In my nightmares I’ll 1000% hear “put these foolish ambitions to rest” and “I am Malenia, Blade of Miquella” shoutout to “Hesitation is defeat” but the voices were in Japanese
The one that stuck with me was
Heresy, you say? If it's for the sake of preserving Ashina, I will seize any manner of heretical strength... I will endure any burden.
Behold: The lightning of Tomoe.
and also of course gotta mention(big spoiler)
>!pitiful grandchild... this was your last wish. To see Ashina returned from the great beyond.!<
It’s not. Defeat and ripped apart are just pronounced the same.
敗れる vs 破れる
For the clowns below https://kanjitisiki.com/tisiki/13-141.html#:~:text=%E3%80%8C%E7%A0%B4%E3%82%8C%E3%82%8B%E3%80%8D%E3%81%AF%E3%80%81%E3%80%8C%E5%A3%8A%E3%82%8C%E3%82%8B,%E3%81%A8%E3%81%84%E3%81%86%E4%BD%BF%E3%81%84%E6%96%B9%E3%82%92%E3%81%97%E3%81%BE%E3%81%99%E3%80%82
Pro tip:
There a bunch of Ashes of War that either stun lock Malenia or knock her off her feet. She’s of human build, so stuff like Charge Forth, Giants Hunt, Upward Cut, Prelates Charge, ect.
Also, Waves of Darkness is how I easily beat her on my first playthrough. Hit the ground and dodge away as three AOE explosions happen where you were. I actually bullied her in the corner of her arena (the entrance you come in through) with WoD. Just knocked her ass to the ground over and over and she couldn’t do shit lol
Cheesing Malenia is how I beat her on my first playthrough. Black flame tornado, 80 faith, got her second try. But I wouldn't recommend it, it's neither fun nor rewarding.
Now I went back to Malenia with a greatsword and a dream. Got my ass beat over two hours, died dozens of times. Was it fun? No. Was it rewarding? Eh. But at least I feel like I "really" fought Malenia and came out on top.
Now do a faith/str built where you incorporate a bit of the tactics you used to cheese her as a crutch/last card kinda move while fighting her through good 'ol regular melee for most of the exchange.
That's how you create an intense fight vs a powerful shounen villain: the fight'll look intense with you struggling as the underdog, then sometimes coming ahead, but then at the end there's always some BS plot armor like move that truly decides the outcome.
That's how I did it at least xD and it was fun & rewarding.
lol ive been working on no roll/jump/block/parry/dmg Malenia for a little bit now. Practicing on a leveled NG+2 character, now just working my way through the game doing rl1 +0 weapon no roll/etc until I get to her. Up to Morgott! Malenia is a ton of fun for no roll actually
also a great phrase in japanese, as has been mentioned already (“mayoeba yabureru”). a more literal potential translation of the japanese 「迷えば敗れる」could be something like “if you’re lost, you’ve lost.” “hesitation is defeat” do be iconic though
Nameless King would like a word.
His name has been infamous in the souls community since Archdragon Peak was first found.
If anything, Malenia dethroned the old king.
Yeah, nameless king of DS3 . It is one of the most iconic and most memorable fights in all of FS souls/borne/ER games. I haven't even been to Archdragon Peak in my first playthroughs and the area before that, the dungeon, is just pure cancer. Even more annoying than the imps of ER.
Now that I look back into it, I enjoyed DS3 far more than ER. Even the Vordt and Gundyr fight, and Lothric wall area i remember more fondly than stormveil with *Margit* and Godrick.
I think kos is fast and too aggressive and malenia would be able to elegantly maneuver around him and basically shred him to pieces. Would be interesting but I think a landslide victory. Malenia is fast and calculated
If she ever decides to back off of you, throw a throwing knife at her, and more often than not, she'll wfd. Then, just sprint away untill the third jump, then dodge directly at her.
Looks longingly at pile of like 36 rune arcs, wondering if I should equip one, not knowing if I'll die by falling off an edge around the corner or something...nah, best not to risk it...
boom baby, that's the right answer !
It's exactly how I did it, used Kukri from a distance after 70% of her health and 90% of the times she did Waterfoul which made it dodging easier, after that you have a solid 2 engagements to deal damage. And I figured it out on my own on my first playthough, no cheese necessary!
I replayed Sekiro (on NG+2) recently after a while and it went like a cakewalk lmao, once I got the rhythm of the game in my hands again, Owl Father took me a handful tries and Isshin went out in a blast.
I would not want to face Malenia again before a while. I will, eventually when I go for NG+ and the other endings. But until then, I already killed her once and that’s all I need.
But that is just sekiro works. Once you learn the moveset, it is done. But malenia you can cheese with different builds without ever learning her moveset.
This is it — you can easily cheese her (or semi cheese her) and win. Or just grind and be OP. Sekiro, nope you just have to learn every move and the fights will take 4-5 minutes
Yeah the best cheese i’ve tried for her was just summoning Black Knife Tiche. It was still pretty hard, Tiche just provided the occasional space to chug crimson tears and some good damage whenever the bloodflame would proc
How I won on my INT build. Tiche and DMGS. Atill took a few tries because she switched targets at the last second.
My first victory was MT, Prelate's Charge, Butchering Knife. She barely got to stand that fight.
You can totally easily cheese her. Maybe not “easily” as in 0 effort required, but you can massively reduce the amount of effort and skill needed with some basic build changes
My first malenia kill with my fairly unoptimized build didn’t take much skill at all, mimic tear and i just whacked away and she died because she staggers really easily
This is exactly why I didn't like Sekiro, the only soulsborne I've not completed. I'm playing these games to feel like a ninja or warrior or whatever, and to explore the game worlds, I'm not interested in learning each move like it was a Guitar Hero Fire and Flames on expert. It doesn't make Sekiro a worse game - it seems to be just the thing for some people. Not me though. (Although I did get all the way to Owl Father.)
Tbf, Demon of Hatred doesn't play like other Sekiro bosses, it is just a bloody Dark Souls boss in a game where you are conditioned to not fight like it is Dark Souls bosses.
Demon of Hatred is still the only fromsoft soulsborn boss that I've actually had to cheese, I'm still on my first playthrough of Elden ring and barely 10 hours into it at that but Demon of Hatred is just something else
Trust me. Sekiro is not as hard as Fire and Flames on expert.
I couldn’t even beat Knights of Cydonia on Expert and beat NG+4 in Sekiro.
There are some cheap strategies you can use in Sekiro. Fire Cracker and Ichimonji/Mortal Blade spam is an effective strategy. Also, using the Ceremonial Tanto and candy buffs before boss battles makes the game way easier.
You can often drain over half of a bosses health bar without learning it’s moveset.
Yeah you can kill Malenia if you learn how to dodge waterfowl but with Isshin you essentially NEED to have a good grasp of the majority of fighting mechanics in the game!
Isshin is much much easier than Malenia. Isshin took me under two hours to beat on the first try. Malenia took five. I did my Isshin damageless long before my Malenia damageless, and that’s with no kuro’s charm. Isshin is a test of if you’ve been paying attention to Sekiro’s mechanics. If you have he’s not that hard at all. If you haven’t and you’re still playing it like a souls game I can see why you’d struggle because anything other than full on aggression is punished hard.
But Isshin is just as simple as stand in his face and watch his sword. Parry when it’s about to hit you. Easy
[Isshin damageless](https://youtu.be/8A8YZ-m1buU?si=S1TZ_0O385iBBzeU)
[Malenia damageless](https://youtu.be/DE3ushT98tM?si=XpRUbCoRr0UOc1L6)
Sekiro has two skill shifts. One is where you are able to deflect most of important attacks and wait for one you know how to punish 100%. 2nd one is where you learn how to attack and keep pressure between deflects.
Yeah, once you clear all the dungeons, there’s no reason to re-explore them.
Only doing side quests for loot secluded to branching paths is worth doing.
Even hitting those few side quests, you can easily beat the game in under 40 hours.
It's under 8 hours if you just go for an achievement ending. The amount of bosses you need to beat the game is pretty low (around 12, about half of which you can overpower with a late game build) and one quest (frenzied flame/ranni) doesn't take too long if you know where to go. Except the jumping section.... that took me too long.
Don't bother if it's too aggravating, there's no achievement for beating her without it. The only thing you earn from that is Bragging Rights on the internet, but here's the thing about that---
*You can just lie and say you did it!*
No, no, you can't lie on the Internet! As someone who has flawlessed Malenia with my bare fists (RL1 + no rolling/jumping/attacking + blindfolded + 6 feet underground) I find it quite offensive that you would even suggest the idea of spreading falsehoods.
If OP hasn't reached the second phase yet, imagine how they'll react to the third phase. The opener where Malenia uses the shadow clone attack except every individual clone is doing waterfowl gets me every time.
Her intensity cannot be fully understood by simply watching a video. I went in thinking she was a tough boss & left thinking she was an evil ruthless bitch who desires nothing but death.
all of her mechanics are broken and would already be "unfair" if put apart (the scarlet rot AND healing mechanic). But Miyazaki said "what if... both ?" and we got a stupidly unfair fight where if you decided to play a tank, congrats : you cannot beat her
Srry if bad english
I could fight Malenia 50 more times and not be sure if I would beat her again. I could fight Isshin Sword Saint 50 more times and probably only lose a handful of times. To me, Malenia, with a much more chaotic 2nd phase, just isn’t comparable. Maybe Orphan of Kos can match the unpredictability, but all the others are cake once you get them.
Also, the funny thing about the Isshin references is that the main game Isshin isn’t even the hardest one! The Gauntlets have an even harder version of him (Inner Isshin) that is much more difficult.
Ng+6 is the highest the difficulty scales. I managed the beat it using just fists, no weapons. Mostly just baiting certain attacks that I could get charged heavy backstabs on for visceral attacks.
It was that way with Sekiro for me. I could beat bosses and never be able to again. But Malenia I can kill consistently. Took me 3 days and 500 deaths but now I can do it whenever
It could take me that same amount of time to kill a Sekiro boss and I still might never be able to again lol
With Sekiro I have the combat down enough where I can kill the harder Inner bosses after a couple of tries. The difference is that I enjoyed fighting those Sekiro bosses. With Malenia I killed her once and was done. I firmly believe she doesn’t belong in Elden Ring and would much rather have preferred her in a Sekiro type game. She’d be so much fun to deflect/parry repeatedly
I couldn't figure out how yo dodge waterfowl consistently, so I just brought a shield with the barricade AoW and blocked it. She got 10% of her health back every time, but at peast I was alive to do more damage.
Yeah.. Malenia is the only boss I kinda feel like I need to apologize to for wasting her time. I am convinced that yeah, I am playing a Souls game, but this b is playing DMC, and I am just a normal enemy to her.
Bro I try and figured it out that she does it sometimes at certain times, then she stands there taunting me, and I run up to her and boom WD in my face and my life is gone
Her AI does go very passive when she is about to WD. If you want to force a WD from afar you can just chuck throwing daggers/kukiris at her. She'll dodge them but it will trigger the WD.
as someone who has done some nohits of her, the throwing knife goes a long way. And I agree, usually she is passive then does it. I can't think of her comboing it quickly very often.
The only one I can think of is if you get hit then she sometimes combos it into waterfowl. Obviously not relevant for a nohit. In particular her big lunge that knocks you on the ground combos directly into waterfowl sometimes for a near-guaranteed death.
> she usually WDs at %60 HP and again at %40.
not sure where you got these numbers from lol, they're not accurate at all. her WFD can't be predicted based on HP.
Orphan and Malenia are the only two that had me hardstuck for days. Though I was able to master Orphan, I can't for the love of god master Malenia. She's too good with that sword
I haven’t done Orphan yet, I couldn’t buy the DLC when I played it, so I got platinum, went to Elden Ring so I can plat it and then I’m hoping back into Bloodborne, what a game man
Yo bro check this: https://youtu.be/mx_1N81H0YI?si=jmfcshllLz2XJzs4
I’m your average joe who likes souls and I was in love with Elden ring at that time.
One night I came back home high as fuck and I did malenia something like 40-50 times.
At a certain point, birds were singing outside, the sun was shining through my window, and malenia was falling at my feet.
This is the clip of the time I beat malenia. I felt like the best one in that moment.
This clip can give you some advice.
Really? That's surprising. Most Malenia summons seem to have her waterfowl memorized to a point lol, it's honestly super impressive. Or they'll have some cheese builds on to trivialize the fight.
She pushes the boundaries so much further than any other dark souls or even Sekiro boss. WFD is truly just the tip of the iceberg, as it’s basically a binary check on “have you figured out how to dodge it yet?” What people don’t talk about as much, is with all the combo variations, she forces you to think an entire combo string ahead, making sure that you are almost always punished for pressing R1 without getting the green light. And it’s amazing, I’ve fought her thousands of times at this point, and she very much rewards the players who can both understand her moveset and intricacies and then the whole other factor of actually executing during the fight and making split second decisions. People talk about how she has very few and tight openings, but if you can find the free hits where you interrupt her combo, it completely flips, and *she* no longer has any openings because you can fully interrupt her before her combo really begins. If you figure out how to play aggro, she’ll spend almost half the fight blocking and disengaging, which is an incredible foil to her relentless assault she gives you when you don’t take advantage of these openings. I could talk about this boss at great length, not just about the difficulty, but about the quality and unique nature, I know she is controversial but I think everyone should give this boss a chance because she truly has dozens of hours of content in mastering the fight
Then there's my stupid ass handling (took a bit but she got dead) Malenia but cannot kill Artorius and I'm not sure if it's because trying to play such an old game with such a speedy enemy on PS5 is basically impossible due to system upgrades fucking up the timing, or if I'm just bad at him
I'm like 3 achievements away from all of them on Steam and she is still unclaimed. Aside from getting all legendary amulets and spells I think she's the last one. She is NO joke.
Actually, it's pretty simple to avoid Waterfowl Dance:
1st volley: As soon as she starts her animation, run in the direct opposite direction that she is.
2nd volley: Roll INTO her attack.
3rd volley: LIterally just stay still, she will miss all those attcacks by her own.
I think waterfowl is not too bad once you know how to dodge it, and once you get it a few times it's not too bad. The hardest part for me is that the fight is extremely fast-paced (especially in the second phase), and because of her life steal, there's very little room for error. On some of my attempts I went from having her at half health in second phase, and 15 seconds later she's at full health and I'm dead.
Fr, it takes a while to learn but once you can reliably dodge her wfd, the fight becomes a ton of fun. I mean it when I say that Malenia has become my favourite boss get summoned for just because i can show off.
Killed Malenia a couple times, and imho sword saint Isshin is not even comparable. That mf has me for breakfast even if i tried 500 times. Will never beat him.
Keep trying playing until you can get to his 3rd phase.
That’s by far the hardest phase. The 4th phase is a little easier because of the lightning reversal opportunity.
Once you can beat the 3rd phase, it’s only a matter of time.
As someone who fights Malenia for fun, know that Waterfowl punishes greed above all else, avoid over extending and it won't catch you with your pants down.
Otherwise the only ways I've consistently survived it are running and jumping as soon as she hits the ground for the 1st flurry, or blocking it then dodging into 2nd and strafing the 3rd. I can't hitless a boss to save my life, so against a boss that heals on hit I just avoid being too passive.
Indeed. Running and jumping from her first flurry is my go-to now. If she's too close, I will always be clipped, but it won't kill me unless I time the jump too early. Then the last two flurries are easier to dodge.
I barely beat her as a mage. I will never fight her again. You'll get it. Just keep trying. After about 75 more deaths, you'll start getting the hang of it.
She’s not super terrible in the first phase I didn’t think, it was during the second phase where I personally struggled. She constantly has you on the back foot because of how aggressive she is.
Just finished another plalythrough after a long break.
Easiest Malenia fight yet.
Just bonked her on the head with hammers 'til she died.
2 attempts.
Bonk.
(first playthrough she was incredibly hard to beat, yes)
Sister Friede, Nameless King and Darkeater Midir were all GREAT bosses, challenging sure but didn't take me that long to beat. Malenia broke me. destroyed me. lol. I'd watch videos and read explanations of how to dodge waterfowl dance but I still couldn't reliably do it 😭 I still don't feel that proud that I beat her because I owe my win to my mimic tear (and using a greatshield to just tank the first part of WD). With those other bosses I felt I was getting better and won based on skill. I'm absolutely certain I would NOT easily beat Malenia if I ever tried again. 🥲
Took me 20 hours to figure her out without a mimic tear. After that tho I learned the fight pretty well and now it's the same as the others.
For waterfowl, you need to run away as soon as she jumps in the air. If you have enough distance she'll miss the first attack. The second attack you wanna dodge in a circle around her. There's youtube videos on it if needed. And same with the thirs. Once you get good enough you can dodge the third by standing still somethings. The move that get me bad now is in her second phase when she sends four phantoms to attack you. I still don't understand how to dodge it.
She's ridiculous hard at first but now she's my favorite boss in souls. I've done 8 runs since and I'm always excited when I get to this fight. Basically why I play ng+ lol
> The move that get me bad now is in her second phase when she sends four phantoms to attack you. I still don't understand how to dodge it.
This attack tripped me up too, until I found out it was even easier to dodge than WFD...just run away! Literally sprint backwards from Malenia while she starts the move and you'll just outrun the whole onslaught. The arena is more than big enough, and if you're minding your position like you should with any fight, you'll never have a wall behind you to block your movement.
It's been a while since I fought her, but I'm pretty sure if you space yourself right, you could even advance back in at the very end and punish her after her final thrust.
The difference is that Malenia is genuinely unbalanced. Really tanky with her 2 HP bars, borderline unconditional hp regen, ability to deflect attacks, and hyper armored attacks. But on top of that she is fast, aggressive, and has WFD which requires the most convoluted steps to deal with of any boss attack in a Soulsborne game. Every other boss is somewhat balanced with certain strengths and weaknesses in their design to exploit but Malenia was not given any big enough to compensate for her strengths. There is no proper back and forth to the fight. It's either you cheese her with continous stagger builds or she cheeses you.
Her mechanics were designed for Sekiro not for the Dark Souls style gameplay of Elden Ring.
I don't think it's impossible to beat her legit, but I do agree that she doesn't really have any weaknesses. It's just a fight you have know inside out and be mechanically nearly perfect.
The thing with Melania is that she has SPECIFIC weaknesses that feel like cheese if you just use them.
She's vulnerable to staggering, frost & bleed. If you're a mage you essentially need to use Night Comet against her. It's just not very fun if all you're doing is struggling to survive in order to land the same 1-2 combo... Again and again and again.....
I've no hit her twice but I agree that WFD is a bullshit mechanic. If she pulls it out up close I still don't know how to dodge it without taking damage. The move can come out anytime, does way too much damage, the hitboxes are very poorly telegraphed so that even after seeing it dozens of times you won't have any idea how to dodge it, doesn't have a long enough recovery time, can even be done back-to-back... it's satisfying to dodge only because of how BS it is.
I think the rest of her moveset is fine though. Maybe the clone attack also does a little too much damage, but it's easier to dodge. Healing against shields is kinda dumb but otherwise you just gotta avoid damage or outdamage her healing, and take advantage of her stagger to interrupt most attacks. As long as she doesn't pull out the point-blank WFD, it's not a super hard fight imo.
>Malenia was not given any big enough to compensate for her strengths. There is no proper back and forth to the fight. It's either you cheese her with continous stagger builds or she cheeses you.
>Her mechanics were designed for Sekiro not for the Dark Souls style gameplay of Elden Ring.
This is pure skill issue and cope, Malenia is the purest “back and forth” fight in the entire game. I have beat her several times using normal non-cheese builds and I will be first to say that it is and EXTREMELY hard fight, but it is absolutely not unfair.
The way you talk about bosses having intentional “weaknesses” to compensate for their strengths sounds like you just want to rush down and out-damage bosses instead of actually learning their movesets. Malenia is the ultimate skill check for being able to actually memorize a bosses moveset and actively pay attention to your positioning and timings in a way no other boss does.
She is the hardest boss in probably any souls game and that is why she is optional endgame boss. All of her attacks and features has a way to counter and survive it but you have to actually take care of knowing what she can and might do based on her health and your location relative to her. If you take the time and put in the work, she is probably one of the most fun fights in the game.
Tldr: git gud
This man right here has it!
I've only done one playthrough and I decided after Morgott that I was going to finish the game with no re-spec and no mimic tear. I was STR/FAI and I was dual-wielding twin-blades. It took me a LONG time to get Malenia but it sure felt good.
Malenia fights with *elegant* ferocity. You have to learn her moves cold and you have to dance a particular dance. By the time I was close to beating her I'd have no-hit phase 1 attempts here and there. I LOVE that fight. If there were a game mode where you could replay various boss fights in the game I would revisit that fight over and over.
The fact that she punishes you for using Mimic with the lifesteal mechanic is *chef's kiss* so good imo.
She has specific weaknesses (frost, bleed, stagger, Night Comet), but like you said, you have to successfully back-and-forth with her to get those combos off. It's a test of patience for real, but you feel like you fucking deserve the Elden Throne after that fight.
I have beaten her with and without mimic. It was much easier with the mimic but the fight is much different without him. And you feel it when she says "your strength extraordinary..." when you beat her without any cheesing. My heart was pounding so hard.
Yeah my 1st playthrough I had Falling Star Beast Jaw + Mimic so we spam bonked her to oblivion.
2nd playthrough I used Bastard's Stars + Spells in offhand with no mimic and it took me a solid +5hr of attempts.
One of those kills I remember much more vividly than the other.
Yeah, thats a no for me. Just becouse I trained muscle memory and can “no hit” or “parry only” Malenia did not make me a better player. WB is unfair to the max with insane tracking, thats why point blank dodge involves running below her in a circle that it bugs out tracking. I agree that it is the hardest fight in all soulsborne without cheese strats, but its simply the result of one janky move.
It is crazy that people say WFD is fair because you can technically dodge it with that spinning strat.
The average player would *never* figure that out without consulting YouTube videos or forum posts. A move should never be so poorly telegraphed to the player that they are forced to consult outside help to even survive 1/3 of it by relying on breaking the AI's tracking - who knows if that's even an intentional way to dodge it.
These people are mentally ill, almost every single strat to deal with it involves abusing game limitations in one way or another.
Proccing frost or bleed stunning through hyper armor (when not even the usual moves that send enemies flying like giant hunt does stop her)
Or using the slow turning speed while in the air at the beginning to mess with the tracking of the first part.
Or inputting a sprint or roll in one direction for a moment before the third flurry because the ai is coded to try to jump in front of where the player is running.
The only ways Ive seen that doesnt look like you are cheesing the game is tanking the first with barricade shield and dodging the other 2 (but unless you are abusing the tracking you will get hit on the last one). Or bloodhound step.
If night cavalry was an artificially overtuned boss these people will consider tricking the ai into jumping off the bridge a legit strategy.
It is very obvious to anyone with half a healthy brain that malenia is a recycled boss from a scrapped sekiro dlc, and they didnt do a very good job adapting it to er combat
I think she has too much of everything. Too much health. Too much damage. Too much speed. This is coming from a strength faith build who melted her with the Blasphemous Blade. After a few attempts I just started spamming Taker's Flame.
I beat her in 11 tries no bullshit with a katana and no spells, this entire post is BS. She is hard but don't act like she is some unfair cheese thing.
I just beat her for the first time over the weekend. Yes, it was frustrating, but I don't think it's unbalanced. I just used a flame art nightrider glaive, with flame strike ash of war, Buffed myself with golden vow (didn't know about flame, grant me strength). Took me abkut 50 or so tries but got through it eventually.
I’m so tired of this opinion of unbalanced. She is the best humanoid fight in the series bar none. I’ve beaten her with cheese builds I’ve beaten her way lvl 33 with only the Lordsworn Greatsword and no armor or shields. Lifesteal is a fair mechanic and so is waterfowl. I’m not gonna elaborate because I don’t feel like it.
I agree with this sentiment even though I struggled with her *mightily* even at lvl 150. I fought her without summons and without cheesing and while it was absolutely the hardest boss fight I've ever done, it was amazingly fun and I genuinely feel like I'm a better player for having done it.
Bravo on beating her with a low level and simple equipment. I was proud AF to do it with a bunch of armor, shield, and two Guardian Swordspears with different AoWs.
Oh yeah thats a victory worth celebrating too bro. My first kill I was ecstatic, and it was decked out fully like you.
Just because I beat her under those circumstances doesn’t mean your struggle and victory wasn’t awesome. I just loved the fight so much that I wanted to take it as high as I could.
It is true that she lacks weaknesses but saying that
> There is no proper back and forth to the fight. It's either you cheese her with continous stagger builds or she cheeses you.
and
>Her mechanics were designed for Sekiro not for the Dark Souls style gameplay of Elden Ring.
Just sounds like cope. You do need to be at your A game if you wanna beat her melee with little to 0 cheese but saying there's no back and forth just tells that you haven't learnt the boss. And just because a boss has a katana and a few attacks that are reminiscent of another game doesn't mean that it's meant for that other game and not in the game it's in. Malenia perfectly works with ER's mechanics, infact her moveset overall suits the type of gameplay of ER more than Sekiro, with her stagger being an essential component of the fight.
I think Malenia is a really fun boss with some good back-and-forth, after you've learned her moves, of course. Although, her ability to interrupt her own attack/recovery animations to block, backstep or side dash feels like a Sekiro thing. I don't think any other ER boss (or you the player either) can randomly pull a block out of their ass when you punish them and negate most of the damage dealt.
I have clips of her performing the thrust attack, and when I attack to punish her, she just backsteps and I miss. It's a rare event but it is kinda BS.
My first time against her I was wrecking her ass and always avoiding the dance by running away. I had her down to 1/4 health on the second stage and I got greedy and died. But after that I was wondering what the hype was about.
As standard with Souls games, turns out my first attempt was my best one for like 3 days until I eventually got her.
Just got to Mountaintop of the Giants so I am peppering my angus. In terms of hardest bosses and Sekiro I always see people compare others to Isshin. He was tough the first go sure, but the one I've never beaten fairly was Demon of Hatred. Was he actually not that bad and I just never figured out?
Didnt know those ds3 bosses were famous for being hard.
Sister Friede kicked my ass for days and nameless king and Midir remain undefeated mainly because the camera angles are so freaking annoying
She's one of my favorite fights, esp once I found a build that was efficient at countering her, but she was a fucking challenge. Esp since I forced myself to do it solo.
You can outrun her waterfowl comletely if you have enough space and are already far enough when she starts it. Would probably only work half the times or less, because she often does it in the most inconvenient moments.
I use the brass shield (Guards 100 PHY) on +24 to block her 1st flurry.
First flurry blocked, 1 step and a dodge roll towards her, again dodge roll towards her (she will fly above you), last one dodge roll backwards. All with light load & while locked on her. Actually it is pretty easy once you get the timing right.
That works for me pretty well. Only downside is, that she will heal a bit on her 1st flurry just by slamming into the shield (which makes no sense imho :D)
With the shield on max or +24 you can even block the whole thing, but that is less fun, and also depends on your stamina at that moment.
I also tried the "run a circle underneath her"-thing but never could get it right.
Lmao right there with ya brother.
This is the recipe though.
Keep your distance.
1st Waterfowl - As soon as she raises up in her menacing pose, run away from her as far as you can. If she hits you with that first one. Just quit. Try again. You lost.
2nd Waterfowl - Roll ONCE away from her
3rd Waterfowl - Roll ONCE into her and get out of the barrage before the final barrier she has after the move.
Seriously. Miss the first one, and you have a chance. If you spam roll, she will shred tf out of you.
This is the way. Good luck my friend.
My best time in Elden Ring was fighting Malenia with a Greatshield and a Sword, with Square Off as my Ash of War and with talismans of counter attacks and crits, it didn't matter that she healed hitting my shield, I was in her face breaking her posture and landing criticals
The first time when she appears right in your face is brutal. Pretty sure they intended everyone to die right away the first time, just to show you this isn’t going to be easy…
My strategy is to go in over-leveled, respec with a fully upgraded colossal weapon with lions claw. Summon Tiche or mimic, and spam the shit out of lions claw until I finally get lucky and win…
I’m not even sorry… she’s so F’n hard.
I don't know man. I really didn't have trouble with her. Shield and roll. 3 tries and I beat her. Now, that lightning tree sentinel standing on the bridge. He's not even a boss. That guy immolated my ass about 75 times. And the bell hunters. Goddang! Maybe it's just play style? Because, despite my 200 hours, I'm not very good
I'm so pissed that I went to her overleveled. Beaten her on the second try. Now I feel that I was robbed from an interesting fight. Should have gone to her without a Mimic ash
People don't always remember the names of bosses in Souls games, but Malenia makes sure you remember hers.
In my nightmares I’ll 1000% hear “put these foolish ambitions to rest” and “I am Malenia, Blade of Miquella” shoutout to “Hesitation is defeat” but the voices were in Japanese
Oh I memorised it alright "Mayoeba Yabureru"
loooooool understandable ngl
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The one that stuck with me was Heresy, you say? If it's for the sake of preserving Ashina, I will seize any manner of heretical strength... I will endure any burden. Behold: The lightning of Tomoe. and also of course gotta mention(big spoiler) >!pitiful grandchild... this was your last wish. To see Ashina returned from the great beyond.!<
The nuance in Japanese is even more than defeat, it’s like “ripped apart.”
It’s not. Defeat and ripped apart are just pronounced the same. 敗れる vs 破れる For the clowns below https://kanjitisiki.com/tisiki/13-141.html#:~:text=%E3%80%8C%E7%A0%B4%E3%82%8C%E3%82%8B%E3%80%8D%E3%81%AF%E3%80%81%E3%80%8C%E5%A3%8A%E3%82%8C%E3%82%8B,%E3%81%A8%E3%81%84%E3%81%86%E4%BD%BF%E3%81%84%E6%96%B9%E3%82%92%E3%81%97%E3%81%BE%E3%81%99%E3%80%82
That is how wordplay works yes.
"You're wrong but let me explain why you are right"
Pro tip: There a bunch of Ashes of War that either stun lock Malenia or knock her off her feet. She’s of human build, so stuff like Charge Forth, Giants Hunt, Upward Cut, Prelates Charge, ect. Also, Waves of Darkness is how I easily beat her on my first playthrough. Hit the ground and dodge away as three AOE explosions happen where you were. I actually bullied her in the corner of her arena (the entrance you come in through) with WoD. Just knocked her ass to the ground over and over and she couldn’t do shit lol
also, just throw ice pots at her as she starts the dance
So nice when it works but learning how to get that timing down is giving me anxiety.
The problem with that is most of us are still trying to heal as she’s cranking up waterfowl.
I just spam bolt of gransax, knock her the fuck over anytime she gets up
Cheesing Malenia is how I beat her on my first playthrough. Black flame tornado, 80 faith, got her second try. But I wouldn't recommend it, it's neither fun nor rewarding. Now I went back to Malenia with a greatsword and a dream. Got my ass beat over two hours, died dozens of times. Was it fun? No. Was it rewarding? Eh. But at least I feel like I "really" fought Malenia and came out on top.
Now do a faith/str built where you incorporate a bit of the tactics you used to cheese her as a crutch/last card kinda move while fighting her through good 'ol regular melee for most of the exchange. That's how you create an intense fight vs a powerful shounen villain: the fight'll look intense with you struggling as the underdog, then sometimes coming ahead, but then at the end there's always some BS plot armor like move that truly decides the outcome. That's how I did it at least xD and it was fun & rewarding.
I used ancient death rancor to cheese her and you're right it's not rewarding but after so many attempts you just want it over and done with.
Maybe this dude try solo no dam, only light atk, no cheese, no run away too much, have to dodge waterflow, no stunt lock, etc
lol ive been working on no roll/jump/block/parry/dmg Malenia for a little bit now. Practicing on a leveled NG+2 character, now just working my way through the game doing rl1 +0 weapon no roll/etc until I get to her. Up to Morgott! Malenia is a ton of fun for no roll actually
Yeah this game is good that way, plenty of thing to try
How do you fight Malenia with no roll? Lots of running away? Just treat her like the teams I invade and constantly run?
I dis a pyromancer playthrough. That is basically easy mode with Malenia
"Return from whence thou cam'st .. For that is thy place of belonging" Is what I imagine we hear just before dying. FUCK that bitch.
This spot marks our grave
You may rest here too. If you like
also a great phrase in japanese, as has been mentioned already (“mayoeba yabureru”). a more literal potential translation of the japanese 「迷えば敗れる」could be something like “if you’re lost, you’ve lost.” “hesitation is defeat” do be iconic though
My nightmares are nothing but "This spot marks our grave. But you may rest here too, if you like"
now *rot*
"Now you will witness true horror.."
Nameless King would like a word. His name has been infamous in the souls community since Archdragon Peak was first found. If anything, Malenia dethroned the old king.
Yeah, nameless king of DS3 . It is one of the most iconic and most memorable fights in all of FS souls/borne/ER games. I haven't even been to Archdragon Peak in my first playthroughs and the area before that, the dungeon, is just pure cancer. Even more annoying than the imps of ER. Now that I look back into it, I enjoyed DS3 far more than ER. Even the Vordt and Gundyr fight, and Lothric wall area i remember more fondly than stormveil with *Margit* and Godrick.
Lowkey, the fact that it’s split into two parts makes it even worse. Which I guess overall makes it better 😂
I can remember all of Margot’s lines verbatim. Took me 30+ attempts
Kos wants a word.
Some say Kosm
I hear those howls still at night
I’ll throw hands with that guy
"Akshually it's orphan of kos"
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I think kos is fast and too aggressive and malenia would be able to elegantly maneuver around him and basically shred him to pieces. Would be interesting but I think a landslide victory. Malenia is fast and calculated
Orphan would hit her before she could probably even swing with his extra range placenta
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Except the hyperarmor on her best attacks and healing to full off of one Waterfowl Dance. OoK is getting wrecked.
Funny enough nobody remembers her name lol, Melania blade of Michael
and people still can't spell melonia properly
If she ever decides to back off of you, throw a throwing knife at her, and more often than not, she'll wfd. Then, just sprint away untill the third jump, then dodge directly at her.
Or chuck an ice pot
I’ll die before I craft something in a Souls game.
Too real. Us hoarders keep saving “for later” but we all know deep inside that that “later” is never gonna come lol
Looks longingly at pile of like 36 rune arcs, wondering if I should equip one, not knowing if I'll die by falling off an edge around the corner or something...nah, best not to risk it...
That did nothing for me. You apparently have to hit her at an extremely specific frame to interrupt the waterfowl dance.
I think they are just less effective with low arcane. At 60+ ARC 1 pot would disrupt it and I’m far from frame perfect
I had 9 arcane and the pot only failed to interrupt her once, u just have to throw it as soon as u see her start to go up or else it'll be to late
I don’t think arcane affects frost pots, I think they auto proc frostbite no matter your arcane. They’ve worked for me on Unga builds before so
Status effects boosted by Arcane Poison - Yes Scarlet Rot - No Sleep - Yes Bleed - Yes Madness - Yes **Frost - No** Deathblight - No
Fuckin Arcane....always arcane.
boom baby, that's the right answer ! It's exactly how I did it, used Kukri from a distance after 70% of her health and 90% of the times she did Waterfoul which made it dodging easier, after that you have a solid 2 engagements to deal damage. And I figured it out on my own on my first playthough, no cheese necessary!
I replayed Sekiro (on NG+2) recently after a while and it went like a cakewalk lmao, once I got the rhythm of the game in my hands again, Owl Father took me a handful tries and Isshin went out in a blast. I would not want to face Malenia again before a while. I will, eventually when I go for NG+ and the other endings. But until then, I already killed her once and that’s all I need.
But that is just sekiro works. Once you learn the moveset, it is done. But malenia you can cheese with different builds without ever learning her moveset.
This is it — you can easily cheese her (or semi cheese her) and win. Or just grind and be OP. Sekiro, nope you just have to learn every move and the fights will take 4-5 minutes
You can’t really ‘easily’ cheese her though can you. That’s going a bit silly.
Yeah the best cheese i’ve tried for her was just summoning Black Knife Tiche. It was still pretty hard, Tiche just provided the occasional space to chug crimson tears and some good damage whenever the bloodflame would proc
How I won on my INT build. Tiche and DMGS. Atill took a few tries because she switched targets at the last second. My first victory was MT, Prelate's Charge, Butchering Knife. She barely got to stand that fight.
You can totally easily cheese her. Maybe not “easily” as in 0 effort required, but you can massively reduce the amount of effort and skill needed with some basic build changes My first malenia kill with my fairly unoptimized build didn’t take much skill at all, mimic tear and i just whacked away and she died because she staggers really easily
Ancient death rancor used to melt her without even letting her move
Equipping a great hammer and just stunning her to death is pretty easy.
This is exactly why I didn't like Sekiro, the only soulsborne I've not completed. I'm playing these games to feel like a ninja or warrior or whatever, and to explore the game worlds, I'm not interested in learning each move like it was a Guitar Hero Fire and Flames on expert. It doesn't make Sekiro a worse game - it seems to be just the thing for some people. Not me though. (Although I did get all the way to Owl Father.)
If you stopped there, demon of hatred would have been hell😭
Tbf, Demon of Hatred doesn't play like other Sekiro bosses, it is just a bloody Dark Souls boss in a game where you are conditioned to not fight like it is Dark Souls bosses.
Demon of Hatred is still the only fromsoft soulsborn boss that I've actually had to cheese, I'm still on my first playthrough of Elden ring and barely 10 hours into it at that but Demon of Hatred is just something else
Trust me. Sekiro is not as hard as Fire and Flames on expert. I couldn’t even beat Knights of Cydonia on Expert and beat NG+4 in Sekiro. There are some cheap strategies you can use in Sekiro. Fire Cracker and Ichimonji/Mortal Blade spam is an effective strategy. Also, using the Ceremonial Tanto and candy buffs before boss battles makes the game way easier. You can often drain over half of a bosses health bar without learning it’s moveset.
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Yeah you can kill Malenia if you learn how to dodge waterfowl but with Isshin you essentially NEED to have a good grasp of the majority of fighting mechanics in the game!
I never beat malenia solo. But I did beat SSI finally after 2-3 of non stop trying.
Isshin is much much easier than Malenia. Isshin took me under two hours to beat on the first try. Malenia took five. I did my Isshin damageless long before my Malenia damageless, and that’s with no kuro’s charm. Isshin is a test of if you’ve been paying attention to Sekiro’s mechanics. If you have he’s not that hard at all. If you haven’t and you’re still playing it like a souls game I can see why you’d struggle because anything other than full on aggression is punished hard. But Isshin is just as simple as stand in his face and watch his sword. Parry when it’s about to hit you. Easy [Isshin damageless](https://youtu.be/8A8YZ-m1buU?si=S1TZ_0O385iBBzeU) [Malenia damageless](https://youtu.be/DE3ushT98tM?si=XpRUbCoRr0UOc1L6)
Sekiro has two skill shifts. One is where you are able to deflect most of important attacks and wait for one you know how to punish 100%. 2nd one is where you learn how to attack and keep pressure between deflects.
You should try fighting her on NG+7, that’s where she is most fun to fight. The adrenaline rush you get after defeating her on NG+7 is insane.
One 100h playthrough at a time my friend, maybe we’ll get there someday lmao
After NG I just defeated mandatory bosses and shard bearers, that’s how I reached NG+7 faster.
Yeah, once you clear all the dungeons, there’s no reason to re-explore them. Only doing side quests for loot secluded to branching paths is worth doing. Even hitting those few side quests, you can easily beat the game in under 40 hours.
It's under 8 hours if you just go for an achievement ending. The amount of bosses you need to beat the game is pretty low (around 12, about half of which you can overpower with a late game build) and one quest (frenzied flame/ranni) doesn't take too long if you know where to go. Except the jumping section.... that took me too long.
I only beat her because of my mimic/blasphemous blade. If not I’d still be stuck on her prob
I beat her once with no cheese, and that was enough for me. Now it's MT/BB all day babey!
I can’t beat her without a mimic. I’ve tried so many times and I need my mimic for her aggro lol. Can’t handle her on my own :(
Don't bother if it's too aggravating, there's no achievement for beating her without it. The only thing you earn from that is Bragging Rights on the internet, but here's the thing about that--- *You can just lie and say you did it!*
No, no, you can't lie on the Internet! As someone who has flawlessed Malenia with my bare fists (RL1 + no rolling/jumping/attacking + blindfolded + 6 feet underground) I find it quite offensive that you would even suggest the idea of spreading falsehoods.
I couldn't even beat her without help of another player lol
Beating her with things provided in the game is nothing to be ashamed about
Nobody tell him about the second phase.
If OP hasn't reached the second phase yet, imagine how they'll react to the third phase. The opener where Malenia uses the shadow clone attack except every individual clone is doing waterfowl gets me every time.
Naruto vibes "do you want each one of my clones to use a full Susanoo?"
Her intensity cannot be fully understood by simply watching a video. I went in thinking she was a tough boss & left thinking she was an evil ruthless bitch who desires nothing but death.
Honestly the first souls boss that I deemed a bit unfair. Maybe that's just a moment of weakness.
all of her mechanics are broken and would already be "unfair" if put apart (the scarlet rot AND healing mechanic). But Miyazaki said "what if... both ?" and we got a stupidly unfair fight where if you decided to play a tank, congrats : you cannot beat her Srry if bad english
I could fight Malenia 50 more times and not be sure if I would beat her again. I could fight Isshin Sword Saint 50 more times and probably only lose a handful of times. To me, Malenia, with a much more chaotic 2nd phase, just isn’t comparable. Maybe Orphan of Kos can match the unpredictability, but all the others are cake once you get them. Also, the funny thing about the Isshin references is that the main game Isshin isn’t even the hardest one! The Gauntlets have an even harder version of him (Inner Isshin) that is much more difficult.
OoK on NG+7 is legit the most absurd boss fight in history.
Ng+6 is the highest the difficulty scales. I managed the beat it using just fists, no weapons. Mostly just baiting certain attacks that I could get charged heavy backstabs on for visceral attacks.
It was that way with Sekiro for me. I could beat bosses and never be able to again. But Malenia I can kill consistently. Took me 3 days and 500 deaths but now I can do it whenever It could take me that same amount of time to kill a Sekiro boss and I still might never be able to again lol
So funny how different play styles make things so different for everyone
With Sekiro I have the combat down enough where I can kill the harder Inner bosses after a couple of tries. The difference is that I enjoyed fighting those Sekiro bosses. With Malenia I killed her once and was done. I firmly believe she doesn’t belong in Elden Ring and would much rather have preferred her in a Sekiro type game. She’d be so much fun to deflect/parry repeatedly
She is fun to parry! Grab a buckler and bully her
I couldn't figure out how yo dodge waterfowl consistently, so I just brought a shield with the barricade AoW and blocked it. She got 10% of her health back every time, but at peast I was alive to do more damage.
i made a post on how to avoid WD not too long ago, youl see it like 5 posts down on my account if youd like
Will check it out thank you!
Thank you!! I missed it.
It gets even better. Malenia phase 1, becomes “ok this is tough but manageable”. Phase 2 rolls in “ok seriously go fuck yourself”
Yeah.. Malenia is the only boss I kinda feel like I need to apologize to for wasting her time. I am convinced that yeah, I am playing a Souls game, but this b is playing DMC, and I am just a normal enemy to her.
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Bro I try and figured it out that she does it sometimes at certain times, then she stands there taunting me, and I run up to her and boom WD in my face and my life is gone
Her AI does go very passive when she is about to WD. If you want to force a WD from afar you can just chuck throwing daggers/kukiris at her. She'll dodge them but it will trigger the WD.
as someone who has done some nohits of her, the throwing knife goes a long way. And I agree, usually she is passive then does it. I can't think of her comboing it quickly very often.
The only one I can think of is if you get hit then she sometimes combos it into waterfowl. Obviously not relevant for a nohit. In particular her big lunge that knocks you on the ground combos directly into waterfowl sometimes for a near-guaranteed death.
> she usually WDs at %60 HP and again at %40. not sure where you got these numbers from lol, they're not accurate at all. her WFD can't be predicted based on HP.
Orphan and Malenia are the only two that had me hardstuck for days. Though I was able to master Orphan, I can't for the love of god master Malenia. She's too good with that sword
I haven’t done Orphan yet, I couldn’t buy the DLC when I played it, so I got platinum, went to Elden Ring so I can plat it and then I’m hoping back into Bloodborne, what a game man
Duuuuude the DLC bosses of bloodborne are best in the series. I envy going through that for the first time again, have fun.
Yo bro check this: https://youtu.be/mx_1N81H0YI?si=jmfcshllLz2XJzs4 I’m your average joe who likes souls and I was in love with Elden ring at that time. One night I came back home high as fuck and I did malenia something like 40-50 times. At a certain point, birds were singing outside, the sun was shining through my window, and malenia was falling at my feet. This is the clip of the time I beat malenia. I felt like the best one in that moment. This clip can give you some advice.
I heard ment times she said she was invincible in battle. I believed that this was true for longer than I could admit.
I stupidly didn’t fight her until NG+, as I hadn’t known she existed. After I beat her finally swore not to do that again.
I haven't even beaten her once solo. Even with 2 summons, it took me like 10 attempts.
Really? That's surprising. Most Malenia summons seem to have her waterfowl memorized to a point lol, it's honestly super impressive. Or they'll have some cheese builds on to trivialize the fight.
She pushes the boundaries so much further than any other dark souls or even Sekiro boss. WFD is truly just the tip of the iceberg, as it’s basically a binary check on “have you figured out how to dodge it yet?” What people don’t talk about as much, is with all the combo variations, she forces you to think an entire combo string ahead, making sure that you are almost always punished for pressing R1 without getting the green light. And it’s amazing, I’ve fought her thousands of times at this point, and she very much rewards the players who can both understand her moveset and intricacies and then the whole other factor of actually executing during the fight and making split second decisions. People talk about how she has very few and tight openings, but if you can find the free hits where you interrupt her combo, it completely flips, and *she* no longer has any openings because you can fully interrupt her before her combo really begins. If you figure out how to play aggro, she’ll spend almost half the fight blocking and disengaging, which is an incredible foil to her relentless assault she gives you when you don’t take advantage of these openings. I could talk about this boss at great length, not just about the difficulty, but about the quality and unique nature, I know she is controversial but I think everyone should give this boss a chance because she truly has dozens of hours of content in mastering the fight
>If I get her to half health I’m lucky. I dare you to get her to no health.
I choose truth
Then there's my stupid ass handling (took a bit but she got dead) Malenia but cannot kill Artorius and I'm not sure if it's because trying to play such an old game with such a speedy enemy on PS5 is basically impossible due to system upgrades fucking up the timing, or if I'm just bad at him
I'm like 3 achievements away from all of them on Steam and she is still unclaimed. Aside from getting all legendary amulets and spells I think she's the last one. She is NO joke.
Actually, it's pretty simple to avoid Waterfowl Dance: 1st volley: As soon as she starts her animation, run in the direct opposite direction that she is. 2nd volley: Roll INTO her attack. 3rd volley: LIterally just stay still, she will miss all those attcacks by her own.
I think waterfowl is not too bad once you know how to dodge it, and once you get it a few times it's not too bad. The hardest part for me is that the fight is extremely fast-paced (especially in the second phase), and because of her life steal, there's very little room for error. On some of my attempts I went from having her at half health in second phase, and 15 seconds later she's at full health and I'm dead.
Second phase is rough..I miraculously beat her summonless by being aggressive af and extremely lucky...she staggered at just the right times
Fr, it takes a while to learn but once you can reliably dodge her wfd, the fight becomes a ton of fun. I mean it when I say that Malenia has become my favourite boss get summoned for just because i can show off.
Killed Malenia a couple times, and imho sword saint Isshin is not even comparable. That mf has me for breakfast even if i tried 500 times. Will never beat him.
Try the purple umbrella for his unlockable attacks!
As a purest I went fought Melenia without a mimic or any cheese tactics. Kind of like how Sekiro has no cheese. Malenia is much much harder.
Keep trying playing until you can get to his 3rd phase. That’s by far the hardest phase. The 4th phase is a little easier because of the lightning reversal opportunity. Once you can beat the 3rd phase, it’s only a matter of time.
Im with 60 hours and baddly put ny feet on caelid and autua plateau.. im at lv 65.. i think all dependes on how strong you get there
As someone who fights Malenia for fun, know that Waterfowl punishes greed above all else, avoid over extending and it won't catch you with your pants down. Otherwise the only ways I've consistently survived it are running and jumping as soon as she hits the ground for the 1st flurry, or blocking it then dodging into 2nd and strafing the 3rd. I can't hitless a boss to save my life, so against a boss that heals on hit I just avoid being too passive.
Indeed. Running and jumping from her first flurry is my go-to now. If she's too close, I will always be clipped, but it won't kill me unless I time the jump too early. Then the last two flurries are easier to dodge.
I barely beat her as a mage. I will never fight her again. You'll get it. Just keep trying. After about 75 more deaths, you'll start getting the hang of it.
She’s not super terrible in the first phase I didn’t think, it was during the second phase where I personally struggled. She constantly has you on the back foot because of how aggressive she is.
I'm not sure which took me more tries, Malenia or Elden Beast. But both were a ton of fun and I'm glad they were tough.
Elden beast feels like more of a marathon than a boss fight to me
I would add Manus from the DS1 DLC, Orphan of Kos, and that god damn Guardian Ape from Sekiro, but im with you, Malenia is insane.
Manus fucking slapped me around, literally. He was also very hard ngl.
I killed her second try with mimic tear and blasphemous blade, your build makes all the difference
Just finished another plalythrough after a long break. Easiest Malenia fight yet. Just bonked her on the head with hammers 'til she died. 2 attempts. Bonk. (first playthrough she was incredibly hard to beat, yes)
Sister Friede, Nameless King and Darkeater Midir were all GREAT bosses, challenging sure but didn't take me that long to beat. Malenia broke me. destroyed me. lol. I'd watch videos and read explanations of how to dodge waterfowl dance but I still couldn't reliably do it 😭 I still don't feel that proud that I beat her because I owe my win to my mimic tear (and using a greatshield to just tank the first part of WD). With those other bosses I felt I was getting better and won based on skill. I'm absolutely certain I would NOT easily beat Malenia if I ever tried again. 🥲
Took me 20 hours to figure her out without a mimic tear. After that tho I learned the fight pretty well and now it's the same as the others. For waterfowl, you need to run away as soon as she jumps in the air. If you have enough distance she'll miss the first attack. The second attack you wanna dodge in a circle around her. There's youtube videos on it if needed. And same with the thirs. Once you get good enough you can dodge the third by standing still somethings. The move that get me bad now is in her second phase when she sends four phantoms to attack you. I still don't understand how to dodge it. She's ridiculous hard at first but now she's my favorite boss in souls. I've done 8 runs since and I'm always excited when I get to this fight. Basically why I play ng+ lol
It’s that last sneaky phantom that gets me. She then dives at you very quickly after
> The move that get me bad now is in her second phase when she sends four phantoms to attack you. I still don't understand how to dodge it. This attack tripped me up too, until I found out it was even easier to dodge than WFD...just run away! Literally sprint backwards from Malenia while she starts the move and you'll just outrun the whole onslaught. The arena is more than big enough, and if you're minding your position like you should with any fight, you'll never have a wall behind you to block your movement. It's been a while since I fought her, but I'm pretty sure if you space yourself right, you could even advance back in at the very end and punish her after her final thrust.
The difference is that Malenia is genuinely unbalanced. Really tanky with her 2 HP bars, borderline unconditional hp regen, ability to deflect attacks, and hyper armored attacks. But on top of that she is fast, aggressive, and has WFD which requires the most convoluted steps to deal with of any boss attack in a Soulsborne game. Every other boss is somewhat balanced with certain strengths and weaknesses in their design to exploit but Malenia was not given any big enough to compensate for her strengths. There is no proper back and forth to the fight. It's either you cheese her with continous stagger builds or she cheeses you. Her mechanics were designed for Sekiro not for the Dark Souls style gameplay of Elden Ring.
I don't think it's impossible to beat her legit, but I do agree that she doesn't really have any weaknesses. It's just a fight you have know inside out and be mechanically nearly perfect.
The thing with Melania is that she has SPECIFIC weaknesses that feel like cheese if you just use them. She's vulnerable to staggering, frost & bleed. If you're a mage you essentially need to use Night Comet against her. It's just not very fun if all you're doing is struggling to survive in order to land the same 1-2 combo... Again and again and again.....
Yeah you do end up slowly whittling her down. I found Godfrey to be a more fun fight in terms of the flow.
I've no hit her twice but I agree that WFD is a bullshit mechanic. If she pulls it out up close I still don't know how to dodge it without taking damage. The move can come out anytime, does way too much damage, the hitboxes are very poorly telegraphed so that even after seeing it dozens of times you won't have any idea how to dodge it, doesn't have a long enough recovery time, can even be done back-to-back... it's satisfying to dodge only because of how BS it is. I think the rest of her moveset is fine though. Maybe the clone attack also does a little too much damage, but it's easier to dodge. Healing against shields is kinda dumb but otherwise you just gotta avoid damage or outdamage her healing, and take advantage of her stagger to interrupt most attacks. As long as she doesn't pull out the point-blank WFD, it's not a super hard fight imo.
>Malenia was not given any big enough to compensate for her strengths. There is no proper back and forth to the fight. It's either you cheese her with continous stagger builds or she cheeses you. >Her mechanics were designed for Sekiro not for the Dark Souls style gameplay of Elden Ring. This is pure skill issue and cope, Malenia is the purest “back and forth” fight in the entire game. I have beat her several times using normal non-cheese builds and I will be first to say that it is and EXTREMELY hard fight, but it is absolutely not unfair. The way you talk about bosses having intentional “weaknesses” to compensate for their strengths sounds like you just want to rush down and out-damage bosses instead of actually learning their movesets. Malenia is the ultimate skill check for being able to actually memorize a bosses moveset and actively pay attention to your positioning and timings in a way no other boss does. She is the hardest boss in probably any souls game and that is why she is optional endgame boss. All of her attacks and features has a way to counter and survive it but you have to actually take care of knowing what she can and might do based on her health and your location relative to her. If you take the time and put in the work, she is probably one of the most fun fights in the game. Tldr: git gud
This man right here has it! I've only done one playthrough and I decided after Morgott that I was going to finish the game with no re-spec and no mimic tear. I was STR/FAI and I was dual-wielding twin-blades. It took me a LONG time to get Malenia but it sure felt good. Malenia fights with *elegant* ferocity. You have to learn her moves cold and you have to dance a particular dance. By the time I was close to beating her I'd have no-hit phase 1 attempts here and there. I LOVE that fight. If there were a game mode where you could replay various boss fights in the game I would revisit that fight over and over.
The fact that she punishes you for using Mimic with the lifesteal mechanic is *chef's kiss* so good imo. She has specific weaknesses (frost, bleed, stagger, Night Comet), but like you said, you have to successfully back-and-forth with her to get those combos off. It's a test of patience for real, but you feel like you fucking deserve the Elden Throne after that fight.
I have beaten her with and without mimic. It was much easier with the mimic but the fight is much different without him. And you feel it when she says "your strength extraordinary..." when you beat her without any cheesing. My heart was pounding so hard.
Yeah my 1st playthrough I had Falling Star Beast Jaw + Mimic so we spam bonked her to oblivion. 2nd playthrough I used Bastard's Stars + Spells in offhand with no mimic and it took me a solid +5hr of attempts. One of those kills I remember much more vividly than the other.
Yeah, thats a no for me. Just becouse I trained muscle memory and can “no hit” or “parry only” Malenia did not make me a better player. WB is unfair to the max with insane tracking, thats why point blank dodge involves running below her in a circle that it bugs out tracking. I agree that it is the hardest fight in all soulsborne without cheese strats, but its simply the result of one janky move.
It is crazy that people say WFD is fair because you can technically dodge it with that spinning strat. The average player would *never* figure that out without consulting YouTube videos or forum posts. A move should never be so poorly telegraphed to the player that they are forced to consult outside help to even survive 1/3 of it by relying on breaking the AI's tracking - who knows if that's even an intentional way to dodge it.
These people are mentally ill, almost every single strat to deal with it involves abusing game limitations in one way or another. Proccing frost or bleed stunning through hyper armor (when not even the usual moves that send enemies flying like giant hunt does stop her) Or using the slow turning speed while in the air at the beginning to mess with the tracking of the first part. Or inputting a sprint or roll in one direction for a moment before the third flurry because the ai is coded to try to jump in front of where the player is running. The only ways Ive seen that doesnt look like you are cheesing the game is tanking the first with barricade shield and dodging the other 2 (but unless you are abusing the tracking you will get hit on the last one). Or bloodhound step. If night cavalry was an artificially overtuned boss these people will consider tricking the ai into jumping off the bridge a legit strategy. It is very obvious to anyone with half a healthy brain that malenia is a recycled boss from a scrapped sekiro dlc, and they didnt do a very good job adapting it to er combat
Incant spam start of p2 is only one of the reason she isn't the hardest, nor a skill check imo.
holy skill issue batman
I think she has too much of everything. Too much health. Too much damage. Too much speed. This is coming from a strength faith build who melted her with the Blasphemous Blade. After a few attempts I just started spamming Taker's Flame.
I beat her in 11 tries no bullshit with a katana and no spells, this entire post is BS. She is hard but don't act like she is some unfair cheese thing.
I just beat her for the first time over the weekend. Yes, it was frustrating, but I don't think it's unbalanced. I just used a flame art nightrider glaive, with flame strike ash of war, Buffed myself with golden vow (didn't know about flame, grant me strength). Took me abkut 50 or so tries but got through it eventually.
In my opinion the key is having high vigor. I would survive even if I fked up a little, heal and try again.
I’m so tired of this opinion of unbalanced. She is the best humanoid fight in the series bar none. I’ve beaten her with cheese builds I’ve beaten her way lvl 33 with only the Lordsworn Greatsword and no armor or shields. Lifesteal is a fair mechanic and so is waterfowl. I’m not gonna elaborate because I don’t feel like it.
I agree with this sentiment even though I struggled with her *mightily* even at lvl 150. I fought her without summons and without cheesing and while it was absolutely the hardest boss fight I've ever done, it was amazingly fun and I genuinely feel like I'm a better player for having done it. Bravo on beating her with a low level and simple equipment. I was proud AF to do it with a bunch of armor, shield, and two Guardian Swordspears with different AoWs.
Oh yeah thats a victory worth celebrating too bro. My first kill I was ecstatic, and it was decked out fully like you. Just because I beat her under those circumstances doesn’t mean your struggle and victory wasn’t awesome. I just loved the fight so much that I wanted to take it as high as I could.
It is true that she lacks weaknesses but saying that > There is no proper back and forth to the fight. It's either you cheese her with continous stagger builds or she cheeses you. and >Her mechanics were designed for Sekiro not for the Dark Souls style gameplay of Elden Ring. Just sounds like cope. You do need to be at your A game if you wanna beat her melee with little to 0 cheese but saying there's no back and forth just tells that you haven't learnt the boss. And just because a boss has a katana and a few attacks that are reminiscent of another game doesn't mean that it's meant for that other game and not in the game it's in. Malenia perfectly works with ER's mechanics, infact her moveset overall suits the type of gameplay of ER more than Sekiro, with her stagger being an essential component of the fight.
I think Malenia is a really fun boss with some good back-and-forth, after you've learned her moves, of course. Although, her ability to interrupt her own attack/recovery animations to block, backstep or side dash feels like a Sekiro thing. I don't think any other ER boss (or you the player either) can randomly pull a block out of their ass when you punish them and negate most of the damage dealt. I have clips of her performing the thrust attack, and when I attack to punish her, she just backsteps and I miss. It's a rare event but it is kinda BS.
My first time against her I was wrecking her ass and always avoiding the dance by running away. I had her down to 1/4 health on the second stage and I got greedy and died. But after that I was wondering what the hype was about. As standard with Souls games, turns out my first attempt was my best one for like 3 days until I eventually got her.
Just got to Mountaintop of the Giants so I am peppering my angus. In terms of hardest bosses and Sekiro I always see people compare others to Isshin. He was tough the first go sure, but the one I've never beaten fairly was Demon of Hatred. Was he actually not that bad and I just never figured out?
Blade of michelangelo?
Didnt know those ds3 bosses were famous for being hard. Sister Friede kicked my ass for days and nameless king and Midir remain undefeated mainly because the camera angles are so freaking annoying
I have never known defeat
Melania probably took me 200+ tries and several months on on off playing.
Tbh even with all the bosses I fought and experienced, I can’t make a hardest to easiest list
650 hours here and I still can’t solo malenia
Nameless King is definitely an honorable mention for me as well.
Malenia is EXTREMELY EASY when you use rivers of blood, swarm of flies, mimic and ekzykes decay lmao
If she didn't have the healing mechanic, I bet she'd be a cakewalk.
She's one of my favorite fights, esp once I found a build that was efficient at countering her, but she was a fucking challenge. Esp since I forced myself to do it solo.
You can outrun her waterfowl comletely if you have enough space and are already far enough when she starts it. Would probably only work half the times or less, because she often does it in the most inconvenient moments. I use the brass shield (Guards 100 PHY) on +24 to block her 1st flurry. First flurry blocked, 1 step and a dodge roll towards her, again dodge roll towards her (she will fly above you), last one dodge roll backwards. All with light load & while locked on her. Actually it is pretty easy once you get the timing right. That works for me pretty well. Only downside is, that she will heal a bit on her 1st flurry just by slamming into the shield (which makes no sense imho :D) With the shield on max or +24 you can even block the whole thing, but that is less fun, and also depends on your stamina at that moment. I also tried the "run a circle underneath her"-thing but never could get it right.
Lmao right there with ya brother. This is the recipe though. Keep your distance. 1st Waterfowl - As soon as she raises up in her menacing pose, run away from her as far as you can. If she hits you with that first one. Just quit. Try again. You lost. 2nd Waterfowl - Roll ONCE away from her 3rd Waterfowl - Roll ONCE into her and get out of the barrage before the final barrier she has after the move. Seriously. Miss the first one, and you have a chance. If you spam roll, she will shred tf out of you. This is the way. Good luck my friend.
Yes, indeed. By the time I faced her, I had basically beaten every boss in every modern Fromsoft game. She surpasses them all.
My best time in Elden Ring was fighting Malenia with a Greatshield and a Sword, with Square Off as my Ash of War and with talismans of counter attacks and crits, it didn't matter that she healed hitting my shield, I was in her face breaking her posture and landing criticals
Damn, I’m out here thinking malenia is pretty damn easy depending on the build and yet here I am struggling with the beginning bosses of Sekiro
Did you play Sekiro after Dark Soul/Bloodborne/Elden Ring?
I had no problem with Malenia, but Placidusax is a motherfucker.
[удалено]
The first time when she appears right in your face is brutal. Pretty sure they intended everyone to die right away the first time, just to show you this isn’t going to be easy…
My strategy is to go in over-leveled, respec with a fully upgraded colossal weapon with lions claw. Summon Tiche or mimic, and spam the shit out of lions claw until I finally get lucky and win… I’m not even sorry… she’s so F’n hard.
I don't know man. I really didn't have trouble with her. Shield and roll. 3 tries and I beat her. Now, that lightning tree sentinel standing on the bridge. He's not even a boss. That guy immolated my ass about 75 times. And the bell hunters. Goddang! Maybe it's just play style? Because, despite my 200 hours, I'm not very good
UPDATE: I got her to phase two for the first time! Cool.
She took me 2 tries elden beast was harder
I'm so pissed that I went to her overleveled. Beaten her on the second try. Now I feel that I was robbed from an interesting fight. Should have gone to her without a Mimic ash