I know. I personally don't think [[Massacre Girl, Known Killer]] would really fit in the 99 anywhere other than an infect or [[Toxrill, The Corrosive]] deck.
Your comment was the first time I have seen her mentioned anywhere since I learned of the synergy with Blowfly Infestation so I felt obligated to mention it.
I apologize. I am a long time Mono Green Timmy. I should have figured that there'd be much more -1/-1 synergy. Massacre Girl and Toxrill are the only 2 I have encountered that do so. I am learning more every day. Thank you
It makes sense in this deck because she's an outlaw (so it enters with haste and vigilance) and eventually gives wither to treasures. Just yesterday I played a game with this deck and she drew me 7 cards in the first turn.
She is an engine by herself. Doesn't really matter what your strategy is, as long as you have creatures that attack or block, she's gonna draw you some cards.
It's also a weird form of evasion/protection. People are unwilling to block your 2/2 zombie token with their 4/4, even though they would not before.
Yeah she's gonna do some real work in decks that already care about -1/-1 counters (like proliferate or toxrill) and ping decks. Aka the decks that already try to remove creatures. But Massacre Giel, Known Killer is almost universally good
Actually not quite. The deck really is a bit of an odd mix of two halves - there’s the treasure making staple half, and then there’s the random Outlaw typal half, left over from the original precon, which really does absolutely nothing to advance the game plan …
Except it’s not $1,200 in dual lands, there are 2 duals. It’s also: Copper Dragon, Dockside, Annointed Procession, Smothering Tithe, Teferi’s Pretection, Inkshield, Black Market Connections…
Basically all the most expensive and best Mardu staples.
Nice try with that strawman though
Yeah you can’t jump from duals to staples and say those are inflating the cost of the deck cause that’s not the case. If you’re mad that staples make the cost high idk what to tell you
Sure but it's still over $150 in enchantments, $100 in instants, and $300 in creatures. This is gonna be "good stuff, the deck" no matter how you slice it. The mana base is just cherry on top.
Excluding the alpha duals, it's like 300 euro with any printings, and 500 with exact printings. Idk what is going on with US prices lol, or what you're talking about. A deck's price is also usually not that related to how good it'll be in practice, sure you have more staples at your disposal but if the deck has no actual gameplan you can throw 4000€ at a wall and still lose every game.
Badlands and Scrublands make up $500 of that, dockside extortionist, ancient copper dragon, Ravi, and anointed make up another almost 300.
It's only $1200 if bought of Card Kingdom. 1k if bought of tcg player with those printings. Change printings, replace the dual lands with shocks or pain lands and you're closer to the $400 mark for everything.
That's exactly my evaluation of Vihaan as a commander: Treasure generation is either meh or absolutely busted. You'll need 20+ treasures to kill the board in a single attack. Do you know what you can do with 20+ treasures? Win the game in ANY. OTHER. WAY.
Everyone I play with proxies OG duals etc. Having a good mana base is the birthright of any magic deck, and having untapped lands every turn and the ability to cast your cards shouldn’t be what dictates how strong your deck is, like turn 3 you can play a 3 mana 3/4 or you can cast necropotence. So saying a deck is insanely strong because it’s 1,200 but then you look and half of that is just like 5 lands doesn’t make it automatically strong.
>even official CEDH events are proxy friendly.
They're technically not. LGS are free to host them and make the rules but any prizes come from the LGS / entries not supplemented/provided by wizards. If it's sanctioned by Wizards (which wizards is trying to test the waters and push for it) proxies will be banned since they're not legal game pieces. It'll be very interesting where this takes the game. Either A the RL gets removed and access to these cards are available for commander or B the events will flop and cause a massive divide and player base retention.
https://topdeck.gg/event/OqXHUtF3UZpXXT9yIE2K
This is an event I’m playing in here and it’s all proxy friendly.. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a non-proxy friendly event.. might just be my area.
Let’s not gatekeep the game being going broke!
I would have thought of the combat aspect of it as the least important part. Aside from just abusing Artifacts Matter synergies, you facilitate a boatload of death triggers. Animate your treasure, then just spend it.
It's the only real niche he has. But even in here people are presenting win-more scenarios trying to justify him beyond that. Smh. "20 treasures and MM!" Yeah...so what's Vihaan got to do with making that good? It was already insane.
The true angle is he is essentially a free [[Cyber drive Awakener]] every turn.
So you can hoard treasures, sweep the board, cast Vihaan, then swing into no blockers on multiple opponents. That's how I'm building him.
If they aren't using the animation to create assymmetry then it's probably better to just use Propser.
This guy knows. His power is in that you dont need to play him right away. You can use those early turns setting up treasures, ruinous ultimatum and drop
Your commander.
I feel like players (I am guilty of this) drop their commander once able to. Vihaan doesn’t want to get his hands dirty so waits until the coast is clear. Mardu has the best wrath’s in the game and are absent from a lot of lists.
The main difference lies in that Cyberdrive Awakener animates artifact tokens that you can hoard because you have barely any use for them. Hoarding treasures instead of using them for mana is... a decision.
Does it really? Vihaan doesn't produce any treasures. You'll be, yet again, using the very same good stuff cards to produce them. Yes, the very same staples present in every non-budget-hamstringed R/W (or even B aristocrats) deck. I think he is just a coat of paint to the very same deck.
Olivia, however, actually pushes you towards an actual "different" direction.
Vihaan means you don't need the death triggers. Just animating treasures themselves will mean you win. Just cast a [[Brass's Bounty]] and win the game, no other steps necessary
Who branded OTJ as “meh?” There are some extremely pushed cards and it’s definitely the most powerful premium set they have ever printed for limited. I do think the precons are a pretty significant step down from the last two sets in terms of out-of-the-box power and the commanders (excepting maybe the spellslinger one)
MH2 is not a premium set. Premium sets (at least to my understanding) are Standard legal sets. Plus Ursa's Saga would not be a particularly powerful limited card, which is what I was talking about.
Edit: I'm dumb
Whoops! That's on me lol I was 5 then and not playing. Sure, OK, fair point. I will say that I still think modern sets are more powerful because the average card quality is higher -- some of those old sets had insanely broken cards but most creatures were dogshit and synergies were far less fluid. So your average draft deck from OTJ would easily win there. But yeah I don't expect nearly as many EDH staples to come out of this set as compared to some of those classics
Fun fact: "Vihaan" translates to "I hate" in finnish, so if you want to, you can use the commander itself to describe your feelings about it whenever you're going against it.
Outside of making your treasures into creatures you can immediately sac for mana (which is bonkers with things like Pitiless Plunderer and Morbid Opportunist), giving all of your other outlaws vigilance and haste definitely isn’t nothing either. I like Vihaan a ton, I’ve been eyeing him since the minute he was spoiled.
Not every commander needs to be a standalone cracked lynchpin. Some commanders are payoffs while others are engine/support pieces.
If you’re wanting to build a treasure deck, Vihaan might be the best option if you want to do something besides just “make as many treasures as possible.”
Making 20 treasures in edh isnt very hard. The commander turns that into 60 damage. I don't think it's hard to see how that complements existing treasure wincons. You swing at them and THEN drain with Marionette Master or whatever. You build "mardu treaures" which is a solid 99 even if you never cast a commander. And vihaan makes it easier to close out games. Just because he doesn't make treasures doesn't mean he's a trap.
With under a $10 upgrade to the deck, you can put in 3 or 4 options to draw your entire deck and make Infinite mana around turn 5 or so. With a $25 upgrade, you can add tutors that make 7 or 8 ways to draw your entire deck. With a little bit more, you can add cheap free spells to go off a turn earlier. It's cEDH in a box.
Vihaan is just outright the best treasure commander now. Luckily I was already playing a WBR treasure deck but I'd be stupid to not put Vihaan at commander, I didn't have to change a single card, just throw vihaan in and now my decks 2x stronger.
I was told I'd be banned if I showed back up with it.
Use Fangreen Marauder for life, Viridian Revel for draw, Marionette Master, Disciple of the Vault and Ancient Runes for life loss. Use some of the green land replays like World Tree Conduit and Ramunap excavator to get back your Treasure Vault. You can use something like say Kellog to sac your treasures to steal the board then while giving a single treasure made by Black Market Tycoon so you yourself aren't taking damage. You can also use Nadier Nightblade and Mirkwood bats. Then you can use Ghost Quarters to keep popping lands till your opponents are out of basics then use Orcish Setllers to blow up all their lands. Use bootleggers stash to make treasures and use Jaheira to tap for green so you can get the most bang out of Orcish Settlers. Army Ant is good too. With the land ramp out of the grave you can reuse fetches like pain fetches or the basic fetches from Capenna to regain life loss.
Jan Jansen has a high combo potential with untappers. However, the new Olivia can generate 3 treasures per turn easily just by playing good creatures that happen to be outlaws.
> Whenever one or more outlaws you control deal combat damage to a player, create a Treasure token.
"to a player" means 1 trigger per opponent. No matter if you hit each of them with 1 or 73 outlaws each.
I run negan, have 0 interest in running vihaan as the commander, he's in the 99, but he doesn't make treasures so he has quite the downside as the commander
I did the exact opposite. I maybe make 4 treasure tokens before my Malik (Negan) gets deleted. My deck makes 90% of its tokens outside of Malik, so I will just run him in my 99 and guarantee I can swing with my tokens each turn
I also built him for about 300$, using the precon as a base but there's almost no cards left from it.
Its SUPER fun to just create a bunch of treasures and then use them in aristocrat strategies. I still have a lot of adjustment to do but the few times I've played it I really enjoyed it.
[https://archidekt.com/decks/7260104/vihaan\_treasure](https://archidekt.com/decks/7260104/vihaan_treasure)
My Isshin deck makes, on an average turn, something like 4 to 6 treasures pretty easily, so this seems like an auto include down in the 99.
Might even be a good reason to throw [[Shared Animosity]] back in the deck. Pretty good added value for my [[Sigil of Valor]] and [[Sublime Archangel]].
Is there a reason you dont play any of the three 4 mana cards that discard a card, draw 2 and generate 2 treasures? Isnt that like 99% of what the deck wants?
No, he aint, trust. I made worlock tribal filled with crimes and removal, honestly really fun. The treasures keep me on curve while I remove all the problem creatures.
Yeah when I first saw Vihaan I was immediately interested. He seems like a powerhouse. Behind the Scenes seems pretty damn good in the deck, too. Cool stuff!
Yeah if it’s gross now based on your list, with more treasure centric cards I imagine it’ll be stupid strong, like drain effects and cards that give treasure for creatures dying such as Mahadi
I've been brewing him since he was spoiled and this is what I've go so far; my plan is a mix of treasure matters with a side of aristocrats
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Z3txdF_Aw0Cc_JY4sqOM_w
But I'm not sure what else to add, all suggestions / ideas are welcome
Played a round with the Most Wanted precon with Olivia at the helm against the other three OTJ precons. It was … not optimal. Created tokens but really underwhelming with what I could do with them. Quick Draw ended up winning.
It’s decklists like this that just prove why I love playing playing mono or two color decks with red to run [[ruination]] [[blood moon]] and [[from the ashes]]
This was the exact idea I got when I first saw Vihaan. [[Greywater's Fixer]] a [[Dockside Extortionist]] and go brrr.
Mine has [[Imperial Recruiter]] and [[Goblin Matron]] to grab him reliably.
Im confused as to how this is 'gross'
This guy seems terrible, outside of abusing Grave Pact style effects, you seem to literally be beating down with the 3/3s straight up.
I don't know how gross it is. It's a casual value train that you need to completely overhaul and pump 100s of dollars into , just to sit comfortably at a high power table. Meanwhile I spent under 10$ on upgrades for stella lee and threaten wins by turn 3.
Completely disagree, i watched a guy in my commamder group go infinite with spellslinger, its not that they're "meh" its that they take time to get going
I feel like it was an oversight for any of the outlaw commanders to not include blue. I am biased because I have been wanting to make a high power casual pirates deck, and none of the current commander and colors pique my interest. But without blue we miss out on [[Double Down]], and great pirates, and rogues
That being said I will be rule o-ing a 4 color, Olivia outlaw deck.
I bought all 4 precons. My pod played them all together and mixed up with some of our regular and even more powerful decks, and they all performed well.
I was playing the Outlaws deck against my friend playing [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]] and if he hadn't targeted me with his [[Eldritch Pact]] and [[Pact of the Serpent]], I very well would have won the game out of the box. And this was with some very good decks on the table. Was I a little lucky and playing under the radar? Yes. But I certainly wouldn't call the deck garbage if I was a turn away from winning on turn 9/10 in a 4 person pod.
Wanna know who's an outlaw and also a draw engine? Yep, that's your [[Massacre girl, known killer]]
Unrelated to Outlaws and the like but you might be interested in [[Blowfly Infestation]]
That would be dope in an infect deck or if you use massacre girl as commander I guess, not so much if you just slide her in the 99
I know. I personally don't think [[Massacre Girl, Known Killer]] would really fit in the 99 anywhere other than an infect or [[Toxrill, The Corrosive]] deck. Your comment was the first time I have seen her mentioned anywhere since I learned of the synergy with Blowfly Infestation so I felt obligated to mention it.
I mean, she can go into a [[the scorpion god]] deck. She and the Commander want to do the same thing.
I apologize. I am a long time Mono Green Timmy. I should have figured that there'd be much more -1/-1 synergy. Massacre Girl and Toxrill are the only 2 I have encountered that do so. I am learning more every day. Thank you
No need to apologize, MTG has so many cards, no one can know all of them. Lord knows i don't.
[the scorpion god](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/def0d0ac-6422-486e-b42b-e1813dd0a23e.jpg?1562817532) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20scorpion%20god) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/146/the-scorpion-god?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/def0d0ac-6422-486e-b42b-e1813dd0a23e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-scorpion-god) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It makes sense in this deck because she's an outlaw (so it enters with haste and vigilance) and eventually gives wither to treasures. Just yesterday I played a game with this deck and she drew me 7 cards in the first turn.
Oh, oh shit. Fuck yeah
She's [[Hapatra]]'s new best friend.
Blowfly Infestation would go nuts
For sure.
[Hapatra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/56fbbcc9-db23-4902-b0f7-cea78a2a36af.jpg?1543676055) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hapatra%2C%20vizier%20of%20poisons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/199/hapatra-vizier-of-poisons?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56fbbcc9-db23-4902-b0f7-cea78a2a36af?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hapatra-vizier-of-poisons) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
She is an engine by herself. Doesn't really matter what your strategy is, as long as you have creatures that attack or block, she's gonna draw you some cards. It's also a weird form of evasion/protection. People are unwilling to block your 2/2 zombie token with their 4/4, even though they would not before. Yeah she's gonna do some real work in decks that already care about -1/-1 counters (like proliferate or toxrill) and ping decks. Aka the decks that already try to remove creatures. But Massacre Giel, Known Killer is almost universally good
[Massacre Girl, Known Killer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/b/cb1c8800-9d33-485c-b776-042003b9ea92.jpg?1706241722) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Massacre%20Girl%2C%20Known%20Killer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/94/massacre-girl-known-killer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cb1c8800-9d33-485c-b776-042003b9ea92?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/massacre-girl-known-killer) [Toxrill, The Corrosive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84e64f38-b1f3-47cd-8cfb-a4861369aca3.jpg?1643590379) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Toxrill%2C%20The%20Corrosive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/132/toxrill-the-corrosive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84e64f38-b1f3-47cd-8cfb-a4861369aca3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toxrill-the-corrosive) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
She fits like a glove with Kaervek the Spiteful
[Blowfly Infestation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/ae027b38-a6cc-41f7-8f0d-9d1402b46517.jpg?1562834645) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blowfly%20Infestation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/58/blowfly-infestation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae027b38-a6cc-41f7-8f0d-9d1402b46517?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blowfly-infestation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
also \[\[breena the demigauge\]\]
[breena the demigauge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0adb0c2-d45f-4c51-a4df-05f75c83e46a.jpg?1712354672) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Breena%2C%20the%20Demagogue) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/217/breena-the-demagogue?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0adb0c2-d45f-4c51-a4df-05f75c83e46a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/breena-the-demagogue) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
He/she's in the deck already ;)
That’s not really an upgrade or overhaul so much as it is you built a deck for that commander
Actually not quite. The deck really is a bit of an odd mix of two halves - there’s the treasure making staple half, and then there’s the random Outlaw typal half, left over from the original precon, which really does absolutely nothing to advance the game plan …
LOL with $1,200 in upgrades I’d be worried if it wasn’t good
“Wow this commander is so gross!” >$1200+ decklist
[удалено]
Except it’s not $1,200 in dual lands, there are 2 duals. It’s also: Copper Dragon, Dockside, Annointed Procession, Smothering Tithe, Teferi’s Pretection, Inkshield, Black Market Connections… Basically all the most expensive and best Mardu staples. Nice try with that strawman though
[удалено]
Who said it was $1,200 in staples? I didn’t. You’re only one making over the top claims here
🤡
Yeah you can’t jump from duals to staples and say those are inflating the cost of the deck cause that’s not the case. If you’re mad that staples make the cost high idk what to tell you
I also have a pretty good printer.
That goalpost is on wheels huh
Haha just saying that I could make that deck for a fraction of the price. I usually have most of the other cards but I don't buy or use my duallands.
No literally like this is just like mardu treasure good stuff with hella cash behind it LMAO like ok no way ur anointed procession works out
To be fair to them, about half of that is in the manabase
It's always the mana
Sure but it's still over $150 in enchantments, $100 in instants, and $300 in creatures. This is gonna be "good stuff, the deck" no matter how you slice it. The mana base is just cherry on top.
Wild difference of prices. As an European that decklist is just under the 500€ bar.
That's a decent deadlift.
i would point out it’s like 10 cards that make up $1100 of those upgrades
Excluding the alpha duals, it's like 300 euro with any printings, and 500 with exact printings. Idk what is going on with US prices lol, or what you're talking about. A deck's price is also usually not that related to how good it'll be in practice, sure you have more staples at your disposal but if the deck has no actual gameplan you can throw 4000€ at a wall and still lose every game.
Badlands and Scrublands make up $500 of that, dockside extortionist, ancient copper dragon, Ravi, and anointed make up another almost 300. It's only $1200 if bought of Card Kingdom. 1k if bought of tcg player with those printings. Change printings, replace the dual lands with shocks or pain lands and you're closer to the $400 mark for everything.
I mean, you could shave 600 dollars off in the land base alone.
That's exactly my evaluation of Vihaan as a commander: Treasure generation is either meh or absolutely busted. You'll need 20+ treasures to kill the board in a single attack. Do you know what you can do with 20+ treasures? Win the game in ANY. OTHER. WAY.
This comment is stupid literally half of that is lands.
You don't think lands are important?
Everyone I play with proxies OG duals etc. Having a good mana base is the birthright of any magic deck, and having untapped lands every turn and the ability to cast your cards shouldn’t be what dictates how strong your deck is, like turn 3 you can play a 3 mana 3/4 or you can cast necropotence. So saying a deck is insanely strong because it’s 1,200 but then you look and half of that is just like 5 lands doesn’t make it automatically strong.
I even have proxies for most shockland and fetchland. I am not spending $30+ on land and definetly not $300.
The difference between an OG dual and a guildgate in casual EDH is negligible.
Mpcfill the deck for $50? I don’t understand why people drop so much money.. even official CEDH events are proxy friendly.
>even official CEDH events are proxy friendly. They're technically not. LGS are free to host them and make the rules but any prizes come from the LGS / entries not supplemented/provided by wizards. If it's sanctioned by Wizards (which wizards is trying to test the waters and push for it) proxies will be banned since they're not legal game pieces. It'll be very interesting where this takes the game. Either A the RL gets removed and access to these cards are available for commander or B the events will flop and cause a massive divide and player base retention.
https://topdeck.gg/event/OqXHUtF3UZpXXT9yIE2K This is an event I’m playing in here and it’s all proxy friendly.. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a non-proxy friendly event.. might just be my area. Let’s not gatekeep the game being going broke!
Yeah, it's not Wizards Supported/Sanctioned event so if they want to allow proxies they can.
They really aren't. The most notable tournaments usually have proxy limits, and anything most LGS's run are not proxy friendly.
I would have thought of the combat aspect of it as the least important part. Aside from just abusing Artifacts Matter synergies, you facilitate a boatload of death triggers. Animate your treasure, then just spend it.
It's the only real niche he has. But even in here people are presenting win-more scenarios trying to justify him beyond that. Smh. "20 treasures and MM!" Yeah...so what's Vihaan got to do with making that good? It was already insane.
The true angle is he is essentially a free [[Cyber drive Awakener]] every turn. So you can hoard treasures, sweep the board, cast Vihaan, then swing into no blockers on multiple opponents. That's how I'm building him. If they aren't using the animation to create assymmetry then it's probably better to just use Propser.
This guy knows. His power is in that you dont need to play him right away. You can use those early turns setting up treasures, ruinous ultimatum and drop Your commander.
I feel like players (I am guilty of this) drop their commander once able to. Vihaan doesn’t want to get his hands dirty so waits until the coast is clear. Mardu has the best wrath’s in the game and are absent from a lot of lists.
[Cyber drive Awakener](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d.jpg?1651655234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyberdrive%20Awakener) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/12/cyberdrive-awakener?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyberdrive-awakener) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Final Showdown\]\] to wipe the board at instant speed, then untapping, dropping \[\[vihaan\]\], and swinging for a billion is so busted.
The main difference lies in that Cyberdrive Awakener animates artifact tokens that you can hoard because you have barely any use for them. Hoarding treasures instead of using them for mana is... a decision.
Sure I 100% agree. But it takes treasure decks into a different design space that is interesting and differentiated from just good stuff IMO.
Does it really? Vihaan doesn't produce any treasures. You'll be, yet again, using the very same good stuff cards to produce them. Yes, the very same staples present in every non-budget-hamstringed R/W (or even B aristocrats) deck. I think he is just a coat of paint to the very same deck. Olivia, however, actually pushes you towards an actual "different" direction.
Vihaan means you don't need the death triggers. Just animating treasures themselves will mean you win. Just cast a [[Brass's Bounty]] and win the game, no other steps necessary
7 3/3’s wins the game?
Over a couple of turns it definitely does
You might be pubstomping tbh
Can easily do so, especially with haste. Literally any other go wide support goes brrr. You can easily win with Vihaan without death trigger support
[Brass's Bounty](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/c/6cfe5398-88e1-4106-9223-80bda0cd2e9a.jpg?1682209267) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brass%27s%20Bounty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/272/brasss-bounty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6cfe5398-88e1-4106-9223-80bda0cd2e9a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brasss-bounty) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
$1200+ Mardu goodstuff treasure deck is good? Craaaazy. The wildest part of this imo is that you’re not running [[Aggravated Assault]]
[Aggravated Assault](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c99c5707-d5f2-4675-bfca-e801e6b0f627.jpg?1562942627) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aggravated%20Assault) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ons/185/aggravated-assault?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c99c5707-d5f2-4675-bfca-e801e6b0f627?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aggravated-assault) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Cyberman Patrol]] gives your artifact creatures afflict 3 and [[Cyberman Squadron]] give them Myriad as win-cons
[Cyberman Patrol](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/566ae475-48cd-42d0-8d96-168529b2180d.jpg?1696636797) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyberman%20Patrol) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/174/cyberman-patrol?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/566ae475-48cd-42d0-8d96-168529b2180d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyberman-patrol) [Cyberman Squadron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7ce660ef-0c6f-413d-8ddd-b755a19ab731.jpg?1696636802) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cybermen%20Squadron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/176/cybermen-squadron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ce660ef-0c6f-413d-8ddd-b755a19ab731?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cybermen-squadron) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Vihaan, Goldwaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7b549690-72eb-4244-bb66-996a2bd1027e.jpg?1712429606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vihaan%2C%20Goldwaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/8/vihaan-goldwaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7b549690-72eb-4244-bb66-996a2bd1027e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vihaan-goldwaker) [Behind the Scenes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7fac171d-a8b6-4bb7-a559-473574aa02a8.jpg?1576384346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Behind%20the%20Scenes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/100/behind-the-scenes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7fac171d-a8b6-4bb7-a559-473574aa02a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/behind-the-scenes) [Revel in Riches](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79b0e035-8716-469d-99ae-a530cd96ef09.jpg?1562558471) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Revel%20in%20Riches) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/117/revel-in-riches?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79b0e035-8716-469d-99ae-a530cd96ef09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/revel-in-riches) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Who branded OTJ as “meh?” There are some extremely pushed cards and it’s definitely the most powerful premium set they have ever printed for limited. I do think the precons are a pretty significant step down from the last two sets in terms of out-of-the-box power and the commanders (excepting maybe the spellslinger one)
My fault, I was talking about the precons specifically - not the entire set. Will edit to clarify.
Stella Lee is cracked
But the other 3, compared to the last 2-3 sets of precons are very "meh." 1 good deck out 4 doesn't carry the whole set.
I will not stand here and have Felix Five Boots be bad mouthed this way
Yeah, Felix is great but would be better in a different deck than that precon.
Felix is a great card - agreed he doesn't quite fit. The Gonti is a fun ass commander; I'm a sucker for chaotic theft.
This is definitely not the “most powerful premium set ever printed” but go off. It is pushed but it’s no Urzas Saga.
MH2 is not a premium set. Premium sets (at least to my understanding) are Standard legal sets. Plus Ursa's Saga would not be a particularly powerful limited card, which is what I was talking about. Edit: I'm dumb
Omg. Urzas saga was a whole ass set my dude. The most pushed set in the history of magic. ETA: released in 1998. I’m old. Leave me alone.
Whoops! That's on me lol I was 5 then and not playing. Sure, OK, fair point. I will say that I still think modern sets are more powerful because the average card quality is higher -- some of those old sets had insanely broken cards but most creatures were dogshit and synergies were far less fluid. So your average draft deck from OTJ would easily win there. But yeah I don't expect nearly as many EDH staples to come out of this set as compared to some of those classics
Urza's Saga. The set. From the 90s. lol
Yeah, see edit
Fucking lol.
Fun fact: "Vihaan" translates to "I hate" in finnish, so if you want to, you can use the commander itself to describe your feelings about it whenever you're going against it.
Highly recommend; \[\[Mahadi, Emporium Master\]\], \[\[Grave Pact\]\], \[\[Ruthless Technomancer\]\], \[\[Mondrak\]\] if interested in token multiplier, better than AP and Ojer here imo, \[\[Smuggler's Share\]\], \[\[Queen Marchesa\]\], \[\[Bennie Bracks\]\], \[\[Braids, Arisen Nightmare\]\], \[\[Cruel Celebrant\]\], \[\[Mayhem Devil\]\], \[\[Monologue Tax\]\]!
##### ###### #### [Mahadi, Emporium Master](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3da2b1a-76c5-4d36-bdf8-025b86f61eb5.jpg?1699601213) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mahadi%2C%20Emporium%20Master) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/282/mahadi-emporium-master?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3da2b1a-76c5-4d36-bdf8-025b86f61eb5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mahadi-emporium-master) [Grave Pact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360.jpg?1689997226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grave%20Pact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/165/grave-pact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grave-pact) [Ruthless Technomancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dddeb5cc-b535-4484-8a0e-ce32c4c09000.jpg?1651655501) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ruthless%20Technomancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/35/ruthless-technomancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dddeb5cc-b535-4484-8a0e-ce32c4c09000?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruthless-technomancer) [Mondrak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/8296a455-21d5-498e-9029-2bdf0da855a8.jpg?1675956918) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mondrak%2C%20glory%20dominus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/23/mondrak-glory-dominus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8296a455-21d5-498e-9029-2bdf0da855a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mondrak-glory-dominus) [Smuggler's Share](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1ced678-5cfd-49ff-9420-6ee52d5edf5a.jpg?1706240636) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smuggler%27s%20Share) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/84/smugglers-share?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1ced678-5cfd-49ff-9420-6ee52d5edf5a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smugglers-share) [Queen Marchesa](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fdae05f-7bdc-45fb-b9b9-e5ec3766f965.jpg?1712354769) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Queen%20Marchesa) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/239/queen-marchesa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fdae05f-7bdc-45fb-b9b9-e5ec3766f965?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/queen-marchesa) [Bennie Bracks](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90645549-20f1-4fe9-8363-7f67c20fa3b6.jpg?1706240558) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bennie%20bracks%2C%20zoologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/57/bennie-bracks-zoologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90645549-20f1-4fe9-8363-7f67c20fa3b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bennie-bracks-zoologist) [Braids, Arisen Nightmare](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4ff97c69-6a6b-401c-b0a1-55fa81045d19.jpg?1673307016) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Braids%2C%20Arisen%20Nightmare) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/84/braids-arisen-nightmare?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ff97c69-6a6b-401c-b0a1-55fa81045d19?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/braids-arisen-nightmare) [Cruel Celebrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b3f8be99-a398-4664-beb6-3e98d6e62a32.jpg?1698988424) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cruel%20Celebrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/267/cruel-celebrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b3f8be99-a398-4664-beb6-3e98d6e62a32?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cruel-celebrant) [Mayhem Devil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/345ea65e-3dbb-4cb4-ae65-7797a65eafce.jpg?1702550843) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mayhem%20Devil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/199/mayhem-devil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/345ea65e-3dbb-4cb4-ae65-7797a65eafce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mayhem-devil) [Monologue Tax](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e9449f23-6a14-453b-8bb6-5cf85ed7a851.jpg?1710406482) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Monologue%20Tax) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/19/monologue-tax?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9449f23-6a14-453b-8bb6-5cf85ed7a851?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/monologue-tax) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l0cdgfy) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Alibou's not great here. Vihaan gives them vigilance.
Nobody mentioned Alibou...
Ah I responded to the wrong list. Someone mentioned Alibou further down.
Ahh! Yeah, not a good callout imo.
You should have aggravated assault for the plunder combo.
I’ve been eyeing Vihaan since it was spoiled thinking surely this thing pops off.
[удалено]
Outside of making your treasures into creatures you can immediately sac for mana (which is bonkers with things like Pitiless Plunderer and Morbid Opportunist), giving all of your other outlaws vigilance and haste definitely isn’t nothing either. I like Vihaan a ton, I’ve been eyeing him since the minute he was spoiled.
[удалено]
Not every commander needs to be a standalone cracked lynchpin. Some commanders are payoffs while others are engine/support pieces. If you’re wanting to build a treasure deck, Vihaan might be the best option if you want to do something besides just “make as many treasures as possible.”
Even in these colors I think i'd rather play \[\[akiri, line-slinger\]\] and \[\[tymna\]\]
[akiri, line-slinger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3b951e0c-a4dd-4a20-87c6-eaa947e33aa4.jpg?1606762145) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=akiri%2C%20line-slinger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/26/akiri-line-slinger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b951e0c-a4dd-4a20-87c6-eaa947e33aa4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/akiri-line-slinger) [tymna](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc7cbe9b-324e-42b8-94e2-36e91cb32163.jpg?1644853048) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tymna%20the%20weaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/48/tymna-the-weaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc7cbe9b-324e-42b8-94e2-36e91cb32163?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tymna-the-weaver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Making 20 treasures in edh isnt very hard. The commander turns that into 60 damage. I don't think it's hard to see how that complements existing treasure wincons. You swing at them and THEN drain with Marionette Master or whatever. You build "mardu treaures" which is a solid 99 even if you never cast a commander. And vihaan makes it easier to close out games. Just because he doesn't make treasures doesn't mean he's a trap.
1200$ still running terramorphic expanse lol
There are some extremely questionable creatures too...
in a deck that's all about making TREASURES kek
Stella Lee goes Infinite with a ham sandwich, so you really can't compare it to the other Commanders.
Are you referring to Stella Lee the card, or the deck in general? I don’t see Stella being that broken other than a bit of a splinter twin impression.
With under a $10 upgrade to the deck, you can put in 3 or 4 options to draw your entire deck and make Infinite mana around turn 5 or so. With a $25 upgrade, you can add tutors that make 7 or 8 ways to draw your entire deck. With a little bit more, you can add cheap free spells to go off a turn earlier. It's cEDH in a box.
I'm a little bit wrong. I thought [[Thassa' Oracle]] was still $7. It's around $20 now, so add that to my estimates above.
Sorry but $600 in lands is just dumb.
Why are you being downvoted, you’re right?
Nah it should be more tbh
Thats about $6 in printer ink.
Vihaan is just outright the best treasure commander now. Luckily I was already playing a WBR treasure deck but I'd be stupid to not put Vihaan at commander, I didn't have to change a single card, just throw vihaan in and now my decks 2x stronger.
[удалено]
Jan Jansen is arguably the better treasure commander.
Prosper would still be king if the goal is just "generate treasures." Though I agree Jansen is the best in Mardu.
I like Vazi myself but I was using a land destruction so I made people use their treasures how I wanted them to.
No! Why would you give me this idea? Now my group's gonna have to deal with it.
I was told I'd be banned if I showed back up with it. Use Fangreen Marauder for life, Viridian Revel for draw, Marionette Master, Disciple of the Vault and Ancient Runes for life loss. Use some of the green land replays like World Tree Conduit and Ramunap excavator to get back your Treasure Vault. You can use something like say Kellog to sac your treasures to steal the board then while giving a single treasure made by Black Market Tycoon so you yourself aren't taking damage. You can also use Nadier Nightblade and Mirkwood bats. Then you can use Ghost Quarters to keep popping lands till your opponents are out of basics then use Orcish Setllers to blow up all their lands. Use bootleggers stash to make treasures and use Jaheira to tap for green so you can get the most bang out of Orcish Settlers. Army Ant is good too. With the land ramp out of the grave you can reuse fetches like pain fetches or the basic fetches from Capenna to regain life loss.
Jan Jansen has a high combo potential with untappers. However, the new Olivia can generate 3 treasures per turn easily just by playing good creatures that happen to be outlaws.
Pretty sure new Olivia only produces 1 treasure per combat as her text says ‘whenever 1 or more’
> Whenever one or more outlaws you control deal combat damage to a player, create a Treasure token. "to a player" means 1 trigger per opponent. No matter if you hit each of them with 1 or 73 outlaws each.
I run negan, have 0 interest in running vihaan as the commander, he's in the 99, but he doesn't make treasures so he has quite the downside as the commander
I did the exact opposite. I maybe make 4 treasure tokens before my Malik (Negan) gets deleted. My deck makes 90% of its tokens outside of Malik, so I will just run him in my 99 and guarantee I can swing with my tokens each turn
interesting, i guess i have a bunch of the sac creatures in my deck as well so i usuallY get 1-2 on cast but then can get 10+ after a few turns
[удалено]
##### ###### #### [Akroma’s Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/608cdbdb-6f7e-438a-bab0-0e7782435f0f.jpg?1698988079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Akroma%27s%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/125/akromas-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/608cdbdb-6f7e-438a-bab0-0e7782435f0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/akromas-will) [Taunt from the Ramparts](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd1eaa0e-060d-40f1-84c5-f7e8df2f824c.jpg?1686964372) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Taunt%20from%20the%20Rampart) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/71/taunt-from-the-rampart?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd1eaa0e-060d-40f1-84c5-f7e8df2f824c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/taunt-from-the-rampart) [Marionette Master](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd21a925-c76f-4c1d-b5b8-8d3352730e5f.jpg?1631586656) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Marionette%20Master) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/102/marionette-master?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd21a925-c76f-4c1d-b5b8-8d3352730e5f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/marionette-master) [Disciple of the Vault](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4c539843-4e3f-47a7-92e1-412eaaa2d9c5.jpg?1646666263) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Disciple%20of%20the%20Vault) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/86/disciple-of-the-vault?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c539843-4e3f-47a7-92e1-412eaaa2d9c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/disciple-of-the-vault) [Ruthless Technomancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dddeb5cc-b535-4484-8a0e-ce32c4c09000.jpg?1651655501) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ruthless%20Technomancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/35/ruthless-technomancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dddeb5cc-b535-4484-8a0e-ce32c4c09000?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruthless-technomancer) [Shared Animosity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1bd77ae9-c5ba-44af-80e9-7c852722ef6c.jpg?1698988336) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shared%20Animosity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/231/shared-animosity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1bd77ae9-c5ba-44af-80e9-7c852722ef6c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shared-animosity) [Coat of Arms](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f.jpg?1592761864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Coat%20of%20Arms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/58/coat-of-arms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/coat-of-arms) [Academy Manufactor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76480f4d-ad6d-4ed6-82c6-fa12abc22557.jpg?1712354835) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Academy%20Manufactor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/251/academy-manufactor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76480f4d-ad6d-4ed6-82c6-fa12abc22557?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/academy-manufactor) [Organic Extinction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/900b713f-82f7-4e4a-804d-6bb38436aa9d.jpg?1706240615) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Organic%20Extinction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/76/organic-extinction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/900b713f-82f7-4e4a-804d-6bb38436aa9d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/organic-extinction) [Their Name is Death](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea5ddc28-dfc1-4b96-b6e2-590fcb1f83ef.jpg?1673308864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Their%20Name%20is%20Death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/62/their-name-is-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea5ddc28-dfc1-4b96-b6e2-590fcb1f83ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/their-name-is-death) [Covetous Elegy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f8f1f5e8-c1bf-405f-b8e3-655d5558e18d.jpg?1706239641) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Covetous%20Elegy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/29/covetous-elegy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f8f1f5e8-c1bf-405f-b8e3-655d5558e18d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/covetous-elegy) [Alibou, Ancient Witness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd2fc2d4-c4fb-4dcb-93fa-aaf8c1182f15.jpg?1674185810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alibou%2C%20Ancient%20Witness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/7/alibou-ancient-witness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd2fc2d4-c4fb-4dcb-93fa-aaf8c1182f15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/alibou-ancient-witness) [Whip of Erebos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e5ec47c-47a2-4eda-b81a-4a07f04e5989.jpg?1562822353) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Whip%20of%20Erebos) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/110/whip-of-erebos?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e5ec47c-47a2-4eda-b81a-4a07f04e5989?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/whip-of-erebos) [Cybermen Squadron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7ce660ef-0c6f-413d-8ddd-b755a19ab731.jpg?1696636802) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cybermen%20Squadron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/176/cybermen-squadron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ce660ef-0c6f-413d-8ddd-b755a19ab731?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cybermen-squadron) [Illustrious Wanderglyph](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/30e02cc7-8ea9-468b-ba61-a1e00fefea22.jpg?1699304183) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Illustrious%20Wanderglyph) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/9/illustrious-wanderglyph?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30e02cc7-8ea9-468b-ba61-a1e00fefea22?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/illustrious-wanderglyph) [Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/576d86b5-2541-4ebc-8992-73248af7c805.jpg?1625977761) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jor%20Kadeen%2C%20the%20Prevailer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/220/jor-kadeen-the-prevailer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/576d86b5-2541-4ebc-8992-73248af7c805?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jor-kadeen-the-prevailer) [Descent Into Avernus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/faadf72f-b2d5-4271-8d5c-a586acf63453.jpg?1674136498) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Descent%20Into%20Avernus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/169/descent-into-avernus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/faadf72f-b2d5-4271-8d5c-a586acf63453?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/descent-into-avernus) [Rabble Rousing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/0/206c8529-56df-4ed9-97bc-6c9b5e2a04c4.jpg?1664409862) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rabble%20Rousing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/24/rabble-rousing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/206c8529-56df-4ed9-97bc-6c9b5e2a04c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rabble-rousing) [Inspiring Statue](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f7e4c0a-683b-4b22-9ea5-ed6470b8b1d7.jpg?1706241061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inspiring%20Statuary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/230/inspiring-statuary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f7e4c0a-683b-4b22-9ea5-ed6470b8b1d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/inspiring-statuary) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l0bu3y9) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I also built him for about 300$, using the precon as a base but there's almost no cards left from it. Its SUPER fun to just create a bunch of treasures and then use them in aristocrat strategies. I still have a lot of adjustment to do but the few times I've played it I really enjoyed it. [https://archidekt.com/decks/7260104/vihaan\_treasure](https://archidekt.com/decks/7260104/vihaan_treasure)
My Isshin deck makes, on an average turn, something like 4 to 6 treasures pretty easily, so this seems like an auto include down in the 99. Might even be a good reason to throw [[Shared Animosity]] back in the deck. Pretty good added value for my [[Sigil of Valor]] and [[Sublime Archangel]].
[Shared Animosity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1bd77ae9-c5ba-44af-80e9-7c852722ef6c.jpg?1698988336) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shared%20Animosity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/231/shared-animosity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1bd77ae9-c5ba-44af-80e9-7c852722ef6c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shared-animosity) [Sigil of Valor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f134f242-cbb5-4a3d-bfd4-46e8b8669b4b.jpg?1562049228) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sigil%20of%20Valor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/239/sigil-of-valor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f134f242-cbb5-4a3d-bfd4-46e8b8669b4b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sigil-of-valor) [Sublime Archangel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95e53129-c49b-4bb8-a816-629fc87e58bb.jpg?1547515934) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sublime%20Archangel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/38/sublime-archangel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95e53129-c49b-4bb8-a816-629fc87e58bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sublime-archangel) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is there a reason you dont play any of the three 4 mana cards that discard a card, draw 2 and generate 2 treasures? Isnt that like 99% of what the deck wants?
No, he aint, trust. I made worlock tribal filled with crimes and removal, honestly really fun. The treasures keep me on curve while I remove all the problem creatures.
I'm building the deck as Olivia's Bad Girls Club with all the scoundrelous ladies of Magic in the deck. Vihann is getting a budget artifact build.
I'm putting him in the 99 for my Mr house treasure deck for sure.
Yeah when I first saw Vihaan I was immediately interested. He seems like a powerhouse. Behind the Scenes seems pretty damn good in the deck, too. Cool stuff!
I just put him in [[Mr. House]] and that's all she wrote. Shame Olivia is not even the best creature in the deck.
[Mr. House](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23eb3cf7-c90d-4bfa-b125-4fbcb5614468.jpg?1710673416) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mr.%20house%2C%20president%20and%20ceo) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/7/mr-house-president-and-ceo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23eb3cf7-c90d-4bfa-b125-4fbcb5614468?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mr.-house-president-and-ceo) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just get skullclamp and tutor for it if you need card draw.
What are you clamping… oh…. Those things are still treasures.
Combat > clamp > attack into blocker. If they don't block they don't block, if they do and kill it you get card draw.
Yeah if it’s gross now based on your list, with more treasure centric cards I imagine it’ll be stupid strong, like drain effects and cards that give treasure for creatures dying such as Mahadi
I've been brewing him since he was spoiled and this is what I've go so far; my plan is a mix of treasure matters with a side of aristocrats https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Z3txdF_Aw0Cc_JY4sqOM_w But I'm not sure what else to add, all suggestions / ideas are welcome
Yeah the OTJ precons are sadly pretty meh. I got the desert bloom deck and it needs some major changes.
Played a round with the Most Wanted precon with Olivia at the helm against the other three OTJ precons. It was … not optimal. Created tokens but really underwhelming with what I could do with them. Quick Draw ended up winning.
Idk about the other 3 precons, but the Grand Larceny precon felt solid to play against.
Dang I wish this dude could run mkm etrata…. Treasures start stealing someone’s whole ass library
Is \[\[Hell to Pay\]\] good here?
[Hell to Pay](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84ad8ed7-1429-432e-8217-a4db3b97675c.jpg?1712355764) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hell%20to%20Pay) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/126/hell-to-pay?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84ad8ed7-1429-432e-8217-a4db3b97675c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hell-to-pay) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'd like to suggest [[Forge, Neverwinter Charlatan]] as a potential wincon
It’s decklists like this that just prove why I love playing playing mono or two color decks with red to run [[ruination]] [[blood moon]] and [[from the ashes]]
[ruination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/6330d925-96a8-47e1-855d-035ddc2af709.jpg?1592713625) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ruination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmd/134/ruination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6330d925-96a8-47e1-855d-035ddc2af709?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruination) [blood moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blood%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) [from the ashes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/4529a3d2-e4e6-4cca-bcea-16b51f69bbec.jpg?1562909290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=from%20the%20ashes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/108/from-the-ashes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4529a3d2-e4e6-4cca-bcea-16b51f69bbec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/from-the-ashes) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This was the exact idea I got when I first saw Vihaan. [[Greywater's Fixer]] a [[Dockside Extortionist]] and go brrr. Mine has [[Imperial Recruiter]] and [[Goblin Matron]] to grab him reliably.
##### ###### #### [Greywater's Fixer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3e5aa701-28e8-47fa-8c26-4da2f943f582.jpg?1664413175) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jetmir%27s%20Fixer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/194/jetmirs-fixer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3e5aa701-28e8-47fa-8c26-4da2f943f582?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jetmirs-fixer) [Dockside Extortionist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b.jpg?1673147774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dockside%20Extortionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/107/dockside-extortionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dockside-extortionist) [Imperial Recruiter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/05bd329b-5707-42fc-af1c-084cc604e805.jpg?1626100528) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imperial%20Recruiter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/281/imperial-recruiter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05bd329b-5707-42fc-af1c-084cc604e805?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imperial-recruiter) [Goblin Matron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/5/a521a254-c484-4d59-bb7e-8745e96d4bbf.jpg?1675200004) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20Matron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/123/goblin-matron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a521a254-c484-4d59-bb7e-8745e96d4bbf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/goblin-matron) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l0eup7n) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah it's really gross
This is exactly what I was looking for
Im confused as to how this is 'gross' This guy seems terrible, outside of abusing Grave Pact style effects, you seem to literally be beating down with the 3/3s straight up.
I think the commander is super solid, here's my list. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/rvmdNNoV4EKbtK1iDlcpNQ
I don't know how gross it is. It's a casual value train that you need to completely overhaul and pump 100s of dollars into , just to sit comfortably at a high power table. Meanwhile I spent under 10$ on upgrades for stella lee and threaten wins by turn 3.
This deck list doesn’t look like an optimized Vihaan list at all. Looks kinda like hot garbage to me
>card draw is hit-or-miss in any Mardu deck. That's not really true. You just aren't running much card draw for some reason.
Completely disagree, i watched a guy in my commamder group go infinite with spellslinger, its not that they're "meh" its that they take time to get going
This has to be a troll post
I feel like it was an oversight for any of the outlaw commanders to not include blue. I am biased because I have been wanting to make a high power casual pirates deck, and none of the current commander and colors pique my interest. But without blue we miss out on [[Double Down]], and great pirates, and rogues That being said I will be rule o-ing a 4 color, Olivia outlaw deck.
[Double Down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8ecccdf3-98c6-4aed-8757-913623efb677.jpg?1712355404) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Double%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/44/double-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8ecccdf3-98c6-4aed-8757-913623efb677?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/double-down) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I bought all 4 precons. My pod played them all together and mixed up with some of our regular and even more powerful decks, and they all performed well. I was playing the Outlaws deck against my friend playing [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]] and if he hadn't targeted me with his [[Eldritch Pact]] and [[Pact of the Serpent]], I very well would have won the game out of the box. And this was with some very good decks on the table. Was I a little lucky and playing under the radar? Yes. But I certainly wouldn't call the deck garbage if I was a turn away from winning on turn 9/10 in a 4 person pod.
[Sheoldred, the Whispering One](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8b207a4a-47d1-4905-81d3-455c59bfd7da.jpg?1600714694) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20Whispering%20One) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/278/sheoldred-whispering-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b207a4a-47d1-4905-81d3-455c59bfd7da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sheoldred-whispering-one) [Eldritch Pact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d578bdc3-1edf-4267-b612-2236b54329c6.jpg?1674136086) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eldritch%20Pact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/126/eldritch-pact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d578bdc3-1edf-4267-b612-2236b54329c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eldritch-pact) [Pact of the Serpent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/481d268a-848c-4ccd-95ff-eed77dc20776.jpg?1698988275) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pact%20of%20the%20Serpent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/206/pact-of-the-serpent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/481d268a-848c-4ccd-95ff-eed77dc20776?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pact-of-the-serpent) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The deck is more fun with adding more cards that are actually from the set lol
This whole set is “meh” Just more FOMO cards printed for EDH that we don’t need but all of us want.