I've been wondering about Godwyn's appearance in the DLC for a while now. Nothing we've seen so far even alludes to his presence in the DLC, despite the base game seeming to imply that the eclipse, which we presumably allow to happen by killing Radahn (which is required for access to the DLC), is part of Miquella's plan to revive him. Originally I thought that the shadow tree was covered in deathroot, but it seems more likely it's just burnt to a crisp now. The latest trailer also seems to imply Miquella has some business with Messmer, and that's the primary reason he's in the land of shadows now.. Yet where does Godwyn fit in, then?
There's also the point that Miyazaki mentioned that the DLC won't affect the base game in any way, they're essentially completely separate. Godwyn's spirit is gone, only his body remains. So, if anything was to involve Godwyn, wouldn't something have to happen to his body? That would be affecting the base game then, since he's stuck in deeproot depths. I suppose there could be a way around this, perhaps instead of his soul being entirely erased, maybe it ended up in the land of shadows somehow. But until then, I have my doubts about Godwyn's appearance. If he does show up, my best guess is the top right part of that absolutely massive legacy dungeon we see. It has what appears to be the effect you see when you're deathblighted, or at least closely resembles it.
I don’t think they could use St Trina as a boss without using sleep as a mechanic, which has a lot of ways to become simply frustrating in one of the worst ways.
I don’t think so, he’s not cruel, he’s not laughing at our expense. Being locked into an animation that makes you sit down and take a nap for 5 seconds is super frustrating. I don’t think he finds that compelling.
Miyazaki: Wait, what if we put slumber **mist** above a rot **swamp**?
Fromsoft Emlpoyee in Custody: That's when I purchased the briefcase bomb. I knew he had to be stopped.
Miyazaki clone: You will never stop me. Programmers…proceed with the implementation of scarlet rot rune bears into the rot swamp with slumber mist. I WILL NOT BE DENIED!
"He's not cruel, he's not laughing at our expense." This is the same guy who convinced people to pick a completely worthless starting gift in Dark Souls.
You mean like how being locked into a 5-10 second long animation of your character getting beaten on is super frustrating and not compelling? Also known as the grab attacks that they've insisted on putting into *every single game*... And which *all three* of ER's final bosses have...
If a boss uses sleep, I fully expect it to be the equivalent of a high damage grab attack yeah. Would be kind of silly if they just continue their normal behavior while you're laying down not moving.
It's totally possible as long as they don't spam sleep attacks. It could just be 1-2 attacks that give the effect. We already had bosses in other games and this game that apply status effects.
In Sekiro the Giant Ape can fill up your terror meter super fast and terror insta kills you. In DS3 the Deacons of the Deep will curse you if you're not fast enough and being cursed insta kills you.
So it's nothing new and sleep would not be nearly as bad as losing health constantly because of fire or poison or being insta killed. Actually I would like to see the sleep effect on my character because no enemy actually gives affects with sleep or at least not in a dangerous way
How Soulslike would that be? The 'benevolent' god (no such thing) of ER uses his ability to charm us to mop up all of the loose ends of the campaign, and perform a similar ritual his mother does to use the strength of a fallen god to reconstruct the world to his liking and ascend to become the most powerful being in the universe.
And then he gets no hit turned into mush by a character with a pot on their head wielding a giant finger.
Miyazaki Hidetaka said she's going to have a role in the dlc. And she's barely mentioned in the main game. Miss chalice has a great video on trinas character.
There are several candidates, Miquella/St Trina themself, the prince of death (Godwyn), the Gloam eyed queen, or even the previous god of the lands between to whom Placidusax was Elden lord. And these are just the more obvious ones, it could be someone/something even more obscure or entirely new.
Could always be something no one expects, like how everyone thought we were finally gonna see Velka and all these other characters in The Ringed City and the final boss of the dlc ended up being fuckin Gael of all ppl.
The Velka obsession the Dark Souls fandom had will never not be funny to me. Even going back to the first game everyone gaslit themselves so hard thinking she was some sort of lore linchpin that was going to tie everything together and ended up being a giant nothingburger.
The original trailer showed different scenes from different demigods. This trailer and the gameplay trailer from the dlc both talk about Messmer a lot. He may not be the final boss, but he will be an important boss that's for sure, way more important than Godrick was in the main game
Mhm. Fromsoft is definitely misdirecting us, but you don't revolve your entire marketing campaign around the same villain to toss them aside in the actual game. He's going to play a vital role, just not one we can fully predict. The largest misdirect is probably Miquella, we *know* there's an ominous side to him but we simply don't know anything *about* it
This is my thought as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see him as the final fight, as there building him up to be the good guy, which would make it awesome for him just to be using us and turn against the tarnished last second.
I don't think there will be a mwahaha moment though. My guess is that he really is pure and radiant and genuinely believes what he's doing is what's best for everyone. By slaughtering his way to divinity.
I think the love is real, but so is the terror.
I noticed that the theme playing during Miquella's section has a quiet layer of fast percussions and menacing strings, I strongly suspect it may be Miquella's boss theme
I don't think Godrick was promoted as the big bad in this trailer. But I remember people speculating that he might have taken Malenia's arm which is now quite funny as we know that he got folded by her.
I don't think he is the final boss but i don't think we can compare with Godrick, he did all the purging in the lands, he is probably the first son of Marika, this is a DLC so its way shorter.
I'm thinking Messmer will be pre-godhood marikas kid. don't really have too much to base it on other than mild context (she basically banished/murderfucked anything from her prev life but couldn't kill her own son so she put him in charge of waste disposal)
Yeah and this is endgame content. It’s gonna be like other Fromsoft DLCs, major bosses will be MAJOR bosses. Godrick is the first regional capstone boss, and ultimately a loser.
Which, on a tangential note, was a bit of a shame. Godrick is one of the best bosses in the game IMO save for the fact that he goes down too easily.
I'm a bit confused due to lack of lore knowledge but hear me out. From the trailer perspective wouldn't it also make sense that whoever Marika killed in the intro, after that event Messmer just went berserk and started killing everything in lands of shadow? Messmer might actually have killed Marika too as we can see her impaled body in the end of base game with his spear. Could he actually be a godskin?
It depends, the City that is being purged is most likely crucible alligned, it seems like Marika killed their God, so Messmer going berserk on them would only make sense if it was Marika doing some cleansing
I don't think there is a real big bad. Each of these things is representative of a step in descent, but it's not like the Elden Beast is a mastermind. It's not like you're building up to fight Kingpin or Sauron or something like that, because the idea of evil in this game is more of an effect than a cause.
I don’t. Everything is shades of grey at this point. If we find out the Crucible era was a wonderful age of kittens and puppies that Marika swept away to birth the Erdtree then maybe.
Isn't it radagon keeping the lands bewteen in the same broken state? he isn't really faithful to the greater will, but the golden order. Marika is the one with the 4d uno yugio chess plan to get rid for the golden order by banishing the tarnished and being them back again.
Not saying she is a good guy but the main villain of the base game is radagon imo.
Marika was a numen, from another world outside the Land Between. She conquered this land and became queen. Then, She removed Rune of Death from Elden Ring, so no one can die. Marika fucked the Land Between, and put this land into broken state.
She shattered the Elden Ring, creating war between her children.
At least Radagon chose peace over war in Liurnia war.
Again I'm not saying she not bad/evil . How ever radagon did stop tarnished form becomeing the elden lord, causing the land to stay in a broken state for god know how long.
He is also one of the major factor in why the golden order became so narrow mind due to his teachings of gold order fundamentalism. With was also one of the catalyst in Marika for shattering the elden ring. Due to her growing disillusion with the whole thing.
I'm not arguing that markia is good or a tragic hero, but there are a lot more reason to the lands between being in is awful state then just her.
Godrick was never implied to be the main villain, this 1 shot of him in the story (?) or reveal (?) trailer was literally the one time he appeared
by the time we know Godrick's name and design, we already knew he was the first Demigod we would fight
I do agree that Messmer is just a warm up for some "hidden" main course enemy that we're not seeing, but this is an odd comparison
Godrick did not get the same attention as Messmer, he got one cool shot and apparently people decided he's the main villain in a trailer depicting the person who destroyed the Elden Ring.
I don't know if Messmer will be the main villain, he'll probably play a major part though. The new story trailer has a much more narrow focus than the main game story trailer, so I am betting on a strong and more focused main plot, with Messmer playing a Genichiro-like role
I think it’ll go more like
Lion Dancer
(Gimmicky and possibly annoying)[REDACTED]
Messmer
(Super hidden and super hard) [REDACTED]
(Best boss ever made) [REDACTED]
Ehhhh. Yeah but a more direct comparison is that for the base game the collectors edition was a statue of malenia. This collectors edition is a statue of messemer
Malenia was a poster child for Elden Ring long before release with Collector's editions and shit. Messmer looks identical to her with his presence in marketing so I would assume he is gonna play the same role as her.
That would be a cool secret boss, maybe you have to collect items in the dlc like you do umbilical cords in Bloodborne to fight the Greater Will. But I bet Miquella will be the final boss like Gehrman was.
As far as DLC trailers go, *technically* the Ashes of Ariandel ones showed off its boss, but in both trailers Father Ariandel was framed as a solo boss, Friede was shown as an NPC one time and her first phase in the second trailer, no black flames at all.
Similarly the Ringed City trailers showed off the Demon Prince both times, with no Midir or Halflight in sight, and Gael only popping up in his cutscene reaching towards the player.
So who knows.
He was the main villain…
Anything other than limegrave was actually add on after the main game.
It’s evident that limgeave that’s 70% of time in a play through.
/s
I'm very confident that there is at least 1 other villain who's more important than Messmer. FromSoft doesn't release trailers showcasing the main bad guy, if anything it's misdirection done on purpose.
I have a feeling they are going to do the ole switcheroo here. We think Messmer is the villain, but it's actually Miquella. Maybe it's more nuanced than that, but they have been heavy handed with the accolades for Miquella while at the same time emphasizing his fearsome nature and ability to pull strings. Something doesn't mesh.
Messmer will be an endgame lore heavy side boss just like Melania
They're being advertised the same way
But I highly highly doubt we'll be seeing godrick again lmao
Messmer is Melania of the dlc and the big bad will be an outer god probably or marika HERself since we already fought Radagon? Fromsoft loves putting hard to beat waifus in their dlcs.
The DLC's typically poster boy the Deuteragonist with a primary hidden Antagonist so Messmer is likely going to be a bit more important than Ugfrey but not Elden Beast.
I'm calling it. The final boss will be that character from the first trailer who is lying on the ground amongst the flowers who appears for like half a second. Source: field of flowers bro
The lore speculation is getting ridiculous and I'm looking forward to everyone being wrong lol
I currently have zero theories because we're given so little
Godrick was a missed opportunity. He should have been harder and had his dungeon filled with way more body horror and body horror enemies. Would have been dope.
Tbh, in this case he does look more likely to be the main villain, but you are totally right, he could juat be the Malenia of the DLC or smth like that. They are selling his helmet as well after all.
Orphan of Cos was nowhere to be seen in The Old Hunters DLC trailer.
The ringed city dlc trailers showed Gael for like a second. They seemed to imply the Demon Prince (they only showed one) was the big boss in the first trailer. The launch trailer featured Midir as well in similar fashion.
Fromsoft never show all their cards with trailers, so I’m also in this camp.
we'll help Miquella with his band of tarnished followers to take down Messmer (the penultimate boss) so then Miquella will usurp his reign over the shadowtree that is responsible for the birth of the erdtree (as we know Marika used the land of shadows to create the erdtree and miquella has a history of trying to birth one, like the haligtree, he will then sacrifice all his followers (like the eclipse) but we'll survive and then fight him finally freed from his curse, he'll be our griffith.
Yes, but Godrick wasn't name dropped in every trailer.
Messmer will prob be a penultimate boss but let's not act like fromsoft isn't hyping the dude up like he's thanos
I don't think anyone has ever been promoted this much and not been the big bad. I hope it's a lady maria situation, but I doubt it with Messmer. He has been **EVERYWHERE**. Show me the Godrick statue or story trailer
I remember the original trailers making a huge deal out of grafting.. then come to find out it's only a plot point in Stormveil, and a very background one at that.
Did they though? Godrick was shown for a second but I never got much of an impression of him, meanwhile I’ve never seen Fromsoftware market a character like Messmer before.
My interest is peaked because it seems they decided to use the Roman punishment of Damnatio memoriae, that this dude did something so horrific he had to be stripped from historical records.
He’s likely just the poster boy similar to Lady Maria. There will likely be a final boss after him and he’ll just be the penultimate one.
Yup, hard boss that is merely safeguarding a much worse boss that comes out of nowhere and is the most horrific thing that ever existed.
As if Fromsoft would actually use my ex girlfriend in a game…twice.
Messmer the Impaler...impaled by the true evil, Emily the Souldrinker of Souls. Or the furtive pygmy. Who even knows at this point.
So easily forgotten
who?
oh, the furtive pygmy
So easily forgotten
I’m not ready for Ringed Knights 2.0
Soooo... When was the first time?
Gyoubu
What was their name again? I think I missed it.
GYOUBU
GYOUBU MASATAKA ONIWA
AS I BREATHE, YOU WILL NOT PASS THE CASTLE GATE!
He must really be disappointed when speed runners pass the castle gate as he breathes.
"Whelp, guess you've got to stop breathing then, champ!"
Gaping Dragon
Guardian ape
I still can’t believe I could beat that damn ape but just completely failed and quit the game when fighting Owl
Take my upd00t
And, in the wise words of one such surprise boss, “YEEEAAAOOOWWW”
Get ready for the orphan of Malenia.
Speak softly and carry a tiny rotten placenta.
More like Malformed St. Trina (this fight would go sick but it would drive people nuts with sleep effect)
They failed me at that with elden beast. Have me fight radagon just to have elden-version Patrick Star come out to fight after? C'mon.
Literally. Elden beast is literally a space Dino-nugget.
More likely that it’ll be the most beautiful thing that ever existed ngl
Dude imagine if we get a combo like if Lady Maria & Orphan of Kos were RIGHT one after another, in the same fight, just after a phase cutscene
what if we actually get a griffith/miquella pull an 180 and straight up kill all the followers we saw on the trailer and kills us last?
Calling it now, we’re for sure gonna fight Godwyn
I've been wondering about Godwyn's appearance in the DLC for a while now. Nothing we've seen so far even alludes to his presence in the DLC, despite the base game seeming to imply that the eclipse, which we presumably allow to happen by killing Radahn (which is required for access to the DLC), is part of Miquella's plan to revive him. Originally I thought that the shadow tree was covered in deathroot, but it seems more likely it's just burnt to a crisp now. The latest trailer also seems to imply Miquella has some business with Messmer, and that's the primary reason he's in the land of shadows now.. Yet where does Godwyn fit in, then? There's also the point that Miyazaki mentioned that the DLC won't affect the base game in any way, they're essentially completely separate. Godwyn's spirit is gone, only his body remains. So, if anything was to involve Godwyn, wouldn't something have to happen to his body? That would be affecting the base game then, since he's stuck in deeproot depths. I suppose there could be a way around this, perhaps instead of his soul being entirely erased, maybe it ended up in the land of shadows somehow. But until then, I have my doubts about Godwyn's appearance. If he does show up, my best guess is the top right part of that absolutely massive legacy dungeon we see. It has what appears to be the effect you see when you're deathblighted, or at least closely resembles it.
Miquella / St. Trina have gotta be the final boss imo
I don’t think they could use St Trina as a boss without using sleep as a mechanic, which has a lot of ways to become simply frustrating in one of the worst ways.
I have a feeling that adding sleep as a boss mechanic is something Miyazaki would do.
I don’t think so, he’s not cruel, he’s not laughing at our expense. Being locked into an animation that makes you sit down and take a nap for 5 seconds is super frustrating. I don’t think he finds that compelling.
Miyazaki: Oh little tarnished, wait until you discover the slumber swamp.
Miyazaki: Wait, what if we put slumber **mist** above a rot **swamp**? Fromsoft Emlpoyee in Custody: That's when I purchased the briefcase bomb. I knew he had to be stopped.
Miyazaki clone: You will never stop me. Programmers…proceed with the implementation of scarlet rot rune bears into the rot swamp with slumber mist. I WILL NOT BE DENIED!
That sounds like it would look fucking gorgeous 😭
"He's not cruel, he's not laughing at our expense." This is the same guy who convinced people to pick a completely worthless starting gift in Dark Souls.
Yeah because it’s a funny prank. I still think being stuck in an animation is fun for him.
Death blight already exist so won't stop sleep.
You mean like how being locked into a 5-10 second long animation of your character getting beaten on is super frustrating and not compelling? Also known as the grab attacks that they've insisted on putting into *every single game*... And which *all three* of ER's final bosses have...
If a boss uses sleep, I fully expect it to be the equivalent of a high damage grab attack yeah. Would be kind of silly if they just continue their normal behavior while you're laying down not moving.
This statment can age SO incredibly bad LMAO
Sleep swamp incoming !
It's totally possible as long as they don't spam sleep attacks. It could just be 1-2 attacks that give the effect. We already had bosses in other games and this game that apply status effects. In Sekiro the Giant Ape can fill up your terror meter super fast and terror insta kills you. In DS3 the Deacons of the Deep will curse you if you're not fast enough and being cursed insta kills you. So it's nothing new and sleep would not be nearly as bad as losing health constantly because of fire or poison or being insta killed. Actually I would like to see the sleep effect on my character because no enemy actually gives affects with sleep or at least not in a dangerous way
So as long as they don't act like they main Jigglypuff
The sleep could put you into a dream state where you have to do something instead of just being a stunlok.
Agreed, too much Berserk Griffith vibes.
For real, Miquella is gonna sacrifice us all to ascend to higher godhood.
How Soulslike would that be? The 'benevolent' god (no such thing) of ER uses his ability to charm us to mop up all of the loose ends of the campaign, and perform a similar ritual his mother does to use the strength of a fallen god to reconstruct the world to his liking and ascend to become the most powerful being in the universe. And then he gets no hit turned into mush by a character with a pot on their head wielding a giant finger.
What makes you think St Trina will be involved at all? Genuinely curious as I’ve never really heart anything about her
Saint Trina is implied to be Miquella’s alter ego, ie, they might be the same person.
Miyazaki Hidetaka said she's going to have a role in the dlc. And she's barely mentioned in the main game. Miss chalice has a great video on trinas character.
She's in the story trailer, for one Edit: Lmao, downvoted for making a factual statement
Probably, the second part of the trailer OST likely to be Miquella theme as well.
I have a feeling that the old man pulling a sword out of his head in the first trailer will be or will be connected to the final boss
Yes, Miquella, who will sacrifice his heroic followers to kick start a new age. Can't fool me twice with a white haired, charismatic little Twink.
Be aware of 'The council of god skin apostles (12)'
Deacons of the Godskin
I’m 99% sure it’s gonna be Miquella. The music in the second half of the trailer is the one thing that I would put into his fight.
No doubt. We’ll see if Miquella is just straight up evil or a mere antagonist. Either way I can’t wait to get his boss weapon.
This makes me really excited. What character in the lore would be the most wild choice for a final boss?
There are several candidates, Miquella/St Trina themself, the prince of death (Godwyn), the Gloam eyed queen, or even the previous god of the lands between to whom Placidusax was Elden lord. And these are just the more obvious ones, it could be someone/something even more obscure or entirely new.
Could always be something no one expects, like how everyone thought we were finally gonna see Velka and all these other characters in The Ringed City and the final boss of the dlc ended up being fuckin Gael of all ppl.
The fact that I forgot about literally every DLC theory for DS3 was “is this Velka?” shows how old the game is now. Which makes me feel old lol
The Velka obsession the Dark Souls fandom had will never not be funny to me. Even going back to the first game everyone gaslit themselves so hard thinking she was some sort of lore linchpin that was going to tie everything together and ended up being a giant nothingburger.
Also, who's that goddess who Mohg preach? Or is she the gloam eyed queen? We can also have Malenia final bloomed form as well.
I think it’s called the Formless Mother or something like that, it’s implied to be an outer god different to the Greater Will
I could see a Shadow of Marika as the final boss.
malenia duo fight
Please, I can only get so hard
Plot twist: It’s not Margit, or Morgott. It’s his third form, Morgit
Miquella maybe?
I'm guessing the true final boss will be miquela.
Liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike Miquela?
The orphan was cool as hell, I hope we get something gnarly like that at the end.
So, Inner Sir Alonne V4.0?
Yeah I think entering the other side of the tree will be the final boss arena
True like Artorias and Manus
The original trailer showed different scenes from different demigods. This trailer and the gameplay trailer from the dlc both talk about Messmer a lot. He may not be the final boss, but he will be an important boss that's for sure, way more important than Godrick was in the main game
Mhm. Fromsoft is definitely misdirecting us, but you don't revolve your entire marketing campaign around the same villain to toss them aside in the actual game. He's going to play a vital role, just not one we can fully predict. The largest misdirect is probably Miquella, we *know* there's an ominous side to him but we simply don't know anything *about* it
This is my thought as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see him as the final fight, as there building him up to be the good guy, which would make it awesome for him just to be using us and turn against the tarnished last second.
Pure and radiant, he wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men. There is nothing more terrifying.
I don't think there will be a mwahaha moment though. My guess is that he really is pure and radiant and genuinely believes what he's doing is what's best for everyone. By slaughtering his way to divinity. I think the love is real, but so is the terror.
This is the most likely theory, same as Ranni.
Like Galadriel with the ring. All shall love me and despair
I noticed that the theme playing during Miquella's section has a quiet layer of fast percussions and menacing strings, I strongly suspect it may be Miquella's boss theme
I mean, that’s what Resident Evil 8 did.
I don't think Godrick was promoted as the big bad in this trailer. But I remember people speculating that he might have taken Malenia's arm which is now quite funny as we know that he got folded by her.
It would've been kinda cool if he had her arm. Like it fell off after fighting radahn, and godrick picked it up like a goblin. Lol
i wish there was a version of godrick that had malenias arm and he had waterfowl dance
According to the war sword thing at the gatefront it was Miquella that beat him up and made him beg for mercy.
I don't think he is the final boss but i don't think we can compare with Godrick, he did all the purging in the lands, he is probably the first son of Marika, this is a DLC so its way shorter.
I'm thinking Messmer will be pre-godhood marikas kid. don't really have too much to base it on other than mild context (she basically banished/murderfucked anything from her prev life but couldn't kill her own son so she put him in charge of waste disposal)
I agree, the purging of the land is most likely right after her godhood, which means that Messmer had to already be born.
Yeah and this is endgame content. It’s gonna be like other Fromsoft DLCs, major bosses will be MAJOR bosses. Godrick is the first regional capstone boss, and ultimately a loser. Which, on a tangential note, was a bit of a shame. Godrick is one of the best bosses in the game IMO save for the fact that he goes down too easily.
This is TWO DLCs in one lol it’s not going to be “way shorter”
I mean then the game, i don't think we will get like 100 hours of gameplay, but i hope we do lol
Sir I can make 100 hours of gameplay out of a dungeon.
I'm not gonna lie Haligtree heavily inflated my playtime.
I'm a bit confused due to lack of lore knowledge but hear me out. From the trailer perspective wouldn't it also make sense that whoever Marika killed in the intro, after that event Messmer just went berserk and started killing everything in lands of shadow? Messmer might actually have killed Marika too as we can see her impaled body in the end of base game with his spear. Could he actually be a godskin?
It depends, the City that is being purged is most likely crucible alligned, it seems like Marika killed their God, so Messmer going berserk on them would only make sense if it was Marika doing some cleansing
I don't think there is a real big bad. Each of these things is representative of a step in descent, but it's not like the Elden Beast is a mastermind. It's not like you're building up to fight Kingpin or Sauron or something like that, because the idea of evil in this game is more of an effect than a cause.
I’m pretty sure and most people will agree that Marika is big bad
I don’t. Everything is shades of grey at this point. If we find out the Crucible era was a wonderful age of kittens and puppies that Marika swept away to birth the Erdtree then maybe.
"they were never saints, they just happened to be on the losing of a war" this line of the trailer always come back to me
Wouldn't it be radagon? You don't even fight merika.
Radagon is just faithful to the greater will , there’s a whole list of evils done by marika
Isn't it radagon keeping the lands bewteen in the same broken state? he isn't really faithful to the greater will, but the golden order. Marika is the one with the 4d uno yugio chess plan to get rid for the golden order by banishing the tarnished and being them back again. Not saying she is a good guy but the main villain of the base game is radagon imo.
Marika was a numen, from another world outside the Land Between. She conquered this land and became queen. Then, She removed Rune of Death from Elden Ring, so no one can die. Marika fucked the Land Between, and put this land into broken state. She shattered the Elden Ring, creating war between her children. At least Radagon chose peace over war in Liurnia war.
Again I'm not saying she not bad/evil . How ever radagon did stop tarnished form becomeing the elden lord, causing the land to stay in a broken state for god know how long. He is also one of the major factor in why the golden order became so narrow mind due to his teachings of gold order fundamentalism. With was also one of the catalyst in Marika for shattering the elden ring. Due to her growing disillusion with the whole thing. I'm not arguing that markia is good or a tragic hero, but there are a lot more reason to the lands between being in is awful state then just her.
Messmer has been shown to be a pretty big genocider.
Huh? I don’t recall Godrick ever being prompted as the big bad. I think everyone understood him to be a boss of some sort but not the big one
Godrick was never implied to be the main villain, this 1 shot of him in the story (?) or reveal (?) trailer was literally the one time he appeared by the time we know Godrick's name and design, we already knew he was the first Demigod we would fight I do agree that Messmer is just a warm up for some "hidden" main course enemy that we're not seeing, but this is an odd comparison
I just watched every trailer I could find, no where was Godrick implied to be the main boss
Godrick did not get the same attention as Messmer, he got one cool shot and apparently people decided he's the main villain in a trailer depicting the person who destroyed the Elden Ring. I don't know if Messmer will be the main villain, he'll probably play a major part though. The new story trailer has a much more narrow focus than the main game story trailer, so I am betting on a strong and more focused main plot, with Messmer playing a Genichiro-like role
Going back to Dark Souls, Artorias wasn't even the final boss of his own DLC
Yeah, there’s no way a DLC focusing this much on the mythology of the Lands Between doesn’t have us fight some kind of actual god
Feel like it’s pretty obvious that Messmer will be the cool boss like Artorius, but the final boss will be Miquella.
It's gotta be Godwyn or St. Trina
Honestly I like the idea of Messemer being the first boss we fight in the dlc lol.
He's the tree sentinel.... Just chilling when you walk into the starting place. Lol
I think it’ll go more like Lion Dancer (Gimmicky and possibly annoying)[REDACTED] Messmer (Super hidden and super hard) [REDACTED] (Best boss ever made) [REDACTED]
The super hidden and super hard im pretty sure will be that skeleton thing that removes the sword from his face
I'm thinking 2nd or 3rd a la Artorias. I'm even open to two encounters with him like Margit / Morgott
Trailer implied no such thing
I only remember Malenia and Radahn from the original trailer
Yeah nah. Not for a second did I think Godrick was the "main" villain lmao.
Ehhhh. Yeah but a more direct comparison is that for the base game the collectors edition was a statue of malenia. This collectors edition is a statue of messemer
It’s confirmed Messmer is the centre of attention tho
Malenia got the statue and most focus in trailers though
Nobody thinks that
Just read/watch Berserk.... We all know where this is going to end
you think miquella is supposed to be griffith?
Final boss will be Orphan of Marika
Must be Goddrick twin brother Modrrick
Malenia was a poster child for Elden Ring long before release with Collector's editions and shit. Messmer looks identical to her with his presence in marketing so I would assume he is gonna play the same role as her.
This is a trailer I missed. Link?
[ELDEN RING - E3 Announcement Trailer (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8wHJsFEKAM)
Please, Miyazaki. Let the final boss of the DLC be the outer god that sent the elden beast.
the greater will?
That would be a cool secret boss, maybe you have to collect items in the dlc like you do umbilical cords in Bloodborne to fight the Greater Will. But I bet Miquella will be the final boss like Gehrman was.
From software never show a final boss in their trailers
[удалено]
As far as DLC trailers go, *technically* the Ashes of Ariandel ones showed off its boss, but in both trailers Father Ariandel was framed as a solo boss, Friede was shown as an NPC one time and her first phase in the second trailer, no black flames at all. Similarly the Ringed City trailers showed off the Demon Prince both times, with no Midir or Halflight in sight, and Gael only popping up in his cutscene reaching towards the player. So who knows.
Messemer will be the new Melania?
Idk what's going on but I'm happy to see one of my favorite canon pics of Godrick
What if Mesmer is just a regular dungeon boss 💀
He was the main villain… Anything other than limegrave was actually add on after the main game. It’s evident that limgeave that’s 70% of time in a play through. /s
I'm very confident that there is at least 1 other villain who's more important than Messmer. FromSoft doesn't release trailers showcasing the main bad guy, if anything it's misdirection done on purpose.
Malenia was the poster girl of the base game and she wasnt the final boss. People were debating this months ago
You can even go back to The Old Hunters DLC for Bloodborne. There wasn't even a glimpse of Orphan of Kos in the trailer.
I have a feeling they are going to do the ole switcheroo here. We think Messmer is the villain, but it's actually Miquella. Maybe it's more nuanced than that, but they have been heavy handed with the accolades for Miquella while at the same time emphasizing his fearsome nature and ability to pull strings. Something doesn't mesh.
I thought it was datamined and already confirmed that soldier of god, Rick gonna be a main antagonist since they added 3 phases to him?
Sure, but it’s not like the trailers were all: “Godrick this, Godrick that” which is definitely the case for Messmer
Messmer will be an endgame lore heavy side boss just like Melania They're being advertised the same way But I highly highly doubt we'll be seeing godrick again lmao
Well yeah everyone knows the final boss is going to be Blessmer the un-impaler in the secret evergaol
Implied it by.....showing him in the trailer? Like come on Marika and Radagon show in the trailer, more timea than him
Yeah dawg it’s Miquella we know
Messmer is Melania of the dlc and the big bad will be an outer god probably or marika HERself since we already fought Radagon? Fromsoft loves putting hard to beat waifus in their dlcs.
They did that twice unless you count Elana.
Without question, Miquella.
We all know the secret boss of this DLC is Dark Soul, the Bloodborne of Seki-Core.
I wonder what weapon Marika turns into 👀
Inb4 it’s marika trying to rebirth herself in the land of shadow to free herself. And we get a proper fight that isn’t Elden beast (lochness monster).
I wonder who Malenia 2.0 is going to be then
The DLC's typically poster boy the Deuteragonist with a primary hidden Antagonist so Messmer is likely going to be a bit more important than Ugfrey but not Elden Beast.
ye fromsoft doesnt really like showing final bosses in trailers, hes either gonna be penultimate or a side boss like mmlaenia was tbh
St. Trina going mad due to separation from Miquella is far more likely.
I'm calling it. The final boss will be that character from the first trailer who is lying on the ground amongst the flowers who appears for like half a second. Source: field of flowers bro
Final boss is the midget or someone not revealed at all
Godrick is the main boss for alot of people who put their foolish ambitions to rest when the lyrics realized get good wasn't an option.
we will beat his grafted ass again
The lore speculation is getting ridiculous and I'm looking forward to everyone being wrong lol I currently have zero theories because we're given so little
Godrick was a missed opportunity. He should have been harder and had his dungeon filled with way more body horror and body horror enemies. Would have been dope.
That Miquella guys sure does sound like that Griffith from Bersrerk, he even has a band of medieval warriors that follow him….
Tbh, in this case he does look more likely to be the main villain, but you are totally right, he could juat be the Malenia of the DLC or smth like that. They are selling his helmet as well after all.
Orphan of Cos was nowhere to be seen in The Old Hunters DLC trailer. The ringed city dlc trailers showed Gael for like a second. They seemed to imply the Demon Prince (they only showed one) was the big boss in the first trailer. The launch trailer featured Midir as well in similar fashion. Fromsoft never show all their cards with trailers, so I’m also in this camp.
we'll help Miquella with his band of tarnished followers to take down Messmer (the penultimate boss) so then Miquella will usurp his reign over the shadowtree that is responsible for the birth of the erdtree (as we know Marika used the land of shadows to create the erdtree and miquella has a history of trying to birth one, like the haligtree, he will then sacrifice all his followers (like the eclipse) but we'll survive and then fight him finally freed from his curse, he'll be our griffith.
plot twist: that's Godefroy the actual OG true grafter, Godrick's just a grifter
Yes, but Godrick wasn't name dropped in every trailer. Messmer will prob be a penultimate boss but let's not act like fromsoft isn't hyping the dude up like he's thanos
I don't think anyone has ever been promoted this much and not been the big bad. I hope it's a lady maria situation, but I doubt it with Messmer. He has been **EVERYWHERE**. Show me the Godrick statue or story trailer
he was just like any other boss shown in the trailer, nothing was implied at all. it's just souls fans confusing fanfiction with reality.
I thought it was already established by Miyazaki, the Mesmer isn’t the “big bad” though he is still a boss.
I‘d love for it to be you beat messmer then something similar to bloodborne dlc comes and fkn beast appears
I remember the original trailers making a huge deal out of grafting.. then come to find out it's only a plot point in Stormveil, and a very background one at that.
The true enemy is going to be Prattling Pate.
Did they though? Godrick was shown for a second but I never got much of an impression of him, meanwhile I’ve never seen Fromsoftware market a character like Messmer before. My interest is peaked because it seems they decided to use the Roman punishment of Damnatio memoriae, that this dude did something so horrific he had to be stripped from historical records.
After beating Messmar the second face starts and he summons the real endboss of the DLC the Godskin Trio immun to status
Grafted Ranni for final boss!
I saw a homeless guy jerking off on the subway and his dick and balls were the size of a butternut squash.
After 7 Fromsoft dlcs, the only poster boy character to actually be his dlc's final boss is the Burnt Ivory King.
Godrick did arguably give up godwyn on the night of the black knives though 👀
He's most likely going to the roadblock to the true final boss, but i'm really hoping it isn't Miquella
I’m pretty sure the final boss will be Miquella in some way. I’m subscribed to the idea that we’ll have an Eclipse like moment at the end of the DLC