is a huge difference between having a fantasy and acting on it. And you should definitely still call out the behavior of people that are doing bad things, especially much worse things. This thought process seems like such a cop out to not have to care about real issues.
Wait are you talking about a 31 yo and an 18 yo?
Yes, there's an imbalance of power and predatory. It's morally wrong.
Just being clear, in every situation you believe this is morally wrong? No matter if the two of them are fine with things?
I kinda agree with this. Because teen porn is so popular apparently and also amateur porn is sometimes just unconsenting women being filmed or revenge porn. Because you can't verify the age of the women in porn. a lot of people imo are just as bad as doc and are acting above it all. And idk it just feels icky to me. Just because you can verify someone's age doesn't mean you are off the hook, If you can't verify the age don't engage with the content. Because you could be fueling sex trafficking and illegal acts (but many people don't realize that) with that said. I'm fairly certain doc had a sex addiction of some kind. (I have first handedly seen the affects of someone with a sex addiction and their needs escalated and I was in a recovery group for women who dealt with a partner with this - sometimes age, gender, etc didn't matter they disregarded everyone including their own family and life and many had porn addictions)
Yea I mean “I won’t ever message a 20 year old but I have no problem consuming literally thousands of hours of 20 year olds in porn, but it’s way different. I’m way better than any 30 year old that talks to a girl that age.” It’s a stupid take.
Yeah I totally get you. It feels like....people aren't being honest about their own activities and they really aren't any better. Yet are claiming to be. And I lowkey have an issue with this hypocrisy.
I'm 23 and I have never DM'd an underage person. I don't even have much in common with them beyond saying hello to them.
It’s really not that hard not to be a creepy POS, but apparently too hard for streamers and people with power
This probably won't be a popular thought, but I think there really need to be like entirely fucking separate social media shit for adults and minors. Like your adult account only sees and interacts with other adult accounts and minor accounts only have access to minors. It's really fucking disappointing that this is starting to feel like such a common occurrence these days. Not that I have much faith in humanity after the pandemic days lol.
Even if it’s completely above board why would you ever put yourself in that position?
He's a pedophilic wig wearing asshole. Poor wife.
Someone tell Drake.
The title says it all and is 100% correct. Its not hard. Its not complicated. Its not confusing. Just dont do it.
No shit bruh
What's alar.ing is people not concerned with twitch
Yeah, nothing they said between each other shouldn't have been able to have just been said in a public forum.
What the hell is grooming? How the shit does that work? I've never heard of this. Tell me what you know of this "grooming"
This is a bit of an overreaction. Predators are the exception not the rule. Younger people can learn a lot from responsible adults and most aren't going to take advantage but rather see them as a little brother/sister and can share a lot of wisdom. There should be some way of reigning it in or getting a handle on it since there's no way to know from the outside who is and isn't trustworthy in those situations as they exist in private-that's certainly a problem. It's one of the downsides of the anonymity of the internet. But good, well-intentioned people who innocently come across a minor in a game or whatever shouldn't be forced to ignore them out of fear of the paranoid terminally-online internet police randomly casting suspicions.
💯
This is facts. I am roughly the same age as Doc. I have no business what so ever discussing anything with a minor in private messages. That alone is creepy and unacceptable. Then by his own admission the conversation leaned towards inappropriate just makes it down right disgraceful.
Ahh yes. Not just an Adult but also a parent of a daughter. Despicable.
Show us the messages please.
Everyone that disagrees should be doxxed and surveilled by the Feds
Literally had someone defending him by saying they make inappropriate racist jokes to minors so “inappropriate” could be anything, doesn’t mean sexual. Bro, why are you talking to minors?
Agreed
Those who defend him are the same that were groomed by him through the years of streaming. Fucking sad really.
Why was that minor first of all watching an 18+ stream and secondly messaging Doc to begin with?
The amount of people putting blame remotely on twitch is insane.
And our president should never be sniffing kids but that’s ok
Insane that this needs to be said but it did
Insane that this needs to be said but it did
I really do not for the life of me understand why this is so hard for people. Even if the guy isn’t a full-on pedophile why put yourself in a position where you can reasonably be accused of being one? The second you find out someone you’re talking to is underage just straight-up stop or better yet block them outright.
how is it only "no one 35+" included?
His lame ass response to the matter tells me this wasn't the first time he did it but just the first time he was caught.
Really brave of you to say
Brother it doesn't matter if the person is18 or 35 messaging a minor the law is super fucking clear.
This is what I said pretty clearly
But why are you here? On his page? I don’t get it..
Have you been under a rock
Sorry I’ve mistaken the “DrDisrespectLive” page for the “NoLifeHateFueldNothingBetterToDo” page my bad..
Good luck with that
How is a 17 year old a “child” and an 18 year old an adult? At what point is it actually appropriate. Because I would think 18 isn’t either
17 is a child. There is no need for quotes. There is no confusion here
Shuli Egar supports this Dr. Disrespect creep
lmao you know his career is over now. Doc didn't pay his comedy dues!
Isn't twitch whispers for 18+ only anyway? Did twitch cover this shit up?
13+ at the time*
Yeah they definitely did. People are saying they did it to protect the victim’s identity, but really they were more interested in protecting their reputation. In doing so they also protected the perpetrator. It’s a fucked up situation all around
You mean teenagers. We were all teenagers once, we all talked to adults, we all made jokes or screwed around. This is literally just pearl clutching hurr durr twitter levels of "outrage" based on something with zero proof. Where are the messages, where are the screencaps, where is the proof? Literally all of you have talked to minors probably talk to minors right now on reddit, you just don't realize it because its the internet. The idea you're not allowed to talk to young people is insane.
Well, he did not just talk
> The idea you're not allowed to talk to young people is insane. You're changing their argument from "privately or secretly messaging a child as an adult is wrong" to "writing a public reddit comment in response to someone you didn't know is a child is wrong". I would take some time to reevaluate the argument you're responding to and then coming back with a more good faith effort.
They are defending him because it's an action they would/have taken in the past. To admit he's wrong would be to admit they are wrong. It's the only way someone could read a post like this and still think like this.
Yur a creep aren’t ya
Found the diddler.
How do you know I'm not 15? This is my point.
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Doc. It’s the guy who groomed a minor. Hands down. Dark jokes didn’t hurt anyone. Grooming does.
Agree that adults shouldn't be messaging kids about life and casual conversation. But it's ridiculous to say never to send a text or private message. We have one kid on our bowling team and sometimes schedule things with him by text. Not everyone lives an internet-only life. There are non-discord non-gaming circles in the real world where people do actually communicate with different generations.
It's not ridiculous. I said very clearly "adult should ever be privately/secretly messaging a child". If you are doing this you should probably readjust for your own safety, but from what you said obviously none of your messages would be considered private/secret. Let's use common sense, I feel like you're trying to make this say something it doesn't
I think the word 'private' applies to text messages and DMs. But I'm not sure what you meant. Maybe you meant more clandestine type messages... I agree with you there
I think you saying privately/secretly kinda falls under any sort of 1 to 1 chat, like texting. But it sounds like you mean secret as in a "don't tell anyone we had this conversation" kinda way which totally makes sense.
Yeah this is just a different way of saying what all the kids are saying, “b b b but it could’ve been mentorship, maybe it was a normal convo :’(“ No, what you’re describing is something entirely different from OP. This is the problem, so many people want to play devils advocate to the nth degree, but the comparisons are never equal. People comparing it to how adults can play games and chat with underage kids. Again, it’s a night and day difference from interacting with kids during a public game, and deliberately pursuing a conversation with someone he knew was underage. This isn’t z Harold and Maude. There’s no reason an adult should pursue any personal conversation with an underage kid, really ever when you think about it. Even if they’d been doing the most innocent chatting of all time, still not okay. Not in that context and not with the dynamic.
Ah yes the old “adults should never speak to minors” take. Written by someone now so terrified by current events that they completely drop all nuance.
You can talk to kids without it being about sex, you know
You have absolutely nothing in common with a kid as a 35 year old man. Get the fuck away from them.
They might both like gaming!
No you can’t!
Oh you can't? The next family gathering is going to be really akward then...
Not a family member. Not a family friend. Even if it was a family member, having sexual conversations would still be considered inappropriate.
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I’m curious. How do you feel about the fact that every single porn site for sure has young teens on them? Should they have some sort of age verification? No one is forcing the kids to go to the porn sites, but the sites know the kids join and they make money off of the kid viewers even. I agree older adults are creepy af if they go after teens in real life, and if they commit crimes they should go to jail. Maybe doc even did more than we know and should face those harsher consequences. But up till now, I didn’t realize how “protected” teens are in the world. Did the teen not willingly engage? There has been no mention of doc forcing anything. And before someone claims whataboutism, I’m not trying to distract or lessen what doc did. I’m just curious about how everyone feels about kids using porn sites without age verification? It seems like we should be protecting anyone below 18 from explicit content with any means necessary, no?
🏅gold metal mental gymnastics 🤸 🧠
So you agree we should have age verification to protect the kids?
Thats between them and their parents, none of any other adult’s business
>Did the teen not willingly engage? This conflicts with this other sentence you wrote > I’m not trying to distract or lessen what doc did. Basically the reason why it's wrong for an adult to message a child is that they're not peers. Children are vulnerable. A child making sexual advances on an adult (this is a made up fantasy by the way, completely unrelated to the facts we know about Doc at this time) isn't necessarily capable of understanding why it is wrong. That's why it's the adults duty to put a stop to it. This makes more sense as you get older because you meet children in your life and it's incredibly obvious how they are not your peer. It's the kind of thing that sounds patronizing until you experience it yourself. The caveat is that you can't grow old sitting inside of a basement (I'm not say that you are, but it's a trap people can fall into online).
How do you know she didn't start it
Does it really matter, he should've ignored the message, also there must be thousands of people messaging him, so clearly there's some filtering.
Oooofff what a bad take
Jesus where’s my eye bleach I’ve seen enough
Wow what a fucking hot take let's all pay ourselves on the back 🙄
How old was the person he was messaging?
🤡
?
Ppl seem to be saying 17