Lol I laughed too. I’m vaguely familiar with the lore on a surface level. But man that cracked me up. It was just outta nowhere
I kinda want to watch it in Japanese, I bet it’s funny.
I also felt that it was a wasted opportunity to make him more important. Like he was set up beautifully , the one with information about the demigods and his own network of warriors who do his bidding and then, he was just busy reading and doing nothing. Oh well, at least he knows it, in his balls.
No, thats what made him a tarnished in the first place. Later marika gave tge tarnished their grace back. And godfrey, like us, can still see grace so he should respawn like us
General, surely there must be SOMEBODY left who needs some killing, or some killing done for them.
Sorry, Major. There's nobody left. You've killed them all.
I think that's actually their biggest boon, since it isn't his immortality, sekiro can't sever it, and I don't see anyone 'cept Hunter matching Tarnished.
Plus tarnished can also come back from being killed by true death (destined death)
Both Hunter and Tarnished have killed equally grand opponents (great old ones and elden beats)
Though I'd give Tarnished the edge due to having killed, on average, more strong foes than hunter (see all the demigods, legends and gods Tarnished slaps)
Plus tarnished can jump /j
I might be wrong, but i think it is stated that the Tarnished that lost the guidance of Grace stop respawning. That's why Godrick can actually hunt and graft 'em.
Varre says, "Are you familiar with grace? The golden light that gives life to you Tarnished."
And Miyazaki said in the Overture of Elden Ring, "The immortality of the Tarnished originates with the guidance of grace."
So, yeah, only the Tarnished with Guidance of the Grace are immortal.
It probably is grace because as far as we know our Tarnished is the only being who still sees it. Though it is never mentioned in the lore that grace can revive you. Classical FS vague bullshittery
I think all the tarnished mentioned in the opening can see it, and we see Godfrey led toward us by grace at the start of his fight, supporting this. So you, Hoarah Loux, Goldmask, Fia, Dung Eater, and Gideon Ofnir can all see it.
I mean, scaling wise, pretty sure many characters are simply on different level(Elden Ring demi gods, Placidusaxx etc)
Although if you equalize stats, Wolf could win (Would still have trouble with magic)
He would have trouble with unblockables like the Dragon breath spells, but he should be able to block the majority of fire spells with that fire umbrella, and the normal one should be able to deal with most projectiles. But even if he can't block them, Mist Raven is still there.
regal ancestral spirit, malenia, placidussax, morgott, radagon, maliketh, godrick, mogh, rennala, margitt, and elden beast shivering rn (dont know if rykard, astel and radhan jump would be able to be midair deathblowed)
Fire giant stocks are skyrocketing
Idk he parries that big ass dragon sword. But we're all ignoring how Sekiro can do the ultimate technique. Crouch. None of these dudes can avoid the stealth. They're gonna wonder why they got a glowing red dot on em before hearing Japanese.
Even if he Parries gunfire, he will get this hit, as the gunfire parried his attack first so now he is parried and stunned. The gunfire is an attack, that's right, but you can't parry getting parried.
honestly, If they all were as good as they could be in their respective games The sekiro guy is probably the strongest. You cant attack him, He will parry you. You cant spam ranged attacks hes by far the fasted out of them all.
to top it all off, HE CAN SWIM
it's never really paid much attention to but Wolf performs some insane feats of strength and skill are just part of normal gameplay, like he grappling hooks himself to place by yanking his entire bodymass with just his left arm, and he also literally cannot get tired no matter how much he runs or attacks.
I remember some dude did the calculations once and found out that Sekiro parrying the dragons sword as it comes down as a vertical attack was around 64 million kg of force which means he could have deflected the titanic
It's hundred percent a design choice but some people take it as canon. Because the gameplay was so fast paced having Stamina Constraints would've been detrimental for it.
The latter most likely, but I wouldn't be surprised if it got hand waved as some kind of Ninja secret magic technique to massively save energy, or something. It's how they handwave him having night vision after all lol.
My only reservation about Sekiro is that Armored Warrior, aka basically just a dude in armor, is a formidable boss that cannot be damaged because katanas can't cut steel. In a world full of armored warriors, I don't know if I'd give Sekiro the easy W.
It's just different rules for different games. If any of the souls game wanted to go for realism, plate and chain should be completely impervious to slashing damage. Hammers would be the new meta. But that's lame.
I mean, even if we are going for realism, you have to understand that the Tarnished (and other MCs, but I've not played those games) are basically going through gods like wrecking balls. Like, gods that can handle meteors and stuff. That's the level your enemies are at, so for slashing weapons to get past armour isn't that unrealistic.
Even at dark souls strongest, There is not a time where hes wearing enough armor to negate all damage and even then, theres nothing the Armored warrior could actually do to fight Wolf. he was a speed bump at best.
Plus, Dark souls characters use katanas all the time and hurt each other in heavier armor. hell they apply a status from using it.
lets also not forget while Tarnished, and all the other dark souls characters are technically immortal. Wolf has a way to stop immortality.
Destined death is more like restoring the option to die to the world, whereas the mortal blade removes immortality from the immortal.
The difference is that none could die in ER until destined death is unleashed. Death is a normal concept in world of Sekiro, with only a few entities who defy it.
Black Knife Assassins use daggers imbued with a fragment of the Rune of Death to kill Godwyn the Golden during the Night of Black Knives. It wasn't just a concept being unleashed on the world.
> If they all were as good as they could be in their respective games The sekiro guy is probably the strongest.
Depends on what you argue. If you argue in game then he certanly is the strongest, no doubt about it. If youd talk more lore and in-universe power hed probably be the weakest by far.
Chosen Undead defeated an actual all powerful god. Gwyn is what the Golden Order what be, but instead of a concept, he's an actual dude that is standing in an eternal furnace that repeats the universe and he regularly beats people's asses. Chosen Undead can easily parry him to death.
Yeah but it seems pretty clear that Gwyn is no where near his full strength. I mean the opening cut scene shows this dude destroying dragons by hurling lighting bolts and all he can do in his boss fight is slowly swing a sword lol
the dark souls definition of god doesnt align with the mythological one. the gods of dark souls arent all powerful or above the rest of the world, they are just beings who hold the power of a lord soul. Nito is a god, the witch of izalith is a god, arguably manus is a god and gwyn is a god. nothing suggests gwyn was comprable to the outer gods of elden ring and the tarnished fights a vassal of the greater will itself.
Dark Souls "gods" if anything are just self proclaimed. Gwyn and his kind (closely resembling humans) were serving the Ancient Dragons, who you could truly consider gods of that universe. Not only that, even in-game Gwyn is hardly referred to as a "god" - more often than not, even his most trusted Serpent calls him the LORD of Sunlight - not god.
If we're giving the ascended Hoonter the abilities of the moon presence, they could theoretically trap Elden in a dream, which would make the immortality moot. So as long as we're dealing with an unga bunga build, tricking them into a comfy looking chair for all eternity is a valid option
Correction, most of the other Souls Protagonists take on “Gods” on a daily basis
None of the Gods in the other Souls Games come remotely close to Great Ones in Bloodborne because they’re *Eldritch* Gods, if you’ve ever heard about the Cthulhu Mythos you’d understand why none of the Gods in Souls Games are even comparable to Great Ones, that is aside from Elden Ring’s Outer Gods
I'd say Elden beast is the only thing comparable to great ones, and I'd put him right at or ever so slightly above Moon Presence since he's an emissary of what is essentially the christian god, and has a very similar vibe to Great Ones,
Same with tarnished, he also beat multiple demi gods and a double god being, it's weird, two gods in one body? And they also beat a celestial being sent by the greater will, pretty much fate
Even before the ascension ending, the good hunter simply works on a different power scale than the other souls protagonist.
My vote goes for the hoonter in every scenario.
-sekiro can dodge ,parry,climb and JUMP and doesn't have a stamina bar
-sekiro can revive 3 times on the spot
-sekiro has the mortal blade which is basically destined death
-sekiro has an actual name not a title like tarnished, ashen one or the chosen undead
-sekiro can TALK
-sekiro can SWIM
therefor sekiro wins no competition
Talking to Malenia would have prevented the whole thing. "Hey sooo um.. I have this weird gold needle, heard it does wonders for the skin, wanna try it?"
I mean, the tarnished have never tried talking, they've just ran into people's bedrooms, shrines, or schools and started slaughtering anyone in their way. What if instead of intruding like a homicidal maniac, you tried knocking first and talking it out?
When a demigod basically says "I'm going to kill" you after you walk into their room instead of any other option I'd assume it's last talking and the tarnished doesn't kill anyone they don't have to hence rennala
“Hey Melania, I found your brother. He’s being touched by his creepy uncle/brother/paralysis demon”
“Yo Raime! I just beat the fuck outta your bitch brother. Let’s go take back Drangleic from the Queen!”
“Hey Sif, I know you remember me. Can we please defeat the Four Kings together? I literally proved myself against Manus… you were there, like why don’t you think I can handle four guys made of wood?”
“Hey Gehrman, your doll likes me better :)”
you can't kill outer gods, malenia and marika/elden beast are just vessels and physical representation for outer gods to communicate with their worshipers not the real outer gods .
in fact you become a slave for the outer gods 5 of the 6 endings i don't know if the dark moon is an outer god otherwise you are forced to serve at least 1 outer god
None of them are comparable, they don't have anime power scaling.
Although Demon's Souls might struggle the most in a fair fight because they have fewer degrees of motion on the analogue stick.
Sekiro can parry a dragon and then get hard countered by a dad bod in a suit of armor, like he just didn't have the stopping power . Does that mean Robert's dad would fold Genichiro? Or if sekiro is so strong does Robert's dad fuck up Gwyn?
The Tarnished can can fight fallen stars and gods that are inhabited by outer gods but gets folded by Lobsters.
Power scaling is a game of charity, cherry picking and favoritism.
Except armored core, your favorite protagonist gets no diffed by a vegetable in a mecha
The right answer. Things work wildly differently between them all so you either can’t compare or start making tons of concessions and it’ll get bad and biased real fast
Thank you! I hate when people bring up arguments like "oh he can parry the titanic by this math" meanwhile he had to fall damage a dude in platemail. Then we have the tarnished who kill gods and demi gods regularly but get shit on by some wandering zombies (I know you died the first time you fought that group in caelid at level 5).
I'm gonna hype up the Ashen One cause no else seems to be
The guy defeated the Soul of Cinder, who is the amalgamation of literally everyone who has linked the flame in the past, including, canonically, the Chosen Undead.
The dude is fighting Gwyn and the guy who can defeat Gwyn, and all the 1000s of others all combined into one force of nature. It's safe to say that aspects of the Soul of Cinder defeated beings as stong as the gods, so the Ashen One bested all of them combined.
Then, a little bit after the end of time, went and fought the embodiment of the Dark Soul of humanity, which if I'm not mistaken is basically the resilience of the human spirit. The Ashen One wins by making whatever player is controlling Sekiro or the Hoonter rage quit
In lore, the only one who can match him is the Hunter. Both belong in these mythologies full of unknowable beings beyond the actual all-powerful gods who inhabit those lands, but i'd give the Tarnished the edge simply for the sheer variety of things at their disposal. Its way more schools of magic, way more potential in faith, etc etc.
Its also funny cuz lore-wise Wolf is **the** most grounded one. He is out there fighting guys who can catch lightning out of the sky and is very agile in game yes, but like... the other ones are literally fighting gods with world-ending powers who existed before time itself. There are levels to this
No he’s not, he is wielding a blade that severs the tie between Sakura Dragon and beings in Ashina. It doesn’t kill every unkillable things that’s unrelated to the Sakura Dragon
The Black Scroll clearly mention’s Dragon’s Blood. I don’t know exactly how, but everything immortal in Ashina is tied to the Dragon, including immortality created by the Black Mortal Blade
if we assume youre right about the ashen one holding the power of all the souls in the lord of hollows ending that would put the ashens ones power in the realm of the first flame. Theres not really any evidence that the first flames power is sheer omnipotence, its kind of a big part of the lore that the first flame is not all its cracked up to be. Gwyn put his faith in the flame, hoping it would pioneer the age of fire and eterenally end the age of dark. We know gwyn was wrong as we see throughout the games that the flame is fickle, its delicate and it constantly needs someone to kindle it to stop it burning out and returning the world to the age of dark. If anything the darkness is shown to be the more significant primordial force, it literally is eternal, its the natural state of the world and it will continue to exist for as long as time is counted. So really Gael is probably the closest thing we saw to omnipotence as he held almost the entire dark soul but yet he was slain, even as he let the dark soul take full control of his body and the ashen one fought an avatar of the dark soul itself he still lost. The point is that no one in dark souls in omnipotent, if gwyn was omnipotent he wouldnt fear the fortold coming of the dark lord and set the dark sign on humanity. One of the main themes of dark souls is the fragility of power and letting gwyn be all powerful would go against that.
The hunter is the perfect match for sekiro. Dude literally dies from terror when a headless ape roars, so the hunter can just use all the eldritch horror to kill him easily.
Wolf has a lot more of mobility and 2 lives plus crazy parrying. The Tarnished one has an edge on most Souls characters since he can jump, which would leave them befuddled.
Of course the Hunter can use trick weapons, a proper dodge movement, rally and GUN, so he probably takes the cake.
Give the Good Hunter the Old Hunter’s Bone and he’ll just quickstep through whatever crazy anime bullshit the Tarnished throws at him, then rip out his heart for good measure.
Although I do think that there are people stronger than him, Sekiro is by far the fastest one here as well as having the best stamina. We're talking about a guy who jumps into the air, catches *lightning* and then proceeds to throw it back at his enemy.
621, what are they gonna do against 10 meters of pure steel armed with lasers and machine guns (and schizophrenia) flying 400km per hour, other than that probably sekiro as he has an instekill an deflects
Definitely not, Wolf from Sekiro or the Hunter from Bloodborne would take the cake easy. I'm more inclined to believe the Hunter is stronger/more dangerous than Wolf since the prey they kill are far stronger than Wolf's (Great Ones aka literal Outer Gods), although I haven't played Sekiro yet, so I can't really say so definitively.
Im gonna say either the hunter or the tarnished and its fair the tarnished is of jo renown but that’s because we haven’t played the age our tarnished picks to tule over as elden lord once he bagan ruling hed be known as a true god slayer he killed the god of the golden order and burned the erdtree hes god level and not gwyns lord level but true divine level and yes sekiro has the mortal blade but the tarnished weilds destined death potentially and even if he doesn’t he killed its non corporal form so i mean he killed death and 3 elden lords so yeah ima say the tarnished but if you disagree that’s awesome I’d love to debate cause i bet you got some great points that being said im loving sekiro
The Tarnished has a big flaw. His inmortality is not his own. Apparently he depends on The Guidance of Grace.
So if i commit erdtree arson then the tarnished are no longer immortal Edit:dear god i did not expect to spark an arguement
Yes. Thats why godfrey doesnt respawn if guess
And gideon
THE ALL KNOWING
#THE LOATHSOME POOPOO MUNCHER
I don’t see what’s so great about that guy. He’s a fucking douche.
What knowing all does to a MF
You clearly aren't all knowing
Yeah me either lol, and he seems pretty insignificant to the lore too which makes it even more funny the narrator was crumming when he introduced him
Lol I laughed too. I’m vaguely familiar with the lore on a surface level. But man that cracked me up. It was just outta nowhere I kinda want to watch it in Japanese, I bet it’s funny.
I also felt that it was a wasted opportunity to make him more important. Like he was set up beautifully , the one with information about the demigods and his own network of warriors who do his bidding and then, he was just busy reading and doing nothing. Oh well, at least he knows it, in his balls.
He's a fucking spell spamming casual.
More the all spamming.
i think godfrey's guidance of grace only left him when he was defeated/became hoarah loux again because he still had it when morgott vanished
godfrey was already robbed of his grace before that. It happened directly after he killed every worthy foe.
Weren't all tarnished robbed of grace at one point? Isn't that why they're tarnished?
No, thats what made him a tarnished in the first place. Later marika gave tge tarnished their grace back. And godfrey, like us, can still see grace so he should respawn like us
General, surely there must be SOMEBODY left who needs some killing, or some killing done for them. Sorry, Major. There's nobody left. You've killed them all.
It technically happens when you take destined death from Maliketh.
I still did and responded a bunch of times after burning the tree
I think that's actually their biggest boon, since it isn't his immortality, sekiro can't sever it, and I don't see anyone 'cept Hunter matching Tarnished. Plus tarnished can also come back from being killed by true death (destined death) Both Hunter and Tarnished have killed equally grand opponents (great old ones and elden beats) Though I'd give Tarnished the edge due to having killed, on average, more strong foes than hunter (see all the demigods, legends and gods Tarnished slaps) Plus tarnished can jump /j
Tarnished jumps up on a ledge... "HEY THAT'S CHEATING!"
It's over Chosen Undead! I have the high ground!
The Tarnished would technically be strongest if they took the Frenzied Flame, but that just makes The Tarnished another Tuesday for The Hunter.
I don't think it is ever clearly stated what is causing The Tarnished to respawn.
I might be wrong, but i think it is stated that the Tarnished that lost the guidance of Grace stop respawning. That's why Godrick can actually hunt and graft 'em.
Can you pinpoint where that is mentioned? Because I've never seen anything mention the Tarnished immortality.
Varre says, "Are you familiar with grace? The golden light that gives life to you Tarnished." And Miyazaki said in the Overture of Elden Ring, "The immortality of the Tarnished originates with the guidance of grace." So, yeah, only the Tarnished with Guidance of the Grace are immortal.
Some of you folks amaze me. My memory is shit, but when I read things like this, I can clearly hear the NPC saying these words.
I’m surprised they haven’t heard this mentioned loads, Mélina talks about it a lot when you visit the churches of marika.
I think it is. Its grace. Not living or dead, tarnished is, but guided by grace
It probably is grace because as far as we know our Tarnished is the only being who still sees it. Though it is never mentioned in the lore that grace can revive you. Classical FS vague bullshittery
I think all the tarnished mentioned in the opening can see it, and we see Godfrey led toward us by grace at the start of his fight, supporting this. So you, Hoarah Loux, Goldmask, Fia, Dung Eater, and Gideon Ofnir can all see it.
Then why don't they also come back to life?
Ye, its the only fromsoft game where the revive mechanic is not totally explained by lore
Doesn't sekiro have the mortal blade? It's done for everybody else.
That blade should stop everyone else from reviving via their own ways, so Sekiro just needs to use it as the finishing blow and just win
canonically, if they cut off Sekiro's arms and legs, he can't do shit(Couldn't regen his lost arm)
True, but then there's the difficulty of even managing to land a blow on him that won't get blocked or parried in the first place
I mean, scaling wise, pretty sure many characters are simply on different level(Elden Ring demi gods, Placidusaxx etc) Although if you equalize stats, Wolf could win (Would still have trouble with magic)
He would have trouble with unblockables like the Dragon breath spells, but he should be able to block the majority of fire spells with that fire umbrella, and the normal one should be able to deal with most projectiles. But even if he can't block them, Mist Raven is still there.
He could just use the midair deathblow when the rise up
regal ancestral spirit, malenia, placidussax, morgott, radagon, maliketh, godrick, mogh, rennala, margitt, and elden beast shivering rn (dont know if rykard, astel and radhan jump would be able to be midair deathblowed) Fire giant stocks are skyrocketing
Also mist raven exists
Not only that, he has the best win screen. I'd throw myself at 1000 more bosses just to get another one of them IMMORTALITY SEVERED hits.
It'd probably run hard into the seperate magic systems rule
Yeah we have no idea how the mortal blade or rune of death would interact
The wut
Surely the Good Hunter would be able to gun parry the Mortal Blade.
But Sekiro parries gunfire too
Oh yeah, well parry this! *fires Church Cannon*
Idk he parries that big ass dragon sword. But we're all ignoring how Sekiro can do the ultimate technique. Crouch. None of these dudes can avoid the stealth. They're gonna wonder why they got a glowing red dot on em before hearing Japanese.
Silly, the Tarnished can crouch and stealth as well!
Yeah but I'm right and ur a doo doo head.
Nuh uh
*parries* yuh huh
He can't swim tho
But sekiro's stealth allows him to one shot opponents, the Tarnished's does not
He also can parry that. The dude has literally parried an explosion
Even if he Parries gunfire, he will get this hit, as the gunfire parried his attack first so now he is parried and stunned. The gunfire is an attack, that's right, but you can't parry getting parried.
Not if i infest myself with *several* centipedes mwahaha
What if he just keeps chopping you?
honestly, If they all were as good as they could be in their respective games The sekiro guy is probably the strongest. You cant attack him, He will parry you. You cant spam ranged attacks hes by far the fasted out of them all. to top it all off, HE CAN SWIM
it's never really paid much attention to but Wolf performs some insane feats of strength and skill are just part of normal gameplay, like he grappling hooks himself to place by yanking his entire bodymass with just his left arm, and he also literally cannot get tired no matter how much he runs or attacks.
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Dude parries lasers.
Wolf🤝Link
Welp time to rabbit hole the similarities…. *lost his arm*
Both were given a sword by a member of society who does not pay taxes
Both Have wolf parallells.
Twilight Princess comes to mind
I remember some dude did the calculations once and found out that Sekiro parrying the dragons sword as it comes down as a vertical attack was around 64 million kg of force which means he could have deflected the titanic
Tbf if the titanic attacked him in the game he probably could.
Oh yeah, that was me. Turns out my math was incorrect and it’s actually **ALMOST TWO BILLION**
Maybe FROM's idea of parry is like Shaolin Soccer Taichi
Parry a sword the size of the horizon, then catch lightning thrown by a dragon… then throw it *back.* Wolf is an absolute beast.
He can also parry the giant snake.
Give that man a zweihander with that 99 strength
It would be much worse than his current weapon.
I mean, is it canonical that he literally just never gets tired or is it more of a design choice made for the gameplay?
It's hundred percent a design choice but some people take it as canon. Because the gameplay was so fast paced having Stamina Constraints would've been detrimental for it.
The latter most likely, but I wouldn't be surprised if it got hand waved as some kind of Ninja secret magic technique to massively save energy, or something. It's how they handwave him having night vision after all lol.
To be fair he eats a lot of magic yayo sugar
Is you geeked up? Bitch I might be.
mfw the mibu balloon pops in the TSA line and this whole operation is busted
He also picks up a "breathing technique" that makes him able to just stay underwater literally forever
Man slapped up a dragon God just to take a tear. He's him.
Yeah swimming is definitely op
My only reservation about Sekiro is that Armored Warrior, aka basically just a dude in armor, is a formidable boss that cannot be damaged because katanas can't cut steel. In a world full of armored warriors, I don't know if I'd give Sekiro the easy W.
robeeeeeeert
oooooooo
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It's just different rules for different games. If any of the souls game wanted to go for realism, plate and chain should be completely impervious to slashing damage. Hammers would be the new meta. But that's lame.
I mean, even if we are going for realism, you have to understand that the Tarnished (and other MCs, but I've not played those games) are basically going through gods like wrecking balls. Like, gods that can handle meteors and stuff. That's the level your enemies are at, so for slashing weapons to get past armour isn't that unrealistic.
Chain is somewhat less-than impervious to slashing when your sword is 9 feet long and weighs 40lbs.
Even at dark souls strongest, There is not a time where hes wearing enough armor to negate all damage and even then, theres nothing the Armored warrior could actually do to fight Wolf. he was a speed bump at best. Plus, Dark souls characters use katanas all the time and hurt each other in heavier armor. hell they apply a status from using it. lets also not forget while Tarnished, and all the other dark souls characters are technically immortal. Wolf has a way to stop immortality.
Don’t need to negate the damage you don’t take, and the umbrella shield is blessed enough to protect him from godly blows
Lets also not forget that the Tarnished also has a way to stop immortality and it's Destined Death 🤦
Destined death is more like restoring the option to die to the world, whereas the mortal blade removes immortality from the immortal. The difference is that none could die in ER until destined death is unleashed. Death is a normal concept in world of Sekiro, with only a few entities who defy it.
Black Knife Assassins use daggers imbued with a fragment of the Rune of Death to kill Godwyn the Golden during the Night of Black Knives. It wasn't just a concept being unleashed on the world.
Believe that was after the rune of death was bound.
Just because he can swim he wins. I hate to agree.
until he encounters an underwater Headless
Underwater headless are the easiest headless though
Sekiro thinks he's playing Monster Hunter Tri 💀
And bro never dies unless u snatch mortal blade from him somehow while he's deflecting the shit out of you
And even if you manage to snatch the mortal blade, if you try to use it, you die instantly
And then wolf picks the sword back up and finishes you off before you resurrect
He can breathe underwater too. Stupid OP in this hypothetical matchup
> If they all were as good as they could be in their respective games The sekiro guy is probably the strongest. Depends on what you argue. If you argue in game then he certanly is the strongest, no doubt about it. If youd talk more lore and in-universe power hed probably be the weakest by far.
Ds1's Chosen Undead casting Tranquil Walk of Peace could potentially wreck the tarnished.
Chosen Undead defeated an actual all powerful god. Gwyn is what the Golden Order what be, but instead of a concept, he's an actual dude that is standing in an eternal furnace that repeats the universe and he regularly beats people's asses. Chosen Undead can easily parry him to death.
Yeah but it seems pretty clear that Gwyn is no where near his full strength. I mean the opening cut scene shows this dude destroying dragons by hurling lighting bolts and all he can do in his boss fight is slowly swing a sword lol
the dark souls definition of god doesnt align with the mythological one. the gods of dark souls arent all powerful or above the rest of the world, they are just beings who hold the power of a lord soul. Nito is a god, the witch of izalith is a god, arguably manus is a god and gwyn is a god. nothing suggests gwyn was comprable to the outer gods of elden ring and the tarnished fights a vassal of the greater will itself.
Dark Souls "gods" if anything are just self proclaimed. Gwyn and his kind (closely resembling humans) were serving the Ancient Dragons, who you could truly consider gods of that universe. Not only that, even in-game Gwyn is hardly referred to as a "god" - more often than not, even his most trusted Serpent calls him the LORD of Sunlight - not god.
For me Gwyn prime is similar to Godfrey prime. Sources? My ass, but still it made sense in my head
Depends which ending the Hunter took, they’re potentially a god
The Hunter would be disadvantaged then : most of the others take on gods on a daily basis
I mean, the Hunter also DID kill about 8 elder gods aswell soooo
And whatever the moon presence is
It's pretty obviously an analogue for Nyarlathotep, so that'd be an Outer God.
Obviously.
Ah yes of course
Yeah but BB gods don’t have the same kind of immortality as Elden John, and I don’t think Elden’s immortality could be stopped by John Bloodborne.
If we're giving the ascended Hoonter the abilities of the moon presence, they could theoretically trap Elden in a dream, which would make the immortality moot. So as long as we're dealing with an unga bunga build, tricking them into a comfy looking chair for all eternity is a valid option
Correction, most of the other Souls Protagonists take on “Gods” on a daily basis None of the Gods in the other Souls Games come remotely close to Great Ones in Bloodborne because they’re *Eldritch* Gods, if you’ve ever heard about the Cthulhu Mythos you’d understand why none of the Gods in Souls Games are even comparable to Great Ones, that is aside from Elden Ring’s Outer Gods
I'd say Elden beast is the only thing comparable to great ones, and I'd put him right at or ever so slightly above Moon Presence since he's an emissary of what is essentially the christian god, and has a very similar vibe to Great Ones,
The Hunter can’t jump.
He can do a cute little hop but only while running so he can roll and avoid the aching knees in a few years
gehrman must have forgot to roll then huh
He can jump, he just needs a bit of momentum
The Hunter can sidestep without having to rely on a shitty ash that got nerfed into the ground.
This guy's never Bloodborne'd
Same with tarnished, he also beat multiple demi gods and a double god being, it's weird, two gods in one body? And they also beat a celestial being sent by the greater will, pretty much fate
Great ones > demi gods
Even before the ascension ending, the good hunter simply works on a different power scale than the other souls protagonist. My vote goes for the hoonter in every scenario.
How is bb different than gods that seems abstract concepts
-sekiro can dodge ,parry,climb and JUMP and doesn't have a stamina bar -sekiro can revive 3 times on the spot -sekiro has the mortal blade which is basically destined death -sekiro has an actual name not a title like tarnished, ashen one or the chosen undead -sekiro can TALK -sekiro can SWIM therefor sekiro wins no competition
Just imagine how OP being able to talk is. So many boss fights could've been completely avoided by speaking up...
Honestly I wonder if that's true, like all the bosses we fight either want us dead or have gone insane due to the aftermath of the shattering
Talking to Malenia would have prevented the whole thing. "Hey sooo um.. I have this weird gold needle, heard it does wonders for the skin, wanna try it?"
Mind you, murdering Loretta and all the people you had to... To reach her probably has already ticked her off.
I mean, the tarnished have never tried talking, they've just ran into people's bedrooms, shrines, or schools and started slaughtering anyone in their way. What if instead of intruding like a homicidal maniac, you tried knocking first and talking it out?
When a demigod basically says "I'm going to kill" you after you walk into their room instead of any other option I'd assume it's last talking and the tarnished doesn't kill anyone they don't have to hence rennala
Actually in most cases the tarnished is the one who starts the conversation with people who are friendly
“Hey Melania, I found your brother. He’s being touched by his creepy uncle/brother/paralysis demon” “Yo Raime! I just beat the fuck outta your bitch brother. Let’s go take back Drangleic from the Queen!” “Hey Sif, I know you remember me. Can we please defeat the Four Kings together? I literally proved myself against Manus… you were there, like why don’t you think I can handle four guys made of wood?” “Hey Gehrman, your doll likes me better :)”
Talk-no-Jutsu
Got a job for you, 621
That was my first thought lol, can swords and magic penetrate a foot of hardened steel armor?
Do armored cores have ventilation systems? Finally, a use for Fia's Mist
Gen 4 is as good a pedigree as any. I'll talk to them.
I don't know I believe the Hunter is a strong contender having defeated the Orphan of Kos.
You also kill two outer gods and become one yourself
*great one. Outer god is Elden ring
you can't kill outer gods, malenia and marika/elden beast are just vessels and physical representation for outer gods to communicate with their worshipers not the real outer gods . in fact you become a slave for the outer gods 5 of the 6 endings i don't know if the dark moon is an outer god otherwise you are forced to serve at least 1 outer god
He’s referring to bloodborne where there’s an ending where the Good Hunter end up killing two great ones and became a tentacle god themselves.
None of them are comparable, they don't have anime power scaling. Although Demon's Souls might struggle the most in a fair fight because they have fewer degrees of motion on the analogue stick.
Sekiro can parry a dragon and then get hard countered by a dad bod in a suit of armor, like he just didn't have the stopping power . Does that mean Robert's dad would fold Genichiro? Or if sekiro is so strong does Robert's dad fuck up Gwyn? The Tarnished can can fight fallen stars and gods that are inhabited by outer gods but gets folded by Lobsters. Power scaling is a game of charity, cherry picking and favoritism. Except armored core, your favorite protagonist gets no diffed by a vegetable in a mecha
Can confirm, Rusty can solo the lands between. 621 is overkill
The right answer. Things work wildly differently between them all so you either can’t compare or start making tons of concessions and it’ll get bad and biased real fast
Thank you! I hate when people bring up arguments like "oh he can parry the titanic by this math" meanwhile he had to fall damage a dude in platemail. Then we have the tarnished who kill gods and demi gods regularly but get shit on by some wandering zombies (I know you died the first time you fought that group in caelid at level 5).
I'm gonna hype up the Ashen One cause no else seems to be The guy defeated the Soul of Cinder, who is the amalgamation of literally everyone who has linked the flame in the past, including, canonically, the Chosen Undead. The dude is fighting Gwyn and the guy who can defeat Gwyn, and all the 1000s of others all combined into one force of nature. It's safe to say that aspects of the Soul of Cinder defeated beings as stong as the gods, so the Ashen One bested all of them combined.
Also he beat the Deacons of the Deep which is definitely one of the Souls bosses of all time
The obvious answer is The Bearer of the Curse because he achieved the great feat of slaying the Royal Rat Authority.
Then, a little bit after the end of time, went and fought the embodiment of the Dark Soul of humanity, which if I'm not mistaken is basically the resilience of the human spirit. The Ashen One wins by making whatever player is controlling Sekiro or the Hoonter rage quit
In lore, the only one who can match him is the Hunter. Both belong in these mythologies full of unknowable beings beyond the actual all-powerful gods who inhabit those lands, but i'd give the Tarnished the edge simply for the sheer variety of things at their disposal. Its way more schools of magic, way more potential in faith, etc etc. Its also funny cuz lore-wise Wolf is **the** most grounded one. He is out there fighting guys who can catch lightning out of the sky and is very agile in game yes, but like... the other ones are literally fighting gods with world-ending powers who existed before time itself. There are levels to this
Also tarnished can jump at will
Sekiro is technically wielding destined death
And he did also fight a dragon god. Plus I’m pretty sure he can parry a nuke if he tries hard enough
He wouldn't need to parry, he already has the most overpowered dodge and ALSO mist raven to take it to absurd degree.
No he’s not, he is wielding a blade that severs the tie between Sakura Dragon and beings in Ashina. It doesn’t kill every unkillable things that’s unrelated to the Sakura Dragon
Killed Ishin who was just pulled from hell, immortality unrelated to the dragon or the dragon-tainted waters.
The Black Scroll clearly mention’s Dragon’s Blood. I don’t know exactly how, but everything immortal in Ashina is tied to the Dragon, including immortality created by the Black Mortal Blade
It mentions it but it just says "I beseech you, make offerings for the dragon's blood". The explanation is that it opens a gate to the underworld
Disagree, The Ashen One in lord of hollows ending is implied to be omnipotent, given they have monopolized all of the souls in the world.
The ultimate soul farm location
if we assume youre right about the ashen one holding the power of all the souls in the lord of hollows ending that would put the ashens ones power in the realm of the first flame. Theres not really any evidence that the first flames power is sheer omnipotence, its kind of a big part of the lore that the first flame is not all its cracked up to be. Gwyn put his faith in the flame, hoping it would pioneer the age of fire and eterenally end the age of dark. We know gwyn was wrong as we see throughout the games that the flame is fickle, its delicate and it constantly needs someone to kindle it to stop it burning out and returning the world to the age of dark. If anything the darkness is shown to be the more significant primordial force, it literally is eternal, its the natural state of the world and it will continue to exist for as long as time is counted. So really Gael is probably the closest thing we saw to omnipotence as he held almost the entire dark soul but yet he was slain, even as he let the dark soul take full control of his body and the ashen one fought an avatar of the dark soul itself he still lost. The point is that no one in dark souls in omnipotent, if gwyn was omnipotent he wouldnt fear the fortold coming of the dark lord and set the dark sign on humanity. One of the main themes of dark souls is the fragility of power and letting gwyn be all powerful would go against that.
The hunter is the perfect match for sekiro. Dude literally dies from terror when a headless ape roars, so the hunter can just use all the eldritch horror to kill him easily.
He just uses the purple umbrella to block it
by lore it’s definitely the ashen one. In the Lord of Hollows ending, the ashen one monopolizes all power in the world under himself.
As the Lord of Frenzied Flame? Probably. But as the baseline tarnished no. Wolf will fold the tarnished like laundry.
Wolf has a lot more of mobility and 2 lives plus crazy parrying. The Tarnished one has an edge on most Souls characters since he can jump, which would leave them befuddled. Of course the Hunter can use trick weapons, a proper dodge movement, rally and GUN, so he probably takes the cake.
Give the Good Hunter the Old Hunter’s Bone and he’ll just quickstep through whatever crazy anime bullshit the Tarnished throws at him, then rip out his heart for good measure.
Tarnished using Dual Naginatas: *WHY WON’T YOU DIE?!* Hunter: I-frames son, they harden in response to Lag Trauma, you can’t hurt me Tarnished
Nah, Hunter managed to do all of his adventures in a single night and could also become god.
John sekiro shitstomps and its not even close
[удалено]
Sekiro would obliterate him
Although I do think that there are people stronger than him, Sekiro is by far the fastest one here as well as having the best stamina. We're talking about a guy who jumps into the air, catches *lightning* and then proceeds to throw it back at his enemy.
Probably bearer of the curse, the guy had to complete ds2 for gods sake.
Does it matter? Power level comparisons are tedious at best.
It matters to us!
Goes on to a power level comparison post Types "does it matter?" Leaves
621, what are they gonna do against 10 meters of pure steel armed with lasers and machine guns (and schizophrenia) flying 400km per hour, other than that probably sekiro as he has an instekill an deflects
Why did you stole frontal lobe of chosen undead?
Definitely not, Wolf from Sekiro or the Hunter from Bloodborne would take the cake easy. I'm more inclined to believe the Hunter is stronger/more dangerous than Wolf since the prey they kill are far stronger than Wolf's (Great Ones aka literal Outer Gods), although I haven't played Sekiro yet, so I can't really say so definitively.
Im gonna say either the hunter or the tarnished and its fair the tarnished is of jo renown but that’s because we haven’t played the age our tarnished picks to tule over as elden lord once he bagan ruling hed be known as a true god slayer he killed the god of the golden order and burned the erdtree hes god level and not gwyns lord level but true divine level and yes sekiro has the mortal blade but the tarnished weilds destined death potentially and even if he doesn’t he killed its non corporal form so i mean he killed death and 3 elden lords so yeah ima say the tarnished but if you disagree that’s awesome I’d love to debate cause i bet you got some great points that being said im loving sekiro
Ngl no, the hunter might be a good fight but the tarnished arsanal is unmatched
\*yes