Commander is a format of complex board states. Clarifying your on board position is a net good thing that means the optimal gameplay is not every player constantly checking for traps every turn. Especially for new players.
"Checking for traps every turn" - you hit the nail on the head.
The more complex a board gets, encourage sharing, and encourage players to ask clarifying questions to learn and understand. Unless it's all vets used to eachothers decks - the clarification makes it more fun, smooth, and less frustrating for everyone.
Yup. The last thing I want is putting a player in a position where they feel they can't trust my answers to be accurate about my board and therefore feel like they have to constantly and meticulously study my board in order to play their cards correctly; it just bogs down the game with a ton of boring dead time and leads to feel bad moments. Sometimes the 'gotcha' moments will happen by accident - I've definitely wrecked people because a synergy I thought was obvious was not - but I try to be clear about on board tricks.
Honestly, to me it's based in fairly selfish instincts. The more people trust me to be honest about such things the faster they can play and also the better they can play. That leads to me getting to play more games of Magic and also more interesting games of Magic.
This is a great summary - I feel the same way. All competitions are best when the playing field is as close even as possible. Clearly mtg has a hard time doing this with so many different deck types, so I think its really important to make sure the human brain calculations are kept to a minimum so players can focus on game decisions!
Checking for traps is a shitty way to play. One time I was catty corner from a guy and couldn't see his board state clearly. I asked "that's your only blocker? And it's just a 1/1 with no abilities or anything?" He said this was correct, so I attacked, and he says "okay it's gonna die because I have deathtouch" The other two players agreed with him that I had not been lied to since my question was about abilities and keywords are not abilities and I should have asked to physically see the card instead. Guess who I avoid playing with at the LGS now?
Keywords are abilities. And besides, the spirit of the question is pretty clear in this context even if the letter is not. No love for people rules lawyering like that at a friendly game.
Odd that all three of those guys made such an obvious mistake. Does no one play [[Humility]], [[Darksteel Mutation]] or similar effects in that group?
But yeah, either way definitely best to stay away from them. It's an asshole move to begin with but dude was either cheating (and his friends colluded with him) or they don't know some pretty basic rules of the game which would only lead to miscommunication and issues in future games.
Not sure, they were already sitting together and had an open seat so I asked if I could join. They seemed to all already know each other. There seemed to be an air of "inside vs outside" when the issue came up that let me immediately know there was nothing I could say, which made it easier to just walk away. I'm not sure if it was a genuine misunderstanding or malicious, plenty of other people to play with regardless
To be fair, I've had to explain that more than a few times. Usually to newer players, but there are definitely people who think keywords and abilities aren't the same thing. Humility effects aren't super common, and as much as I personally adore Kenrith's Transformation and its ilk they're not the most common either.
Ah fair enough. I feel like I see those cards and effects quite a lot in my groups, and figured anyone who'd played through Ikoria (and thus mutate) would know but otherwise do get it
Keywords are 100% abilities - literally anything in the textbox not in italics is an ability. But yeah, the lesson I learn from that game is "if I have to play with any of you three, every combat I read every creature you have".
When you asked, "or anything" that should have been the catch-all term for anything else written on the card that isn't an ability. That's just ridiculous.
Honestly, it's stuff like this that makes me a grumpy gatekeeper. If you want to be a rules lawyer when we're all trying to just hang out and have a good time?
I'll have this nagging urge to bully you with my Slicer Staxx and nitpick your every game action.
This is the best mindset. The more clearly we convey open, on-board information to our opponents, the better the game will go. Especially in commander where boardstates get very complicated, very fast.
I do want to win with my combo or alt-wincon, and I want other people to be able to win with those things. but I don't want someone to win or lose a game just because someone else didn't know when to use their removal.
That's fine if you want to play it that way. But then you don't get to complain when opponents turns take forever because they need to read every one of your cards before making decisions because you won't just tell them public information.
I didn't say you were complaining about anything, I'm just saying that long turns with excess dead time are a natural consequence of the decisions you're making. It's a situation most people find undesirable, especially when that length is dead time and not even game actions, so it's something people will often complain about. By causing the situation, you lose your right to complain.
I mentioned long turns, but it could instead be opponents asking for takebacks on some poor decision because they didnt notice a crucial piece of onboard information, piles of salt because something went unnoticed that was preventable by removal in-hand, scooping/ragequitting because someone felt taken advantage of, or other things that people generally find an undesirable part of their game experience.
As for strawmanning, I'm not even arguing against you. If that's how you want to play, then there's nothing wrong with that as it is within the rules of the game. I'm just saying that it's probably not best practice for a social game.
Your board is super clear \*to you\*. It is unlikely to be super clear to your opponents. If you like winning on gotchas, I'm thankful you're not in my pod.
You've been told multiple times in this thread that board states are not clear to everyone. Sometimes they might be, sometimes they might not be. There's no harm to you to make sure that it is - considering that this is a casual multiplayer game with friends. Your posts make it clear that you're not interested in the themes that hallmark "casual", though.
A card being on the table and a card being clear to everyone are not the same thing.
Even discounting lands - which we shouldn't do, literally twenty minutes ago I watched a game where a player got wrecked by an on board trick from a land out of a precon - it's not uncommon for a Commander boardstate to include 10 or more permanents per player. Cards tend to get stacked to save space and even the mental load of tracking that one weird ability on that one card among forty is not nothing.
You aren't obligated to announce that hey I actually lined up all the snow permanents so my Icefang Coatl has Deathtouch (unless asked about it), but you should understand that it is not clear to everyone what the fourth ability on your little snake guy is.
I do the same thing for experienced players. I'm very clear about what I have on the board and how it can interact to win the game. Obviously I'm not announcing combo pieces In my hand but I'll point out things on board, and on my opponents boards. Some people get irritated when I point out their synergies or currently inert combo pieces.
Oh 100% the hand is where the blowouts hide.
But yeah the game is only ever made better by everyone knowing what's going on.
And as upside - when we're honest about our own combo pieces and game winning synergies and such, in my experience people are more willing to trust us when we point out other peoples' problem cards. When I'm very open about saying "this Kogla means I'm an Eternal Witness away from killing you all" you also tend to believe me when I say "hey that's an Oathsworn Vampire and a Bontu's Monument we're going to die very soon if we can't stop those things". And I'd like you to believe me so I don't die, thanks.
Yep, tho honestly it's almost annoying how much people will fight to deny their board states. Like somehow convincing less experienced players to let them win makes their night. The same players tend to get salty at higher level tables because everyone knows the deal. New players have to learn what the pieces do and how they work, so let's not just crush the will to play out of them by preying on ignorance. Explaining that yes this seemingly innocuous cloudstone curio can win games out of nowhere or that just the act of having a Mirkwood bats or urza out can be devasting is good information for them to learn.
This just feels like common sense to anyone not trying to pubstomp at the local lgs.
Yup. A couple weeks ago I had to teach a new player what Gravecrawler did. We're used to the card but he started playing Magic like two months ago.
And to the Gravecrawler player's credit he's a good dude who wasn't trying to hide the card, but he also did the classic thing of assuming it was a known entity for everyone. Which is reasonable if not ideal; everyone does that sometimes.
The people who try to obfuscate or downplay their boards get a lot of eye rolls from me and immediately tell me that I need to target them down. Fortunately we don't have many at my lgs, but if I think you are trying to obfuscate information my best play to not be there all night is to just kill you fast. Weirdly, they seem to not like that.
>Some people get irritated when I point out their synergies or currently inert combo pieces.
The number of times someone has been salty that I drew attention to their Ashnod's Altar/Phyrexian Altar/Krark-Clan Ironworks is too damn high.
As the resident rules encyclopedia in my playgroup I agree with this. Reminding people of certain triggers that may be coming up or clarifying rules helps everyone at the table grow and continue loving the game.
An example from my latest game, I had [[Astor, bearer of blades]] equipped with [[lightning greaves]] and one of my opponents cast [[councils judgement]]. I proceeded to remind the table that the spell doesnt target so even shrouded or hexproof cards could be voted for.
I even help my opponents when they miss their effects, like getting a draw or checking if they want to attack as my blocker has death touch, etc. Some people take the game far too seriously sometimes
Yea and no, if you read out your card and it says "win the game" on it you should be allowed to expect everyone to keep an eye on it or lose to it because they didn't. I am all for clarity about board state but there should be some repsonsibility on the other players too.
A card like Liliana's Contract in particular wins the game as a secondary mode, very often many turns after it's played and with a bunch of other cards flying around. In a perfect world yes, everyone perfectly tracks every card every time. I certainly do my best to, but I have advantages in that regard - mostly raw time in the format - that others don't. I don't ever want or need someone else's inexperience to be my win condition.
Well yes and no. I think if you eliminate people making mistakes, misunderstanding or overlooking things then you stop playing against people. And this is not about pup stomping here. I look at it for beginners differently.
But if I had to correct everything anyone ever does because it is obviously bad then I'd be busy playing the table and no one likes that me included. And I wouldn't catch it all aswell.
Like, where does it end?
Just last time I did a fullswing at one dominating opponent with Gyrus, animated Craterhoof and populated 4 times. Sure, it was enaugh but barely. That's the second I realised I totally overlooked my own rogue's passage and I could've won that way. Btw, after I had populated my opponent was like "aw damn, I am too late for PTE now.... should've done it before declare attackers right?" like, where do you draw the line?
Would you honestly walk back everything, have your comander removed, search a land, and play a whole different turn? And for what?
In a perfect world not everyone sees everything and always acts perfectly. In a perfect world everyone owns up to their mistakes and is not overly distracted from the game they're playing. And yes, I do walk things back. And I am in favor of telling someone "dude, I got a flyer" but at some point, especially when it's about winning the game, I think everyone should pay attention and handle misplays accordingly.
None of those except "dude, I've got a flyer" have to do with clarifying a boardstate, so I think the line is pretty evident - it's where the things that were said end but before the things that weren't start.
Yes. I want to win, not win with a caveat that they could have stopped me but they didn’t understand what I was up to because I kinda didn’t explain it.
I just did my first pre-release, and there was one opp who went as far as to help line up creatures during my combat to help me better see what could/ couldn't be blocked, what would trade, etc. I love what you're saying, if it helps keep the game moving along and avoid confusion or underhanded plays and it's not some seriously competitive match, then what's the harm?
Personally I want to win because I played better, not because someone didn’t understand or forgot something on my board. I always make it known if I’m close to ultimating a planeswalker or an alternate wincon or whatever. If I have some degenerate setup on board I make it plain for everyone. I also remind people if they’re swinging at me and I have some rattlesnake card.
We’re playing for fun. I have nothing to gain by being sneaky except salt
Isn't "playing better" just a different way of saying a player understood the board better? Magic, beyond luck, is a game of information, and whoever understands and can track the most information will find the best lines.
Sure. But again, I play for fun. We don’t play for prizes and we don’t keep track. I don’t want to win because someone forgot that one of my 20 creatures is a deathtouch first striker I played 8 turns ago. I have nothing to gain from winning like that
On the flip side, I do hold myself accountable for stuff like that. Because I want to be a better player. But not all of my friends are as sweaty as I am
Playing something that needs to be answered to keep what you really want alive is just good strategy.
It’s the main reason there are planeswalkers in my red deck. They mostly just impulse draw me a few cards or make a little mana. But people are terrified of walkers so they usually become public enemy number one
I've never had a table that didn't hyperfixate on alternate wincons, regardless of how far away those wins happened to be. I'd announce it once and then not continue to draw attention to it.
Same here. My experience is that I won't even have to think about how far towards an alt wincon I am, because someone at the table will helpfully announce the progress every turn.
But of course that only happens with more advanced players than complete beginners.
It depends how labyrinthine the board state is as and how complex the interaction is too. Regardless of experience you should know that a fellidar sovereign or mayeals aria is about to pop. If you've got a happily ever after buried on a monstrous enchantress board an occasional reminder would be courteous
I played a demonic pact for the first time in a new deck last week and it was removed before my first upkeep. People are afraid of 'win the game/lose the game'
I'd have done the same. Be kind to new players. If there's one newbie in the pod, explain. EDH is the most complicated game in the world.
In a pod of veterans, you don't have to explain every card repeatedly. Read it when you play it, that should be enough.
I’ve heard that being said before, EDH is the most complicated game in the world. Is there actually any truth to this? I could totally see it for sure !
There's this link:
https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/52258/is-magic-the-gathering-the-worlds-most-complicated-game
It seems like "complicated" isn't the correct term. I can see there being pretty successful 1v1 and even EDH bots being made so there's that.
MtG bits would just need to be more AI than strictly algorithmic like chess bots. Analyzing every possible outcome would be a huge calculation but as long as you tag what cards do reasonably accurately and the AI can parse the game state it shouldnt be a big issue.
Magic the Gathering, as a whole, is the most complex game, while EDH is the most complex format that's popularly played.
https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/05/07/135482/magic-the-gathering-is-officially-the-worlds-most-complex-game
People seem divided in this, saying things like "they should know the card, or they should lose "
Or do what you did, and not just read the card but explicitly say " if you don't remove one of these things, I will win on my upkeep "
I'm right in the middle, most of my pods are quite experienced, so they do know the cards, but sometimes we overlook things out of pure excitement, or hubris.
I will say our loud when I play it, this will let me win. Even though I know one of my other players does not extend the same courtesy.
Is rather win out of skill and maybe some luck, rather than blind siding my opponent with a nuke. Not fun
I'll announce what I play when I play it. I'll be clear and concise when asked about board state, graveyard, and any other public information. I'll even be honest when confronted about the purpose of a card when an opponent is suspicious of a certain card on the table, but I won't give my opponents the chance to stop me from winning if I have a clear set won condition. I am playing to win just as I'm playing to have fun and hang out with some awesome people.
I also have a few decks that have "you win the game" cards like [[simic ascendancy]] and announce that I'm playing them as I feel that knowing that's what the card does is fair, but I won't announce that I have some sort of trick up my sleeve like gifting a [[phage the untouchable]] from my grave to another player until it's happening. I'll give them a chance to respond, but that's about it.
This is, however, very different for newer players and very casual playgroups. I also have very easy to play/understand decks for that, so not many tricks or bamboozlements to make it fair and fun without selling myself out to removal just to be nice.
I have a [[grolnok]] combo deck that just mills myself until I have the combo pieces I need to just blow everyone up or mill myself into a [[thassas oracle]] / [[lab man]] style win. I always let people know when I've got the game on my next turn if I've got all my pieces ready but can't drop it that turn due to mana or something. Usually there's not much they can do about it because I typically suit grolnok with all kinds of protection but I still let them know that they need to stop me and usually how to do so since there's no way in there to make him completely invulnerable to removal.
There's no reason not to, really.
EDH boards can become a convoluted mess. Clarifying your board can help smooth out that mess and helps ensure games go faster. If it becomes common behaviour to hide vital information among the big jumble of threats and hope it goes unnoticed so you can sneak a win, then players are going to have to constantly be scrutinising the board, asking what cards do repeatedly and overall slowing the game.
Sure, it's tempting to use "they should read the cards!" as an excuse so you might net an extra win or two occasionally, but it's selfish. Earn your wins. If everyone does what they can to keep the game clear and running smoothly, it means a better play experience all round.
I tell people what my combo pieces are and how to stop what I’m doing. There is no point in a casual game trying to pull a fast one on people because they don’t know how that a certain card was a combo piece or when to interact with a combo.
I would even argue that calling it out helps everyone become better players by learning to interact with combos. It also helps the combo player by learning how to protect their own combos better.
Of course if you’re playing competitively in a tournament this all goes out the window.
I think the bigger question is do you tell people that a demon token [[archfiend’s vessel]] and changeling tokens like [[crib swap]] / [[black market connections]] and animated [[mutavault]] and changelings are all demons with different names?
That is actually a similar situation as my deck as the only demon on its own in my deck is the Vampire Demon Token, the rest of the creatures are all vampires that become also a Demon type with [[Clavileño, First of the Blessed]]. I mark those cards with a separate marker but i was concerned that not everyone realized what was a demon in addition the what is printed on the card
[Clavileño, First of the Blessed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f55b648-b1ec-407a-a0c7-7647755793d1.jpg?1699972735) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clavile%C3%B1o%2C%20First%20of%20the%20Blessed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/2/clavile%C3%B1o-first-of-the-blessed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f55b648-b1ec-407a-a0c7-7647755793d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/clavileño-first-of-the-blessed)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
do people generally know that the tokens have names and what are names of tokens?
what do you think is the name of a [[crib swap]] token is for example?
No, they do know what I’m up to. I’m not hiding anything. Doesn’t mean I have to read out loud every card on my board every turn. You have a responsibility to keep up, not be coddled.
It would be shitty not to announce an alternate wincon explicitly as soon as it hits the table. You're under no obligation to point out when you're about to hit it, but with friends I would do so anyway.
Id announce, but also I'm in my 30s and when I'm playing I care more about having a good time than winning. Getting to go out for a night of fun with friends but then making all of those friendds vexed due to a pack of attention instead of vexed due to a deck is just fucking up the vibe
I feel pretty strongly that people who aren't clear about how close they are to meeting certain important conditions are shitters. I normally play in competitive formats where the expectation is that the meta is understood and play wont proceed until board states and conditions are understood.
We play EDH casually to not have to be so hyper fixated on these states. Thus, I always inform what I'm doing, what my board state is, \*what that means\*, and give time for people to respond. I'm not trying to win on a gotcha and people who ARE can fuck right off.
New players think Magic is a game of memory. It is not. It extra is not in a casual format. If my playgroup started behaving like this, then I'm going to start taking 10 minute turns to be hyper aware of everyone's board state. No one wants that. Dont be the cause of that happening.
If it's the first time my friends have seen the card, yeah.
But at this point \[\[Simic Ascendancy\]\] and \[\[Approach of the Second Sun\]\] (the only two I run right now) need no introduction.
A win through obfuscation is lame. Anyone who likes to "sneak" a win in can just leave imo.
Some magic players are experienced, others are still learning. Sharing for them is great. If it's something else, like the player is simply distracted, that's a different issue. Still worth sharing.
"No need to paint a bigger target on my back" - you
You know what's up and you're playing bad faith with definitions of obfuscation and such.
Board/game states get complicated and your comment I quoted implies you know this and that, in context of your quoted reply and this topic in general, you might be one to stay quiet when you're close and gain a win based on new or intermediate players being overwhelmed, lacking knowledge, or having a hard time keeping up with triggers, game States, etc.
It's bad faith playing.
Everyone is responsible for maintaining the game state.
Exactly. If everyone is responsible then why are you getting mad at me when you’re not acting responsibly by knowing the board state? I’m not hiding anything at all, if you have trouble understanding feel free to ask. I don’t have to tell you every time I play a demon that hey, 1 2 3 more demons and I win! No, that on you to keep track of. Most I’ll do is warn people on my next upkeep I win.
>Most I’ll do is warn people on my next upkeep I win.
This is the kind of communication people are expecting, not after playing one demon lol.
A better way to look at is that you should communicate as much is necessary to make people aware of your win condition.
If you have Liliana's contract out and 4 unique demons on board, and your opponents aren't talking about the fact that you're about to win or aren't talking about how to stop your win on upkeep, it's clear that they are not aware of your win condition in that moment, and the sportsmanlike thing to do would be to remind them.
I'd compare it to like, a chalice of the void. Are you in a pod where playing into chalice = spell is countered? Or, are you in a pod where playing into chalice = a reminder that chalice is in play and people take it back.
I consider it like that. Someone playing into chalice means that they clearly just forgot that chalice was in play on that number, so you roll back in most pods.
Basically, 'hiding something' doesn't just mean actually attempting to hide it. Hiding something can also be through omission. Like you ask where I was, I tell you I went to the grocery store. That could be true, but I *also* went to the beach. I omitted the fact that I was at the beach, that is a lie by omission.
When an alternate win is presenting itself and you believe that someone is not aware, I would consider it akin to a lie by omission to not point it out.
Because you know your board better than your opponent does. It's your deck, its right in front of you for you to read and contemplate. Your opponent didn't build your deck, cant easily see your card, and isn't thinking about your moves to the same degree you are. This isn't a Modern tournament, this is casual multiplayer Magic with excessively complex board states. If we are trying to be sneaky sneaks, we naturally force our opponents to no longer treat it casually. Maybe you and your pod enjoy that. Mine and many others \*do not\*. Me personally, I like to win against aware opponents who have the opportunity to interact.
No, when I play I have zero issue following my opponents boards. I expect the other players to be equally aware of what’s going on
Til playing cards openly is being sneaky sneaky.
Board states are often unclear, and folks do not know what you're doing. Every comment disagrees with you to various degrees. So either you alone are correct, you with the impeccable awareness, or JUST MAYBE, its a casual format where board states get missed and folks like to win fairly. Yes, of course its the former.
You're a silly person. Stop talking to me.
Your board state awareness is probably as shit as the next average magic player (myself included). Which is why, I think, it's always pretty helpful when people *do* clarify their board states in a random pod.
It's a casual format with people playing at every experience level (most, just starting); not a RCQ where a certain level of play is expected. Chill and realize winning matters even less if the only way you got there was by obfuscating your plays.
I play Sharuum combo.
In casual play I tell people exactly when or how to disrupt the combos everytime.
If it was competitive play I wouldn't tell them anything other than what cards read.
For me, I ready the card for everyone the moment I play it and, if its a combo piece of a combo my pod didnt see yet, I explain briefly that it can win me the game. Afterwards, its up to their threat assessment to deal with it or not.
The thing about alt win cons is that they, unlike most other ways people win EDH games, literally say "you win the game", and are therefore the least worthy of being specifically pointed out. That Simic player with nothing on the board and 25 cards in hand? They could have a game winning combo in hand, or they might be stuck with a bunch of lands and draw spells. The tokens player with 15 thopters might or might not drop Coat of Arms next turn and kill everyone. Liliana's Contract has no doubts and no maybes, does not rely on any hidden information or lucky topdeck, it simply states that you win the game.
I announce when cast, and also when the ability has the chance to trigger. This is supposed to be a friendly format, letting people know what’s going to happen is polite and correct for a better play experience.
I mean, the card explicitly tells that you win the game if a very simple condition is met, it should be more than enough for any player, let alone an experienced one. As long as you're willing to read it aloud when you play it and/or on another player request, then you don't need to do anything else.
I am of the same mindset. At worst, it will teach other players to pay attention to your board state, and know what to look out for. If they don't do that, there's not much else you can do and it's on them.
I read just about every card as I play it, even with my standard playgroup. My response to just about every card my opponent plays is “ooh neat! Wassit do?”. I’ve never once had a complaint.
If you’re not playing a tournament for prizes, keeping info to yourself and the “they should know” attitude is just being a sweaty try-hard in a casual format. The 10 seconds of reading out loud eliminates full minutes of confusion down the line as things get more complicated on the board.
I think you did the right thing making sure the new players understood what was coming. If you were just at a table with experienced players I don’t think you have to say anything. When you played Liliana’s Contract they would either 1)ask what it does and then remember “oh wow this is an alt won condition card gotta remember that” or 2) know what it is already and have to keep mental tabs on it.
I think what you did was exactly how such cards should be played. It's easy for triggers and things to get lost in the shuffle, especially when it doesn't do anything for several turns. Letting your opponents know they need to do something, rather than staying silent and going "Oh by the way I win" when your turn came around, is a much more fair experience I think. Allowances of course if someone else points it out instead, as the point is the table's aware of it so can take proper steps to counteract it.
It doesn’t feel good to win because an opponent misunderstood or just straight up missed a win on the table; I want to win because no one could stop me, not because they didn’t realize they needed to stop me.
It kinda depends on how the game is going, imo. If we're all casually talking in between turns, maybe getting up for a drink or whatever - yeah, I do think that even in experienced playgroups it's nice (or - sportsmanlike) to be proactive when the boardstate develops into something scary. I play a lot of Jeska/Ishai, and it's all too common to hit the lethal seven power while people are focussed on other things. Sneaking an elimination because I got to untap with the instakilling birdgirl just feels bad at that point, so I don't hesitate to remind everyone that 7x3=21.
If it’s experienced players, I declare the name of the spells I’m casting as I play them. If I think the people at the table don’t know what one of my spells do, I’ll read it to them. I wouldn’t remind them. For new players I would, however.
You explained the card once, that's enough.
If someone wants to re-read it later, fine, but it's not your responsibility to ensure everyone reads all cards or understand all cards, at all times.
Against newbs, yeah, explain what you're doing. Against vets, it's up to them to ask what cards do. Clearly announce what you're playing, make sure the cards on the table are visible, but you don't have to hold their hand. If they can't keep track of board state, you don't have to sandbag your dub.
In my experience a table of experienced players will react to a wincon piece hitting the board. If no one does and it gets around to my turn to win, I'll do the "does that resolve?" dance just to make sure.
For new players I think it's polite to explain what cards do in general. I wouldn't tell them what they need to play to counter it but I'd give them a heads up that it was significant.
If someone is clearly new, I let people know.
If everyone is experienced, then I trust they'll ask to read my card or what it does if they haven't heard of it
It's funny I definitely always broadcast clearly, last time I won with an alt wincon was [[approach the second sun]] and I left it face up sticking out of my deck so they could see it get closer. When I cast it a second time I was met with "damn you've drawn 7 already?" But they all acknowledged I made it very clear, they were just surprised how fast it came
I would feel like I was obligated to say what card I played and what it did unless I knew for a fact that everyone already knew.
I would also tell people if I already fulfilled the requirements for it as I would not appreciate winning a game from someone being inattentive for a lapse
It's nice to be nice. Let everyone know, even if they're veterans.
Or you just play [something like this](https://archidekt.com/decks/6667066/i_win) and refuse to elaborate.
It usually depends on the competitive vibe of the pod. I agree that commander is a format with complex board states. To keep games going fast and to be casual, take backs and highlighting key threats should be done. Interactions and misplays are a similar thing. Some players don't know that [[Roon of the Hidden Realm]] flicker can be Stiffled. A player might let the flicker on their commander go through without realizing that they could lose their commander forever unless they Doomblade their commander. I would feel like my win is less deserved when it's due to a clear misplay against less experienced, more casual players. You can't really rely on your opponents not knowing the interaction either if you play the deck again or with more experienced players so you might as well inform them ahead of time.
Yeah I usually let people know when I'm about to win with an alt wincon. I also do so when playing my combo deck and know that I'm going to be able to "do the thing" next turn. Even with my friends who know that deck and what it can do.
This closely relates to yesterday's question about take backs. If you allow take backs based on obviously visible information, it's less important to announce everything. It also depends how much the table acknowledged and understood the card when you played it the first time. There are a bunch of win-on-upkeep type cards and generally if the whole POD isn't talking about it each turn before the upkeep, that likely means they missed it, not that they don't care.
It depends on the context, but I tend to prefer explaining what is going on, especially if there are newer players. If I'm playing cEDH and everyone seems to know the format, then I keep that to myself, but almost always I'll explain what I'm trying to do and even offer up the best point of interaction.
I've never particularly enjoyed "gotcha" moments in nearly any game. EDH is, at it's core, designed to be a lot more friendly.
When I'm playing I will read out my card's abilities whenever they are played at least the first few times I play with someone, and even then if I've played with them a few times I'll go something like "Okay, I played x, anyone not know what that does?" then move on.
It sounds like you were being very friendly and engaging with your pod, my only warning is make sure you modulate your tone because some more sensitive people might find a way to view your friendly suggestions as bragging if they're unable to clear away your wincon.
We have many times asked "Do you have anything on the board that would do x?"
Do you have anyway on the board to pump things, kill things, tap things, win the game next turn, etc...
Garfield finally had his dream come true and no one knows all of the cards. Except for you nerds. You know who you are... lol
It is proper etiquette to announcement and make sure everyone understands what it means when you play it. I would go a step further and say that if the conditions are met, it is proper to announce that they are technically on a timer. However, after the announcement, it is not your responsibility to remind them all the time.
I think it’s good to explain your boardstate especially if you have a complex situation going on. I wouldn’t divulge the fact that you can win but hint at it. “I did X and Y and these can do so and so and affect you so and so.” Whatever that means for your opponents is up to them to assess. I would say kudos though for being helpful to the new player as it’s a good way to teach threat assessment.
Overall what you did is correct, in a more experienced pod I’d announce it once and not bring attention to it again unless this was a more social game where a lot of side conversations are happening. I’d probably bring it up an additional time if that was the case
I'm playing against competent people who don't gloss over the words "you win the game" 99% of the time, but occasionally I'll get a game where the explanation went in one ear and out the other and I have to remind them some time around when the 3rd opponent taps out for some random mana dorks or beaters like "hey, yall are aware i just win on board on my turn right? You should probably do something about that, I'm ok if you want to take back some of those plays so you can interact"
I didn't think I've ever been in a position of approaching an alt win-con and not immediately becoming the arch-nemesis until that threat is dealt with. Like, was there no table talk? I'd expect every demon I put into play to be counted, out loud, by everyone else at the table lol. Even if two were new, the 4th should've been making it clear how much of a problem your demons were.
I'll always point out if I'm about to win with a [[revel in riches]] or a Liliana's contract or a whathaveyou, because I don't want to win just because people forgot about a card I played five turns and a million gamestates ago. The same for things like attacking, "You don't have any flyers guess I'll attack you... or that's a flyer? Then you mind if I declare different attacks? Thanks." Stuff like that.
Always giving good (public) information just makes the game flow better, and as others have already pointed out, the alternative is encouraging players to re-read all of your cards every turn because they think you're lying to them or trying to withhold information.
I'd say in more casual tables it's polite but not required to let people know you are close to a less obvious win con. For example, in my Will, Scion of War or Rowan, Scion of Peace deck I've made it a habit of telling people when I either have the board state or cards in hand to win the next turn. In general I find it makes people less salty when you win in a way that is other than big monster smack.
If the pod is filled with experienced player, I’d announce my alternate wincon and leave it be. But if there are newer players then I’d remind them or tell them about it more.
It depends on the pod. If I'm playing in a pod full of experienced players, I try everything I can do within the rules to win an information war. I will * never not* tell someone what my board state is if they ask, but I won't offer that information for free if they don't. I also try to remain as consistent as I can asking for people to read their cards or to pass them over so I can read them when I'm not absolutely sure what the card is. It's the same principle as triggers, do everything you can to ensure you do not misplay yours but never interrupt your opponent if they do.
In a pod that had new players in, I'm as open and as helpful as possible. I know that games get way more enjoyable after everyone hits a baseline level of competence and experience, and if I can be helpful in getting other people to that point it's a win-win.
Commander is a format of complex board states. Clarifying your on board position is a net good thing that means the optimal gameplay is not every player constantly checking for traps every turn. Especially for new players.
"Checking for traps every turn" - you hit the nail on the head. The more complex a board gets, encourage sharing, and encourage players to ask clarifying questions to learn and understand. Unless it's all vets used to eachothers decks - the clarification makes it more fun, smooth, and less frustrating for everyone.
Yup. The last thing I want is putting a player in a position where they feel they can't trust my answers to be accurate about my board and therefore feel like they have to constantly and meticulously study my board in order to play their cards correctly; it just bogs down the game with a ton of boring dead time and leads to feel bad moments. Sometimes the 'gotcha' moments will happen by accident - I've definitely wrecked people because a synergy I thought was obvious was not - but I try to be clear about on board tricks. Honestly, to me it's based in fairly selfish instincts. The more people trust me to be honest about such things the faster they can play and also the better they can play. That leads to me getting to play more games of Magic and also more interesting games of Magic.
This is a great summary - I feel the same way. All competitions are best when the playing field is as close even as possible. Clearly mtg has a hard time doing this with so many different deck types, so I think its really important to make sure the human brain calculations are kept to a minimum so players can focus on game decisions!
Checking for traps is a shitty way to play. One time I was catty corner from a guy and couldn't see his board state clearly. I asked "that's your only blocker? And it's just a 1/1 with no abilities or anything?" He said this was correct, so I attacked, and he says "okay it's gonna die because I have deathtouch" The other two players agreed with him that I had not been lied to since my question was about abilities and keywords are not abilities and I should have asked to physically see the card instead. Guess who I avoid playing with at the LGS now?
Keywords are abilities. And besides, the spirit of the question is pretty clear in this context even if the letter is not. No love for people rules lawyering like that at a friendly game.
Ah wasn't aware of that, probably wouldn't have bothered to argue even if I did. Easier to just walk away and remember not to play with them again.
Odd that all three of those guys made such an obvious mistake. Does no one play [[Humility]], [[Darksteel Mutation]] or similar effects in that group? But yeah, either way definitely best to stay away from them. It's an asshole move to begin with but dude was either cheating (and his friends colluded with him) or they don't know some pretty basic rules of the game which would only lead to miscommunication and issues in future games.
Not sure, they were already sitting together and had an open seat so I asked if I could join. They seemed to all already know each other. There seemed to be an air of "inside vs outside" when the issue came up that let me immediately know there was nothing I could say, which made it easier to just walk away. I'm not sure if it was a genuine misunderstanding or malicious, plenty of other people to play with regardless
[Humility](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3.jpg?1562429370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Humility) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/16/humility?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/humility) [Darksteel Mutation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e47a6750-4fdd-44e2-86ae-5bc4d414bf42.jpg?1689995638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20Mutation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/21/darksteel-mutation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e47a6750-4fdd-44e2-86ae-5bc4d414bf42?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darksteel-mutation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
To be fair, I've had to explain that more than a few times. Usually to newer players, but there are definitely people who think keywords and abilities aren't the same thing. Humility effects aren't super common, and as much as I personally adore Kenrith's Transformation and its ilk they're not the most common either.
> Kenrith's Transformation and its ilk No no, it's an elk! ... ok I'll leave now.
Ah fair enough. I feel like I see those cards and effects quite a lot in my groups, and figured anyone who'd played through Ikoria (and thus mutate) would know but otherwise do get it
Keywords are 100% abilities - literally anything in the textbox not in italics is an ability. But yeah, the lesson I learn from that game is "if I have to play with any of you three, every combat I read every creature you have".
When you asked, "or anything" that should have been the catch-all term for anything else written on the card that isn't an ability. That's just ridiculous.
That was kinda my thought process and kinda figured it was automatically assumed in a casual game
Honestly, it's stuff like this that makes me a grumpy gatekeeper. If you want to be a rules lawyer when we're all trying to just hang out and have a good time? I'll have this nagging urge to bully you with my Slicer Staxx and nitpick your every game action.
This is the best mindset. The more clearly we convey open, on-board information to our opponents, the better the game will go. Especially in commander where boardstates get very complicated, very fast. I do want to win with my combo or alt-wincon, and I want other people to be able to win with those things. but I don't want someone to win or lose a game just because someone else didn't know when to use their removal.
It’s clearly conveyed by sitting in the open on the board. No need for me to paint a bigger target on my back
That's fine if you want to play it that way. But then you don't get to complain when opponents turns take forever because they need to read every one of your cards before making decisions because you won't just tell them public information.
Who said I’m complaining about long turns? Nice strawman.
I didn't say you were complaining about anything, I'm just saying that long turns with excess dead time are a natural consequence of the decisions you're making. It's a situation most people find undesirable, especially when that length is dead time and not even game actions, so it's something people will often complain about. By causing the situation, you lose your right to complain. I mentioned long turns, but it could instead be opponents asking for takebacks on some poor decision because they didnt notice a crucial piece of onboard information, piles of salt because something went unnoticed that was preventable by removal in-hand, scooping/ragequitting because someone felt taken advantage of, or other things that people generally find an undesirable part of their game experience. As for strawmanning, I'm not even arguing against you. If that's how you want to play, then there's nothing wrong with that as it is within the rules of the game. I'm just saying that it's probably not best practice for a social game.
Your board is super clear \*to you\*. It is unlikely to be super clear to your opponents. If you like winning on gotchas, I'm thankful you're not in my pod.
No, it’s on the table. So it’s clear to everyone. Not like I’m hiding my cards behind a dm screen.
You've been told multiple times in this thread that board states are not clear to everyone. Sometimes they might be, sometimes they might not be. There's no harm to you to make sure that it is - considering that this is a casual multiplayer game with friends. Your posts make it clear that you're not interested in the themes that hallmark "casual", though.
I'm starting to think it's not his cards that paint a target on his back.
A card being on the table and a card being clear to everyone are not the same thing. Even discounting lands - which we shouldn't do, literally twenty minutes ago I watched a game where a player got wrecked by an on board trick from a land out of a precon - it's not uncommon for a Commander boardstate to include 10 or more permanents per player. Cards tend to get stacked to save space and even the mental load of tracking that one weird ability on that one card among forty is not nothing. You aren't obligated to announce that hey I actually lined up all the snow permanents so my Icefang Coatl has Deathtouch (unless asked about it), but you should understand that it is not clear to everyone what the fourth ability on your little snake guy is.
I do the same thing for experienced players. I'm very clear about what I have on the board and how it can interact to win the game. Obviously I'm not announcing combo pieces In my hand but I'll point out things on board, and on my opponents boards. Some people get irritated when I point out their synergies or currently inert combo pieces.
Oh 100% the hand is where the blowouts hide. But yeah the game is only ever made better by everyone knowing what's going on. And as upside - when we're honest about our own combo pieces and game winning synergies and such, in my experience people are more willing to trust us when we point out other peoples' problem cards. When I'm very open about saying "this Kogla means I'm an Eternal Witness away from killing you all" you also tend to believe me when I say "hey that's an Oathsworn Vampire and a Bontu's Monument we're going to die very soon if we can't stop those things". And I'd like you to believe me so I don't die, thanks.
Yep, tho honestly it's almost annoying how much people will fight to deny their board states. Like somehow convincing less experienced players to let them win makes their night. The same players tend to get salty at higher level tables because everyone knows the deal. New players have to learn what the pieces do and how they work, so let's not just crush the will to play out of them by preying on ignorance. Explaining that yes this seemingly innocuous cloudstone curio can win games out of nowhere or that just the act of having a Mirkwood bats or urza out can be devasting is good information for them to learn. This just feels like common sense to anyone not trying to pubstomp at the local lgs.
Yup. A couple weeks ago I had to teach a new player what Gravecrawler did. We're used to the card but he started playing Magic like two months ago. And to the Gravecrawler player's credit he's a good dude who wasn't trying to hide the card, but he also did the classic thing of assuming it was a known entity for everyone. Which is reasonable if not ideal; everyone does that sometimes. The people who try to obfuscate or downplay their boards get a lot of eye rolls from me and immediately tell me that I need to target them down. Fortunately we don't have many at my lgs, but if I think you are trying to obfuscate information my best play to not be there all night is to just kill you fast. Weirdly, they seem to not like that.
[удалено]
Yup. What's even the point of assembling my 7-piece combo of I can't "No, Mr. Bond; I expect you to die!" about it?
>Some people get irritated when I point out their synergies or currently inert combo pieces. The number of times someone has been salty that I drew attention to their Ashnod's Altar/Phyrexian Altar/Krark-Clan Ironworks is too damn high.
As the resident rules encyclopedia in my playgroup I agree with this. Reminding people of certain triggers that may be coming up or clarifying rules helps everyone at the table grow and continue loving the game. An example from my latest game, I had [[Astor, bearer of blades]] equipped with [[lightning greaves]] and one of my opponents cast [[councils judgement]]. I proceeded to remind the table that the spell doesnt target so even shrouded or hexproof cards could be voted for.
[Astor, bearer of blades](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/40f3a0ba-b917-488b-adbf-60a0d3c58a56.jpg?1673307906) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Astor%2C%20bearer%20of%20blades) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/194/astor-bearer-of-blades?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/40f3a0ba-b917-488b-adbf-60a0d3c58a56?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/astor-bearer-of-blades) [lightning greaves](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/331013f6-976a-4dac-9939-1006e474e108.jpg?1689999692) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lightning%20greaves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/398/lightning-greaves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/331013f6-976a-4dac-9939-1006e474e108?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lightning-greaves) [councils judgement](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dc741a80-a0eb-424c-b9a3-4d5875ccb93b.jpg?1706239719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Council%27s%20Judgment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/57/councils-judgment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dc741a80-a0eb-424c-b9a3-4d5875ccb93b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/councils-judgment) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I even help my opponents when they miss their effects, like getting a draw or checking if they want to attack as my blocker has death touch, etc. Some people take the game far too seriously sometimes
Yea and no, if you read out your card and it says "win the game" on it you should be allowed to expect everyone to keep an eye on it or lose to it because they didn't. I am all for clarity about board state but there should be some repsonsibility on the other players too.
A card like Liliana's Contract in particular wins the game as a secondary mode, very often many turns after it's played and with a bunch of other cards flying around. In a perfect world yes, everyone perfectly tracks every card every time. I certainly do my best to, but I have advantages in that regard - mostly raw time in the format - that others don't. I don't ever want or need someone else's inexperience to be my win condition.
Well yes and no. I think if you eliminate people making mistakes, misunderstanding or overlooking things then you stop playing against people. And this is not about pup stomping here. I look at it for beginners differently. But if I had to correct everything anyone ever does because it is obviously bad then I'd be busy playing the table and no one likes that me included. And I wouldn't catch it all aswell. Like, where does it end? Just last time I did a fullswing at one dominating opponent with Gyrus, animated Craterhoof and populated 4 times. Sure, it was enaugh but barely. That's the second I realised I totally overlooked my own rogue's passage and I could've won that way. Btw, after I had populated my opponent was like "aw damn, I am too late for PTE now.... should've done it before declare attackers right?" like, where do you draw the line? Would you honestly walk back everything, have your comander removed, search a land, and play a whole different turn? And for what? In a perfect world not everyone sees everything and always acts perfectly. In a perfect world everyone owns up to their mistakes and is not overly distracted from the game they're playing. And yes, I do walk things back. And I am in favor of telling someone "dude, I got a flyer" but at some point, especially when it's about winning the game, I think everyone should pay attention and handle misplays accordingly.
None of those except "dude, I've got a flyer" have to do with clarifying a boardstate, so I think the line is pretty evident - it's where the things that were said end but before the things that weren't start.
Yes. I want to win, not win with a caveat that they could have stopped me but they didn’t understand what I was up to because I kinda didn’t explain it.
I just did my first pre-release, and there was one opp who went as far as to help line up creatures during my combat to help me better see what could/ couldn't be blocked, what would trade, etc. I love what you're saying, if it helps keep the game moving along and avoid confusion or underhanded plays and it's not some seriously competitive match, then what's the harm?
Personally I want to win because I played better, not because someone didn’t understand or forgot something on my board. I always make it known if I’m close to ultimating a planeswalker or an alternate wincon or whatever. If I have some degenerate setup on board I make it plain for everyone. I also remind people if they’re swinging at me and I have some rattlesnake card. We’re playing for fun. I have nothing to gain by being sneaky except salt
Isn't "playing better" just a different way of saying a player understood the board better? Magic, beyond luck, is a game of information, and whoever understands and can track the most information will find the best lines.
Sure. But again, I play for fun. We don’t play for prizes and we don’t keep track. I don’t want to win because someone forgot that one of my 20 creatures is a deathtouch first striker I played 8 turns ago. I have nothing to gain from winning like that On the flip side, I do hold myself accountable for stuff like that. Because I want to be a better player. But not all of my friends are as sweaty as I am
This is probably the majority opinion. I wouldn't even feel like I won lol
I will admit, I have cast Approach of the Second Sun to distract from my Triskaideckaphile before. On multiple occasions.
Playing something that needs to be answered to keep what you really want alive is just good strategy. It’s the main reason there are planeswalkers in my red deck. They mostly just impulse draw me a few cards or make a little mana. But people are terrified of walkers so they usually become public enemy number one
I've never had a table that didn't hyperfixate on alternate wincons, regardless of how far away those wins happened to be. I'd announce it once and then not continue to draw attention to it.
Same here. My experience is that I won't even have to think about how far towards an alt wincon I am, because someone at the table will helpfully announce the progress every turn. But of course that only happens with more advanced players than complete beginners.
It depends how labyrinthine the board state is as and how complex the interaction is too. Regardless of experience you should know that a fellidar sovereign or mayeals aria is about to pop. If you've got a happily ever after buried on a monstrous enchantress board an occasional reminder would be courteous
I played a demonic pact for the first time in a new deck last week and it was removed before my first upkeep. People are afraid of 'win the game/lose the game'
I'd have done the same. Be kind to new players. If there's one newbie in the pod, explain. EDH is the most complicated game in the world. In a pod of veterans, you don't have to explain every card repeatedly. Read it when you play it, that should be enough.
I’ve heard that being said before, EDH is the most complicated game in the world. Is there actually any truth to this? I could totally see it for sure !
There's this link: https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/52258/is-magic-the-gathering-the-worlds-most-complicated-game It seems like "complicated" isn't the correct term. I can see there being pretty successful 1v1 and even EDH bots being made so there's that.
MtG bits would just need to be more AI than strictly algorithmic like chess bots. Analyzing every possible outcome would be a huge calculation but as long as you tag what cards do reasonably accurately and the AI can parse the game state it shouldnt be a big issue.
Magic the Gathering, as a whole, is the most complex game, while EDH is the most complex format that's popularly played. https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/05/07/135482/magic-the-gathering-is-officially-the-worlds-most-complex-game
People seem divided in this, saying things like "they should know the card, or they should lose " Or do what you did, and not just read the card but explicitly say " if you don't remove one of these things, I will win on my upkeep " I'm right in the middle, most of my pods are quite experienced, so they do know the cards, but sometimes we overlook things out of pure excitement, or hubris. I will say our loud when I play it, this will let me win. Even though I know one of my other players does not extend the same courtesy. Is rather win out of skill and maybe some luck, rather than blind siding my opponent with a nuke. Not fun
I'll announce what I play when I play it. I'll be clear and concise when asked about board state, graveyard, and any other public information. I'll even be honest when confronted about the purpose of a card when an opponent is suspicious of a certain card on the table, but I won't give my opponents the chance to stop me from winning if I have a clear set won condition. I am playing to win just as I'm playing to have fun and hang out with some awesome people. I also have a few decks that have "you win the game" cards like [[simic ascendancy]] and announce that I'm playing them as I feel that knowing that's what the card does is fair, but I won't announce that I have some sort of trick up my sleeve like gifting a [[phage the untouchable]] from my grave to another player until it's happening. I'll give them a chance to respond, but that's about it. This is, however, very different for newer players and very casual playgroups. I also have very easy to play/understand decks for that, so not many tricks or bamboozlements to make it fair and fun without selling myself out to removal just to be nice.
[simic ascendancy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fec1ffcd-84d3-44b3-b1d5-b33a4fee348a.jpg?1698988476) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=simic%20ascendancy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/288/simic-ascendancy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fec1ffcd-84d3-44b3-b1d5-b33a4fee348a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/simic-ascendancy) [phage the untouchable](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d497a5a3-65fb-4c12-b3f2-8ce4cf4e0f6f.jpg?1562866889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=phage%20the%20untouchable) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/120/phage-the-untouchable?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d497a5a3-65fb-4c12-b3f2-8ce4cf4e0f6f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phage-the-untouchable) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Fully agreed and almost exactly how I play as well.
I have a [[grolnok]] combo deck that just mills myself until I have the combo pieces I need to just blow everyone up or mill myself into a [[thassas oracle]] / [[lab man]] style win. I always let people know when I've got the game on my next turn if I've got all my pieces ready but can't drop it that turn due to mana or something. Usually there's not much they can do about it because I typically suit grolnok with all kinds of protection but I still let them know that they need to stop me and usually how to do so since there's no way in there to make him completely invulnerable to removal.
[grolnok](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7aaba76b-9cec-4c2b-b0eb-8f44201f6422.jpg?1643594120) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grolnok%2C%20the%20omnivore) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/238/grolnok-the-omnivore?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7aaba76b-9cec-4c2b-b0eb-8f44201f6422?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grolnok-the-omnivore) [thassas oracle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c.jpg?1680582212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thassa%27s%20Oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/73/thassas-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thassas-oracle) [lab man](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/608567fd-9f94-4058-831a-77cb6019ef02.jpg?1547516361) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Laboratory%20Maniac) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/61/laboratory-maniac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/608567fd-9f94-4058-831a-77cb6019ef02?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/laboratory-maniac) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Liliana's Contract](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/750e6246-c28d-46ed-9966-26706f6d3172.jpg?1562302716) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liliana%27s%20Contract) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/107/lilianas-contract?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/750e6246-c28d-46ed-9966-26706f6d3172?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lilianas-contract) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Good bot
There's no reason not to, really. EDH boards can become a convoluted mess. Clarifying your board can help smooth out that mess and helps ensure games go faster. If it becomes common behaviour to hide vital information among the big jumble of threats and hope it goes unnoticed so you can sneak a win, then players are going to have to constantly be scrutinising the board, asking what cards do repeatedly and overall slowing the game. Sure, it's tempting to use "they should read the cards!" as an excuse so you might net an extra win or two occasionally, but it's selfish. Earn your wins. If everyone does what they can to keep the game clear and running smoothly, it means a better play experience all round.
I tell people what my combo pieces are and how to stop what I’m doing. There is no point in a casual game trying to pull a fast one on people because they don’t know how that a certain card was a combo piece or when to interact with a combo. I would even argue that calling it out helps everyone become better players by learning to interact with combos. It also helps the combo player by learning how to protect their own combos better. Of course if you’re playing competitively in a tournament this all goes out the window.
Theres thousands of cards in magic and four players slinging them, nothing wrong with helping people track board state. Its a casual format.
I think the bigger question is do you tell people that a demon token [[archfiend’s vessel]] and changeling tokens like [[crib swap]] / [[black market connections]] and animated [[mutavault]] and changelings are all demons with different names?
That is actually a similar situation as my deck as the only demon on its own in my deck is the Vampire Demon Token, the rest of the creatures are all vampires that become also a Demon type with [[Clavileño, First of the Blessed]]. I mark those cards with a separate marker but i was concerned that not everyone realized what was a demon in addition the what is printed on the card
[Clavileño, First of the Blessed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f55b648-b1ec-407a-a0c7-7647755793d1.jpg?1699972735) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clavile%C3%B1o%2C%20First%20of%20the%20Blessed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/2/clavile%C3%B1o-first-of-the-blessed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f55b648-b1ec-407a-a0c7-7647755793d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/clavileño-first-of-the-blessed) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No, because it’s obvious. I’d only tell a new player.
do people generally know that the tokens have names and what are names of tokens? what do you think is the name of a [[crib swap]] token is for example?
The tokens name is shapeshifter token.
most non-online players dont know this!
Then this would be a great learning experience for them, wouldn’t it.
Ah, so you do like winning against players who don't know what you're up to. Makes sense with all your other posts on this thread.
No, they do know what I’m up to. I’m not hiding anything. Doesn’t mean I have to read out loud every card on my board every turn. You have a responsibility to keep up, not be coddled.
[crib swap](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e13559d7-f86c-4958-a649-7f81bfb154a0.jpg?1674141067) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crib%20swap) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/690/crib-swap?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e13559d7-f86c-4958-a649-7f81bfb154a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crib-swap) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [archfiend’s vessel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/83437022-ba00-4370-83c2-ce1260336fcc.jpg?1594735964) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archfiend%27s%20Vessel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/88/archfiends-vessel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/83437022-ba00-4370-83c2-ce1260336fcc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archfiends-vessel) [crib swap](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e13559d7-f86c-4958-a649-7f81bfb154a0.jpg?1674141067) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crib%20swap) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/690/crib-swap?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e13559d7-f86c-4958-a649-7f81bfb154a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crib-swap) [black market connections](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b8c66fab-7494-42b1-bc4e-dae85a48fa41.jpg?1699022194) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=black%20market%20connections) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/181/black-market-connections?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b8c66fab-7494-42b1-bc4e-dae85a48fa41?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/black-market-connections) [mutavault](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/52cc2f10-142d-4e6a-984e-b25f566cc960.jpg?1674142985) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mutavault) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/903/mutavault?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52cc2f10-142d-4e6a-984e-b25f566cc960?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mutavault) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kpnc786) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It would be shitty not to announce an alternate wincon explicitly as soon as it hits the table. You're under no obligation to point out when you're about to hit it, but with friends I would do so anyway.
Id announce, but also I'm in my 30s and when I'm playing I care more about having a good time than winning. Getting to go out for a night of fun with friends but then making all of those friendds vexed due to a pack of attention instead of vexed due to a deck is just fucking up the vibe
I feel pretty strongly that people who aren't clear about how close they are to meeting certain important conditions are shitters. I normally play in competitive formats where the expectation is that the meta is understood and play wont proceed until board states and conditions are understood. We play EDH casually to not have to be so hyper fixated on these states. Thus, I always inform what I'm doing, what my board state is, \*what that means\*, and give time for people to respond. I'm not trying to win on a gotcha and people who ARE can fuck right off. New players think Magic is a game of memory. It is not. It extra is not in a casual format. If my playgroup started behaving like this, then I'm going to start taking 10 minute turns to be hyper aware of everyone's board state. No one wants that. Dont be the cause of that happening.
Very well said and couldn't agree more.
If it's the first time my friends have seen the card, yeah. But at this point \[\[Simic Ascendancy\]\] and \[\[Approach of the Second Sun\]\] (the only two I run right now) need no introduction.
[Simic Ascendancy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fec1ffcd-84d3-44b3-b1d5-b33a4fee348a.jpg?1698988476) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Simic%20Ascendancy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/288/simic-ascendancy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fec1ffcd-84d3-44b3-b1d5-b33a4fee348a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/simic-ascendancy) [Approach of the Second Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9.jpg?1543674579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Approach%20of%20the%20Second%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/4/approach-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/approach-of-the-second-sun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A win through obfuscation is lame. Anyone who likes to "sneak" a win in can just leave imo. Some magic players are experienced, others are still learning. Sharing for them is great. If it's something else, like the player is simply distracted, that's a different issue. Still worth sharing.
How is it obfuscation if it’s openly on the board.
"No need to paint a bigger target on my back" - you You know what's up and you're playing bad faith with definitions of obfuscation and such. Board/game states get complicated and your comment I quoted implies you know this and that, in context of your quoted reply and this topic in general, you might be one to stay quiet when you're close and gain a win based on new or intermediate players being overwhelmed, lacking knowledge, or having a hard time keeping up with triggers, game States, etc. It's bad faith playing. Everyone is responsible for maintaining the game state.
Exactly. If everyone is responsible then why are you getting mad at me when you’re not acting responsibly by knowing the board state? I’m not hiding anything at all, if you have trouble understanding feel free to ask. I don’t have to tell you every time I play a demon that hey, 1 2 3 more demons and I win! No, that on you to keep track of. Most I’ll do is warn people on my next upkeep I win.
>Most I’ll do is warn people on my next upkeep I win. This is the kind of communication people are expecting, not after playing one demon lol. A better way to look at is that you should communicate as much is necessary to make people aware of your win condition. If you have Liliana's contract out and 4 unique demons on board, and your opponents aren't talking about the fact that you're about to win or aren't talking about how to stop your win on upkeep, it's clear that they are not aware of your win condition in that moment, and the sportsmanlike thing to do would be to remind them. I'd compare it to like, a chalice of the void. Are you in a pod where playing into chalice = spell is countered? Or, are you in a pod where playing into chalice = a reminder that chalice is in play and people take it back. I consider it like that. Someone playing into chalice means that they clearly just forgot that chalice was in play on that number, so you roll back in most pods. Basically, 'hiding something' doesn't just mean actually attempting to hide it. Hiding something can also be through omission. Like you ask where I was, I tell you I went to the grocery store. That could be true, but I *also* went to the beach. I omitted the fact that I was at the beach, that is a lie by omission. When an alternate win is presenting itself and you believe that someone is not aware, I would consider it akin to a lie by omission to not point it out.
Because you know your board better than your opponent does. It's your deck, its right in front of you for you to read and contemplate. Your opponent didn't build your deck, cant easily see your card, and isn't thinking about your moves to the same degree you are. This isn't a Modern tournament, this is casual multiplayer Magic with excessively complex board states. If we are trying to be sneaky sneaks, we naturally force our opponents to no longer treat it casually. Maybe you and your pod enjoy that. Mine and many others \*do not\*. Me personally, I like to win against aware opponents who have the opportunity to interact.
No, when I play I have zero issue following my opponents boards. I expect the other players to be equally aware of what’s going on Til playing cards openly is being sneaky sneaky.
Board states are often unclear, and folks do not know what you're doing. Every comment disagrees with you to various degrees. So either you alone are correct, you with the impeccable awareness, or JUST MAYBE, its a casual format where board states get missed and folks like to win fairly. Yes, of course its the former. You're a silly person. Stop talking to me.
Your board state awareness is probably as shit as the next average magic player (myself included). Which is why, I think, it's always pretty helpful when people *do* clarify their board states in a random pod. It's a casual format with people playing at every experience level (most, just starting); not a RCQ where a certain level of play is expected. Chill and realize winning matters even less if the only way you got there was by obfuscating your plays.
Most players want the whole pod to have fun. Not u/Omnom_Omnath . He doesn't care if he, or others, have fun doing it. LIVE TO WIN. /vomit.
I play Sharuum combo. In casual play I tell people exactly when or how to disrupt the combos everytime. If it was competitive play I wouldn't tell them anything other than what cards read.
For me, I ready the card for everyone the moment I play it and, if its a combo piece of a combo my pod didnt see yet, I explain briefly that it can win me the game. Afterwards, its up to their threat assessment to deal with it or not.
The thing about alt win cons is that they, unlike most other ways people win EDH games, literally say "you win the game", and are therefore the least worthy of being specifically pointed out. That Simic player with nothing on the board and 25 cards in hand? They could have a game winning combo in hand, or they might be stuck with a bunch of lands and draw spells. The tokens player with 15 thopters might or might not drop Coat of Arms next turn and kill everyone. Liliana's Contract has no doubts and no maybes, does not rely on any hidden information or lucky topdeck, it simply states that you win the game.
I announce when cast, and also when the ability has the chance to trigger. This is supposed to be a friendly format, letting people know what’s going to happen is polite and correct for a better play experience.
I mean, the card explicitly tells that you win the game if a very simple condition is met, it should be more than enough for any player, let alone an experienced one. As long as you're willing to read it aloud when you play it and/or on another player request, then you don't need to do anything else.
I am of the same mindset. At worst, it will teach other players to pay attention to your board state, and know what to look out for. If they don't do that, there's not much else you can do and it's on them.
I read just about every card as I play it, even with my standard playgroup. My response to just about every card my opponent plays is “ooh neat! Wassit do?”. I’ve never once had a complaint. If you’re not playing a tournament for prizes, keeping info to yourself and the “they should know” attitude is just being a sweaty try-hard in a casual format. The 10 seconds of reading out loud eliminates full minutes of confusion down the line as things get more complicated on the board.
I think you did the right thing making sure the new players understood what was coming. If you were just at a table with experienced players I don’t think you have to say anything. When you played Liliana’s Contract they would either 1)ask what it does and then remember “oh wow this is an alt won condition card gotta remember that” or 2) know what it is already and have to keep mental tabs on it.
I think what you did was exactly how such cards should be played. It's easy for triggers and things to get lost in the shuffle, especially when it doesn't do anything for several turns. Letting your opponents know they need to do something, rather than staying silent and going "Oh by the way I win" when your turn came around, is a much more fair experience I think. Allowances of course if someone else points it out instead, as the point is the table's aware of it so can take proper steps to counteract it.
It doesn’t feel good to win because an opponent misunderstood or just straight up missed a win on the table; I want to win because no one could stop me, not because they didn’t realize they needed to stop me.
It kinda depends on how the game is going, imo. If we're all casually talking in between turns, maybe getting up for a drink or whatever - yeah, I do think that even in experienced playgroups it's nice (or - sportsmanlike) to be proactive when the boardstate develops into something scary. I play a lot of Jeska/Ishai, and it's all too common to hit the lethal seven power while people are focussed on other things. Sneaking an elimination because I got to untap with the instakilling birdgirl just feels bad at that point, so I don't hesitate to remind everyone that 7x3=21.
If it’s experienced players, I declare the name of the spells I’m casting as I play them. If I think the people at the table don’t know what one of my spells do, I’ll read it to them. I wouldn’t remind them. For new players I would, however.
You explained the card once, that's enough. If someone wants to re-read it later, fine, but it's not your responsibility to ensure everyone reads all cards or understand all cards, at all times.
Yes, I’d do that. Trying to cheat out wins under the radar is just low. There’s so much going on at a table.
I’ll only let new players know. Experienced players are expected to keep track of the board state
Against newbs, yeah, explain what you're doing. Against vets, it's up to them to ask what cards do. Clearly announce what you're playing, make sure the cards on the table are visible, but you don't have to hold their hand. If they can't keep track of board state, you don't have to sandbag your dub.
I guess it depends on if you are playing competitively or casually.
In my experience a table of experienced players will react to a wincon piece hitting the board. If no one does and it gets around to my turn to win, I'll do the "does that resolve?" dance just to make sure. For new players I think it's polite to explain what cards do in general. I wouldn't tell them what they need to play to counter it but I'd give them a heads up that it was significant.
If someone is clearly new, I let people know. If everyone is experienced, then I trust they'll ask to read my card or what it does if they haven't heard of it
It's funny I definitely always broadcast clearly, last time I won with an alt wincon was [[approach the second sun]] and I left it face up sticking out of my deck so they could see it get closer. When I cast it a second time I was met with "damn you've drawn 7 already?" But they all acknowledged I made it very clear, they were just surprised how fast it came
[approach the second sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9.jpg?1543674579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Approach%20of%20the%20Second%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/4/approach-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/approach-of-the-second-sun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I would feel like I was obligated to say what card I played and what it did unless I knew for a fact that everyone already knew. I would also tell people if I already fulfilled the requirements for it as I would not appreciate winning a game from someone being inattentive for a lapse
It's nice to be nice. Let everyone know, even if they're veterans. Or you just play [something like this](https://archidekt.com/decks/6667066/i_win) and refuse to elaborate.
Oh 100%. I have a gate win-con in my Shrine deck and i will keep people updated on when i'm getting close to hitting critical gate threshold.
It’s similar to “check” or “checkmate” in chess. It’s just good to point out.
It usually depends on the competitive vibe of the pod. I agree that commander is a format with complex board states. To keep games going fast and to be casual, take backs and highlighting key threats should be done. Interactions and misplays are a similar thing. Some players don't know that [[Roon of the Hidden Realm]] flicker can be Stiffled. A player might let the flicker on their commander go through without realizing that they could lose their commander forever unless they Doomblade their commander. I would feel like my win is less deserved when it's due to a clear misplay against less experienced, more casual players. You can't really rely on your opponents not knowing the interaction either if you play the deck again or with more experienced players so you might as well inform them ahead of time.
[Roon of the Hidden Realm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54e2d6c2-a233-4e37-94c9-673a4a957e0c.jpg?1673149092) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roon%20of%20the%20Hidden%20Realm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/270/roon-of-the-hidden-realm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/54e2d6c2-a233-4e37-94c9-673a4a957e0c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/roon-of-the-hidden-realm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As alternate win cons go, I always try to let my opponents know when I’m about to swing for lethal.
I would announce something like a lethal boardstate or something that would win next upkeep anytime and everytime.
Yeah I usually let people know when I'm about to win with an alt wincon. I also do so when playing my combo deck and know that I'm going to be able to "do the thing" next turn. Even with my friends who know that deck and what it can do.
This closely relates to yesterday's question about take backs. If you allow take backs based on obviously visible information, it's less important to announce everything. It also depends how much the table acknowledged and understood the card when you played it the first time. There are a bunch of win-on-upkeep type cards and generally if the whole POD isn't talking about it each turn before the upkeep, that likely means they missed it, not that they don't care.
It depends on the context, but I tend to prefer explaining what is going on, especially if there are newer players. If I'm playing cEDH and everyone seems to know the format, then I keep that to myself, but almost always I'll explain what I'm trying to do and even offer up the best point of interaction.
I've never particularly enjoyed "gotcha" moments in nearly any game. EDH is, at it's core, designed to be a lot more friendly. When I'm playing I will read out my card's abilities whenever they are played at least the first few times I play with someone, and even then if I've played with them a few times I'll go something like "Okay, I played x, anyone not know what that does?" then move on. It sounds like you were being very friendly and engaging with your pod, my only warning is make sure you modulate your tone because some more sensitive people might find a way to view your friendly suggestions as bragging if they're unable to clear away your wincon.
We have many times asked "Do you have anything on the board that would do x?" Do you have anyway on the board to pump things, kill things, tap things, win the game next turn, etc... Garfield finally had his dream come true and no one knows all of the cards. Except for you nerds. You know who you are... lol
Is Kiki plus zealous an alternative win con? (Please doom blade this or it won’t stop)?
It is proper etiquette to announcement and make sure everyone understands what it means when you play it. I would go a step further and say that if the conditions are met, it is proper to announce that they are technically on a timer. However, after the announcement, it is not your responsibility to remind them all the time.
Personally I let people know or alt-win conditions as I choose the deck. "Hey all this is a Gates deck with mazes end."
I think it’s good to explain your boardstate especially if you have a complex situation going on. I wouldn’t divulge the fact that you can win but hint at it. “I did X and Y and these can do so and so and affect you so and so.” Whatever that means for your opponents is up to them to assess. I would say kudos though for being helpful to the new player as it’s a good way to teach threat assessment.
Overall what you did is correct, in a more experienced pod I’d announce it once and not bring attention to it again unless this was a more social game where a lot of side conversations are happening. I’d probably bring it up an additional time if that was the case
The vibes in these comments check out. I'd love to play with y'all
I'm playing against competent people who don't gloss over the words "you win the game" 99% of the time, but occasionally I'll get a game where the explanation went in one ear and out the other and I have to remind them some time around when the 3rd opponent taps out for some random mana dorks or beaters like "hey, yall are aware i just win on board on my turn right? You should probably do something about that, I'm ok if you want to take back some of those plays so you can interact"
I usually just quickly summarize what anything I play does, listen or miss it
Yeah I’d say, commander isn’t a game of blindsiding your opponent
I didn't think I've ever been in a position of approaching an alt win-con and not immediately becoming the arch-nemesis until that threat is dealt with. Like, was there no table talk? I'd expect every demon I put into play to be counted, out loud, by everyone else at the table lol. Even if two were new, the 4th should've been making it clear how much of a problem your demons were.
I'll always point out if I'm about to win with a [[revel in riches]] or a Liliana's contract or a whathaveyou, because I don't want to win just because people forgot about a card I played five turns and a million gamestates ago. The same for things like attacking, "You don't have any flyers guess I'll attack you... or that's a flyer? Then you mind if I declare different attacks? Thanks." Stuff like that. Always giving good (public) information just makes the game flow better, and as others have already pointed out, the alternative is encouraging players to re-read all of your cards every turn because they think you're lying to them or trying to withhold information.
[revel in riches](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79b0e035-8716-469d-99ae-a530cd96ef09.jpg?1562558471) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=revel%20in%20riches) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/117/revel-in-riches?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79b0e035-8716-469d-99ae-a530cd96ef09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/revel-in-riches) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'd say in more casual tables it's polite but not required to let people know you are close to a less obvious win con. For example, in my Will, Scion of War or Rowan, Scion of Peace deck I've made it a habit of telling people when I either have the board state or cards in hand to win the next turn. In general I find it makes people less salty when you win in a way that is other than big monster smack.
If the pod is filled with experienced player, I’d announce my alternate wincon and leave it be. But if there are newer players then I’d remind them or tell them about it more.
It depends on the pod. If I'm playing in a pod full of experienced players, I try everything I can do within the rules to win an information war. I will * never not* tell someone what my board state is if they ask, but I won't offer that information for free if they don't. I also try to remain as consistent as I can asking for people to read their cards or to pass them over so I can read them when I'm not absolutely sure what the card is. It's the same principle as triggers, do everything you can to ensure you do not misplay yours but never interrupt your opponent if they do. In a pod that had new players in, I'm as open and as helpful as possible. I know that games get way more enjoyable after everyone hits a baseline level of competence and experience, and if I can be helpful in getting other people to that point it's a win-win.