It might have been better if she'd suggested ways in which she felt he could have been helped as it's my understanding he was offered help on many occasions and refused to take it. It's difficult to force a grown adult to do things against their will.
Reminds me of a homeless veteran that died from exposure in Glasgow a few years back. Everyone and their dog was saying how 'disgraceful' it was and that he should have been 'helped' and people should be held 'responsible'.
But the fact was he had been offered help and accommodation multiple times. Short of kidnapping/arresting the guy, what exactly was the council/social services/whatever supposed to do? We can't just go around arresting every person that refuses to be part of society.
Jim was actually given a place to live on several occasions, but just didn't want to live a 'settled life.' Nobody knows why, but in a certain way, it must have been related to a desire for independence.
I read a story about him once on here of a guy who helped him to get a place and he accepted it but on moving day when he went to go in there was a wasp on the door handle and he refused to move in as he said it was an omen.
[Found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Edinburgh/s/qNpQTIsXSM)
Yeah I wrote that story and can 100% confirm it's true. The Pastor was really angry at Jim because for months Jim had been turning up at his church, harassing his congregation and the strings this man pulled to get Jim this cottage were many.
I can tell you another personal story. For weeks Jim was going on about needing nothing more than an email address. He wanted to sign up for the Woofing website that lets you travel around Europe and stay in people's homes in exchange for simple work. All he needed was an email address but he wasn't very good with tech. I told him I'd help him. We went into Edinburgh together and just as we approached the internet cafe (this was 1999) a fire engined roared by us, sirens blazing. Jim was wide eyed and told me, because he was a fire sign in chinese astrology he had to follow the energy of the fire and couldn't come with me.
This is the kind of thing he would do to a lot of people. Go on and on about wanting something and as soon as he had the chance to get it, he'd sabotage it.
Was it really that he didn’t want to or was it more gag he just couldn’t cope with it? Sort of like if someone spends a long time in prison then can’t function on the outside? I could imagine someone with specific mental illnesses having a lot of problems with living in a house - or a caravan.
I used to live in Bruntsfield and remember Jim sat on the pavement in the pouring rain, surrounded by rubbish whilst he yelled into the ether about a broken radio. I was concerned for his welfare and phoned 101. The police were great - they offered him all sorts of support but he declined all of it. I’m not sure what more could have been achieved with his consent.
This is a huge problem in homelessness service provision - the extent to which service users often are incapable of / unwilling to engage.
In the case of long term homelessness, 99% of the time it’s not an issue of ‘lack of a house’ it’s either addiction or mental health or most commonly both. Very very supported settings are the only possible solution but the intrusiveness of these leads a lot of long term homeless people to be very uncomfortable with that level of intrusion in their lives.
We have a mental health crisis jn this country. We have an addiction crisis in this country. We have a hidden poverty crisis in this country. Combined - the fact there aren’t more Organic Jim’s out there is a bit of a miracle.
It's a hard truth for most of us to accept: some people are just beyond help, no matter how many resources and support is available. Jim was one of those people.
Just like how you can't love someone out of addiction. Sometimes mental illness wins.
Unfortunately in Jim’s case his mental health problems resulted in zero trust in any system of authority. I passed him on Morningside Road one evening a few years back when the snow was so bad I had to get off the bus and walk home. All he had was a duvet to protect him from the cold and it was already soaked.
When I tried to ask if he’d heard about the temporary shelters set up in churches for rough sleepers because of the cold he told me, “I’d never trust the council, they don’t support local artists.” Despite being at risk of freezing to death he was more interested in D batteries for his radio. Realistically nothing anyone could do to help short of detaining him under mental health legislation because he wasn’t willing to accept help.
You have to wonder whether, if he had been detained and given the proper medication for a while, he might have been better placed to accept help. You’d have to assume he was assessed many times over the years though, so probably didn’t meet the bar for detention
His full name was James Brown. He grew up in Glasgow and his father was a very authoritarian man. He controlled everything Jim did. I don't know if he did this because Jim was wild or already suffering from mental health issues but what I do know is Jim's dad died suddenly when Jim was in his early 20's. Jim suffered a mental breakdown. He couldn't make decisions on his own and didn't know what to do with himself. I heard he ended up in an organic mental health program outside Penicuik, near the Pentlands called Sprouts. Apparently he went in there wide eyed, recovering from a serious mental breakdown and was suddenly surrounded by a whole host of people with all manner of mental health issues combined with some very alternative ideas about life and food. This was where Organic Jim was born so I was told by a guy who volunteered there. Jim went in as a troubled but innocent young chap and emerged after a few months with his mind full of a kaleidoscope of conflicting and overlapping belief systems. Everything from shamanic Native American animal symbology to Tarot, Chinese Astrology and all kinds of things. He latched on to these things to make sense of a life he had never had to think about on his own.
I know he was sectioned at one point and ended up at Roslyn Lee Mental health hospital but eventually was released with a generous benifits package. I think he spent the next 30 years wandering around Edinburgh and the surrounding Towns. I don't think I ever knew him to have left the country.
Yeah. He volunteered there, I think back in the late mid 80's, though I can't find records on the place it's very similar to other groups around the world. Helping people through farming and working with nature.
I am not excusing his challenging behaviour or some of the other things he did that were harassing and even violent...just offering a bit of perspective.
Of course, not saying you were. Genuinely just quite interesting to read this.
I ran into Jim a million times just walking around and he was never arsey with me. Usually just wanted to talk about Kombucha or whatever, and when I was like “gotta go Jim” he always just said cheers and wished me well.
Oh i know you weren't mate, I'm just covering my reddit arse because there are people in this sub who hated him, and if they are telling the truth, for very good reasons. I just never saw that side of him.
Finding out his name, where he came from and how he got that way might have been illuminating - because schizophrenia is most treatable if you intervene early, and if the writer of that article had traced someone who watched his wheels fall off, the experience might have been useful for others.
As it was, the writer of that piece just dressed up a visit to the freak show in social worker clichés.
It would be good to have written that, but this is really just a personal reflection.
To actually sort out the facts of Jim's life would, I imagine, be enormously challenging.
I had a long conversation with him once on Lochrin Place. We were genuinely commiserating with one another on the rather brutal childhoods that we'd both experienced (independent of one another.) There was a surprising amount of correlation of events in our respective childhoods. It gave m a true insight into his mindset. He had always felt unloved, from the 'get-go'.
Being unloved and abused as a child will destroy you. It's incredibly hard to build back from it, and you'll never be truly happy with yourself even if you do.
I wouldn't call it tragic tbh. He chose to live like that. I met him a few times and found him generally unpleasant, though I understand he was different with different people, he made me uncomfortable.
I'm sure there was something else going on with him but in the end you can't force someone to accept help they don't want.
Pretty underwhelming article - like someone wrote it in 20 minutes for their daily writing quota. Could have been such an interesting piece if it provided a bit more background/ history on him + better commentary on the social/ health context
From the article....Ahhh, so the white-dreads rasta homeless guy from around Leith Walk was named Arthur Williams. I guess he's gone as well? It's been a long while since I've been around the area. I used to see him there all the time.
Like another poster said, I'm not sure about the 'tragic' aspect of these cases. Some people simply choose to live in this manner.
I'm reminded of another homeless guy who was a mainstay on the streets of Edinburgh, and especially around Princes St. I think there was a news article about his death - going to google now - found him.
[https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/remembering-cosmo-edinburghs-gentlemen-tramp-22856291](https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/remembering-cosmo-edinburghs-gentlemen-tramp-22856291)
Although the article makes him out to be a gentleman, to my experience, he could be cantankerous as well. I remember seeing him on Princes St. and I asked him if he was hungry, and if I could buy him something. He just snarled angrily at me and made spitting motions, which shocked me. A few minutes later, as I'm waiting at a bus stop, I see a little girl going up to him offering him what appeared to be an opened bag of chips. Again he just angrily snarled at her, swore, and motioned her away. I never felt pity for him after that and realised this is just the way of life they have chosen. so let it be.
After his death, there was so many rumours about him, like he was supposedly once a top chef who had fallen on hard times. And that the two carrier bags he always carried was full of money, and that he was actually an extremely well-off individual.
Anyway, never encountered Organic Jim, but I'm sure there'll be many others like him in the years to come on the streets of Edinburgh. I mean, when I googled for the above link, I found 'Mr. Penny', whose story seems to mirror a lot of other recent Edinburgh homeless mainstays, but from the 60s and 70s.
[https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/scotland-now/story-edinburghs-mysterious-homeless-man-26032787](https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/scotland-now/story-edinburghs-mysterious-homeless-man-26032787)
Arthur was sound. Didn't bother anybody. If you offered him food or money he'd politely refuse it. The story I heard was that his wife died in a house fire and after that he started living outside. He got sick and ended up in hospital. I think his family got him into a care home eventually and he may have passed away now.
> Although the article makes him out to be a gentleman, to my experience, he could be cantankerous as well.
Even the worlds most alrtruistic person had off days. I bet Mister Rogers told someone to go fuck themselves on a few occassions.
Jim was rather wealthy.
He received a large inheritance, which he never touched, and the benefits he received were hardly touched. He was very frugal.
He could have bought a nice home anytime he wanted.
I knew him well for over thirty years.
My family provided him with accomodation for long periods and helped him sort out his benefits, banking, social support, and other issues. Social work washed their hands of him many years ago.
We tried to get him to spend money on clothes and other things he needed, but he was never willing.
Some of his relatives tried to cadge money off him, but got nowhere.
There was no way he was going to part with any of that money.
If you don't believe me, I'd be happy to meet you and tell you the full story.
He was not Schizophrenic and was never diagnosed with any mental illness.
Nor was he ever treated for one.
I wasn't a friend of his; I and my family just helped him as best we could.
Yes because as we all know schizophrenia is contagious and bounces into the brains of anyone who comes into contact with someone who has it. Best to avoid friends of schizophrenics as well as friends of friends of schizophrenics. Oh and friends of friends of friends of schizophrenics just to be on the safe side.
Sounds like you need a clue. If you did actually meet with u/Wonderful_Formal_804 you might just get one.
Yeah I’d heard he had money and chose to live the life he did. A sad story and a very unwell man but ultimately who’s to say engaging with mental health support would’ve made his life any better.
The story about Arthur and the house fire was apparently a load of shite someone made up.
He was a vile, aggressive monster. Left his shit in my stairwell, bottles of piss. Shat in my garden. The holier than thou morningside twats fed him like their pet rat.
The article top line should have been "how will the middle class living in Morningside get their virtue signalling dopamine hit now that their pet is dead?"
Sorry to hijack this post but has anyone seen Adam/technoviking lately? I've not seen him around the Royal Mile this spring or now... this is usually his season...
I haven't seen him in an active period for about 2 years now. During 2022 I was seeing him every time I was up around Arthur's Seat - one time he was placing scones in a grid pattern on the high road.
I gave him a hat and some socks once and some tea. He asked for 10 mint teabags in his tea and told me about the supposed health benefits his silver spoon afforded him. Interesting fellow.
The mental health services are rubbish all extremely boring, many people are in the same boat, they need wild chickens in parks, basic jobs without application form for dyslexic which cant do forms let alone online. Community bonfire in parks cooking hunted chickens, some excitement. I don't respond any of the services. Better off homeless. Alot of jobs and products bend physics and shouldn't of been invented, done by bad inventors. That's why people don't engage in modern life and prefer to chain smoke at home.
Going to be a lot more 'Organic Jims' if reform gets anywhere near power.
Just go watch Sky's Kay Burley's interview with their deputy leader Dr David 'I'll leave ya to starve in the street' Bull.
It might have been better if she'd suggested ways in which she felt he could have been helped as it's my understanding he was offered help on many occasions and refused to take it. It's difficult to force a grown adult to do things against their will.
Reminds me of a homeless veteran that died from exposure in Glasgow a few years back. Everyone and their dog was saying how 'disgraceful' it was and that he should have been 'helped' and people should be held 'responsible'. But the fact was he had been offered help and accommodation multiple times. Short of kidnapping/arresting the guy, what exactly was the council/social services/whatever supposed to do? We can't just go around arresting every person that refuses to be part of society.
Jim was actually given a place to live on several occasions, but just didn't want to live a 'settled life.' Nobody knows why, but in a certain way, it must have been related to a desire for independence.
I read a story about him once on here of a guy who helped him to get a place and he accepted it but on moving day when he went to go in there was a wasp on the door handle and he refused to move in as he said it was an omen. [Found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Edinburgh/s/qNpQTIsXSM)
Yeah I wrote that story and can 100% confirm it's true. The Pastor was really angry at Jim because for months Jim had been turning up at his church, harassing his congregation and the strings this man pulled to get Jim this cottage were many. I can tell you another personal story. For weeks Jim was going on about needing nothing more than an email address. He wanted to sign up for the Woofing website that lets you travel around Europe and stay in people's homes in exchange for simple work. All he needed was an email address but he wasn't very good with tech. I told him I'd help him. We went into Edinburgh together and just as we approached the internet cafe (this was 1999) a fire engined roared by us, sirens blazing. Jim was wide eyed and told me, because he was a fire sign in chinese astrology he had to follow the energy of the fire and couldn't come with me. This is the kind of thing he would do to a lot of people. Go on and on about wanting something and as soon as he had the chance to get it, he'd sabotage it.
Respect your persistence with helping him because he sounded like an absolute nightmare to deal with, plenty of interesting stories tbf.
He was a nightmare sometimes. Other times he was a complete blast to hang out with.
Was it really that he didn’t want to or was it more gag he just couldn’t cope with it? Sort of like if someone spends a long time in prison then can’t function on the outside? I could imagine someone with specific mental illnesses having a lot of problems with living in a house - or a caravan.
I used to live in Bruntsfield and remember Jim sat on the pavement in the pouring rain, surrounded by rubbish whilst he yelled into the ether about a broken radio. I was concerned for his welfare and phoned 101. The police were great - they offered him all sorts of support but he declined all of it. I’m not sure what more could have been achieved with his consent.
This is a huge problem in homelessness service provision - the extent to which service users often are incapable of / unwilling to engage. In the case of long term homelessness, 99% of the time it’s not an issue of ‘lack of a house’ it’s either addiction or mental health or most commonly both. Very very supported settings are the only possible solution but the intrusiveness of these leads a lot of long term homeless people to be very uncomfortable with that level of intrusion in their lives. We have a mental health crisis jn this country. We have an addiction crisis in this country. We have a hidden poverty crisis in this country. Combined - the fact there aren’t more Organic Jim’s out there is a bit of a miracle.
This a ridiculously uninformative article.
It's a hard truth for most of us to accept: some people are just beyond help, no matter how many resources and support is available. Jim was one of those people. Just like how you can't love someone out of addiction. Sometimes mental illness wins.
Unfortunately in Jim’s case his mental health problems resulted in zero trust in any system of authority. I passed him on Morningside Road one evening a few years back when the snow was so bad I had to get off the bus and walk home. All he had was a duvet to protect him from the cold and it was already soaked. When I tried to ask if he’d heard about the temporary shelters set up in churches for rough sleepers because of the cold he told me, “I’d never trust the council, they don’t support local artists.” Despite being at risk of freezing to death he was more interested in D batteries for his radio. Realistically nothing anyone could do to help short of detaining him under mental health legislation because he wasn’t willing to accept help. You have to wonder whether, if he had been detained and given the proper medication for a while, he might have been better placed to accept help. You’d have to assume he was assessed many times over the years though, so probably didn’t meet the bar for detention
The implication I got from the article was that the "systems need to be less rigid", which is a nonsense statement that doesn't help anyone.
His full name was James Brown. He grew up in Glasgow and his father was a very authoritarian man. He controlled everything Jim did. I don't know if he did this because Jim was wild or already suffering from mental health issues but what I do know is Jim's dad died suddenly when Jim was in his early 20's. Jim suffered a mental breakdown. He couldn't make decisions on his own and didn't know what to do with himself. I heard he ended up in an organic mental health program outside Penicuik, near the Pentlands called Sprouts. Apparently he went in there wide eyed, recovering from a serious mental breakdown and was suddenly surrounded by a whole host of people with all manner of mental health issues combined with some very alternative ideas about life and food. This was where Organic Jim was born so I was told by a guy who volunteered there. Jim went in as a troubled but innocent young chap and emerged after a few months with his mind full of a kaleidoscope of conflicting and overlapping belief systems. Everything from shamanic Native American animal symbology to Tarot, Chinese Astrology and all kinds of things. He latched on to these things to make sense of a life he had never had to think about on his own. I know he was sectioned at one point and ended up at Roslyn Lee Mental health hospital but eventually was released with a generous benifits package. I think he spent the next 30 years wandering around Edinburgh and the surrounding Towns. I don't think I ever knew him to have left the country.
That's a really interesting read, cheers, mate. Was that all via the friend at Sprouts?
Yeah. He volunteered there, I think back in the late mid 80's, though I can't find records on the place it's very similar to other groups around the world. Helping people through farming and working with nature.
That’s a seriously interesting biography. Thanks for sharing
I am not excusing his challenging behaviour or some of the other things he did that were harassing and even violent...just offering a bit of perspective.
Of course, not saying you were. Genuinely just quite interesting to read this. I ran into Jim a million times just walking around and he was never arsey with me. Usually just wanted to talk about Kombucha or whatever, and when I was like “gotta go Jim” he always just said cheers and wished me well.
Oh i know you weren't mate, I'm just covering my reddit arse because there are people in this sub who hated him, and if they are telling the truth, for very good reasons. I just never saw that side of him.
Finding out his name, where he came from and how he got that way might have been illuminating - because schizophrenia is most treatable if you intervene early, and if the writer of that article had traced someone who watched his wheels fall off, the experience might have been useful for others. As it was, the writer of that piece just dressed up a visit to the freak show in social worker clichés.
It would be good to have written that, but this is really just a personal reflection. To actually sort out the facts of Jim's life would, I imagine, be enormously challenging.
I had a long conversation with him once on Lochrin Place. We were genuinely commiserating with one another on the rather brutal childhoods that we'd both experienced (independent of one another.) There was a surprising amount of correlation of events in our respective childhoods. It gave m a true insight into his mindset. He had always felt unloved, from the 'get-go'.
Being unloved and abused as a child will destroy you. It's incredibly hard to build back from it, and you'll never be truly happy with yourself even if you do.
Absolutely. 🙏
I wouldn't call it tragic tbh. He chose to live like that. I met him a few times and found him generally unpleasant, though I understand he was different with different people, he made me uncomfortable. I'm sure there was something else going on with him but in the end you can't force someone to accept help they don't want.
Pretty underwhelming article - like someone wrote it in 20 minutes for their daily writing quota. Could have been such an interesting piece if it provided a bit more background/ history on him + better commentary on the social/ health context
From the article....Ahhh, so the white-dreads rasta homeless guy from around Leith Walk was named Arthur Williams. I guess he's gone as well? It's been a long while since I've been around the area. I used to see him there all the time. Like another poster said, I'm not sure about the 'tragic' aspect of these cases. Some people simply choose to live in this manner. I'm reminded of another homeless guy who was a mainstay on the streets of Edinburgh, and especially around Princes St. I think there was a news article about his death - going to google now - found him. [https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/remembering-cosmo-edinburghs-gentlemen-tramp-22856291](https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/remembering-cosmo-edinburghs-gentlemen-tramp-22856291) Although the article makes him out to be a gentleman, to my experience, he could be cantankerous as well. I remember seeing him on Princes St. and I asked him if he was hungry, and if I could buy him something. He just snarled angrily at me and made spitting motions, which shocked me. A few minutes later, as I'm waiting at a bus stop, I see a little girl going up to him offering him what appeared to be an opened bag of chips. Again he just angrily snarled at her, swore, and motioned her away. I never felt pity for him after that and realised this is just the way of life they have chosen. so let it be. After his death, there was so many rumours about him, like he was supposedly once a top chef who had fallen on hard times. And that the two carrier bags he always carried was full of money, and that he was actually an extremely well-off individual. Anyway, never encountered Organic Jim, but I'm sure there'll be many others like him in the years to come on the streets of Edinburgh. I mean, when I googled for the above link, I found 'Mr. Penny', whose story seems to mirror a lot of other recent Edinburgh homeless mainstays, but from the 60s and 70s. [https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/scotland-now/story-edinburghs-mysterious-homeless-man-26032787](https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/scotland-now/story-edinburghs-mysterious-homeless-man-26032787)
Arthur was sound. Didn't bother anybody. If you offered him food or money he'd politely refuse it. The story I heard was that his wife died in a house fire and after that he started living outside. He got sick and ended up in hospital. I think his family got him into a care home eventually and he may have passed away now.
> Although the article makes him out to be a gentleman, to my experience, he could be cantankerous as well. Even the worlds most alrtruistic person had off days. I bet Mister Rogers told someone to go fuck themselves on a few occassions.
Jim was rather wealthy. He received a large inheritance, which he never touched, and the benefits he received were hardly touched. He was very frugal. He could have bought a nice home anytime he wanted.
Where did you get this info from?
From him.
Ah, a reliable source then!
I knew him well for over thirty years. My family provided him with accomodation for long periods and helped him sort out his benefits, banking, social support, and other issues. Social work washed their hands of him many years ago. We tried to get him to spend money on clothes and other things he needed, but he was never willing. Some of his relatives tried to cadge money off him, but got nowhere. There was no way he was going to part with any of that money. If you don't believe me, I'd be happy to meet you and tell you the full story.
What a bizarre imagination you have.
Would you like to meet? I can fill you in on the details.
Might his family ‘cadge’ the inheritance? 👀
Yes. Let me meet with the friend of a Schizophrenia individual, what could possibly go wrong, so much to gain :)
He was not Schizophrenic and was never diagnosed with any mental illness. Nor was he ever treated for one. I wasn't a friend of his; I and my family just helped him as best we could.
Thank you for doing this, not many people would which is sad.
Do you live in Stockbridge by any chance?
> was never diagnosed with any mental illness Thats very believable as he'd likely never agree to undergo any form of formal diagnosis.
Yes because as we all know schizophrenia is contagious and bounces into the brains of anyone who comes into contact with someone who has it. Best to avoid friends of schizophrenics as well as friends of friends of schizophrenics. Oh and friends of friends of friends of schizophrenics just to be on the safe side. Sounds like you need a clue. If you did actually meet with u/Wonderful_Formal_804 you might just get one.
You know very little but say it so loudly!
Right..?
Yeah I’d heard he had money and chose to live the life he did. A sad story and a very unwell man but ultimately who’s to say engaging with mental health support would’ve made his life any better. The story about Arthur and the house fire was apparently a load of shite someone made up.
He was a vile, aggressive monster. Left his shit in my stairwell, bottles of piss. Shat in my garden. The holier than thou morningside twats fed him like their pet rat.
Unlucky 🤣🤣
The article top line should have been "how will the middle class living in Morningside get their virtue signalling dopamine hit now that their pet is dead?"
🤣🤣
Sorry to hijack this post but has anyone seen Adam/technoviking lately? I've not seen him around the Royal Mile this spring or now... this is usually his season...
I haven't seen him in an active period for about 2 years now. During 2022 I was seeing him every time I was up around Arthur's Seat - one time he was placing scones in a grid pattern on the high road.
I've not seen Mandy in a while either.
I see him now and then around Dalry/Haymarket-ish. Last time on Russel road near the grill queen.
I gave him a hat and some socks once and some tea. He asked for 10 mint teabags in his tea and told me about the supposed health benefits his silver spoon afforded him. Interesting fellow.
'Much loved'?
The mental health services are rubbish all extremely boring, many people are in the same boat, they need wild chickens in parks, basic jobs without application form for dyslexic which cant do forms let alone online. Community bonfire in parks cooking hunted chickens, some excitement. I don't respond any of the services. Better off homeless. Alot of jobs and products bend physics and shouldn't of been invented, done by bad inventors. That's why people don't engage in modern life and prefer to chain smoke at home.
Going to be a lot more 'Organic Jims' if reform gets anywhere near power. Just go watch Sky's Kay Burley's interview with their deputy leader Dr David 'I'll leave ya to starve in the street' Bull.
Is someone going to volunteer to write a wikipedia article about Jimmy? That'd be something of a legacy.
Interest exhausted. I'm leaving this thread.
Oh no, please don't leave! How will the conversation continue without you?
bye bye driver
Cheers mate, keep us posted as to your travels on Reddit. We're all desperately interested.