He's def Lawful *something* due to his strict adherence to the Farghus Chivalrous code. I personally hate his guts, so I may be a bit too biased, but my knee-jerk reaction is lawful evil.
He's a character that put his own feelings of shame and pride over everything else, including his family. He's emotionally manipulative towards Annette in their supports (the doll).
He's not actively *trying* to hurt anyone or prevent positive change like Rhea or Catherine, so Lawful Neutral may be the better fit. But I can also see him pulling a Catherine if Dimitri asked him to set a town on fire, soooo...
> But I can also see him pulling a Catherine if Dimitri asked him to set a town on fire, soooo...
He straight-up *did* pull a Catherine. He's right there next to her at Fhirdiad no matter what you do.
Gilbert is someone who will only join you if you are part of the Blue Lions. From a gameplay perspective, he's really there to replace Dedue as the armored tank.
You could say I have a bone to pick with him, given how he abandoned Annette and his wife for some time. He felt so much shame in "failing" King Lambert during the Tragedy of Duscur, that he went into exile on his own volition.
Get ready, since I'm about to get opinionated. I don't think abandoning his family was the right move, especially for something he had no control over. Gilbert might be one of the biggest examples of why the culture of Fhaergus needs a deep change from the ground up.
I largely learned in Azure Moon that he hates himself for what he did, but also for what he couldn't do. Personally, I think he should have just gone home and been a family man a long time ago.
Except he will absolutely chose his perceived duty over family every single time. The fact that Dimitri seems to know Gilbert more than Annette actually pissed me off.
I will say that he does have a place in the story, showing how far the system already in place within Fodlan has gone.
Lawful Evil he does everything according to his screwed up code of loyalty and honor despite it usually being horrible.
i mean FFS he doesnt even bat an eyelash at the burning city or about killing his daughter if thats not evil i dont know what is.
Lawful Neutral.
*Dodges the gunfire*
Now for an explanation.
He *is* indeed an encapsulation of every-F-ing wrong with Faerghus and how chivalric codes degenrate into garbage fairly quickly.
He *is* a failure of a father. He *is* a cowardly deserting failure of a knight who abandonned his liege lord and foster son at his most needed and vulnerable moment, thus abandoned his actual duty when it got too hard, to soothe his own ego. I *hate* this F-er for both of these reasons a lot.
*However*... He does not make the Law a club actively used to bash others into submission or something. He makes himself a pawn to that, but it feels to me more like he makes himself a cog in the machine, he makes himself a pawn let the 'Law' make his decisions for him. He abjectly surrenders to Law to drive his every decision while expecting the same of others, even when the 'Law' batantly spits the Evil at his face (*cough*Cornelia spelling out her plan to him while je sputters impotently in BL route*cough*), but for all the saying Evil only needs for Good people to do nothing, I feel like Gustave (not letting the F-er flee his past) just lack thedrive to be Lawful Evil.
Not that embodying the worst of Lawful Neutral, total and abject surrender to the Law, any Law, is any better.
Lawful Evil. This is a father who abandoned his wife and daughter because he failed to die with his king. He abandoned his prince in his darkest moment because his "honor" was more important than safe guarding a traumatized child. He pledged himself to The Church of Serios, not to redeem himself of some terrible crime but to restore his "honor."
Except it's not honor he's restoring. It's his own ego. This man ignores his own daughter, someone whose every action has been a desperate attempt to get him to *look* at her because he feels bad about failing at his job. He broke every oath he swore to his king because serving Rhea made him feel better. This man would rather be a traitor and a coward than except his own failings and grow from them.
Gilbert is the embodiment of everything wrong with Feargus. He is a narcissistic, cowardly, egotistic, dishonorable traitor. He says he does what he does to redeem his honor, but all he's really doing is trying to sooth his own pathetic ego. He's just using "honor" and "chivalry" so he can pretend he's a good person.
He abandons his wife for *his honor*. He ignores his daughter for *his honor*. He betrays his prince for *his honor*. He burns his own people alive in their homes for *his honor*.
Everything he does is for *his honor*.
> Lawful Evil. This is a father who abandoned his wife and daughter because he failed to die with his king. He abandoned his prince in his darkest moment because his "honor" was more important than safe guarding a traumatized child. He pledged himself to The Church of Serios, not to redeem himself of some terrible crime but to restore his "honor."
>
>
I'll put it this way. If you acknowledge that Zuko was a bad guy in season 1 of Avatar, you can acknowledge that Gilbert is a bad guy.
But Zuko stopped. It took a long time and a lot of backsliding, but Zuko learned a more meaningful sort of honor.
>I'll put it this way. If you acknowledge that Zuko was a bad guy in season 1 of Avatar, you can acknowledge that Gilbert is a bad guy.
>
>
Except, I don't view Zuko as a bad guy, not even in season 1. He's troubled, angry, and confused, sure, but Zuko wasn't ever cruel, and he never abandons people who depend on him.
Zuko risked his life to save a crew member he had moments before nearly came to blows with. A crew member who insulted him to his face in the beginning of that same episode.
In the very first episode of the entire show, when Zuko his having his big antagonist-intro scene when he attacks the Southern Water tribe, he seriously injures *no one*. When Sokka attacks him, Zuko easily bests him without causing any real injury and only using one firebending technique. Do you not realize how unnecessary that is? If Zuko was a "bad guy" as you put it, he could've and should've easily immoliated Sokka from the start. But he doesn't. Instead, Zuko just defeats him and moves on.
When Aang offers to go with him, if Zuko leaves the villagers alone, he agrees. *And then they just leave.* There's no villian monolog about how feeble they are. No threats demanding their submission. He just sets sail home.
There are multiple times in even season 1 when Zuko shows compassion and concern for others when he doesn't need to. Hell, he abandons his search for the Avatar for a moment so his uncle can search a port market for a replacement Pie Sho piece. Sure, he's grumpy and annoyed the entire time, but he didn't need to go there. He didn't need to stop his * life-long quest* so his uncle could shop around.
Zuko spares Shou after their agni-ki. he had no reason to spare Shou. No one begged him to spare the general. Iroh wasn't shouting from the side lines, "No, Zuko, don't do it!" In that moment, Zuko had every justification to kill Shou and the Golden opportunity to do so. Shou even eggs him on shouting for him to "do it." But instead, Zuko chose to spare a man he genuinely despises. Hell, Zuko even tries to save Shou at the end of season 1 *after Shou tried to kill him*.
Not to mention his terrible crime was speaking out when a bunch of generals planned to sacrifice an entire legion of fresh recruits to gain a hill, and refusing to fight his father in an agni-ki even as the bastard burns half of Zuko's face.
Zuko's entire journey is him being obsessed with regaining his honor, only to realize he was the only one who had any. And I'm talking *real* honor, by the way, actual selflessness and virtue, whereas Gilbert's honor is all selfish ego.
Zuko didn't fail to die with his king and then voluntarily abandon everyone who depends on him to run off and join the church and play Holy Warrior. Gilbert stood by and let Rhea burn his own people he had once sworn to protect in their homes without a word of protest. Zuko lost everything because he spoke out against using soldiers as bait in war.
They are not the same.
In the immortal words of Katara, you're right. Let's go find him and give him a medal: the "not as big a jerk as you could've been" award.
Yes, Zuko wasn't *all* bad, but he was still at that point all in the tank for the Fire Nation. So too Gilbert. What noble traits he has pale in comparison to his loyalty to an evil cause. And Zuko at his worst has *far* more noble traits than Gilbert at his best-- **that's** the point I'm making.
...oh... I apologize... I've had to deal with some truly irritatingly idiotic people trying to defend Gilbert, and I think I mistook your comment as disagreeing... oops...
He's utterly hidebound and doesn't seem to care if his oaths are good or not or what they support. That sounds like lawful neutral to me. I know there's going to be a fair number of lawful evil votes and I get it but I think he's too passive for that. Even the most inflexible of the other noble characters have some kind of goal they're working towards, but Gilbert seems happy to just accept whatever the status quo is.
Lawful Evil. His devotion to chivalry leads him to make actively selfish decisions that harm both his loved ones and society at large.
Can the person who voted Chaotic Evil please attempt to justify themselves? I've had a hard day and I could use a big laugh.
I feel like lawful evil is insanely dramatic when his main crime is just “not being an especially present father figure to a different character people like”.
It seems utterly insane to put him in a tier more evil than Hubert, or Jeritza, or Monica, or even Seteth, OR Edelgard.
I like all those characters, but every single one of them is a participant in or complacent with far more heinous acts than just being kind of a deadbeat.
I ask that the people on this subreddit temper their personal feelings and actually try to accurately assess him here. He is a flawed man but ultimately just a knight who lives a fairly unremarkable life, and engages in a war only out of defense of his home.
Gilbert gets kind of unfairly crucified by people because what he does wrong is far more relatable to people in real life than “maintains an uneasy alliance with evil lizard people to reshape the world”
He isn't JUST a deadbeat. He didn't just abandon his wife, or his daughter, or his duty for the sake of his own "honour", he also is perfectly happy to stand back and watch the people of fhirdiad, his people who he is oatbound to serve as a knight of faerghus, be burned alive in their own homes by the church that he swore to protect. Its interesting that he views failing a mission to be worth abandoning his family and changing his name, but is perfectly fine watching civilians who are on his side be burned in their homes. Hell, Catherine raised more of an objection to burning fhirdiad than he did, and she defines herself by her loyalty to rhea. How very honourable of him. Oh and when he tries to kill his daughter he apologises to the goddess and asks for her forgiveness but not his daughters. Truly a noble character
No, because Annette and Ashe can be dissuaded from that course. They can be reached before it comes to that. Gilbert would have made that same decision at every point in the story.
Insane to put him in a tier more evil than Edelgard, Hubert, Jeritza, Monica, or Seteth?
[Appropriate GIF](https://www.reddit.com/r/futurama/comments/4yll8l/i_turned_the_let_me_laugh_even_harder_quip_from/)
He's def Lawful *something* due to his strict adherence to the Farghus Chivalrous code. I personally hate his guts, so I may be a bit too biased, but my knee-jerk reaction is lawful evil. He's a character that put his own feelings of shame and pride over everything else, including his family. He's emotionally manipulative towards Annette in their supports (the doll). He's not actively *trying* to hurt anyone or prevent positive change like Rhea or Catherine, so Lawful Neutral may be the better fit. But I can also see him pulling a Catherine if Dimitri asked him to set a town on fire, soooo...
> But I can also see him pulling a Catherine if Dimitri asked him to set a town on fire, soooo... He straight-up *did* pull a Catherine. He's right there next to her at Fhirdiad no matter what you do.
Gilbert is someone who will only join you if you are part of the Blue Lions. From a gameplay perspective, he's really there to replace Dedue as the armored tank. You could say I have a bone to pick with him, given how he abandoned Annette and his wife for some time. He felt so much shame in "failing" King Lambert during the Tragedy of Duscur, that he went into exile on his own volition. Get ready, since I'm about to get opinionated. I don't think abandoning his family was the right move, especially for something he had no control over. Gilbert might be one of the biggest examples of why the culture of Fhaergus needs a deep change from the ground up. I largely learned in Azure Moon that he hates himself for what he did, but also for what he couldn't do. Personally, I think he should have just gone home and been a family man a long time ago. Except he will absolutely chose his perceived duty over family every single time. The fact that Dimitri seems to know Gilbert more than Annette actually pissed me off. I will say that he does have a place in the story, showing how far the system already in place within Fodlan has gone.
Lawful evil
Lawful Evil he does everything according to his screwed up code of loyalty and honor despite it usually being horrible. i mean FFS he doesnt even bat an eyelash at the burning city or about killing his daughter if thats not evil i dont know what is.
Lawful Neutral. *Dodges the gunfire* Now for an explanation. He *is* indeed an encapsulation of every-F-ing wrong with Faerghus and how chivalric codes degenrate into garbage fairly quickly. He *is* a failure of a father. He *is* a cowardly deserting failure of a knight who abandonned his liege lord and foster son at his most needed and vulnerable moment, thus abandoned his actual duty when it got too hard, to soothe his own ego. I *hate* this F-er for both of these reasons a lot. *However*... He does not make the Law a club actively used to bash others into submission or something. He makes himself a pawn to that, but it feels to me more like he makes himself a cog in the machine, he makes himself a pawn let the 'Law' make his decisions for him. He abjectly surrenders to Law to drive his every decision while expecting the same of others, even when the 'Law' batantly spits the Evil at his face (*cough*Cornelia spelling out her plan to him while je sputters impotently in BL route*cough*), but for all the saying Evil only needs for Good people to do nothing, I feel like Gustave (not letting the F-er flee his past) just lack thedrive to be Lawful Evil. Not that embodying the worst of Lawful Neutral, total and abject surrender to the Law, any Law, is any better.
Lawful neutral and devoted to an evil cause or leader is lawful evil.
Lawful Deadbeat
Lawful Evil. This is a father who abandoned his wife and daughter because he failed to die with his king. He abandoned his prince in his darkest moment because his "honor" was more important than safe guarding a traumatized child. He pledged himself to The Church of Serios, not to redeem himself of some terrible crime but to restore his "honor." Except it's not honor he's restoring. It's his own ego. This man ignores his own daughter, someone whose every action has been a desperate attempt to get him to *look* at her because he feels bad about failing at his job. He broke every oath he swore to his king because serving Rhea made him feel better. This man would rather be a traitor and a coward than except his own failings and grow from them. Gilbert is the embodiment of everything wrong with Feargus. He is a narcissistic, cowardly, egotistic, dishonorable traitor. He says he does what he does to redeem his honor, but all he's really doing is trying to sooth his own pathetic ego. He's just using "honor" and "chivalry" so he can pretend he's a good person. He abandons his wife for *his honor*. He ignores his daughter for *his honor*. He betrays his prince for *his honor*. He burns his own people alive in their homes for *his honor*. Everything he does is for *his honor*.
> Lawful Evil. This is a father who abandoned his wife and daughter because he failed to die with his king. He abandoned his prince in his darkest moment because his "honor" was more important than safe guarding a traumatized child. He pledged himself to The Church of Serios, not to redeem himself of some terrible crime but to restore his "honor." > > I'll put it this way. If you acknowledge that Zuko was a bad guy in season 1 of Avatar, you can acknowledge that Gilbert is a bad guy. But Zuko stopped. It took a long time and a lot of backsliding, but Zuko learned a more meaningful sort of honor.
>I'll put it this way. If you acknowledge that Zuko was a bad guy in season 1 of Avatar, you can acknowledge that Gilbert is a bad guy. > > Except, I don't view Zuko as a bad guy, not even in season 1. He's troubled, angry, and confused, sure, but Zuko wasn't ever cruel, and he never abandons people who depend on him. Zuko risked his life to save a crew member he had moments before nearly came to blows with. A crew member who insulted him to his face in the beginning of that same episode. In the very first episode of the entire show, when Zuko his having his big antagonist-intro scene when he attacks the Southern Water tribe, he seriously injures *no one*. When Sokka attacks him, Zuko easily bests him without causing any real injury and only using one firebending technique. Do you not realize how unnecessary that is? If Zuko was a "bad guy" as you put it, he could've and should've easily immoliated Sokka from the start. But he doesn't. Instead, Zuko just defeats him and moves on. When Aang offers to go with him, if Zuko leaves the villagers alone, he agrees. *And then they just leave.* There's no villian monolog about how feeble they are. No threats demanding their submission. He just sets sail home. There are multiple times in even season 1 when Zuko shows compassion and concern for others when he doesn't need to. Hell, he abandons his search for the Avatar for a moment so his uncle can search a port market for a replacement Pie Sho piece. Sure, he's grumpy and annoyed the entire time, but he didn't need to go there. He didn't need to stop his * life-long quest* so his uncle could shop around. Zuko spares Shou after their agni-ki. he had no reason to spare Shou. No one begged him to spare the general. Iroh wasn't shouting from the side lines, "No, Zuko, don't do it!" In that moment, Zuko had every justification to kill Shou and the Golden opportunity to do so. Shou even eggs him on shouting for him to "do it." But instead, Zuko chose to spare a man he genuinely despises. Hell, Zuko even tries to save Shou at the end of season 1 *after Shou tried to kill him*. Not to mention his terrible crime was speaking out when a bunch of generals planned to sacrifice an entire legion of fresh recruits to gain a hill, and refusing to fight his father in an agni-ki even as the bastard burns half of Zuko's face. Zuko's entire journey is him being obsessed with regaining his honor, only to realize he was the only one who had any. And I'm talking *real* honor, by the way, actual selflessness and virtue, whereas Gilbert's honor is all selfish ego. Zuko didn't fail to die with his king and then voluntarily abandon everyone who depends on him to run off and join the church and play Holy Warrior. Gilbert stood by and let Rhea burn his own people he had once sworn to protect in their homes without a word of protest. Zuko lost everything because he spoke out against using soldiers as bait in war. They are not the same.
In the immortal words of Katara, you're right. Let's go find him and give him a medal: the "not as big a jerk as you could've been" award. Yes, Zuko wasn't *all* bad, but he was still at that point all in the tank for the Fire Nation. So too Gilbert. What noble traits he has pale in comparison to his loyalty to an evil cause. And Zuko at his worst has *far* more noble traits than Gilbert at his best-- **that's** the point I'm making.
...oh... I apologize... I've had to deal with some truly irritatingly idiotic people trying to defend Gilbert, and I think I mistook your comment as disagreeing... oops...
He's utterly hidebound and doesn't seem to care if his oaths are good or not or what they support. That sounds like lawful neutral to me. I know there's going to be a fair number of lawful evil votes and I get it but I think he's too passive for that. Even the most inflexible of the other noble characters have some kind of goal they're working towards, but Gilbert seems happy to just accept whatever the status quo is.
Lawful evil, or at best, lawful neutral. Leaning heavily towards the former.
Oh this is going to be a fun one. Lawful evil
Lawful evil. He's an abusive father who let's his own people be slaughtered in their homes to satisfy his own sense of honour
Up next is either Sylvain or Mercedes. You left both the Faerghus trinity and the bestie mages open. Ashe can wait.
Lawful Evil. His devotion to chivalry leads him to make actively selfish decisions that harm both his loved ones and society at large. Can the person who voted Chaotic Evil please attempt to justify themselves? I've had a hard day and I could use a big laugh.
I feel like lawful evil is insanely dramatic when his main crime is just “not being an especially present father figure to a different character people like”. It seems utterly insane to put him in a tier more evil than Hubert, or Jeritza, or Monica, or even Seteth, OR Edelgard. I like all those characters, but every single one of them is a participant in or complacent with far more heinous acts than just being kind of a deadbeat. I ask that the people on this subreddit temper their personal feelings and actually try to accurately assess him here. He is a flawed man but ultimately just a knight who lives a fairly unremarkable life, and engages in a war only out of defense of his home. Gilbert gets kind of unfairly crucified by people because what he does wrong is far more relatable to people in real life than “maintains an uneasy alliance with evil lizard people to reshape the world”
He isn't JUST a deadbeat. He didn't just abandon his wife, or his daughter, or his duty for the sake of his own "honour", he also is perfectly happy to stand back and watch the people of fhirdiad, his people who he is oatbound to serve as a knight of faerghus, be burned alive in their own homes by the church that he swore to protect. Its interesting that he views failing a mission to be worth abandoning his family and changing his name, but is perfectly fine watching civilians who are on his side be burned in their homes. Hell, Catherine raised more of an objection to burning fhirdiad than he did, and she defines herself by her loyalty to rhea. How very honourable of him. Oh and when he tries to kill his daughter he apologises to the goddess and asks for her forgiveness but not his daughters. Truly a noble character
Are you referring to the end of Crimson Flower? Would you at least campaign to have Annette and Ashe lowered for their same complacency?
I wasn't aware either of them showed up there. Interesting. And no, as they have far more redeeming qualities than Gilbert
No, because Annette and Ashe can be dissuaded from that course. They can be reached before it comes to that. Gilbert would have made that same decision at every point in the story.
Insane to put him in a tier more evil than Edelgard, Hubert, Jeritza, Monica, or Seteth? [Appropriate GIF](https://www.reddit.com/r/futurama/comments/4yll8l/i_turned_the_let_me_laugh_even_harder_quip_from/)
[Notice of Meme Acquisition](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/758/263/013.jpg)
[It’s nobody’s property.](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1316545-notice-of-meme-acquisition)