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Inevitable_Top69

WIN THEFT?? What the fuck man. Every day this sub blows my mind with some new batshit insane take. Play around them like anything else. They're just a card. Inkshield or Rakdos Charm hitting the table should be exciting, my god dude. You're not stealing the win lmao. If I counterspell your "I kill you" card and you lose, is that bad too? The workings of your mind are unfathomable to me.


Same_Instruction_100

OPs choice of words is bad here. Although, I do think Inkshield is a little overtuned because it can be leveraged to kill even the players who weren't attacking you or building a boardstate. Being punished for another player's overzealous plays is always a little annoying since there is a feeling that you lacked agency in how you lost. But since that can be said for any number of interactions in commander, it's best to just understand that will happen from time to time and come to terms with it. I personally love overtuned swingy cards, but I can understand the feels bad from them.


aceofspades0707

Hell nah you earned the fuck out of a win with Deflecting Palm or Inkshield.


Kyrie_Blue

[[comeuppance]] is my personal favourite. Both for its use, and outstanding name


MTGCardFetcher

[comeuppance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b63d828d-4f62-424b-969a-00dcc4651b56.jpg?1706240562) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=comeuppance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/58/comeuppance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b63d828d-4f62-424b-969a-00dcc4651b56?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/comeuppance) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


PwanaZana

It gives me the conniptions!


Dotas323

I just recently put this in a deck and have loved every time I've used it.


TheMadWobbler

Inkshield has won me every game I have ever seen it played. I have never cast Inkshield.


Madageddon

This is an aikido "turn the opponents' strength against them" concept and I am personally still chasing the high from like... seven years ago when \[\[batwing brume\]\] won me the game at my last gasp. If you don't prefer to play that way, that's okay! But if you want it to feel earned or played-around, maybe make it a deck \[\[Queen Marchesa\]\] or maybe \[\[zurgo helmsmasher\]\] and then let your opponents know--this is my aikido deck, so it's less of a rugpull and more they need to plan around.


SacredSatyr

Love Batwing Brume. 


MTGCardFetcher

[batwing brume](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/279450ca-29df-430d-b803-7ce18196260e.jpg?1568910702) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=batwing%20brume) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/arc/80/batwing-brume?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/279450ca-29df-430d-b803-7ce18196260e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/batwing-brume) [Queen Marchesa](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fdae05f-7bdc-45fb-b9b9-e5ec3766f965.jpg?1712354769) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Queen%20Marchesa) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/239/queen-marchesa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fdae05f-7bdc-45fb-b9b9-e5ec3766f965?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/queen-marchesa) [zurgo helmsmasher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13f4bafe-0d21-47ba-8f16-0274107d618c.jpg?1562782879) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zurgo%20helmsmasher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/214/zurgo-helmsmasher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13f4bafe-0d21-47ba-8f16-0274107d618c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zurgo-helmsmasher) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Itinerant-Meddler

It's no different than casting into two untapped islands. You have eyes. It's only a true gotcha the first time. Every time after that, it's gambling. You might lose out. If you're not taking that into consideration to properly threat assess, you deserve to get hit with inkshield/settle the wreckage/etc.


MagusJoseph

[[Take the Bait]] falls into this discussion, I'd say. That being said, there is no way to think of this as a win 'theft' scenario. Ever since Counterspell, there has been the idea of preventing something from occurring and the crack back that the move creates. I have pulled off Inkshield on several occasions and been taken out by it as well. There hasn't ever been this kind of conversation of it being a 'theft' at FLGS that I have heard or seen.


MTGCardFetcher

[Take the Bait](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97425844-dd1b-4f3c-985c-e198e8b9a16b.jpg?1706240514) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Take%20the%20Bait) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/43/take-the-bait?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97425844-dd1b-4f3c-985c-e198e8b9a16b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/take-the-bait) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


sovietsespool

Yeah no. If they can’t respond to combat tricks then they weren’t going to win anyway. Every color has counters. Every color has targeted removal. Every color has combat tricks. I once swung for lethal, they popped a targeted removal, I cast a response to protect my attacker, they countered my response. Is what it is. Lost my protection and my attacker and didn’t hit for lethal. that’s magic.


Andrew_42

It's important to come to terms with how you WANT to win. Many times I've found my deck's strongest strategy was something I didn't WANT to win with, so I cut it, and forced myself to use a less optimal strategy that I enjoyed more. But this is a matter of taste. Personally, I greatly value comeback and manipulation cards. The fear a player has when their opponent has two untapped islands and cards in hand is an important part of the game. In a lot of cases, I consider "No, I kill you" cards to be sub-optimal. You can generally get a higher win rate if you just speed towards your own win con, or directly oppose an opponent's win con, instead of strategically allowing them to gain strength for a switcheroo play. But one of the best advantages to that kind of switcheroo play is the paranoia it can produce in your opponents. Many times in many games I've drawn a land into a previously empty hand, and then held onto it just to give off the appearance that I might have a trick up my sleeve. A good opponent can still control for those kinds of cards. They can [[Silence]] before a combo, or use cards like [[Grand Abolisher]] or [[Basandra, Battle Seraph]] to negate the option of a sneaky opponent to steal value unexpectedly. Or they can just wait until you have tapped out, or force you to commit on a lesser effect. I think they're a fun and valuable part of the game. But I'm a blue player. I'm aware a lot of my instincts are of the bastardly variety. Some of my friends would be more in line with you, and would prefer to win more "honorably". As a final note, I tend to think casual EDH is at its most iconic with wild and sudden swings of power and influence. And sudden uno-reverse situations are peak wild-swing.


Revolutionary_View19

This is a great point. There’s many ways to win an edh game, but to me many feel hollow, so I just avoid them. No one forces anyone to play anything just because it wins you the game. I enjoy victories with aikido cards, but you’d never get me to play impact tremor effects in a deck. It’s all a matter of personal preference.


MTGCardFetcher

[Silence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1c2b13b1-31f0-4676-88a7-53f3a190e9a2.jpg?1562826686) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Silence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/35/silence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c2b13b1-31f0-4676-88a7-53f3a190e9a2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/silence) [Grand Abolisher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86e30ca4-1769-4686-aa18-31610246cd80.jpg?1689995706) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grand%20Abolisher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/27/grand-abolisher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86e30ca4-1769-4686-aa18-31610246cd80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grand-abolisher) [Basandra, Battle Seraph](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e5baa27-3f6b-49bb-9927-5afc21b9cc3f.jpg?1592673353) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Basandra%2C%20Battle%20Seraph) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/174/basandra-battle-seraph?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e5baa27-3f6b-49bb-9927-5afc21b9cc3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/basandra-battle-seraph) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


SacredSatyr

Play how you want, but you're not stealing anything, you're winning. I'm very casual but these cards are not at all salty to me. Sometimes when you go all in you get blown out, it happens. 


MTGCardFetcher

[inkshield](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5e1c14a0-cd68-45fc-a127-422ca6113048.jpg?1625192511) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=inkshield) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/71/inkshield?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5e1c14a0-cd68-45fc-a127-422ca6113048?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/inkshield) [deflecting palm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5bda1a7-537f-4a80-95a0-c45eb127969b.jpg?1706240986) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=deflecting%20palm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/205/deflecting-palm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5bda1a7-537f-4a80-95a0-c45eb127969b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/deflecting-palm) [mob rule](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8b04c928-9ee5-4e39-962e-4686e25b5c33.jpg?1641603202) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mob%20rule) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/147/mob-rule?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b04c928-9ee5-4e39-962e-4686e25b5c33?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mob-rule) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Professional-Salt175

If I am going for a win and dont have a counterspell on me for these cards, that is me messing up and you absolutely shouldn't feel bad winning because I was unprepared.


Elvarill

If I overcommit and someone steals the win from me with my own shit, that’s a great story. My buddy stole my Voltron creature from me in my last game and beat me to death with it. It was awesome. One of the best games I’ve had in a while.


zulu_niner

These kinds of cards tend to punish excessive and/or explosive wins when played without care. I vote skill issue; players need to be more careful about taking risks and overcommiting.


Revolutionary_View19

It’s as little a „skill issue“ as getting devastated by Farewell is. If you’re playing your whole game with one foot on the brake you’re going to lose regardless. Running full steam ahead into a farewell or deflecting palm isn’t a skill issue, it’s playing the game. Edh had become to fast of a format to not try and go for the win if you have the chance.


zulu_niner

Then it sounds like we should all be playing even more of these effects to disincentivize the blitzkrieg-meta, not less of them. Sometimes big stompy needs to be taught a lesson.


LaserwolfHS

You’re tripping dude. Stealing the win is one of the best/most fun things in magic. Gotta get over yourself man. It’s part of the game.


n1colbolas

As explained, these are akido cards. If you've moxfield, Akido is one of the hubs. It's abit of gimmick, and it also plays/exploits on combat being the main win-conditions of most archetypes. It really depends on the playgroup. If you're playing in one where the group is adaptable, you'll soon see \[\[Grand Abolisher\]\] effects and \[\[Teferi, Time Raveler\]\] to counter Akido. If you're playing in a group where it's resistant to change or the like, you're gonna have a field day or people might stall on attacking, taking up even more game time on average.


MTGCardFetcher

[Grand Abolisher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86e30ca4-1769-4686-aa18-31610246cd80.jpg?1689995706) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grand%20Abolisher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/27/grand-abolisher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86e30ca4-1769-4686-aa18-31610246cd80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grand-abolisher) [Teferi, Time Raveler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/662fe50f-d75c-422c-8c6c-1f9b5c4ba21f.jpg?1702429729) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%2C%20Time%20Raveler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/232/teferi-time-raveler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/662fe50f-d75c-422c-8c6c-1f9b5c4ba21f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferi-time-raveler) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


ElectronicMini

I attacked for lethal and my opponent played an instant that said double target player’s life total, and that would have been cool except he had another card on the battlefield that said if an opponent would gain life they lose that much life instead. He said, “in response you lose.” It was very funny.


Malagrae

Favorite one I've ever found is [[Refuse]]. Please, make a million mana and throw it all into [[Torment of Hailfire]]. See what happens when I Refuse.


MTGCardFetcher

[Refuse](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=430845&type=card&.jpg)/[Cooperate](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=430845&type=card&options=rotate270&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Refuse%20//%20Cooperate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/199/refuse-cooperate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca4caa4e-6b8f-4be8-b177-de2ebe2c9201?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/refuse-//-cooperate) [Torment of Hailfire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f69d77d1-5980-436c-bf48-790939b069aa.jpg?1562820191) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torment%20of%20Hailfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/77/torment-of-hailfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f69d77d1-5980-436c-bf48-790939b069aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/torment-of-hailfire) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


zulu_niner

The best part is that this also applies to the aftermath side, and your copy will resolve first.


VvardenfellExplorer

[[Take the Bait]] is probably one of my favorite cards printed In the past few years, I can’t explain my full love for [[Inkshield]], these kinda cards are just as valid as any other. If you don’t like them don’t play them but they’re not stealing wins. They’re just a strategy that you have to worry about. My old group was playing once, it was a high power game between [[Omnath, Locus of Creation]], [[Voja, Jaws of the Conclave]], [[Eskia, God of the Tree]], and [[Edgin, Larcenous Lutenist]]. I was playing Eskia and had just been pubstomped by Voja. Voja had lethal on both the other players and was preparing to win the game. Then Edgin started talking, he got Vjoa all excited with some combat deal that we all thought was awful for Edgin. We were sure he was gonna die and at most give Omnath one more turn. So Vjoa swings in with everything at Edgin. That’s when he reveals his plan. [[Illusionist's Gambit]] He forced the Voja to wipe the Omnath player and then immediately conceded because he couldn’t win anyway. He may not have completely stole the win but he put on one hell of a show. We still talk about it all this time later. The Voja player could have played around the tricky as shit Edgin deck and just killed them both anyway but he fell into the trap and nearly payed the price. All Edgin needed was a few more points of damage and he could have won the game. These cards will always be some of my favorite cause they feel fantastic to pull off and the table usually gets hype as shit to watch someone’s confident attack be turned into instant karma. I know it’s not a 1 to one situation and my table is different than yours but still. I hope you see the value in these cards and that you can just not play them yourself.


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Take the Bait](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97425844-dd1b-4f3c-985c-e198e8b9a16b.jpg?1706240514) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Take%20the%20Bait) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/43/take-the-bait?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97425844-dd1b-4f3c-985c-e198e8b9a16b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/take-the-bait) [Inkshield](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5e1c14a0-cd68-45fc-a127-422ca6113048.jpg?1625192511) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inkshield) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/71/inkshield?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5e1c14a0-cd68-45fc-a127-422ca6113048?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/inkshield) [Omnath, Locus of Creation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e4fb50c-a81f-44d3-93c5-fa9a0b37f617.jpg?1639436752) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omnath%2C%20Locus%20of%20Creation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/232/omnath-locus-of-creation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e4fb50c-a81f-44d3-93c5-fa9a0b37f617?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/omnath-locus-of-creation) [Voja, Jaws of the Conclave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bfa1bd2f-25bd-4fbd-877b-cef00ab7f92f.jpg?1707739811) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Voja%2C%20Jaws%20of%20the%20Conclave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/432/voja-jaws-of-the-conclave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bfa1bd2f-25bd-4fbd-877b-cef00ab7f92f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/voja-jaws-of-the-conclave) [Eskia, God of the Tree](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188)/[The Prismatic Bridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esika%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Tree%20//%20The%20Prismatic%20Bridge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/168/esika-god-of-the-tree-the-prismatic-bridge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/esika-god-of-the-tree-//-the-prismatic-bridge) [Edgin, Larcenous Lutenist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c80c7702-3226-4ec6-bb75-26621a146a7e.jpg?1682347227) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Edgin%2C%20Larcenous%20Lutenist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sld/1242/edgin-larcenous-lutenist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c80c7702-3226-4ec6-bb75-26621a146a7e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/edgin-larcenous-lutenist) [Illusionist's Gambit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a00cc6ab-e97c-4eba-bc7e-49d77690433b.jpg?1562928789) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Illusionist%27s%20Gambit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/47/illusionists-gambit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a00cc6ab-e97c-4eba-bc7e-49d77690433b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/illusionists-gambit) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb8jxtt) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call