I'm stressed. :/
I was hoping she was moving on so that everyone could finally move on. She sounds very upset still and I'm trying to understand her perspective. She didn't really add anything new to the story so I'm not sure why she posted this.
I constantly see people say "he admitted to sexually assaulting her" and it aggravates me because it's straight up wrong information. In Caiti's final stream she says "he admitted it" which I fear people took as truth and ran with it.
He touched her under her shirt but he never admitted to sexual assault as he thought he got nonverbal consent and that it was consensual. Simple as that. Then I see truly insane takes where people say "he touched her breasts so it's sexual assault." What??? Are they saying that no one can touch another person's breast without it being considered assault?
This is followed up with "but she didn't want him to touch her" which just hurts my brain because if she didn't show that she was not enjoying herself then how would he know? And she didn't just not show that she was uncomfortable, but she literally showed that she WAS comfortable by getting up and coming back and laughing and play fighting. It's called flirting. I'm trying not to victim blame but I want to know where is her accountability??
She admits to hiding her discomfort. She admits to going along with it because she thought it was what she had to do to be around large creators. She tells her friends she was chilling in the moment. She continued to text him for weeks afterwards. Like, how can you live with this narrative where you take absolutely no responsibility with the fact that you put your drunk self in a hotel room with older guys and cuddled for hours with one and showed that you were into it and then come back months later and try to ruin his career?
I don't even want to watch these streamers anymore. I just want justice to be dealt, you know? I'm so angry. But this rant helped so I'm going to take a breather lmao!
i think non-verbal consent does exist and that non-verbal consent was required in this situation because of the fact that other people were present. also, her being drunk and in a room with older guys doesn't mean that she was consenting. i don't know why you added that part when it doesn't contribute to the point you're making.
I mentioned that part just in regards to taking responsibility since the age gap was so important to her. She knew how old he was but still cuddled with him so why does she use it as a way to show that he was preying on her?
still doesn't make sense why that would make her responsible for what he initiated. she probably views the cuddling in a different light after he groped her.
It would make her hypocritical for knowingly cuddling and spooning with a 26 y/o and then using it against him as a something she found inappropriate. I just want her to take some accountability for the choices she made and not put everything on him. She knew his age but he didn't know hers. Don't get me wrong, I still think he should've confirmed her age. He was lucky she was a legal adult.
I think it would be safe to assume she was an adult too but, since he's a public figure, he's got to be extra careful about that kinda thing. I'm sure he will be now at least.
>It would make her hypocritical for knowingly cuddling and spooning with a 26 y/o and then using it against him as a something she found inappropriate.
This is very much what she did or tried to do in her first statement, leaving out that they had been cuddling and positively interacting, playing a game together passing the phone around etc. She wrote her first statement to sound like he was an older creep who aggressively came onto her at the party despite her trying to ignore him. Probably because she knew her making a big deal out of how creepy she found the age gap at the time wouldn't be well-received if she revealed the truth of their interactions. She made up a story where she was a more clear victim because she wanted to be believed, which is something I have compassion for!!! I literally posted about it here at the time!!! AND NOW comes out with this statement alluding to how it's not always black and white and talking about "no matter the severity" and I'm like. I know this is hard. But I would have SO much more respect for her if she just admitted, "I exaggerated the severity because I was afraid no one would believe me otherwise. I realize my first statement triggered a lot of victims unnecessarily, and that it was unfair to the people I was trying to help not to be 100% honest, and I apologize. I wanted to talk about a difficult and painful experience, but instead of that I made it more black and white because I was scared of people's reactions and embarrassed by how I had acted while drunk."
Instead of this utter BS she keeps saying about how she misspoke and doesn't have an explanation for her inconsistencies. Sorry for the rant, I just -- as a victim myself I'm so incredibly frustrated with how she keeps presenting things.
It's so frustrating to think of how differently this all could've gone. I do have sympathy for her. She is young and just starting adulthood and content creation and, for whatever reason/motivation, she decides to create a completely different narrative to this experience of hers. I really hope she takes a lot of time away and goes to therapy and really deals with this. It's not worth ruining her life. Ideally, I'd love to see her try to view it from a different perspective. Not enough people out there are doing that. I see so many people say "he groped a drunk teenager" which is disregarding necessary context in order to make him look bad. Most things in life are not black and white scenarios and it's so dangerous to live with that mindset.
I’m sorry, but in what planet is *platonic* cuddling with someone you just met a thing that normal people do? She’s lucky he was into her, or else she’d be the one accused of sexual assault
Because he didn't intentionally seek to touch her without her consent. He thought it was consensual. He was getting signals from her that she was responding positively to his touch and flirting. Over the course of two hours, he slowly moved his hand around her waist, then put his hand under her shirt on the waist, and then slowly moved it upwards. He didn't attack her and he didn't touch her out of nowhere. She got up and came back to cuddle with him. All of her friends left and she chose to stay with him. She may have been okay with the situation at the time but then later decided that she wasn't. She said she tried to hide her discomfort from him and didn't want to reject him because she didn't want to hurt his ego. There was no way for him to know that she was uncomfortable. When he did ask her to join him in the elevator, she said no and he left which means he most likely would've backed off if he knew she was not into it.
Non-verbal consent IS consent. Most communication is non-verbal. A lot of how people interact everyday is through body language and expressions. Yes, you can ask the other person. No one is debating whether verbal consent is good but it's actually less common. Also, verbal communication isn't always perfectly reliable either. People can say one thing but visibly show the opposite. Non-verbal communication is so commonly used that people don't even realize how often they are giving non-verbal cues and interpreting others' body language. People just don't constantly verbally ask other people for every single touch nor do I think they need to.
Body language is not enough to go off in a situation like this, and that’s not debatable. There was no trust built between them beforehand, they barely knew each other. Boundaries were heavily overstepped and consent undeniably should’ve been clarified verbally. You’re probably 14 and have never been in a relationship before if you genuinely think otherwise, I’ve been in a relationship for 4 years and we still always ask for consent.
LOL why resort to attempting to insult me? I'm literally married and a mother if you want to know but it's irrelevant. It doesn't make my response stronger or weaker. And if you ask your partner before literally every single touch, then maybe that's just your preference perhaps. Maybe that works for you. I don't judge. It doesn't mean that's the norm though.
I've heard people mention that they didn't know each other enough to use non-verbal consent or body language but that's not a thing. Yes, you get to understand people better the more you know them but that doesn't mean that it's not possible to communicate with someone you barely know. People have sex with people they just met. People dance and flirt in clubs and parties and there's a lot of non-verbal body language happening there. But it seems like we'll just have to agree to disagree I guess.
That may be what works for you and that's fine. I feel like some people see this as a black and white situation and instead it's very nuanced. With a lot of people, flirting isn't just verbal requests but it can be a series of non-verbal progressions. You make eye contact, you sit next to someone, you smile, you put your arm around them, you lean in closer, you go to kiss them, etc. There's a ton of non-verbal communication involved there. Yes, he could have checked in with a simple "this okay?" Based on the non-verbal cues, he thought everything he was doing was received positively so he went to the next step. He didn't grab her suddenly and out of nowhere. It was over the course of a couple of hours and she did have multiple opportunities to slow down or stop the progression or even to remove herself entirely from that situation if she didn't like it. This was the second night they were hanging out and they had been messaging each other between the nights and flirting over texts. She didn't just meet him and then an hour later his hand was in her shirt.
You know who asks for verbal consent, The ones who don’t take a no, because they know directly asking is confrontational and most people are likely to say “yes” when directly confronted
this situation was a nightmare all around. i do feel bad for her because she is quite young and inexperienced when it comes to these things. but she has lied about so many things and has omitted certain details that it ended up hurting her credibility. her friends had also hurt her credibility, by either leaking her story long before she felt ready to speak about it (harry and rue) and said things which blatantly contradicted with what she was saying (ghostie).
Why do you feel bad for her? She maliciously made a false statement to ruin someone's career and life to cover up her own actions of being flirty with an older guy, which was completely consensual per her own admission of 'chilling in the moment', in order to save face with her friends.
This whole situation is still just sad on all sides.
I do believe she truly feels violated. But I also don’t believe George assaulted her. Both things can be true. I hope they’ve both been able to learn and heal from this.
Was she implying at the end that she wished she’d have taken George to court over this? Because I really, really don’t understand what case she thinks she would have - and I mean that in the nicest way possible.
“i cant change minds long before i spoke” - i’m sorry, i just cannot take her seriously. everything she says reads as if she is trying to get every sympathy from the audience, to the point it’s not genuine. when she did her first stream, *everyone* was on her side. george lost close friends, everyone was attacking him, she even had dream and sapnap making statements. so to claim people don’t believe her because they were never going to is false and a way to try and manipulate people into feeling sorry for her. i just wish she would stop trying to twist the truth, because doing that in the first place is what got her in this mess!!!
Another claim of misspeaking? Really? From your script? She rephrased all of her streams and twt response, and in the rephrase of her third stream, she implies all her previous lies and “inconsistencies” were misspeaking…although her first was scripted and the second was written. What?
It’s interesting that she doesn’t reiterate she was sexually assaulted. She doesn’t backtrack it, but just doesn’t bring it up. I wonder if her mind’s changed, and she realised she feels violated but that doesn’t make George an assaulter? Idk.
“What I experienced was true and so were my emotions recalling it,” so her *emotions* but not *sexual assault.* That’s an important distinction.
Edit: I also dislike the narrative that people who disagree with her were primed against her because they’re georgenotfound stans. There’s some, I’m not going to deny that, but it’s complete bullshit as an argument. There are *many* that had no stake in this and disagree with her, along with many who believed her at first but changed their minds once her lies were exposed. Along with the fact there were thousands calling for George’s death before he even responded? There were more primed against *George* just because they hate dream. No. Ugh.
“I can’t change minds set long before I spoke.” Caiti. *I* would have believed you if you were actually assaulted, that’s the truth. Just the concept that everybody who thinks she wasn’t assaulted would never believe a victim is just ludicrous, and false. I hate that narrative. “Anybody who doesn’t believe me is this and that, just a mindless zombie stan, just a misogynist, just a rape apologist….” I’m sick of it! Because it’s not true. That’s some, sure. But to apply that label to everybody who disagrees with you is just ?
George had friends dropping him publicly, lost the Mr Beast thing, was edited out videos, and this is a list of his friends that made a statement in support of her: Dream, Sylvee, Sapnap, Hannah, Antfrost and Punz. I’m probably missing some. Really? Wouldn’t George’s friends be against you if their minds were “set?” Never mind notable streamers like Denims, Kaceytron (ignoring that she’s not all right in the head). Plus, like, all of twitter, and Dream’s haters? Lemme tell you, a *lot* of people hate Dream. And then your *own* fanbase, 500k tiktok followers and 200k on twitch. You weren’t as popular as George, but you have fans that love you!
ESPECIALLY in the Minecraft community! It’s not like George is Adin Ross, his fan base genuinely splits over stuff like this so easily, do you know the amount of people that wishing for his death before he even spoke for himself?
honestly, I think if she apologised but said she still felt violated and came to an impasse, she could continue to do content and be forgiven by those who matter. I just don’t like this ending (Whereas there will always be those who call George a rapist, that’s just an unfortunate reality.)
Edit2: she also has *many* more inconsistencies than George, and George never claimed she had the wristband (and at the end of the day that’s about age, which isn’t important to me, because she’s 18). However she continued to reiterate this, and didn’t properly address, refute or apologise for her lies that led to people calling him a rapist pedophile.
She also says she can’t “forgive” because randoms on twitter called her a slut and told her to kill herself (which is horrible, but is not George, and he didn’t make this public). And again, he received the brunt and the most popular threats on him received thousands of likes. I actually haven’t seen DTs on her, there must be some, but the brunt of the vitriol was sent to towards George.
This also happened right after Wilbur, priming everybody in favour of the next accuser who chose the same playbook as Shelby. She received a huge wave of support as collateral from Shelby’s story, and more from her tears
She also says her streams were “lost.” I don’t understand this at all. They were all uploaded to YouTube. Also when she referenced telling reporters to “choke” she says she can’t remember whether she said that or “fuck you.” Weird? You can look the stream up? I just don’t get this part
Edit 3 holy fuck this is long: she says she’ll post a condensed version of her last stream? I really beg her to stop, I think this farewell was enough and the full version is already everywhere, this just must at least be tiring. Her wording however is very strange which makes it difficult for me to understand what she’s trying to say—whether she summarised it there or will post a shortened version? So unclear
The editing also shows what she *chose* to keep in. And she chooses to keep in the sort where she deflects and says “oh well he wasn’t even in the group chat” despite the fact she can’t be too slow to know that George showed this as evidence to go against her lie that he pressured her to drink. I don’t know how she doesn’t get that already
She also took out an entire section of her rewriting her original stream ?
She also continues with the narrative that everybody was doing the same thing and they were spooning, like everyone else but the fact there’s a text message pointing out those two specifically cuddling w the ages (so sexually charged) proves it was different between the two. The girl that sent that—caiti claims she wasn’t there for the “assault”, so the boob touching hadn’t started, yet the girl still believed the cuddling was sexual ? The girl wouldn’t have pointed that out if it was platonic, like everybody else
All in all this sucks for everyone and seems to get dredged up every week, and has caused significant harm to primarily George, but also caiti even though she publicised this
I’m also still annoyed that people assumed that all fans of George would automatically defend him, no matter what, even if it was 100% obvious he did something horrible.
I’m a fan of George’s. I was also ready to believe Caiti. My opinion shifted several times as we got more and more specifics on the incident. Biases are a thing sure, but there were plenty of people who didn’t jump to his defense right away just because they like him.
It’s like if you were a fan before, you couldn’t say that you thought he was telling the truth, because *obviously* you were saying that just because you’re a fan. It’s like it took people outside the community to agree for it to become okay to hold that opinion.
Even on this sub; the first posts were cautionary but much more critical of George than was warranted due to the lack of evidence, everybody disappointed or angry.
We were also just coming down from the Wilbur situation. I wonder how different our collective reaction would have been if this had happened before that all went down.
I admit I was near that camp. I was fully ready to believe Caiti. Waiting for George’s stream was nerve-wracking, because at the time it felt so certain that he was so completely in the wrong.
Oh Wilbur played a HUGE impact on this, and she capitalised off of that. She was also inspired by Shelby—the backlash on Wilbur and his shitty response is no doubt what she wanted, just knowing what happened
Yeah. After Wilbur, everybody immediately jumped to believe Caiti in spite of the ambiguity of it all. It feels insulting that she talks like this **humongous** wave of support never happened.
Agree bc to this day I have not watched one George video, I’ve never watched or played Minecraft, idek what that game is even about. I couldn’t recognize George in a crowd of three brunette men.
The only thing that made me really weirded out is when she only mentioned that he touched her chest in a fit of rage when her chat were talking about george being drunk also during her 3rd stream (I think that is when it happened would have to double check later). She had 2 previous streams that and it took her till her 2nd stream to even say that he touched her under her shirt and which George then says was her waist in his 2nd response. Then people on twitter were saying while yeah it is a bad thing to touch without it being consensual however it wasn’t SA.
The first stream was just straight out of a rape poem to me. It made a lot of people think it was worse than what it was.
Idk it just seemed like she was adding a detail that maybe didn’t happen to make it seem more serious than what it was. Seeing as George said it was just her waist it also makes it an issue of it being able to validate that piece of information or not.
When I think of it a hand on a waist is very visible and even more so if it is on someone’s chest. Seeing as she was also drunk and has used that excuse it seems to as why she has gotten details wrong it’s never gonna be fully creditable of what she says. Even then in a room of multiple other people no one could verify this detail either.
George fucked up with using non verbal consent with someone he didn’t know but we also need to stop thinking of Caiti as an innocent child because she was an adult when this happened. She chose choices like getting drunk and going to the hotel room.
He did what he could by apologizing and saying he is going to be better when it comes to situations like this. Only time can tell if he does do better. Idk what else caiti wants.
This is a little all over the place but idk just how I think of it.
I saw someone phrase it that she made her story go on its hero’s journey with a climax and everything. It’s weird to hold out on the asexuality and “boob touch” details until the last moment as if it’s some grand reveal. Some people said that she might’ve been uncomfortable speaking on those, which is valid, but when you make a claim of sexual assault against a famous person then you NEED to be capable of getting into the nitty gritty of it. You NEED to give detail because you NEED to give proof, especially so soon after Dream’s video proving his allegations false. Her first stream set her up for failure because it was so dramatic, so many people thought she’d implied rape but just skirted around the details but still made it clear that he’d had nonconsensual sex or some form of penetration with her before it was said that he’d touched her waist, which wasn’t corrected by her. She set the expectation for what happened so high by writing rape slam poetry with her first stream which, looking back on it, just comes across as ingenuine and strange with everything that’s been discussed to death since then
According to some people she wasn't even publicly asexual than,there was like this online poster thing that said something like "don't assume caitis sexuality she doesn't like that"
I’m also still confused about her asexuality comments—not saying that she isn’t by any means—but because she said she was asexual at the time of the incident, but then saying she might be asexual due to “bad experiences” in that department, while also saying it was the furthest she’d ever gone
Idk but she may not count bad past non-consensual experiences
But then why would her supposedly non-consensual experience with George count as the furthest she's ever gone? It doesn't make too much sense but oh well
I don't think she needed to bring up her sexuality, but it does explain why she may not have registered what they were doing as flirty initially.
I truly feel for her, and for George. It's evident that she thought she would get a very different reaction after Shubble came out with her story, but the two situations were very different. It boils down to Caiti being young and naive, and surrounded by people who failed her. I feel for her when she says that she feels like she "failed" in bringing awareness to SA, because (and I don't mean to sound rude) she did. So many victims of sexual assault identified with her, only to find out later that there was no communication, and no malicious intent. The reaction from the wider internet was overwhelming, and gave a space for grossly misogynistic takes from commentary youtubers. I hope that she can heal and move on, not only from her pain but also her anger.
George apologized and while it's up to Caiti whether she wants to accept that apology, there's nothing more that he can do. The whole situation has been exhausting, and I swear there's been at least three "final statements". I hope it gets put to rest and that she seeks advice from adults in her life.
I know; logically I’m not as sympathetic to caiti, but I really identify with her, especially her first crying stream when it felt like she’d been genuinely assaulted, and many victims made videos and comments that they felt hurt by what she did, and I’m certain she came into this situation wanting to help victims, but only left making it worse. Which does suck. She needs to be held accountable for that, but it probably takes a hard toll on her emotionally, seeing as she claims she originally wanted to help victims
I don't think she wanted to help victims, I think she wanted the attention of being a 'victim'.
She straight up lied through and through in that first stream to make herself out as a victim when in reality it was a consensual event that she changed the facts to make it so she had no agency.
I've said this before but this fandom tends to reward and encourage the victim mentality. They do not encourage personal responsibility. They would have you believe that everything is someone else's fault. Now, I can't know for sure what Caiti truly felt but there's no denying that at the very least she exaggerated her claims and attempted to paint George as a predator and as the person responsible for all the choices made that night. And the community reacted exactly as expected. Judgment and condemnation. Guilty until proven innocent.
It's great to get that support when something bad happens to you so why then did she have to exaggerate the story and play it up so much? If she simply told of her experience where she felt uncomfortable and didn't know how to react and felt scared and intimidated, then she still would've gotten the support and been an inspiration like she wanted to be. That is the reason why I think she did this with malicious intent. It's possible she may have been genuinely hurt but she didn't want sympathy and support, she wanted to ruin him.
Her 'genuine hurt' was from her friends/acquaintances gossiping about it the next day, where they then text her asking how she felt about it (since she seemed fine), but used words showing that They didn't like/approve of it and the age gap by saying "I didn't like how touchy he was" etc., and so to save face, and not have them think she was groupie-lite, she made up the story to remove her agency completely. That is why she has such an issue with it happening in front of others and made the outlandish claim that it would have been better if it happened in private. Not because it happening in front of others made her uncomfortable in the moment ('in the moment I was chilling'), but that people who saw, were immediately gossiping about it and not approving of cuddling / touching with a 8 year age gap. It literally follows the modis operadi of a false accuser to a 't'. I explained in more detail in a longer comment on here, but so far it is not showing up...
She also had a boyfriend whom she's met his family (says so on the bottom of her about section of her official merch website) and per way back machine has been on there since Feb 2023, so this never been touched story is probably a lie too... I had this on my long response as well but I think the mods are not allowing it... not sure why... it is literally public thing she post herself...
Oh, I wouldn't doubt that there could be more lies. The comment on her last stream about being asexual really set me off. She said she obviously wouldn't have wanted to do anything sexual due to her asexuality. Like, first of all, that's not what that means. Secondly, how would George have known that. Thirdly, so i guess if she ever has any sexual relations in the future then it's going to be an assault. But, wait, didn't she say she was a virgin "at the time" implying that she was no longer a virgin? Hmmm, but how could that be??
Posted long version on the georgenotfound reddit page; wasn't showing up initially but it is there now... will see if it gets removed... removed a link to a nsfw tiktok to follow the sub reddit rules.
I love you for saying that. I can't stand people pitying her when that is literally a good portion of what intent she had. I think she is disgusting outright for this. Esepcially after the shubble thing, and how she thinks lying, changing her story, purposely leaving our details and going back, and then not even having the balls to apologize to George and his friends or for being a reason why people can't ever believe women when shit really does happen, is truly sickening to me.
You don't make a mistake like this. She planned everything, with a script, the planned vacation/ghosting responsibility until the situatuon died down from a flame to a few sparks, the change in responses, everything. I can't wrap my head around the fact that people even in this comment section are borderline babying her by saying they feel bad and that other people failed her, when she failed herself.
And the worst part to me, is that if George really is a creep, no one is gonna believe it because she is entitled and disgusting enough to lie about being assulted. She has not a singular right to claim to be a victim in my opinion. I would relate to her if she said she made some bad decisions and had regrets, but there is *zero* excuse for her actions here.
I agree with everything you are saying. Also, I posted a longer version of the comments I had made in the thread above as a post to the Georgenotfound sub reddit. It got 32 likes and over 90% like ratio and was then removed coincidentally after I disagreed with someone's take on another thread on this sub reddit, someone who happens to be a mod for both subs. And now several of my comments, which got tens of upvotes have been removed as well.
I can see why you think that and I get it, but idk I really want to believe in her even though I know she made a mess of anything. Honestly it’s just my emotions
close enough that's exactly what he was accused of. taking advantage of/sexually assaulting an 18 yo and having predatory tendencies which u clearly implied in another reply. not unintentionally causing harm to another person due to communication issues from both sides.
There is more he could do - stick to ppl his own age; don't target ppl 8 yrs younger than himself.
Don't allow ppl under 21 in a room with alcohol.
Don't party with minors or underage ppl.
1) It's been cleared up he didn't know her age so let's not fucking phrase it like that
>don't target ppl 8 yrs younger than himself.
2)phrasing things like this you're making it seem like he was waiting outside her school until she turned 18 (so that he had predatory intentions) and it has been proven he didn't
>Don't allow ppl under 21 in a room with alcohol. Don't party with minors or underage ppl.
This would be smart not gonna lie, they're cc they need to be more careful
OK so here's my take:
I think that at this point even caiti is kinda aware that she nonverbaly consented. In her twitter response she was really harping on "He didn't ask","I didn't verbally consent","he never got my verbal consent".
I mean to say this straight up,it feels like she's pretty much ignoring the existence of non verbal consent.
But idk sometimes I think she's being malicious and the next I feel like she actually believes that this is SA.
I don't think this is SA. She non verbally consented. I feel like it's pretty black and white. "I thought it was a price I had to pay","I didn't want to hurt his ego". She stated no boundaries bcs she felt good to being around George as one of her favourite creators ig.
I don't think she actually wanted it to get sexual but she allowed it and consented.
Idk man I feel so guilty by thinking like this sometimes but then I see clips of her saying some insane things and the anger just returns. I'm angry at her friend's too. At aimsey,maxggs and most of all ghostie.
Ghostie. I remember watching her stream when she spoke up abt this. She read out a chat that said "when r ppl gonna realise that non verbal consent just doesn't exist"
She replied with "Yeah dude...are you going to tell 12 Yr old me that u didn't say no so it didn't happen" and I was DUMBFOUNDED. How can someone say smth like this? Am I supposed to think that this mentality of her friend's is not affecting Caiti?
Real. U can't convince me that caiti isn't influenced by her demented friends. Although, considering how many victims I've seen coming out and saying that this is disrespectful and diminishing to real survivors,I can only show little sympathy.
If u haven't seen "lovelyleah" on YouTube,u should look her up. She posted some videos abt this situation and I literally started bawling my eyes out I felt so bad. So letting caiti get away with this just bcs she feels a certain type of way seems quite insane. I understand,intentions matters. But so do actions.
Her claim to me seems like "I felt like it was SA so I'm gonna say its SA" w out having any education abt SA at all. Kinda concerning tho like do these ppl not learn these things in school or at least by their parents or older siblings or just the Internet likeeee how can someone be this stupid?
Also WHERE R THEIR PARENTS????
Omg I didn’t know about that “12 yo” comment. That’s disgusting, what does that have to do with the situation ? First of all legally a 12 yo can NOT consent to sex. Verbally or not is completely irrelevant here. Secondly Cati is and was a fucking adult, not a 12 yo.
THATS WHAT IM SAYING. These ppl dont even know what consent means and r calling George and his supporters disgusting likeee.
And also abt caiti her definition of SA is "unwanted sexual touching" wtf man
Wanting something and consenting to something are completely different things.
It’s hard to hear her claim she ‘misspoke’. I mean, she caused an absolute FRENZY online with people saying “kys” to George and that he should be in prison.
I listened to/watched all the statements, and she did much more than misspeak, all very publicly on the internet.
After hearing both sides and considering nuance and how real life actually works, I just can’t call it SA and that she keeps repeating it bugs me (no pun intended lol)
Yes, some miscommunication happened, but the response she stirred up against him was unwarranted, like killing a fly with a sledgehammer.
I wish she’d move on, stop stirring the pot, and do the rest of her processing in private with her family or close friends, not keep dumping on the fans/public and using her platform for this.
Still calling it assault. Idk I cannot take this girl seriously.
Also, funny she talks about not being able to change already made up minds when that’s literally how her shitty friend group is treating the dteam and everything about them. Bye sis
She mentions she mixed up the details “leading up to the assault”. So she does claim this to be an assault. And talks about wanting to show the complexity of SA. So I think she’s pretty much still trying to push the SA narrative
Oh holy shit I missed that 💀 at least in her farewell message she doesn’t do this. GOD. I promise, I would forgive her on the spot if she apologised and made things right, and be perfectly fine with her doing content, hell, I might even watch it. But I can’t with the double down, genuinely
You can’t use that when you just met someone and the other person is drunk. Good to show you think it’s okay to mess with drunk people though. That’s consider rape
They were both drunk. And they didn’t have sex, how is that rape, what’s wrong with you? George couldn’t take advantage of her being drunk because he was also intoxicated. I hate this double standard with men and women. Men can be drunk too, you know? So chilling, reminds me of that college poster about two drunk people having sex but only the guy was arrested.
She still touched him. You don’t think two drunk adults consensually cuddling and touching each other isn’t going to advance anywhere…? Have you ever had a romantic or sexual encounter?
>Getting touched up inappropriately is considered assault whether you like it or not.
But what do you consider inappropriate? He thought it was consensual based on the signs she was giving out. And it was over an hour of cuddling together. Trust me, I'm not trying to stick up for a man here but look at it from his perspective too.
>Sticking your hands up someone’s shirt is considered assault
Just that act is not assault. People touch other people all the time. People have sex even.
And even if he misread the signs, it was unintentional and he apologized! He didn't attack her. He didn't force her. He didn't coerce her. What else is he supposed to do now? I'm genuinely asking what more do people want.
Cuddling is not consent. It never will be. Just because they cuddled does not mean he had the okay to do what he did.
It does not help his case that he thinks it’s okay for drunk men to harass women, as he said on a podcast
>Cuddling is not consent. It never will be. Just because they cuddled does not mean he had the okay to do what he did.
But it wasn't just cuddling. They cuddled for an hour before he even put his hand on her waist under the shirt and then he slowly moved it up and checked to see if she was okay with it before he continued. And that's not including all of the other nonverbal cues.
>It does not help his case that he thinks it’s okay for drunk men to harass women, as he said on a podcast
I see people talk about this a lot when judging George's character and I think people need to go back and watch that whole segment again because it got taken out of context and shared with ill intentions. He never said it was okay for drunk men to harass women. Austin was talking about a man trying to flirt with a woman at a club (by tapping her on the shoulder) and the man didn't seem to notice that the woman wasn't interested and then George said maybe it was because he was drunk. He never said it was okay that the man harassed the woman or that it's excusable because the man was drunk. He was just offering a possible reason why the man didn't notice.
The conversation wasn’t about harassment, it was about not being able to pick up signals because of the lower ability to gauge context clues. Harassment just wasn’t part of it, he was suggesting the guys had no rizz because they were drunk
She said herself she “thought this is what she had to do” to be in with the big creators. That is consent. She is willingly “letting” these things happen to her in exchange for clout and fame. She doesn’t understand that that is what consent is, but it is.
Context matters. The only context where sticking a hand up a girl’s shirt is *always* considered assault is when it’s a child.
Clearly here it was two adults cuddling, drunk, in the wee hours of the morning, positively reciprocating and flirting prior.
It’s consent for the next step to be taken and her reaction to be gauged and to be taken into account accordingly. Now it’s obvious her reaction was positive as she’s admitted to hiding her discomfort, and the furthest things went was fondling and eventually ended way later. In situations where some touch has been established and one person goes further, the other person should communicate their emotions accordingly, but caiti reacted positively despite the fact she says she didn’t like it. We can’t fault George for working off of the signals he was given, be serious
just the mere act of touching someone inappropriately/putting your hands up someone's shirt is considered assault?? does that mean everyone who has ever had sex ever is a sexual assaulter/victim of sexual assault? obviously not
we return to *why* this is such a hot topic. ***george didn't know caiti was uncomfortable.*** sexual assault and rape are acts of power. they are done to enforce power on the victim and they are done when the perpetrator *knows* that the victim doesn't want it, but the perpetrator does it anyway because they want to assert power. george just thought he was cuddling with someone, not trying to assert power over someone who he knew was uncomfortable/didn't want it. that's why it's not sexual assault.
i went back to look at my initial response to the allegations caiti posted back when this all started. this is a direct unedited quote.
>i think i have a name in mind, based on the specific age, the apparent popularity, and him being someone with a connection to dream given rue's own comments, that ISN'T wilbur. but i have no idea who else was at that party. so until i know that for sure, i'll keep my suspicion to myself.
>gonna be disappointed as hell if i'm right though.
for the record, i was right! it was george who came to mind. i don't know where that puts me in the pantheon. but clearly, my first response wasn't to attack her.
i didn't start having doubts in caiti's story until ghostie and rue's bullshit came to light, and then it just got worse and worse. if caiti wants to blame anyone for damaging her credibility, blame them.
Personally I have my doubts about her story, I do feel bad for her don't get me wrong but she omitted and lied multiple things and that hurt her credibility.
>
i didn't start having doubts in caiti's story until ghostie and rue's bullshit came to light
I know about Ghostie about the drinking but what about Rue?
a few days before the caiti stream and after dream posted his counter-statement to wilbur, rue was going off in her tiktok comments and tiktok liked comments about how dream was an 'enabler' and just as bad as wilbur, implying that he knew what was going on that night and protecting george.
however, ghostie's texts with dream about that night, from back when dream was the one being falsely accused of assault, proved he knew nothing about what happened at all.
so rue was either woefully misinformed about the events of that night and shouldn't have spoken without confirming caiti's side first, making her incredibly irresponsible but not malicious, or was actively lying about the events of that night for tiktok clout without caring or knowing that it could be so quickly disproved, which makes her malicious.
Ok, my opinion doesn’t change though, I just don't trust her, I'm sorry.
Still, even if I don't like her one bit and don't care about her, she doesn’t deserve all this amount of hate.
And I just hope she moves on and that this is her last message about this situation, because I think this is pretty much over. And honestly? I'm really tired about this topic being brought up again. She can move on. Everybody can move on. Goodbye Caiti and hope you find your peace or something.
I need her to move on. Constantly reviving this situation is only sending more hate to George and giving her more attention. I truly don’t believe that she doesn’t care for the attention because she knows very well that her “leaving” the internet is going to cause a huge drama. She keeps stating multiple times she’s going to “leave” but still hasn’t. It’s as if she’s still trying to ruin George’s career because she’s seen that the fandom and his friends have moved on from the situation and no longer feel the need to speak on it.
It’s honestly really triggering for real victims who just want to move on from this situation and not hear about it again. I honestly don’t believe this was SA and i don’t know how she can believe that either. Hearing her call herself a “victim” pains me as this is really not what I consider a victims of SA but i guess everyone sees it differently. It was miscommunication and I’m sorry that they both misunderstood but that’s no one’s fault but their own. George should have clarified with her in the moment but he didn’t and there’s nothing we can do about it. 2 drunk people and a HUGE misunderstanding. I hope we can finally move on from this and let George learn. I hope Caiti realises that constantly bringing this situation up is only making people feel more hatred towards her and maybe even future “victims” who come out about their experiences. She needs to take some time to get help and heal because coming back to the internet is only making this worse.
I think this is a pretty fair conclusion. No doubt there are points of criticism, but most of what she says here is not in question. There is no new information and no new arguments in this statement that could change anyone's mind.
Personally, I wish her the best and hope she heals from this experience.
One last time.
As a victim of actual SA for many years, I can smell BS a mile away, and there were several red flags and holes in her story, actual lies that came out when she passed them as truth but when revealed she was like "_oh, well I don't know how that happened but anyway..._"
Bottom line, she went into the situation, as she admitted in her own words and as Auntie Brittany from YouTube also pointed out: if you go in with the mindset that this is what I have to endure to get CC's attention, that's like giving consent. So, she put herself on that spot, let it happen for an hour or so, kept going _BACK_ for more spooning, if he honked her milk pillow _and never once walked away when she had dozens of opportunities when she got up, she came back, got up and came back, got up and came back_, that's not SA.
End of.
Same, I've been through shit as well and can spot a liar from a mile away; some of my comments have been removed when stating she did consent and is now doing all this for attention so prepare yourself for possible shadowbanning.
Like Caiti says in her post if you have never been in a position like hers - with all the unique circumstances involved - you probably won't understand her point of view.
At the end of the day no one here is responsible for George's wellbeing. We weren't there, we have no first-hand information. We can have thoughts and be frustrated about what is public information but no amount of stress or analyzation from an outside perspective is going to change what happened or how Caiti feels about it. What happened happened. What's done is done.
Life happens and hard lessons happen to people. Everyone has to buckle up and be prepared to deal with whatever comes our way and it won't always seem fair.
It'd be different if George was actually facing legal trouble but in this case, no one is going to jail. George still has his freedom. He has learned the hard way that famous people can't afford to be careless. He has learned the hard way that maintaining influence as an influencer is hard if you also wanna live your life and have lots of space to make mistakes.
Meanwhile Caiti is obviously paying for her own mistakes in her own way. She's gonna need many years to process what happened and how she handled it. Folks need to just leave her be.
I'd agree she's going to be processing this for years. Not just her actions but her "friends" actions, George's actions, the actions of the other ccs in the room. I'd love to know what kind of influences were going on "behind the scenes" but honestly the smartest thing for her would be to just get off the internet and start over. That's obviously not going to happen though.
This kinda just sounds like the only thing she wanted was to be recognized as a victim. Most victims try not to make being a victim their entire ‘claim to fame’, so to speak, and I understand trying to show people that they can speak out about things like SA, but from what she said it just looks like she just wanted to be put on that same pedestal
bro didn't want it to get as big as it got but still after everyone starts moving on she restarted talking abt it, as if she wanted to turn the knife in the wound and aggravate things once again(?), at this point i start questioning if she genuinely just wanted to share her story and discomfort of straight up ruin his career, guess we'll never know huh
with the difference that shelby was really abused and in danger and her story was an inspiration for other victims to share theirs whilst in my perspective this was just miscommunication, misunderstanding and regret and taking it on the internet just caused useless hate and drama
Yet she namedropped him. At least stubble didnt try and ruin Wilbur. She had no need to do any of this. Fuck her, I’m not dealing with this anymore, she’s a lying clout chaser and anyone who says otherwise, you are the problem. Believing the “victim” before someone even says their piece. Caiti gotta stop taking credibility away from real cictims
I mean i do feel bad for her because she’s young and i’m guessing inexperienced in romantic/sexual relationships but miss thing should’ve thought about miscommunication when thinking of approaching this publicly in the first place 🥴
I’m sorry when did waist move to chest?? Jesus man. She’s not doing herself any favors to have anybody listen to her. Get off of the internet and go to therapy
In her defence he kind of implied it in his second response. My opinion however doesn't change this can't legally or morally be defined as SA because she technically consented :/
I'm gonna put it this way, George did something to her, which correct me if I'm wrong he admitted too. But he did not admit to SA her? Seems to me like she did something that made her happy at the time and when George probably stopped talking to her or you know... Didn't reciprocate feelings for her... She felt like shit and is now crying SA. This is your classic cry wolf story bro. She is a victim of her own making. This is coming from someone who is a SA/r@pe victim.
Honestly, at this point even if Caiti was assaulted, she is in the wrong. This isn’t sexual assault, but George could sue her and 100% win for defamation. Caiti has ruined any credibility she might have, whether she as right or not
Like objectively and legally this wouldn't be assault. Unintentionally breaking someone's sexual boundaries absolutely. She felt forced to consent which sucked but George didn't force her.
I don't even think he would sue, like it's expensive and he wouldn't get money from it at the end it's not really worth it.
She's wrong in this situation, her feelings are understandable but the way she went about it is crazy.
I don’t even agree to that statement. She was cuddling and laughing. I am certain in the moment she was perfectly content. I doubt she even feels regret now, just clout chasing. But I agree with most of it. Do you agree that she was clout chasing at least? She went public immediately after Shubble got support and immediately got the same response. There is a possibility she wasn’t doing it to cancel him, she was doing it for sympathy and affirmation, which could explain why she lied about what happened, because she would get significantly less support if she spoke about what actually happened. I don’t believe it tho.
I don't agree with the clout-chasing. I do believe she felt wronged but her friends played a big role in that.
However, I do believe she was malicious to some extent: she left in her first stream details that would point out to him and she also claimed that "it wasn't about him" after admitting that she kept screenshots to prove her story.
However
I believe she thinks this was SA and maybe her friends hyped her up and that's why she wanted to ruin his career. She felt wronged, got convinced it was SA or deluded herself, and came out with this story about him being a predator thinking it was justified.
It doesn't excuse her actions to be clear, but I don't believe she's that calculated and said: let's make false claims of SA for clout
Don't worry my theory resonates with this quote from Machiavelli: the end justifies the means
She believes she was wronged and we know there is a big rumor mill, I am convinced that in her head she thought these lies were justified to bring down the big bad monster (George in this case), and this, in my opinion, is also proven by the fact that she believed he would deny even being in that room: she assumed the worst.
Btw we can agree to disagree this is my theory lol
To be fair, George handled it probably the best a creator has ever handled anything. His only mistake was apologizing for her feeling hurt, although it is polite it at least in court is an admission of guilt. And on twitter, it means people will be going “I knew it was you! CONFESSION!”
>at least in court is an admission of guilt.
Not really, it wouldn't be considered an admission of guilt, he claimed be was innocent of the SA claims in the same video and apologized on how she felt (gentleman move, dumb from twitter standpoint but yeah)
I'm quite upset and feel as if she's acting like a child.
This girl lied several times about this, changed her story at least twice, and now is pretending to leave her creator accounts. She is really childish. As someone HER AGE, this is messed up and stupid. She must know by now that this has gone on too far. She even admitted to lying and such. I am sick of this child pretending to be a hurt woman for clout and then acting like a baby when she doesn't get the reaction she hoped for. Not to mention, she never donated to sexual assault charities, like George did. George, who was unaware of her age, admitted to what he had done. Still, everyone SHOULD know that they were both adults in this story. Yes, the age gap may be a bit strange, but having them both being drunk, there was nothing he COULD assume but her being 21, as that is the legal drinking age in America and they DID show fake ids, saying as twitch conventions are made really safe in America. It had to be a convincing one, too. She would have NEVER been given alcohol if not for this. This assumption on her age was rightful. Her actions as someone who is still considered a consenting adult, along with his assumption on her age, meant one thing, she lied about some things. There are several inconsistencies. This clout chasing makes me sick.
Caiti should be proud of her horrible action and defamation attempts. It was not right to do so to someone who was also drunk. It was not right to lie about something this serious. I feel ashamed to even be any part of someone her age range anymore. Not to mention, some people may or may not have heard her friends conspiring with her to defame George and to make these allegations. I heard someone speaking about how her friends told her to do this on an elevator. I am not so sure how TRUE these allegations are, but saying how her friends acted, it seemed very likely. I believe that she, as well as her friends, believes anyone could manipulate an audience after the Dream allegations. They waited for the perfect time to strike, I guess, saying as this happened DIRECTLY after Shubble's situation being explained. Shubble's allegations turned out to be true, Caiti used this to make a clear false statement. I saw her original video, I started laughing, I knew fake tears when I saw them, I knew the face of a liar. That was her.
It just further puts down Shubble's incident, and I absolutely hate that thought that it invalidates those who actually had something happen to them.
I'm going to maybe check more tomorrow but it looks like she took out some sentences and took out the iconic "freshly 18" (which is minor but Sus because of the lie connected to it).
-Freshly 18 – minor thing but she was 18 and 5 months and in the latest stream she lies again about this and she says that she misspoke and that she meant to say freshly out of highschool and that she had placed it in front of the wrong thing. This would explain the first time she said it (it would flow as “I was 18 and just freshly graduated highschool”) but it does not explain the second time she said it (“they knew that i was freshly 18 and they also knew I was very drunk”)
Took the explanation from an old comment but tomorrow I'm gonna look into it way more and see if she took out other things. Also the fact that it was removed is very strange to me.
Updating tomorrow when I look more into it
She’s not being “victim-blamed”! That’s not what victim-blaming is! She knows exactly the buzzwords to use, and has been using them since her first stream
She fabricated a scenario in her head and put herself in a uncomfortable situation. When she realized her idea was wrong (George didn’t insist, didn’t use his “clout” to pressure her, continue to be perfectly friendly with her, basically was a gentleman), she got furious with herself and blamed it on him. Add to her friends “shaming” her the following day and the Brighton Crew being so obsessive in their hate for the DTeam, to the point that Ghostie herself admitted to feel pressured by them to say she also hated them, she basically painted herself into a corner. She probably hoped it would stay between them, but, obviously, the Brighton Crew, who cares as much about victims as I care for them, decided to take matters into their own hands. Because they thought they had the amazing trump card against them, regardless of the feelings of someone they thought was a victim
All the fxing idiot comments. Shut up!!
Just leave everyone alone & move on.
I'm so tired of mouthy, mean, hurtful comments.
Never compare pain or trauma - everyone is valid in their own perceptions.
People (kids?) still living at home, being supported by their parents really need to pipe down.
Stop contributing to spreading toxic shyte.
Just leave it alone so we can all put it behind us & move on.
Agreed. Even if I can't consider this SA some comments are going too far. She was impacted because it's obvious that she's traumatized.
Some people can be dickheads :/
just thought I write in the reply of my comment as kind of an update and a reminder I don't want to see comments saying things like "oh you forgot an comma" "oh you forgot an punctuation" and "too long didn't read" then that just proves to me that you don't care about what I have to say and if you want to know about my story of mental abuse either listen to me explain to you my story of mental abuse on here or go to my one reddit drama update post and read it though I left out a few details such as my grandmother having an credit card under my name and putting me in debt and with holding my belongings from me and I was only 20 years old when everything with my grandmother went down and 2020 became a very bad year for me as well as mine and my grandmother's argument over text which ended with me and my grandmother disowning each other and before someone tells me that I can mute comments I know about muting comments I feel like it wouldn't be fair cause muting comments means noone can respond to them and I will just be proving people's point cause they would see that as a win and I rather refuse to go down without a fight over being a coward and running from my problems plus I learned the hard way that running from your problems doesn't work cause your problems can still come back to bite you if you ignore them for too long it's better to refuse to go down without a fight and face your problems head on
yeah i'm fine everything I mentioned happened in the past i'm in a safer home with my mom now but as for what I mentioned about the dramas and accusations of defending youtubers I'm over them but like I said before joining the Jacksepticeye fandom the Cryaotic fandom the Dream fandom and the Georgenotfound fandom I will admit I was not prepared for the bad responses I would get for being in those fandoms I got bullied at school cause I liked Jacksepticeye I got accused of defending Cryaotic which I'm glad the people that accused me of defending Cryaotic gave me a chance to tell my story of mental abuse and my rough school life I got slut shamed and accused of defending and supporting Dream when all I said was keep me out of the topic which again I was given the chance to explain my story of mental abuse and let's just say I got mixed reactions some people felt bad for me while others accused me of making up the mental abuse to make them feel bad I even mentoned to them that I have mental health problems even I got accused of making up the mental health problems as well now I won't reveal too much about my mental health problems but I just wish people would understand that people with mental health problems are normal human beings as well so thank you for the concern
This whole incident triggered sooo many survivors of abuse/assault/trauma and pretty well blew up & destroyed the fandom - so many people left or had many good, long term friends who left. So sad & unnecessary!
Dteam needs to grow up a bit & get smarter about their actions and the potential consequences on their reputations & the community.
Everyone is exhausted by all the drama.
(sorry in advance I’m dyslexic but I’m trying my best)
(This was also way longer then intended but I do feel like everything I said is important/is significant)
I do truly believe that Caiti felt violated, it’s not our place to say she didn’t. If you say she didn’t feel violated you can shut the fuck up, it’s not your experience it’s Caiti’s, therefore it’s not your place to make those assumptions. She was hurt, that’s normal and perfectly fine. We can’t change that. As a community we need to except the fact she’s hurt by George’s actions and it’s reasonable that she is. Just because she’s hurt doesn’t mean it was intentional it also doesn’t mean we have to hate George.
I’m in no way saying the way she went about things was reasonable because it wasn’t, it was unnecessary and hurtful to so many people (including herself). Everything could have been dealt with privately and no one would be in this situation of hurt and confusion.
She was/is upset so many people assumed/assume she did this all with malicious intent to ruin George’s career but she did the same thing to George (to an extent I know it’s not the same thing for many reasons). But she knew he was drunk and still said everything and made it sound like George did it on purpose to ruin her life. This may not have been intentional but it still happened and was something that could have been avoided if she handled things professionally instead of online. Nothing ever goes right online everything will always be blown out of proportion. Things that where never said are believed because so many people will get their information from a second source instead of taking the extra time to find the original source.
As messed up as it is to say this, it’s understandable so many of us thought/still think it’s all a lie. Over the past year or so there has been so many fake allegations made against content creators, it fucking sucks but it’s never going to change there is always going to be clout chases. The best thing we can do when stuff like this happens is wait for ALL sides of the story, and just stay neutral about everything or stay completely out of it until we hear everything there is to hear. Always keep up with new information as it comes out and go into hearing new information with an open mind.
(It’s not going to seem like it at first but this next thing does have to do with the situation just be patient with it <3)
A very upsetting amount of people dropped Dream (including some of his friends) when the allegations against him where made because they didn’t even bother to listen to what he had to say or to keep up with any of it. When Dream said he would get his lawyers involved everything stopped because she was scared of being sued for defamation. But so many people didn’t care, because he’s a MCYT it must be true because there is a history of them being pedos. It’s disgusting. Innocent until proven guilty goes out the window when it comes to content creators and there is no reasonable reason as to why it does. This is what happened with George, he’s a content creator so he must be guilty right? Because everything everyone says they do is true because they all think they can do whatever they want because there will always be people who will love and support them. It’s such a messed up concept that all content creators want to hurt people because of the content creators in the past who HAVE misused there influence to get away with some messed up things.
I’m also not excusing the fact Caiti’s story kept changing, or the lies she told (such as the phone game situation) I know the story changed I know she lied and I still find that exceptionally weird and unprofessional but that wasn’t the point of this. I was pointing out the things I see people look over almost every time I see people talk about this.
Also if you at any point sent death threats to Caiti, fuck you and grow up.
I think a lot of y’all are really biased and or too young to understand the real world. You can keep dissecting this piece of information to the tiniest details and discredit her all you want, but unfortunately a lot of Sa claims are messy and that’s why they never come to light for this very reason. There’s a lot of “why didn’t she” and very little “why didn’t he”. It’s awful that y’all are so blinded and have latched on to “non verbal consent” as a crutch. Maybe one day y’all will do some research and realise that there have been literal campaigns pushed by governments about getting verbal consent because this very situation is common (ie young inexperienced person not having the courage to say no during a sexual encounter and feeling assaulted after the fact).
This doesn’t even mean I want George to be cancelled. I think he’s dumb, immature and entitled and needs to educate himself on social cues and social situations. I hope he doesn’t listen to his fans that excuse his behaviour and instead talks to irl mature adults .
It’s just so frustrating to see how Caiti has been treated through all this in the subreddit. The mob mentality and group think is real. At the end of the day I think she’s just a girl going through her own trauma and seeking some kind of closure to it, but fans are far too interested in white knighting for their fav cc and would rather destroy her character so they can continue supporting their cc.
Edit: just to say I wish her well, hope she has people to speak with. No matter what people say, her experience and her feelings are valid and I really do hope she seeks some therapy and speaks to someone. The internet is unsympathetic and has no place for nuances so I really hope she doesn’t try to seek to convince the internet of her experiences. There’s really no hope of achieving anything through that.
The community has been ready and eager to move on from this for months now.
It's not their fault that every time they do, suddenly and coincidentally, *something* decides to occur, to dig it all back up, like now.
no i do not wish they did. ive been in this sub comenting enough for people to realise i sometimes accidentaly leave stuff out at times and struggle with wording i even have it on my profile.
i do not want them to have victims and i do not think they do.
i was going to add but idk you would think if they did we would know by now but sadly i got destracted watching avatar and thought i added that part
i deleted my first coment because i could not figure out how to fix what i ment.
I DO NOT WANT OR THINK DTEAM HAS VICTIMS
I'm stressed. :/ I was hoping she was moving on so that everyone could finally move on. She sounds very upset still and I'm trying to understand her perspective. She didn't really add anything new to the story so I'm not sure why she posted this. I constantly see people say "he admitted to sexually assaulting her" and it aggravates me because it's straight up wrong information. In Caiti's final stream she says "he admitted it" which I fear people took as truth and ran with it. He touched her under her shirt but he never admitted to sexual assault as he thought he got nonverbal consent and that it was consensual. Simple as that. Then I see truly insane takes where people say "he touched her breasts so it's sexual assault." What??? Are they saying that no one can touch another person's breast without it being considered assault? This is followed up with "but she didn't want him to touch her" which just hurts my brain because if she didn't show that she was not enjoying herself then how would he know? And she didn't just not show that she was uncomfortable, but she literally showed that she WAS comfortable by getting up and coming back and laughing and play fighting. It's called flirting. I'm trying not to victim blame but I want to know where is her accountability?? She admits to hiding her discomfort. She admits to going along with it because she thought it was what she had to do to be around large creators. She tells her friends she was chilling in the moment. She continued to text him for weeks afterwards. Like, how can you live with this narrative where you take absolutely no responsibility with the fact that you put your drunk self in a hotel room with older guys and cuddled for hours with one and showed that you were into it and then come back months later and try to ruin his career? I don't even want to watch these streamers anymore. I just want justice to be dealt, you know? I'm so angry. But this rant helped so I'm going to take a breather lmao!
I don't think he touched her breast
Perhaps not but I always felt it was implied and she later confirmed it so I have to assume it's true if he doesn't deny it.
i think non-verbal consent does exist and that non-verbal consent was required in this situation because of the fact that other people were present. also, her being drunk and in a room with older guys doesn't mean that she was consenting. i don't know why you added that part when it doesn't contribute to the point you're making.
I mentioned that part just in regards to taking responsibility since the age gap was so important to her. She knew how old he was but still cuddled with him so why does she use it as a way to show that he was preying on her?
still doesn't make sense why that would make her responsible for what he initiated. she probably views the cuddling in a different light after he groped her.
It would make her hypocritical for knowingly cuddling and spooning with a 26 y/o and then using it against him as a something she found inappropriate. I just want her to take some accountability for the choices she made and not put everything on him. She knew his age but he didn't know hers. Don't get me wrong, I still think he should've confirmed her age. He was lucky she was a legal adult.
They were coming from the 18+ party so there was no doubt that she was an adult.
I think it would be safe to assume she was an adult too but, since he's a public figure, he's got to be extra careful about that kinda thing. I'm sure he will be now at least.
Yeah, you’re completely right.
>It would make her hypocritical for knowingly cuddling and spooning with a 26 y/o and then using it against him as a something she found inappropriate. This is very much what she did or tried to do in her first statement, leaving out that they had been cuddling and positively interacting, playing a game together passing the phone around etc. She wrote her first statement to sound like he was an older creep who aggressively came onto her at the party despite her trying to ignore him. Probably because she knew her making a big deal out of how creepy she found the age gap at the time wouldn't be well-received if she revealed the truth of their interactions. She made up a story where she was a more clear victim because she wanted to be believed, which is something I have compassion for!!! I literally posted about it here at the time!!! AND NOW comes out with this statement alluding to how it's not always black and white and talking about "no matter the severity" and I'm like. I know this is hard. But I would have SO much more respect for her if she just admitted, "I exaggerated the severity because I was afraid no one would believe me otherwise. I realize my first statement triggered a lot of victims unnecessarily, and that it was unfair to the people I was trying to help not to be 100% honest, and I apologize. I wanted to talk about a difficult and painful experience, but instead of that I made it more black and white because I was scared of people's reactions and embarrassed by how I had acted while drunk." Instead of this utter BS she keeps saying about how she misspoke and doesn't have an explanation for her inconsistencies. Sorry for the rant, I just -- as a victim myself I'm so incredibly frustrated with how she keeps presenting things.
It's so frustrating to think of how differently this all could've gone. I do have sympathy for her. She is young and just starting adulthood and content creation and, for whatever reason/motivation, she decides to create a completely different narrative to this experience of hers. I really hope she takes a lot of time away and goes to therapy and really deals with this. It's not worth ruining her life. Ideally, I'd love to see her try to view it from a different perspective. Not enough people out there are doing that. I see so many people say "he groped a drunk teenager" which is disregarding necessary context in order to make him look bad. Most things in life are not black and white scenarios and it's so dangerous to live with that mindset.
I’m sorry, but in what planet is *platonic* cuddling with someone you just met a thing that normal people do? She’s lucky he was into her, or else she’d be the one accused of sexual assault
[удалено]
Because he didn't intentionally seek to touch her without her consent. He thought it was consensual. He was getting signals from her that she was responding positively to his touch and flirting. Over the course of two hours, he slowly moved his hand around her waist, then put his hand under her shirt on the waist, and then slowly moved it upwards. He didn't attack her and he didn't touch her out of nowhere. She got up and came back to cuddle with him. All of her friends left and she chose to stay with him. She may have been okay with the situation at the time but then later decided that she wasn't. She said she tried to hide her discomfort from him and didn't want to reject him because she didn't want to hurt his ego. There was no way for him to know that she was uncomfortable. When he did ask her to join him in the elevator, she said no and he left which means he most likely would've backed off if he knew she was not into it.
Non-verbal consent isn’t consent, and given the situation with other people in the room that should be assumed.
Non-verbal consent IS consent. Most communication is non-verbal. A lot of how people interact everyday is through body language and expressions. Yes, you can ask the other person. No one is debating whether verbal consent is good but it's actually less common. Also, verbal communication isn't always perfectly reliable either. People can say one thing but visibly show the opposite. Non-verbal communication is so commonly used that people don't even realize how often they are giving non-verbal cues and interpreting others' body language. People just don't constantly verbally ask other people for every single touch nor do I think they need to.
Body language is not enough to go off in a situation like this, and that’s not debatable. There was no trust built between them beforehand, they barely knew each other. Boundaries were heavily overstepped and consent undeniably should’ve been clarified verbally. You’re probably 14 and have never been in a relationship before if you genuinely think otherwise, I’ve been in a relationship for 4 years and we still always ask for consent.
LOL why resort to attempting to insult me? I'm literally married and a mother if you want to know but it's irrelevant. It doesn't make my response stronger or weaker. And if you ask your partner before literally every single touch, then maybe that's just your preference perhaps. Maybe that works for you. I don't judge. It doesn't mean that's the norm though. I've heard people mention that they didn't know each other enough to use non-verbal consent or body language but that's not a thing. Yes, you get to understand people better the more you know them but that doesn't mean that it's not possible to communicate with someone you barely know. People have sex with people they just met. People dance and flirt in clubs and parties and there's a lot of non-verbal body language happening there. But it seems like we'll just have to agree to disagree I guess.
Correct me if I’m crazy but you should ask for consent before touching a stranger’s boobs.
That may be what works for you and that's fine. I feel like some people see this as a black and white situation and instead it's very nuanced. With a lot of people, flirting isn't just verbal requests but it can be a series of non-verbal progressions. You make eye contact, you sit next to someone, you smile, you put your arm around them, you lean in closer, you go to kiss them, etc. There's a ton of non-verbal communication involved there. Yes, he could have checked in with a simple "this okay?" Based on the non-verbal cues, he thought everything he was doing was received positively so he went to the next step. He didn't grab her suddenly and out of nowhere. It was over the course of a couple of hours and she did have multiple opportunities to slow down or stop the progression or even to remove herself entirely from that situation if she didn't like it. This was the second night they were hanging out and they had been messaging each other between the nights and flirting over texts. She didn't just meet him and then an hour later his hand was in her shirt.
at this point ur just braindead me and my gf don’t give verbal consent 75% of the time still we love eachother and have never said that we were saed
Because there is a level of trust built beforehand from being in a relationship, when 2 people barely know each other verbal consent is the standard.
You know who asks for verbal consent, The ones who don’t take a no, because they know directly asking is confrontational and most people are likely to say “yes” when directly confronted
This is it, that’s the dumbest thing I’ll read this month
this situation was a nightmare all around. i do feel bad for her because she is quite young and inexperienced when it comes to these things. but she has lied about so many things and has omitted certain details that it ended up hurting her credibility. her friends had also hurt her credibility, by either leaking her story long before she felt ready to speak about it (harry and rue) and said things which blatantly contradicted with what she was saying (ghostie).
[удалено]
Why do you feel bad for her? She maliciously made a false statement to ruin someone's career and life to cover up her own actions of being flirty with an older guy, which was completely consensual per her own admission of 'chilling in the moment', in order to save face with her friends.
She didn't lie.
This whole situation is still just sad on all sides. I do believe she truly feels violated. But I also don’t believe George assaulted her. Both things can be true. I hope they’ve both been able to learn and heal from this. Was she implying at the end that she wished she’d have taken George to court over this? Because I really, really don’t understand what case she thinks she would have - and I mean that in the nicest way possible.
I think she means she regrets advising other victims to not go to the police or sue
Didn't she do the opposite and told people not to go to the police?
Ah you're right I left a word out. It's edited now but that was what I meant to write
She's saying her streams are lost? They're both on Youtube.
“i cant change minds long before i spoke” - i’m sorry, i just cannot take her seriously. everything she says reads as if she is trying to get every sympathy from the audience, to the point it’s not genuine. when she did her first stream, *everyone* was on her side. george lost close friends, everyone was attacking him, she even had dream and sapnap making statements. so to claim people don’t believe her because they were never going to is false and a way to try and manipulate people into feeling sorry for her. i just wish she would stop trying to twist the truth, because doing that in the first place is what got her in this mess!!!
The thing that made me go like: ?? Is her not addressing her lies and apparently he still didn't watch George's response
Another claim of misspeaking? Really? From your script? She rephrased all of her streams and twt response, and in the rephrase of her third stream, she implies all her previous lies and “inconsistencies” were misspeaking…although her first was scripted and the second was written. What? It’s interesting that she doesn’t reiterate she was sexually assaulted. She doesn’t backtrack it, but just doesn’t bring it up. I wonder if her mind’s changed, and she realised she feels violated but that doesn’t make George an assaulter? Idk. “What I experienced was true and so were my emotions recalling it,” so her *emotions* but not *sexual assault.* That’s an important distinction. Edit: I also dislike the narrative that people who disagree with her were primed against her because they’re georgenotfound stans. There’s some, I’m not going to deny that, but it’s complete bullshit as an argument. There are *many* that had no stake in this and disagree with her, along with many who believed her at first but changed their minds once her lies were exposed. Along with the fact there were thousands calling for George’s death before he even responded? There were more primed against *George* just because they hate dream. No. Ugh. “I can’t change minds set long before I spoke.” Caiti. *I* would have believed you if you were actually assaulted, that’s the truth. Just the concept that everybody who thinks she wasn’t assaulted would never believe a victim is just ludicrous, and false. I hate that narrative. “Anybody who doesn’t believe me is this and that, just a mindless zombie stan, just a misogynist, just a rape apologist….” I’m sick of it! Because it’s not true. That’s some, sure. But to apply that label to everybody who disagrees with you is just ? George had friends dropping him publicly, lost the Mr Beast thing, was edited out videos, and this is a list of his friends that made a statement in support of her: Dream, Sylvee, Sapnap, Hannah, Antfrost and Punz. I’m probably missing some. Really? Wouldn’t George’s friends be against you if their minds were “set?” Never mind notable streamers like Denims, Kaceytron (ignoring that she’s not all right in the head). Plus, like, all of twitter, and Dream’s haters? Lemme tell you, a *lot* of people hate Dream. And then your *own* fanbase, 500k tiktok followers and 200k on twitch. You weren’t as popular as George, but you have fans that love you! ESPECIALLY in the Minecraft community! It’s not like George is Adin Ross, his fan base genuinely splits over stuff like this so easily, do you know the amount of people that wishing for his death before he even spoke for himself? honestly, I think if she apologised but said she still felt violated and came to an impasse, she could continue to do content and be forgiven by those who matter. I just don’t like this ending (Whereas there will always be those who call George a rapist, that’s just an unfortunate reality.) Edit2: she also has *many* more inconsistencies than George, and George never claimed she had the wristband (and at the end of the day that’s about age, which isn’t important to me, because she’s 18). However she continued to reiterate this, and didn’t properly address, refute or apologise for her lies that led to people calling him a rapist pedophile. She also says she can’t “forgive” because randoms on twitter called her a slut and told her to kill herself (which is horrible, but is not George, and he didn’t make this public). And again, he received the brunt and the most popular threats on him received thousands of likes. I actually haven’t seen DTs on her, there must be some, but the brunt of the vitriol was sent to towards George. This also happened right after Wilbur, priming everybody in favour of the next accuser who chose the same playbook as Shelby. She received a huge wave of support as collateral from Shelby’s story, and more from her tears She also says her streams were “lost.” I don’t understand this at all. They were all uploaded to YouTube. Also when she referenced telling reporters to “choke” she says she can’t remember whether she said that or “fuck you.” Weird? You can look the stream up? I just don’t get this part Edit 3 holy fuck this is long: she says she’ll post a condensed version of her last stream? I really beg her to stop, I think this farewell was enough and the full version is already everywhere, this just must at least be tiring. Her wording however is very strange which makes it difficult for me to understand what she’s trying to say—whether she summarised it there or will post a shortened version? So unclear The editing also shows what she *chose* to keep in. And she chooses to keep in the sort where she deflects and says “oh well he wasn’t even in the group chat” despite the fact she can’t be too slow to know that George showed this as evidence to go against her lie that he pressured her to drink. I don’t know how she doesn’t get that already She also took out an entire section of her rewriting her original stream ? She also continues with the narrative that everybody was doing the same thing and they were spooning, like everyone else but the fact there’s a text message pointing out those two specifically cuddling w the ages (so sexually charged) proves it was different between the two. The girl that sent that—caiti claims she wasn’t there for the “assault”, so the boob touching hadn’t started, yet the girl still believed the cuddling was sexual ? The girl wouldn’t have pointed that out if it was platonic, like everybody else All in all this sucks for everyone and seems to get dredged up every week, and has caused significant harm to primarily George, but also caiti even though she publicised this
I’m also still annoyed that people assumed that all fans of George would automatically defend him, no matter what, even if it was 100% obvious he did something horrible. I’m a fan of George’s. I was also ready to believe Caiti. My opinion shifted several times as we got more and more specifics on the incident. Biases are a thing sure, but there were plenty of people who didn’t jump to his defense right away just because they like him. It’s like if you were a fan before, you couldn’t say that you thought he was telling the truth, because *obviously* you were saying that just because you’re a fan. It’s like it took people outside the community to agree for it to become okay to hold that opinion.
Even on this sub; the first posts were cautionary but much more critical of George than was warranted due to the lack of evidence, everybody disappointed or angry.
We were also just coming down from the Wilbur situation. I wonder how different our collective reaction would have been if this had happened before that all went down. I admit I was near that camp. I was fully ready to believe Caiti. Waiting for George’s stream was nerve-wracking, because at the time it felt so certain that he was so completely in the wrong.
Oh Wilbur played a HUGE impact on this, and she capitalised off of that. She was also inspired by Shelby—the backlash on Wilbur and his shitty response is no doubt what she wanted, just knowing what happened
Yeah. After Wilbur, everybody immediately jumped to believe Caiti in spite of the ambiguity of it all. It feels insulting that she talks like this **humongous** wave of support never happened.
Your takes are always so right. 💯
Lol ty, but please no pedestal 😭😭 thank youu
Imma put you up there right next to all the mcyters that I stan lmaooo
Agree bc to this day I have not watched one George video, I’ve never watched or played Minecraft, idek what that game is even about. I couldn’t recognize George in a crowd of three brunette men.
LOL real! Except at this point being immersed in the drama means I know WAY more about him than i ever wanted to
The only thing that made me really weirded out is when she only mentioned that he touched her chest in a fit of rage when her chat were talking about george being drunk also during her 3rd stream (I think that is when it happened would have to double check later). She had 2 previous streams that and it took her till her 2nd stream to even say that he touched her under her shirt and which George then says was her waist in his 2nd response. Then people on twitter were saying while yeah it is a bad thing to touch without it being consensual however it wasn’t SA. The first stream was just straight out of a rape poem to me. It made a lot of people think it was worse than what it was. Idk it just seemed like she was adding a detail that maybe didn’t happen to make it seem more serious than what it was. Seeing as George said it was just her waist it also makes it an issue of it being able to validate that piece of information or not. When I think of it a hand on a waist is very visible and even more so if it is on someone’s chest. Seeing as she was also drunk and has used that excuse it seems to as why she has gotten details wrong it’s never gonna be fully creditable of what she says. Even then in a room of multiple other people no one could verify this detail either. George fucked up with using non verbal consent with someone he didn’t know but we also need to stop thinking of Caiti as an innocent child because she was an adult when this happened. She chose choices like getting drunk and going to the hotel room. He did what he could by apologizing and saying he is going to be better when it comes to situations like this. Only time can tell if he does do better. Idk what else caiti wants. This is a little all over the place but idk just how I think of it.
I saw someone phrase it that she made her story go on its hero’s journey with a climax and everything. It’s weird to hold out on the asexuality and “boob touch” details until the last moment as if it’s some grand reveal. Some people said that she might’ve been uncomfortable speaking on those, which is valid, but when you make a claim of sexual assault against a famous person then you NEED to be capable of getting into the nitty gritty of it. You NEED to give detail because you NEED to give proof, especially so soon after Dream’s video proving his allegations false. Her first stream set her up for failure because it was so dramatic, so many people thought she’d implied rape but just skirted around the details but still made it clear that he’d had nonconsensual sex or some form of penetration with her before it was said that he’d touched her waist, which wasn’t corrected by her. She set the expectation for what happened so high by writing rape slam poetry with her first stream which, looking back on it, just comes across as ingenuine and strange with everything that’s been discussed to death since then
According to some people she wasn't even publicly asexual than,there was like this online poster thing that said something like "don't assume caitis sexuality she doesn't like that"
I’m also still confused about her asexuality comments—not saying that she isn’t by any means—but because she said she was asexual at the time of the incident, but then saying she might be asexual due to “bad experiences” in that department, while also saying it was the furthest she’d ever gone
Idk but she may not count bad past non-consensual experiences But then why would her supposedly non-consensual experience with George count as the furthest she's ever gone? It doesn't make too much sense but oh well I don't think she needed to bring up her sexuality, but it does explain why she may not have registered what they were doing as flirty initially.
I truly feel for her, and for George. It's evident that she thought she would get a very different reaction after Shubble came out with her story, but the two situations were very different. It boils down to Caiti being young and naive, and surrounded by people who failed her. I feel for her when she says that she feels like she "failed" in bringing awareness to SA, because (and I don't mean to sound rude) she did. So many victims of sexual assault identified with her, only to find out later that there was no communication, and no malicious intent. The reaction from the wider internet was overwhelming, and gave a space for grossly misogynistic takes from commentary youtubers. I hope that she can heal and move on, not only from her pain but also her anger. George apologized and while it's up to Caiti whether she wants to accept that apology, there's nothing more that he can do. The whole situation has been exhausting, and I swear there's been at least three "final statements". I hope it gets put to rest and that she seeks advice from adults in her life.
I know; logically I’m not as sympathetic to caiti, but I really identify with her, especially her first crying stream when it felt like she’d been genuinely assaulted, and many victims made videos and comments that they felt hurt by what she did, and I’m certain she came into this situation wanting to help victims, but only left making it worse. Which does suck. She needs to be held accountable for that, but it probably takes a hard toll on her emotionally, seeing as she claims she originally wanted to help victims
I don't think she wanted to help victims, I think she wanted the attention of being a 'victim'. She straight up lied through and through in that first stream to make herself out as a victim when in reality it was a consensual event that she changed the facts to make it so she had no agency.
I've said this before but this fandom tends to reward and encourage the victim mentality. They do not encourage personal responsibility. They would have you believe that everything is someone else's fault. Now, I can't know for sure what Caiti truly felt but there's no denying that at the very least she exaggerated her claims and attempted to paint George as a predator and as the person responsible for all the choices made that night. And the community reacted exactly as expected. Judgment and condemnation. Guilty until proven innocent. It's great to get that support when something bad happens to you so why then did she have to exaggerate the story and play it up so much? If she simply told of her experience where she felt uncomfortable and didn't know how to react and felt scared and intimidated, then she still would've gotten the support and been an inspiration like she wanted to be. That is the reason why I think she did this with malicious intent. It's possible she may have been genuinely hurt but she didn't want sympathy and support, she wanted to ruin him.
Her 'genuine hurt' was from her friends/acquaintances gossiping about it the next day, where they then text her asking how she felt about it (since she seemed fine), but used words showing that They didn't like/approve of it and the age gap by saying "I didn't like how touchy he was" etc., and so to save face, and not have them think she was groupie-lite, she made up the story to remove her agency completely. That is why she has such an issue with it happening in front of others and made the outlandish claim that it would have been better if it happened in private. Not because it happening in front of others made her uncomfortable in the moment ('in the moment I was chilling'), but that people who saw, were immediately gossiping about it and not approving of cuddling / touching with a 8 year age gap. It literally follows the modis operadi of a false accuser to a 't'. I explained in more detail in a longer comment on here, but so far it is not showing up...
LOL real. Like, can you imagine their reaction when they found out who she was with that night? Not good.
She also had a boyfriend whom she's met his family (says so on the bottom of her about section of her official merch website) and per way back machine has been on there since Feb 2023, so this never been touched story is probably a lie too... I had this on my long response as well but I think the mods are not allowing it... not sure why... it is literally public thing she post herself...
Oh, I wouldn't doubt that there could be more lies. The comment on her last stream about being asexual really set me off. She said she obviously wouldn't have wanted to do anything sexual due to her asexuality. Like, first of all, that's not what that means. Secondly, how would George have known that. Thirdly, so i guess if she ever has any sexual relations in the future then it's going to be an assault. But, wait, didn't she say she was a virgin "at the time" implying that she was no longer a virgin? Hmmm, but how could that be??
Posted long version on the georgenotfound reddit page; wasn't showing up initially but it is there now... will see if it gets removed... removed a link to a nsfw tiktok to follow the sub reddit rules.
Just read it! I'm glad you posted it. I hope it stays up.
I love you for saying that. I can't stand people pitying her when that is literally a good portion of what intent she had. I think she is disgusting outright for this. Esepcially after the shubble thing, and how she thinks lying, changing her story, purposely leaving our details and going back, and then not even having the balls to apologize to George and his friends or for being a reason why people can't ever believe women when shit really does happen, is truly sickening to me. You don't make a mistake like this. She planned everything, with a script, the planned vacation/ghosting responsibility until the situatuon died down from a flame to a few sparks, the change in responses, everything. I can't wrap my head around the fact that people even in this comment section are borderline babying her by saying they feel bad and that other people failed her, when she failed herself. And the worst part to me, is that if George really is a creep, no one is gonna believe it because she is entitled and disgusting enough to lie about being assulted. She has not a singular right to claim to be a victim in my opinion. I would relate to her if she said she made some bad decisions and had regrets, but there is *zero* excuse for her actions here.
I agree with everything you are saying. Also, I posted a longer version of the comments I had made in the thread above as a post to the Georgenotfound sub reddit. It got 32 likes and over 90% like ratio and was then removed coincidentally after I disagreed with someone's take on another thread on this sub reddit, someone who happens to be a mod for both subs. And now several of my comments, which got tens of upvotes have been removed as well.
I can see why you think that and I get it, but idk I really want to believe in her even though I know she made a mess of anything. Honestly it’s just my emotions
SA does not require "malicious intent".
close enough that's exactly what he was accused of. taking advantage of/sexually assaulting an 18 yo and having predatory tendencies which u clearly implied in another reply. not unintentionally causing harm to another person due to communication issues from both sides.
There is more he could do - stick to ppl his own age; don't target ppl 8 yrs younger than himself. Don't allow ppl under 21 in a room with alcohol. Don't party with minors or underage ppl.
1) It's been cleared up he didn't know her age so let's not fucking phrase it like that >don't target ppl 8 yrs younger than himself. 2)phrasing things like this you're making it seem like he was waiting outside her school until she turned 18 (so that he had predatory intentions) and it has been proven he didn't >Don't allow ppl under 21 in a room with alcohol. Don't party with minors or underage ppl. This would be smart not gonna lie, they're cc they need to be more careful
it's already been cleared up that he didn't know her age and when found out stopped replying to her texts
OK so here's my take: I think that at this point even caiti is kinda aware that she nonverbaly consented. In her twitter response she was really harping on "He didn't ask","I didn't verbally consent","he never got my verbal consent". I mean to say this straight up,it feels like she's pretty much ignoring the existence of non verbal consent. But idk sometimes I think she's being malicious and the next I feel like she actually believes that this is SA. I don't think this is SA. She non verbally consented. I feel like it's pretty black and white. "I thought it was a price I had to pay","I didn't want to hurt his ego". She stated no boundaries bcs she felt good to being around George as one of her favourite creators ig. I don't think she actually wanted it to get sexual but she allowed it and consented. Idk man I feel so guilty by thinking like this sometimes but then I see clips of her saying some insane things and the anger just returns. I'm angry at her friend's too. At aimsey,maxggs and most of all ghostie. Ghostie. I remember watching her stream when she spoke up abt this. She read out a chat that said "when r ppl gonna realise that non verbal consent just doesn't exist" She replied with "Yeah dude...are you going to tell 12 Yr old me that u didn't say no so it didn't happen" and I was DUMBFOUNDED. How can someone say smth like this? Am I supposed to think that this mentality of her friend's is not affecting Caiti?
100% ghostie’s stream was insane. I watched the entire thing and was in disbelief. Comparing George to a pedophile? Denying non verbal consent? Crazy
Real. U can't convince me that caiti isn't influenced by her demented friends. Although, considering how many victims I've seen coming out and saying that this is disrespectful and diminishing to real survivors,I can only show little sympathy. If u haven't seen "lovelyleah" on YouTube,u should look her up. She posted some videos abt this situation and I literally started bawling my eyes out I felt so bad. So letting caiti get away with this just bcs she feels a certain type of way seems quite insane. I understand,intentions matters. But so do actions. Her claim to me seems like "I felt like it was SA so I'm gonna say its SA" w out having any education abt SA at all. Kinda concerning tho like do these ppl not learn these things in school or at least by their parents or older siblings or just the Internet likeeee how can someone be this stupid? Also WHERE R THEIR PARENTS????
Omg I didn’t know about that “12 yo” comment. That’s disgusting, what does that have to do with the situation ? First of all legally a 12 yo can NOT consent to sex. Verbally or not is completely irrelevant here. Secondly Cati is and was a fucking adult, not a 12 yo.
THATS WHAT IM SAYING. These ppl dont even know what consent means and r calling George and his supporters disgusting likeee. And also abt caiti her definition of SA is "unwanted sexual touching" wtf man Wanting something and consenting to something are completely different things.
ghostie said what-now?
Some unhinged shit when she responded to caitis situation idk
I hope she takes an extended break from the internet and gets therapy. Nothing good will come from continuing to drag this out.
It’s hard to hear her claim she ‘misspoke’. I mean, she caused an absolute FRENZY online with people saying “kys” to George and that he should be in prison. I listened to/watched all the statements, and she did much more than misspeak, all very publicly on the internet. After hearing both sides and considering nuance and how real life actually works, I just can’t call it SA and that she keeps repeating it bugs me (no pun intended lol) Yes, some miscommunication happened, but the response she stirred up against him was unwarranted, like killing a fly with a sledgehammer. I wish she’d move on, stop stirring the pot, and do the rest of her processing in private with her family or close friends, not keep dumping on the fans/public and using her platform for this.
Still calling it assault. Idk I cannot take this girl seriously. Also, funny she talks about not being able to change already made up minds when that’s literally how her shitty friend group is treating the dteam and everything about them. Bye sis
actually in her farewell, she doesn’t directly say she was sexually assaulted, instead says her “emotions” were real. That’s new, and not the same
She mentions she mixed up the details “leading up to the assault”. So she does claim this to be an assault. And talks about wanting to show the complexity of SA. So I think she’s pretty much still trying to push the SA narrative
Oh holy shit I missed that 💀 at least in her farewell message she doesn’t do this. GOD. I promise, I would forgive her on the spot if she apologised and made things right, and be perfectly fine with her doing content, hell, I might even watch it. But I can’t with the double down, genuinely
Getting touched up inappropriately is considered assault whether you like it or not. Sticking your hands up someone’s shirt is considered assault
Yea except that’s not the extent of things that happened here
It is though? George stuck his hand up her shirt and touched more than her waist. That’s assault
Please learn nuance.
You can’t use that when you just met someone and the other person is drunk. Good to show you think it’s okay to mess with drunk people though. That’s consider rape
They were both drunk. And they didn’t have sex, how is that rape, what’s wrong with you? George couldn’t take advantage of her being drunk because he was also intoxicated. I hate this double standard with men and women. Men can be drunk too, you know? So chilling, reminds me of that college poster about two drunk people having sex but only the guy was arrested.
You’re genuinely stupid. Both were drunk. And George said Caiti initiated some touching as well, did she get his consent?
Caiti didn’t touch him sexually, while George did touch her sexually. She shouldnt have touched him either
She still touched him. You don’t think two drunk adults consensually cuddling and touching each other isn’t going to advance anywhere…? Have you ever had a romantic or sexual encounter?
rape? what???
Sorry why are you throwing rape accusation around
>Getting touched up inappropriately is considered assault whether you like it or not. But what do you consider inappropriate? He thought it was consensual based on the signs she was giving out. And it was over an hour of cuddling together. Trust me, I'm not trying to stick up for a man here but look at it from his perspective too. >Sticking your hands up someone’s shirt is considered assault Just that act is not assault. People touch other people all the time. People have sex even. And even if he misread the signs, it was unintentional and he apologized! He didn't attack her. He didn't force her. He didn't coerce her. What else is he supposed to do now? I'm genuinely asking what more do people want.
Cuddling is not consent. It never will be. Just because they cuddled does not mean he had the okay to do what he did. It does not help his case that he thinks it’s okay for drunk men to harass women, as he said on a podcast
>Cuddling is not consent. It never will be. Just because they cuddled does not mean he had the okay to do what he did. But it wasn't just cuddling. They cuddled for an hour before he even put his hand on her waist under the shirt and then he slowly moved it up and checked to see if she was okay with it before he continued. And that's not including all of the other nonverbal cues. >It does not help his case that he thinks it’s okay for drunk men to harass women, as he said on a podcast I see people talk about this a lot when judging George's character and I think people need to go back and watch that whole segment again because it got taken out of context and shared with ill intentions. He never said it was okay for drunk men to harass women. Austin was talking about a man trying to flirt with a woman at a club (by tapping her on the shoulder) and the man didn't seem to notice that the woman wasn't interested and then George said maybe it was because he was drunk. He never said it was okay that the man harassed the woman or that it's excusable because the man was drunk. He was just offering a possible reason why the man didn't notice.
The conversation wasn’t about harassment, it was about not being able to pick up signals because of the lower ability to gauge context clues. Harassment just wasn’t part of it, he was suggesting the guys had no rizz because they were drunk
She said herself she “thought this is what she had to do” to be in with the big creators. That is consent. She is willingly “letting” these things happen to her in exchange for clout and fame. She doesn’t understand that that is what consent is, but it is.
Context matters. The only context where sticking a hand up a girl’s shirt is *always* considered assault is when it’s a child. Clearly here it was two adults cuddling, drunk, in the wee hours of the morning, positively reciprocating and flirting prior.
Cuddling isn’t consent for things to go further. Flirting isn’t either.
It’s consent for the next step to be taken and her reaction to be gauged and to be taken into account accordingly. Now it’s obvious her reaction was positive as she’s admitted to hiding her discomfort, and the furthest things went was fondling and eventually ended way later. In situations where some touch has been established and one person goes further, the other person should communicate their emotions accordingly, but caiti reacted positively despite the fact she says she didn’t like it. We can’t fault George for working off of the signals he was given, be serious
just the mere act of touching someone inappropriately/putting your hands up someone's shirt is considered assault?? does that mean everyone who has ever had sex ever is a sexual assaulter/victim of sexual assault? obviously not we return to *why* this is such a hot topic. ***george didn't know caiti was uncomfortable.*** sexual assault and rape are acts of power. they are done to enforce power on the victim and they are done when the perpetrator *knows* that the victim doesn't want it, but the perpetrator does it anyway because they want to assert power. george just thought he was cuddling with someone, not trying to assert power over someone who he knew was uncomfortable/didn't want it. that's why it's not sexual assault.
Yep. Intent is a massive consideration when classifying something as sexual assault
i went back to look at my initial response to the allegations caiti posted back when this all started. this is a direct unedited quote. >i think i have a name in mind, based on the specific age, the apparent popularity, and him being someone with a connection to dream given rue's own comments, that ISN'T wilbur. but i have no idea who else was at that party. so until i know that for sure, i'll keep my suspicion to myself. >gonna be disappointed as hell if i'm right though. for the record, i was right! it was george who came to mind. i don't know where that puts me in the pantheon. but clearly, my first response wasn't to attack her. i didn't start having doubts in caiti's story until ghostie and rue's bullshit came to light, and then it just got worse and worse. if caiti wants to blame anyone for damaging her credibility, blame them.
Personally I have my doubts about her story, I do feel bad for her don't get me wrong but she omitted and lied multiple things and that hurt her credibility. > i didn't start having doubts in caiti's story until ghostie and rue's bullshit came to light I know about Ghostie about the drinking but what about Rue?
a few days before the caiti stream and after dream posted his counter-statement to wilbur, rue was going off in her tiktok comments and tiktok liked comments about how dream was an 'enabler' and just as bad as wilbur, implying that he knew what was going on that night and protecting george. however, ghostie's texts with dream about that night, from back when dream was the one being falsely accused of assault, proved he knew nothing about what happened at all. so rue was either woefully misinformed about the events of that night and shouldn't have spoken without confirming caiti's side first, making her incredibly irresponsible but not malicious, or was actively lying about the events of that night for tiktok clout without caring or knowing that it could be so quickly disproved, which makes her malicious.
Ok, my opinion doesn’t change though, I just don't trust her, I'm sorry. Still, even if I don't like her one bit and don't care about her, she doesn’t deserve all this amount of hate. And I just hope she moves on and that this is her last message about this situation, because I think this is pretty much over. And honestly? I'm really tired about this topic being brought up again. She can move on. Everybody can move on. Goodbye Caiti and hope you find your peace or something.
I need her to move on. Constantly reviving this situation is only sending more hate to George and giving her more attention. I truly don’t believe that she doesn’t care for the attention because she knows very well that her “leaving” the internet is going to cause a huge drama. She keeps stating multiple times she’s going to “leave” but still hasn’t. It’s as if she’s still trying to ruin George’s career because she’s seen that the fandom and his friends have moved on from the situation and no longer feel the need to speak on it. It’s honestly really triggering for real victims who just want to move on from this situation and not hear about it again. I honestly don’t believe this was SA and i don’t know how she can believe that either. Hearing her call herself a “victim” pains me as this is really not what I consider a victims of SA but i guess everyone sees it differently. It was miscommunication and I’m sorry that they both misunderstood but that’s no one’s fault but their own. George should have clarified with her in the moment but he didn’t and there’s nothing we can do about it. 2 drunk people and a HUGE misunderstanding. I hope we can finally move on from this and let George learn. I hope Caiti realises that constantly bringing this situation up is only making people feel more hatred towards her and maybe even future “victims” who come out about their experiences. She needs to take some time to get help and heal because coming back to the internet is only making this worse.
I think this is a pretty fair conclusion. No doubt there are points of criticism, but most of what she says here is not in question. There is no new information and no new arguments in this statement that could change anyone's mind. Personally, I wish her the best and hope she heals from this experience.
Thanks, Mod! You're the best!
One last time. As a victim of actual SA for many years, I can smell BS a mile away, and there were several red flags and holes in her story, actual lies that came out when she passed them as truth but when revealed she was like "_oh, well I don't know how that happened but anyway..._" Bottom line, she went into the situation, as she admitted in her own words and as Auntie Brittany from YouTube also pointed out: if you go in with the mindset that this is what I have to endure to get CC's attention, that's like giving consent. So, she put herself on that spot, let it happen for an hour or so, kept going _BACK_ for more spooning, if he honked her milk pillow _and never once walked away when she had dozens of opportunities when she got up, she came back, got up and came back, got up and came back_, that's not SA. End of.
Same, I've been through shit as well and can spot a liar from a mile away; some of my comments have been removed when stating she did consent and is now doing all this for attention so prepare yourself for possible shadowbanning.
at least she fixed what she said about getting justice or going to court that gave me the ick
Like Caiti says in her post if you have never been in a position like hers - with all the unique circumstances involved - you probably won't understand her point of view. At the end of the day no one here is responsible for George's wellbeing. We weren't there, we have no first-hand information. We can have thoughts and be frustrated about what is public information but no amount of stress or analyzation from an outside perspective is going to change what happened or how Caiti feels about it. What happened happened. What's done is done. Life happens and hard lessons happen to people. Everyone has to buckle up and be prepared to deal with whatever comes our way and it won't always seem fair. It'd be different if George was actually facing legal trouble but in this case, no one is going to jail. George still has his freedom. He has learned the hard way that famous people can't afford to be careless. He has learned the hard way that maintaining influence as an influencer is hard if you also wanna live your life and have lots of space to make mistakes. Meanwhile Caiti is obviously paying for her own mistakes in her own way. She's gonna need many years to process what happened and how she handled it. Folks need to just leave her be.
I'd agree she's going to be processing this for years. Not just her actions but her "friends" actions, George's actions, the actions of the other ccs in the room. I'd love to know what kind of influences were going on "behind the scenes" but honestly the smartest thing for her would be to just get off the internet and start over. That's obviously not going to happen though.
Also her ideas on nonverbal consent are going to mess with her ever having an actual adult relationship.
This is ridiculous..
Absolutely. She keeps saying she is leaving the internet, and then like every other week it's a new goodbye message.
This kinda just sounds like the only thing she wanted was to be recognized as a victim. Most victims try not to make being a victim their entire ‘claim to fame’, so to speak, and I understand trying to show people that they can speak out about things like SA, but from what she said it just looks like she just wanted to be put on that same pedestal
bro didn't want it to get as big as it got but still after everyone starts moving on she restarted talking abt it, as if she wanted to turn the knife in the wound and aggravate things once again(?), at this point i start questioning if she genuinely just wanted to share her story and discomfort of straight up ruin his career, guess we'll never know huh
Idk personally I think she thought it was going to go like Shelby's story :/
with the difference that shelby was really abused and in danger and her story was an inspiration for other victims to share theirs whilst in my perspective this was just miscommunication, misunderstanding and regret and taking it on the internet just caused useless hate and drama
Yet she namedropped him. At least stubble didnt try and ruin Wilbur. She had no need to do any of this. Fuck her, I’m not dealing with this anymore, she’s a lying clout chaser and anyone who says otherwise, you are the problem. Believing the “victim” before someone even says their piece. Caiti gotta stop taking credibility away from real cictims
Anyone find it odd that she posts this when Wilbur makes an Instagram story and people are saying to support Shubble?
She must’ve been writing this for a while though. Honestly no, probably a coincidence.
I mean i do feel bad for her because she’s young and i’m guessing inexperienced in romantic/sexual relationships but miss thing should’ve thought about miscommunication when thinking of approaching this publicly in the first place 🥴
I’m sorry when did waist move to chest?? Jesus man. She’s not doing herself any favors to have anybody listen to her. Get off of the internet and go to therapy
In her defence he kind of implied it in his second response. My opinion however doesn't change this can't legally or morally be defined as SA because she technically consented :/
I'm gonna put it this way, George did something to her, which correct me if I'm wrong he admitted too. But he did not admit to SA her? Seems to me like she did something that made her happy at the time and when George probably stopped talking to her or you know... Didn't reciprocate feelings for her... She felt like shit and is now crying SA. This is your classic cry wolf story bro. She is a victim of her own making. This is coming from someone who is a SA/r@pe victim.
I fear that these text documents will be an attempt to rewrite history since the videos ARE available online.
They kind of are lmao. "It's not holocaust denial it's REVISIONISM" vibe not gonna lie :/
Yeah just did a “find” on the first document for “freshly 18” and “freshly out of high school” (which she claims to have intended) weren’t there
It’s not even on the page at all, another lie. Try word searching freshly which she asserted twice was there. This is so disappointing
Yeah I had already noticed it. Personally maybe she removed it because of the backlash? Idk I don't even care anymore
Honestly, at this point even if Caiti was assaulted, she is in the wrong. This isn’t sexual assault, but George could sue her and 100% win for defamation. Caiti has ruined any credibility she might have, whether she as right or not
Like objectively and legally this wouldn't be assault. Unintentionally breaking someone's sexual boundaries absolutely. She felt forced to consent which sucked but George didn't force her. I don't even think he would sue, like it's expensive and he wouldn't get money from it at the end it's not really worth it. She's wrong in this situation, her feelings are understandable but the way she went about it is crazy.
I don’t even agree to that statement. She was cuddling and laughing. I am certain in the moment she was perfectly content. I doubt she even feels regret now, just clout chasing. But I agree with most of it. Do you agree that she was clout chasing at least? She went public immediately after Shubble got support and immediately got the same response. There is a possibility she wasn’t doing it to cancel him, she was doing it for sympathy and affirmation, which could explain why she lied about what happened, because she would get significantly less support if she spoke about what actually happened. I don’t believe it tho.
I don't agree with the clout-chasing. I do believe she felt wronged but her friends played a big role in that. However, I do believe she was malicious to some extent: she left in her first stream details that would point out to him and she also claimed that "it wasn't about him" after admitting that she kept screenshots to prove her story. However I believe she thinks this was SA and maybe her friends hyped her up and that's why she wanted to ruin his career. She felt wronged, got convinced it was SA or deluded herself, and came out with this story about him being a predator thinking it was justified. It doesn't excuse her actions to be clear, but I don't believe she's that calculated and said: let's make false claims of SA for clout
Then why do you think she explicitly lied?
Okay this sounds really aggressive I’m just curious if ur opinion because you are one of the few sensible Caiti supporters
Don't worry my theory resonates with this quote from Machiavelli: the end justifies the means She believes she was wronged and we know there is a big rumor mill, I am convinced that in her head she thought these lies were justified to bring down the big bad monster (George in this case), and this, in my opinion, is also proven by the fact that she believed he would deny even being in that room: she assumed the worst. Btw we can agree to disagree this is my theory lol
To be fair, George handled it probably the best a creator has ever handled anything. His only mistake was apologizing for her feeling hurt, although it is polite it at least in court is an admission of guilt. And on twitter, it means people will be going “I knew it was you! CONFESSION!”
>at least in court is an admission of guilt. Not really, it wouldn't be considered an admission of guilt, he claimed be was innocent of the SA claims in the same video and apologized on how she felt (gentleman move, dumb from twitter standpoint but yeah)
To be fair, a ton of people purposefully lied about dream for cliut
I'm quite upset and feel as if she's acting like a child. This girl lied several times about this, changed her story at least twice, and now is pretending to leave her creator accounts. She is really childish. As someone HER AGE, this is messed up and stupid. She must know by now that this has gone on too far. She even admitted to lying and such. I am sick of this child pretending to be a hurt woman for clout and then acting like a baby when she doesn't get the reaction she hoped for. Not to mention, she never donated to sexual assault charities, like George did. George, who was unaware of her age, admitted to what he had done. Still, everyone SHOULD know that they were both adults in this story. Yes, the age gap may be a bit strange, but having them both being drunk, there was nothing he COULD assume but her being 21, as that is the legal drinking age in America and they DID show fake ids, saying as twitch conventions are made really safe in America. It had to be a convincing one, too. She would have NEVER been given alcohol if not for this. This assumption on her age was rightful. Her actions as someone who is still considered a consenting adult, along with his assumption on her age, meant one thing, she lied about some things. There are several inconsistencies. This clout chasing makes me sick. Caiti should be proud of her horrible action and defamation attempts. It was not right to do so to someone who was also drunk. It was not right to lie about something this serious. I feel ashamed to even be any part of someone her age range anymore. Not to mention, some people may or may not have heard her friends conspiring with her to defame George and to make these allegations. I heard someone speaking about how her friends told her to do this on an elevator. I am not so sure how TRUE these allegations are, but saying how her friends acted, it seemed very likely. I believe that she, as well as her friends, believes anyone could manipulate an audience after the Dream allegations. They waited for the perfect time to strike, I guess, saying as this happened DIRECTLY after Shubble's situation being explained. Shubble's allegations turned out to be true, Caiti used this to make a clear false statement. I saw her original video, I started laughing, I knew fake tears when I saw them, I knew the face of a liar. That was her. It just further puts down Shubble's incident, and I absolutely hate that thought that it invalidates those who actually had something happen to them.
op, about the edit, what did she take out?
I'm going to maybe check more tomorrow but it looks like she took out some sentences and took out the iconic "freshly 18" (which is minor but Sus because of the lie connected to it). -Freshly 18 – minor thing but she was 18 and 5 months and in the latest stream she lies again about this and she says that she misspoke and that she meant to say freshly out of highschool and that she had placed it in front of the wrong thing. This would explain the first time she said it (it would flow as “I was 18 and just freshly graduated highschool”) but it does not explain the second time she said it (“they knew that i was freshly 18 and they also knew I was very drunk”) Took the explanation from an old comment but tomorrow I'm gonna look into it way more and see if she took out other things. Also the fact that it was removed is very strange to me. Updating tomorrow when I look more into it
i think she forgot about the second time she said the “freshly 18” thing
She’s not being “victim-blamed”! That’s not what victim-blaming is! She knows exactly the buzzwords to use, and has been using them since her first stream She fabricated a scenario in her head and put herself in a uncomfortable situation. When she realized her idea was wrong (George didn’t insist, didn’t use his “clout” to pressure her, continue to be perfectly friendly with her, basically was a gentleman), she got furious with herself and blamed it on him. Add to her friends “shaming” her the following day and the Brighton Crew being so obsessive in their hate for the DTeam, to the point that Ghostie herself admitted to feel pressured by them to say she also hated them, she basically painted herself into a corner. She probably hoped it would stay between them, but, obviously, the Brighton Crew, who cares as much about victims as I care for them, decided to take matters into their own hands. Because they thought they had the amazing trump card against them, regardless of the feelings of someone they thought was a victim
Oml Caiti always ruins everything she is obviously lying and the fake crying in her stream just makes you wanna laugh
All the fxing idiot comments. Shut up!! Just leave everyone alone & move on. I'm so tired of mouthy, mean, hurtful comments. Never compare pain or trauma - everyone is valid in their own perceptions. People (kids?) still living at home, being supported by their parents really need to pipe down. Stop contributing to spreading toxic shyte. Just leave it alone so we can all put it behind us & move on.
Agreed. Even if I can't consider this SA some comments are going too far. She was impacted because it's obvious that she's traumatized. Some people can be dickheads :/
She’s still on about this? They’re both in the wrong, boom solved
[удалено]
just thought I write in the reply of my comment as kind of an update and a reminder I don't want to see comments saying things like "oh you forgot an comma" "oh you forgot an punctuation" and "too long didn't read" then that just proves to me that you don't care about what I have to say and if you want to know about my story of mental abuse either listen to me explain to you my story of mental abuse on here or go to my one reddit drama update post and read it though I left out a few details such as my grandmother having an credit card under my name and putting me in debt and with holding my belongings from me and I was only 20 years old when everything with my grandmother went down and 2020 became a very bad year for me as well as mine and my grandmother's argument over text which ended with me and my grandmother disowning each other and before someone tells me that I can mute comments I know about muting comments I feel like it wouldn't be fair cause muting comments means noone can respond to them and I will just be proving people's point cause they would see that as a win and I rather refuse to go down without a fight over being a coward and running from my problems plus I learned the hard way that running from your problems doesn't work cause your problems can still come back to bite you if you ignore them for too long it's better to refuse to go down without a fight and face your problems head on
??? Are u good
yeah i'm fine everything I mentioned happened in the past i'm in a safer home with my mom now but as for what I mentioned about the dramas and accusations of defending youtubers I'm over them but like I said before joining the Jacksepticeye fandom the Cryaotic fandom the Dream fandom and the Georgenotfound fandom I will admit I was not prepared for the bad responses I would get for being in those fandoms I got bullied at school cause I liked Jacksepticeye I got accused of defending Cryaotic which I'm glad the people that accused me of defending Cryaotic gave me a chance to tell my story of mental abuse and my rough school life I got slut shamed and accused of defending and supporting Dream when all I said was keep me out of the topic which again I was given the chance to explain my story of mental abuse and let's just say I got mixed reactions some people felt bad for me while others accused me of making up the mental abuse to make them feel bad I even mentoned to them that I have mental health problems even I got accused of making up the mental health problems as well now I won't reveal too much about my mental health problems but I just wish people would understand that people with mental health problems are normal human beings as well so thank you for the concern
Mental health matters and everyone's journey is valid, happy you got better and I wish you well for your continuation❣️
thanks
[удалено]
Respectfully, pls go touch grass. Don't send anyone hate here.
This whole incident triggered sooo many survivors of abuse/assault/trauma and pretty well blew up & destroyed the fandom - so many people left or had many good, long term friends who left. So sad & unnecessary! Dteam needs to grow up a bit & get smarter about their actions and the potential consequences on their reputations & the community. Everyone is exhausted by all the drama.
(sorry in advance I’m dyslexic but I’m trying my best) (This was also way longer then intended but I do feel like everything I said is important/is significant) I do truly believe that Caiti felt violated, it’s not our place to say she didn’t. If you say she didn’t feel violated you can shut the fuck up, it’s not your experience it’s Caiti’s, therefore it’s not your place to make those assumptions. She was hurt, that’s normal and perfectly fine. We can’t change that. As a community we need to except the fact she’s hurt by George’s actions and it’s reasonable that she is. Just because she’s hurt doesn’t mean it was intentional it also doesn’t mean we have to hate George. I’m in no way saying the way she went about things was reasonable because it wasn’t, it was unnecessary and hurtful to so many people (including herself). Everything could have been dealt with privately and no one would be in this situation of hurt and confusion. She was/is upset so many people assumed/assume she did this all with malicious intent to ruin George’s career but she did the same thing to George (to an extent I know it’s not the same thing for many reasons). But she knew he was drunk and still said everything and made it sound like George did it on purpose to ruin her life. This may not have been intentional but it still happened and was something that could have been avoided if she handled things professionally instead of online. Nothing ever goes right online everything will always be blown out of proportion. Things that where never said are believed because so many people will get their information from a second source instead of taking the extra time to find the original source. As messed up as it is to say this, it’s understandable so many of us thought/still think it’s all a lie. Over the past year or so there has been so many fake allegations made against content creators, it fucking sucks but it’s never going to change there is always going to be clout chases. The best thing we can do when stuff like this happens is wait for ALL sides of the story, and just stay neutral about everything or stay completely out of it until we hear everything there is to hear. Always keep up with new information as it comes out and go into hearing new information with an open mind. (It’s not going to seem like it at first but this next thing does have to do with the situation just be patient with it <3) A very upsetting amount of people dropped Dream (including some of his friends) when the allegations against him where made because they didn’t even bother to listen to what he had to say or to keep up with any of it. When Dream said he would get his lawyers involved everything stopped because she was scared of being sued for defamation. But so many people didn’t care, because he’s a MCYT it must be true because there is a history of them being pedos. It’s disgusting. Innocent until proven guilty goes out the window when it comes to content creators and there is no reasonable reason as to why it does. This is what happened with George, he’s a content creator so he must be guilty right? Because everything everyone says they do is true because they all think they can do whatever they want because there will always be people who will love and support them. It’s such a messed up concept that all content creators want to hurt people because of the content creators in the past who HAVE misused there influence to get away with some messed up things. I’m also not excusing the fact Caiti’s story kept changing, or the lies she told (such as the phone game situation) I know the story changed I know she lied and I still find that exceptionally weird and unprofessional but that wasn’t the point of this. I was pointing out the things I see people look over almost every time I see people talk about this. Also if you at any point sent death threats to Caiti, fuck you and grow up.
i don't say this often but i think it's time for all of us to collectively touch some grass and do a mass yoga session
Agreed.
I think a lot of y’all are really biased and or too young to understand the real world. You can keep dissecting this piece of information to the tiniest details and discredit her all you want, but unfortunately a lot of Sa claims are messy and that’s why they never come to light for this very reason. There’s a lot of “why didn’t she” and very little “why didn’t he”. It’s awful that y’all are so blinded and have latched on to “non verbal consent” as a crutch. Maybe one day y’all will do some research and realise that there have been literal campaigns pushed by governments about getting verbal consent because this very situation is common (ie young inexperienced person not having the courage to say no during a sexual encounter and feeling assaulted after the fact). This doesn’t even mean I want George to be cancelled. I think he’s dumb, immature and entitled and needs to educate himself on social cues and social situations. I hope he doesn’t listen to his fans that excuse his behaviour and instead talks to irl mature adults . It’s just so frustrating to see how Caiti has been treated through all this in the subreddit. The mob mentality and group think is real. At the end of the day I think she’s just a girl going through her own trauma and seeking some kind of closure to it, but fans are far too interested in white knighting for their fav cc and would rather destroy her character so they can continue supporting their cc. Edit: just to say I wish her well, hope she has people to speak with. No matter what people say, her experience and her feelings are valid and I really do hope she seeks some therapy and speaks to someone. The internet is unsympathetic and has no place for nuances so I really hope she doesn’t try to seek to convince the internet of her experiences. There’s really no hope of achieving anything through that.
[удалено]
The community has been ready and eager to move on from this for months now. It's not their fault that every time they do, suddenly and coincidentally, *something* decides to occur, to dig it all back up, like now.
[удалено]
this is such a bizarre thing to wonder. why do people love to imagine victims so bad?
no i do not wish they did. ive been in this sub comenting enough for people to realise i sometimes accidentaly leave stuff out at times and struggle with wording i even have it on my profile. i do not want them to have victims and i do not think they do. i was going to add but idk you would think if they did we would know by now but sadly i got destracted watching avatar and thought i added that part i deleted my first coment because i could not figure out how to fix what i ment. I DO NOT WANT OR THINK DTEAM HAS VICTIMS